[00:00] <daftykins> i've only bought two - didn't really touch much of the first except Darwinia
[00:02] <shauno> darwinia was neat
[00:03] <shauno> most the introversion games are.  I think uplink was the first software I ever bought just because it had linux compatibility on the box
[00:08] <daftykins> :D
[00:08] <daftykins> i remember seeing a housemate play some
[00:08] <daftykins> with the gigaquad modems or something, heh
[00:12] <arsen> like the look of this xps13 ultrabook - not bad
[00:12] <arsen> tad pricey
[00:16] <daftykins> i'm not convinced battery life would be good
[00:18] <arsen> who knows
[00:19] <arsen> frankly the laptop market is a mess - too many choices, no clear winners, i still find it hard to think anything is better than a mac - and ironically nowadays macs seem good VFM
[00:19] <daftykins> Dell!
[00:19] <daftykins> :D
[00:19] <arsen> what hope do we have!
[00:19] <daftykins> i have a US mate who shopped around for ages then gave in and went MBP, ja
[00:19] <daftykins> i got a nice Lenovo for the boss' kid the other day
[00:19] <daftykins> i may've mentioned? not sure
[00:20] <daftykins> but yeah you really need to drop closer to a grand to get it all i think
[00:20] <daftykins> i'd be prepared to buy something good with bad storage then put in my own SSD, but meh
[00:21] <arsen> yep thatd be fine
[00:21] <arsen> but SSDs are pretty common now sadly
[00:21] <arsen> i even have one in my desktop!
[00:22] <arsen> im starting to get annoyed with windows on my gaming PC - but until steam gets games upto scratch in steamos/linux i cant really flip
[00:25] <daftykins> why would commonality be sad?
[00:25] <shauno> I'm the other way around there .. I want to put together a htpc, but steamos has added a chunk to the requirements
[00:25] <daftykins> hehe
[00:25] <daftykins> i still see PC gaming as at a desk and console gaming on my TV
[00:26] <arsen> as in - its hard to find bargains with non-SSD where its cheap to put the SSD in than buy with already installed :p
[00:26] <daftykins> sadly most of my mates still play on consoles only
[00:26] <daftykins> arsen: ah yes
[00:26] <arsen> pah  - we all still game 'properly' ;)
[00:26] <daftykins> 'tis either paltry unknown model 128GB or a 500GB-1TB with 8GB NAND SSHD
[00:27] <arsen> i have the cruical SSD that was on a deal for black friday.
[00:27] <arsen> got a super nice intel one at work sat in a drawer never being used - a measely 32gig hah
[00:27] <arsen> definitely gona find itself as my steamOS console OS disk ;)
[00:28] <daftykins> ^_^
[00:28] <daftykins> i have the 40GB V-series intel in my HTPC
[00:29] <shauno> I want a new ssd :/  128GB is starting to feel a tad tight
[00:30] <daftykins> OS only?
[00:31] <shauno> kinda everything.  I symlink to rust selectively
[00:31] <arsen> ooh free upgrade to 100meg this year :D
[00:31] <shauno> putting home on hdd seems a bit daft, it gets accessed more than the OS does
[00:32] <arsen> right on that happy note - time to watch some TV in bed.
[00:36] <daftykins> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/b4f29be1fa739ac22496c36c846024e4.html
[00:36] <daftykins> look at my tubes
[00:36] <daftykins> packet loss at every one of those red lines
[00:36] <arsen> :D
[00:37] <daftykins> 'tis muchly odd
[00:37] <daftykins> arsen: us rockdwellers have 40/5 for £35/mo now! D:
[00:37] <arsen> see if aaisp will service your small island :p
[00:37] <arsen> wow - they've been laying pipes!
[00:37] <daftykins> ?
[00:37] <daftykins> oh given my service?
[00:38] <arsen> errrrrrrrr ? :p
[00:38] <daftykins> i don't think infrastructure has ever been that bad, in terms of off-island connectivity
[00:38] <arsen> AAISP = good ISP, i assume you wont be able to get their service but you'd be a fan.
[00:38] <arsen> i thought you guys had suffered for a while
[00:38] <daftykins> i mean what's the 'laying pipes' bit about?
