[00:00] <vthompson> ahayzen, a lot will need to be changed when grilo is removed. I'm sure this won't be missed while testing.
[00:01] <ahayzen> vthompson, yep :)
[00:01] <popey> ahayzen: approved https://code.launchpad.net/~vthompson/music-app/fix-1276170/+merge/207810
[00:02] <ahayzen> popey, thanks vthompson ^^
[00:02] <vthompson> popey, ahayzen top approved. Thx
[00:04] <ahayzen> popey, will dpm be updating his device throughout MWC?
[00:05] <popey> I don't know. I'll ask him when I see him.
[00:09] <vthompson> popey, could you triage this bug and possibly review the MP I have for it? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-terminal-app/+bug/1283848
[00:10] <popey> vthompson: confirmed
[00:14] <vthompson> popey, sergiusens, looks like the MP has merged. Sergio you can fire again :)
[00:15] <sergiusens> vthompson, already building :-)
[00:15] <sergiusens> vthompson, btw, if you don't mind merging line 11 into your change?
[00:15] <sergiusens> for the terminal
[00:16] <sergiusens> both have the same destination
[00:16] <vthompson> Will do
[00:17] <popey> sergiusens: i just tried to use "click-buddy --dir fix-1283848-add-icons-cmake/"
[00:17] <popey> and pushed the click to the device (and then copied the plugins folder from an older release in) but the app just white screens
[00:17] <popey> am I missing a step?
[00:18] <sergiusens> popey, I didn't fix the hack if this is terminal, music or files
[00:18] <popey> ah, its terminal
[00:18] <popey> of course, i forgot
[00:18] <sergiusens> popey, we agreed to move the plugin compilation in tree
[00:18] <sergiusens> like reminders
[00:18] <popey> yeah
[00:18] <popey> memoryfail
[00:19] <ahayzen> popey, i forgot did we have an eta for the new mediascanner? or is there a blueprint i can track?
[00:19] <popey> ahayzen: that's a jhodapp question
[00:19] <popey> will find out and let you know
[00:19] <ahayzen> popey, is he doing the media-hub and mediascanner?
[00:20] <popey> ya
[00:20] <sergiusens> he's doing the hub
[00:20] <sergiusens> not sure about scanner
[00:20] <ahayzen> popey, awesome :)
[00:21] <popey> added to to-do
[00:21] <vthompson> James Henstridge  was doing the scanner QML bindings originally
[00:21] <sergiusens> popey, https://myapps.developer.ubuntu.com/dev/click-apps/143/
[00:22] <popey> ack
[00:22] <ahayzen> vthompson, ah yes tht name seems familiar
[00:22] <sergiusens> didn't you guys talk about this same thing on Friday :-P
[00:22] <sergiusens> ?
[00:22] <ahayzen> probably
[00:23] <vthompson> I don't recall being part of that discussion, but my memory has failed me before
[00:24] <ahayzen> vthompson, think it was just between me popey and sergiusens
[00:25] <sergiusens> on #ubuntu-app-devel
[00:27]  * popey runs ap
[00:33] <ahayzen> vthompson, has ur Songs tab been renamed to 'Music'?
[00:35] <vthompson> ahayzen, I'll check. That sounds like part of the change Michael Spencer made
[00:35] <ahayzen> vthompson, yep thts wht i'm thinking
[00:35] <ahayzen> vthompson, i see the issue
[00:35] <ahayzen> vthompson, i'll put up a patch
[00:36] <popey> I do so enjoy our sunday evenings together ☻
[00:36] <ahayzen> \o/
[00:39] <ahayzen> vthompson, https://code.launchpad.net/~andrew-hayzen/music-app/fix-songs-tab-name/+merge/207850
[00:41] <vthompson> ahayzen, approved and top approved. good catch
[00:41] <ahayzen> thanks
[00:41] <sergiusens> one more build then
[00:41] <vthompson> sergiusens, yes please :)
[00:41] <popey> hmm, autopilot fail
[00:41]  * sergiusens waits for merge
[00:41]  * popey reboots and runs again.
[00:42] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6984692/
[00:42] <popey> anyone seen that before?
[00:43] <ahayzen> popey, nope
[00:43] <popey> hmm
[00:43]  * popey re-runs
[00:43] <ahayzen> popey, is tht even coming from us?
[00:51] <popey> gnnn
[00:51] <popey> ok, same error
[00:52]  * popey files bug to track it
[00:52] <ahayzen> :/
[00:52] <ahayzen> popey, how are we running tests with the new click buddy etc?
[00:53] <popey> this was with the image made by sergiusens
[00:53] <popey> i downloaded from the store, so would be the image landing on end user phones
[00:53] <sergiusens> popey, that's autopilot
[00:53] <popey> ap broken?
[00:53] <popey> why haven't i seen this before?
[00:53] <sergiusens> popey, sort of, yes
[00:54] <sergiusens> popey, should be fixed if tests are python3
[00:54] <ahayzen> ah yes
[00:54] <popey> filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/1283868 anyway
[00:54] <popey> feel free to re-assign
[00:55] <popey> sergiusens: my problem is if I push this we'll get AP failure on QA overnight, right?
[00:56] <sergiusens> popey, I'd file that against autopilot
[00:56] <popey> ok
[00:56] <sergiusens> popey, and yes
[00:56] <popey> done
[00:56] <sergiusens> popey, I'd disable the test for now
[00:56] <popey> hmm
[00:56] <popey> no, I'd rather not do that
[00:56] <sergiusens> did it work before?
[00:57] <popey> I haven't seen this error before
[00:57] <ahayzen> sergiusens, popey Jenkins is passing?
