[00:17] <daftykins> nn all \o
[01:17] <penguin42> http://anandtech.com/show/7739/arm-cortex-a17 has a couple of fun ARM slides on
[01:17] <penguin42> 1B smartphones shipped in 2013
[01:21] <ali1234> who was complaining that nvidia settings monitor layout gets forgotten after reboot?
[01:21] <ali1234> i just hit this bug
[01:21] <ali1234> it's a bug in unity-greeter
[01:21] <ali1234> it does not affect any of the other lightdm-greeters
[01:27] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-greeter/+bug/1283615
[03:00] <maps|wrk> hello
[07:17] <map> hm
[07:40] <shauno> mornin map
[07:42] <map> morning mate
[10:39] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[15:41] <map> afternoon
[15:46] <penguin42> it is
[15:56] <diddledan> speaking of which, morning :-)
[16:00] <shauno> o/
[16:12] <diddledan> anyone heard of pipelight? it's a new one on me - looks similar to the proprietary crossover linux feature which allows windows plugins via wine to run on linux-based browsers
[16:14] <diddledan> found here: https://launchpad.net/pipelight
[16:14] <shauno> sounds terrifying
[16:15] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh sounds similar - I know 2 or 3 people who've implemented something like that
[16:15] <diddledan> there's a blog post about it here: http://fds-team.de/cms/articles/2013-08/pipelight-using-silverlight-in-linux-browsers.html
[16:20] <diddledan> I don't like that they've patched the wine source but don't state that they've upstreamed their changes so I'm assuming they haven't
[16:20] <penguin42> diddledan: Well if they've got the source there then perhaps they're just figuring it out first
[16:24] <popey> yes, i have tried pipelight here
[16:24] <popey> was a bit picky about browser agents when I tried
[16:25] <diddledan> yeah they've got an FAQ about useragents
[16:26] <MamPowerM> nice
[16:27] <MamPowerM> to b here
[16:28] <jussi> diddledan: I use it regularly for silverlight. its fantastic to have that, prior, there was no workaround.
[16:32] <diddledan> jussi: yeah, I'm thinking it may finally be a way of getting netflix working
[16:32] <diddledan> I wonder if anyone's working on getting xbmc to cooperate for a way to get netflix into the tv with a beige-box
[16:32] <jussi> diddledan: I think they have it already, have a google
[17:32]  * SuperEngineer has finished (semi-)buiding new pooter & is on it now!
[17:32] <SuperEngineer> but has a question re installing onto a new disk
[17:33] <penguin42> ask it
[17:35] <SuperEngineer> ...I have created a primary partion for root, extendeds for home & swap but not sure if the stuff from home on old disk should go under a folder [if it comes for home/xxx do I copy to a folder xxx in home partition or copy direct to "top" of home partiton
[17:35] <SuperEngineer> & hi penguin42
[17:36] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: That's mostly up to you; if you copy the Pictures/Documents/Downloads directories into your new /home/super then they'll just work like before, i.e. a photo program will show them, if you copy them into /home/super/fromoldmachine  then you'll need to navigate into it
[17:37] <map> ;
[17:37] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: With the . directories it also depends, for example I tend to copy the .mozilla to keep the hitory and stuff, but you might want to start all your other configs fresh
[17:37] <penguin42> map: !
[17:38] <map> ]hello
[17:39] <SuperEngineer> it's mainly the .stuff I'm thinking of.  If a install IU tell installer the home partion is home will it create other stuff in a username folder & ignore the stuff I copied direct from "my" home into the partiotion?
[17:40] <SuperEngineer> .mozilla & .local/steam in particular
[17:40] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: You can always copy those in afterwards
[17:41] <Wobbo> I use 13.10 64 bit. Wine crashes. I only get a few seconds the see the configuration. I have tried several Wine versions. Any tips?
[17:41] <diddledan> I love partions
[17:41] <diddledan> partions of chips are awesome
[17:41] <diddledan> :-p

[17:41] <penguin42> diddledan: Portions
[17:41] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: methinks you have hit the nail on the head - copy in after!  DOH!!!
[17:42] <SuperEngineer> thanks penguin42
[17:42] <diddledan> penguin42: not according to SuperEngineer :-p
[17:42] <SuperEngineer> diddledan: que???
	 ...I have created a primary partion for root
[17:43] <SuperEngineer> yup
[17:43] <diddledan> I like mocking typos
[17:43] <SuperEngineer> so....
[17:43] <diddledan> it makes me feel superiour
[17:43] <SuperEngineer> i meant to put portion!!
