=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [00:36] grr @ io blocking [00:36] seems to be causing me to disconnect, too [00:37] io blocking? [00:37] ali1234: my mac appears to hang on heavy io [00:37] running linux? [00:37] no, osx [00:37] oh, well, gl with that :) [00:38] indeed [00:38] if it was linux i'd tell you to switch to noop scheduler on USB flash drives [00:38] that seems to fix it [00:38] is it on usb? [00:38] I am actually in the process of getting ubuntu installed, which brought this issue to light. copying my music onto a fat32 partition caused my mac to completely grind to a halt [00:43] I'd be kinda worried about that [00:44] it shouldn't be struggling at all. have you tried fsck/DU ? [00:44] (or are you just copying all your files onto a drive that's acting broken, and then gonna pull a sadface when it turns out they never made it) [00:45] it's my inbuilt system drive [00:45] it seems to be ok again now [00:46] stil doing a poo-load of io but it's not hanging anymore [00:46] I'd still be tempted to pop open Disk Utility and see if Verify coughs up any fs corruption, etc [00:46] I wonder if I was writing to blocks that hadn't been trim'd [00:49] or find some other way to verify the contents once they get there. because that's a pretty dodgy scenario. you move everything from A to B so that A has space to wipe & install ubuntu. and then find out that B is buggered and it's all gone [00:51] reminds me of a mistake I made installing debian *years* ago though. moved everything from disk1 to disk2 so disk1 was nice and clean and empty [00:51] and then accidentally installed debian to disk2 instead [00:51] it'll all be "in the cloud" if it is buggered [00:51] sorry language* [00:51] lol [00:51] oops [00:52] that's one annoying thing about unices but it can also be an advantage - the naming of block devices can be pretty random [00:52] you know it's disk one in osx but it suddenly becomes sdb in loonicks [00:52] disk1* [00:52] disk0* even [00:52] well, that was seriously potato-era. I'd be just as welling to blame human error. some lessons you just can't forget [00:53] mm, mashed potato [00:53] here's trivia; if you boot a mac from efi on usb, the disks are always numbered backwards [00:54] on the plus side it means the boot media is always disk0. on the down side it means my two hdd are reversed [00:55] but even grub-efi behaves the same [00:58] anyhoo, I'm off to bed. but distrust and verify; the only time I've managed to sink mine so hard that other apps were unresponsive, was when I went 300Gb into swap with a Blender accident [01:03] \o/ [01:03] blender accidents sound messy, but fun [01:03] capital-B for a reason ;) [01:05] (watch /var/log/system.log too. it's surprisingly not useless) [01:06] XD [01:07] 300GB? [01:09] fairly easy to do [01:10] convert a video file to animated gif and open in eog, it will allocate hundreds of gigabytes because it tries to hold every frame uncompressed in memory [01:10] the animated gif may be only a couple of GB [01:11] D: [01:11] also the oomkiller won't kill it until it has actually used all that memory due to copy-on-write [01:11] that seems greatly flawed [01:12] it was my first attempt at rendering minecraft maps. I suspect I bot off too big a chunk [01:12] so this will lock up the machine for a rather long time [01:12] (and osx pages to dynamic files rather than a partition, so it'll happily eat swap until it runs out of disk) [01:12] lol that's even worse [01:12] anyway, cgroups fixes this i hope [01:12] we can reserve physical memory for the system and force other processes to swap [01:13] so now swap is actually useful again :) [01:13] most the time it's happy because I live in <64Mb swap. when it's not happy it's really not happy [01:13] \o/ [01:14] surprised my laptop is only using 560KB swap at the moment [01:14] KiB Mem: 16314212 total, 15742300 used, 571912 free, 1700 buffers [01:14] KiB Swap: 8501244 total, 560 used, 8500684 free. 9165432 cached Mem [01:14] why would it use any at all when you have 16GB? [01:15] chromium [01:15] D: [01:15] popey: how many tabs? XD [01:15] you haven;t even used 8GB [01:15] not so many today [01:15] yeah, today [01:15] chromium isn't *that* heavy on ram [01:15] its way better than it was [01:15] it is with 2 profiles open with ~60 tabs open [01:16] but as I say,things are better now [01:16] there was a monster xorg leak recently which was solved, which makes me happy [01:16] was that the crashy one? [01:16] swapping a little isn't always a bad thing. if something genuinely hasn't been touched for hours, it makes sense to write it out [01:16] no, leaky one [01:16] I have a new crasher! [01:17] what