[00:00] <hamitron> my main worry would be someone will phone me
[00:00] <hamitron> ;)
[00:01] <diddledan> yeah, I don't get why roaming data is so cripplingly expensive
[00:02] <shauno> people don't phone me.  they know better.  my phone lives on silent.  and silent-silent, not "bzzzzzzt" silent
[00:03] <maps|wrk> lol yea they have talked about stopping roaming charges in the eu though..although not sure when it takes effect?
[00:03] <maps|wrk> also iirc 3 dont charge for roaming in a number of countries..not all eu , but some ajnd i think some other places like aus too
[00:03] <maps|wrk> but yea i got like 40 quid of charges from using my 3g in Holland when we were in the red light district..for about 20mins and i made a call at the airport
[00:03] <hamitron> why not just disable data?
[00:04] <maps|wrk> you can do yea
[00:04] <diddledan> if you can't use 3g in a red light district, when can ya?!
[00:04] <maps|wrk> my mate was using 3g all the time..dunno if he had some kinda plan but when we got lost he was using google maps with the voice to direct us LOL
[00:04] <diddledan> I mean. instagram!
[00:04] <maps|wrk> anyone ever used google maps l;ike a sat nav with the voice  really good..the little . follows you and th directions worked well
[00:04] <hamitron> :))
[00:05]  * hamitron uses nokia maps
[00:05] <hamitron> ;)
[00:05] <diddledan> eww
[00:05] <diddledan> formally known as ovi
[00:05] <hamitron> no data = good
[00:05] <hamitron> ;/
[00:05] <diddledan> and before that something else iirc
[00:06] <shauno> data roaming should be capped now, but the current cap is 45 cents / mbyte, which still racks up quick enough
[00:06] <hamitron> how do maps work in an area with no signal then?
[00:06] <hamitron> if you are downloading stuff
[00:06] <maps|wrk> works really well i was surprised..tried google maps v a sat nav when we went to the imax..and google maps was more response..go off it's proposed route it recalcs pretty quickly
[00:07] <maps|wrk> i was surprised how good it was
[00:07] <maps|wrk> ah not sure hamitron  i had full signal and 3g which explains why it worked so well...when you say no signall.no signal AT ALL?
[00:07] <diddledan> gmaps requires data connection for the recalculation stuff though
[00:07] <hamitron> none at all
[00:07] <hamitron> :/
[00:07] <maps|wrk> yea
[00:07] <maps|wrk> surely it also requires data to be able to know where you are..when that blue dot was moving about as we were
[00:08] <diddledan> no, gps doesn't require data connection
[00:08] <shauno> don't most phones still do agps?
[00:08] <hamitron> a-gps is the one that does iirc
[00:08] <diddledan> agps?
[00:09] <shauno> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS
[00:09] <maps|wrk> isnt that still some kind of connection diddledan  if we had no signal at all would that still work?!
[00:09] <hamitron> I use gps with a-gps as backup
[00:10] <hamitron> only bad thing.... battery life
[00:10] <hamitron> :/
[00:11] <hamitron> I better get sleep
[00:11] <maps|wrk> so if i was abroad diddledan  i could use maps? and get directions with my 3g and data roaming off>
[00:11] <diddledan> maps|wrk: if you'd previously downloaded all the data required, yes
[00:12] <maps|wrk> ]aha
[00:12] <maps|wrk> is it possible to download maps for an entire country on gmaps i wonder
[00:12] <diddledan> maps|wrk: usually means the mapping info for the desired route and the graphics
[00:12] <hamitron> so nokia maps wins? ;)
[00:13] <hamitron> nn o/
[00:13] <maps|wrk> why does it win!
[00:13] <maps|wrk> :)
[00:13] <hamitron> well, I have all roads installed for the UK
[00:14] <shauno> just cache the maps before you go; https://support.google.com/gmm/answer/2650377?hl=en
[00:15] <diddledan> how much data does a whole country require for gmaps cache?
[00:18] <shauno> I'm not sure it'll let you try :p
[00:19] <maps|wrk> ah so it might not be possible?
[00:20] <maps|wrk> could i cache all the maps on the iphone for czech republic?
[00:21] <shauno> heh, no, it's not in the iphone version
[00:22] <maps|wrk> damn
[00:22] <maps|wrk> so you can on droid?
[00:23] <shauno> it seems so, by what's in that link
[00:24] <shauno> although it says it'll let you keep 6 maps, and then each map is a 'region or city'; but doesn't tell you how big a region can be
[00:27] <shauno> that said, google maps on the iphone is so bad that I really can't figure out why every dogs on apple's one
[00:30] <maps|wrk> hmm really
[00:30] <maps|wrk> whats so bad about google maps on the iphone? i honestly thought its fine - whats better about andreoid version-ive never tried it
[00:31] <diddledan> shauno: I think part of the problem is probably because apple forced any usage of googles mapping service to automatically be handled by apple's instead - so google need to bypass that for a start
[00:31] <shauno> I haven't tried the android version either
[00:31] <shauno> but still like .. shake to send feedback.  this function was apparently implemented by someone who discovered the motion API, but had never used a phone
[00:32] <diddledan> o_O
[00:32] <diddledan> shake to send feedback?!
