[01:59] <xnox> the amount of work and pain we go through to make 0.1 release of anything...
[06:30] <mapps> hey
[06:31] <jussi> morning mapps
[06:32] <mapps> hey whats up..almost weekend! any plans?
[06:33] <mapps> 2 of my lights in my room went and i have no spare bulbs..quite annoying!
[06:39] <jussi> mapps: off to the shop with you
[06:39] <jussi> weekend? whats that?
[06:39] <jussi> :P
[06:40] <jussi> nah, the brother in law is coming over to hang out, we will watch the football together
[06:45] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:46] <jussi> its a MooDoo!
[06:46] <MooDoo> it is indeed.
[06:46] <mapps> morning MooDoo
[06:47] <MooDoo> morning:)
[07:18] <czajkowski> AlanBell: one for you perhaps http://www.eventbrite.com/e/public-sector-hackathon-tickets-10630711745
[08:08] <cocoa117> can tcpdump been used to listen for traffic is not intented for the host it sitting on?
[08:15] <MooDoo> cocoa117: I've found this page, does it help? http://us.generation-nt.com/answer/tcpdump-capturing-traffic-only-external-hosts-help-184065101.html
[08:24] <SuperMatt> cocoa117: only if the traffic is on a cable that hits the machine
[08:24] <jussi> btw, just to beat JamesTait to it... http://imgur.com/F8npXhT :D
[08:24] <MooDoo> lol brill
[08:24] <SuperMatt> I'd like a hug
[08:24] <SuperMatt> don't hug engineers and hug me instead
[08:25] <MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you're not an engineer?
[08:25] <cocoa117> SuperMatt, MooDoo, yes i just realised that the switch could simply direct traffic to specific port rather then broadcast it to all the ports
[08:25] <SuperMatt> if you're using a old fashioned hub then you might be able to read the traffic
[08:26] <MartijnVdS> do those even exist for >10mbit?
[08:26] <cocoa117> SuperMatt, en, it's all managed switch here, so...
[08:26] <SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: probably not
[08:26] <SuperMatt> cocoa117: then no
[08:26] <SuperMatt> you'd have to run tcpdump on a router or something
[08:27] <jussi> disclaimer, I have no idea if that is actually this week, but Im happy with it in anycase :P
[08:33] <DJones> \o/ Laptop ordered, delivery tomorrow :)
[08:35] <MooDoo> DJones: yay, what you go with in the end?
[08:36] <DJones> The Lenovo 8gb, 1920x1080, nvidia graphics, 1TB hdd
[08:36] <MooDoo> nice
[08:36] <DJones> Will be ideal to test 14.04 on
[08:37] <DJones> Decided it wasn't worth paying the extra £150 for the 8gb ssd cache & an extra 8gb ram
[08:38] <MooDoo> well the mem you can probably just get from crucial at half the price
[08:38] <DJones> Yeah probably will be able to
[08:40] <DJones> 2 8gb modules would be £120
[08:40] <MooDoo> not too bad
[08:41] <MooDoo> I re-installed 12.04 LTS last night, 14.04 was crashing far to often lol
[08:41] <MooDoo> I think it's my laptop rather than the software, no errors, just hard locks :(
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> MooDoo: crashing? I don't have that experience?
[08:41] <DJones> It'll be interesting to see how Minecraft on this with nvidia & an i7 compares to current laptop with intel & i3
[08:41] <MartijnVdS> what kind of hardware does it have?
[08:42] <MooDoo> MartijnVdS: just a standard dell laptop, nothing special, I've been getting locks in windows as well, so I doubt it's the software
[08:43] <DJones> When I've crashes on a machine with different os's, it always seems to come down to either faulty memory or a failing hdd
[08:44] <MooDoo> memory possibly, the drive is new
[08:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Neat: http://news.techworld.com/sme/3504377/google-to-have-build-it-yourself-smartphone-prototype-ready-within-weeks/
[08:54] <diplo> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/vehicle-tax-changes
[08:54] <diplo> Anyone read that
[08:54] <diplo> ?
[08:55] <diplo> Don't like this bit 'When selling a vehicle to a new vehicle keeper, the vehicle tax will no longer be transferable. Vehicle tax will end when a vehicle is sold and the new keeper will need to get the vehicle taxed immediately before the vehicle can be used.'
[08:55] <jussi> diplo: well thats kinda crap.
[08:56] <diplo> It is
[08:56] <diplo> Can pay monthly though as of Oct
[08:56] <TheOpenSourcerer> gosh. So do you get a refund for months that won't be used up then?
[08:56] <diplo> I was just chatting withmy mate about that
[08:56] <diplo> I said I'd send my taxdisc back and get a refund and then pass that on to the new owner
[08:57] <TheOpenSourcerer> I've really never understood why they just don't scrap the whole thing and stick a penny or two on fuel (or whatever the right amount is). Would be much fairer: Do more miles you pay more.
[08:58] <diplo> TheOpenSourcerer: I agree, I'm guessing that is how the French and Spanish goverments do it
[08:59] <diplo> Think how much we'd save on vans and staff at the offices :)
[09:00] <DJones> I think the tax discs are a sort of way of forcing people to get mot's & insurance, although they say that its normally check with number plate recognition now rather than by spotting out of date tax discs
[09:00] <diplo> Yeah as of Oct you don't need to display them anymore
[09:01] <bashrc> yes I agree
[09:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> I just bought next 6 month's tax disc on-line. Was not asked for insurance or MoT.