[17:43] <SuperEngineer> was eating wjen I created it :)
[17:43] <diddledan> nope, you meant to put partition
[17:44] <SuperEngineer> was eating wjen I created it :)
[17:44] <diddledan> lol
[17:45] <diddledan> yeah, so I usually feel inadequate and poking holes in things others say and do gives me a sense that I'm better than them and alleviates my self-hatred for a moment ;-)
[17:45] <diddledan> either that or I'm just an asshat
[17:45] <diddledan> I'm not sure which TBH
[17:46] <diddledan> I either have an inferiority complex or I really am inferior.
[17:46] <diddledan> just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> and just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean they are out to get you!
[17:48] <diddledan> really, with the NSA about, I think it pays to be paranoid
[17:49] <diddledan> in other news, why is my netboot moaning about squashfs being wonky?!
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> did you make your own squashfs?
[17:49] <diddledan> nope
[17:49] <diddledan> straight off the DVD
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> packet loss
[17:50] <diddledan> it seems to always be the same block though
[17:50] <penguin42> what are you serving it from?
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> misburn?
[17:50] <diddledan> penguin42: freenas+zfs
[17:50] <penguin42> diddledan: I'd try fetching the squashfs and see if it md5's the same as the dvd
[17:51] <diddledan> I'm thinking the deduplication of zfs is borking it up
[17:52] <diddledan> I was trying to avoid having to redownload the iso and burn another disc
[17:53] <diddledan> I swear the faeries steal my ubuntu cd/dvds and hide them from me
[17:55] <SuperEngineer> diddledan: been checking your last few posts - damn, no errors!!!
[17:56] <SuperEngineer> [hate it when the rest of the world can keyboard more accuratey than I can] ;)
[18:00] <diddledan> SuperEngineer: I should really be more forgiving. Especially as I'm not as perfect as I think I am
[18:02] <SuperEngineer> hmmm... in my case - my modesty is only surpassed by my honestly
[18:02]  * SuperEngineer notices his nose just grew longer!
[18:03] <SuperEngineer> [opened the doorway for a correction there....
[18:15] <SuperEngineer> darn -just closed nvidia by mistake - now stuck in expo mode - time for a restart - silly me
[18:49] <diddledan> don't you hate when companies insist on you registering your details with them to view a document that is supposedly impartial informational material
[18:49] <diddledan> the latest one to get my goat is vmware's "true cost of free"
[18:50] <penguin42> oh that's so that they can then nag you to hell later
[18:50] <diddledan> yeah, hence my dislike for it :-p
[18:52] <diddledan> I'm sure I'd get riled if I actually read the document anyway so I guess it's an advantage that I refuse to give them my details
[20:18] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: my gps unit arrived
[20:18] <diddledan> MartijnVdS: just need to work out how to connect it to the pi
[20:19]  * penguin42 can't help wonder if you tracked the GPS unit as it was being shipped
[20:22] <map> diddledan,  what is it youre trying to make
[20:24] <diddledan> map: an accurate ntp server
[20:25] <map> aha why?:D
[20:25] <shauno> why not?
[20:26] <ali1234> why using GPS for that? why not MSF?
[20:27] <penguin42> GPS is a fairly common way
[20:27] <penguin42> ali1234: A lot of the GPS units output a time stream/sync pulse
[20:28] <ali1234> GPS time is really rubbish though
[20:28] <ali1234> i have a clock that does it, it's always wrong by at least half an hour
[20:28] <penguin42> you have a broken clock that is failing to do it
[20:29] <ali1234> then why does it always adjust itself to the wrong time when the power goes off?
[20:29] <diddledan> the real question is where's my spare pi?!
[20:29] <penguin42> ali1234: Because it's broken
[20:29] <shauno> how ate all the pi?  you really have to ask?
[20:30] <shauno> (gsp is liable to be much better documented too)
[20:30] <penguin42> don't know, MSF has been going for decades, lots of stuff on how to do it
[20:30] <shauno> I apparently can't type today
[20:31] <shauno> transpositions all 'round
[20:31] <penguin42> you just did
[20:31] <shauno> this seems interesting; http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dwmalone/time/rugby.html
[20:31] <shauno> he's added a skew because it's slow relative to gps?
[20:32] <ali1234> how to even tell which one is wrong?
[20:32] <shauno> I guess that's what I found interesting
[20:33] <shauno> not so much which is wrong, but which is perceived to be canonical
[20:33] <ali1234> yeah
[20:33] <ali1234> in the end you have to just pick one
[20:33] <diddledan> split your difference?
[20:33] <diddledan> (painful)
[20:33] <penguin42> shauno: Is that something to do with latency through the receivers he's using or time of flight from rugby?
