/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/22/#ubuntu-touch.txt

camfloxhelp01:58
snwhyou may want to be more specific, camflox ;)01:59
camfloxok sorry01:59
camfloxlg l5  support ubuntu touch ?02:00
snwhI'm not sure. You could try searching xda-dev02:03
camfloxi found port on 4pda but deleted links (sorry my bad english)02:05
SonikkuAmericaHow are the flo system images coming?02:32
=== _salem is now known as salem_
=== salem_ is now known as _salem
HelloThereHi all04:12
HelloTherefirst time here. Is there anyone here? Any developers?04:13
crocketWill ubuntu phones support B.A.T.M.A.N. or 802.11s mesh network?04:14
HelloTherespeak of the devil04:14
HelloTherecrocket, i just asked a question for same thing (related)04:14
HelloThereno one answered.04:14
HelloThereactually, I had not asked question, but i do mesh networking04:14
HelloTheregetting straight answer to my question is like pulling teeth04:15
HelloTheremy best guess so far is that Ubuntu is doing the same as Android04:17
crocketHelloThere, fuck shit04:17
HelloThere?04:17
crocketFucking mobile phone makers04:17
HelloThereyep04:17
HelloThereit's amazing that they have gotten away with it for so long.04:18
HelloThereI'm sure Verizon is helping in one way or another.04:18
crocketHelloThere, Why don't you make a company that builds mesh network capable smartphones?04:18
HelloTherehmm...interesting idea. :)04:18
crocketFork ubuntu or android.04:18
crocketHelloThere, What about Jolla?04:19
HelloTherei thought about that probably 1,000 times.04:19
HelloTherethey are the same.04:19
HelloTherethey say one thing, do another.04:19
HelloTherewait04:19
HelloTheremy bad, take that back. I did ask Jolla, and Jolla said that there were making a truly, truly open phone.04:20
HelloTherebut they might not be successful. the problem is the telco's in the USA.04:20
RAOFI don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to enable batman on Ubuntu Touch.04:20
HelloThereRAOF, we're listening04:21
RAOFYou'd probably need to rebuild the kernel and the image to enable the batman-adv module, but that's fairly standard.04:21
HelloTherei got something that I need to clear up with Ubunt Touch.04:21
HelloTherethats' what I was about to say.04:21
HelloTherein a nutshell, I do want my 10,000 customers rooting (or anything else) there phones.04:22
HelloThereright now, if I want to give one of my customers a Linux application, they can install it. quick. easy. no problem.04:22
HelloThereI want the same thing for a smartphone.04:22
RAOFClick packages would do that.04:22
HelloThereok.04:22
RAOFBut you can't do that for kernel modules.04:23
HelloTherewhat about user-space models that interface with system-level primitives.04:23
HelloThere*modules04:23
HelloTheremy guess is "no"04:24
RAOFIf you want it in the software centre or app store or whatever it is we're calling it then it'll need the appropriate AppArmour permissions (or a manual review), but it's just userspace code. Go nuts.04:24
HelloThereare you with Ubuntu?04:24
RAOFYeah, but not in this particular area; I work on Mir.04:25
HelloThereoh04:25
HelloThereyou could help me out greatly, then,...04:25
HelloThereby answer question I have had for a year. every time I ask it, I get smoke and mirrors.04:25
HelloThereI'm software engineer.04:25
HelloTherehypothetical situation:04:26
HelloThereI have 10,000 customers.04:26
HelloThereI have Linux application that uses Linux system calls like epoll, timerfd, etc.04:26
HelloThereit's user-space, but it will need to send raw Ethernet frames.04:26
HelloTherenow I have this application on my web site.04:26
HelloTheremy user, who is a doctor, goes to my web site to install it.04:27
HelloTheremy question:04:27
HelloThereWill my customer have grief or not?04:27
RAOFThis depends on how you distribute it.04:27
HelloThereI plan to distribute it from my web site.04:27
RAOFRight, but what exactly are you distributing?04:28
RAOFA single static executable object?04:28
RAOFA tarball containing stuff?04:28
HelloTheremy experience with Linux is limited, btw, but I could do anything to package it.04:28
RAOFA .deb, built for the Ubuntu release your doctor customer is running?04:28
HelloThereit's a binary, and a few data files.04:28
HelloTherewell, that's just it...they are not running Ubuntu now.04:29
HelloThereand if I do not solve this problem, they will not be running Ubuntu. :)04:29
HelloThereit's on Windows now, Windows CE. The port to Ubuntu was only done recently.04:29
HelloThereso we're looking at Ubuntu Touch, scratching our heads, trying to figure out exactly what Canonical means by "native04:30
RAOFWell, IIRC the ‘can send raw Ethernet frames’ is fixed by installing your binary with CAP_SYS_RAW_NETWORK or something.04:30
HelloThereif I write a native app for Windows Mobile, I can do whatever I want to that device, as long as the user authorizes it.04:30
HelloThereso far, for every single smartphone that we have tried (all of them), this is not the case on Linux.04:30
HelloThereUbuntu claims on their web site that they support "true native apps"04:30
HelloTherebut that is meaningless to an engineer without being very specific.04:31
HelloThereI'm trying to be specific. :)04:31