[09:02] <diplo> They each have access to each others DB's now to do quick look ups afaik
[09:02] <diplo> Police can do it whilst out on the road
[09:02] <DJones> TheOpenSourcerer: The website checks with the insurance & DVLA databases before letting you proceed (certainly at the end of may anyway)
[09:02] <bashrc> but I think the online system checks insurance/mot status for that registration number
[09:03] <TheOpenSourcerer> So - in that case there really is no need for charging the road tax in this way any more. Charge everyone a £10 fee or something to register each year, then get the rest on fuel.
[09:04] <diplo> Also they only use something like 10% of road tax to repair roads :/
[09:04] <DJones> The one that frustrates me is having to renew you driving licence every 10 years unless you've got the old style paper green ones
[09:04] <diplo> Just got my renewal yesterday!
[09:05] <diplo> 20 quid if I don't have a passport within the last 5 years ( need to check mine )
[09:06] <DJones> diplo: I renewed mine at the post office because my passport was out of date, cost a bit more, but saved on not having to provide a new photo, they put you in a booth and take the photo, let you sign on a touchpad etc
[09:07] <diplo> Oooh noted, will pop down :)
[09:07] <diplo> ta
[09:12] <DJones> If your passport is in date, you'd be able to do it online, photo & signiture comes from the passport office so is probably the cheapest method
[09:12] <DJones> Post office charges an extra £4.50 but includes the photo's you'd normally have to supply
[09:12] <diplo> yeah going to check over the weekend
[09:13] <hoover> morning folks
[09:14] <MooDoo> morning hoover
[09:18] <ali1234> this is odd. i'm seeing traffic on a webserver from many different hosts, all claim to be ubuntu, and they're all hammering one URL
[09:18] <ali1234> by hammering i mean each IP is reloading the URL about once per second
[09:19] <ali1234> it's still a laughable amount of traffic though
[09:19] <ali1234> and the user agent is blatantly a lie since it never loads images
[09:19] <ali1234> so my question is... why?
[09:29] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:30] <MooDoo> morning
[09:31] <DJones> Its wierd when you read/listen to a book thats been made into a movie and you realise how far from the original storyline the movie is
[09:32] <diplo> Which one DJones ? and yeah happens quite a bit doesn't it :) guess it's hard to convey stuff from words into a film sometimes
[09:33] <DJones> diplo: Robert Heinlen's Starship Troopers, there's some similarities, but not much
[09:33] <MooDoo> isn't that all movies?
[09:33] <DJones> MooDoo: Yep
[09:33] <DJones> Can't believe I hadn't read the original book though
[09:36] <DJones> Its getting wierd towards the end with him meeting up with his father who'd also enlisted
[09:36] <diplo> Not read that yet DJones, must take a looksy
[09:36] <diplo> I watched John Carter and then read the books
[09:37] <foobarry> i'm required to sit through some safety training which i've already completed once. it won't let me skip through to the test , instead forcing me to click through 10 sections. here's the JS frame that blocks it - any suggestions how to skipstraight to test? http://pastebin.com/bcG5cJfN
[09:37] <diplo> A lot of stuff was ok, but they mashed book 1 and 2 into movie 1
[09:37] <DJones> How did they compare, I gave up on the movie after about 45 minutes
[09:38] <diplo> I enjoyed the movie, then again I enjoy most movies as I watch them to enjoy them not to compare them, it was fairly accurate in the most part
[09:38] <diplo> I'd like a second film though but doubt they'll do it as it flopped so hard
[09:38] <JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Tooth Fairy Day! :-D
[09:39] <DJones> Yeah that one didn't exactly do too well
[09:42] <DJones> I normally listen to audiobooks most of the day at work as I'm in an office on my own, can't get interested in listening to music radio, so its either audiobooks or something like radio 4
[09:43] <foobarry> any javascript weenies able to tell me how to frig the url to accept a link to the selftest?
[09:45] <diplo>  if (parent.intCurrentSection > parent.oSections.length+3) {
[09:45] <diplo> Show finishing page, so I'd say see if you can change the CurrentSection
[09:46] <foobarry> by passing a parameter?
[09:46] <diplo> intTrueSection maybe, I'm not great at js but maybe
[10:01] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:06] <bigcalm> Morning davmor2, bit early for you?
[10:07] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[10:07] <davmor2> bigcalm: m-i-l med run at 11 so saves me working over tonight also mean I can just start after the 9:30 call
[10:10] <bigcalm> Ah
[10:10] <bigcalm> Woman Hitler
[10:11] <davmor2> bigcalm: What?
[10:11] <bigcalm> Mother-in-Law
[10:11] <bigcalm> Unless I'm mistaken
[10:12] <jussi> hehe
[10:12] <jussi> oldie but a goody :P
[10:13] <bigcalm> mother in law
[10:13] <bigcalm> -woman = ther i l
[10:13] <bigcalm> woman hitler
[10:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: I wasn't referring to your mother-in-law :)
[10:14] <davmor2> Yeah I got it
[11:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[11:29] <ali1234> with no lamer
[11:29] <ali1234> win real moth
[11:43] <ali1234> i throw an elm
[11:43] <bigcalm> Still going eh?