[00:38] <daftykins> yeah the french link seemed to do a lot
[00:38] <arsen> or was it just .. expensive?
[00:39] <daftykins> well they pretty rapidly kept doubling everyone's speeds
[00:39] <daftykins> half megabit to 1, to 2, to 4, to 8, to 16
[00:39] <daftykins> i was disappointed they didn't implement packages
[00:39] <arsen> arh. gothca.
[00:40] <arsen> okay must dash before she gets angry.
[00:40] <arsen> tara :)
[00:41] <daftykins> o/
[01:56] <mapps> O_o
[07:12] <foobarry> http://highscalability.com/blog/2014/2/26/the-whatsapp-architecture-facebook-bought-for-19-billion.html good techie POV
[07:33] <foobarry> One of the few but lingering complaints about the Raspberry Pi is that it relies on a proprietary GPU blob for communication between the graphics drivers and the hardware. Today, Broadcom released the full source for the OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0 driver stack for the Broadcom VideoCore IV 3D graphics subsystem running on one of its popular cellphone systems-on-a-chip
[07:34] <foobarry> The SoC in question is similar to the one used on the Raspberry Pi, and Eben Upton says making a port should be 'relatively straightforward.
[07:34] <ali1234> lol
[07:35] <ali1234> two years ago they were saying "the source and documentation is so complicated that it would take a team of hundreds of engineers years to understand it"
[07:35] <foobarry> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6299
[07:36] <ali1234> and "there is no way any of it would be of any possible use to anyone because it is so complicated"
[07:37] <foobarry> are they quotes from the broadcom employee? :P
[07:37] <ali1234> yes
[07:37] <ali1234> i'm looking for them now
[07:39] <foobarry> politics innit
[07:40] <ali1234> hae they actually released any code that runs on the main core?
[07:40] <ali1234> or any documentation for it?
[07:40] <ali1234> or is this just source for yet-another shim?
[07:43] <foobarry> its in the link ^^
[07:43] <ali1234> yeah i';m too lazy to read it
[07:43] <foobarry> Earlier today, Broadcom announced the release of full documentation for the VideoCore IV graphics core, and a complete source release of the graphics stack under a 3-clause BSD license. The source release targets the BCM21553 cellphone chip, but it should be reasonably straightforward to port this to the BCM2835, allowing access to the graphics core without using the blob
[07:43] <ali1234> that doesn't actually answer my question
[07:43] <ali1234> *which* blob?
[07:43] <ali1234> the raspberry pi is currently unusable without several
[07:49] <foobarry> there's a bit of discussion about that
[07:50] <foobarry> on http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/2221
[07:52] <ali1234> "The instruction set of the GPU would give away how a lot of the speed is  achieved if it were published, and since no-one (outside Broadcom)  has  access to the compiler and assembler (they are commercial and cost a  lot of money), there seems little point in publishing it anyway. And to  be honest, the only people who really understand some of the more  esoteric instruction sets of some of the more esoteric cores on the chip  are the people who desig
[07:52] <foobarry> some people take your line: "I guarantee you that the shader compiler is not written in VHDL. The driver, the thing that controls the hw, is in the ?firmware? blob. There is nothing ?driver? about the RPC shim code that was released."
[07:52] <ali1234> yep
[07:52] <ali1234> that is well know
[07:52] <ali1234> you can disassemble their blob and find the function which is labelled "shader_compiler"
[07:53] <ali1234> but you can't disassemble it because the GPU core uses an undocumented proprietary instruction set
[07:53] <foobarry> others say at least make it possible to provide the necessary Wayland EGL support for hardware compositing.
[07:53] <ali1234> (which has already been mostly reverse-engineered by the way)
[07:54] <ali1234> btw what you just linked is 18 months old
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/6299#comments
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> that's the newest announcement
[07:55] <foobarry> argh
[07:55] <ali1234> i'm just trapped in a maze of press eleases
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> all different?
[07:55] <ali1234> where is the actual source code and documentation?
