[00:04] <ochosi> GridCube: i'm about to switch off now, i presume it'll take a while longer till it's tested
[00:04] <ochosi> just ping me with the result and i'll read it tomorrow
[00:04] <ochosi> also, if it doesn't work, this would be the alternative fix: http://dpaste.com/1667584/
[00:05] <GridCube> ochosi, so i just need to get the ppa and update?
[00:05] <ochosi> GridCube: yup, update shimmer-themes, maybe restart after that to be sure, then check the greeter
[00:05] <GridCube> (if the problem presents in this test machine now ofcourse)
[00:05] <ochosi> yup
[00:05] <ochosi> well i'd suppose it should, if it did on the other machine
[00:06] <ochosi> i don't think it's *that* random
[00:06] <ochosi> (at least i hope)
[00:06] <GridCube> ok, ill test it once i get the iso
[00:07] <ochosi> thanks!
[00:09] <ochosi> night everyone
[00:10] <slickymaster> nighty ochosi 
[01:11] <GridCube> what is an "avahi service discovery"?
[01:22] <GridCube> ochosi, the error presented in the test box, then after adding the ppa and upgrading it fixed
[01:28] <GridCube> gah :(
[01:28] <GridCube> there is no way to use mugshot
[01:29] <GridCube> shouldnt usc be in the favourites of the menu?
[01:39] <GridCube> what does this means? http://goput.it/dtop.png
[01:41] <Unit193> Do you ever use mycomputer.local?  If not, it means nothing.
[01:41] <GridCube> no, its the very first time i see this
[01:41] <GridCube> but it pop up ever time i log in in the vm
[04:46] <bluesabre> if somebody sees Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.1
[05:46] <pleia2> Noskcaj: not sure if you saw: 20:46:38 < bluesabre> if somebody sees Noskcaj: https://launchpad.net/catfish-search/1.0/1.0.1
[05:46] <Noskcaj> bluesabre sent me an email about it, thanks though
[05:47] <pleia2> ok good :)
[07:20] <elfy> ochosi: what do you want me to do with greybird? git or ppa
[07:36] <elfy> ochosi: lightdm greeter settings appears to work :)
[07:57] <elfy> ochosi: ok - so I assumed you wanted me to grab greybird from git and use that - so did
[07:57] <elfy> I see the same thing with the password error - very faint message
[08:00] <ochosi> hey elfy 
[08:00] <brainwash> elfy: did you replace the greybird folder in /usr/share/themes/ ?
[08:00] <elfy> brainwash: no - I moved the new one in there, renamed, and then used it 
[08:02] <brainwash> strange
[08:02] <brainwash> git version should look fine
[08:03] <elfy> you can see it says something - it's just very faint 
[08:04] <brainwash> can you check /etc/lightdm/lightdm-gtk-greeter.conf please?
[08:04] <elfy> for what
[08:04] <brainwash> and see if the new greybird theme folder is being used?
[08:04] <ochosi> well the easiest thing would've been to add the shimmer daily PPA
[08:04] <ochosi> upgrade shimmer-themes, restart, check the greeter
[08:05] <elfy> couldn't find the ppa :)
[08:05] <ochosi> lmgtfy
[08:05] <ochosi> https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/daily/
[08:05] <elfy> brainwash: it'll just say greybird - because the old greybird is called something else :p
[08:06] <brainwash> so you've renamed the old folder, ok :)
[08:10] <elfy> ochosi: ok - not sure what was going on there - the ppa one is completely readable here :)
[08:10] <ochosi> elfy: that just means you messed up something with using the git version, that's all
[08:10] <elfy> entirely probable that time of the morning :)
[08:10] <ochosi> anyway, makes me happy cause it means there is nothing i have to do other than wait for the next upload of shimmer-themes
[08:11] <elfy> yep
[08:32] <ochosi> Noskcaj: while xubuntu-artwork still hasn't been updated/uploaded by anyone, i guess it's fine if i refresh the icons from github one more time, right?
[08:32] <Noskcaj> yep. I'll re-make the tarball tomorrow
[08:32] <ochosi> ok,thanks
[08:33] <ochosi> i'll push it now
[08:33] <ochosi> changelog doesn't need a bump cause it already says "update icons" :)
[08:36] <ochosi> Noskcaj: ok, done (rev259)
[09:32] <elfy> bluesabre: bug 1286046
[09:32] <elfy> wut
[09:32] <elfy> bug 1286046
[09:32] <elfy> bug 1286046
[09:33] <knome> bug 1286046
[09:33] <elfy> grrr - well it's really there 
[09:33] <knome> it doesn't reply to the same query twice
[09:33] <knome> so you need to ask something else in between
[09:33] <elfy> must have been catching up - it got marked as private to start with 
[09:33] <knome> something like that
[09:33] <elfy> knome: ok thanks :)
[09:34] <knome> oh, banks
[09:34] <ochosi> yeah, we have (very) long standing packaging issue with the plugins
[09:34] <knome> why can't you show me your price list.
[09:34] <ochosi> so i'm pretty sure that's the issue there, elfy 
[09:34] <ochosi> :/
[09:34] <elfy> ochosi: aah, ok wasn't aware of that
[09:34] <ochosi> it's quite annoying, cause the mpris2 plugin is actually very nice (and new)
[09:35] <elfy> yea - I saw that on sean's blog just now
[09:37] <ochosi> we need to find someone who can help us with that in fact
[09:38] <ochosi> the packaging is the same as in debian, we're quite puzzled by this...
[09:39] <elfy> that'll not be elfy then ... 
[09:43] <ochosi> awwwh
[09:44] <elfy> ochosi: I know what I can do :p
[10:02] <elfy> knome: you might be able to answer this - in the docs - is whisker-menu just going to be called menu? 
[10:02] <elfy> I'll do the same for testcases
[10:03] <knome> it's ok to call it just menu at least in the testcases
[10:04] <elfy> that'll do - though I might change things to 'open blah' or 'start blah' 
[10:04] <knome> :)
[10:06] <elfy> then we can do whatever in future ... 
[10:08] <Unit193> knome: Thoughts about that for docs?  "Applications Menu" is the actual plugin name for the "older style" menu.
[10:09] <knome> Unit193, i know, which is why i'd lean towards "menu"
[10:28] <slickymasterWork> Noskcaj will you please raise the status of Bug 1286046 to 'Triaged'
[10:28] <elfy> slickymasterWork: there is backlog about this bug :)
[10:28] <knome> done.
[10:29] <slickymasterWork> :) good morning knome 
[10:29] <slickymasterWork> yeah, I know elfy. It's like ochosi stated, is a long-standing issue in Paorle
[10:29] <slickymasterWork> s/Paorle/Parole
[10:30] <elfy> if I'd known I'd not have bothered wasting my time reporting it tbh
[10:32] <Unit193> elfy: But as stated, crashing part is new.
