[01:11] <edipss> hi, is there any c++ developers?
[01:12] <edipss> I am new to programming, I would like to develop android apps using QT.
[01:12] <edipss> I tryed pyside for android, but I failed to use android sensors, and python libraries
[01:13] <arayaq> edipss: you might be on the wrong channel, this is for Ubuntu development, not Android. But if you are interested in programming Ubuntu apps, you are welcome
[01:13] <edipss> my question: c++ has rich modules like python? is it possible to install c++ modules in synaptic package or terminal?
[01:15] <edipss> arayaq: Ubuntu touch uses QML, and my question is actually ubuntu touch development too
[01:15] <arayaq> edipss: with modules you mean libraries?
[01:15] <edipss> sorry I joined here first time, I assumed this room for general development, but If I can develop android app using QT, It is possible to publish it for ubuntu touch too
[01:16] <edipss> yes
[01:16] <edipss> I especially would like to use scientific and geographic information system libraries
[01:16] <edipss> such as numpy, matplotlib
[01:17] <edipss> c++ has such libraries?
[01:18] <arayaq> edipss: a lot of libraries are already packaged and ready to install with apt-get (or synaptic), all you need to know is the package name
[01:18] <edipss> yes that sounds good
[01:18] <arayaq> edipss: and if the library if not packaged then is better to refer to their webite for instructions
[01:20] <edipss> arayaq: for example there are installed scientific libraries with apt-get.. when they are used in Ubuntu SDK for ubuntu touch project code, they are automatically packaged? or user needs to install them on repositories on device?
[01:23] <edipss> forexample it imported numpy in ubuntu touch project, and packaged this, when run the app on device, user needs to install numpy ? or it is automatically packaged by QT creator?
[01:23] <edipss> sorry for my bad english
[01:28] <edipss> c++ looks better than python..
[01:28] <sarnold> edipss: click packages will need to install whatever dependencies they require
[01:30] <edipss> sarnold: I dont know anythink about c++, I was studying about python QML, but it was not enough for me, so I decided to study about c++ with QT Quick 2. I wonder c++ libraries can be automatically install one package (deb)
[01:31] <sarnold> edipss: if you use a ppa or configure your own apt server, yes; if you use click packages so that your app appears in the ubuntu app store, no -- you will have to bundle those.
[01:34] <edipss> my os is Lubuntu, and installed many libraries I need. So I can use some scripts with imported libraries in ubuntu. but when this script is packages, its size may be 20 MB (because of installed packages).
[01:35] <edipss> python scripts with QT can be a few KB but when it is packaged by pyinstaller, it can be 15 MB.
[01:36] <edipss> my question is when creating a ubuntu touch package, this can be install required packages like pyinstaller?
[01:36] <edipss> this can install*
[01:40] <sarnold> edipss: I think some of these documents might help you understand what's possible, what's easy, and what's hard: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Specifications/ApplicationConfinement   http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/apps/security-policy-for-click-packages/
[01:42] <edipss> sarnold: Thank you!
[01:45] <edipss> good night rom
[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[09:06] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Grammar Day!  :-D
[09:39] <aquarius> hm. In the Music app, once I've picked a genre and it's showing me that list of songs, how do I get back out of it to the front screen?
[09:39] <aquarius> It worries me a lot that I cannot work this out :(
[09:40] <aquarius> ah, the little tiny bar at the top :(
[10:43] <suhaib> Man, this SDK is so cool. Got irc window inside :-O
[10:45] <suhaib> It would be nice if the Ubuntu team would create a youtube account for the developer summit and post all the videos there. it would be much easier to go back to it
[11:40] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: i can't find any FAIL in this CI log, but it seems the app crashed, can you have a quick look and let me know your opinion ? https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-runner-mako/5622/consoleFull
[11:42] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, as you can see from the end of the log file, there are crash files, so it looks like something crashed indeed
[11:42] <oSoMoN> gallery-app and unity8, apparently
[11:43] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: yeah, they were the only things running I guess, so doesn't help much. i'll give it another spin, see if it was a glitch in CI
[11:44] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, you should be able to access those crash files from within jenkins to retrace them
[11:45] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: didn't you try that already in the past and it proved to be a dead end because there was not enough info ?