[07:55] <ali1234> all alike
[07:55] <MartijnVdS> I had a PDF earlier
[07:55] <foobarry> thats why the link said "ur existing open-source graphics drivers are a thin shim running on the ARM11,"
[07:56] <ali1234> hmm ... we have an architecture reference guide
[07:56] <ali1234> it's 111 pages... that's tiny
[07:56] <MartijnVdS> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/raspberry-pi-marks-2nd-birthday-with-plan-for-open-source-graphics-driver/ has links
[07:56] <foobarry> http://www.broadcom.com/support/
[07:56] <foobarry> http://www.broadcom.com/docs/support/videocore/Brcm_Android_ICS_Graphics_Stack.tar.gz
[07:59] <ali1234> "Nobody needs direct access to the GPU except the people who are *able*  to write code for it, and that is very few people indeed. And there is  no need for access to the GPU blob in order to maintain compatibility  with the Linux ABI. That's the job of the low level drivers on the Arm  side."
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: who says that?
[08:00] <ali1234> a broadcom employee, on the raspberry pi forum
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> when?
[08:00] <ali1234> 2011
[08:00] <MartijnVdS> Just broadcom being broadcom then
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> they're the same with wifi chips
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> very similar to nvidia imho.
[08:01] <ali1234> yeah
[08:01] <ali1234> don't believe they are doing this out of the goodness of their heart
[08:01] <ali1234> they're doing it because the videocore is a security nightmare
[08:05] <ali1234> doesn't look like this contains the source of the bootloader
[08:06] <MartijnVdS> that's next, once they stop selling that chip to anyone but RPi foundation
[08:07] <ali1234> the documentation doesn't describe how to write a bootloader either
[08:07] <ali1234> so you still can't boot the thing without their proprietary watchdog OS
[08:15] <foobarry> what do you guys use for dedrm calibre?
[08:15] <MartijnVdS> nothing
[08:15] <foobarry> seems...not very straightforward on linux
[08:15] <foobarry> and wine/windowsy
[08:15] <foobarry> i have a kobo and need to read books purchased from amazon :S
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> why do you buy books from Amazon if you have a kobo?
[08:16] <MartijnVdS> Or, why buy a kobo if you have Amazon books?
[08:17] <foobarry> books from amazon are usually best value and i regularly take advantage of their 99p books
[08:17] <foobarry> and i often have amazon vouchers
[08:17] <MartijnVdS> .. so you bought a Kindle
[08:17] <foobarry> i don't wnt to be locked in to kindle for the rest of my life
[08:18] <foobarry> and the kobo was £30
[08:19] <foobarry> its straightforward if you have the kindle PIN but if your books are on kindle for pc or kindle cloud its a pain
[09:59] <diddledan> mornin
[10:00] <shauno> o/
[10:01] <MartijnVdS> \o
[10:04] <diddledan> \o/
[10:04] <diddledan> `\o/'
[10:04] <diddledan> argh
[10:05] <diddledan> broken hand by the looks
[10:05] <MartijnVdS> or wrist
[10:05] <shauno> or maybe he's just suuuuuper excited to see you
[10:06] <diddledan> why's there a kitty in the topic?!
[10:07] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: because it's cute!
[10:07] <diddledan> that's hardly ubuntu-related, though :-p
[10:38] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[10:39] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:41] <DJones> Hurry up delivery man
[10:41] <DJones> Patience is not my strong point when waiting for new toys
[10:53] <popey> DJones: what you waiting for?
[10:53] <DJones> popey: New laptop
[10:54] <DJones> Lenovo Y510p
[10:54]  * popey googles
[10:55] <DJones> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-Y510p-15-6-inch-Notebook-Processor/dp/B00FSBFBD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393351633&sr=8-1&keywords=y510p
[10:55] <popey> golly
[10:55] <DJones> Seems like a cracking price for the specification
[10:57] <DJones> Wanted a new laptop with 1920*1080 display at 15.6", that was the best spec'd without going up to £1K
[10:57] <DJones> Even if you go up to 16Gb ram with a 8Gb SSD cache, you can still find them below 1K
[10:58] <popey> nice
[10:58] <DJones> It'll make an interesting test for Trusty
[10:59] <popey> yeah ☻
[11:00] <DJones> Thats after the obligatory 24 hrs creating windows recovery media & updating everything on the windows side
[11:01] <diddledan> one think I really hate about modern laptops is the idiocy of putting the trackpad on the left
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> it's great!