[10:33] <knome> good day slickymasterWork 
[10:34] <elfy> Unit193: meh
[10:34] <elfy> I hate reporting bugs that are just going to sit there forever and a day gathering dust
[10:35] <Unit193> s/ that/./
[10:35] <elfy> not even sure how I managed to find it - I rarely use parole anyway :)
[10:36] <Unit193> Good tester. ;)
[10:55] <elfy> ochosi: are we planning to not have the action plugin on the panel at all now?
[10:59] <bluesabre> hey knome
[11:00] <bluesabre> can you link that parole bug to the upstream xfce bug? https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9904
[11:00] <bluesabre> there is some launchpad wizardry that allows some folks to do it
[11:00] <elfy> I'll do it
[11:00] <elfy> bluesabre: it's already been done :)
[11:00] <ali1234> anyone can link bug reports
[11:01] <bluesabre> oh
[11:01] <bluesabre> I'm just not paying attention
[11:01] <ali1234> actually just pasting the URL in a comment is enough now
[11:01] <bluesabre> oh, that's handy
[11:02] <bluesabre> I've never made it work correctly when trying to link other bugs
[11:02] <ali1234> the proper way is click "also affects distribution"
[11:02] <bluesabre> ah
[11:02] <bluesabre> that's a misleading name
[11:02] <ali1234> yes
[11:10] <knome> bluesabre, boo! :)
[11:10] <bluesabre> hey knome!
[11:11] <elfy> knome: https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
[11:11] <knome> hallo
[11:11] <knome> oh gosh ;)
[11:11] <elfy> if you get chance - if not I'll ping someone else 
[11:11] <knome> i'll finish off this work thing, can look after that
[11:11] <elfy> ok - cheers :)
[12:03] <bluesabre> so, others that are familiar with python, suggestions? https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1280607
[12:04] <ochosi> is that a general python problem?
[12:04] <ochosi> or some utf8 crap?
[12:04] <bluesabre> not sure
[12:04] <bluesabre> I haven't had a chance to debug it yet myself, but it seems... odd
[12:04] <ochosi> indeed
[13:47] <jjfrv8> knome, I was hoping at the meeting yesterday we could take a vote on whether to add Settings Manager to Favorites in whisker-menu
[13:47] <jjfrv8> how do you feel about it?
[13:48] <knome> jjfrv8, in addition to it being in the bottom-right?
[13:48] <GridCube> i also would like that the USC be in the favs
[13:48] <jjfrv8> yeah, cause it seems kinda awkward to point them to an icon in the docs
[13:49] <jjfrv8> GridCube, USC is going to be there
[13:49] <GridCube> right :)
[13:50] <knome> jjfrv8, i don't have a strong opinion on that, so best talk with ochosi
[13:50] <knome> i mean i'm fine with adding it
[13:50] <ochosi> jjfrv8: it's a bit of a duplication, but if you think it makes sense, we can put it there
[13:51] <jjfrv8> knome, I was also considering adding the icons next to the text in the most recent MR I put up last night. I'll past it in a minute
[13:51] <jjfrv8> *paste
[13:51] <knome> jjfrv8, sure
[13:52] <GridCube> there is also the logout thing that used to be on the top panel, will it be reinstated?
[13:52] <ochosi> nope
[13:52] <GridCube> :) ok
[13:52] <elfy> that will need to be in release notes then
[13:53] <knome> ochosi, i guess we should discuss that after b1
[13:53] <ochosi> knome: discuss what?
[13:53] <knome> the panel layout in general, but more specifically, how people have seen whiskermenu and the action buttons
[13:54] <knome> (and possibly workspace switcher)
[13:54] <jjfrv8> knome, maybe put the icons next to the text in the last sentence here: http://imagebin.org/296326
[13:54] <knome> jjfrv8, absolutely
[13:54] <jjfrv8> k
[13:55] <knome> though, hmm
[13:55] <knome> that's a tricky one
[13:55] <knome> that makes me think we should *maybe* do that for other places as well
[13:55] <knome> but i can definitely agree it's a good idea to add them there
[13:57] <jjfrv8> not an issue if ppl switch to a different icon theme?
[13:58] <knome> well that's their issue... :)
[13:58] <knome> they can change the whiskermenu app icon as well
[13:58] <knome> and then it isn't the xubuntu logo
[13:59] <jjfrv8> works for me, then
[14:00] <jjfrv8> I'd also like to add a paragraphs on panel customization and MenuLibre to the settings-preferences chapter. how's that sound?
[14:01] <knome> at least the menulibre one is planned already
[14:01] <knome> and panel customization doesn't sound bad either
[14:01] <jjfrv8> will work on that this weekend.
[14:01] <knome> thanks
[14:01] <knome> slickymasterWork, ^
[14:03] <jjfrv8> bbl
[14:17] <GridCube> ochosi, did you catch my ping yesterday?
[14:22] <knome> zequence, you ready? :)
[14:25] <zequence> knome: Yep
[14:25] <knome> so, umh
[14:25] <knome> micahg?
[14:25] <knome> ochosi?
[14:25] <knome> bluesabre?
[14:26] <knome> what's the exact scope of bug fixes you are committing for xfce?
[14:26] <knome> i mean, will you keep on landing "any" bug fixes, or just security?
[14:29] <zequence> I will be commited to fixing bugs, with severity in mind (prioritizied by need and the time I have to spare - but always fixing critical ones) - by working with upstream. I implement patches - others do the actual fix
[14:29] <knome> okay
[14:29] <knome> i'm considering the current situation with xfce development, and that doesn't really look active
[14:29] <knome> i mean,
[14:30] <knome> you might end up writing all the bug fixes yourself
[14:30] <knome> i'm also considering possible problems with gtk2 stuff getting outdated, and xfce depending on that
[14:31] <knome> while the gtk2 packages aren't the xfce core, it is *possible* that some issues come up with those, and i don't who else is giving support/developing those in 5 years
[14:31] <zequence> I don't expect that much of the DE stuff will much change past the first three years
[14:32] <zequence> I think the Ubuntu five year support plan is mostly focused on servers
[14:32] <zequence> Am I wrong?
[14:32] <knome> sure, but if you promise 5 years support for ubuntu studio desktop, you're alone the last 2 years anyway
[14:32] <zequence> There are kernel updates, and those can change stuff. But other than that, I don't believe much will change - of course, something could
[14:32] <knome> i'm not saying xubuntu couldn't extend to 5 years
[14:33] <knome> i'm considering any regression bugs
[14:33] <knome> or security holes that weren't found before
[14:33] <knome> or anything that relates to any of that
[14:33] <knome> applications not supporting that old libs, etc.
[14:34] <zequence> I don't think Xubuntu would find it difficult technically to have 5 years support, but the question is rather - is it something Xubuntu users want?