[11:45] <popey> ooh http://www.ebuyer.com/516960-seagate-600-series-480gb-2-5inch-sata-iii-ssd-st480hm000
[11:46] <bigcalm> Ooo
[11:51] <MooDoo> wow that's cheap
[12:00] <DJones> MTGOX has filed for bankruptcy
[12:01] <DJones> Or bankruptcy protection to be more accurate
[12:03] <davmor2> popey: I love the term imaginationally challenged.  Technically I don't think it is a word, but it is a great description :)
[12:03] <popey> i did write something stronger then thought better of it
[12:06] <MooDoo> DJones: I thought they were opening withdrawals again, is this not the case?
[12:07] <DJones> MooDoo: Looks unlikely, suggestions they've had £210M of bitcoins stolen http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25233230
[12:08] <MooDoo> DJones: but what about peoples whose bc are still there....wow that's a lot of money lost
[12:09] <davmor2> MooDoo: real banks lost more than that trading
[12:09] <MooDoo> I know but if you had lots of them in their you've lost them and that's a lot of money
[12:15] <DJones> MooDoo: I guess if you believe the hype about bitcoin being used by a lot of "shady" characters, you might not want to be the person that nicked the coins from the said "shady" characters
[12:17] <MooDoo> DJones: isn't it untraceable though?
[12:18] <DJones> Thats the theory
[12:18] <DJones> I've just got visions of somebody nicking the kray twins secret stash & how they'd respond
[12:30] <bashrc> bitcoin is a public ledger.  It's the most transparent currency system ever invented
[12:30] <bashrc> if I were a "shady character" I would stay away from it
[12:31] <ali1234> the gox thing doesn't add up. at all
[12:32] <ali1234> i mean it's literally mathematically impossible for their stated explanation to be true
[12:32] <jussi> cream is a wonderful substance :)
[12:32] <bashrc> does bitmessage use sha1 ?
[12:32] <jussi> I think I need to make scones...
[12:32] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z37zw/mt_gox_has_at_least_200k_btc/
[12:33] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: that's not proof of anything either
[12:33] <bashrc> or rather does bitcoin use sha1?
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: That's proof those coins haven't moved since 2011, when Gox used them to prove something
[12:33] <ali1234> MartijnVdS: that does't necessarily mean they have access to them
[12:33] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: the only way for them to lose it, is by losing (access to) the privkeys
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> either by being idiots, or by (government) force
[12:34] <ali1234> my personal theory is that when gox made that transaction to "prove" they controlled the coins, they messed it up, and sent the coins to an address they didn't know the key of
[12:34] <bashrc> i.e. if they use an insecure hash then that could explain a lot of missing or duplicated bitcoins
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> or both :)
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: no, that's not it.
[12:34] <bashrc> alil234: that sounds like a viable hypothesis
[12:34] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: that sounds like Gox incompetence
[12:35] <ali1234> the only explanation offered by gox is that transaction malleability lead to the loss of the coins, however this cannot be true
[12:35] <bashrc> incompetence is a universal
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: sure, but at Gox, it was highly concentrated.
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: if you read its history, and that of the people involved, it's a wonder they stayed up as long as theyd is
[12:35] <MartijnVdS> they did*
[12:36] <ali1234> gox was only ever one guy
[12:36] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: he had a handful of employees I think?
[12:36] <ali1234> contractors with no real access to anything
[12:36] <bashrc> probably one guy with a server in his bedroom
[12:37] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: Starbucks in Tokyo ;)
[12:37] <bashrc> a sushi bar
[12:38] <bashrc> so yes, if Gox was just one guy then screwups are certainly a possibility
[12:38] <ali1234> yeah, the problem is that the given explanation isn't one of the possible ways they could have messed up
[12:38] <ali1234> so if they're lying about that...
[12:39] <bashrc> they're probably lying to avoid fraud charges
[12:40] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: that sounds.. strange
[12:53] <ali1234> hmm... i just thought of something actually
[12:54] <ali1234> it's possible that they could have lost everything through one mutated transaction
[12:55] <ali1234> they put 550,000 in one transaction... then someone withdraws 1btc. so they send 1btc to the guy and 549,000 to their change address. tx gets mutated so their wallet thinks it didn't happen... and then it throws away the change address key
[12:55] <ali1234> that would effectively destroy those 549,000 btc
[12:59] <ali1234> still that's not theft, that's just loss
[13:01] <jussi> but surely there would be systems in place so that every peice is saved somewhere? ie. a very verbose log or so? or were they really that incompetant.
[13:03] <ali1234> wouldn't be the first time someone lost bitcoins by forgetting about the change address
[13:03] <MooDoo> wow canical legal takes an age :)
[13:03] <ali1234> example: you have a paper wallet. you want to spend some of it so you boot a livecd, input the wallet, then send however much. then you reboot. is this okay?
[13:04] <ali1234> if you said "yes" you just made a costly mistake
[13:10] <MooDoo> damn the moths get out?
[13:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Seen this? http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/28/minecraft-movie-mojang-warner
[13:13] <popey> yeah
[13:13] <popey> interestingly i was talking to wifey about it and she went "oh god no!"
[13:13] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[13:14] <popey> she teaches kids (including sam) and she asked them to do a creative writing exercise the other day
[13:14] <popey> she said minecraft is sapping their creativity
[13:14] <MooDoo> I'm a bit peeved with that to be honest.
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> there's a lego movie
[13:14] <popey> she was reviewing them and they were all (boys) wrote stories about creepers and swords and stuff
[13:14] <popey> none of them had an original thought of their own
[13:14] <TheOpenSourcerer> Gosh.
[13:14] <MooDoo> I watch another guy who does movies and he did a kickstarter campaign to get minecraft into a movie and notch blocked it....