[00:57] <popey> and I do not fancy the wrath of QA from the ill-recommended disabling of tests
[00:57] <popey> ahayzen: i suspect it may fail if I let 356 through
[00:57] <sergiusens> ahayzen, yeah; but it's a different code path
[00:57] <ahayzen> ah i see
[00:57] <sergiusens> ahayzen, the jenkins tests are useles IMO, they run on desktop
[00:57] <popey> ☹
[00:57] <ahayzen> :/
[00:58] <popey> which is one reason why I'm always keen on running them on-device before publishing
[00:59] <popey> I'll chase the ap problem up with balloons tomorrow
[00:59] <popey> uh, later today
[00:59] <ahayzen> cool
[00:59] <ahayzen> heh perspective
[00:59] <popey> lemme play with the app
[01:00] <popey> tell you what (unrelated) - we should have /home/phablet/Pictures exposed as DCIM or whatever it is photo apps look for
[01:01] <sergiusens> popey, I have to run for a bit; jenkins is building latest music if you want to give it a spin
[01:02] <popey> sergiusens: I'm going to publish 356
[01:02] <sergiusens> popey, if you decide to run ap against it and it's ok; I'll post/publish
[01:02] <popey> I will leave next rev till tomorrow
[01:02] <sergiusens> ack
[01:03] <sergiusens> I'll put it up on the store later tonight
[01:03] <popey> k
[01:03] <popey> thanks vthompson ahayzen sergiusens
[01:03] <ahayzen> thanks popey
[01:03] <popey> published 356
[01:39] <basketball> do yo have to pay to develop apps for ubuntu
[01:41] <vthompson> basketball, Nope! Have a look at http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/
[01:41] <vthompson> You can write apps and push them to the app store for free and fairly quickly--they do need to be reviewed
[01:42] <basketball> i dont have ubuntu touch but i am thinking about flashing it does it void warrenty
[01:45] <vthompson> basketball, I'm not sure if flashing voids the warranty. You should be able to reflash with your provider's ROM and it shouldn't have an impact on your warranty.
[01:45] <basketball> but if the device breaks before i can reflash
[01:46] <vthompson> basketball, also there's an emulator you can use if you run 14.04. That's all you probably need to test out your app.
[01:46] <basketball> what language is the app written in
[01:46] <vthompson> If you have a Nexus 4 it's incredibly easy to flash to Ubuntu Touch
[01:46] <basketball> nexus 7
[01:46] <basketball> 2013
[01:47] <vthompson> QML (Qt5 and Javascript) and HTML5,
[01:47] <basketball> i only know c++
[01:48] <vthompson> Currently the 2013 N7 is not supported: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[01:48] <basketball> it will be for 14.04 though right
[01:48] <vthompson> I'm not sure
[01:49] <vthompson> I'm just a developer, I'm not really in the know about such things
[01:51] <RAOF> Native Qt5 (ie: C++) is also supported.
[01:52] <basketball> i only know c++
[01:52] <basketball> can i still develop
[01:53] <RAOF> Yes.
[01:54] <vthompson> Qt5 is a C++ platform. You'd have to learn some of the Qt specific features that are used. But, I'd recommend considering QML as your target language. It's not too hard to learn and the API docs are pretty good.
[01:55] <basketball> do you guys have ubuntu touch installed
[01:55] <vthompson> on an Nexus 4, yes
[01:56] <basketball> how stable is it
[01:56] <vthompson> I haven't had any stability issues.
[01:57] <basketball> are there good apps
[01:57] <vthompson> You have a few options and can either install a stable version or a developer version. I run the developer version and upgrade every few days. Some times there are glitches, but overall I rarely have issues
[01:57] <basketball> are there good apps
[01:57] <vthompson> Yes
[02:55] <Guest92028> hi
[02:56] <Guest92028> ubnutu touch system requiremnets
[07:01] <dholbach> good morning
[07:07] <shuduo> dholbach: morning :)
[07:10] <chetan> where to download ubuntu for android?
[07:11] <chetan> ubuntu set up for android. . .
[07:12] <shuduo> dholbach: hasn't forthcoming app showdown contest 2014 officially announce?
[07:15] <dholbach> hi shuduo
[07:15] <dholbach> shuduo, no, it'll be announce on the 26th
[07:16] <dholbach> so we still need to figure some small bits out
[07:16] <shuduo> dholbach: got it.
[08:36] <ara> bzoltan1, ping
[09:02] <shuduo> i reported a but for ubuntu-keyboard https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-keyboard/+bug/1283975, actually dev branch with some manual tunning works good.
[09:26] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Bartender Day! :-D
[09:30] <ogra> om26er, is that a normal 4.4 install ? not anything like dualboot installed ?
[09:30] <om26er> ogra, yeah, normal. I flash it clean with image from developers.android.com
[09:30] <om26er> rather .google.com
[09:30] <om26er> https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/images
[09:30] <ogra> hmm
[09:31] <ogra> weird
[09:31] <WebVisitor-0> Hello
[09:31] <om26er> ogra, i am now downloading image 206 to be sure
[09:32] <ogra> k
[09:32] <WebVisitor-0> I have a question regarding ubuntu's compatibility with multitouch overlays
[09:32] <ogra> worst case you can flash recovery and boot images manually (from cdimage via fastboot) that wuill definitelyl force the device to upgrade
[09:32] <WebVisitor-0> I'm planning on using ubuntu as the interface for a multitouch table
[09:32] <WebVisitor-0> Any idea if I should expect any errors or bugs?
[09:33] <WebVisitor-0> The drivers for the overlay support linux, but would it work on ubuntu?
[10:49] <popey> JamesTait: is it possible to go back multiple versions with the "back to previous published" button?
[10:50] <popey> JamesTait: music-app 356 is published, I want to go to 329 via 350
[10:51] <JamesTait> popey, I don't know, but let me see if Ican figure it out from the code.
[10:52] <popey> thanks
[11:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:22] <JamesTai1> popey, we think it should be possible, so long as both the versions you want to revert to were previously published. :)
[11:37] <popey> JamesTait: yes, rolling back twice worked, thanks
[11:38] <JamesTait> popey, thanks, I'll feed that back for future reference. :)
[11:43] <didrocks> thanks popey, JamesTait!
[12:29] <xplt> Do I need to create a new emulator instance every day [i.e. how often is it being updated]?
[13:37] <bzoltan1> ping ara
[13:52] <om26er> tsdgeos, it this the right time to start reporting bug for new-scopes branch? or shall i wait for that to first land in ubuntu ?
[13:58] <tsdgeos> om26er: you can report them sure
[13:59] <tsdgeos> om26er: but make sure you specify it's on the new-scopes branch that is happening please
[13:59] <om26er> tsdgeos, sure will do.
[14:02] <ara> bzoltan1, pong
[14:04] <bzoltan1> ara: shoot
[14:04] <ara> bzoltan1, just about the email I sent you on Friday and that I followed up with kalikiana earlier before
[14:04] <ara> bzoltan1, that's why I pinged you
[14:33] <OttOmanTR> Where can I see currently available apps for Ubuntu Touch? Any market like web site?
[14:35] <popey> OttOmanTR: not yet, but there's a nice app for it... https://gist.github.com/rschroll/8952015
[14:36] <OttOmanTR> umm so apps.ubuntu.com will be used but filtered for ubuntu touch, right?