[00:32] <diddledan> srsly?
[00:32] <shauno> yup
[00:33] <hamitron> so if a girl goes for a wild ride and shout "oh yes", what happens?
[00:33] <maps|wrk> hmm thing is apples maps was inaccurate and if you remember it looked odd when they made it 3d and stuff
[00:33] <shauno> I also like that you can save a location, and store your home & work locations
[00:33] <shauno> but you can't save a location as your home or work.  so I can't actually enter my work location because it doesn't have a street address
[00:34] <diddledan> off the books? ;-)
[00:34] <diddledan> NOC-style?
[00:34] <maps|wrk> cant store as home or work?
[00:34] <shauno> it just doesn't have a street/building number
[00:34] <maps|wrk> why
[00:34] <maps|wrk> it makes home/work have to have an address?
[00:35] <shauno> I mean the 'save location' is unconnected to the home/work locations.  so I can't drop a pin here and mark is as home
[00:36] <maps|wrk> :(
[00:36] <maps|wrk> im still wondering why you think google maps on iphone sucks its great - just a bit of a bummer that i cant  cache maps to it
[00:37] <hamitron> "just".... tomtom's had that feature from the start ;/
[00:37] <shauno> the maps are great.  the application is terrible
[00:42] <maps|wrk> what about openstreetmap
[00:54] <maps|wrk> anyone use openstreetmap
[00:55] <popey> ya
[00:56] <maps|wrk> work well?
[00:57] <popey> i like it
[01:01] <ali1234> is it possible for an X window to be fully transparent and also... still exist?
[01:01] <ali1234> ie receive input
[01:02] <ali1234> or looking at the problem another way, is it possible to make the resize handles bigger than the window frame without involving the compositor to make those parts of the window transparent?
[01:27] <neuro> waiting for dinner to be delivered at half one in the morning sucks
[01:32] <daftykins> neuro: lol, pizza?
[01:33] <neuro> smoked sausage supper :)
[01:33] <daftykins> D:
[01:36] <maps|wrk> dominos?
[01:36] <maps|wrk> hey neuro  thanks for yesterday that fixed sudo
[04:35] <diddledan> contempt really needs to fix his internets
[05:07] <mapps> yo
[05:07] <mapps> yes he does diddledan
[05:07] <mapps> :)
[05:26] <mapps> and he's gone again poor thing
[05:29] <shauno> morning
[05:30] <mapps> morning shauno
[07:27] <shauno> I wonder if I'm bored enough to try upgrading my router while I'm not home
[09:02] <xalyy> Hello
[09:04] <xalyy> Is somebody know about RAID?
[09:10] <popey> Morning!
[09:35] <foobarry> morning
[09:37] <popey> think today is lego movie day for me and sam
[09:41] <foobarry> whats it about?
[09:42] <popey> dunno
[09:42] <DJones> I bet  there's a disaster that lego people save the world from
[09:42] <popey> its one giant advert for lego
[09:42] <popey> yeah, sounds about right
[09:43] <DJones> Thats the plot of about 50% of films
[09:43] <DJones> Replacing lego people with real people/aliens/robots
[09:44] <foobarry> http://fundraiser.pitivi.org/
[09:44] <DJones> Reading the description, it sounds like the plot has come from a Mario Bros game
[09:47] <foobarry> i can never keep up with which one is the non crashy one
[09:47] <popey> kdenlive
[09:48] <popey> i was staggered how stable it was last week when I had to use it intensively for a promo video
[09:48] <popey> openshot crashed on pretty much every click
[09:49] <foobarry> is it easy to use?
[09:49] <popey> kdenlive?
[09:49] <foobarry> pitivi looks nice
[09:49] <foobarry> yep
[09:49] <popey> i figured it out
[09:49] <popey> and it didnt take long at all
[09:49] <popey> i only had to look up a tutorial a couple of times
[09:50] <foobarry> only one allows import form a firewire source i think
[09:50] <foobarry> i think its a k* one
[09:50] <popey> kino
[09:50] <popey> i would import with that and then move to kdenlive for edits
[09:58] <foobarry> oh look , another one...https://code.google.com/p/flowblade/
[09:59] <foobarry> pitivi looks closer to openshot in ease of use
[10:02] <popey> ease of use is no good if it crashes on every click
[10:02] <popey> or can't actually render out your project without crashing
[10:11] <foobarry> agree
[10:12] <foobarry> often wonder what setup the devs are using
[10:13] <foobarry> if they think their s/w doesn't crash
[10:15] <foobarry> ok. so i received some smut spam. i binned it, but now g+ is suggesting i add "her".
[10:17] <foobarry> reported as spam instead, wonder if it makes a diff.
[10:19] <popey> i report people on G+ and they tend to disappear, so I guess once they get a few people doing it, it does
[10:34] <xalyy> How can I test write speed of DISK?
[10:35] <popey> disk utility?
[10:35] <xalyy> Yes
[10:36] <popey> oh, it's called "Disks" now
[10:36] <popey> it has a benchmark tool
[10:37] <xalyy> DD?