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> <- left-handed
[11:01] <diddledan> my hand goes to the center of the lappy when hunting for the damned trackpad
[11:02] <popey> \o/ trackpint
[11:02] <popey> *point
[11:02] <popey> although pints are fine too
[11:02] <diddledan> so I end up completely missing the thing
[11:02]  * DJones tracks popey's pint, table to mouth ... and back
[11:02] <diddledan> DJones: GPS?
[11:03] <diddledan> +XRay?
[11:03] <DJones> diddledan: Yeah, sort of, although the gps tracker might be in his hand rather than on the glass
[11:03]  * diddledan irradiates popey 
[11:05] <DJones> Hmmh, Sainsbury's delivery van isn't delivering a laptop
[11:05] <diddledan> o_O
[11:07] <DJones> Does this look a safe way to install Trust for dualboot with Win 8 http://paste.ubuntu.com/7015434/
[11:07] <DJones> Or are there any quirks/better methods with trusty
[11:08] <popey> I'd point to directhex
[11:08] <DJones> Ta, will bug him later then
[11:09] <directhex> i don't get the boot repair bit
[11:09] <directhex> or the disable SB bit
[11:11] <diddledan> secureboot shouldn't be an issue anymore?
[11:11] <diddledan> I thought I read that we got a certificate from MS for the bootloader?
[11:11] <DJones> diddledan: So just turn off fast boot, install & bob's your uncle ?
[11:11] <directhex> just make sure /boot is plenty big
[11:12] <directhex> needs to be ~3x bigger than without SB
[11:12] <diddledan> o_O
[11:12] <diddledan> I wasn't aware of that
[11:13] <directhex> well, you need space for your kernel, and initrd
[11:13] <directhex> and signed kernel, and signed initrd
[11:13] <directhex> and temp space for creation of signed initrd
[11:13] <DJones> I wouldn't specify a partition for /boot, will just go with the typical /, /swap & /home, maybe 100Gb for / and 400Gb for /home, thats probably way over the top for / but will be plenty of space anyway
[11:13] <directhex> that's probably true if you aren't using encrypted /
[11:13] <directhex> which we do
[11:14] <ali1234> why does it need to be bigger *without* SB?
[11:15] <ali1234> wait never mind i misread
[11:15] <directhex> wife's PC is boned /o\
[11:16] <DJones> Repairable?
[11:16] <diddledan> I hope you're not a teenager ("I totally boned that")
[11:16] <diddledan> referring to a female usually
[11:16] <DJones> Hopefully not in the Trigger's broom style of repair
[11:17] <foobarry> finally able to read my own books. now to replicate on linux
[11:17] <diddledan> I love how such a throwaway thing has entered public consciousness as a simile
[11:18] <directhex> ask not for whom the bone bones. it bones for thee
[11:18] <directhex> DJones, still diagnosing. might just be RAM, might be much worse than that
[11:18] <directhex> (cpu or mobo)
[11:18] <foobarry> http://www.theverge.com/2014/2/28/5457160/fortress-investment-group-reports-a-3-7-million-loss-on-bitcoin
[11:18] <foobarry> stifles a lol
[11:19] <ali1234> RBS lost £47 billion
[11:19] <ali1234> they're only worth £58 billion
[11:19] <directhex> 57243 errors in first pass
[11:19] <directhex> looks like a lot of 1-bit errors
[11:20] <directhex> e.g. Expected: 00000000 Actual: 00000100
[11:21] <diddledan> ali1234: hence why it required the public to buy them to keep them afloat
[11:21] <ali1234> diddledan: no, they lost *another* £47 billion
[11:21] <diddledan> oh god
[11:21] <diddledan> that's seriously impressive then
[11:22] <diddledan> thank god they're not owned by the public then >.<
[11:22] <ali1234> actually that might not be totally accurate
[11:23] <ali1234> this is losses since the bailout
[11:23] <diddledan> it doesn't matter if they make a loss. they're officially a government department now which means it's a requisite
[11:23] <ali1234> i don't know if that means it includes the losses that required bailing out in the first place
[11:24] <diddledan> I should think there's some sort of explanation going on akin to those of yes minister
[11:25] <ali1234> they announced a loss of £28 billion on the same day as the bailout was announced
[11:25] <ali1234> so i'm still none the wise
[11:25] <ali1234> r
[11:27] <ali1234> ah, it's including the original loss
[11:28] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:28] <ali1234> i'm guessing now all that money is gone, the government shares will be sold at a loss and they will magically start being profitable again
[11:29]  * popey plays portal 2
[11:29] <bigcalm> Is it on Linux now?