[14:36] <popey> i dont know if that is the plan
[14:37] <kenvandine> renato, https://developer.gnome.org/libecal/stable/libecal-e-cal-util.html#e-cal-util-generate-alarms-for-comp
[14:37] <pmcgowan> OttOmanTR, there will be a nice website sometime soon
[14:37] <kenvandine> renato, that lets you specify a start and end
[14:38] <OttOmanTR> pmcgowan: ok
[14:38] <kenvandine> renato, and when you create the alarm, you can set_repeat on it with duration and interval
[14:38] <aquarius> kalikiana, ping.
[14:38] <aquarius> kalikiana, new complaint: indexes in u1db-qt don't work if you have more than one field in your index expression :(
[14:38] <kenvandine> https://developer.gnome.org/libecal/stable/ECalComponent.html#e-cal-component-alarm-set-repeat
[14:38] <kenvandine> renato, ^^
[14:39] <aquarius> kalikiana, I wish you hadn't implemented all the index stuff yourself and had done it the way the reference impl does it instead :(
[14:39] <renato> kenvandine, ok thanks, I will check this
[14:39] <pmcgowan> renato, kenvandine who works on qtorganizer-eds
[14:39] <pmcgowan> or is that what you are talking about
[14:40] <renato> pmcgowan, me
[14:40] <pmcgowan> renato, did you see the alarm bug I entered fir?
[14:40] <pmcgowan> fri
[14:40] <pmcgowan> bug #1283236
[14:41] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i noticed that too :)
[14:42] <renato> pmcgowan, I will work on that
[14:42] <pmcgowan> renato, thanks not sure where the issue resides
[14:43] <renato> pmcgowan, this alarm support on indicator was released last week?
[14:44] <pmcgowan> renato, yes in proposed builds
[14:44] <pmcgowan> renato, charles released a bunch of code to make it work
[14:44] <renato> pmcgowan, nice I will test this
[14:44] <kalikiana> aquarius: I think you do know python is totally different to qml and there's no obvious approach short of copying the C code and getting a horrible API
[14:45] <kalikiana> aquarius: is this tested with latest trunk fixes in place? and, examples code?
[14:45] <aquarius> kalikiana, I'm just putting together an example. I'm testing it with whatever's currently *packaged*, rather than compiling my own u1db because real users don't do that :)
[14:45] <kalikiana> (and it did not help that kevin knew as much python as you know C++…)
[14:46] <kalikiana> aquarius: fair enough, I can do a test run for you, I just need to see that it wasn't already fixed :-)
[14:47] <kalikiana> if you haven't seen, we have a second C++ dev finally
[14:54] <aquarius> kalikiana, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6987355/
[14:54] <aquarius> kalikiana, switch between the two U1DB.Querys with the toolbar
[14:54] <aquarius> note that the one-item query works fine
[14:54] <aquarius> but the two-item query returns docs that it shouldn't match
[14:55] <aquarius> (also, that a query only returns fields that you indexed, not a whole document, but you already know about that bug and have a branch on hold to fix it :))
[14:57] <nik90> renato, pmcgowan: I talked to zsombi this morning who mentioned that the alarms API takes the time given by clock app and passed it to EDS without any modifications.
[14:57] <nik90> renato: so can you check on the EDS end what timezone it requires as the input
[14:57] <nik90> renato: I suspect that's where the issue lies.
[14:57] <pmcgowan> nik90, which is a full date object, renato is looking
[14:58] <nik90> pmcgowan: yes
[14:58] <pmcgowan> could still be in i-dt I suppose, there is logic to check if an alarm is outstanding
[14:58] <nik90> pmcgowan, renato: Btw I am tracking alarm daily usage blocker bugs at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-clock-app/+bugs?field.tag=dogfooding-blocker
[14:58] <pmcgowan> nik90, excellent
[14:59] <pmcgowan> almost there, finally
[14:59] <nik90> pmcgowan: yes
[14:59] <kalikiana> aquarius: how to approach the behavior of the returned fields is still under discussion, we have two new ideas including explicitly indicating it in the query and using a version bump for the change - the later might be a way to change abi without breaking anything that's not modified and without adding any "clutches"
[15:00] <aquarius> kalikiana, I don't mind how it happens, I just mind *that* it happens. I should not have to index every field in my document just to get them back from a query :)
[15:00] <kalikiana> though it sort of kicked lose a huge api discussion in the whole sdk and thus I took a break from that
[15:01] <aquarius> kalikiana, but I'm more worried today about the error exhibited by the pastebin above -- if I have a two-item query expression, the query doesn't actually do any filtering and just returns every document.
[15:01] <kalikiana> aquarius: sure. just keep in mind we actually have people using it who would jump to your throat if they knew you want to break their stuff
[15:02] <aquarius> kalikiana, definitely, and I understand that completely -- a version bump seems like the way forward here, because the existing broken way is indeed incompatible with the actual proper way. This is what version bumps are for.
[15:03] <kalikiana> (I'll try your paste in a jiffy I'm waiting for a fresh bzr clone to test with)
[15:04] <kalikiana> aquarius: yeah the version seems like the cleanest way. just we don't really facilitate versions at all otherwise so I'd better not stumble into a booby trap
[15:04] <sergiusens> cjwatson, tedg hey, mzanetti just pointed me to bug 1251635
[15:04] <sergiusens> where the idea of a short id is discussed
[15:04] <sergiusens> I don't thing changing the APP_ID is what was wanted;
[15:05] <sergiusens> instead, the desktop file that was generated
[15:05] <sergiusens> as in if app_id=com.ubuntu.camera_camera_1.0 -> desktop == com.ubuntu.camera_camera.desktop (or something of the sort)
[15:07] <tedg> sergiusens, Yes
[15:07] <tedg> sergiusens, Not sure what you're asking for :-)
[15:09] <tedg> sergiusens, We've discussed this with the Unity folks and the long term solution is that they need a click hook for getting the data they need.
[15:09] <tedg> sergiusens, Using the fallback desktop files that we've put there for other desktops isn't really a good solution.
[15:09] <sergiusens> if you've discussed it already fine
[15:10] <tedg> That all being said, I think it might be useful for other desktops to have the shortened desktop files.  But it's not a priority to get done :-)
[15:10] <mzanetti> tedg: but, those fallback desktop files for other desktops will suffer the same issues
[15:11] <mzanetti> right
[15:11] <mzanetti> they are just useless for anything else except listing the *current* state of the directory and launching them. you can't cache them, you can't link them or anything
[15:11] <mzanetti> as an upgrade of the app will break it
[15:11] <tedg> Well, you can list all the apps to run.
[15:12] <mzanetti> yeah... so the same as we have in unity8 right now
[15:12] <mzanetti> you can launch those click app from the apps scope, but they won't work in the launcher or a "favorties" or most used "scope" or the like
[15:12] <tedg> But anyway, it's a bit of a change as we have to put more information in the desktop with X- properties to ensure we can sync properly and all that.
