/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/25/#kubuntu-devel.txt

valoriedocumentation day?00:37
* valorie knows nothing of this00:37
=== wgrant_ is now known as wgrant
* ahoneybun looks for link00:56
ahoneybunvalorie: http://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com/2014/02/14/march-2nd-is-ubuntu-documentation-day-in-the-classroom/00:57
valoriesounds like a good way to learn more about the doc system of ubuntu00:58
valorielyz is always awesome00:58
valorieon your question above, yes all the languages should be tested00:59
valoriehowever, i can't offer to help with that01:00
ahoneybunI see01:00
ahoneybunvalorie: though we are slowing getting away from ubuntu's doc system wiki wise01:02
ahoneybunbut I do love the ubuntu help application01:02
* ahoneybun fails to understand how windows cut my 320Gb ext hdd to 32gb01:03
ahoneybungoing to use my moms ubuntu notebook01:05
valorieyes01:13
valorieok, dinner....01:13
kubotu::workspace-bugs:: [1283692] My graphic card seems incompatible with Kubuntu 13.10 @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1283692 (by genetin)02:01
* apachelogger sighs at bug 128359607:22
ubottubug 1283596 in kdepim (Ubuntu) "'Export Kmail Data' function missing dep" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/128359607:22
apacheloggeractually07:23
apacheloggerone really has to wonder what is worse07:23
apacheloggerthe fact that kdepim nowadays basically wants all of mysql client and tools or that one has to do what that bug describes to "export pim data"07:23
apacheloggerhttp://i.imgur.com/C4jVtFw.png07:24
apachelogger...07:24
apacheloggerfwiw, it does not do so in its own, it is me who has to know what exact applications this talks about, and apparently it doesn't actually care whether I actually close the applications07:25
apacheloggerhttp://i.imgur.com/9eValGo.png07:26
apacheloggerso, this is epic http://i.imgur.com/6uuCmAe.png07:27
apacheloggeraborted it said07:27
apacheloggerwhat it meant was continued07:27
* apachelogger silently cries in the channel corner07:27
valorie{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to apachelogger07:43
jussisilly apachelogger, should know channels dont have corners :P07:44
lordievaderGood morning.09:21
Riddellmorning lordievader, up for doing some beta testing this week?09:23
lordievaderRiddell: Yes, think so.09:24
lordievaderHave the beta's landed already?09:25
Riddell05:39 -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Trusty Beta 1] (20140225) has been added09:28
Riddell05:39 -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop i386 [Trusty Beta 1] (20140225) has been added09:28
Riddelllordievader: crack of dawn ↑ :)09:28
lordievaderWhoo, lovely.09:31
* apachelogger zsyncs09:40
apacheloggernow where is my opensuse stick xD09:41
soeebeta ? :O09:44
soeeany idea when this packages get fixed: kde-runtime plasma-scriptengine-javascript ?09:46
* lordievader goes to zsync too09:48
apacheloggersoee: ?09:48
soeeapachelogger: they are stopped when doing upgrade09:49
soeeits like that 2 or more weekd now09:49
apacheloggercan't reproduce09:49
soeehttp://paste.ubuntu.com/6993568/09:50
apacheloggersoee: apt-get install plasma-scriptengine-javascript09:51
soee2 min, removing old kernels09:52
soeeapachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6993579/09:53
apacheloggerapt-cache policy plasma-scriptengine-javascript09:53
soeehttp://paste.ubuntu.com/6993585/09:55
apacheloggerdon't use the experimental ppa09:57
apacheloggeryofel: ^ experimental apparenlty broken09:57
yofelthat's not experimental, but yeah, don't use the trusty pocket of the PPA09:57
* yofel needs to wipe those packages09:57
soeewell im not using experimental :)09:58
yofelsoee: I'll get rid of those packages soon, that should fix your issue at least09:58
soeeyofel: ok, thank you09:58
=== Blizzzek is now known as Blizzz
=== sem_ is now known as Peace-
apacheloggerRiddell, shadeslayer: do you guys see artifacts on oxygengtk scrollbars?11:11
Riddellapachelogger: not using firefox11:13
apacheloggerhttp://wstaw.org/m/2014/02/25/plasma-desktopCO1864.png11:13
yofelnone so far, I'll keep an eye out for it11:13
Riddellno current problems11:13
apacheloggermight be intel related11:14
yofelI'm on intel right now11:15
apacheloggercurious then11:15
apacheloggerfwiw, I also don't see that on my workstation which is like a 2 year old installation11:16
apacheloggerand using nvidia...11:16
shadeslayernope, nothing here11:16
apacheloggerkrita has 3 menu entries11:23
apacheloggerwtf11:23
apacheloggerkirta has 3 menu entires of which 2 are broken11:23