[10:37] <popey> no, "disks"
[10:37] <xalyy> apt-get install disks ? :D
[10:39] <popey> its pre-installed on ubuntu
[10:44] <xalyy> no command found
[10:45] <popey> xalyy: server or desktop?
[10:45] <xalyy> server
[10:45] <popey> ah, disks is a desktop thing
[10:46] <xalyy> Ohh
[11:01] <foobarry> hdparm on a server
[11:02] <foobarry> hdparm -t and -T <devicename>
[11:04] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[11:11] <popey> oh, just found the pitivi fundraiser
[12:13] <xalyy> Can anyone help me about RAID?
[12:13] <xalyy> Or software raid?
[12:25] <penguin42> what's up with it?
[12:52] <xalyy> How can I install it
[12:52] <xalyy> or use it
[12:52] <penguin42> just checking, are you trying to use a RAID on a motherboard that has software raid (in which case you want dmraid) or one that doesn't have anything (in which case you want mdraid)
[12:57] <popey> \o/ btrfs
[12:57] <popey> xalyy: can you be more specific
[12:58] <xalyy> Okay
[12:58] <xalyy> I not really know my dedicated have hardware raid
[12:58] <xalyy> How can i check?
[12:58] <daftykins> describe your setup
[12:58] <daftykins> is it a desktop PC?
[12:58] <daftykins> from a brand name, or custom built, etc?
[12:59] <penguin42> actually, if you don't know, probably best to use mdadm (or btr if popey can talk you through it)
[12:59] <popey> so this is a remote server and you want to know if it has raid support xalyy ?
[13:00] <popey> xalyy: you could ask the provider?
[13:00] <xalyy> dedicated server
[13:00] <xalyy> I said :P
[13:01] <xalyy> Actaully its a Dell C6100
[13:01] <daftykins> you're not really going to be able to reconfigure the storage remotely then
[13:02] <daftykins> unless it has spare unused disks
[13:03] <xalyy> Why?
[13:03] <popey> well, you can if you have serial console access
[13:03] <popey> did you request RAID setup when you had the dedicated server provisioned?
[13:05] <xalyy> No :S
[13:05] <popey> so chances are 99.9% that it isnt setup for raid then
[13:06] <xalyy> Yeah probably
[13:06] <xalyy> So I have to request the provider to setup hardware raid?
[13:06] <popey> yes
[13:07] <xalyy> And what is the best setup for 10-13 VM's?
[13:07] <xalyy> on the dedicated
[13:07] <popey> depends what you want to achive
[13:07] <daftykins> and the # of disks
[13:07] <xalyy> well wan't to achive to run all vps's without any problem :P
[13:07] <xalyy> Because I am having problem atm
[13:08] <xalyy> They are lagging and I think its because the I/O
[13:08] <popey> what problem?
[13:08] <daftykins> today's public PC fail comes from Guernsey Airport - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ck1txsb78g9qrs5/IMG_20140222_100516.jpg
[13:08] <xalyy> Not sure
[13:08] <popey> what application are they running?
[13:09] <xalyy> CPU user app
[13:09] <popey> wut?
[13:13] <popey> it might be easier for us to help if you're slightly less vague
[13:15] <popey> MooDoo: you registered ubuntu.technology ‽
[13:15] <MooDoo> popey: yes
[13:15] <MooDoo> I've already submitted a trademark request to the relavent people
[13:15] <MooDoo> I'm just waiting for the forms to sign etc
[13:16] <popey> you know we don't use the multi-colour logo anymore?
[13:16] <MooDoo> I do now, so I'll change it :D
[13:21] <MooDoo> thank you
[13:22] <daftykins> brown, brown and brown?
[13:28] <calju16> hey all, how's it going?
[13:29] <daftykins> afty \o
[13:29] <daftykins> not bad ty, yourself?
[13:30] <calju16> fair to middlin' cheers. just trying out IRC for the first time, lol!
[13:30] <popey> ☻
[13:30] <popey> welcome
[13:30] <calju16> :)
[13:31] <MooDoo> yay irc
[13:32] <daftykins> run while you still can!
[13:32] <calju16> lol. well I've been scrolling through the ubuntu forums for a while now and thought I'd try and figure out how to get on the irc channel. Looks like I made it XD
[13:32] <DJones> Once you get dragged in, you'll never leave
[13:32] <MooDoo> calju16: mwahahahahahah you're in trouble now ;)
[13:33] <calju16> Oh MooDoo? how so?
[13:33] <MooDoo> calju16: i'm just teasing as DJones once you're been here awhile you'll never leave :)
[13:33]  * daftykins begins chanting "one of us... one of us..."
[13:34] <MooDoo> but in all seriousnes, welcome calju16 :)
[13:34] <calju16> aaaah. cheers!
[13:35] <daftykins> popey: the sun's out, so Mischief must sun herself! https://www.dropbox.com/s/jytxtn51i5ojtsi/IMG_20140222_122418.jpg
[13:35] <DJones> calju16: You'll never want to leave, I was trying to think of something to compare it to, and then realised you gave me a clue, as the 1980's tv programme said "Cheers (Where everybody knows your name)"
[13:36]  * daftykins has a Cheers t-shirt bought from one of the Boston sites
[13:36] <calju16> So, this is where it all goes wrong then?