[14:34] <zequence> I think Ubuntu Studio users might want that, all though only a small percentage
[14:34] <knome> from my point of view, it's a question whether the developers are committed to 5 years
[14:34] <knome> i mean, of course it matters if users want it or not
[14:34] <knome> but even if users want it,
[14:34] <knome> and we say we support for 5 years,
[14:35] <knome> actually *doing* the bugfixes and stuff requires that developers are committed for that support length
[14:36] <knome> if after 3 years there is a big bug in 14.04, and the xubuntu team is much stronger than now with many developers, i have nothing against landing a bugfix for that
[14:36] <knome> even if we only "promised" 3 years of support
[14:36] <knome> (saying, it's not a big issue to make it *LONGER* in the future)
[14:38] <knome> all those reasons i just laid out were the reasons why we settled on 3y support for 12.04, and any of it hasn't changed since, for us at least
[14:38] <zequence> We're also considering a PPA for backports that otherwise would be next to impossible to get in otherwise
[14:39] <zequence> We have a different situation to DE based flavours
[14:39] <knome> as i understand it, that wouldn't count as "support" as defined/"required" by canonical for the LTS support length
[14:39] <knome> but it's fair considering the composition of your flavor
[14:40] <knome> so maybe support LTS for 3y, but promise PPA updates for 2 more years
[14:40] <zequence> What our users want is a platform that is stable, and works for years. Once you get to know it, you like to stay with it
[14:40] <knome> (as time permits)
[14:40] <knome> sure, i understand that
[14:41] <zequence> I was intending to make this release of Ubuntu Studio DE agnostic, making it possible for users to select the DE during install. Haven't had the time to complete that ubiquity stuff yet
[14:42] <knome> yeah, i remember that
[14:42] <zequence> I'm doing things in the order of importance right now, and that is still a possiblity
[14:42] <zequence> Even after FF
[14:42] <knome> in a way, it makes defining the support length even harder
[14:42] <knome> do you plan to support *any* installable DE for 3/5 years?
[14:42] <knome> or basically just the "studio" packages?
[14:43] <zequence> I suppose in that perspective, it might seem a lot of work - only, it doesn't seem to be - if you look at the track record
[14:43] <zequence> There's a theoretical POW and then there's a practical one
[14:44] <micahg> knome: huh?   was I invited to something?
[14:44] <knome> it's a big lottery.
[14:44] <knome> you don't want to end up winning the wrong kind of jackpot...
[14:44] <knome> micahg, yeah, impromptu. see the backlog
[14:45] <zequence> We can end support at any time. If that is how it plays out
[14:45] <knome> micahg, talking about US LTS support length vs xubuntu LTS support length
[14:45] <knome> zequence, well that's not what you are supposed to do...
[14:45] <knome> "we'll give support for 5 years" -- then don't
[14:45] <micahg> knome: Xubuntu commits to High and Critical bug fixes and security fixes for 3 years
[14:45]  * holstein +1 ^
[14:46] <knome> micahg, i know. i've announced that
[14:46] <micahg> and I'm happy to help with Xubuntu's part of that
[14:46] <knome> micahg, studio is considering 5 years of support
[14:46] <knome> micahg, and we're discussing if it's sane, and since they overlap with us quite a bit...
[14:46] <holstein> part of what was great about going xfce at the time was being able to take advantage of the xubuntu upstream team support
[14:47] <micahg> I know, I responded on their ML: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2014-February/005719.html
[14:47] <zequence> One never knows what will happen in three years.
[14:47] <zequence> Or in five
[14:47] <zequence> But, one can assume
[14:47] <holstein> well, we can assume both teams wont fade away in 3 years
[14:47] <knome> zequence, well exactly... but promising 3 years is less of a gamble than 5
[14:48] <knome> micahg, right, not following that list, but cool :)
[14:48] <holstein> we can assume the ubuntustudio team wont get bigger than the xubuntu team in 3 and run out the last 2 
[14:48] <micahg> can I pick up from backscroll in 3 hours or so, I'm working on a deadline for something
[14:48] <holstein> i think if the xubuntu team finds 5 years a stretch, we should consider that
[14:48] <zequence> holstein: Have you actually looked at what sort of bugs have been fixed for XFCE for the last LTS?
[14:49] <knome> i think it would be weird that xubuntu, who kind of specialises in xfce, only promises 3 years,
[14:49] <holstein> zequence: what is of note?
[14:49] <holstein> zequence: what am i missing?
[14:49] <knome> when US, who have a lot more packages to support, would extend the support of xfce to 5 years
[14:50] <zequence> holstein: NOt a lot of packages has seen bug fixing. Only one past the relase of Precise, as far as I can tell, and that was the weather plugin
[14:50] <zequence> But, I might be missing something
[14:50] <zequence> So, please enlighten me, if I'm wrong
[14:51] <holstein> zequence: im not following
[14:52] <micahg> zequence: with libav now in universe, that's a security burden as well (though shared with Kubuntu, Edubuntu, and Kylin)
[14:53] <zequence> holstein: I'm saying, there's not much bug fixing happening even during the first three years
[14:53] <zequence> For Ubuntu Studio I fixed two, for Precise
[14:53] <knome> zequence, what micah said about debian xfce stuff is correct as well
[14:54] <zequence> And I'm sure I could handle that sort of fixing, myself, when working with upstream
[14:54] <knome> they only support xfce for 1-2 years
[14:54] <holstein> zequence: sure.. then just say that on the site
[14:54] <knome> so that would leave you 3-4 years alone
[14:54] <micahg> zequence: with multimedia, you have a lot more security exposure than Xubuntu does
[14:54] <knome> zequence, i'm not the one saying you shouldn't promise 5 years of support
[14:55] <knome> zequence, i'm saying you should consider it carefully; we didn't do that, because we don't think it's sustainable
[14:55] <knome> zequence, if you support the LTS for 5 years, you'll have, at one point, three LTS's to support at the same time.
[14:55] <knome> that's a lot of maintaining work for xfce and multimedia packages
[14:56] <knome> and potentially other dependencies
[14:56] <knome> (at least for the oldest LTS of that bunch)
[14:56] <holstein> im not a code contributor like that.. i cant gurantee being able to fix a bug or address one
[14:57] <holstein> its really not up to me to put that burden on anyone when i cant take any of it on perononally
[14:57] <knome> and as i've said for a few times, i don't think you can suddenly drop the LTS support length to 3y after committing to 5y
[14:58] <knome> but you can always promise after 3y to extend the support if it looks viable, if you want
[14:58] <knome> unofficially you can support 14.04 for 10 years if you wish
[14:58] <knome> and unofficially you can promise 20 but stop after 3.
[14:58] <knome> you shouldn't, but there's more room to move there
[14:59] <zequence> My judgement of the situation is that what worked for three years will continue to work for another two
[14:59] <holstein> yeah.. theres nothing wrong, as i see it, saying its officially 3, and as resources allow, supporting it more
[14:59] <knome> zequence, sure, that's your decision
[15:00] <knome> zequence, i just wanted to bring my opinion to the table for consideration
[15:00] <zequence> We could let our users know how the support works, by telling them that the first three years Xubuntu team is actively supporting the DE, and the last two years the Ubuntu Studio team is doing it
[15:01] <knome> that would be fair for the users
[15:02] <holstein> also, nothing wrong with saying that in 3 years
[15:03] <holstein> "since support is ending upstream, and the team is growing, we will do our best to extend another 2 years the support of..."