HelloThereso I can package it however.04:31
HelloThereideally, customer would download my package, in whatever form it is in, click something, and it would install.04:31
RAOFI don't know how we plan to handle the “download random package from the internet” usecase.04:31
HelloThereif you will allow me to be frank, there is something I have to get off my chest.04:32
RAOFIt's a real use case, but it's also one fraught with problems.04:32
HelloTherei knew you were going to say that. :)04:32
HelloThereevery company that makes smartphone OS's say that.04:32
RAOFBecause it's obvious to anyone who spends any time thinking about it :)04:32
HelloThere"We do it to protect the customer."04:32
HelloThereactually, I think there is a different angle.04:33
RAOFWell, Android can sideload reasonably easily; AFAIK you can do whatever you want there.04:33
HelloTherenope.04:33
HelloThereBasically, Apple opened a lot of eyes with its app store.04:34
HelloThereMicrosoft, etc. saw all the $$$ that was being made with the wall-garden model.04:34
HelloThereand as we know, if I write an app for iOS, cannot port it..I become bound to Apple.04:34
HelloThereand I have to sell through Apple's store.04:35
HelloThereGoogle is doing the same thing with Android.04:35
=== vying is now known as Guest44575
HelloThereTizen is trying hard to do the same thing.04:35
HelloThereand a few others.04:35
HelloThereAnd then there is Canonical.04:35
HelloTherebasically, the steps are:04:35
HelloThere1. announce a new "OS" (usually based on Linux).04:35
HelloThere2. claim that it is free, open-source, etc..yada...04:35
HelloThere3. create a semi-prorietary API that, if you want to show anything to the user, you have to use that API04:36
HelloThere4. create an App Store04:36
HelloThere5. create an environment where, if you do not use the App Store, you suffer as a developer04:36
HelloThere6. charge a % of of sales on the App Store04:36
HelloThereit's standard technique these days04:36
RAOFAh, well, I think you'll find that 5. is actually “An App Store is really really useful”04:37
HelloThereYes...it is..but04:37
RAOFSo ‘if I don't use the App Store, I miss out on really really useful’ isn't something that can be fixed?04:37
HelloThereWhen developers start scratching their heads saying, "Ok,, I get the app store thing...but I don't get it..why do I have to pay you a fee to sell my app to my customer on my customer's phone..."04:37
HelloTherewell...04:38
HelloThereI think it can be fixed.04:38
HelloThereI think that Canonical should allow 3rd-party developers to create apps.04:38
HelloThereand be able to sell those apps without going to the app store.04:38
HelloTheredespite the utility of the app store.04:38
HelloTherei also think that Canonical should give the user a choice about installing software.04:39
HelloTherei ride motorcycle at 150 mph.04:39
HelloThereit could easily kill me.04:39
HelloTherebut when I bought it, the dealer who sold it to me did not put a rev limiter on it.04:39
HelloTherei get one warning04:39
HelloTherethis machine can kill you04:39
HelloTherethen I get the keys04:39
HelloThereI think smartphones should be that way too04:39
HelloThereright now it is not04:39
HelloTherethe user should have the option of installing whatever software s/he wants04:40
HelloThereyou should warn him/her, but the decision of whether to install the software should lie with the user04:40
HelloTherethat is the true meaning of open04:40
HelloThereopen source is useless if the result is that most users cannot get the experience they want without some really heavy lifting04:41
HelloTherewhat do you think?04:41
HelloTheredo you think a user should be allowed to decide for himself/herself whether to install software outside the sandbox?04:41
RAOFYes, but Android allows that (as, presumably, will Touch)04:42
HelloThereactually, it does not.04:42
HelloTheremy app will run on any Linux distro in the world.04:42
HelloThereall of them.04:42
RAOFIn what way does it not?04:42
HelloThereif a user tries to put my app on Android device, no go.04:43
HelloThereit's a native C++ app.04:43
HelloThereportable in fact. runs fine on Windows.04:43
HelloTherebut it will not sideload on Android.04:43
HelloThereAndroid pushes Java.04:43
RAOFWhy not?04:43
RAOFAndroid has allowed C++ for a couple of years, at least.04:43
HelloTherethere is a standard linux function call - epoll04:43
HelloThereif I am not mistaken, I cannot use it on Android.04:44
HelloTheresee..that's the game with words that Google plays with Android04:44
HelloTherethey say, "Android supports native C++"04:44
HelloTherebut people in-the-know, know that that is not quite what it seems04:44
HelloThereyes, you can compile C++ code.04:44
HelloTherelike letting someone drive a Ferrarri.04:45
HelloThere"I'll let you drive my Ferrarri."04:45
HelloTherewhen you get to the test drive site...04:45
HelloThereget into the car04:45
HelloTherein the garage.04:45
HelloThereyes, you're driving a Ferrarri, but you are confined to a garage.04:45
HelloThereright?04:45
HelloThereI mean, that's C++ on Android.04:45
HelloThereit's C++, in a garage.04:45
HelloThereif you try to do anything other than twiddle your C++ thumbs, you cannot.04:46
HelloThereit's sandboxed.04:46