[15:12] <tedg> I started a branch for it, but it's not trivial.
[15:14] <tedg> Everyone in the entire world is suddenly going to agree that Unity 8 is the best, and use it, right?  ;-)
[15:14] <mzanetti> ok... solves the problem to an extend where we only have to implement all the workarounds in unity8
[15:15] <kalikiana> aquarius: to clarify, what in the example are you (not) seeing
[15:15] <kalikiana> I see two rows in the first, three in the second
[15:16] <cjwatson> sergiusens: I don't know what you're asking for either; I already added the short-app-id facility to click
[15:16] <tedg> Perhaps we could put it in a different package so that it only ends up on desktop builds, save some CPU time/space on the smaller devices.
[15:16] <tedg> (the click hook to build those files)
[15:16] <popey> pmcgowan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/click-update-manager/+bug/1256797
[15:17] <popey> can you confirm that?
[15:17] <sergiusens> cjwatson, it's ok; tedg and mzanetti took it from here...
[15:17] <mzanetti> sergiusens: cjwatson: actually... /me still thinks the version number doesn't belong in the appid
[15:17] <aquarius> kalikiana, if you look at the definition of the queries, you'll see that one of them is ["show"] and the other is ["show", "*"] -- that is, they should both return just the 2 "show" documents and not the one "hide" document
[15:17] <pmcgowan> popey, need to load latest
[15:18] <cjwatson> mzanetti: I'm not changing the app-id.  End of story
[15:18] <cjwatson> mzanetti: Use the short-app-id if you don't need the version
[15:18] <popey> pmcgowan: running 206 here fwiw
[15:18] <aquarius> kalikiana, but the two-item query is ignoring that it says ["show", "*"] and is acting as though it says ["*","*"] -- that is, it doesn't actually act as a query at all!
[15:18] <cjwatson> mzanetti: I am absolutely not risking breaking existing code
[15:18] <tedg> mzanetti, I think that it belongs very solidly in the lower levels of the plumbing to make them tight and predictable.  In the higher levels (click scope, unity, etc.) that should be hidden from the user.
[15:20] <kalikiana> aquarius: d'oh. you're right.
[15:20] <mzanetti> cjwatson: sure, I get that you don't want to change it, I probably wouldn't want to that either in your situation, just saying, the short-app-id doesn't solve the problem.
[15:21] <cjwatson> mzanetti: Why not?
[15:21] <cjwatson> mzanetti: I mean, obviously any hooks where it matters need to change as well
[15:21] <mzanetti> cjwatson: because we need to get to the information of the .desktop file
[15:21] <kalikiana> aquarius: I'm pondering what other than the number of fields affects it. it would seem ridiculous if that's the only factor
[15:22] <cjwatson> mzanetti: But removing the version number from the app-id is exactly what the short-app-id is; if removing the version number from the app-id directly solved your problem, then using the short-app-id would also solve your problem
[15:22] <cjwatson> mzanetti: So I don't even slightly understand why you're continuing to push on the question of the app-id definition
[15:23] <aquarius> kalikiana, I do not know.
[15:23] <cjwatson> mzanetti: The hook that generates the desktop file symlinks should just change to use the short-app-id
[15:23] <cjwatson> (if it hasn't already)
[15:23] <mzanetti> cjwatson: oh... that's a different story then...
[15:24] <mzanetti> I didn't know that would be possible
[15:24] <cjwatson> mzanetti: That was the whole point of introducing the short-app-id!
[15:24] <cjwatson> It was just a two-part fix, that's all, and the second part isn't mine
[15:24] <mzanetti> ah. ok... understood now
[15:31] <kalikiana> aquarius: I'm incorporating it into the unit tests, if I know what the pattern is I'll file a bug
[15:31] <kalikiana> *once
[15:33] <aquarius> kalikiana, ok
[15:33] <aquarius> for now I shall have to just not use indexes and do it by hand :(
[15:39] <aquarius> kalikiana, no, I can't even do it by hand, because U1db.Query doesn't have an onItemsInserted signal handler even though it's a ListModel :(
[15:42] <kalikiana> aquarius: you sure that's part of the interface? it's a QAbstractListModel and not necessarily whatever ListModel in QML is
[15:42] <kalikiana> aquarius: how about onDocumentsChanged or onResultsChanged?
[15:42] <aquarius> kalikiana, aha! that sounds useful. I'll look into those!
[15:43] <kalikiana> it may give you all items, not only the new ones, but should work for you
[15:44] <kalikiana> (I think I'm close to finding the bug in the unit test, but still unsure what exactly causes it)
[15:54] <charles_> nik90: ping
[16:16] <frazz> Hey Everyone, is there a release date for Ubuntu Touch? If I had to guess it'd be when 14.04 comes out. But you know what they say when you assume things... ;)
[16:16] <tedg> The Canonical post says that the industrial design of the Meizu and BQ phones can be seen at MWC.  Anyone got pix?
[16:21] <nik90> charles: pong
[16:23] <frazz> @tedg http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/02/bq-meizu-ubuntu-smartphones-confirmed-for-2014-release
[16:23] <frazz> @tedg I just came across that. It's got some links to the phone manufacturer's site.
[16:26] <tedg> frazz, Yeah, I think that's still a photoshopped image.  Want to see the actual thing, that's real :-)
[16:27] <frazz> tedg, I hear ya. Me too.
[16:31] <kalikiana> aquarius: https://bugs.launchpad.net/u1db-qt/+bug/1284194 please double-check that the unit test queries are correct https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/wonderiousFields/+merge/207968
[16:31] <tedg> frazz, https://twitter.com/Device_Atlas/status/437985689322659840
[16:31] <m-b-o> balloons: are you around? I have a mp for you to fix flaky tests
[16:31] <tedg> Might be an N10 though.
[16:32] <Tassadar> that is N10 :)
[16:32] <balloons> m-b-o, I am
[16:32] <balloons> send it along
[16:33] <frazz> tedg, yeah, it's hard to tell.
[16:34] <m-b-o> balloons: https://code.launchpad.net/~martin-borho/ubuntu-weather-app/anchors-refactoring/+merge/207793
[16:36] <m-b-o> balloons: besides the changed ap tests, the anchors stuff should also improve things
[16:36] <balloons> this is quite a diff
[16:36] <balloons> wow.. ok, so I can review from a test perspective :-)
[16:37] <m-b-o> balloons: from my side yes!