[15:06] <knome> i guess one more comment
[15:06] <knome> since xubuntu is supporting xfce less than US, some questions might arise from that
[15:07] <knome> we will answer those questions honestly; that we don't think it's doable for us to support xfce for more than 3 years
[15:07] <knome> whether that in turn puts on more pressure on US, i don't know
[15:07] <knome> but it's good to acknowledge that this isn't just a technical discussion
[15:08] <knome> or just a technical decision
[15:08] <zequence> It's just a different view point. In reality, if bugs happen, they will - until someon fixes them
[15:08] <zequence> Support means a lot of things
[15:08] <knome> absolutely
[15:08] <zequence> I'm only going to be commited to fixing bugs, especially severe ones
[15:09] <knome> yes, ack
[15:09] <zequence> It might happen that some upgrade of a package would leave Xubuntu not booting at all
[15:09] <knome> i'm not trying to convince you, don't understand me wrong
[15:09] <zequence> Even during the first three years
[15:09] <knome> i'm just wanting to discuss all the facts around it
[15:09] <zequence> It's what can happen. And it might. But, the chances are, it won't
[15:10] <ochosi> GridCube: if by your ping you mean the one where you said the shimmer PPA fixed it, yes :)
[15:10] <GridCube> right thats what i meant
[15:10] <GridCube> :)
[15:11] <zequence> Just because you say you will support something for a lot of years doesn't mean the system will not break during that time.
[15:12] <zequence> But, sure. I can see the point in how volotile it would be for one person to claim to support a bunch of DEs for a couple of years
[15:12] <knome> and multimedia packages
[15:13] <knome> and potentially other packages that the DEs support on
[15:13] <knome> zequence, have you had a vote about this with your team?
[15:14] <zequence> knome: As an actual vote, no. Since our team is so small, and lacking of technical knowledge, I leave it to a argumentative discussion on our mail list
[15:14] <zequence> IÃ'd rather we did have a larger team, where one could make use of such systems
[15:22] <zequence> I'll consider proposing to reduce to three years, but if we do five years, will inform our users of how that works
[15:22] <knome> zequence, for me that sounds a sensible thing to do
[15:22] <knome> zequence, thanks for listening and taking the time, and feel free to ask if you have anything on your mind
[15:23] <zequence> IThe thing abou, especially audio production machines, is that you might have the same system, without internet connection (cause you don't want it), for 5 years - it's probably a tiny little group in all of humanity, using Ubuntu Studio for that, but it's a noble bunch
[15:24] <zequence> Now and then, you might want to update it
[15:25] <zequence> ..and you fear it each time
[15:25] <knome> yeah, though if you're not connected to the internet, you can keep on using any release for as long as you want
[15:25] <knome> without anything being prone to breaking
[15:25] <knome> *even without any support promise*
[15:25] <zequence> that's true. But, each point release has new security updates
[15:26] <knome> actually,
[15:26] <zequence> and other bug fixes
[15:26] <zequence> WeÃ're Ã¥articularly concerned about the kernel
[15:26] <knome> with 3 years of support you already have .5 point releases
[15:27] <zequence> At this point, Trusty is not looking very good. The kernel has some pretty bad bugs in it
[15:27] <zequence> I might not install Trusty for a production machine until point release .1 or .2
[15:28] <knome> yep, i see many people doing that, especially on work machines
[15:58] <slickymasterWork> knome, jjfrv8 +1 on adding Settings Manager to WhiskerMenu's favorites and on adding the icons next to the text in the docs
[15:59] <knome> yep, just wanted you to ack he's working on it :)
[15:59]  * elfy wonders what the default favourites are
[16:00] <knome> elfy, "anything that is mentioned on the slide"
[16:00] <slickymasterWork> there's the issue that that might cause us to review them entirely so it would also be added through all chapters/section as needed so uniformity is kept 
[16:00] <knome> "the issue"? :)
[16:00] <knome> oh, right
[16:01] <knome> i think it would be fine to do that just on that spot, at least for now
[16:01] <knome> we can extend later
[16:01] <knome> the point is, those icons do not have a description visible at all times
[16:01] <knome> things in the menu do
[16:01] <slickymasterWork> well, it's sort of an issue, since I think it's something that sooner or later will have to be addressed 
[16:02] <knome> well then we should do that
[16:02] <knome> but it's not something that's release-critical
[16:02] <elfy> knome: so how do I see what's on the slide without running an image
[16:03] <slickymasterWork> agrre, but either way a review should be made to check if that is/will be needed elsewhere
[16:03] <knome> elfy, bzr branch lp:ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu; cd ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu; ./test-slideshow.sh xubuntu
[16:04] <slickymasterWork> s/agrre/agree
[16:04] <knome> slickymasterWork, i don't think we have any other places where there is no label for an icon
[16:04] <knome> slickymasterWork, so in that way, it's logical even if we only add the icons in that place
[16:04] <slickymasterWork> I'll go through them, just to double check
[16:04] <knome> thanks:)
[16:06] <slickymasterWork> I'll also ping jjfrv8 to see if he needs any help on the panel customization and MenuLibre paragraphs
[16:06] <knome> nice
[16:06] <knome> thanks for taking care
[16:06] <slickymasterWork> will you be around tonight?
[16:06] <knome> less, but will be at least later
[16:06] <elfy> knome: so it's going to have mugshot and menulibre in there as well?
[16:06] <knome> astraljava is coming here in some time :)
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> I thought on nagging you about the integration of NewDocs in the doc team
[16:07] <knome> elfy, actually, sorry
[16:07] <knome> elfy, anything that's on the default apps slide
[16:07] <slickymasterWork> but we can postponed that
[16:07] <knome> slickymasterWork, well i'm around for some time now :)
[16:07] <elfy> and where was all this decided?
[16:08] <slickymasterWork> shell we hope to #ubuntu-newdocs then
[16:08] <slickymasterWork> s/hope/hop
[16:08] <knome> elfy, i had a PM with ochosi. it'll land for b2, then we can reconsider that as a team, if needed
[16:08] <elfy> mmm
[16:08] <knome> elfy, do you have any requests for those?
[16:08] <knome> i mean, it does make sense to have the things we advertise in the slideshow
[16:08] <knome> and doesn't feel like there is anything else we should list
[16:09] <knome> or if there is, maybe we should add them to the slideshow as well :)
[16:09] <elfy> not really
[16:09] <knome> oh right,
[16:09] <knome> terminal also
[16:09] <knome> in the favs
[16:09] <knome> and help
[16:09] <knome> that's the two things not on the default apps slide, but on favs
[16:09] <knome> the docs startpage gets redone, so we don't need the x website/contribute to x either
[16:10] <elfy> mostly what is annoying me is that people have to work out that one of the icons on the menu - which you don't see unless you actually go to is it - is where you can actually turn the machine off, or logoff 
[16:10] <elfy> rather than have it on the panel
[16:10] <knome> elfy, yeah, as i said to ochosi, we should discuss this in a meeting
[16:10] <elfy> but it won't affect me 
[16:10] <knome> but he had a fair point, the panel layout proposal was up an in the wiki for a long time...