[13:37] <daftykins> yup!
[13:37] <popey> daftykins: awwwwww
[13:37] <DJones> yep, but just blame MooDoo
[13:37] <daftykins> and people come in sometimes to ask for assistance picking up the pieces
[13:37] <MooDoo> yay me o/
[13:37] <daftykins> rarely, ever so rarely, they speak English so we can help 8D
[13:37] <DJones> !cookie | MooDoo
[13:37] <lubotu3`> MooDoo: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!
[13:38] <MooDoo> awww shucks you guys
[13:38] <daftykins> he's blushing!
[13:38] <MooDoo> wow my son won't shut up about the lego movie
[13:38] <daftykins> haha, did you just go today?
[13:39] <MooDoo> no wife took him a few days ago, he's still going on about it lol
[13:39] <MooDoo> DJones: is there a cookie score that'll help me get ubuntu membership?  there should be ;)
[13:41] <DJones> MooDoo: You could apply for membership through the IRC Council for sustained contributions through IRC
[13:41] <MooDoo> DJones: yes that's one plan :D
[13:42] <calju16> I'm sorry, ubuntu membership? i thought it was all open source!
[13:42] <MooDoo> calju16: it is :)
[13:42] <calju16> then what do you have to be a member for?
[13:42] <MooDoo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership have a look at this :)
[13:43] <MooDoo> calju16: you don't at all, it's just something you can do if you want too :)
[13:43] <MooDoo> It gives you a few extra things you can do in the ubuntu community
[13:43] <calju16> aah, right.
[13:43] <calju16> best saved for people who know what they're doing then?
[13:43] <MooDoo> voting rights for council nominations, ubuntu cloak, planet ubuntu syndications etc
[13:44] <DJones> calju16: Its a recognition of a long term contribution to the Ubuntu ecosystem, whether as a developer, helping to support users on the forums, IRC etc, helping with Ubuntu advertising & spreading the word etc
[13:44] <MooDoo> calju16: not necassarily, a noticable contribution is all you need :D
[13:46] <MooDoo> calju16: abusing davmor2 and czajkowski helps get you noticed too ;) lol
[13:47] <daftykins> i prefer to inflict myself upon IRC types as an unknown
[13:47] <daftykins> but then - LOOK AT THAT CERTIFICATE
[13:47] <daftykins> ;)
[13:48] <MooDoo> daftykins: lol
[13:48]  * popey wanders off to see the Lego Movie with Sam.
[13:48] <MooDoo> take care popey have fun
[13:49] <calju16> lol, ok. to be honest, I'm still just trying to figure Ubuntu out! XD
[13:49] <MooDoo> you're in the right place :D
[13:49] <daftykins> ah we all are to some extent
[13:50] <calju16> okies then, in that case. What exactly is SSH? I've heard  that it's something to do with telnet, so presumably it has something to do with remoting onto a device?
[13:51] <DJones> !ssh
[13:51] <lubotu3`> SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
[13:52] <MooDoo> Simply put it's a way of getting into a linux server via the command line :D
[13:52] <calju16> right, okies.
[13:52] <MooDoo> calju16: I'm connected to my linux server via ssh, then i'm running a command line irc client called irssi
[13:52] <daftykins> i'm on a Windows laptop right now SSH'd into a Linux computer where my IRC client runs
[13:52] <daftykins> which is also irssi!
[13:52] <MooDoo> irssi o/
[13:52]  * daftykins high-fives MooDoo 
[13:53] <daftykins> \o :D
[13:53] <DJones> MooDoo: Stop typing what I'm, thinking and typing a lot slower
[13:53]  * DJones removes the ,
[13:53] <DJones> +1 for irssi
[13:53] <calju16> it's just I've been pondering a project for a while and ssh has been proposed as a way to remote onto a home server while I'm away at my student digs.
[13:54] <daftykins> definitely
[13:54] <DJones> I'd agree with that
[13:54] <daftykins> you'll need to do a couple of things for that
[13:54] <calju16> would remoting to a home server allow me to get round things like download restrictions?
[13:55] <daftykins> 1) Likely your home IP address on the internet constantly changes, so you will likely want to sign up to a "dynamic DNS" service to give you something to connect to. noip.com is good
[13:55] <MooDoo> but then again you'd need to decide why you want to ssh into a server when you can just run xchat on your machine?
[13:55] <daftykins> it would yes
[13:55] <daftykins> when i was at Uni i remoted home to download things then SCP/FTP'd them to Uni
[13:56] <MooDoo> ooo cunning
[13:56] <daftykins> 2) you'll obviously need a computer running a Linux to connect to, with openssh-server installed
[13:56] <DJones> Heh, that also means the people at home would get the cease & desist notices instead of you
[13:56] <daftykins> 3) You'll need to forward a port on your router to let you connect in
[13:57] <daftykins> and finally 4) You'd be best using a non-standard port to prevent naughty thieves trying to break in (the standard port is 22)
[13:57] <calju16> isn't 4) why you'd set a community name/password though?