[11:29] <popey> ya
[11:29] <popey> beta
[11:29] <bigcalm> \o/
[11:29]  * bigcalm runs to steam
[11:30] <bigcalm> "You do not have enough disk space available to run this game."
[11:30] <bigcalm> Arse
[11:31] <ali1234> hmm... i need to get a new hard drive
[11:31]  * bigcalm deletes everything
[11:31] <ali1234> 1TB is now < £50
[11:32] <popey> 480GB SSDs are becoming reasonable now
[11:33] <ali1234> in fact 2TB are so cheap it's not even worth buying 1TB
[11:36] <foobarry> my son has a cd of the most hidoues songs ever made
[11:36] <foobarry> and keeps playing it
[11:37] <DJones> diddledan: foobarry Now Thats What I call (Aweful) Music 27 ?
[11:37] <DJones> - diddledan
[11:38] <foobarry> kfc pizza hut, steps, cotton eye joe
[11:38] <foobarry> oo aa walla walla bing bang
[11:38] <foobarry> star trekkin (worst song ever)
[11:38] <bigcalm> :O
[11:39] <bigcalm> How dare you
[11:39] <bigcalm> Best song ever
[11:39] <foobarry> they have to repeat every line 3 times, it kills me
[11:40] <foobarry> he used to have good taste
[11:40]  * bigcalm finds a 4.8GB backup left over from the last SSD swap. That can go
[11:40] <foobarry> follow the leader A|ARRGH
[11:40] <bigcalm> How old is he?
[11:40] <foobarry> 4
[11:40] <foobarry> he used to like the beatles, adele and sufjan stevens
[11:41] <ali1234> i'm still waiting for someone to make a kim dotcom/michael buble mashup called dotcom buble
[11:41] <foobarry> he's been choosing cds on the stereo since he was able to stnad
[11:41] <foobarry> he's like, folder 5, track 15, daddy likes that one
[11:41] <foobarry> walking jukebox
[11:42] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:42] <foobarry> blue cd track 6
[11:42] <bigcalm> Blue, the group?
[11:43] <foobarry> no..just a blue coloured one
[11:43] <foobarry> can't believe the time i spent on this ebook problem the other night
[11:44] <foobarry> now it works
[11:44] <foobarry> should really write it down for next tiem
[11:49] <bigcalm> Portal 2 won't load for me :(
[11:50] <bigcalm> Game update: AppID 620 "Portal 2 (Beta)", ProcID 5177, IP 0.0.0.0:0
[11:50] <bigcalm> ERROR: ld.so: object '/home/iain/.local/share/Steam/ubuntu12_32/gameoverlayrenderer.so' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.
[11:50] <bigcalm> /bin/sh: 1: /home/iain/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: not found
[11:50] <diddledan> does that sh file exist?
[11:51] <foobarry> do kindles have micro sd slots?
[11:51] <bigcalm> Yes
[11:51] <bigcalm> no
[11:51] <bigcalm> Not the one I sold to my mum
[11:51] <foobarry> my £30 kobo does..handy
[11:51] <bigcalm> diddledan: the file exists
[11:51] <diddledan> try running it manually?
[11:52] <penguin42> bigcalm: If it's a shell script, does it have a #! at the top and does the path in that exist?
[11:52] <bigcalm> penguin42: /bin/bash and yet
[11:53] <bigcalm> yes
[11:53] <bigcalm> Ah, looks to be a line ending problem
[11:53] <bigcalm> Damn windows people
[11:53] <bigcalm> bash: .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: /bin/bash^M: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
[11:54] <popey> well, portal2 works perfectly here. nice work valve
[11:54] <penguin42> bigcalm: You didn't download the file on windows and transfer it to Linux did you?