[13:15] <popey> but the girls (who didnt play minecraft) wrote new stories about fairies and stuff
[13:15] <popey> MooDoo: yes, because he didnt ask first
[13:15] <popey> bit dumb really
[13:15] <ali1234> lol
[13:15] <MooDoo> popey: i really don't believe he didn't ask, surely someone can't be that dumb or am I being really naive?
[13:15] <ali1234> because fairies are totally original right?
[13:15] <popey> MooDoo: yes, he said so
[13:15] <popey> ali1234: sure, i was using that as an example, but the girls came up with different stuff
[13:16] <MooDoo> raaaaaaa what a <insert expletive here]
[13:16] <popey> the boys _all_ came up with minecraft
[13:16] <ali1234> i don't see a problem
[13:16] <ali1234> minecraft doesn't exactly have a plot
[13:17] <ali1234> i don't see how they can make a movie out of it personally
[13:17] <ali1234> i think what this shows is a lack of role models for boys
[13:17] <popey> unless it's tron-like
[13:17] <popey> getting sucked into the block world or something
[13:17] <popey> thats my bet
[13:17] <ali1234> that would suck :/
[13:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> A very big aircraft: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26372277
[13:18] <popey> has to fight to get out.. meets other people who got sucked in... form a team, overcome zombies.. etc
[13:18] <popey> yeah, bet that's it
[13:19] <ali1234> TheOpenSourcerer: it looks like a giant flying butt
[13:19] <MooDoo> well I guess we'll soon all see
[13:19] <ali1234> cannot be unseen
[13:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> They interviewed the bloke from Iron Maiden on Radio 4 this morning, who is a backer - he said it's like Thunderbird 2 :-D
[13:20] <ali1234> yes i heard that. i can see the resemblance
[13:20] <ali1234> but still...
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Some juicy quotes from Bruce Dickinson on this one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26337673 "... it can plonk 50 tonnes anywhere in the world you like, which is 50 times more than a helicopter."
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> "We'll fly over the Amazon at 20ft, over some of the world's greatest cities and stream the whole thing on the internet."
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that looks awesome!
[13:29] <popey> aren't we short of helium?
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno. Are we?
[13:30] <bigcalm> That's what I was about to say
[13:30] <bigcalm> Yes
[13:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Can't we make it?
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: just use hydrogen instead ;)
[13:30] <popey> WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: we could, but it would take forever :)
[13:31] <ali1234> we're short of lab-grade helium
[13:31] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: yeah, i saw a story about people complaining that we're low on helium, because it .. well, floats away
[13:31] <popey> ah
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Helium is the second lightest element and is the second most abundant element in the observable universe,  being present at about 24% of the total elemental mass, which is more  than 12 times the mass of all the heavier elements combined. "
[13:31] <ali1234> they don't use that in balloons and airships though
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium
[13:31] <awilkins> Yeah, it may be very abundant in the universe
[13:31] <awilkins> But it's mostly concentrated in stars
[13:31] <popey> like kylie?
[13:31] <awilkins> And gas giants
[13:31] <popey> oh, like davmor2
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> ha
[13:32] <bigcalm> :D
[13:32] <awilkins> Helium prices are stupidly low because the USA decided to treat it's strategic helium reserve as a cash cow
[13:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh "Helium is a finite resource and is one of the only elements with escape  velocity, meaning that once released into the atmosphere, it escapes  into space."
[13:33] <awilkins> When it's gone, all sorts of helium applications will be much more expensive
[13:33] <bigcalm> This is why we didn't have helium balloons at our wedding :(
[13:33] <awilkins> Only way we get new helium on earth is through radioactive decay
[13:34] <awilkins> Trapped in rocks, so natural gas
[13:34] <awilkins> Even if we manage to crack boron-proton fusion, the amount of helium generated from it would be tiny compared to industrial demands
[13:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> love it "The vast majority of helium was formed by Big Bang nucleosynthesis one to three minutes after the Big Bang. "
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> So all we need is to go into space with a big tank, and some kind of helium trap
[13:35] <bigcalm> That's a long time after
[13:35] <awilkins> Mmhmm. Only other "realistic" source of helium for us is to mine Jupiter for it I think
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: isn't that mostly hydrogen?
[13:36] <awilkins> MartijnVdS, Yeah, as soon as I said it I thought I may well be wrong
[13:36] <MartijnVdS> awilkins: though.. I don't care either way -- mining Jupiter sounds like an amazing way to give the economy a boost :)
[13:36] <awilkins> If there is helium in Jupiter or the Sun, it's probably in the middle
[13:37] <awilkins> So, back to proton-boron fusion and being *really* careful with the stocks we've got
[13:37] <awilkins> ie - not using it for kiddy balloons
[13:37] <ali1234> well the other day i saw some thing claiming a space elevator is possible
[13:37] <ali1234> if that's possible we can just make vacuum airships
[13:37] <awilkins> Which in this market-driven world, would mean the US ceasing their selloff of their helium reserve, which won't happen because pork.
[13:38] <awilkins> ali1234, Yeah, even if we can make encapsulated vacuum spheres, there are still many applications for helium
[13:40] <shauno> why are we worried about jupiter's economy?