[16:11] <elfy> yea - and I can understand that - I do get extremely annoyed at 75% of -team never bothering to test 
[16:12] <knome> yep
[16:12] <ochosi> yup
[16:12] <elfy> at the end of the day - whatever you decide is default won't last here any longer than the first install ;)
[16:12] <ochosi> that's the same with pretty much everyone i think
[16:12] <ochosi> and one reason why i chopped down the panel layout
[16:13] <elfy> so I'll just +0 it when it turns up as a discussion
[16:39] <schproodle> need to file a bug for Window Manger settings -- where to go please
[16:40] <elfy> ubuntu-bug xfwm4-settings
[16:40] <elfy> but is it a bug :)
[16:40] <knome> window mangler
[16:40] <knome> ;)
[16:40] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[16:40] <schproodle> I don't know a bug from bud really
[16:40] <knome> the bug is buggy
[16:41] <schproodle> Testcase #12-#17 in 'Check...Advanced Options'; select Advanced tab; 'Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or monse pointer.
[16:41] <elfy> I'll not discuss bud
[16:41] <knome> elfy, not even bud light?
[16:41] <knome> :P
[16:41] <schproodle> where is bud?
[16:43] <slickymasterWork> well, a corona icon could/should be added to the favorites, providing ochosi agrees with it ;)
[16:44] <knome> ;)
[16:45] <schproodle> seems more like a Moroni than Peroni, in this case
[16:47] <ochosi> peroni - per noi?
[16:48] <slickymasterWork> schproodle: if you think there's something wrong with that testcas, the you can fil a bug against it over here -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug
[16:49] <schproodle> slickymasterWork, The testcase is clear enough -- just that Wrap works space' NEVER happens for dragged window or monse pointer. Seems like it might be bug eh.
[16:50] <knome> ochosi, do we have multiple workspaces by default?
[16:50] <elfy> 2 I thought 
[16:51] <schproodle> yes 2 but no 'switcher' in sight eh
[16:51] <knome> schproodle, nope.
[16:51] <elfy> how many do we need ?
[16:52] <knome> more then one if we're testing whether they work ;)
[16:52] <schproodle> buds? a few anyway...
[16:52] <elfy> must be thinking about something else then - I switch by clicking, or mouse wheel, or middle button on desktop
[16:53] <elfy> though I'm not thinking very straight either lol
[16:53] <knome> elfy, drag windoe title to the "monitor" edge and over, and it should wrap to the next workspace
[16:54] <elfy> yep
[16:54] <elfy> just dragged you all the way to desktop 2
[16:55] <knome> lol, thanks
[16:55] <schproodle> right, shoulda except it failed on my test in vm
[16:55]  * elfy boots his
[16:56] <elfy> and tries to remember which one isn't 640x480
[16:56] <elfy> really should sort them out lol
[16:56] <knome> hah
[16:56] <knome> ;)
[16:58] <elfy> really want a faster machine too 
[16:58] <elfy> not being Unit193 
[17:00] <elfy> no dragging in there
[17:00] <knome> yep
[17:01] <knome> so maybe it is a bug in the testcase indeed
[17:01] <elfy> at least in the live session
[17:02] <elfy> well - when I wrote it - it would have worked or I'd not have written it like that
[17:02] <elfy> so maybe a change in what happens
[17:02] <elfy> I'll add it to the -qa list 
[17:02] <knome> bbl :)
[17:03] <elfy> and it would have worked a short while back - I've been testing testcases before I call
[17:03] <elfy> cya later knome 
[17:03] <schproodle> Bug #1286239
[17:05] <elfy> you've created the bug against the xfce package instead of testcases :)
[17:05] <schproodle> oh, ^monse^mouse ;)
[17:06] <GridCube> should i add to the mugshot bug report that the only available option for a new avatar is to choose from the non-existent presets? while before you could also search for a picture yourself?
[17:06] <schproodle> I don't think it is a testcase problem
[17:06] <GridCube> or should i make a new bug report for that?
[17:06] <elfy> schproodle: works fine on this machine 
[17:07] <schproodle> elfy, didn't work for my test anyhow.
[17:08] <elfy> GridCube: what bug is it?
[17:08] <GridCube> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1284720
[17:09] <elfy> GridCube: that's what toz was saying
[17:09] <GridCube> no
[17:09] <elfy> it's also not picking up camera here - but that's a dependency
[17:10] <elfy> I guess adding information doesn't hurt at all - saves bluesabre asking in here :)
[17:11] <GridCube> elfy, http://goput.it/ph99.png
[17:11] <elfy> yea - I see that behaviour here too
[17:11] <GridCube> see the "examinar" allows you to search for a picture by hand, thats not available in 14.04
[17:11] <elfy> yep
[17:12] <GridCube> i think thats not related with the empty preset folder
[17:12] <elfy> do a new one - I can me too it
[17:12] <GridCube> as after making one, and the crash goes away, there is still no examinar option
[17:13] <GridCube> alright
[17:14] <schproodle> elfy, reviewing the exchanges above.  Should I have file the but somehow for the testcase?
[17:14] <schproodle> file the bug
[17:14] <elfy> bluesabre: you want a bug report for the camera not working in mugshot - can't remember what needed to installed that wasn't
[17:14] <schproodle> filed the bug
[17:14] <elfy> schproodle: probably - we'll get someone to move it 
[17:15] <schproodle> ok. sorry, I don't understand. where would I move it?
[17:15] <elfy> you can't :)
[17:15] <GridCube> elfy, https://bugs.launchpad.net/mugshot/+bug/1286243
[17:16] <elfy> done
[17:16] <GridCube> kk
[17:25] <brainwash> GridCube: specific image?
[17:26] <GridCube> brainwash, ?
[17:26] <elfy> brainwash: the option to find one from files you've got locally
[17:26] <GridCube> ah, i meant like random images locally
[17:26] <brainwash> it's missing?
[17:26] <GridCube> yes
[17:27] <brainwash> that's strange :)
[17:30] <brainwash> I cannot test it right now, but I remember that you can select different sources to select an image
[17:31] <brainwash> or do you mean the stock images?
[17:31] <slickymasterWork> elfy: do you want me to pick up bug 1286239 or are you doing it?
[17:31] <elfy> not now you can't 
[17:31] <brainwash> now you can't? bug alert! :D
[17:32] <slickymasterWork> ?! it's not assigned yet :P
[17:32] <slickymasterWork> even though it's raised against the wrong package :P
[17:37] <brainwash> GridCube: just changed my profile picture, so it's working fine here
[17:52] <elfy> missed a bunch of that 
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> not much elfy 
[17:52] <elfy> schproodle: you know you fail resize tests on bug 1227057 - do you actually have a big enough vm drive for it to offer the option? 