apacheloggerhooray11:23
apacheloggerfile:///usr/share/kde4/apps/kritasketch/kritasketch.qml:20:1: module "org.krita.sketch" is not installed 11:25
apachelogger     import org.krita.sketch 1.0 11:25
apacheloggermeow11:25
apacheloggerRiddell: I think that krita packaging is le flawed11:25
Riddellapachelogger: hmm you could well be right11:29
* Riddell puts calligra update on the day's todo list11:29
Riddellooh new patch for touchpad https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33128511:41
ubottuKDE bug 331285 in daemon "Touchpad kded does not work well with Touchpadenabler from KDE Workspace" [Normal,Confirmed]11:41
shadeslayerapachelogger: oh, so that's why krita didn't start for me ...11:43
Riddellshadeslayer: krita should start11:46
Riddelljust kritasketch and kritagemini that might be missing something11:46
shadeslayerRiddell: I believe all the application entries say krita11:47
shadeslayeror some generic name11:47
apacheloggerkritasketch and kritagemini likely should not be in the krita package11:47
Riddellshadeslayer: where?11:47
apacheloggerthey are different gui incarnations11:47
apacheloggerjust like muon, muon-installer and muon-discover are not in the same package11:48
Riddellyes, I'll fix it11:48
shadeslayerRiddell: they all say "Digital Painting" :)11:49
Riddellshadeslayer: oh right, what would you suggest?11:55
shadeslayerdon't have a suggestion, it was merely an observation since I have no clue what kritagemini and kritasketch do11:55
Riddellsketch is a tablet UI11:55
Riddellgemini switches between the two http://krita.org/item/193-presenting-krita-gemini11:56
shadeslayerI see11:58
apacheloggerask up the stream?12:00
apacheloggerherding cats, flipping cats12:04
apacheloggerjussi, yofel, shadeslayer, valorie, ScottK: note the wiki thread on the mailing list and for those of who you have not replied to the policies thread, please also note that one12:05
apacheloggershadeslayer: also, LTS support time frame reminder12:05
shadeslayerapachelogger: will reply post lunch12:05
ScottKapachelogger: re wiki, I don't care either way.12:05
apacheloggerScottK: please say that in the thread :P12:06
BluesKajHiyas all12:07
apacheloggerhttps://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-qa12:15
apacheloggerthis is going to be much pain12:15
* yofel finally reading the policy12:23
yofel"Software that is unmaitained but kept in the archive must not be patched!" -> I'm not convinced that's a realistic solution to the problem really. While synaptiks was all we had I did have to patch it to keep it working - and I have absolutely no intention of taking up upstream maintenance12:25
Riddellyofel: good point12:25
apacheloggeryofel: synaptiks should not have been kept in the archive12:41
apacheloggerno solution is better than an insanely shitty one12:42
apacheloggerthat drags quality perception down as a whole12:42
yofelnot being able to change your touchpad settings without konsole isn't very user friendly either12:42
apacheloggeralso the random reviewer who notices the shittyness will not mention the excitingly smooth localization support, they will mention the crashy touchpad stuff12:42
yofeland drags down the usability perception if you look at it from that POV12:43
apacheloggeryofel: yes, so someone needs to set up and maintain it12:43
apacheloggerlet me give you another example12:43
apacheloggerk3b12:43
apacheloggerit's unmaintained12:43
apacheloggerand no one "feels" like picking upt12:43
apacheloggerbut everyone feels like patching it12:43
apacheloggerso now you are in a state where k3b gets distro patches, some of those luckily upstream in git, but no release12:44
apacheloggerso since we are not cherrypicking those upstream and/or distro fixes we are getting no fixes12:44
apacheloggerso really, if no one is willing to pickup maintenance, then clearly the application is not as important as we make it out to be and it should be removed12:45
apacheloggerand if it is important enough then surely someone will step up and maintain it12:45
apacheloggerit's a matter of responsibility12:45
apacheloggeryou cannot feel responsible to patch it into not-crashing-on-startup but not feel responsible enough to fix all the other brokeness that comes with bitrot12:46
sgclarkRiddell: kdewebkit i386 symbol patch committed12:49
yofelapachelogger: I think it's a matter of dedication and manpower too... may I understand that 'taking up upstream maintenance' can be done by e.g. ~kubuntu-dev too? (problem: to be approved by whom?)12:51