[13:40] <awilkins> It's all based on the giant diamond in the middle
[13:41] <awilkins> De Beers are going to annex Jupiter to stop it flooding the market and causing a price crash of an almost worthless allotrope of carbon
[13:41] <neuro> ALL THESE WORLDS
[13:41] <neuro> ARE YOURS EXCEPT
[13:41] <neuro> EUROPA
[13:41] <neuro> ATTEMPT NO LANDING
[13:41] <neuro> THERE
[13:41] <neuro> USE THEM TOGETHER
[13:41] <neuro> USE THEM IN PEACE
[13:42] <shauno> but europa looks kinda neat :(
[13:42] <brobostigon> loads of ice,
[13:43] <shauno> and water.  and oxygen ..
[13:43] <brobostigon> water contains oxygen,
[13:43] <shauno> well, atmospheric oxygen.  which is interesting because breathing water has been proven to be bad for your health
[13:44] <awilkins> Oxygen was one of the original toxic byproducts of metabolism :-)
[13:45] <awilkins> We think of it as this life-giving thing but we're descended from the life forms that evolved to utilise what the others were releasing as a waste product...
[13:46] <shauno> that explains dominos pizza :/
[13:48] <shauno> I'd love to visit europa just to take pictures.  it has a surprisingly tidy orbit, so jupiter should just hang in one place in the sky, constantly.  and that's gotta be worth seeing
[13:49] <awilkins> I saw someone review Gravity and say that if you loved the idea of space, it would put you off
[13:49] <davmor2> popey: harsh dude, harsh
[13:49] <awilkins> It really captured the scary potential for death stuff
[13:50] <awilkins> And I still love the idea of space
[13:51] <shauno> the scariest part of Gravity was being confronted with the idea of staring death in the face as a given, and then having to wait half a week for it to arrive.  The space program's history so far has led us to the much more comfortable "so fast you'll never see it coming"
[13:51]  * popey hugs davmor2 
[13:52]  * awilkins hears a squeak
[13:54]  * davmor2 wonders how big popey is if he can hug a gas giant :P
[14:07] <foobarry> gas giant = johnny vegas?
[14:09] <shauno> there's still a lot of perfectly boring stuff that space is just begging for though.  eg, I really want to see them put a radiotelescope on the far side of the moon
[14:11] <ali1234> that plan for a space solar plant with microwave beaming was in the news again the other day
[14:11] <shauno> the radio blackout that the movies like to overhype would make it the best location "in the world"  (along with the lack of atmosphere, etc)
[14:18] <awilkins> Imagine a world so prosperous that which of the insanely high-tech energy providers you use is a lifestyle choice...
[14:18] <awilkins> "Hey, yeah, man, I use the Giant Solar Collector because it's like, eco-friendly, man."
[14:29] <shauno> I like to imagine the 'oops' when the 'giant solar collector' drifts
[14:35] <shauno> it seems if we break the win7 upgrade process at work, we get new laptops.  I must figure out how this is done
[14:40] <MooDoo> shauno: switch it off halfway through ;)
[14:41] <shauno> that might be doable, it's not too far from home
[14:41] <shauno> we have some system where on the date they tell you, you leave your machine turned on but logged out when you come home.  and when you arrive the next morning it's all done
[14:42] <shauno> there's been a few people now where they've arrived to find the screen telling them "tada!", but when it reboots, it's still XP
[14:42] <shauno> when this happens, a small smurf shows up surprisingly quickly and drops off a 'hp elitebook', and whisks the failed upgrade away
[14:44] <shauno> I actually have no problems with my currently issued machine, but .. who can say no to new laptops?
[14:50] <foobarry> what's the command that replaced mkfile?
[14:51] <foobarry> dd i suppose
[14:52] <MooDoo> easiest way to make a big file
[14:53] <foobarry> yeah, i liked mkfile:(
[14:53] <foobarry> also scp sucks that it copies a file when you leave off the trailing :
[14:53] <foobarry> scp massivefile bob@otherhost:
[14:53] <foobarry> leave off colon , you get 2 massive files
[14:55] <shauno> the command-line has always been very bad at reading minds.  it's suggested you don't leave off the trailing :  ;)
[14:55] <foobarry> it should error
[14:55] <foobarry> cos i'm doing scp
[14:55] <foobarry> why would i scp within my own filesystem?
[14:56] <shauno> I think it makes more sense than it does as it's told
[14:58] <shauno> AlanBell: curious, how's the rpi cluster coming along?
[15:25] <shauno> foobarry: interesting way to create a big file, fallocate -l sizeG filename
[15:26] <shauno> on mine, dd took about a minute to create a 10G file, fallocate took 0.3 seconds
[15:27] <shauno> the tradeoff is that it just marks the space as used on the filesystem, it makes no attempts to put anything pretty in the file
[15:57] <bigcalm> git is confusing me
[15:57] <bigcalm> A config file in the master branch has a line in it
[15:57] <bigcalm> The same config file in the test branch lacks that line
[15:58] <bigcalm> merging the master branch into the test branch results in "already up-to-date"
[15:58] <bigcalm> I'm really rather confused
[16:26] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: know anything about Rackspace's backup mounts?
[16:26] <bigcalm> root@db:~# mount | grep backup
[16:26] <bigcalm> /dev/xvdb1 on /mnt/backup type ext3 (rw,noatime,_netdev)
[16:26] <bigcalm> root@db:~# touch /mnt/backup/a
[16:27] <bigcalm> touch: cannot touch `/mnt/backup/a': Read-only file system
[16:27] <bigcalm> Doesn't really make much sense to me. Isn't mount saying that it's read/write?