HelloThereand not only that, you still need Java, because, in fact, it is a Java program.04:46
HelloTherethat runs your C++04:47
HelloThereand forget about doing anything low-level.04:47
HelloThereyou can't.04:47
HelloTherewanna do some WiFi mesh stuff?04:47
HelloThereforget it04:47
HelloThereto do that, you need to talk to WiFi drivers.04:47
HelloThereAndroid won't let you.04:47
HelloTherethey keep your C++ code in a box so tight, you might as well be programming in Java.04:48
HelloThereso getting back to Ubuntu...04:48
HelloThereI hope you guys do different.04:48
RAOFIf you want to be in the store your code will be sandboxed.04:48
HelloThereI figured. That's fine.04:49
HelloThereSo you already know my next question.04:49
HelloTherewhat happens if there is code that is ~not~ in the store.04:49
HelloThereyou guys going to sandbox that too?04:49
RAOFIt's not sandboxed now; you can (if you enable writable-/) apt-get anything you like from the main Ubuntu archives.04:50
HelloTherei read something about that this evening.04:50
HelloThereso you're saying, right now, if my customer enables writeable, they can install any "normal" desktop application?04:51
RAOFYup.04:51
RAOFThey won't work, obviously, because we don't run an X server.04:51
HelloThereoh sure.04:51
RAOFBut if they're console-only, sure.04:52
HelloThereok, forgive me..my Linux is much weaker than my Windows..04:52
HelloThereso if I have a normal, native consolve C++ application that invokes epoll(), that interface with madwifi or whatever WiFI driver is in the system, that should work ?04:52
HelloTherei'm trying to envision the process.04:53
HelloThereI have the native C++ application on my web site.04:53
HelloTherea doctor is sitting in her office, at my web site, looking at my application.04:53
HelloThereshe decides to download and install it.04:54
HelloTherewhat's the process?04:54
HelloThereyou said that I could apt-get anything from Ubuntu repository04:55
HelloTheremy app is not in Ubuntu repository04:55
RAOFWell, they could download a .deb file and dpkg --install it.04:56
RAOFBut I don't know what process, if any, we intend for out-of-store app installs.04:56
HelloThereso my doctor is looking at her phone04:56
HelloTherei'm trying to envision what she would do04:56
HelloThereconsole interface, etc.04:57
HelloTherei am worried about your out-of-store installs04:57
HelloThereGoogle has everyone fooled by side-loading.04:57
HelloTherethey say that you can sideload apps, but they are Java apps04:57
HelloThereno C++ apps.04:57
HelloTherethey tell you that you can code in C++, but it's not the same as having access to native API of Linux04:58
RAOFWell, you can.04:58
HelloTherereally?04:58
HelloThereI'm not convinced.04:58
RAOFBut the APIs you're requesting are privileged.04:58
RAOFYou need SYS_CAP_something_or_other, or root, in order to use them.04:58
HelloTherewell..yes and no. epoll is not a priv...04:58
RAOFThat's quite true.04:58
RAOFOh.04:58
HelloTherei don't want any of my doctors rooting their phones.04:59
HelloThereand it is true that some of the api surface is privilege, like raw eithernet.04:59
RAOFOh. You might be running into bionic limitations.04:59
HelloThere*ethernet04:59
HelloThereyea04:59
RAOFPresumably bionic doesn't implement the epoll wrapper; you could totally use epoll, but you'd need to call the appropriate ioctl().05:00
HelloTherei've talked to other developers. the feeling is unanimous. Android, for native C++ developers, is a nightmare.05:00
HelloTherewhat I want is same access that I have on Linux desktop.05:01
HelloTherehonestly, I think Canonical, Tizen...etc. are all treading dangerous ground.05:02
HelloThereimagine what will happen when one of Chinese manufacturers breaks rank.05:02
HelloThereputs out smartphone that has true no-non-sense Linux on it (with X)05:03
HelloThereand throws it out there.05:03
HelloThereviruses be damned.05:03
HelloTherethen you have situation.05:03
HelloThereyou have Microsoft/PC 1983 situation.05:03
HelloThereon smartphones.05:03
HelloThereprogrammers would write code in any language they saw fit, do what they want.05:03
HelloThereit only takes a single OEM to break ranks.05:04
HelloThereand huge #'s of developers will follow them.05:04
HelloTherecreate a different kind of app store.05:04
HelloTherewhere user can download and install whatever, at their own discretion.05:04
BeldarHelloThere, This is support not your soapbox.05:04
HelloThereok..so..i would like to know...05:05
HelloThereif my customer installs my application05:05
HelloThereon an Ubuntu Touch phone...05:05
HelloTherefrom my web site...05:05
HelloThereif your OS will restrict my application from accessing the normal API that I can expect on Ubuntu Linux05:05
HelloThereincluding the ability to send raw Ethernet frames (since I can do that on Ubuntu desktop)05:05
HelloTherethat's my question05:06
HelloTherewithout rooting her phone05:06
HelloThereand if so, what is the process05:06
RAOF(1) Your app can send raw Ethernet frames on the desktop because the desktop comes pre-rooted.05:07
HelloThereright now, I can write a program on the Ubuntu 12.8 (or whatever) that I have running that will send05:07
RAOF(2) As I've said, I don't know what the plan is.05:07