[13:57] <DJones> I'd add a number 5) set a fixed ip on the server at home in case of accidental reboot & change of ip
[13:58] <daftykins> DJones: but 1 takes care of that :D
[13:58] <daftykins> community?
[13:58] <daftykins> can't say i'm familiar with that
[13:59] <DJones> daftykins: Wouldn't 1 just deal with the external internet ip address, I'm thinking more if the server reboots it may get a different internal ip from the router which the router wouldn't be forwarded to the server
[13:59] <DJones> s/forwarded/forwarding/
[13:59] <daftykins> oh sorry i thought you meant external IP
[14:00] <daftykins> yep static addressing is a must
[14:00] <calju16> why wouldn't you just set the server to use the last useable as a static IP?
[14:00] <daftykins> because such things don't really tend to persist across router reboots
[14:01] <daftykins> when it comes to networking, it tends to be best to force things to be a certain way rather than put them in a configuration you hope will work
[14:01] <daftykins> i've seen a lot of people ignore my static addressing advice and go with DHCP leases on their routers instead
[14:01] <DJones> Potentially, a server could have an ip, get disconnected and when it reboots, it may get a differnt ip address or the original ip address could have been taken by somebodies mobile phone/tablet/laptop when it got switched on
[14:02] <calju16> ah, ok. I thought if you set them to static IPs though, (and in the case of routers, wrote to flash) that they would keep that IP until you set them to dynamic?
[14:02] <daftykins> and often you don't want to phone up the parents or whomever and try to get them to help diagnose XD
[14:03] <daftykins> well a router itself will always have a static IP yep, a computer would need to be configured so though
[14:03] <DJones> I think some routers let you specify a specific MAC address to a specific ip address
[14:03] <daftykins> *nod*
[14:03] <daftykins> i've seen that go wrong, heh
[14:05] <daftykins> calju16: do you have particular use-cases of what you'd run back at home in mind?
[14:05] <DJones> Everybody learns by experience, you try something, it works for a while, then goes wrong & you go back through things till it works, then comes the magic moment when you suddenly realise that you've just done something first time & it worked straight off
[14:07] <daftykins> then you become family IT man
[14:08] <shauno> don't become the family IT man.  the pay is lousy.
[14:08] <daftykins> *nod*
[14:09] <jussi> yeah, not only do you get nothing monetary, you have people complaining at you all the time!
[14:10] <calju16> well, I'd like to have  a media/file server that I could log into and have access to films and the like from any device in my home LAN.
[14:10] <daftykins> i had a phone call from mother dearest asking how to copy someone's facebook message the other day
[14:10] <DJones> Plus, 9 times out 10 they use an operating system you don't use
[14:10] <shauno> heh, exact.  "you know you were messing with the printer last week?  now the microwave doesn't work, and we assume it's related"
 select it with the mouse...
[14:10] <calju16> I'd also want to be able to remotely connect to it from my digs.
[14:11] <daftykins> calju16: yep that's all pretty straightforward
[14:11] <daftykins> do you have an old PC you intend to set this up with?
[14:11] <calju16> yes. yes I do :D
[14:11] <daftykins> 8D
[14:11] <daftykins> and can it live somewhere with a wired connection to your home router perhaps?
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> \o/ run-parts
[14:12] <jussi> Ive an old ide based NAS, sadly ide drives are slow and dont go very large...
[14:12] <jussi> (if anyone wants one...)
[14:12] <MartijnVdS> IDE, as in PATA?
[14:13] <daftykins> i like to call it PATA too
[14:13] <daftykins> :D
[14:13] <jussi> link to pdf "datasheet" http://download.level1.com/level1/datasheet/FNS-1000.pdf
[14:13] <calju16> It could do. I may need to have a word or two with parent before they'd let me do it, but I couldn't see any real problem with it.
[14:13] <MartijnVdS> jussi: "Loading..."
[14:14] <daftykins> calju16: noise and power consumption tend to be the main parental gripes in my experience :D
[14:14] <shauno> (rPi!)
[14:14] <daftykins> might be tough to get decent storage on one though?
[14:15] <calju16> well, I'm going to be giving the case a good clean out and rigging a new fan/power supply to it so there shouldn't be too much noise.
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: pi + hub + 2TB USB disk = Pi with decent storage ;)
[14:15] <calju16> right, anyway - I need to get some eats. cheers for the advice folks!
[14:15] <daftykins> would that be painful over samba though? i've heard they struggle a bit
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> calju16: there are special low-noise power supplies and cases, but they tend to cost a bit more :|
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> calju16: good luck! :)
[14:15] <jussi> MartijnVdS: mind, you can add storage via USB to that NAS
[14:15] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: yes, their CPU isn't super
[14:16] <MartijnVdS> jussi: USB1, or what ;)
[14:16] <jussi> MartijnVdS: I guess... :P
[14:16] <daftykins> 1.1 now, be fair ;)
[14:16] <jussi> wait
[14:16] <jussi> its is USB 2!!
[14:17] <MartijnVdS> If you ever need to run a directory full of scripts, run-parts
[14:48] <shauno> I think I'm missing something .. I thought you could buy handsets from the 'play' store thing?