[16:50] <AlanBell> hi shauno, I have been a bit overtaken by events and stuff from all directions recently, I had problems with a bunch of USB leads I got for it, but I have a new set (less cheap, more cheerful) waiting for me to pick up at the post office
[17:02] <SuperMatt> bigcalm: no, not yet
[17:02] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: fair enough :)
[17:02] <bigcalm> I've raised a ticket
[17:02] <SuperMatt> also, I'm really very busy so I don't get to pop my head in here
[17:02] <SuperMatt> cool
[17:03] <SuperMatt> got number?
[17:03] <bigcalm> 140228-06035
[17:03] <SuperMatt> ooh core
[17:03] <SuperMatt> yup, that's with my team
[17:04] <bigcalm> It required me to select a device, but the only device I could select is the firewall. So I don't know if it'll get to the right team or not :)
[17:04] <SuperMatt> well it's come to my team
[17:05] <SuperMatt> but you might not get a response until 2nd shift take over
[17:05] <SuperMatt> we've been mega busy
[17:05] <SuperMatt> but we do want to fanatically support you
[17:05] <bigcalm> You know I don't expect support in here ;) I only ask in here on the off chance you might know off the top of your head :)
[17:05] <SuperMatt> imagine this is the face I'm pulling:  11313511       /var/lib/php/session
[17:06] <SuperMatt> oops
[17:06] <SuperMatt> http://djwanker.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/54-wee-jimmy.jpg
[17:06] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:06] <SuperMatt> this face
[17:06]  * bigcalm shudders
[17:07] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: have you always been like that or did RackSpace do it to you?
[17:10] <SuperMatt> I've always been this way
[17:11] <SuperMatt> right, I've won most tickets touched today
[17:11] <SuperMatt> whoop
[17:11] <daftykins> what a promising looking schoolboy.
[17:11] <SuperMatt> D:
[17:11] <SuperMatt> taking it too far now
[17:11] <bigcalm> Heh
[17:12] <daftykins> ugh what would be the proper way of running nautilus as root briefly? i was used to "gksudo <appname>" but it seems gksudo isn't even on as default anymore
[17:13] <daftykins> ah yeah just needs gksu installed
[17:13] <daftykins> what an odd default 0o
[17:15] <arsen> hi daftykins  :)
[17:16] <daftykins> hi sir o/
[17:16] <daftykins> what's new?
[17:16] <arsen> ntm! off work today
[17:16] <daftykins> \o/
[17:16] <arsen> looking at getting a new dedi server - trying to plan out how im going to spin up all the vhosts and migrate teh dns etc :<
[17:17] <arsen> dare i say it - contemplating something like ispconfig to make my life easier
[17:20] <arsen> probably get a quadcore box with 16gig ram and put a hypervisor on it methinks.
[17:20] <NET||abuse> hi folks, anyone know of a good wireless mouse,, i have a logitech one which has the 2 scroll wheels and other buttons besides, but it doesn't offer middle click by default, i haven't found a good way to add it either, i need my easy window resizing
[17:20] <bigcalm> NET||abuse: most MS mice are good
[17:20] <daftykins> fancy fancy!
[17:20] <arsen> kimsufi got them back on the cheap again!
[17:20] <daftykins> arsen: giving in going easy :'(
[17:21] <NET||abuse> i have a grand ol dell out of the box mouse from an office somewhere, it has the basics, but i would love a nice solution for the road, blue tooth or other rf setup, maybe usb charging possibility
[17:21] <arsen> well - i just have so mcuh to do to migrate, about 9 websites, 4 domains worth of emails etc, smtp/pop/imap/dovecot/postfix etcetc, then al lthe random niche webapps i use :D
[17:22] <arsen> least i'll get the latest roundcube
[17:24] <arsen> gotta love linux and being a sysadmin, after years you finally feel like you're getting somewhere and it just takes one "build a simple webserver with a few domains" to remind you - you know nothing :D
[17:24] <bigcalm> Oh, haven't used roundcube for a while. Has it got a plugin system yet?
[17:24] <arsen> i believe so - bigcalm !
[17:25] <arsen> i had a look at the latest version a few weeks ago and it made me jealous :< looks nice.
[17:25] <arsen> i'm not a fan of gmail so always looking for a decent alternative.
[17:25] <bigcalm> mailpile.is
[17:26] <arsen> oooh o_O
[17:26] <popey> unfinished, python 2.7...
[17:28] <arsen> any suggestions - popey ?:)
[17:28] <popey> heh, no
[17:30] <bigcalm> Outlook!
[17:31] <arsen> :D
[17:31] <arsen> my company moved to gmail globally, pita.
[17:31] <daftykins> i love gapps ;x
[17:37] <NET||abuse> hmm, trying to launch the portal 2 beta, since it's out now.... wont launch :(
[17:47] <arsen> hmm i wonder why its py2.7
[17:47] <arsen> mailpile looks nice though.
[17:50] <bashrc> yes, although it's only in alpha
[17:51] <shauno> AlanBell: sounds like fun :)  I was just reminded because I knocked over a stack of sd cards, which has to be quite an odd "and thought of you"
[17:51] <bigcalm> Yay
[17:51] <bigcalm> !ping
[17:51] <daftykins> shauno: XD
[17:51] <daftykins> shauno: was it like 52-card-pick-up ?