do you win when you collect them all? [01:17] bug 1283568 [01:17] bug 1283568 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Desktop crashes when docking/undocking" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1283568 [01:17] also crashes when changing resolution [01:17] * popey changes the title of that bug [01:18] this is why i use nvidia [01:18] well indeed [01:18] are they not the same thing? undocking for me means a monitor goes missing [01:18] incidentally, unity-greeter is broken with nvidia on trusty [01:18] oh? [01:18] wfm [01:19] it ignores the xorg.conf, which means you can't arrange your monitors [01:19] this persists into the user session [01:20] doesn't happen with the other lightdm greeters [01:20] it's probably something to do with mir. does 14.04 use XMir by default for unity? [01:21] its nothing to do with mir [01:21] there's no mir in 14.04 [01:21] i did have a problem with lightdm last week though [01:21] i switched to gdm for a day [01:21] what was the problem? [01:21] i dont know. [01:21] well, lightdm wouldn't start [01:21] or would, sometimes [01:22] hmm.. worked okay for me with the gtk-greeter [01:22] both on intel and nvidia, very inconsistent and I needed to work so just installed gdm and forgot it [01:22] i dont really understand why the greeter makes any difference, i mean lightdm runs the X server [01:23] well no [01:23] lightdm runs its own x server [01:23] AIUI [01:23] ← not an expert [01:23] /var/log/lightdm/ reveals its own xorg log separate from /var/log/Xorg.0.log [01:23] lightdm runs the X server, then it runs the greeter inside it. then the greeter exits and the desktop loads up. same X server [01:23] hm [01:24] i thought they were separate, huh. [01:24] we use this in xubuntu to keep the wallpaper present when the session loads up [01:24] ah, nice. [01:24] it's also why the nvidia and unity=greeter problem persists into the session [01:24] flicker-free stuff? [01:24] yeah [01:24] nice [01:26] lightdm does it's own logging of the X server for the lock screen. that can be implemented as a second X session (although that doesn't work to well and i think all sessions dropped it because of the console kit mess) [01:27] what does consolekit do? [01:27] * diddledan googles [01:27] aah it's deprecated [01:28] in favour of further monoliticating systemd [01:28] monolithicating** [01:28] when you switch to a different VT (ie ctrl-alt-f1) console kit changes the permissions on the audio devices for "security" [01:29] also does a bunch of other stuff [01:29] this means your audio stops playing when the screen locks, if a second X session is used [01:29] bedlington [01:29] nn [01:29] musingly this actually provides no security at all [01:29] nn popey [01:29] it only happens because pulseaudio cooperates with console kit [01:31] a malicious user can open devices and keep access, because linux does not support revoking file descriptors [01:31] so for example you can login, open the webcam, then switch user... and then spy on whoever logs in next [01:31] nice! [01:31] console kit will change the permissions on the device so that you can't open it any more, but you already opened it... [01:31] I tend to nuke consolekit because I don't like it taking up half a screen of top on headless machines / VMs [01:32] does -server even install it? [01:32] it appears so [01:32] yes, because it works with VTs and there are always VTs [01:33] I don't see any on a vm I run [01:33] I tend to get a bit obsessive about keeping a short process list though. I even kill gettys I don't want [01:33] there's a load of kworker [01:34] and ksoftirqd [01:34] i guess actually it is not installed [01:34] and migration and watchdog, but no consolekit [01:34] hm, I wonder why I keep ending up with it [01:36] maybe the cloudimage release includes it where a from-scratch install doesn't [01:36] g'night all, have a good week \o [01:37] nn daftykins [01:37] it appears to be present in http://releases.ubuntu.com/12.04/ubuntu-12.04.4-server-amd64.list [01:38] shauno: but then so is bind9 which afaik isn't installed by default [01:39] and byobu [01:39] right, that's offered up by tasksel at the end of the install [01:40] exactly it's optional so that list tells you squat about what's installed by default [01:41] otoh it's probably on the disk for a reason. it's a bit late for me to try it now, and I can't remember where the seeds are [01:41] but I've certainly never installed it intentionally, because it's frankly braindead on a VM [02:08] hm [02:08] how can i make something simply start when my machines boots up [02:08] say shoutcast for example [02:09] i thought i could just make a basic script