[11:46] <oSoMoN> nerochiaro, not that I remember, if there are crash files they ought to be useful for debugging
[11:46] <nerochiaro> oSoMoN: ok, never did retracing before, any pointers at something doc i can look at ?
[12:48] <sahilgupta> I am new to ubuntu app development ...
[12:48] <sahilgupta> may i know from where to start??
[12:48] <nik90> sahilgupta: welcome
[12:48] <nik90> sahilgupta: I suggest you read http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/
[12:49] <nik90> sahilgupta: It introduces you to Ubuntu App Development and guides you through the entire process.
[12:49] <sahilgupta> What device I require Specific Mobile device or I can do it in my laptop
[12:49] <nik90> sahilgupta: The development can be done on your laptop
[12:50] <sahilgupta> k..
[12:50] <nik90> sahilgupta: May I ask which version of Ubuntu you are running?
[12:50] <sahilgupta> 12.04 LTS
[12:51] <nik90> sahilgupta: 12.04 LTS is fine, but I would recommend 14.04 LTS for development.
[12:51] <sahilgupta> I read this link first then come back to u...
[12:51] <nik90> sahilgupta: okay. have fun :)
[12:51] <sahilgupta> is it realeased??
[12:52] <nik90> the beta is out and is quite stable. I have been using it for the past 1-2 weeks.
[12:52] <nik90> It gets updates more frequently to the latest SDK and also the new ubuntu emulator
[12:53] <sahilgupta> I heard they gonna launch stable version in April. Is it true...
[12:56] <nik90> yes the stable release will be out on April 17th
[12:58] <nik90> kalikiana: I am almost done with the examples. Just need to clean the code a bit. Let me know when you are free to do a hangout
[12:58] <nik90> kalikiana: preferable >2-3 hours later :)
[13:05] <kalikiana> nik90: cool. just ping me when you're available
[13:08] <zsombi> mhall119: ping
[13:23] <nik90> dpm: ready for your session :) ?
[13:23] <dpm> nik90, rushing out to finish everything, but essentially, yes :)
[13:24] <nik90> dpm: :D
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I got a small issue with my advanced example
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I created a u1db doc with appDb.putDoc({ "username": userName.text, game: {"level": userlevel.text, "class": userClass.selectedIndex}})
[13:30] <nik90> kalikiana: I then created a index with expression expression: ["username", "game.level", "game.class"]
[13:31] <nik90> kalikiana: however in a listmodel when I output JSON.stringify(model.contents) of the query, I get {"class":0, "level":20}. It missed the username field
[13:32] <kalikiana> nik90: lemme see if this may be covered by https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/wonderiousFields/+merge/207968
[13:32] <nik90> kalikiana: it seems I haven't got the rev 113 update from trunk :/
[13:33] <nik90> kalikiana: I think it may be https://code.launchpad.net/~kalikiana/u1db-qt/entireContentsInQuery/+merge/203058
[13:33] <kalikiana> okay I'll check both
[13:36] <nik90> kalikiana: just sent you an email with the examples
[13:37] <GuillaumeQuittet> Hello
[13:37] <GuillaumeQuittet> Can someone help me please ?
[13:37] <nik90> GuillaumeQuittet: Hi
[13:37] <nik90> GuillaumeQuittet: Go ahead and ask your question. If someone knows the answer, they will help you. That's how IRC works
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> Ok thanks. I want to make a menu with qaction that change the program's interface.
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> So I used QActionGroup
[13:39] <GuillaumeQuittet> And QAction
[13:41] <GuillaumeQuittet> when I click the second time the connect doe not work.
[13:50] <jdstrand> zsombi: hey-- I think someone told me a while ago that you are responsible for the upcoming theming rework
[13:50] <jdstrand> zsombi: is that true?
[13:51] <kalikiana> nik90: unrelated but how about using image://theme/add and image://theme/save
[13:51] <nik90> kalikiana: would that work on the desktop?