[14:50] <MartijnVdS> shauno: only in some countries
[14:50] <shauno> ah, okay
[14:54] <jussi> I wonder when Ill finally learn to set openerp up... it takes me forever. every. single. time.
[14:54] <jussi> seems iM forgetting something...
[14:59] <jussi> anyone here now about amazon aws stuff?  iv set the thign up, and can ssh in, but if I ping the server I ge no response... :/
[15:00] <shauno> I believe that's normal
[15:00] <shauno> you have to set the security groups for it, the default is to restrict everything
[15:02] <jussi> shauno: ahhh you are exactly right, thanks. rookie mistake
[15:03] <shauno> don't tell me that, I've enough of an ego already :)
[15:03] <jussi> shauno: hehe
[15:03] <jussi> well, it works now :D
[15:09] <shauno> okay, android-type-people .. I'm confused.  how's the language support on android?  am I right in reading it still varies by handset?
[15:10] <jussi> shauno: actually I thought itwas pretty good - at least on the 3 handsets I own, Finnish is present and very well supported
[15:11] <shauno> a friend's trying to buy a moto-G, but everything we can find for slovak language support is people trying to root it to add languages .. which sounds a bit backasswards?
[15:12] <jussi> weird...
[15:27]  * foobarry_ has been doing man things
[15:27] <foobarry> replacing the locks on the shed
[15:28] <foobarry> tired now
[16:59] <foobarry> !ping
[17:08] <shauno> pong¡
[17:11] <foobarry> phew. vikings were wrong then
[17:12] <shauno> just be careful saying that to their faces.  else you'll end up with a geordie accent
[17:14] <shauno> I got a spinning top in a kinder egg, and it's been the highlight of my day.  gotta love weekend shifts
[17:25] <foobarry> haven't bought a kinder egg since i found a quid while riding my grifter and bought 4 plus 4 cola bottles
[17:25] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[17:25] <foobarry> ?
[17:25] <foobarry> lie in?
[17:45] <MartijnVdS> Would programmers/sysadmins be considered "vi kings"?
[17:47] <shauno> MartijnVdS: that's terrible
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> shauno: "emacs kings" doesn't have that ring to it
[17:47] <shauno> meh.  emacs users aren't sysadmins, they're misplaced pianists.  that's why every command is a chord
[18:12] <map> hm everyones back at last..stupid splits
[19:11] <SuperMatt> While I like the new menus, I just press alt+printscreen
[19:11] <SuperMatt> and it looks aweful
[19:12] <SuperMatt> because you need the menu blended with the window title
[19:13] <popey> bugs welcome
[19:16] <daftykins> pesky freenode
[19:16] <popey> ya
[19:25] <SuperMatt> popey: do you know what package I'd raise against?
[19:25] <SuperMatt> indicator-appmenu?
[19:25] <popey> unity
[19:25] <SuperMatt> cheers
[19:29] <SuperMatt> bug 1283530
[19:30] <popey> shit
[19:30] <SuperMatt> !language
[19:30] <SuperMatt> :P
[19:30] <popey> opened your bug, clicked the image, then pressed "ALT+F4" to close the window
[19:30] <SuperMatt> closed the entire browser?
[19:30] <SuperMatt> had something important in their?
[19:31] <SuperMatt> tere]
[19:31] <SuperMatt> there
[19:31] <SuperMatt> man, my fingers suck
[19:31] <SuperMatt> not as much as your's though
[19:32] <SuperMatt> glad to see that software updater now has a restart later button
[19:32] <ali1234> lol keyboard wizards
[19:32] <ali1234> indicator-appmenu crashes in xfce btw
[19:33] <ali1234> i wanted to implement local menus in xfwm but i can't even get global menus to work properly
[19:33] <SuperMatt> raise the bug :)
[19:33] <ali1234> also why does it depend on most of unity?
[19:33] <ali1234> SuperMatt: i don't have time for that, plenty of other bugs in xfce i can work on
[19:34] <SuperMatt> rightyo
[19:35] <popey> http://www.planets-cube.com/ hmm
[19:35] <ali1234> as far as i'm concerned LIM is just another poorly-considered band-aid to try to work around the terrible design of unity
[19:35] <ali1234> but if people want it in xfwm then i'll try to implement it
[19:35] <ali1234> so far nobody wanted it
[19:38] <popey> SuperMatt: having a hard time reproducing that bug
[19:38] <ali1234> well that's clearly because it is a race condition
[19:39] <SuperMatt> really?
[19:39] <SuperMatt> I managed to get it to do it a few times
[19:39] <ali1234> i notice you are using nvidia
[19:39] <ali1234> compiz is unbelievably slow on nvidia
[19:40] <ali1234> none of the developers use nvidia, so this won't be fixed
[19:40] <ali1234> the slowness probably makes it easier for you to reproduce the bug
[19:41]  * SuperMatt nods
[19:41] <SuperMatt> it's not really a show stopper, but I thought I'd raise it so at least it can be mulled over
[20:33] <calju16> hey all. hows it going?
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> hey calju16
[20:34] <popey> yo
[20:35] <calju16> just a thought, is there any  point in using a switch in a wireless network?