[17:52] <elfy> because if you have for instance a default 8Gb vbox drive - then it won't do it afaik - as the minumum space req'd is ~5Gb - so you'd need at least twice that
[17:53] <slickymasterWork> elfy: edited bug 1286239 description and affected package
[17:53] <slickymasterWork> so it's all yours :P
[17:53] <elfy> slickymasterWork: did you see me say don't bother with the testcase?
[17:54] <elfy> and how do you edit a package?
[17:54] <slickymasterWork> nopes
[17:54] <elfy> in a bug ... 
[17:55] <elfy> oh you haven't you just added testcases 
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> right
[17:56] <slickymasterWork> there's no editing in packages, what I meant is that I edit against what it's filled
[17:56] <elfy> yea - I thought you meant you'd removed xfce4 package :)
[17:56] <slickymasterWork> but you were saying no to bother with the testcase...
[17:57] <elfy> yea
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> I won't, but any reason in particular?
[17:57] <elfy> you probably didn't see me say ... 
[17:57] <elfy> that I was more concerned with menulibre :)
[17:58] <elfy> slickymasterWork: I'm not sure that I'm going to be doing as many tests next cycle 
[17:58] <elfy> and I'll not be calling for that one again this cycle
[17:58] <slickymasterWork> I'll go back in time, just give a sec to catch a wormhole
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> humm just hope that it will not mean the end of -qa
[17:59] <elfy> only package stuff I shall be calling this cycle left is networking and the addition stuff at the bottome
[17:59] <elfy> oh no - not at all :)
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> elfy: bottome?!
[18:00] <elfy> not sure we really need to be testing all of these things each cycle 
[18:00] <elfy> bottom of http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/306/builds/55995/testcases
[18:00] <slickymasterWork> well, with some I do agree with you
[18:01] <elfy> I'll wrap up the trusty cycle in a mail with -team - then start a discussion that no-one will reply to about whether to do the same amount
[18:01] <elfy> wait a week for no replies then decide on my own
[18:01] <slickymasterWork> I'll try to nag you
[18:02] <elfy> lol
[18:04] <slickymasterWork> as far as tests done goes, besides a few exceptions there aren't many -qa members listed either on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/testers or http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/reports/testers
[18:04] <elfy> no
[18:05] <elfy> nor -testers
[18:06] <slickymasterWork> exactly
[18:06]  * elfy has list of image testers
[18:06] <elfy> not done the package one - but there will be one
[18:07] <elfy> and a blog post
[18:07] <elfy> then again whoever's xpl might want to do things differently - who knows
[18:09] <elfy> keyboard got marked as high - that's hopeful :)
[18:09] <slickymasterWork> eh eh eh I'm not facing that one 
[18:13] <elfy> I started to look to see if I could replicate with a french layout - then I couldn't do the password properly lol - gave up on that as a bad move :p
[18:18] <schproodle> elfy, How big should the drive be?  Vbox seems to dfault to 8Gb. The size is dynamically expanded as I understand beyond that.
[18:19] <elfy> yes - but as 1 install 'wants' 6.1Gb - you'll not fit 2 into 8Gb :)
[18:19] <pleia2> I think the installer still wants 4.something free for an install
[18:19] <schproodle> elfy,  regarding your comment: 'resize tests on bug 1227057'
[18:19] <pleia2> eek, 6.1 :)
[18:19]  * pleia2 behindthetimes
[18:19] <elfy> pleia2: yea - it was 5ish a short while back
[18:20] <elfy> schproodle: yes - if you're trying to fit a quart in a pint pot - it'll not work :)
[18:20] <slickymasterWork> schproodle: you don't have to go necessarly with the dynamic allocation option, I always opt for the fixed size option
[18:20] <elfy> I always go for dynamic - but I've got a vm with 20GB space I use for resize testing
[18:20] <schproodle> ok, how big then should the vm have?  Fixed size OK.  I have lotsa space
[18:21] <elfy> ^^
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> schproodle: in my case I always go for 22 GB fixed size disk, 10 GB for /, 10 for /home and 2GB for swap
[18:21] <schproodle> what does ^^ signify eh
[18:21] <slickymasterWork> lol
[18:22] <slickymasterWork> to read what someone posted previously
[18:22] <schproodle> ok
[18:22] <schproodle> how big is too big?
[18:23] <schproodle> slickymasterWork, fixed size may be faster according to vbox dialog
[18:23] <slickymasterWork> when you start to allocate more space than what the host needs, then you're getting into a too nig situation
[18:24] <elfy> well - no idea what the maximum is 
[18:24] <slickymasterWork> I'm under that impression 
[18:24] <slickymasterWork> s/nig/big
[18:24] <elfy> but if you're just testing then if you had~20 that's sufficient
[18:25] <schproodle> will do.  the side by each installation of course means the existing drive needs to be re-partiioned or resized. 
[18:26] <elfy> yes - if the drive is big enough you get the autoresize option
[18:26] <schproodle> yes
[18:27] <schproodle> the dynamic allocation is therefore irrelevant as the installer does not know aboutthat
[18:27] <slickymasterWork> regarding that, no schproodle 
[18:28] <elfy> yea - of no importance - the drive can be as big as the max originally set 
[18:28] <elfy> it works fine :)
[18:47] <Noskcaj> micahg, Any chance you could sponsor bug https://launchpad.net/bugs/1282734 ?
[18:48] <micahg> Noskcaj: sure, just not right now, maybe this weekend, more likely Monday
[18:48] <Noskcaj> ok, thanks
[18:48] <micahg> feel free to poke me over the weekend
[19:19] <brainwash> bluesabre, ochosi: should xubuntu/mugshot ship some preinstalled avatar pictures?
[19:20] <brainwash> like windows, gnome 3,.. do
[19:24] <elfy> sounds like a wonderful reason :p
[19:26] <elfy> knome: you had chance to look at that merge thingy
[19:26] <brainwash> how about a contest to get a nice selection of stock profile pictures? :D
[19:26] <brainwash> for 14.10
[19:26] <elfy> sounds like an idea to me 
[19:26] <elfy> but I'll still use Red Cap :p
[19:26] <brainwash> btw bug 1016932 got fixed
[19:28] <brainwash> now we need to test if it actually works
[19:28] <elfy> didn't even know about it
[19:29] <brainwash> judging by the bug report heat level almost no one did
[19:32] <elfy> yea
[19:33] <brainwash> and bug 1185396 isn't noticeable anymore after apport gets disabled (final release)
[19:34] <elfy> yea - bit of a pita that - but it does the job then crashes
[19:42] <Noskcaj> brainwash, There appear to be stock pictures already
[19:43] <brainwash> Noskcaj: in xubuntu?
[19:43] <Noskcaj> They might be from a different package, but i have about 20 pictures in mugshot's "stock" category
[19:44] <brainwash> you have gdm installed?
[19:48] <elfy> I just get a crash if I try to do anything with the avatar 
[19:50] <brainwash> should get fixed soon
[19:50] <elfy> saw that
[19:56] <elfy> can't remember what needed installing to get the camera recognised or I'd check that 
[19:57] <elfy> oh hang on ... 