yofelMy problem really is that finding single person maintainers is hard and leads to a bus-factor=1 situation again12:51
apacheloggeryofel: you need one person who is responsible12:52
apacheloggerbecause technically maintenance is by ~kubuntu-dev is the status quo12:52
apacheloggerand join responsibility clearly does not work as it should12:53
apachelogger*joint12:53
yofelapachelogger: ok, true.12:56
yofelSo lets stay with k3b. In the event that k3b would grow a bug where it would start e.g. writing imaging data to wrong location potentially causing data loss - you would remove it from the archive because there's no maintainer?12:56
apacheloggeryofel: no12:57
apachelogger"Official KDE software is generally every piece of software that has an official VCS on KDE's infrastructure and/or uses KDE's bug tracker. "12:57
apachelogger"Before taking any actions regarding apparently unmaintained official KDE software, KDE should be contacted for more information and opinion gathering (mail to kde-devel or kde-core-devel)."12:57
* Riddell high fives sgclark 12:57
yofelokaaay... take synaptiks then12:57
apacheloggeryofel: yes12:57
Riddellsgclark: uploaded!12:58
yofelbecause the possible risks of other issues outweigh the usability regression?12:58
apacheloggeryofel: because it's not important enough if no maintainer can be found12:59
yofeldo we have a definition of 'important'?13:00
apacheloggerif no one feels responsible for it, then we must assume it is untested, we must assume it is untranslated, we must assume it has the worst possible code quality13:00
apacheloggerbecause effectively no one can attest to any of those13:00
apacheloggerbecause it is not maintained13:00
yofeltrue13:01
apacheloggerthat's the thing... maintenance is not a big effort, it's feeling responsible that the thing has sane quality throughout and making sure that this is actually the case13:02
apacheloggeron a high quality code base that is used by a lot of people maintenance in essence will amount of accepting patches and rolling a release every once in a while13:02
apacheloggerbecause the community at large will produce the patches for you, and the community at large will make sure that the stuff is tested etc.13:03
apacheloggerso the responsibility of a maintainer is to orchestrate the community effort into a release that is of adequate quality13:03
apacheloggermy english is rubbish today :/13:04
apacheloggerENOTENOUGHSLEEP13:04
yofelwell, I get what you mean ^^13:04
yofelapachelogger: again though, do we have a definition of 'important'?13:05
apacheloggerthe definition is: if no one wants to maintain it, it is not important enough :P13:06
yofelThat sounds as subjective as the reason for synaptiks becoming unmaintained was :/13:07
Riddellsynaptiks obviously was important enough because a replacement has been written13:08
yofelapachelogger: ok, I guess I can't really think of a good reason to argue against that. Point taken13:10
sgclarkRiddell: knotifyconfig ready13:15
apacheloggerRiddell: so the question is.. had this replacement not happened sooner if we didn't drag along unmaintained rubbishware?13:15
apacheloggerand in fact, from a KDE at large perspective it's not even a replacement it's a solution (AFAIK we were the only distro actually using synaptiks)13:15
* apachelogger broke his ktp -.-13:21
yofelapachelogger: patch policy: Do I read it right that one is not supposed to add a patch before upstream has at least taken a look at it? What if upstream is slow to respond? Why not test the patch until upstream responded? (ofc. requiring dep3 Forwarded to point the the filed review)13:21
apacheloggeryofel: two reaesons 1) we then forget to remove the patch before a release, making the patch end up in a release, potentially screwing up everything (I mean, look at the qt a11y patch, that came from upstream and still screwed over all of plasma) 2) we are not upstream and any feeling we may have about the correctness or quality of a patch is really a guesstimate, testing does not always help because in certain software changing a relatively 13:25
apacheloggerminor thing could potentially break in the weirdest circumstances (for example in some phonon functions call order is imperative because underneath they do x11 magic)13:25
apacheloggerFWIW, if upstream is too slow to respond one may want to conduct a dead-upstream test xD13:26
yofelhm, what about patches to broken components that are rather critical requirements of something else? (i.e. my FindFreedesktop.cmake patch in cmake which is not getting reviewed because upstream says that file is unmaintained but we need it for kde-workspace)13:27