[20:34] <diddledan> gps should be more accurate than rugby because you can use multiple points to correlate a canonical time based on each satellite's time and time-of-flight calculations
[20:34] <ali1234> could be linux buffering the tty
[20:34] <penguin42> yeh
[20:34] <penguin42> I'd expect a good GPS unit to specify/subtaract the latency through itself
[20:35] <shauno> thinking about it, that would be a downside of rugby; it has no idea how far you are from cumbria, so it can't possibly adjust
[20:36] <diddledan> shauno: exactly
[20:36] <shauno> not that it's a particularly significant distance.  the earth is 0.05? light-seconds wide
[20:37] <diddledan> shauno: multipoint-to-point is better than point-to-point
[20:37] <shauno> (altough from living in cumbria myself, I do believe there are spatial anomalies that result in some parts of the county still being in the mid-80s)
[20:39] <diddledan> hmm, can't find that pi anyplace
[20:39] <diddledan> wonder wtf I did with it?!
[20:39] <diddledan> I'll have to use one of my other ones (not that it's doing anything right now, either)
[20:48] <diddledan> who was messing with the build farm for raspibuntu?
[20:49] <shauno> alan
[20:49] <popey> http://fundraiser.pitivi.org/
[20:49] <diddledan> I haven't been contacted for my name-a-pi yet is all - just wondering how things are progressing
[20:49] <popey> wonder if they'll reach their target
[21:07] <foobarry> the e35k target?
[21:08] <foobarry> thats doable, 350 people who think pitivi is worth 100E to them.?
[21:09] <foobarry> would be nice to have a flagship video editor that is the "go to" one
[21:10] <diddledan> ho hum
[21:12] <diddledan> I guess I need some short wires to jury-rig this together
[21:12]  * diddledan goes to maplin.co.uk
[21:20] <daubers> diddledan: Time to get the wallet out if you're off to maplin
[21:29] <bit> bitsnow
[21:29] <diddledan> huh?
[21:29] <diddledan> daubers: yeah, maplin is a moneypit
[21:31] <shauno> well if you head there just because you're out of solidcore project wire, then .. bigtime
[21:32] <ali1234> maplin is really expensive
[21:32] <diddledan> is there "another way"?
[21:32] <ali1234> http://www.rapidonline.com/
[21:33] <ali1234> http://rswww.com/
[21:33] <ali1234> http://farnell.com/
[21:33] <ali1234> even if you don't hit the minimum order amount on those sites, they're still usually cheaper than maplin
[21:34] <diddledan> ooh, intel galileo
[21:34] <diddledan> see you shouldn't give me more to drool over!
[21:34] <ali1234> i only go to maplin if i need it today and they have it in the shop
[21:36] <diddledan> hmm, my computer seems to be not doing internet things
[21:37] <diddledan> chrome is just "loading"
[21:37] <diddledan> ergh, and firefox won't start
[21:37] <diddledan> methinks this mac is dieing
[21:40] <diddledan> it seems to be hanging on IO
[21:40] <daftykins> diddledan: best put it down ;)
[21:40] <shauno> (dying)
[22:19] <daubers> diddledan: Even http://www.ebay.co.uk is better sometimes!
[22:19] <neuro> new HDD time? :)
[22:19] <neuro> or SSD \o/
[22:22] <shauno> or even worse .. reboot?
[22:22] <MrGrymReaper> Hello
[22:23] <MrGrymReaper> Has anyone considered doing a LUG out Norwich way?
[22:29] <shauno> http://www.alug.org.uk  seem to have their meetings in norwich
[22:51] <ali1234> anyone got any strategies for finding memory corruption bugs? valgrind doesn't seem to be very good at it
[23:01] <diddledan> grrs
[23:06] <diddledan> interesting: http://nodered.org/
[23:07] <shauno> I see a lot of buzzwords & a flat/bootstrap hybrid, so it must be good.  care to translate it into english?
[23:08] <diddledan> this may help more: http://learn.adafruit.com/raspberry-pi-hosting-node-red
[23:09] <shauno> it kinda doesn't.  they seem to keep throwing "internet of things" in there for kicks and giggles
[23:10] <diddledan> second sentence :-)
[23:10] <diddledan> keep reading! :-p
[23:11] <shauno> the "internet of things" is every single device using a completely different markup/language, and each vendor breaking upnp in their own special way to even if you try to generalize it, you can't
[23:11] <ali1234> so it's like https://ifttt.com/
[23:11] <ali1234> except running on a raspberry pi?