[13:51] <jdstrand> zsombi: cause I was thinking about filing a couple of bugs, but wanted to talk to you to make sure they are useful instead of just noise
[13:51] <kalikiana> nik90: yes. there's actually a hack in place in the toolkit now to force that
[13:52] <nik90> kalikiana: oh..sure I will change that then
[13:53] <zsombi> jdstarand: theming rework?
[13:53] <zsombi> jdstrtand: ^
[13:53] <nik90> jdstrand: ^^
[13:54] <zsombi> jdstrand: the theming has been reworked, we're no longer use the CSSlike theme anymore... for ~8 months :)
[13:54] <kalikiana> nik90: so it seems I get the username with wonderiousFields but trunk/ entireContentsInQuery
[13:54] <kalikiana> *but not
[13:54] <nik90> kalikiana: how exactly do I put it? Should I replace the iconSource with image://theme/add ?
[13:54] <zsombi> jdstrand: but feel free to talk about your ideas!
[13:54] <kalikiana> nik90: iconSource: "image://theme/add"
[13:55] <zsombi> jdstrand: maybe we can find something that is valid on the new theming engine
[13:55] <AndrejP> hello all
[13:55] <nik90> kalikiana: ah thnx..I can start using this in the clock app as well :)
[13:56] <kalikiana> nik90: what will the query do, aside from the bug? right now it seems to just yield all docs
[13:56] <nik90> kalikiana: it is just supposed to display the username as the title and the userclass and userlevel as subtext in the Subtitled ListItem
[13:56] <GuillaumeQuittet> My bug is fixed now !! :)
[13:57] <nik90> kalikiana: it is basically a ListView which displays the players in a organised manner
[13:57] <nik90> kalikiana: This bug doesn't happen if I change the document structure to a single level. Something like  { username: "default", userclass: 0, userlevel: 0 } works as expected
[13:58] <kalikiana> nik90: strictly speaking you can do that by just putting the database in the ListView
[13:58] <mhall119> zsombi: pong
[13:58] <zsombi> mhall119: about the session tomorrow about the Layouts
[13:58] <nik90> kalikiana: true I can
[13:58] <zsombi> mhall119: anything special you guys would like to hear?
[13:58] <nik90> kalikiana: but I was thinking of extending it to later filter only those fields with class "Foot Soldier"
[13:59] <jdstrand> zsombi: ah, well, I hit these issues within the last couple months
[13:59] <zsombi> mhall119: I don't really have time to prepare any extra code other than the ones we have in the tutorial...
[13:59] <kalikiana> nik90: that was my question. what you're doing is fine, it just doesn't show query "in action" :-D
[13:59] <jdstrand> zsombi: basically, it all comes down to I'd like to support a 'light' theme for an app
[14:00] <jdstrand> zsombi: but it seems like I can't control the theming (maybe I haven't found what I need) enough
[14:00] <mhall119> zsombi: the one in the tutorial should be fine
[14:00] <nik90> kalikiana: true
[14:01] <zsombi> mhall119: so I'll use the tutorial for the session, I'll go thru it quickly and then leave Q&A time
[14:01] <kalikiana> nik90: since I doubt the fix branch would land in time even if it lifts off today, maybe it's best to just go with single level here
[14:01] <mhall119> zsombi: it's really meant to introduce the idea and answer questions
[14:01] <zsombi> jdstrand: yeah :) the tutorial it's not yet done for the theming
[14:01] <mhall119> zsombi: yeah
[14:01] <kalikiana> nik90: it would resolve it… but nobody will see it :-]
[14:01] <nik90> kalikiana: actually if I use the database as the model, it also shows the deleted documents as {}
[14:01] <zsombi> mhall119: ok, so an extra burden for me to create sample apps in such a busy time is taken away :)
[14:01] <jdstrand> zsombi: for example, OptionSelector - I can get in situations where the text color and the widget are too close
[14:02] <nik90> kalikiana: sure I will use a single level document for the session
[14:02] <jdstrand> and I can't seem to change it
[14:02] <dpm> sessing will start in a minute, sorting the hangout details...
[14:02] <jdstrand> zsombi: or being able to adjust placeHolderText color for TextField
[14:02] <dpm> (hi everyone! :)
[14:02] <zsombi> jdstrand: so you managed to get the app specific theme?