[16:38] <m-b-o> balloons: the anchors stuff replaced bad style
[16:47] <barry> Laney: i've pushed an update to my citrain-2.1 branch (2.1-0ubuntu2).  can you rebuild the silo and try again?  (tested here, wfm)
[16:47] <Tassadar> stgraber: hi, I've set up my own system-image server with hammerhead images, according to your blog post, at http://system-image.tasemnice.eu/ and I've got some questions about it :)
[16:48]  * barry -> lunch
[16:49] <Laney> barry: okay, but couldn't you have used the same version?
[16:49] <Laney> oh no, you don't get mangled by the train
[16:49] <Laney> nm
[16:49] <barry> Laney: yep, we use a siding :)
[16:50] <stgraber> Tassadar: sure
[16:51] <Tassadar> firstly - if I install images from that system-image server, it's gonna try to download updates from it too (and not from ubuntu.com), I guess?
[16:55] <Tassadar> (I don't have https, so it won't work now, but theoreticaly)
[16:56] <xnox> waht the! spinning ubuntu touch logo on upgrade.
[16:56] <xnox> (well first flash)
[16:56] <Tassadar> also, when is import-images gonna generate new revisions - every time it sees either new rootfs or new device files, or just for rootfs? (my etc/config looks like this: http://hastebin.com/wuverivuce.ini )
[16:57] <xnox> (also progress bar is redundant, especially when it's choppy)
[17:31] <timppa|a1ay> rsalveti: Any news on the bug # 1283818
[17:38] <popey> balloons: music-app rev 359 passes AP and fixes the issues I had, ship it!
[17:40]  * balloons moves on it
[17:46] <mhall119> hey guys, why do I have a discrepency in the amount of data in my /home?
[17:46] <mhall119> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# du -sh /home
[17:46] <mhall119> 2.2G	/home
[17:46] <mhall119> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# df -h |grep home
[17:46] <mhall119> /dev/mmcblk0p23                 5.7G  5.7G     0 100% /home
[17:46] <mhall119> du says 2.2G, df says 5.7G
[17:56] <mhall119> alex-abreu: it seems every app that uses QtWebkit is storing up to 30M of data their .QtWebKit/cache/ folder
[17:57] <sergiusens> popey, what was the issue?
[17:57] <alex-abreu> mhall119, whats in it?
[17:57] <popey> sergiusens: from music app? command line parameters missing for launching with a song name in the cli
[17:58] <popey> sergiusens: bug 1284025
[17:58] <sergiusens> popey, and that was causing the autopilot decoding error?
[18:00] <mhall119> alex-abreu: looks like web caches, no idea what the content is
[18:01] <Laney> can I change channel without upgrading straight away?
[18:01] <popey> sergiusens: no
[18:03] <sergiusens> ogra, try plugging in a usb hd; do you get two popups?
[18:05] <ogra> sergiusens, the only one i have handy has photos ... so i get the "what shold i do" dialog
[18:05] <sergiusens> ack
[18:05] <ogra> only once though
[18:05] <ogra> and my flo behaves atm as well
[18:05] <ogra> using image 206
[18:05] <sergiusens> ogra, so whenever I plug anything storage; I get two popups on desktop; want to know if it's only me
[18:06] <ogra> i only get one here
[18:07] <Beldar> .
[18:09] <nik90> ogra: when did you guys get to #226? I thought the latest was #206
[18:10] <ogra> nik90, it is ?
[18:11] <ogra> who said 226 ?
[18:11] <nik90> ogra: I saw didrocks g+ post
[18:11] <nik90> nvr mind I think it is a typo
[18:11] <ogra> nik90, well, at least didrocks didnt write 2026
[18:11] <ogra> nik90, he did that in all meeting today :)
[18:11] <nik90> hehe
[18:12] <didrocks> grrrr
[18:12] <didrocks> we should stop with numbers
[18:12]  * didrocks edits his post
[18:12] <didrocks> (fixed on G+)
[18:12] <ogra> yeah
[18:12] <didrocks> let's use letters!
[18:12] <ogra> lets get fancy release names for each image
[18:12] <didrocks> right
[18:12] <didrocks> everyday!
[18:12] <ogra> ++
[18:12] <sergiusens> randomly generated
[18:13]  * didrocks will start naming images after md5sum
[18:13]  * ogra wants to hear you pronounce that in the meeting 
[18:13] <didrocks> ahah
[18:14] <mhall119> pmcgowan: where should I file a bug about the phone behaving badly when it's out of space on /home/?
[18:19] <bfiller> kenvandine: hey, can you repush this MR against lp:ubuntu-ui-extras which has now been moved to lp:~phablet-team/ubuntu-ui-extras: https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-ui-extras/share_much_needed_tlc/+merge/207526
[18:20] <kenvandine> bfiller, sure
[18:21] <mhall119> alex-abreu: where should I file a bug about the .QtWebKit/cache/ storage problem?
[18:21] <alex-abreu> mhall119, in ubuntu-html5-theme
[18:22] <mhall119> really? even though it's affecting things like the G+ and Facebook apps?
[18:28] <mhall119> pmcgowan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dialer-app/+bug/1284255 is pretty bad
[18:28] <mhall119> making the phone unusable as a phone when you run out of space in /home/
[18:29] <ogra> dont do that then :)
[18:29] <mhall119> shouldn't anything the phone needs to operate be saved outside of /home/?
[18:29] <ogra> dialer-app runs as phablet user ...
[18:29] <ogra> afaik
[18:30] <mhall119> then we need to give is some special storage area that the user can't fill with music or pictures
[18:30] <mhall119> "take one more photo and you won't be able to dial 911" is not okay
[18:32] <ogra> but the user wont have write access ...
[18:32] <ogra> hmm
[18:32] <ogra> probably some "dialer" group
[18:32] <ogra> that owns a dir in /var ... and that all users are part of
[18:35] <pmcgowan> mhall119, whats the symptom, does it happen when you make or get a call? like trying to write the log?
[18:35] <mhall119> pmcgowan: it seems the radio can't be used at all when /home/ is full
[18:35] <mhall119> it can't even detect the carrier or IMEI number
[18:36] <pmcgowan> mhall119, thats not obvious to me
[18:36] <pmcgowan> hmm
[18:39] <mhall119> the dialer itself is able to load, look up contacts, but the green button is disabled (presumably because it knows it can't actually call anyone)
[18:41] <sergiusens> mhall119, ogra pmcgowan this is why http://paste.ubuntu.com/6990375/
[18:41] <ogra> ugh, yeah
[18:41] <sergiusens> mhall119, and that
[18:41] <sergiusens> mhall119, and that's why du -sh gives a different result
[18:41] <ogra> so even using the apache model (group owned dir in /var) wouldnt work
[18:42] <mhall119> sergiusens: what am I looking at?