launching the shoutcast dameon chuck it in /etc/init.d and do update-rc.d? [02:11] there are multiple ways to do it [02:11] ah [02:12] that isn't one of them though [02:12] do you really want it to run on bootup? [02:12] or when you log in? [02:12] on boot id prefer [02:12] for the basic script approach I believe /etc/rc.local is still supported [02:12] for on login i could use /etc/profile.d no? [02:12] yes. you can also set cron job @reboot i think [02:12] yes @reboot cron jobs also work [02:12] for running things at login use xdg-autostart [02:13] also you can use upstart to do both (if your session supports it) [02:13] the advantage of @reboob cron is that any user with cron access can run a script at reboot under their own userspace [02:13] they don't need root perms is what I mean [02:14] i see upstart? not sure what that means ..seen it mentioned when i was reading some docs [02:14] upstart is a replacement for init [02:14] it's jobs are defined in /etc/init/ [02:15] they're not "standard scripts" however [02:15] ah [02:15] can you not use old init and upstart then? [02:17] the advantage of upstart vs the older method of scripts in /etc/rc?.d/foo is that the latter is purely alphabetically ordered and executes in series whereas upstart jobs can start in parallel and can be fired based on more than just init-level [02:17] runlevel** [02:18] e.g. start the ntp client only after network is fully operational and can reach the outside world [02:18] ya [02:19] it's actually defined more like "when network starts I want ntp client to start" rather than being a limit it's a "as soon as this happens I want that to occur" [02:20] inverted order of control I guess [02:20] each job defined what flags cause it to start and as soon as that flag is waved the job begins [02:21] the flag can be waved by any number of different actors, though, so it makes for really fine-grained control [02:21] is upstart only ubuntu though? [02:22] yes, and it's also going to be dropped at some time in the future (post 14.04) when debian migrates to systemd [02:23] oh [02:23] but for the forseeable future it's staying until systemd is properly tested and integrated by debian [02:23] confusing..so what does say suse use? [02:23] systemd [02:23] ah ok [02:24] everything uses systemd except for slackware, gentoo, ubuntu, and chromeOS [02:24] debian 8 doesn't feature freeze until november(?) so we're not likely to see systemd in ubuntu until 15.04 at the ealiest (IMO - large grain of salt required) [02:24] oh and debian for now [02:24] of those, only ubuntu and chromeOS use upstart [02:24] gentoo uses it's own concoction [02:25] well the same could be said of ubuntu [02:25] I guess slackware still runs initv? [02:25] prolly [02:38] stupid router [02:38] :D [03:46] so now that galaxynexus isn't supported on ubuntu touch is there an unofficial port yet? [03:53] ask popey tomorrow [03:55] willdo [03:56] it looks like cdimage.ubuntu.com is still getting precompiled dailies [03:56] for maguro (gnex) [03:56] also dholbach seemed to be interested in coordinating community efforts [03:57] diddledan: it's not, look at the actual timestamp [03:57] https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg05892.html [03:57] stgraber: from here? http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/current/ [03:58] diddledan: right [03:58] stgraber: looks up-to-date to me [03:58] what do you mean by "actual timestamp" [03:58] diddledan: if you look, all files are from the 24th except for maguro that's from the 22nd [03:58] diddledan: ah no, not that link [03:58] diddledan: that shows you old images from the 20th [03:59] diddledan: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/daily-preinstalled/pending/ for the actual recent one (after maguro was deprecated) [03:59] aah yes [03:59] so you really only stopped 4 days ago? [03:59] or is that just how long it took for the code to bitrot to the point of not building? [04:00] lol [04:01] when i did the galaxysmtd port it took about a month before it was totally broken by ubuntu changes (to the point of not even producing an image), so that would be about right [04:02] ali1234: I'm not sure about the details, though I suspect maguro was removed as a build target of the android package, at which point it caused cdimage to fail to extract the files and everything to get in the current state [04:02] well. theoretically my gnex isn't required for day-to-day usage so I guess I could _try_ to come up with a port myself [04:02] ali1234: cdimage expires files after a week, so I'd expect maguro to be completely gone by then [04:05] is the buildd setup documented anywhere? and the CI