[17:52] <shauno> a lot less than 52, but annoying because I insist on keeping them ordered by size :(
[17:54] <daftykins> shauno: perhaps you need a till-drawer style arrangement :>
[17:54] <mapps> afternoon folks
[17:54] <daftykins> heya
[17:54] <mapps> cor i slept or longer than planned
[17:54] <mapps> 8am-5;30
[17:54] <mapps> :D
[17:55] <daftykins> lol i was part way through a help with some guy in #ubuntu but he's netsplit now and left with a borked system
[17:55] <mapps> lol
[17:55] <mapps> whats happened to it
[17:55] <daftykins> only a VM though so no biggy
[17:55] <daftykins> we were just partway through partition resizing
[17:55] <mapps> aha
[17:55] <shauno> VMs are awesome. snapshot, guess, restore snapshot, guess again ..
[17:56] <daftykins> :D
[17:57] <mapps> i find it funny all this talk of how desktop and laptop sales are dropping daily..and tablets taking over..i couldnt replace my daily life with a tablet only
[17:58] <mapps> people that use tablets only musnt do anything other than browse/use a few apps imo
[17:58] <bigcalm> Working nights?
[17:58] <shauno> we're probably a very biased subset there.  the number of people who could probably replace their PC usage with facebook & skype is properly a lot more terrifying than you'd think
[17:59] <arsen> i tried having an ipad in place of a laptop
[17:59] <arsen> sold it at xmas - waiting on a laptop to come out that sparks my interest :p
[17:59] <mapps> yea that what i mean shauno  they must just use facebook/twitter and the odd email
[17:59] <mapps> and nver actually do anyhing substantial..clearly no programming
[18:00] <mapps> no gfx..so just time waste
[18:01] <shauno> or they just have different ideas of what's "substantial".  my family are spread half way across the planet, so for my mother, skype is a lot more substantial than programming
[18:02] <mapps> a laptop can do skype tho
[18:02] <mapps> !
[18:03] <arsen> twice as heavy though :)
[18:03] <arsen> id recommend a tablet for my mum, and dad - but not my techy mates..
[18:04] <shauno> my ipad actually does skype better than my laptop :/  for some reason it turns my laptop into a space heater.  for someone who likes to pace / do laps of the house whilst on the phone, that's a huge battery difference
[18:05] <shauno> (but then, it's a mac.  looking at it funny turns it into a space heater)
[18:06] <arsen> interestingly, im waiting on the new mac air
[18:06] <arsen> i have about 1k to spend for a work laptop atm too and im finding it hard to pick something i like the idea of other than a mac :/
[18:08] <mapps> hm id lik a mac air but the displays are too small whats the bigegst?
[18:08] <arsen> 13 atm
[18:08] <arsen> im concerned thats too big for me :x
[18:08] <arsen> had 11inch before, i think the new one is due to be 12"
[18:36] <MooDoo> evening
[18:37] <daftykins> arsen: if only Sony still made such fine ultras
[18:37] <daftykins> arsen: probably going to go Lenovo X1 Carbon for the boss chap next!
[18:48] <daubers> Evening
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> \o
[18:57] <arsen> yeah i was looking at that
[18:57] <arsen> they seem pricey though?
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> weren't the new lenovos worse than the previous ones?
[18:58] <arsen> seems like theres some gripes from hardcore oldworld thinkpad fans
[18:59] <arsen> £1500 seems a bit much though
[19:01] <arsen> it actually makes a macbook air look cheap.
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/raspberry-pi-marks-2nd-birthday-with-plan-for-open-source-graphics-driver/
[19:29] <arsen> oooh
[19:29] <arsen> i wub my pi, so helpful having a low power device in the house i can get to remotely :)
[19:34] <directhex> MartijnVdS, the keyboard on the new x1 carbon is dreadful
[19:34] <MartijnVdS> directhex: tell daftykins :)
[19:36] <BigRedS> Is that the one with page-up in place of caps lock or something?
[19:37] <directhex> yes
[19:37] <directhex> and no real F keys
[19:40] <BigRedS> IIRC the photo on the lenovo site doesn't have those
[19:40] <BigRedS> is it not an option or something?
[19:41] <directhex> nope. the only keyboard on the 2014 x1 carbon
[19:42] <directhex> http://www.lenovo.com/images/gallery/1060x596/lenovo-laptop-thinkpad-x1-carbon-2-keyboard-3.jpg
[19:56] <daftykins> directhex: have you got one?
[19:59] <daftykins> also that's a US keyboard so meh
[20:00] <daftykins> oh lawd what are home and end doing there! XD
[20:03] <ali1234> !gksu
[20:04] <ali1234> this factoid needs updating
[20:04] <daftykins> what's the deal with that then?
[20:04] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/284306/why-is-gksu-no-longer-installed-by-default
[20:05] <directhex> daftykins, i haven't had the budget to try any 2014 models
[20:06] <daftykins> directhex: they seem to be the only mobile broadband laptops of a decent size and quality for my client
[20:06] <daftykins> i'm not aware of any others
[20:09] <shauno> meh @ home/end, I don't use them .. I'd be more worried about how ~ got *there*
[20:10] <daftykins> US layout so not easy to comment i think
[20:10] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/9no8i334jemxaxv/IMG-20140228-WA0003.jpg
[20:10] <daftykins> that's my Friday night sorted.
[20:10] <shauno> putting ~ with right-ctrl makes no sense on any layout
[20:11] <daftykins> them and their silly elongated right-shift and single height enter
[20:11] <daftykins> *shakes fist*
[20:13] <MartijnVdS> "But our designer said this layout had better feng-shui properties"
[20:13] <daftykins> ali1234: pretty horrific move :( no more assisting new users in #ubuntu with graphical file management, ho-hum
[20:14] <arsen> whattt where's the F keys?!