HelloTherebut right now, today, the answer is "no", right?05:07
HelloTherejust trying to get the facts05:08
RAOFAs of today, the answer is “yes, as long as they're prepared to drop into the terminal app”05:10
RAOFAnd enable writable-/05:10
HelloThereahhhh!!!05:11
HelloThereI forgot that.05:11
HelloThereso that's the answer to my 2nd question. what is the mechanism05:11
HelloTherethere is a terminal app. very cool.05:11
HelloTherehow much work is it to enable writeable?05:12
NerdKellyHi. Trying to install touch on my N7 using guide from ubuntu.com but stuck at step4. When running ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel --bootstrap it says command not found05:20
cjohnstonNerdKelly: have you installed the correct packages?05:21
NerdKellyafaik, according to the instruction listed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install05:22
NerdKellysudo apt-get install phablet-tools android-tools-adb android-tools-fastboot05:22
NerdKellyno mention of ubuntu-device-flash05:23
NerdKellyi added the ppa too05:23
HelloThereSo I got answer to 1 of my 2 questions. it is possible to side-load true native C++ applications that bind to the Linux kernel, but only if device is enable for write by going to terminal app. the actual steps involved are not specified. And at this point, it is not certain how much access Canonical will allow.05:24
HelloTherethx.05:24
NerdKellyany ideas anyone?05:30
cjohnstonNerdKelly: try phablet-flash05:30
cjohnstonIt looks like something is missing for being able to install using ubuntu-device-flash05:30
NerdKellyyeah, phablet-flash is available05:31
NerdKellyif thats the case the instructions need a bit of a revision05:32
cjohnstonNerdKelly: it was just updated to be ubuntu-device-flash, so I'm guessing that something was omitted05:33
cjohnstonI'm emailing the person who made the changes now05:33
cjohnstonbut being that its the weekend, might be Monday until there are changes05:33
NerdKellynow worries. I've just searched apt repo for ubuntu-device-flash and looks like i've found the package05:35
cjohnstonwhat's missing?05:36
=== vying is now known as Guest95745
NerdKellylooks like just ubuntu-device-flash05:37
NerdKellydoing ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel --bootstrap now...05:38
NerdKellynot sure if its doing anything mind as no visual feedback or anything as yet...05:41
crockethel06:12
crockethell06:12
=== v6sa is now known as lauri
=== vying is now known as Guest3176
NerdKellycjohnston cool. Seems to be installing now :)07:15
FuLgOrE_hi. anybody here with a N10?08:52
FuLgOrE_I need some config-files08:52
xpltA little help with the emulator, please?10:39
=== karni-away is now known as karni
xplthttp://pastebin.com/YSv5sixk <--- That's what I see in the Qt Creator when I try to create a new instance of the emulator and then run it. After login prompt, emulator's process start sleeping and it's window still doesn't render anything except device's frame10:43
popeyxplt: it takes a while10:52
popeyafter you get the frame come up, wait ~5-10 mins10:52
xpltWell, I waited for an hour yesterday and nothing happened :-/ And looks like it's the same thing today10:53
xpltThe only difference I see it's that emulator occasionally "refreshes" it's window during loading by restoring it to black10:56
xpltwow, nevermind10:59
xpltFinally!10:59
xpltpopey: and thanks! :)10:59
xpltYes! It really works! :D11:00
popey11:04
popeythe x86 one is way faster11:04
popeybut not integrated yet11:04
FuLgOrE_anybody here with a N10? I need some config files11:28
Saviqogra_, re: silos, AFAIK that's why locks are being put on trunks, that only one silo can with a package can be active at the same time, looks like it's not the case with direct uploads?12:01
ogra_Saviq, right, we need some kind of dependency system for silos too imho12:02
ogra_given that 60% of our packages in the image dont really come from trunk branches12:03
Saviqindeed12:03
ogra_Saviq, do you know if rsalveti tested the lightdm flo issue against a normal archive ?12:04
ogra_when i tested it here it didnt cause any issues12:04
Saviqogra_, no, I only read about it this morning when it was already fixed, apparently12:04
ogra_i wonder whats different in the demo image that it seems to need more time to provide the env for lightdm12:04
* ogra_ wnts his 2 seconds boot time back ! 12:05
ogra_:)12:05
Saviq:D12:06
timppaogra_: 2 second boot time would be rather nice :)12:33
timppabtw, regarding the alarm clock. I've done some more testing and it only seems to work once12:33
WillHi all12:34
philippehi12:34
=== Will is now known as Guest81050
timppaPhone needs to rebooted after one succesful alarm12:34
=== philippe is now known as Guest878
timppa+ the timezone issue.12:35
Sulan_Hi all, I hv just installed the ubuntu-sdk but i can't see the ubuntu tmpl in the new project wizard, any ideas?12:40
timppais ntp enabled on the ubuntu touch, clock seems to run late compared to all other machines/phones I have which are synchronized12:41
nik90timppa: Are you running #200?12:42
timppayes12:42
nik90timppa: I am still on #194, I will test #200 when it gets promoted with the alarms...seems weird that it doesn't ring twice12:43