[18:42] <ogra> the list of mounted rw dirs
[18:42] <ogra> they are all on the same device
[18:42] <ogra> (including your home)
[18:42] <sergiusens> that ^
[18:42] <ogra> that will even show other fallout
[18:43] <ogra> dielaer-app is just lucky to be the first one misbehaving
[18:43] <mhall119> ogra: I think network manager is too, last night it was unable to connect to my home wifi (kept askingme for my password too)
[18:43] <ogra> right
[18:43] <sergiusens> ogra, /data is also where rild would writ to iirc
[18:44] <ogra> sergiusens, is that ext4 without reserved space for root ?
[18:44] <ogra> usually ext4 sets 5% iirc
[18:44] <sergiusens> ogra, android's /data
[18:44] <ogra> sergiusens, still ext4
[18:45] <ogra> we might need to set reserved space during install
[18:45] <kenvandine> bfiller, resubmitted https://code.launchpad.net/~ken-vandine/ubuntu-ui-extras/share_much_needed_tlc/+merge/207995
[18:45] <sergiusens> ogra, yup
[18:45]  * mhall119 is surprised he's the first to use up all the space on the drive
[18:45] <bfiller> kenvandine: great, thanks
[18:45] <sergiusens> mhall119, you aren't I think
[18:46] <sergiusens> logs have killed people too
[18:46] <pmcgowan> all heck breaks lose when disk is full
[18:46] <ogra> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# dumpe2fs /dev/mmcblk0p30|grep "Reserved block"
[18:46] <ogra> dumpe2fs 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
[18:46] <ogra> Reserved block count:     0
[18:46] <ogra> Reserved blocks uid:      0 (user root)
[18:46] <ogra> Reserved blocks gid:      0 (group root)
[18:46] <ogra> there we go
[18:46] <sergiusens> pmcgowan, even on desktop ;-)
[18:46] <pmcgowan> indeed
[18:46] <sergiusens> but more critical on a phone ;-)
[18:46] <ogra> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# tune2fs -m 5 /dev/mmcblk0p30
[18:46] <ogra> tune2fs 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
[18:46] <ogra> Setting reserved blocks percentage to 5% (159334 blocks)
[18:46] <ogra> root@ubuntu-phablet:/# dumpe2fs /dev/mmcblk0p30|grep "Reserved block"
[18:46] <ogra> dumpe2fs 1.42.9 (4-Feb-2014)
[18:46] <ogra> Reserved block count:     159334
[18:47] <ogra> sergiusens, ^^^
[18:47] <ogra> there you go
[18:47]  * ogra reboots to see that this didnt mess up anything 
[18:47] <balloons> renato, how's the landings for the eds fixes for clock and calendar? nik90 and I were wondering on the timeline for landing
[18:48] <nik90> balloons: lol I asked on app-devel, hehe
[18:48] <ogra> sergiusens, i think that needs to actually live in the initrd ... thats the only place where we know the device name
[18:48] <balloons> nik90, hah.. whoops
[18:48] <ogra> some check for "Reserved block count:     0" ... and if that applies we bump it ...
[18:49] <ogra> stgraber, ^^^^thoughts ?
[18:49] <renato> balloons, boiko is testing it
[18:50] <stgraber> ogra: odd, I thought mkfs usually sets those to 5%
[18:51] <nik90> renato: okay
[18:51] <ogra> stgraber, androids mkfs doesnt ;)
[18:51] <stgraber> ogra: yeah, apparently not... we could hardcode a tune2fs call in the upgrader I guess
[18:51] <ogra> stgraber, thats androids data partition where we drop all writable stuff
[18:51] <ogra> so the user can fill up the system enough to make it unusable
[18:52] <ogra> stgraber, right, i was wondering if it should live in the upgrader or in the initrd
[18:52] <ogra> the only places where we know the device name
[18:52] <stgraber> ogra: I guess upgrader should be fine, let's just set it to sane value with every update. That's assuming we even have tune2fs in the recovery image...
[18:53] <ogra> right, thats easier to get into the initrd :)
[18:53]  * ogra reboots to recovery
[18:55] <ogra> ~ # tune2fs -v
[18:55] <ogra> tune2fs 1.41.14 (22-Dec-2010)
[18:55] <ogra> seems with that we're good
[18:55] <ogra> stgraber, the prob is dumpe2fs ... to get the info
[18:56] <ogra> unless you just blindly want to set it every time
[18:56] <stgraber> ogra: just blindly set it everytime, no reason to be clever about it ;)
[18:56] <ogra> heh, k
[19:12] <mhall119> is there a way to update apps from the commandline?
[19:12] <mhall119> since I can't currently update them from the GUI
[19:13] <pmcgowan> mhall119, install the update manager app?
[19:14] <n-iCe> hello, does whatsapp run already in ubuntu?! :D
[19:14] <ogra> n-iCe, nope
[19:14] <ogra> they killed all free projects working on clones before they got sold to facebook
[19:14] <n-iCe> wow, it has a slow develepment
[19:15] <renato> balloons, hey, boiko is testing the ui and notice that, after create a recurrence events it does not show in the ui, only after close and open the app again. Is that a known bug?
[19:15] <ogra> and they dont want to develop for ubuntu yet
[19:15] <ogra> i guess it has to show some momentum to them first
[19:15] <n-iCe> ok thanks
[19:19] <mhall119> pmcgowan: it's not in the store
[19:19] <popey> mhall119: its a deb
[19:19] <mhall119> I have system-image installed
[19:19] <popey> so do i
[19:19] <popey> make it rw and install click-update-manager
[19:20] <mhall119> from where?
[19:20] <popey> apt
[19:20] <popey> click-update-manager: Installed: 0.1+13.10.20131007-0ubuntu1 Candidate: 0.1+13.10.20131007-0ubuntu1
[19:21] <ahmed_>  hi all
[19:21] <popey> hello ahmed_
[19:21] <ahmed_> can I install touch on htc x one +
[19:21] <ahmed_> ??
[19:21] <popey> !devices | ahmed_
[19:21] <popey> see if it's on that list
[19:22] <ahmed_> I found in list "work in progress"
[19:22] <ahmed_> what's mean ?
[19:23] <popey> its not finished
[19:24] <ahmed_> it's work if I use model near to mine ?
[19:24] <ahmed_>  i want select htc one its near
[19:24] <renato> balloons, nik90, hey, boiko can not release the eds fix without update the calendar-app on the store
[19:25] <renato> and I do not have any clue how to do that
[19:26] <t1mp> ahmed_: it seems like that port was discontinued 1 year ago, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2171786
[19:27] <t1mp> ahmed_: so my guess is that there is no image for you to install that will just work.