[23:12] <ali1234> (ifttt is a website that lets normal people do the type of things that you could do with a bash script in a about 5 minutes)
[23:13] <diddledan> ali ifttt seems to be actions based on internet things. node-red is actions based on things. (note the lack of internet - they _can_ be internet but they needn't be)
[23:13] <ali1234> ifttt doesn't have to be internet things
[23:13] <diddledan> tabcomplete fail
[23:13] <ali1234> there are modules to connect it to various hardware devices
[23:14] <ali1234> you can make it turn your lights on and off when someone mentions you in a tweet and other stupid things like that
[23:14] <diddledan> so, erm. how do they operate it as a service _and_ allow you to connect offline devices?
[23:14] <ali1234> it doesn't work with offline devices
[23:14] <shauno> ifttt is what lets anyone in the world turn my coffee machine on because belkin's security was cooked up by a preschooler ;)
[23:14] <ali1234> they all have to be connected, obviously
[23:14] <ali1234> nodered is basically your own private version of ifttt, that's what i mean
[23:15] <diddledan> maybe. ifttt has a serious lack of information on what it can connect to
[23:15] <diddledan> with nodered it can connect to _anything_ that you can code a connector for
[23:16] <ali1234> well the same applies to ifttt
[23:16] <ali1234> it works with this: http://www.belkin.com/uk/Products/home-automation/c/wemo-home-automation/
[23:16] <ali1234> and many other things
[23:16] <ali1234> like arduino: https://ifttt.com/recipes/135057-triggering-ifttt-from-arduino
[23:17] <shauno> I'm curious to see if any fun hacks come for the wemo
[23:17] <diddledan> that's more like it
[23:17] <diddledan> or not
[23:17] <diddledan> that's just smtp
[23:17] <shauno> since they quite kindly decided to ship the private key & the passphrase for signing their firmware updates, it's kinda up to motivation/boredom now
[23:18] <ali1234> really?
[23:18] <shauno> not intentionally, but yup
[23:18] <shauno> for some insane reason the firmware contains the private key instead of the public key
[23:18] <ali1234> the one i saw had literally nothing in the box except for the hardware unit. even the instructions were printed on the inside of the lid
[23:18] <ali1234> oh, it's in the device?
[23:19] <ali1234> did they use a symmetric encryption to sign it?
[23:19] <diddledan> they really should issue a new update that autoapplies which sets a new key
[23:19] <shauno> it's all setup pki.  but they provided the wrong key
[23:19] <ali1234> lol, belkin
[23:20] <shauno> http://www.ioactive.com/news-events/IOActive_advisory_belkinwemo_2014.html
[23:20] <diddledan> shauno: maybe "the bad people" should do random ghost houses
[23:21] <shauno> The Belkin WeMo firmware images that are used to update the devices are signed with public key encryption to protect against unauthorised modifications. However, the signing key and password are leaked on the firmware that is already installed on the devices.
[23:21] <ali1234> a ghost house?
[23:21] <diddledan> ali1234: flickery lights and such
[23:21] <diddledan> ali1234: maybe some ghostly wails if they have enough access
[23:22] <shauno> what I find scarier are less visible attacks
[23:22] <ali1234> but i just got a fixed rate mortgage!
[23:22] <diddledan> i.e. someone installs a belkin thing that does audio should such a device exist
[23:22] <shauno> the device can operate as a WAP; that's the state it ships in.  you connect to the AP it advertises and run the setup
[23:22] <diddledan> shauno: oh god
[23:23] <shauno> so with some firmware mutilation, it could quite easily run a wap+service to advertise your network credentials
[23:23] <shauno> ie, that's a service that already exists on the device, and settings the device requires for its normal operation.  someone just needs to include one into the other, and turn the default service back on
[23:24] <ali1234> you could totally do that whole ghost house thing to my brother (he's the wemo owner, he has all upnp devices too, and uses WEP even though i keep telling him to change it)
[23:24] <shauno> I have a wemo on my coffee machine, because it takes so long to warm up that it's nice to be able to turn it on when I leave work
[23:25] <ali1234> i built my own with el cheapo maplin sockets
[23:25] <ali1234> and a AM radio module. i probably told you this before
[23:25] <shauno> so the convential response to this 'attack' is "aha, I could boil your kettle dry"
[23:26] <ali1234> my brother uses it for his lights, so you actually could make his lights flicker and play ghostly wails on his stereo
[23:26] <neuro> KA-FLENNEN-ZBLORG-CHARN-GORFLAG!
[23:27] <shauno> my lights are json over http, but a bit more annoying if you're not on my lan
[23:27] <shauno> (if you are on my lan you can just ask philips for the rest.  they match by source IP, so anything originating from my NAT is allowed)