[14:02] <kalikiana> nik90: aaaaah there's that bug with deleted stuff in database as a model, I bet you're hitting that. sometimes I wish the database was not separate code path
[14:03] <jdstrand> zsombi: or changing the color of the background of a focused TextArea
[14:03] <jdstrand> zsombi: I probably did it all wrong
[14:03] <kalikiana> nik90: please stick to the * query then
[14:03] <nik90> kalikiana: I will use a Index and Query with a single document structure. This way I wouldn't hit either of those bugs
[14:03] <zsombi> jdstrand: well, unfortunately not every component's style is made so that by overriding it you can alter colors or so...
[14:03] <nik90> kalikiana: but this is what we need to fix once people start using u1db more and more
[14:04] <kalikiana> nik90: totally agree.
[14:04] <jdstrand> zsombi: usually I'm changing individual components' colors if the component has a 'color' or 'backgroundColor' available
[14:05] <kalikiana> I'm hopefully on to resolving the last failure in the branch soon
[14:05] <jdstrand> zsombi: but for OptionSelector, I actually did something horrible:
[14:05] <jdstrand> OptionSelector {
[14:05] <zsombi> jdstrand: and we don't have the API fixed for the styles...
[14:05] <jdstrand>   style: TextAreaStyle {
[14:05] <jdstrand>     background: UbuntuShape {
[14:05] <jdstrand>     radius: "medium"
[14:05] <jdstrand>     color: ...
[14:05] <jdstrand>   }
[14:05] <jdstrand> }
[14:05] <zsombi> jdstrabnd: omg... starts bad! :D
[14:06] <jdstrand> yes :)
[14:06] <dpm> anyone can hear/see the live stream?
[14:06] <candelibas> dpm: Yes
[14:06] <jdstrand> I don't even know why that works. I have a comment in the qml:
[14:06] <nik90> dpm: we see you
[14:06] <zsombi> jdstrand: remember, the styles usually use something from the styled component, so if you use TextAreaStyle, that may use the TExtField or TextArea properties :)
[14:07] <dpm> thanks guys
[14:07] <jdstrand> zsombi: what was weird was that I got the TextAreaStyle to work with OptionSelector
[14:07] <jdstrand> honestly, I tried to go through the api docs on theming, but came away very confused
[14:08] <jdstrand> perhaps I'll wait for the tutorial and then revisit
[14:08] <jdstrand> though, iirc, OptionSelector in particular didn't seem to have what I needed to change things
[14:08] <jdstrand> anyhoo-- if the theming is all in place, I'll just wait for the docs
[14:08] <zsombi> jdstrand: perhaps it doesn't use things from TextArea
[14:09] <zsombi> jdstrand: yeah, OPtionSelector is not the best component what comes to styling...
[14:09] <jdstrand> zsombi: well, the TextArea is just a total accident-- I copy/pasted something and forgot to change the TextAreaStyle to something else when I reloaded and noticed something changed
[14:10] <jdstrand> zsombi: so I went with it for now
[14:10] <KHendrik> Anyone else really having problem with the sound
[14:10] <zsombi> jdstrand: yes, the theming is up to date, it's the one we will use for sure, and yes, there will be a tutorial for that, hopefuly by 14.04...
[14:10] <nik90> KHendrik: nope
[14:10] <jdstrand> but, I actually don't have my light theme enabled cause there are a lot of things that don't work quite right
[14:11] <KHendrik> nik90, hmmevery second work is just cracking noise for me ...
[14:11] <nik90> KHendrik: tried refreshing the stream?
[14:11] <KHendrik> nik90, multiple times
[14:11] <nik90> weird
[14:12] <KHendrik> hmm seems its actually buffering
[14:13] <KHendrik> i don't understand why my connection is definetly fast enough
[14:22] <dpm> any questions on the concepts?
[14:30] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Can't we use QtCreator to generate POT files which for projects without CMAKE file?
[14:33] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Will these slides be available later for easy opening of the links mentioned in the slides?