[20:14] <daftykins> it's an LCD display that cycles through different modes
[20:14] <daftykins> you keep hitting the far left to cycle through
[20:14] <arsen> eugh
[20:14] <arsen> sounds terrible
[20:14] <arsen> i use F keys for everything :<
[20:15] <daftykins> *shrug* no Windows clients i know likely use any one
[20:15] <arsen> i need to buy something portable for work for sysadmin duties and travel
[20:15] <arsen> and later in the year im gona get the new Air if apple dont ruin it.
[20:15] <MartijnVdS> arsen: xps13
[20:16] <shauno> I stopped using F-keys on windows when Lotus decided that F5 would be instaquit.
[20:16] <arsen> i cant help be drawn to ultrabooks for weight/battery
[20:16] <MartijnVdS> shauno: "boss key" 8-)
[20:16] <shauno> I mean Lotus Notes lol .. of all things shouldn't have a boss key
[20:17] <shauno> it should have a "hurt anyone who thinks that Lotus is a good idea" key :|
[20:17] <daftykins> that could be tough to implement
[20:18] <arsen> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-13-9333/pd?c=uk&cs=ukdhs1&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn  - this one? :o
[20:18] <daftykins> need some kind of roaming robot with a stabby/pokey weapon...
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think it might be similar to http://bash.org/?4281
[20:18] <daftykins> aww no diddledan
[20:18] <MartijnVdS> whoa.. google results look all funky
[20:18] <daftykins> MartijnVdS: indeed!
[20:18] <shauno> daftykins: as long as only IBM sells said robot, I think they'd be game for it
[20:19] <arsen> is the xps 13 the one that's happy running ubuntu?:o
[20:20] <shauno> odd question; if google own motorola, why do moto phones still require root/cyanogenmod to restore features available in stock android?
[20:20] <daftykins> didn't Lenovo just buy motorola's mobile arm?
[20:21] <arsen> owned. own doesnt mean -is the same as-
[20:21] <shauno> I'd assume owned means 'gets a decent say in the matter'
[20:23] <shauno> trying to find a phone for a friend, and just think it's a little strange that we keep coming back to cyanogenmod; apparently broken-out-of-the-box is normal.  kinda disappointing
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> shauno: get a nexus ;)
[20:24] <daftykins> ^
[20:24] <daftykins> shauno: does it need to be budget?
[20:24] <daftykins> i've heard good things about the low-end moto G2 i think it is?
[20:24] <shauno> ideally, cheaper than an iphone, else buying a broken phone when she could have got a working one seems stupid
[20:26] <daftykins> well iPhones don't really have a cost given people are all contract slaves up there eh? :)
[20:27] <shauno> tried the moto-G, it's on the list of "if we have to give up and root it"
[20:28] <daftykins> :)
[20:28] <daftykins> Nexus 5 it is then
[20:29] <shauno> hm, it does appear to have all its locales intact
[20:31] <shauno> oh, last question, honestly; motorola claim cyanogenmod invalidates your warranty; is this enforceable in the EU?
[20:35] <daftykins> pass
[20:37] <shauno> (I'm trying not to sound like a rant, just never thought getting a full set of locales would be a minefield)
[20:42] <daftykins> i'm not even sure what that means?
[20:42] <daftykins> input languages?
[20:44] <shauno> exactly
[20:45] <shauno> eg, the UK firmware for the moto-G ships 15 languages, the 'global' firmware ships 4
[20:45] <shauno> hazrpg pointed me to somewhere you can download the google keyboard (?) which claims 25, but doesn't list them
[20:47] <daftykins> ah
[20:48] <shauno> I'm assuming 'global' means 'south america' and there's other options I haven't discovered yet
[20:49] <shauno> but I'm trying to avoid a situation where we buy a phone on the grounds that it "might work"
[20:50] <shauno> mostly, it's just very confusing coming from the land of "you want options?  pick a colour!"
[20:50] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Nexus 5. comes with something like 30 languages?
[20:52] <shauno> yeah, this one's starting to look like more of an option.  wasn't initially aware that half the price meant half the firmware
[20:52] <shauno> and it seems I can get that one here now, which is a plus
[20:54] <daftykins> yeah Google even let Guernsey buy devices now!
[20:54] <daftykins> can't get VAT back mind.
[20:57] <shauno> lol, you and your VAT ..
[21:10] <daftykins> shauno: ;D
[22:30] <mapps> ;]
[22:32] <daftykins> heyup
[23:31] <arc__> hi everyone
[23:32] <arc__> i have a Q that need a A where is the apache www files kept ?
[23:32] <arc__> i tryed /usr/local/src/apache_xxxxx but not luck
[23:33] <shauno> I'm not clear what you're looking for?
[23:33] <daftykins> the web root?
[23:34] <shauno> you should find everything in /var/ww and /etc/apache, but asking about /usr/local/src makes me think the question's not as clear as it seems
[23:34] <shauno> er, /var/www
[23:37] <xarc_> sorry about that
[23:38] <xarc_> am i asking in the wrong place i have not been on the irc since long ago :)
[23:39] <xarc_> maybe i will try later not at 23:40
[23:40] <xarc_> thank you, all good work
[23:51] <shauno> downside of humble bundles linking straight to steam .. I no longer have any idea what most the stuff in my steam library is
[23:52] <daftykins> :)
[23:52] <daftykins> i kinda need to unsubscribe from humble
[23:57] <shauno> 11 wasn't bad, I don't think I had any dupes