[20:35] <penguin42> what's the switch connected to?
[20:35] <MartijnVdS> calju16: Well, switches are wired devices
[20:36] <calju16> at the minute, it has yet to be bought.
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> calju16: so it all depends on network architecture -- like penguin42 asks: what is it connected to :)
[20:36] <penguin42> calju16: Imagine you had a switch, where would you connect it to?
[20:38] <calju16> the plan is to have it connected to my homehub, switching internal net traffic as I plan on attaching a file/media server to the LAN
[20:38] <daftykins> if the homehub doesn't have enough sockets for you, then yeah adding a switch would help
[20:42] <calju16> I'll be honest - I'm still new to networking. Everything we've been taught on has been over a wired network, but my home lan is wireless. Is there any point in using one in a wireless environment? I mean, don't routers do much the same job?
[20:44] <daftykins> consumer routers are actually switches, wireless access points and modems/transceivers all in one
[20:45] <daftykins> a switch just provides more *wired* sockets, i'm not sure what you mean by wireless switch
[20:45] <daftykins> in essence a wireless access point is already a wireless switch as multiple devices can connect and communicate
[20:45] <penguin42> calju16: A switch just lets you connect multiple wired things together; the only use for one on wireless system is to connect multiple access points
[20:46] <penguin42> calju16: Or to mix wired/wireless
[20:46] <popey> or to connect a printer which is wired only
[20:46] <calju16> ah right. okies.
[20:48] <calju16> cheers for that folks. as I say - I'm still learning, and have only properly worked with wired nets so far.
[21:29] <daubers> Evening
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> \o daubers
[21:32]  * MartijnVdS listens to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u4Md_aXVJE
[21:34]  * daubers attempts to use a CAD package to model a rocket nozzel
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> is it up to the task?
[21:36] <daubers> I don't know yet :)
[21:36] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Only way to find out is to set the rocket off I guess
[21:36] <penguin42> daubers: What size rocket nozzel?
[21:36] <daubers> Question is, have I remembered enough maths/physics to do this
[21:36] <penguin42> or should I say, what size rocket?
[21:36] <daubers> penguin42: That's the question :)
[21:37] <MartijnVdS> daubers Von Braun
[21:37] <daubers> penguin42: I'm building a hybrid using Nitrous and Acrylic, so the rocket size is yet to be decided as it depends on motor performance
[21:37] <penguin42> daubers: Well, I mean how high are you trying to get with this rocket?
[21:37] <daubers> penguin42: Orbit of course!
[21:38] <daubers> penguin42: I might have some how manage to end up in a gentlemans agreement with Manchester Hackspce about getting the first Doge in orbit
[21:38] <daubers> or something
[21:38] <daubers> they've gone the balloon route. I prefer explosives
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> Acrylic? As in the transparent plastic stuff?
[21:38] <daubers> MartijnVdS: Indeed!
[21:38] <MartijnVdS> daubers: that's *rocket fuel*?!
[21:38] <penguin42> daubers: Doge?
[21:38] <penguin42> daubers: Odd it doesn't sound like those guys to want to go for a safe option :-)
[21:38] <daubers> MartijnVdS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPWqCMb7DE
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: much dangerous! very explosion!
[21:39] <diddledan__> wow
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daubers: hey, I'm subscribed to that channel :)
[21:39] <daubers> MartijnVdS: :)
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> daubers: he does weird things
[21:43] <ali1234> i bet that doesn't smell nice
[21:43] <daubers> I'm trying to find a valve to allow gas through one way, but not allow fire back the other way
[21:45] <penguin42> daubers: Where do you intend to run this thing?
[21:46] <daubers> penguin42: Reading Hackspace
[21:46] <penguin42> daubers: Oh that's south; if you were doing that up here I'd come and laugh, watch
[21:47] <ali1234> i want to see that thing run until it burns all the way through
[21:47] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I'm assume that pops with a bang
[21:48] <ali1234> i'm pretty sure that would result in a huge fireball with molten acrylic sticking to everything
[21:48] <penguin42> yes, might be best to laugh from a distance
[21:48] <MooDoo> evening all
[21:49] <daftykins> heya
[21:49] <diddledan__> don't forget to get clearance from the ATC for the airspace you plan on utilising if you're planning on getting to space
[21:50] <daubers> diddledan__: Yup, we've got NOTAMs for laser shows before
[21:50] <diddledan__> :-)
[21:52] <daubers> diddledan__: There'll be static firings first to calibrate the nozzle and figure out thrust curves
[21:52] <diddledan__> proper thought out stuff then? :-p
[21:53] <diddledan__> I was figuring big flame = gogo juice
[21:53] <diddledan__> gogo juice = space in no-time
[21:54] <penguin42> daubers: On that thing how do you get the oxygen to the rocket?
[21:54] <daubers> diddledan__: Nah, trying to do all the math properly
[21:54] <penguin42> it doesn't look the lightest of constructions even without an oxygen tank hanging off it
[21:55] <daubers> penguin42: Tank onboard, using Nitrous instead of O2 as it's a bit easier to handle
[21:55] <daubers> You use a smaller tank onboard
[21:56] <penguin42> what else do you plan on putting on it?