sgclarkRiddell: kdesignerplugin ready13:28
apacheloggeryofel: upstream must be made to review it? the thing is, the patch must not necessarily go upstream, but upstream needs to be aware and approve the patch of the content as sane13:28
yofelerm, s/FindFreedesktop/FindFreetype/13:28
yofelnot enough coffee13:28
apacheloggeryofel: to that extent, if cmake upstream says it is unmaintained then workspace upstream should be poked about using unmaintained finders13:28
yofelgood point13:29
yofelhm.... something in our power management stack is broken. I cannot hibernate, upower even tells me I cannot hibernate, plasma still offers me to hibernate13:36
yofeldoes someone by chance know an udisks2 replacement for udisks --dump?13:37
Riddellapachelogger: I don't see why it would have happened sooner13:41
yofelhm....13:45
yofelabout our desktop/netbook selection. How does having a cdrom drive or not make a difference here?13:46
yofelif `laptop-detect` && [ $HEIGHT -lt 700 ] && [ $HEIGHT -gt 0 ] && [ -z "$CDROM" ] || [ "$1" = "netbook" ]; then13:46
yofelwasn't the UI mostly about the limited screen size?13:46
sgclarkRiddell: kprintutils ready13:52
Riddellsgclark: uploaded all14:17
sgclarkRiddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6994618/14:21
shadeslayeryofel: fyi you can use udisksctl dump for udisks214:23
yofelshadeslayer: nvm, see my ML post14:23
shadeslayeraha ok14:23
yofelbut thanks, good to know14:23
Riddellsgclark: ignore it I'd say14:28
Riddellit does no harm14:28
sgclarkok14:29
=== rdieter_laptop is now known as rdieter
sgclarkRiddell: kross ready14:48
BluesKajmy cdrom disappeared in lspci and the BIOS after the last upgrade, i saw this last week on a users machine running 13.10, any ideas?14:51
Riddellsgclark: uploaded!14:54
Riddellshadeslayer: so, did sleeping on LTS status help you decide?14:55
shadeslayerNope, but the icecream did14:56
=== serverhamster is now known as alvin
=== alvin is now known as proioxis
ghostcubeanybody can confirm sharing from android phone to kdeconnect is broken in 0.5?14:59
shadeslayerghostcube: how do you mean15:00
ghostcubeyou can send files from your phone to ypur pc through kdeconnect15:00
ghostcubethis worked fine in 0.4.x15:00
ghostcubestoped working in 0.515:00
shadeslayerghostcube: uhm, you could never do that with kdeconnect afaik15:03
ghostcubesure you coukld15:03
shadeslayerI don't see a file transfer plugin15:03
ghostcubejust hold on a file with your finger till send to pops up15:03
ghostcubechoose kdeconnect15:03
shadeslayerahhh15:04
shadeslayerghostcube: works for me15:04
ghostcube-.-15:04
ghostcubeok what android version?15:04
shadeslayer4.3.115:05
ghostcubeand the file is now inside your kde home folder?15:05
shadeslayerit's in ~/Downloads15:05
ghostcubeyep15:05
ghostcubehmm ok doesnt work here, and i dont know what could cause this15:05
ghostcubethere isnt a libkdeconnect 0.5 right?15:09
shadeslayernope15:10
ghostcubehmm ok anything screwed my install then 15:10
ghostcubeok got it15:17
ghostcuberempoving all of the kdeconnect packages purging and then reinstalling fixt it15:17
ghostcube-.-15:17
ghostcubethx shadeslayer for testing15:18
sgclarkRiddell: kunitconversion ready, finishing up t315:21
sgclarkRiddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6994938/15:33
Riddellsgclark: you don't want to install python bytecode15:35
Riddellsgclark: there's slightly fiddly things that are done for installing python modules I think this is just a local program rather than a module15:35
Riddellsee man dh_python3 if you want to investigate but for an easy life just leave it15:37
Riddell15:36 < ervin> flash news: dfaure just informed me that after all the release will be on saturday as planned15:37
Riddellnext kf5 alpha ↑15:37
sgclarkRiddell: I will be here Saturday, as for kapidox leave the lintian errors?15:42
Riddellsgclark: no don't install the .pyc files15:49
Riddellsgclark: point me to your public ssh key and I'll give you access to the new tars15:50
=== sem_ is now known as Peace-
sgclarkRiddell: https://launchpad.net/~scarlett-7/+sshkeys scarlett-laptop15:51
sgclarkRiddell: I now remember why I went the python install route.. http://paste.ubuntu.com/6995103/16:11
Riddellsgclark: mm, lovely, add it to the todo on https://notes.kde.org/p/kubuntu-ninjas-frameworks16:41
sgclarkRiddell: done, moving on for now, will continue research later16:45
Riddellsgclark: you should be able to log into ftpubuntu@depot.kde.org and get them from unstable/frameworks/16:53