train? i.e. could I replicate the infrastructure easily (following a guide)? [04:05] I guess I need to join ubuntu-touch [04:05] # [04:06] that's basically the question dholbach asked on the ML. nobody answered [04:59] stgraber: you've got a nice post on your blog on setting up a touch image server :-) [05:08] fun question: how can I move an entire filesystem to another drive, on an existing machine? [05:09] background: building a server, which comes with a 250gb drive. once this is set up and my raid array is installed and tested, I'd want to move the OS to the raid, and replace the 250 with a 1tb drive [05:10] short of having the whole damn thing running from a USB stick for however long the raid takes to be tested & build, the simplest option I can think of is simply reinstall the entire OS? [05:10] Hornet: it is possible to copy filesystems, either "all content" or *everything* [05:10] Hornet: you'll want to do it offline. either tar it up and copy across, or rsync it across or dd it block-by-block [05:11] ello MartijnVdS [05:11] hm [05:11] or fsarchiver only he used blocks [05:11] he=the [05:11] I suppose if everything's referencing the mount point rather than the uuid, it might be okay with that [05:12] ooh, I not heard of fsarchiver before [05:12] diddledan: http://www.fsarchiver.org/Fsarchiver_vs_partimage [05:12] it's new to me too [05:13] sounds interesting though [05:13] Hornet: no better time to learn ;) [05:28] http://clonezilla.org also interesting [06:48] morning all [06:52] mornin [06:56] another day eh! [07:05] monday :/ [07:21] so.. umm.. the lego movie.. discuss [07:21] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ_JOBCLF-I) [07:22] diddledan: not seen it, but my son and wife loved it [07:22] looks completely insane [07:23] argh, why on ubuntu when you click "restart" after doing a load of updates (on a button that says "restart") does it then pop up another box asking if you want to restart or shutdown?! [07:24] surely it would be simpler to just restart at that point, no?! [07:24] considering the button actually says "restart" [07:25] It's ubuntu being nice to you ;) [07:25] yeah but from a UX standpoint it sucks [07:25] yup [07:25] hey [07:25] morning [07:26] morning mapps [07:26] if you click a button that says "restart" it seems to me it would be a good idea to actually do that [07:27] it's almost as bad as windows UAC: "are you sure you wanted to click that button?" [07:28] diddledan: total +++++ from me! [07:29] contempt: your internet is broken yet again [07:29] sup guys [07:30] y'all ever sleep diddledan ?:P [07:30] mapps: sometimes [07:30] mapps: depends which underwear I'm wearing I guess [07:30] ;] [07:30] I'll sleep tonight [07:34] air enough [07:34] *fair [07:35] just listening to coldplay - fix you live at glasto :D [07:36] diddledan: sleeps every tuesday for 3 hours. [07:36] :P [07:36] lol [07:37] I don't sleep, I regenerate [07:38] hahhah [07:38] I'm a vampire, so I'm ok as well [07:38] gotta decide soon [07:38] if im going back this year [07:38] it's either that or kel'nareem [07:39] the older i get the less i can be bothered with festivals really [07:39] MooDoo: "He's a vampire and he's ok, he sucks all night and he sleeps all day" :D [07:40] lugging stuff there..camping on uncomfortable ground and then lugging it all back [07:40] mapps: and mud [07:40] yep [07:40] and smelly people [07:40] mapps: and portastinkyloo [07:40] i thought it was all fun when i was i guess 20-21 [07:40] im 29 now [07:40] not sure if i can be bothered [07:41] its pretty horrific train from Paddington -> Castle Carey then like a 30min back breaking walk bags /tent/bags full of booze [07:41] to then go to sleep in a field and be uncomfortable [07:42] if you could drive/somehow get right to the campsite itd be different [07:42] but its an absolute killer [07:49] true detective is so good [07:55] true detective? [07:55] mapps: damn has the first ep of that been on? [07:55] diddledan_: new detective show [08:00] morning JamesTait davmor2_ [08:06] oooo freenode still being ddos'd? [08:06] yeah, for like... the last 3 weeks? :P [08:07] jussi: sigh :( best get ready for another day of red [Netsplit] [08:09] MooDoo: :/ [08:13] Morning all [08:14] morning diplo [08:14] Good weekend MooDoo ? [08:15] diplo: yeah not bad thanks, just looking at storage solutions and making my own :) [08:16] MooDoo: what kind of storage solutions? [08:16] jussi: big nas, ever heard of backblaze? [08:16] jussi: just thinking something like this - http://blog.backblaze.com/2013/02/20/180tb-of-good-vibrations-storage-pod-3-0/ [08:17] Storage solutions for work ? I'm guessing at that size :) [08:17] diplo: well no