[19:29] <ahmed_> t1mp:  before discontinued it was running ?
[19:29] <ahmed_> I am already remove my data
[19:29] <ahmed_> root
[19:29] <ahmed_> and waiting touch version
[19:30] <balloons> renato, what do you mean? I can push to the store if needed
[19:30] <renato> boiko, ^^^
[19:30] <sergiusens> renato, balloons and myself have the keys
[19:32] <boiko> balloons: sergiusens: would that reflect into an updated calendar-app in the next image?
[19:32] <t1mp> ahmed_: sorry I have no idea. I only clicked the link next to "HTC One X" on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[19:32] <sergiusens> boiko, if we upload to the store; it will sync into the image
[19:32] <balloons> boiko, what version of calendar do you need? I can see what's out there, but it's pretty recent, if not the most recent
[19:33] <balloons> boiko, yea, rev 201 is in the store, same as trunk
[19:37] <ahmed_> t1mp: thanks u friend
[19:37] <ahmed_>  thanks all people here
[19:41] <boiko> balloons: nice, thanks!
[19:49] <e-Ra> hi all, does the sdk include a simulator?
[19:52] <mhall119> e-Ra: it has an emulator, go to the "Devices" tab in QtCreator/UbuntuSDK
[19:52] <mhall119> it's currently emulating ARM, so it's pretty slow
[19:53] <mhall119> an x86 emulator is in the works and should be much faster
[19:54] <Saviq> sergiusens, can I u-d-flash, bootstrap without wiping? i.e. can I upgrade to 4.4.2 without wiping $HOME?
[19:59] <e-Ra> mhall119: ok thx
[20:03] <sergiusens> Saviq, hey, sorry for delays
[20:03] <Saviq> sergiusens, no worries
[20:03] <ogra> sergiusens just got upload rights :)
[20:03] <ogra> in the meeting next door
[20:04] <sergiusens> Saviq, you can't really do that unless you flash from recovery itself
[20:04] <sergiusens> Saviq, there's an upgrader fix that needs to happen so upgrades use the latest recovery
[20:04] <sergiusens> Saviq, that said; we can workaround the issue
[20:04] <Saviq> sergiusens, ah ok, rsync ftw then ;)
[20:04] <sergiusens> Saviq, what device?
[20:04] <Saviq> sergiusens, mako
[20:04] <Saviq> sergiusens, but no worries
[20:05] <Saviq> sergiusens, I got my $HOME rsynced already, just an update away :)
[20:05] <sergiusens> nah, I just need you to manually flash the recovery.img and the ubuntu-device-flash --channel devel-proposed
[20:05] <sergiusens> then* ubuntu-device-flash
[20:05] <Saviq> sergiusens, no need to flash bootloader?
[20:06] <sergiusens> nope
[20:06] <Saviq> ah ok, that I can do
[20:06] <sergiusens> Saviq, we don't flash bootloaders automatically for fear of breakage :-)
[20:06] <ogra> never even think of flashing the bootloader
[20:06] <Saviq> thought it needs an upgrade between android versions :)
[20:06] <ogra> that can actually produce an unrecoverable brick
[20:07] <Saviq> someone should tell cwayne :D
[20:07] <ogra> (and will kill 500 kittens ... the cute type)
[20:07] <Saviq> mwc-flash auto-flashes bootloader if android != 4.4 :D
[20:07] <ogra> eeek !
[20:07] <ogra> thats brave
[20:07] <sergiusens> ogra, I flashed it plenty of times; it's part of of flashing android
[20:07] <ogra> i thought only boot and recovery
[20:07] <ogra> sergiusens, ssshhh
[20:08]  * Saviq too
[20:08] <sergiusens> but that's not an automated download :-)
[20:08] <Saviq> but consider myself schooled
[20:09] <Saviq> sergiusens, u-d-f will happily recognize the device in the new recovery/
[20:10] <sergiusens> Saviq, yes
[20:10] <sergiusens> Saviq, no need to pass device type
[20:10] <Saviq> oh cool, if only it booted, /me must've failed to flash the right recovery
[20:14] <Saviq> better
[20:19] <kaimast> hi. is it possible to use lxc on ubuntu phone?
[20:20] <stgraber> sergiusens: hey, so do you expect it'd be a problem for phablet-flash if a channel contained a slash?
[20:20] <stgraber> (channel name that is)
[20:20] <kaimast> i basically want to have a normal virtual machine that i can install stuff with dpkg. i thought maybe i could use lxc so i don't break something on the host
[20:20] <sergiusens> stgraber, let me check
[20:20] <stgraber> sergiusens: you can check with phablet.stgraber.org ubuntu-touch/test
[20:21] <sergiusens> stgraber, I don't think so; but I'll write a test
[20:21] <sergiusens> stgraber, ah great; faster
[20:21] <stgraber> (I don't have phablet-flash installed here as I don't want click on my system)
[20:21] <sergiusens> stgraber, the new thing is ubuntu-device-flash and you can install it (depends on fastboot and adb only)
[20:21] <sergiusens> stgraber, but I'll give it a run
[20:21] <anpok> hi kaimast
[20:22] <stgraber> sergiusens: ah, that seems much more reasonable :)
[20:22] <stgraber> sergiusens: basically my plan is to move all channels on system-image.ubuntu.com to ubuntu-touch/ . The change would occur in the next few days if we can confirm that none of the tools will blow up over it.
[20:22] <sergiusens> stgraber, it doesn't work, but I can fix it
[20:22] <anpok> kaimast: i thought u use a different nick..
[20:23] <stgraber> sergiusens: doh, ok, so yeah, would be nice if you could fix phablet-flash and ubuntu-device-flash (if also affected)
[20:23] <kaimast> anpok: sorry what? :P
[20:23] <sergiusens> stgraber, it consuses it with the uri scheme for some reason so I'll dive into it and get a fix landed
[20:23] <stgraber> sergiusens: we don't have any immediate plan for non ubuntu-touch stuff on system-image.u.c, but I don't want to move stuff around post-release
[20:24] <stgraber> sergiusens: ok, let me know when things look good in the archive (and whatever PPAs people use). I'll follow-up with barry to make sure the downloader code copes well with this too.
[20:24] <sergiusens> stgraber, sounds reasonable
[20:24] <anpok> kaimast: you launchpad page says something different ..