[19:58] <schproodle> elfy, auto resize intall goint as expected.  Sorry about those bug reports.
[19:58] <elfy> oh nvm - forgot this one got an emergency re-install for a moment then lol
[19:58] <brainwash> elfy: see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mugshot-dev/mugshot/trunk/view/head:/README
[19:58] <elfy> schproodle: that's ok - I kept meaning to tell you when I saw you - then kept forgetting :)
[20:00] <schproodle> elfy, I think I brought his up here but it was likely unintelligible due to my lack of understandinng.
[20:01] <elfy> brainwash: thanks - got it 
[20:01] <schproodle> elfy, do you not have access to my email?
[20:01] <elfy> wut?
[20:01] <schproodle> I guess that is private on launchpad.
[20:02] <elfy> brainwash: though - saving and stuff with camera didn't actually do anything
[20:02] <schproodle> You were waitin to see me eh.
[20:02] <elfy> schproodle: if it is set to private - then no :)
[20:02] <brainwash> elfy: :(
[20:03] <elfy> schproodle: if it had been that important I would have edited your test results and made them passed and removed the bug
[20:03] <elfy> I knew it wasn't a bug - or you'd have seen me trying to find out what was up
[20:03] <elfy> brainwash: should save pic as .face ?
[20:03] <schproodle> ok, I see your changes on another one. Thanks.
[20:04] <brainwash> elfy: yes, but I never tried to generate a pic from cam
[20:04] <elfy> mmm 
[20:04] <brainwash> so something might be broken
[20:05] <elfy> guess so 
[20:05] <elfy> I'll report it now
[20:06] <elfy> wonder if the gstreamer tools package shouldn't be optional though 
[20:09] <elfy> odd - sets the pic in the mugshot app - but doesn't save as .face - nor obviously appear at lock screen
[20:10] <elfy> parole resets volume on unlock ... 
[20:11] <elfy> bug 1286312
[20:50] <astraljava> Hey guys, gnome suggested to try light-locker on my saucy laptop instead of xscreensaver, so that I could easier suspend it when session is locked. My question is, how should xflock4 be utilized in unison?
[20:50] <astraljava> Currently I have ctrl-alt-del set to fire up xflock4, but it doesn't do anything.
[20:51] <elfy> astraljava - hi :)
[20:52] <brainwash> astraljava: call it directly with "light-locker-command -l"
[20:53] <astraljava> brainwash: That's what I thought, too, but what happens to automatic locking? There's no screensaver settings in settings manager anymore.
[20:53] <astraljava> elfy: Hi there. :)
[20:54] <brainwash> if light-locker is running in the background, it will launch automatically on suspend/hibernate (dbus activation)
[20:54] <brainwash> similar to gnomer-screensaver
[20:56] <brainwash> on top of that, recent versions should lock the screen upon the screen blanking
[20:57] <brainwash> a gui to change some settings is available too -> https://launchpad.net/light-locker-settings
[21:03] <astraljava> brainwash: Ahh... cool, thanks!
[21:04] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, ping
[21:05] <Noskcaj> do the CVEs affect 0.3.2? If so, does that patch at http://paste.ubuntu.com/7012588/ fix it?
[21:07] <astraljava> Unit193: Did you know of a way to get xfce4-terminal tab respond quicker from ssh timeout when connection was lost? gnome said you might.
[21:23] <Unit193> astraljava: I'm having problems parsing what you said, but were you looking for ServerAliveInterval ?
[21:43] <brainwash> how do I install an additional package from within a program? my current approach would be to spawn a shell and run apt-get
[21:43] <brainwash> bug 1270090
[21:44] <Noskcaj> brainwash, USC, LSC, synaptic
[21:44] <brainwash> time-admin requires synaptic an gksudo to install ntp, but we don't ship that anymore
[21:44] <brainwash> isn't there some lightweight solution?
[21:45] <brainwash> some update-manager magic?
[21:45] <Noskcaj> probably
[21:47] <brainwash> on top of that, I'm not even sure if the ntp is still recommended
[21:47] <brainwash> the ntp daemon
[22:02] <ali1234> brainwash: package-kit
[22:02] <ali1234> !info packagekit
[22:03] <ali1234> you just request that a package be installed on dbus
[22:03] <ali1234> the service does all the rest
[22:05] <slickymaster> jjfrv8, ping if you want me to do anything, or help you, with the panel customization and MenuLibre paragraphs
[22:07] <elfy> slickymaster: you can have a look at this for me at some point - that'd be helpful :) https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
[22:07] <slickymaster> on it elfy 
[22:08] <elfy> no rush - today will be fine :p
[22:08] <slickymaster> lol
[22:08] <elfy> or tomorrow or the day after ... 
[22:08] <elfy> I'll not be syncing in any hurry
[22:09] <slickymaster> better speed up then, there's just a few hours left until this day last stroke
[22:09] <elfy> lol - I'm off soon 
[22:09] <elfy> been sitting here most of the day 
[22:10] <slickymaster> I'll drop a review there
[22:10] <elfy> ok cheers slickymaster :)
[22:12] <elfy> cya slickymaster 
[22:12] <jjfrv8> slickymaster, thanks for the offer. I'll holler if I get stuck but I don't think there should be that much work involved.
[22:22] <slickymaster> ok jjfrv8 
[22:24] <slickymaster> jjfrv8: I'm going through the docs just to double check for any occurrences where the xub icon might be inserted like you did in you MP: http://imagebin.org/296326
[22:26] <jjfrv8> you mean places where it isn't now but we want it?
[22:27] <slickymaster> yes, jjfrv8 
[22:28] <slickymaster> I don't expect them to exist but no harm will come just for double checking
[22:28] <jjfrv8> good deal
[22:29] <jjfrv8> I know there are lots of (xub logo)->Settings Manager references and I'm wondering about the best way to handle that
[22:29] <jjfrv8> I thought maybe...
[22:30] <jjfrv8> something like the disclaimer we have about Thunar in Ch. 3...
[22:30] <jjfrv8> we'll mention where the icon is on the menu and then say "from here on out, we're just going to call it "Settings Manager"
[22:30] <jjfrv8> what do you think?
[22:40] <jjfrv8> what I mean is, we'll keep it like this: http://imagebin.org/296390 , but we will have explained up front that SM is the icon found at the bottom of the WM window
[22:46] <jjfrv8> chow time. back later
[22:50] <slickymaster> elfy, reviewed -> https://code.launchpad.net/~elfy/ubuntu-manual-tests/menuchange/+merge/208763
[22:51] <slickymaster> jjfrv8: agree with that. I think that's a sane approach 
[22:52] <slickymaster> let's us see what knome and Unit193 think about it
[22:52] <Unit193> >_>
[22:53] <Unit193> What's it look like now?
[22:56] <slickymaster> now there are quite a few (xub logo)->Settings Manager references that could be dropped
[22:56] <slickymaster> elfy, just added the 'Needs fixing' tag to your MP, due to that line 7 in the Xchat testcase
[22:57] <Unit193> Isn't there a settings manager button in Whisker?