nik90timppa: the timezone has been confirmed by other people as well12:43
uvhello12:44
timppanik90: it seems that once the alarm has been working and you create a new alarm it does not recognize it. No indicator icon, no alarm12:45
timppaIf I boot the phone it works again but only once. Weird...12:45
timppaUm, and no, I tried four times in a row and the fourth time the indicator did come12:47
timppaIt also seems that when the phone is locked the time on lockscreen and in the indicator bar does not update at all12:50
timppathat's why I thought the clock is running late12:50
dmanuelalonsoalguien habla español?12:51
nik90timppa: the clock time in the indicator itself is not part of the clock-app..12:52
timppaok12:52
nik90timppa: however all I can do for now is wait until the image promotion12:52
timppanik90: That's just fine, I just wish I could help in any way to get things running smooth12:53
nik90timppa: keep reporting bugs :) and I will take care of the rest12:53
timppanik90: sure12:54
Julien67Hi ! are there french ?13:20
ogra_timppa, 2 second less ... not 2 sec boot time :P13:37
FuLgOrE_hi all. I repeat my question. anybody here who has UT on the N10?13:50
=== everbrew_ is now known as everbrew
=== jasoncwarner___ is now known as jasoncwarner__
=== yofel is now known as Guest6792
Dalvikinwere can i find ubuntu version for my droid?18:19
Dalvikinor some rom that works18:19
Dalvikinthe thing isnt booting anymore18:19
Dalvikinis there a build your self rom page?18:21
Dalvikinlike slackware18:21
Dalvikinlike suse has18:21
Dalvikinyou just selected your hardware and add the apps and stuff and the page would build it for you ti download and install18:22
Dalvikininstead of making one rom for every one and each device18:23
Dalvikinlinux works on most everywhere with out any major problems18:23
DalvikinIS ANYONE IN HERE?18:24
Dalvikinhttps://susestudio.com this for android18:25
ogra_no, there is no such thing for ubuntu18:30
ogra_(and it wouldnt help anyway, since thats not how android works, you need to port it first)18:31
ogra_!devices | Dalvikin18:31
ogra_hmm, no bot ...18:32
Dalvikingoogle should make that stuff18:32
ogra_Dalvikin, see : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices if there is an image for your device, if not, : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Porting has porting instructions18:32
Dalvikinbut theyr no good corsairs18:32
ogra_why would google care18:32
Dalvikinbecause its theyr resposability18:33
ogra_the only offer the source, manufacturers take it, modify it and release their devices with the modified binaries18:33
Dalvikinif they dont care someone should make them care18:33
Dalvikinthey based it on GPL18:34
ogra_you need to make the manufacturers care ... nnot google18:34
Dalvikinyou have to give back the changes you made18:34
ogra_you dont18:34
ogra_you have to publish them18:34
Dalvikinits open source18:34
Dalvikindamn google18:35
ogra_as i said, not googles fault18:35
Dalvikintheyr a spyware companie18:35
ogra_i'm soure they would happily integrate code that they get from manufacturers18:35
Dalvikinwould they?18:35
ogra_but manufacturers have no interest in sending it to them18:36
Dalvikinthey take open source and get away with it18:36
Dalvikindamn theifs18:36
ogra_so you have an android where the common bits are the same .... but device specific bits are in the hands of the handset manufacturer18:36
ogra_thiefs ?18:36
ogra_you dont seem to understand what opensource sw is18:37
Dalvikinthey stoled linux from the comunity18:37
* ogra_ shakes his head18:37
Dalvikinthats really low18:37
Dalvikinat least apple gives back18:37
ogra_nobody stole linux ... it is provided to you for exactly that18:37
ogra_the only obligation the GPL puts on you is that you need to make your changes public18:38
Dalvikinit made for you to missed use and abuse18:38
Dalvikinand make tons of money at other expenses18:38
ogra_sure18:38
ogra_linus wasnt forced to pick the GPL ...18:39
ogra_that license allows all this18:39
Dalvikinand not giving back as its discribed on GPL18:39
ogra_there is no word in the GPL that forces you to "give back"18:39
ogra_it only forces you to make your changes publically available18:39
Dalvikinthere is you need to back port all the changes18:39
ogra_which manufacturers usually do18:39
Dalvikinso why is it so dificult to find rom18:40
Dalvikinits as closed as you get18:40
Dalvikinthats talk is just BS18:40
ogra_you usually get the kernel source from manufacturers ...18:41
Dalvikinother wise there would be a page like suse studio18:41
ogra_no18:41
DalvikinYES18:41
ogra_susestudio relies on the fact that there is some standard18:41
Dalvikinthe standard is android18:42
ogra_there is no standard that a manufacturer needs to use a certain version of the kernel for example18:42
* genii makes more coffee and slides a large mug down to ogra_18:42
ogra_haha18:42
ogra_thanks :)18:42
Dalvikinyou can use other version of kernel too or even build your own18:42
geniiogra_: Any time, of course!18:43
ogra_Dalvikin, so why are there devices with the same android version but with a 3.0 kernel ... and others with 3.2 and even different ones with 3.518:43
Dalvikinso how comes is so dificult?18:43