[11:55] <bigcalm> penguin42: no, I used linux steam
[11:57]  * bigcalm goes to try it on the new laptop
[11:58] <foobarry> strange, calibre thinks that kobo doesn't understand mobi format and isnists on converting them to epub
[11:58] <foobarry> but it does
[11:58] <ali1234> calibre is terrible
[11:58] <penguin42> bigcalm: It sounds like it's gone through a cr/lf conversion one time too many doesn't it - I wonder where that happened
[12:03] <bigcalm> penguin42: I ran fromdos on the launcher and then hit another error:
[12:03] <bigcalm> iain@snafu2:~$ .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal\ 2/portal2.sh
[12:03] <bigcalm> .local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/portal2.sh: line 40: /home/iain/.local/share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Portal 2/: Is a directory
[12:03] <bigcalm> So I've given up on this system and currently downloading on my laptop
[12:04] <penguin42> bigcalm: The thing is if it screwed one file up it's unlikely it's the only screwed up file
[12:04] <bigcalm> True
[12:05]  * bigcalm consoles himself with a banana
[12:06] <foobarry> calibre installer: sudo -v && wget -nv -O- https://github.com/kovidgoyal/calibre/raw/master/setup/linux-installer.py | sudo python -c "import sys; main=lambda:sys.stderr.write('Download failed\n'); exec(sys.stdin.read()); main()"
[12:06] <foobarry> yuck!
[12:06] <foobarry> meanwhile ubuntu has really old version in repos
[12:07] <diddledan> isn't calibre the one that ships with a "helper" script that allows anybody to do anything with any /dev device?
[12:08] <foobarry> :(
[12:08] <diddledan> http://lwn.net/Articles/465311/
[12:08] <foobarry> scared to click
[12:10] <foobarry> i clicked
[12:13] <foobarry> the mobi thing is fixable but strange since mobi support has been there since forever
[12:15] <diddledan> looks like the ubuntu package has a replacement script - any it's not so much any /dev device but more any filesystem via mount
[12:15] <Laney> 'really old' being 1.25 when 1.26 came out yesterday
[12:16] <foobarry> i'm on 12.04
[12:16] <foobarry> maybe thats whats really old :)
[12:16] <foobarry> 0.86
[12:16] <foobarry> i have 1.26 now
[12:16] <Laney> 12.04 in having apps that came out before 2012/04 shocker :P
[12:16] <foobarry> and no ppa :(
[12:19] <foobarry> i can upgrade soon :D
[12:20] <foobarry> if 14.04 is same or better performance :D
[12:23] <bigcalm> penguin42: same error trying to run Portal 2 on my laptop
[12:23] <bigcalm> I give up
[12:32] <foobarry> so you choose small icons for calibre but the 2nd row of icons remains :(
[12:36] <foobarry> wow i only just discovered grid/civer view in calibre
[12:36] <foobarry> suddenly it looks nicer
[12:39] <foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/Hr0dhDH.png
[12:39] <foobarry> taken me 3 years to find that
[13:11] <popey> are they all books you've stripped drm from?
[13:11] <popey> I mean, its nice because it shows lots of metadata and covers etc
[15:10] <directhex> results are in, it's bad RAM
[15:15] <isleofmandan> Hi folks. Should a 'sudo do-release-upgrade -d' take my 13.10 laptop to the 14.04 beta. It seems to try but fails. Is that not supported in the beta releases?
[15:19] <AlanBell> isleofmandan: yes it should work
[15:19] <MartijnVdS> isleofmandan: what's the error?
[15:19] <AlanBell> however there isn't much 14.04 branding in place yet
[15:19] <isleofmandan> "Unable to determine the upgrade"
[15:19] <isleofmandan> I think it's looking for non-existent mirrors
[15:20] <isleofmandan> lots of lines that start Err:
[15:20] <AlanBell> oh yes, I moved to the main mirrors to get mine working rather than the gb ones
[15:20] <isleofmandan> Mine's looking for Isle of Man ones. Even less likely to exist!