[22:59] <slickymaster> yes, and SM will be added to the whisker's favorites
[23:00] <slickymaster> better putted, there's the SM icon in whisker
[23:06] <Unit193> So it's still there, and all that is correct...
[23:07] <slickymaster> what is Unit193?
[23:08] <Unit193> (xub logo)->Settings Manager
[23:09] <slickymaster> yes, but that's not the point
[23:09] <Unit193> Oki.
[23:09] <slickymaster> the point is wether we could drop a few of those (xub logo)->Settings Manager
[23:09] <slickymaster> through out the docs
[23:10] <slickymaster> something like jjfrv8 said:
[23:10] <slickymaster> 14:30  jjfrv8: something like the disclaimer we have about Thunar in Ch. 3...
[23:10] <slickymaster> 14:30  jjfrv8: we'll mention where the icon is on the menu and then say "from here on out, we're just going to call it "Settings Manager"
[23:12] <Unit193> I saw that, but don't much see the point as to why.  Sure we could, but it's not really taking up space and forces consistency.
[23:14] <slickymaster> I don't think that it would result in a drop of consistency and OTOH I think it would make it more... hmmm
[23:14] <slickymaster> let try to find the right qualifier
[23:14] <slickymaster> +me
[23:15] <Unit193> I didn't see the reason *why* though, so may be missing something.
[23:15] <slickymaster> less distracting in reading termns
[23:15] <slickymaster> erms
[23:16] <slickymaster> igh
[23:16] <slickymaster> terms
[23:16]  * Unit193 checks on slickymaster.
[23:16] <slickymaster> lol
[23:16] <slickymaster> no need
[23:17] <slickymaster> I'm still trying to explain you what I'm trying to mean bit I lack the words
[23:17] <jjfrv8> slickymaster, iirc, knome preferred not to add settings manager to Favorites
[23:17] <slickymaster> and typing something with my mind in another thing results in that
[23:17] <jjfrv8> that's why I'm a little concerned about having to point ppl to an icon
[23:18] <slickymaster> jjfrv8: I was under the impression that we wasn't realy inclined in either possibilities
[23:19] <slickymaster> let me check that
[23:19] <jjfrv8> I'll have to go back and read it again
[23:19] <knome> i don't mind either way.
[23:19] <knome> you should be in touch with ochosi about the final decision
[23:20] <slickymaster> you could have been faster knome http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/02/28/%23xubuntu-devel.html#t13:47
[23:20] <slickymaster> :P
[23:20] <knome> ;)
[23:22] <slickymaster> knome: not sure if already had the chance to catch up with the backlog, but when you do, what do you think about jjfrv8 idea on eventually dropping some of the (xub logo)->Settings Manager
[23:22] <jjfrv8> my memory's not so good :/
[23:23] <knome> let me quickly go through it.
[23:24]  * slickymaster will have a smoke in the meanwhile
[23:24] <jjfrv8> no, not to drop them. To leave them but explaining that there's really no "Settings Manager" entry, it's the icon we're referring to
[23:28] <slickymaster> oh, so I completely misunderstood your idea jjfrv8 
[23:30] <slickymaster> don't get me wrong Unit193, I know that the docs are meat to everyone entering the xubuntu ecosystem, but some times I can't shake the feeling that all those logos make the text somewhat childish
[23:31] <slickymaster> and please don't take the term childish literally
[23:31] <slickymaster> s/meat/meant :P
[23:32] <slickymaster> but I'll drop it
[23:35] <knome> we might be solving a non-problem
[23:36] <jjfrv8> so anyway... if we say something like "when we say (xub logo)->Settings Manager, we're referring to that little icon"...
[23:36] <jjfrv8> then we leave all the current references as is...
[23:37] <jjfrv8> and if SM eventually makes it into Favorites, we only have to remove one sentence.
[23:37] <knome> we could change it to "(logo)->(settings_icon) Settings Manager
[23:37] <jjfrv8> that's okay too
[23:38] <knome> afair, they are entities in the xubuntu.ent file. it's easy enough to change them
[23:38] <knome> even backa forth a bit, and test different options
[23:38] <knome> *back and forth
[23:38] <slickymaster> is the settings' icon file already in the entities file?
[23:39]  * slickymaster checks
[23:39] <knome> probably not, but it's also easy enough to add it
[23:39] <knome> we need to add it for the panel introduction section anyway
[23:39] <jjfrv8> no, but I've found the 16px versions of all four
[23:40] <jjfrv8> and was going to add them to entities
[23:40] <slickymaster> no it isn't, it'll have to be added
[23:42] <slickymaster> presently just the packages and the key icons are there
[23:43] <Unit193> Ok, well I haven't used whisker enough to know what's located where.
[23:43] <Unit193> slickymaster: That may be the case, but we're mostly using words with a little visual aid, at least IMO.
[23:44] <slickymaster> Unit193 and you're right. The problem is in me not in the docs per si
[23:45] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: the CVEs affect all known versions of catfish, and that patch should fix it for the same
[23:45] <Noskcaj> ok. thanks.
[23:46] <Noskcaj> D you have any idea how i'd go about writing tests for catfish, mugshot, etc? At least enough to stop me making uploads that break things
[23:47] <bluesabre> we could probably make some simple autopilot tests
[23:48] <bluesabre> but I personally recommend having a vm for debian and ubuntu, making snapshots before installing a test package, and reverting that snapshot as needed
[23:48] <bluesabre> that's how I struggle through packaging most of the time
[23:49] <Noskcaj> I lack the hardware to use VMs, so i was hoping there was some way to have built time/autopkg tests
[23:49] <Noskcaj> I'll see if i can make a quick autopilot test though
[23:50] <jjfrv8> howdy, bluesabre 
[23:50] <bluesabre> you can also bounce packages off of me to test as needed
[23:51] <bluesabre> hey jjfrv8, what's up?
[23:51] <jjfrv8> do you have a version of MenuLibre available for testing that has the top-level and directory addition enhancements in it?
[23:51] <bluesabre> I will in less than 24 hours
[23:51] <bluesabre> are you around this weekend?
[23:51] <jjfrv8> tomorrow, Sunday's doubtful
[23:52] <bluesabre> actually, most of the fixes are present at lp:menulibre
[23:52] <bluesabre> https://code.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master
[23:52] <bluesabre> see revisions 107-113
[23:53] <bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~menulibre-dev/menulibre/master/changes
[23:53] <bluesabre> still working out some bugs there, but you may be able to do some testing
[23:54] <bluesabre> otherwise, I'll probably have a new release out tomorrow, time permitting
[23:55] <jjfrv8> I'll probably wait for that then. I don't know how to install from master (don't think, anyway)
[23:56] <bluesabre> yeah, you're better off that way
[23:56] <bluesabre> if you get eager, you can do a user install with
[23:56] <bluesabre> python3 setup.py install --user
[23:58] <jjfrv8> if I get my chapter update done, I might experiment :)
[23:59] <brainwash> bluesabre: hey, do you think that xubuntu should ship some stock profile pictures?