ogra_and all of these are full of hacks from the manufacturers18:43
Dalvikinjust like linux18:43
Dalvikinwhats your point with that?18:43
ogra_(google for "BSP kernel")18:43
ogra_they are incompatible18:43
ogra_there is no standard18:43
Dalvikinlinux and windows are imcompatible and i can run both on my pc18:44
Dalvikinso FUCK OFF18:44
ogra_calm your language please18:44
Dalvikinyou have no grounds18:44
ogra_except reality you mean18:44
ogra_:)18:44
Dalvikinyou are a lier18:44
ogra_why do you think suse doesnt offer thier service for android builds then ?18:45
Dalvikinyes reality if fucked up18:45
Dalvikinspecially hwen it involves thiefing crops18:45
ogra_in some aspects i fully agree :)18:45
Dalvikincorps18:45
ogra_there is no stealing going on here ...18:45
Dalvikinwere can i get rom for my arsweare18:46
Dalvikinhardware18:46
Dalvikinsure ther isnt18:46
DalvikinBS18:46
ogra_if you put a bucket with potatoes in front of your house and put a sign on them "for free" ... is the guy taking a potao a thief ?18:46
Dalvikinthis isnt about laws18:46
Dalvikinits about justice18:47
Dalvikinyou dumb fuck18:47
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
popeyDalvikin: pack that in18:50
axisysI don't see toshiba thrive at 105 / antares is listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices .. any suggestion how to install ubuntu-touch in toshiba thrive tablet?18:52
axisysmy laptop is ubuntu18:52
ograaxisys, search xda forums, with luck there is an image ... if not, your only chance is the porting guide18:52
axisysI have adb18:52
ogra(porting is not trivial though)18:53
Dalvikini bet there lots of difrent devices that use the same hardware18:56
Dalvikinand they make it harder that it is on pourpose18:56
Dalvikinmaking one rom for every divice is just retarded and it agains linux policy to include everything and the kitchen sink18:58
ogragot a link to that policy ?18:58
Dalvikinthats why linux is a monolithic kernel18:59
ograerm18:59
Dalvikindont try to be funny with me18:59
ograbut you know what "monolithic kernel" means, right ?18:59
ogra(note, linux isnt one)18:59
Dalvikinlinux has all drivers included18:59
Dalvikinat least thats the policy18:59
popeyogra: #202 will have update manager back, right? tomorrow's image19:00
ograyes19:00
Dalvikingoogle retards are just U turning linux19:00
ograpopey, i would have built a new one but the tests were still running19:00
popeynice one, thanks for sorting that on the weeknd19:01
popey+e19:01
* ogra hands Dalvikin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolithic_kernel for reading 19:01
Dalvikinlol19:01
ograpopey, np ... but i really think we need to sork on the silo process19:01
ogra*work19:01
Dalvikindont RTFM me19:01
popeyYeah, I didn't realise it was a problem19:02
Dalvikinthts for people with no life19:02
ograDalvikin, well, then stop making false claims19:02
Dalvikinyou are the fake19:02
ograpopey, yeah, i had to jump through several hoops to actually do that rollback19:02
Dalvikindont fake facts19:02
Dalvikinit doesnt suits you19:02
popeyDalvikin: enough.19:02
Dalvikinor does it19:02
popeyDalvikin: we're here to help and discuss not atack eachother19:03
Dalvikinban me and you just lost19:03
popeyits not a game.19:03
ograwe tend to do work here ... and help people, usually without swearing at each other ...19:04
=== Tassadar__ is now known as Tassadar
Dalvikinkeep doing it your dumb way instead of realizing you need one size fits all rom for driods19:06
ograwell, we are not android ...19:07
ograand we suffer the same as you do from how fragmented it is19:07
Dalvikini said driods as in hardware19:07
ogra(since we use a very small piece of it)19:07
Dalvikinthats why i didnt say android19:07
ograyou mean robots ?19:08
Dalvikindroids19:08
Dalvikintake it up with google i didnt amed the things19:08
Dalvikinnamed19:08
Dalvikinstop playing dumbass19:08
cwaynethat's enough19:09
Dalvikinyour just making excuses not to help me19:10
popeyhow can we help you if you have a bricked random device?19:10
ograyou didnt even ask for help yet19:10
popeyand then abuse us and expect help.19:10
Dalvikinits a mali 40019:10
Dalvikina919:10
Dalvikinit was running kerneol 2.xxx19:11
ograso what is your issue exactly with what device (and please dont say droid)19:11
Dalvikinstorex19:11
popeyThe fact that they make a "Looney Tunes Tab" says a lot.19:11
ogracan it run andrid 4.x ?19:11
Dalvikini think is like this ones MIA Q8 Allwinner A13 7"19:11
DalvikinCPU: 1.0Ghz CortexA819:11
DalvikinGPU: MALI 40019:11
DalvikinRAM: 512mb DDR319:11
Dalvikinits something like this one19:12
ogra1GHz single core and 512M wont fly with ubuntu19:12
Dalvikini bet they6 got build at the same factory19:12
ogracan it run android 4.x ?19:12
Dalvikinit was running slogish as hell with 4.2219:13
ograi can imagine19:13
ograubuntu wouldnt run better on such hardware19:13
Dalvikini dont think that rom was any good19:13
Dalvikinmine has 720 ram19:13
=== Guest6792 is now known as yofel
ogracortex A8 is a single core SoC ... you wont have much fun trying to run something that does multitaking19:14
ogra*multitasking19:14
Dalvikinhttp://storex.fr/produits/STOREX-ezee_tab707.html19:15
Dalvikinmust be this one19:15