[15:21] <AlanBell> 404 island not found
[15:21] <AlanBell> so in software sources you can change it to look to the main mirrors
[15:22] <AlanBell> actually, of all the places in the world, the Isle of Man mirrors would be at the top of my list of places I might expect stuff to just work ;)
[15:22] <isleofmandan> I know.. I actually the the im.ubuntu stuff is just a microserer in a cupboard under Mark's stairs ;)
[15:22] <isleofmandan> actually think....
[15:23] <AlanBell> he mentioned being told off for having too many servers in the garage at one point I think
[15:23] <isleofmandan> :)
[15:27] <isleofmandan> Seems to be downloading more stuff now I've moved to the main mirror
[15:28] <isleofmandan> but still no go.  Oh well.  I'll wait until it's properly cooked  ;)   Not that many changes from 13.10 anyway, from what I've been reading?
[15:46] <AlanBell> isleofmandan: locally integrated menus \o/
[15:46] <AlanBell> no more crazy apple style global menu thing
[15:47] <isleofmandan> Ah. Does that mean Libre Office works properly now? :)
[15:48] <AlanBell> yes, no menu oddness in LO that I have seen
[15:48] <isleofmandan> Hurrah. Worth the upgrade just for that then.
[15:48] <shauno> lol, that wasn't apple-style, that was "styled by someone who once saw a screenshot"
[15:48] <AlanBell> mousewheel over launcher icons has got slightly worse
[15:48] <AlanBell> shauno: ah, I have only seen a screenshot so, I thought it was apple style
[15:49] <AlanBell> I did use an apple a couple of times, but that was before they had colour screens
[15:49] <AlanBell> global menu was annoying then too
[15:50] <AlanBell> as was putting a floppy in the trash to eject it, because there was no eject button
[15:51] <isleofmandan> Global menus are always in the same place though! Fine if you're using a mouse, but a real PITA on a small touchpad on a laptop - it's a long way to the top left of the screen ;)
[15:51] <AlanBell> and everyone who spent more than 15 minutes trying to get their coursework floppy back out from a mac in 1992 can celibrate bug 764905
[15:54] <isleofmandan> It's funny what you get used to. I struggled with Unity when it was released. Took me a while to drive it properly. Now whenever I try other desktops, I always come back to using Unity!
[15:55] <AlanBell> after alt-tab got mostly fixed I stuck with unity, I was oscilating between unity and gnome-shell for some time
[15:56] <AlanBell> global menu I never really got used to
[15:56] <AlanBell> locally integrated menus I love instantly
[15:56] <AlanBell> I like the window handling, the compiz grid stuff
[15:57] <isleofmandan> Yes, Alt-Tab breakage was frustrating. I've a funny feeling I'll switch back to local menus too. I think only long-term Mac users would prefer global over local.
[15:57] <AlanBell> launcher is a bit of an acquired taste, now that right click shows a window list I like it more
[15:58] <shauno> they taught us to type on those old monochrome macs.  I coudn't stand them.  the drive made it look like it was a little face smirking at you
[15:58] <shauno> and now they're worth a few bob.  weird world
[15:58] <isleofmandan> I've seen screenshots where the launcher collapses, to show only open applications. Mine doesn't do that, so I'm always scrolling up and down to find my open windows....
[15:59] <AlanBell> scroll wheel on launcher icons doesn't currently move the z-order of the windows correctly, I keep meaning to video that but I am struggling to get audio and video happening at the same time on screencasts at the moment
[15:59] <isleofmandan> shauno: I doubt they'd be worth much if the 'cult of the shiny' hadn't evolved in recent years.
[16:00] <AlanBell> yeah, I occasionally remove stuff from the launcher to have more running things in view
[16:01] <AlanBell> trouble is that when you remove things from the launcher you know you will have to find them again one day in the dash
[16:01] <isleofmandan> I have very little on my launcher. Hitting the super key and typing a few letters work very well for me.
[16:03] <AlanBell> looks like the filters have completely gone from the dash now
[16:04] <isleofmandan> Think I'll download the .iso and have a look. I try to get onto the beta track so that a) I can do my bit and file bug reports, and b) Get a heads-up on new features so I can answer questions from the people on the island I persuaded to run Ubuntu full-time!