[20:25] <anpok> kaimast: I havent used it but seems to be part of the image i currently use
[20:25] <kaimast> aaah thanks for the info (the LP is like 7 years old)
[20:25] <kaimast> yeah but I wonder if setting up a lxc container will break something
[20:26] <kaimast> i
[20:26] <kaimast> i'll just try and see
[20:26] <anpok> what are you actually doing at the moment?
[20:27] <kaimast> trying to install ccnx (www.ccnx.org). i needs a lot of packages like java and i cannot use dpkg on a regular ubuntu phone install. but i thought it might work inside a lxc contianer
[20:27] <kaimast> i
[20:27] <kaimast> i'll just try. the ubuntu install is only for testing anyways
[20:31] <kaimast> okay mhh images are put into /var/lib/lxc. wonder if that will break images based updates
[20:37] <ogra> kaimast, userspace lxc should work ... system lxc might have some issues since we disable some of the default lxc bits on the phone
[20:38] <kaimast> ogra: mhh but userspace lxc cannot access hardware right? can i bridge network somehow ?
[20:38] <ogra> well, thats the bit we disabled :)
[20:50] <stgraber> barry: you got mail :) I wasn't sure when you'd resurface on IRC.
[20:54] <kaimast> mmmh that sucks. can i re-enable it orga? the templates seem to be gone too :/
[21:02] <kaimast> i bet doing "apt-get install --reinstall lxc" will break my phone
[21:12] <coolspidy> anybody here
[21:12] <barry> stgraber: hopefully back for good now
[21:13] <coolspidy> Thanks
[21:13] <coolspidy> any hope to get Ubuntu touch on other low end devices?
[21:18] <balloons> renato, is this ready for a silo? https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/ubuntu-ui-toolkit/limit-alarms-fetch/+merge/207629
[21:19] <balloons> we'd like to test both EDS fixes at once I believe
[21:23] <barry> stgraber: i'll check it with a hacked client.ini file, but i see no reason why it should just work
[21:37] <nhaines> coolspidy: we're only working on software.  Hardware support is for OEMs and the community.  :)
[21:39] <nocomp> hi folks
[21:39] <nocomp> any news about ubuntu touch at mwc? can t see any news anywhere
[21:42] <genii> nocomp: http://insights.ubuntu.com/event/mobile-world-congress-mwc-2014/
[21:43] <stgraber> barry: yeah, obvious cases would be if you were storing the channel name in the file name but I don't think you ever do that
[21:52] <barry> stgraber: phablet.stgraber.org has self-signed certs?
[21:53] <barry> stgraber: FileNotFoundError: https://phablet.stgraber.com/gpg/image-master.tar.xz:
[21:54] <barry> but i can find it via the web ui
[21:54] <barry> (that error is coming from udm)
[21:54] <stgraber> barry: nope, it's not self-signed, it's a valid ssl cert
[21:54] <stgraber> barry: s/com/org/ :)
[21:54] <barry> ah
[21:54] <barry> gah
[21:56] <kaimast> i wonder if there is a way to know if an apt command will break my ubuntu touch system
[21:58] <barry> stgraber: works great afaict
[22:01] <stgraber> barry: cool, one less thing to fix. I'll wait for sergiusens's ok and then do an end to end test on phablet.stgraber.org. If that works, I'll send an announcement to ubuntu-touch and schedule some day for the change
[22:01] <stgraber> (as I'm putting symlinks, nobody should really notice the transition, though I want it announced as those symlinks will just be temporary so anyone mirroring the public server will need to change their config)
[22:21] <barry> ralsina_: can you try another rebuild on system-image in landing-010?  i'm sure this is just the regular dbus hup flakiness on the buildds
[22:26] <barry> or perhap one of the other americas touch vanguards?
[22:42] <MoPac> Hello, quick compatibility question: Is it envisioned that the first stable touch release will be capable of running on more or less any new-ish Android phone?  Or, if one were to buy, say, an S5 this spring, is there no telling at this point if it would be able to support Ubuntu at the end of the year?
[22:43] <sergiusens> MoPac, your best bet for an ubuntu phone is to wait for a real one
[22:44] <sergiusens> MoPac, from a Canonical standpoint we have a common denominator to develop features; but anyone willing can keep a port running; there are plenty from the community; e.g.; the nexus 5 is worked on today
[22:45] <MoPac> sergiusens: That could be a long time, though, particularly with my existing US contract up this summer, and me wanting to decide whether to invest in another contract with a cheap high-end phone
[22:45] <sergiusens> MoPac, I hear ting is a really good provider (I really don't understand the contract thing from the US as I don't live there)
[22:46] <MoPac> sergiusens: Maybe a better way of asking my question would be: is the hardware environment for Ubuntu on phones supposed to look more or less like the hardware environment for desktops and laptops?  One can buy more or less any Windows machine and expect Ubuntu to more or less run on it without major issues
[22:47] <MoPac> With a desktop or laptop, your "best bet" of course is still to get one that's certified as 100% working with Ubuntu, but you're not taking a huge risk if you don't
[22:49] <sergiusens> MoPac, I'd say it's even worse on mobile; there is no common rootfs
[22:49] <sergiusens> MoPac, if you look at android, there's no one tar to rule them all
[22:50] <sergiusens> we do have one big commonality though and that is our rootfs
[22:50] <sergiusens> but the hw enablement side is specific to the device
[22:52] <MoPac> So should I understand that there is unlikely to be any fundamental incompatability; i.e., any new Android phone could be made to work with Ubuntu, but it will require community work?
[22:53] <MoPac> (In that case, it might be worth it to get an Android-shipped phone provided it is a very popular one)
[23:17] <nhaines> MoPac: it's not worth it to buy a phone that doesn't run Ubuntu in the hope that one day it might.  If you really want one, I recommend a Nexus 5.
[23:18] <nhaines> MoPac: I agree with sergiusens.  If you want an Ubuntu phone, you should buy one--not an Android phone.
[23:18] <ralsina_> barry: still need it? I can trigger it now, sorry, was away
[23:18] <barry> ralsina_: np, yes please
[23:19] <barry> ralsina_: and cross your fingers.  virtualized ppas are, um, problematic
[23:19] <ralsina_> barry: http://162.213.34.102/job/landing-010-1-build/20/console
[23:19] <barry> ralsina_: thanks, i'll keep an eye on it
[23:20] <ralsina_> barry: seems to be building at least :-)
[23:20] <barry> ralsina_: yeah.  it'll build fine.  the test suite is the trick.  virt ppas have problems with dbus :/
[23:20] <ralsina_> ouch
[23:22] <barry> ralsina_: i've been struggling with that for *ages*.  i suspect the hardy kernel.  non-virt ppas (i.e. running precise) do much better
[23:22] <barry> otoh, let's hope they *all* run trusty before long