Dalvikinthats what it says on the caseing19:15
Dalvikinwere can i find the rom for it?19:16
ograno idea ... there is definitely no Ubuntu port for it (and as i said, it wouldnt be fun to run Ubuntu on such hardware)19:17
=== punto_ is now known as punto
Dalvikinthats some help19:18
ograyou can check on the xda forums, probably you find something there ... they often have custom roms for exotic devices19:19
ograbut i would stick with android if i was you19:19
ogra(if you can get the source for the android rom you could indeed attempt a port ... see the porting guide in the channel topic, but the HW is to low powered imho)19:20
geniiDalvikin: http://www.techknow.me/forum/index.php?topic=6993.0 post number 519:20
Dalvikinalready found that page genii19:20
Dalvikinis that legit?19:21
Dalvikinmy have virus19:21
Dalvikinis it virus free?19:21
ograhow would we know :)19:22
ogra(or anyone else apart from the guy who did the rom)19:22
Dalvikinsounds like fun19:23
Dalvikinso i just stick the file in the card?19:26
Dalvikinand chose to flash from the menu options?19:26
ogramost likely ... i rarely actually use android19:26
ogra(ubunut for phones works slightly different)19:27
ogra*ubuntu19:27
axisysogra: found this and trying now19:43
ogragood luck19:43
axisysogra: http://www.thriveforums.org/forum/pio_masaki-development/18090-wip-ubuntu-touch-thrive-development.html19:43
axisyshe seems to be the only one did ubuntu-touch for thrive19:44
axisysif it fails, may be I will look into porting19:44
=== a_muva is now known as 14WAB7YCF
=== IdleOne is now known as Guest87974
=== Guest87974 is now known as io
=== io is now known as Guest52137
=== fmasi is now known as Guest3949
=== Guest52137 is now known as io
=== Zic is now known as Guest13886
=== IdleOne- is now known as IdleOne
Dalvikinwill ubuntu toutch run on other devices other then the ones they are going to sell?20:28
=== fmasi is now known as Guest53513
popeyDalvikin: yes20:31
=== rpadovani is now known as WebbyIT
vthompsonmhall119, popey, is there still time to try to get the Music app a bit more tablet friendly prior to MWC?21:26
Dalvikincant install cyanogen using the windows app because the screen is black21:28
Dalvikini cant press ok21:28
douglso I got a nexus 10... never been so unimpressed by electronics in my life - what a disappointment...21:30
Dalvikinthere are worst powered phones that work great21:32
Dalvikinstop selling stuff21:32
Dalvikinhow do i fix my droid whats ABP?21:36
Dalvikinshould i use that?21:37
DalvikinADB21:37
popeyhey vthompson, possibly, the tricky part will be finding someone who can upload the new music app to the store tbh22:02
=== yorick_ is now known as yorick
popeyvthompson: we can certainly provide a click package to the guys doing the demo and they can choose to update the devices manually22:10
popeyvthompson: I'm happy to help test over the next day or so on n7 and n4 if that helps22:11
cwaynepopey, hey, does the new reminders show the converged layout on flo?22:12
popeyshould do22:12
cwayneshould yes22:13
popeyyes22:13
cwaynemine didnt though, was making sure i have the right version22:13
cwaynethanks, ill double check22:14
popeycwayne: lemme get my n7 and check22:14
popeycwayne: yup, looks good here22:15
cwayneok22:15
vthompsonpopey, cool, we'll see if we can put together some fixes. Do you know if things look good on a n10? Or is it just the n7 that has some issues?22:15
cwaynemaybe its cus i didnt have an acct signed in yet22:15
popeyvthompson: i only have an n722:16
popeycwayne: do you have an n10?22:16
popeyvthompson: cwayne is the main guy making the builds for mwc22:16
cwaynepopey, yeah, but im about to board a plane22:16
popeycwayne: vthompson is the lead music app dev22:16
cwayneim happy to check it out when i land22:16
cwayneor if you've got a click now i can try it on the flight22:16
popeyheh, no not now22:16
popeyfor later22:16
vthompsoncwayne, ok. If you guys do choose to showcase certain apps... might it be a possibility you just showcase the music app on n10 (if it looks good) and the n4?22:17
popeyvthompson: pretty sure I tested music on n10 and it was fine.22:17
popeythe n7 has a restricted height compared to n1022:17
popeyvthompson: yeah, thats easier22:17
vthompsonpopey, cwayne, cool. Might try to do some work with popey to get n7 looking nice, but that might not happen.22:19
popeyvthompson: tbh we had some pain with other apps too, its not limited to music22:19
vthompsonpopey, I can imagine. The form factor is a bit tighter than I think most apps assumed22:19
popeyyeah22:20
popeyits a bizarre form-factor22:20
vthompsonActually, popey, could you verify this bug for me: https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/127617022:22
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1276170 in Ubuntu Music App "On the desktop and phone, the first item in the Now Playing queue is partially off the screen" [Medium,Triaged]22:22
vthompsonpopey, originally it seemed like it only occurred on 13.10 and was something fixed in the SDK... but now I see it on my device.22:23
popeysure, one mo22:23
popey  vthompson confirmed22:27
vthompsonpopey, ok, cool, I'm not crazy then22:28
popeyhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/128305122:28