[16:21] <DJones> urg, 500mb of updates to go
[16:24] <jussi> only? :P
[16:26] <DJones> well, first pass for Windows
[16:26] <DJones> Probably a 2nd lot of 500mb still to come
[16:28] <jussi> oh windows. thatll take about 3 hours to install, then, no ?
[16:28] <jussi> :P
[16:29] <jussi> seriously, I hate those windows updates at shutdown. no idea if they stopped doing it, but it was still present on 7 last time i checked
[16:49] <daubers> Weeeeeeee
[16:49] <daubers> Got the eeepc running again
[16:49] <foobarry> popey: yes most are azw loaded from kindle for PC, and converted in calibre
[16:49] <isleofmandan> daubers: Which eeepc model?
[16:49] <daubers> isleofmandan: 701
[16:50] <foobarry> the default calibre view is more ugly but i discovered icons in the bottom corner i didn't know were there, to hide ugly and show covers
[16:50] <daubers> Just running debian in cli only :)
[16:50] <isleofmandan> daubers: Ah the original. I had one for quite a while. Nice idea.
[16:53] <daubers> isleofmandan: This one was originally popeys
[16:53] <daubers> Surprised how well it
[16:53] <daubers> s lasted tbh
[16:55] <isleofmandan> daubers: Mine was donated to my sister's kids. I don't know what happened after that, but they're all on Nexus 7 tablets now.
[16:55] <daubers> heh :)
[17:00]  * foobarry notices directhex getting quoted on lwn.net
[17:00] <foobarry> re: the engimail article
[17:09] <foobarry> anyone worked out how to get the weekly lwn.net bigpage delivered to e-reader?
[17:15] <foobarry> ah, lwn.net/free/bigpage or lwn.net/current/bigpage
[17:44] <DJones> Ah well, thats better than anticipated, just under an hour to update windows 8 & install win 8.1
[18:17] <directhex> only an hour?
[18:17] <directhex> i've been trying to get a decent install of windows 8.1 since yesterday evening
[18:17] <directhex> with 6 hours' break for sleep, 2 for food, and 1 for tesco
[18:31] <bigcalm> directhex: have you got portal 2 running in linux yet?
[18:31] <directhex> yes
[18:31] <bigcalm> Install and run or with some extra magic?
[18:32] <directhex> opt into the public beta, via the betas tab in properties
[18:32] <bigcalm> Done that
[18:32] <bigcalm> But only after downloading in steam
[18:33] <bigcalm> Don't really want to re-download the 6gb
[18:33] <directhex> it's a 60MB difference
[18:34] <directhex> also you might need to manually fix up the audio if you did it that way round
[18:34] <directhex> rename libmiles.so to libMiles.so
[18:35] <bigcalm> Most odd. It hasn't downloaded anything extra
[18:35]  * bigcalm drifts towards deleting local content
[18:40] <Laney> wine1.6 done broke my YNAB
[18:41] <popey> bigcalm: i didnt have to re-download anything, just opt in and it was all good
[18:45] <brobostigon> found an interesting new app, ncdu, an ncurses hdd space analyser.
[18:58] <hazrpg> \o
[19:00] <DJones> directhex: Yeah, surprised me, what I haven't managed yet is to create the recovery media though
[19:02] <Laney> come on 1.7
[19:03] <Laney> you can save me
[19:04] <Laney> yay!
[19:17] <directhex> ynab?
[19:20] <Laney> budgeting program
[19:26] <popey> MartijnVdS: banished any good?
[19:31] <directhex> oh, that's on steam
[19:31] <JorgeMariel_> somebody can help me?
[19:31] <JorgeMariel_> i did this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/306412/how-can-i-setup-my-touchpad-multi-finger-tapping-functionality/428066#428066
[19:32] <JorgeMariel_> and now my ubuntu doesnt start
[21:49] <DJones> ok, I'm impressed, after all the horror stories about windows 8 & dual booting, 14.04 installed without a hitch
[21:50] <penguin42> DJones: On an EFI machine or BIOS?
[21:51] <DJones> penguin42: EFI with secureboot turned off
[21:51] <penguin42> that's cheating :-)
[21:51] <DJones> Works for me :)
[22:47] <daftykins> XD