Riddellsgclark: do you know how to do them in batch?16:54
sgclarkRiddell: I do not, but willing to learn16:56
Riddellsgclark: trouble is there's no great way, we have kubuntu-automation scripts but they need adapting for frameworks16:56
shadeslayerwait16:56
* Riddell waits16:56
shadeslayerRiddell: http://paste.kde.org/prthavfab16:57
shadeslayermy somewhat hackish script16:57
Riddelljust simplistic, but probably does the job16:58
shadeslayerfirst argument is unstable, second one is the version16:58
shadeslayerRiddell: it does :)16:59
Riddellwhile read package   not a bit of bash I've come accross16:59
Riddellpackage is the filename?16:59
Riddellwhat is read?16:59
shadeslayergood catch xD16:59
shadeslayerpackage is the file list17:00
shadeslayerRiddell: http://paste.kde.org/pos20sjze17:00
shadeslayera bit of python fu to generate the package file17:00
sgclarkSO can I use this? or will I run across permission problems?17:00
soeecan i downgrade package ?17:01
shadeslayer!downgrade > soee17:02
soeeatm we have nvidia-prime 0.5.717:02
ubottusoee, please see my private message17:02
soeeand i would like to downgrade to 0.5.517:02
soeeshadeslayer: this one shouldn't break anything17:02
soeeas 0.5.7 does not work 17:03
soeeand 0.5.5 worked fine17:03
shadeslayeryou've been warned17:03
yofelhm, the automation stuff shouldn't need much adjustments for kf5, I'll look at it17:03
Riddellshadeslayer: what's your second paste?17:03
Riddellyofel++17:03
shadeslayerRiddell: script to generate the package file17:04
shadeslayerso just run that script and redirect output to a file called package17:04
Riddellsgclark: why would you get permissions problems?17:04
shadeslayerRiddell: actually, s/package/kf5-packages-trusty.txt/17:04
sgclarkRiddell: now that I look closer I shouldn't 17:05
shadeslayerRiddell: 'package' stores the line that was read from kf5-packages-trusty.txt17:05
Riddellshadeslayer: but what's the "read" word?17:06
shadeslayerRiddell: http://ss64.com/bash/read.html17:07
Riddellshadeslayer: thanks17:08
=== ronnoc_ is now known as ronnoc
BluesKajhow can an update/upgrade remove a device from the e0fi/bios17:40
BluesKajhow can an update/upgrade remove a device from the efi/bios ?17:41
BluesKajoops sorry for the double post17:41
BluesKajmy cdrom is no longer listed in the bios 17:41
sgclarkRiddell: frameworkintegration ready17:52
RiddellBluesKaj: support in #kubuntu or #ubuntu18:04
Riddellsgclark: awesome!18:04
BluesKajRiddell, this is after an upgrade on 14.04, this morning18:13
BluesKajanyway I posted in ubuntu+1 too18:15
sgclarkRiddell: kunitconversion still needs review18:26
Riddellshadeslayer: this might be interesting for you http://bits.debian.org/2014/02/minidebconf-barcelona-announce.html19:36
Riddellshadeslayer: frameworkthing and kunitconversion uploaded!19:41
Riddellalthough sgclark might be more interested in that ↑19:42
sgclarkRiddell: ty19:47
Riddellsgclark: although you might be less thrilled to learn I just got permission to change back all the soversions to 519:50
Riddellbut good we have the power of scripting :)19:50
sgclarkRiddell: np, would have to be done anyway19:50
Riddellhandy we have these tools to do repetative tasks, I wonder what people did before them19:50
shadeslayerRiddell: yeah it is :)19:59
shadeslayerRiddell: I already knew about it from Munich19:59
=== claydoh_ is now known as claydoh
sgclarkRiddell: kde4support ready21:10
=== PaulW2U is now known as G4MBY
=== Guest68880 is now known as PaulW2U
Riddellsgclark: uploaded!21:31
sgclarkRiddell: getting close with kapidox :)21:31
Riddellsgclark: incase you thought you were nearly done there's some new ones in there, I just pushed to kactivities-kf5 but it's very incomplete needs lots of tidying21:56
Riddellplasma-framework I think I saw too is new21:56
Riddellmight be others21:56
sgclarkRiddell: ok, good news Is I figured out kapidox21:57
Riddellooh?21:57
sgclarkRiddell: running through pbuilder, will be ready for you shortly21:57
sgclarkRiddell: kapidox ready22:06
=== G4MBY is now known as PaulW2U
Riddellthanks sgclark!22:26
macoRiddell: when's the 14.04 release date? that's going to be a LTS, right?22:47
macodeveloper.ubuntu.com: not helpful22:48
macothe wiki doesnt have anything more specific than "april" but over the last few years dates have varied from mid-month to end of the month22:50
PaulW2Umaco: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr22:53
macoPaulW2U: ah ha! thank you!22:54
valorieapachelogger: will do so asap23:15
valorieI've been reading, just not writing23:15

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