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1283051 in Ubuntu Music App "When playing cover art can disappear off screen" [Undecided,Confirmed]22:28
popeyi filed that the other day, probably a dupe22:28
* popey marks dupe22:29
xnox_cjwatson: can you please sanity check bug #1283574 for me?22:29
ubot5bug 1283574 in packagekit (Ubuntu) "packagekit-backend-aptcc is present on touch images" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128357422:30
xnox_cjwatson: i've assigned it to you for now.22:30
vthompsonpopey, ok cool. I assumed that bug was due to exactly what Andrew had said... the odd n7 size making the bottomMargin larger than needed22:30
vthompsonpopey, I think the issue shown in the video is probably something different and is something needing to be addressed for the n7 form factor22:31
vthompsonso maybe not fully a dupe22:31
popeyrelated I suspect22:31
vthompsonWell, i know that the fix I have for https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/1276170 will not fix what you saw in the video. I think the app as a whole needs to have better support for screens with such short heights (in grid units)22:32
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1276170 in Ubuntu Music App "On the desktop and phone, the first item in the Now Playing queue is partially off the screen" [Medium,Triaged]22:32
vthompsonI think you have 3 bugs filed that fall under this category22:34
vthompson1283051, 1282775, and 128277422:34
xnox_popey: is zeitgeist actually used in unity8 at all  / on ubuntu touch images?22:42
popeyxnox_: it is installed, yes22:43
popeyhttp://paste.ubuntu.com/6978812/22:43
popeyno idea if it's used by unity22:43
xnox_popey: i know why is it installed.22:44
xnox_popey: i want to know if it is actually explicitely seeded.22:45
xnox_(or needed)22:45
popeypass22:45
xnox_popey: who is responsible for "ofono" ?22:47
popeyawe22:47
xnox_thanks.22:47
popeynp22:47
douglso is ubuntu touch an addition as in it runs or the android ui or can ubuntu run on my nexus 10?23:02
xnox_dougl: no, ubuntu touch is completly stand-alone operating system. one cannot run any android ui, nor any android apps on it.23:03
xnox_dougl: default installation, wipes all your android OS and all of your android data.23:03
douglxnox_, but not ready for prime time?23:04
xnox_dougl: there is experimental dual-boot option available for some devices, but then you need to reboot between the two. and neither have full disk space.23:04
xnox_dougl: we had 1.0 release in 13.10 (November 2013) and it's fully operational.23:04
xnox_dougl: and we have 16 carriers and 2 hardware manufacturers to ship it pre-installed soon.23:05
xnox_dougl: and it's available on off-the-shelve hardware right now (e.g. nexus 10)23:05
douglxnox_, well my nexus...23:05
xnox_nexus 4 and a few others.23:05
douglxnox_, what do I read to get ubuntu on my nexus 10 - thanks for the info23:06
xnox_dougl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install is a good starting page (and related pages linked from it)23:07
douglxnox_, thanks :)23:07
=== Guest13886 is now known as Zic
T10NAZI have a problem getting ubuntu touch to boot, so far all i did to get the cm base to build was commenting ril in boardconfig.mk added qcom media-caf, did all the kernel configs, and added vendor/htc to the main.mk. It sits at the splash screen and cant get adb to get up. Is there any other way to see what is causing to not boot?23:30
ograxnox_, i'm pretty sure all of the dash search uses zeitgeist providers23:35
ogra(might be pretty bad if searching doesnt work during MWC when demoing)23:35
ograxnox_, i would try removing it manually from an install and do some searches to make sure it doesnt break anything before changing anything in that area23:39
ograanyway, image build is kicked23:39
* ogra is off23:39
xnox_ogra: you are building demo out of the archive?!23:48
xnox_ogra: and you didn't freeze image number yet?!23:48
ograxnox_, no, but there will be drive-by flashing for visitors23:49
ograwhich will be the official, not the demo image23:49
xnox_ogra: ok.23:49
ograand we dont have any AP tests that would catch broken search23:49
ograso pleaase test if it still works ... i seem to remember that someone told me the ddash search is all zeitgeist based (though i dont see any dep)23:50
xnox_ogra: so i've changed upstart-app-launch to depend on zeitgeist-core instead of zeitgeist.23:50
xnox_ogra: the zeitgeist-core is the actually deamon/logger, where as zeitgeist is a metapackage which depends on -core, python2, gtk3 and X.23:51
xnox_ogra: so i believe in qt5 world of things nothing should change.23:51
ograyes, i just saw the uplaod (after i typed the above)23:51
xnox_ogra: but will test it further, with your new information.23:51
ograi doubt they will flash any -proposed image and we wont promote anything from the weekend before monday morning anyway23:52
ograso should be safe so ffar23:52
xnox_ok.23:52
xnox_ogra: can i see lists of in-progress silos anywhere?23:54
ograxnox_, https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuDk72Lpx8U5dFlCc1VzeVZzWmdBZS11WERjdVc3dmc&usp=sharing#gid=2523:55

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!