home/friends/potential something in the future ;) [08:18] MooDoo: interesting. [08:18] diplo: got a lot of friends who do photography who want storage off site. [08:18] Just reading the page, I'm guessing you're not going for the 180TB size ? Be rather large and loud and hot [08:19] diplo: no bit extreame for me at the moment, but if it's in a DC does it matter? [08:19] ah yes, you work at heart ? [08:19] diplo: I do, but not for here, personal project [08:19] Yeah but I mean you get low cost hosting ? [08:19] diplo: yeah [08:20] Ah right, I was going to say wouldn't a microserver be anygood with 6 or so 4TB drives but that's better [08:25] open to all suggestions, just looking around at moment :D [08:25] remember to partition each disk into 500GB partitions for maximum efficiency [08:25] then make each one a separate samba share [08:27] MooDoo: have you had a glance at owncloud? (no idea if it is suitable for you, but its being used out there) [08:28] jussi: I'll have a look, thinking about freenas as well [08:29] wow, Nokia, now owned by MS, releases android phones... http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/24/5440498/nokia-x-android-phone-hands-on [08:32] 109€ only for the 5" model [08:33] that's cheap [08:35] yeah, and 89€ for the base, 4" model [09:13] morning boys and girls. [09:15] morning brobostigon [09:15] morning MooDoo [09:18] hi folks, i'm trying to start using google tasks for a bit now, but unity-gtasks-indicator isn't available for 13.10 [09:19] sorry, google-tasks-indicator,, wrong name [09:19] every google shows that as the thing to grab to use it, but no joy here. anyone have a solution? [09:20] I want something that i see on my desktop, my mobile and the fact it's in my email interface is handy, even adding calendar events automatically which then show up on my indicator applet too [09:20] so it seems like a good solution if i can just get the native desktop peice [09:26] Good morning all; happy World Bartender Day! :-D [09:27] JamesTait: cheers! [09:28] Bartender day! [09:28] Good morning peeps :) [09:28] Ill have to go to the bar then! [09:29] * JamesTait feels a disclaimer may have been a good idea. [09:30] hmm, pup eh? [09:30] errr... pub I mean [09:30] need a good wifi pub [09:33] pub beer === BigRedS__ is now known as BigRedS [09:34] A little while ago there was a bug whereby odd lines of text wouldn't render properly (in terminals, Firefox textareas etc.); anyone remember that and/or what a workaround was? [09:35] I'm sure I had it but it's not in the short list of bugs associated with my name on launchpad [09:47] \o [09:48] Goood Morning! [09:48] morning [09:53] good morning to you too :) [09:58] Morning [10:04] morning hoover [10:04] morning hazrpg [10:11] hrm, I didnt think I was supposed to be this energetic on a monday... [10:12] jussi: you shouldn't have gone to the pub this early ;) [10:12] MartijnVdS: hahahah [10:15] these look interesting if you have a mac/iphone/ipad... [10:15] http://lastucase.com/product/lastu-for-macbook-proair/ [10:15] (knightwise Im looking at you :D ) [11:03] Morning all [11:04] morning davmor2 === bigcalm_ is now known as bigcalm === alan_g_ is now known as alan_g === davmor2_ is now known as davmor2 === JamesTai1 is now known as JamesTait [11:32] !ping [11:32] pong! [11:33] Yup, you're still here [11:34] ah well I'm still in two minds over my nas setup lol [11:36] DJones: that's debatable [11:36] DJones: did you pick a laptop? [11:36] I've picked on, just waiting for the chance to get it [11:37] I'm still very pleased with the one I bought. Excited for the 14.04 release but the system is pretty stable as is [11:37] aparrently system 76 do so pretty hot laptop [11:38] s [11:38] This is what I'm looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Laptop-Dusk/dp/B00HR6TXF8/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1393241815&sr=1-1&keywords=y510p [11:39] looks nice [11:45] I just discovered someone's forked xchat [11:45] hexchat is the new name :-p [11:45] hehe [11:45] I havent used anything except quassel for ages... [11:46] c.f. http://hexchat.github.io [11:46] diddledan: but free for both platforms [11:46] its just too ideal for me :) [11:46] MooDoo, at last [11:46] I've debated going back to a irc app rather than irssi [11:46] I really want tiled windows though [11:46] they've put some actual development effor into it besides just staving off bitrot [11:47] I prefer irssi as I can use it at work ssh'd into my vps [11:48] I like point-n-click [11:48] I can never get tiling right in irssi, so I've left it with alt+ [11:49] in related news, however, my workstation is now back on ubuntu! [11:49] woohoo [11:49]