[21:56] <MartijnVdS> HUMANS
[21:56] <MartijnVdS> *cough*
[21:56]  * penguin42 doubt there are many of those in reading
[21:57] <diddledan__> put a bitcoin miner and make it able to compute the highest altitude bitcoin evar
[21:57] <daubers> penguin42: Altimeters and stuff, HD camera :)
[21:57] <penguin42> nod
[21:57] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: but.. Martians landed in *Woking*, not Reading
[21:58] <penguin42> they did?
[21:58] <daftykins> daubers: soft toy in the video shot i hope! ;)
[21:58] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds
[21:58] <diddledan__> hmm, choice of soft toy could be a contentious issue
[21:59] <daubers> I do have a fluffy haggis?
[21:59] <daubers> Though for reading I suppose I should use a lion of some kind
[21:59] <penguin42> daubers: http://www.giantmicrobes.com/uk/products/martianlife.html
[22:00] <MartijnVdS> daubers: kept it outside the fridge for too long?
[22:00] <daubers> :p
[22:42] <MartijnVdS> daubers: do you also follow this guy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WECW88rJYrE
[23:13] <ali1234> ummmmm... i just opened system settings in trusty and i got a weird window that looks like something from the phone
[23:15] <ali1234> imagebin.org/295086
[23:15] <ali1234> what is going on?
[23:19] <ali1234> SuperMatt: i can't reproduce your bug... when i press alt+printscreen it takes a screenshot of the hud
[23:22] <daftykins> lol
[23:22] <daftykins> about this phone!
[23:23] <penguin42> try making a call....
[23:24] <ali1234> ah i see, you have to hold alt to prevent the hud opening
[23:25] <ali1234> then it takes the screenshot when you release alt
[23:25] <ali1234> so there's a race condition between the menu disappearing and the screenshot happening
[23:26] <penguin42> can't you specify a delay on the screenshot?
[23:28] <ali1234> not with alt-printscreen, it immediately screenshots the active window
[23:28] <ali1234> well, i say immediately, there seems to be a short delay but it is not configurable
[23:28] <ali1234> it could be just how long it takes to load up the program
[23:30] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm that's inconvenient - the KDE screenshot does that by default but then once it brings up it's dialog lets you capture again with a delay
[23:31] <ali1234> well, that's KDE for you
[23:31] <daftykins> what, working? surely not
[23:32] <ali1234> nah, KDE just makes you do the screenshot twice. once wrong, and then again right
[23:33] <penguin42> ali1234: OK, if you haven't got a GUI to do it,  sleep 5; convert X:root foo.jpg
[23:34] <ali1234> i am surprised that actually works on a composited desktop
[23:34] <penguin42> it normally does
[23:34] <penguin42> varies on graphics cards etc though
[23:35] <ali1234> ok, so i've got a question
[23:35] <ali1234> an X11 window cannot ever be outside of it's parent, correct?
[23:35]  * penguin42 doesn't think so but I might be wrong
[23:36] <ali1234> and the only way to make a window that doesn't draw anything is InputOnly?
[23:36]  * penguin42 doesn't know about that 
[23:36] <ali1234> but if a InputOutput window has an InputOnly as parent, it will never get drawn
[23:36] <penguin42> I mean there were the windows defined by masks - eg. the way you can do round ones
[23:37] <ali1234> right but if you mask out the window with XShape then it can't receive input either, so it effectively doesn't exist at all
[23:37] <ali1234> so my question is, InputOnly windows are only useful inside a single client?
[23:37] <ali1234> or if the client doesn't want to draw anything at all
[23:38]  * penguin42 hasn't done any serious X programming in probably 15-20 years so can't really say
[23:38] <ali1234> hmmmm
[23:38] <ali1234> well, know anything about wayland?
[23:38] <ali1234> like how does it mitigate these issues?
[23:38] <ali1234> i have a feeling the answer is "lol, not our problem"
[23:39]  * penguin42 doesn't - but I don't really understand your problem that you're trying to solve
[23:39] <ali1234> the problem is 1 pixel window borders
[23:39] <ali1234> specifically making them bigger without changing the appearance
[23:39] <ali1234> i am now 99% certain this is impossible without compositing
[23:40] <penguin42> nope, don't understand the problem
[23:41] <ali1234> you know when you have a theme with 1px window borders, and you're trying to grab the edge but it's really hard because you have to hit a 1px wide area?
[23:41] <penguin42> yeh
[23:41] <ali1234> so you make the window manager create a bigger fake area where you can grab - this area needs to be transparent
[23:42] <penguin42> oh you mean you want a false area you can grab
[23:42] <ali1234> yes
[23:42] <ali1234> this isn't possible though
[23:42] <ali1234> the extra area can never be transparent
[23:42]  * penguin42 hadn't realised anything made a false area - I'm just used to things having a wider border
[23:43] <ali1234> if you make it a InputOnly window then it has to be inside the parent, and the parent has to be InputOutput, which means it will always be drawn
[23:43] <ali1234> if you just specify nothing to be drawn there, you get corrupted garbage
[23:45] <penguin42> well yes, it would have to be if it was drawn