[14:34] <dpm> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-weather-dev/ubuntu-weather-app/trunk/view/head:/po/CMakeLists.txt
[14:45] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Is there also a Google+ group for Ubuntu Translators?
[14:47] <nik90> dpm: QUESTION: Do you just need one CMAKELIST.txt file in the po folder? Or Do we need to convert the entire project to CMAKE?
[14:49] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/b/102330453873285638035/102330453873285638035/posts
[14:50] <dpm> https://www.facebook.com/ubuntu.translators
[14:58] <nik90> dpm: thnx for the session
[14:59] <dpm> nik90, you're welcome, thanks for listening in and for participating with your questions :)
[14:59] <nik90> dpm: np...I now have an idea on how to translate my flashback app
[14:59] <dpm> \o/
[15:00] <dpm> nik90, as I said, have a look at the weather app, which I had to fix after the port to cmake (other core apps will follow). You can grab just the cmake bits you need
[15:02] <dholbach> sorry, it's #ubuntu-app-devel
[15:02] <dholbach> not #ubuntu-on-air
[15:03] <dholbach> nevermind :)
[15:03] <nik90> dpm: will do
[15:07] <SKilly> The focus of the screen share isn't great ...
[15:07] <KHendrik> SKilly, looks good to me
[15:08] <KHendrik> maybe look at it directly on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsW52Iq2aPQ#t=174
[15:08] <dholbach> SKilly, do you feel the font should be bigger?
[15:08] <dholbach> any questions so far?
[15:09] <SKilly> no, it's just a bit fuzzy
[15:09] <KHendrik> why not use the template with backend and tabbed ui?
[15:09] <SKilly> (was better earlier?)
[15:09] <KHendrik> yeah thats true fuzzy even though its 720p
[15:10] <SKilly> thanks chaps - I'll give YT a try
[15:10] <dholbach> can you guys prefix question with QUESTION next time? just so I can pick it up more easily?
[15:11] <KHendrik> sure thing
[15:11] <dholbach> thanks!
[15:16] <mhall119> QUESTION: can mzanetti increase his video quality settings? His screensharing is unreadable to me
[15:20] <mhall119> dangers of live coding :)
[15:21] <dholbach> more questions? :)
[15:25] <KHendrik> m_nam not m_name
[15:26] <KHendrik> ok
[15:39] <dholbach> more questions for Michael?
[15:44] <mhall119> mzanetti: are you returning m_position from your position() method, or still the hard-coded QGeoCoordinate?
[15:44] <KHendrik> mhall119, he just fixed it its now dynamic
[15:45] <mhall119> yeah, video lag :)
[15:45] <upsidedown> you check to see if the bool is true so you do not have a mem leak on the signal
[15:46] <upsidedown> aka the notify
[15:48] <upsidedown> the function
[15:49] <dholbach> upsidedown, which function?
[15:49] <upsidedown> the bool one because when he emits the signal
[15:49] <dholbach> mzanetti, ^
[15:49] <dholbach> any other questions? :)
[15:50] <upsidedown> if (m_bool [15:51] <upsidedown> so when you run in qml onSomePropertyChanged{   }   <<  it will check
[15:51] <AlanO> Thank you. Nice demo
[15:51] <KHendrik> thanks a lot nice tut
[15:52] <Skilly> thanks - will we be able to watch video again later?
[15:52] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  can you share an example, like this one?
[15:52] <upsidedown> great tutorial all around thanks
[15:52] <mzanetti> hey o/
[15:53] <upsidedown> \o
[15:53] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  Awesome session.  Do you have an example for pulling json somewhere?
[15:53] <mzanetti> now I'm free to type
[15:53] <mzanetti> mrjazzcat: thanks. well, that's what this does, no?
[15:53] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  ok, cool.  It's just hard for us Qt newbies to keep up :)
[15:54] <mhall119> QUESTION: maybe the same as mrjazzcat, but can you publish your example code somewhere we can download it?
[15:54] <mzanetti> mrjazzcat: yeah, I guess so... It's a bit much if you've never seen C++ before
[15:54] <mzanetti> I tried to target people that have an understanding of QML already and have some very little C++ at least
[15:54] <mzanetti> mhall119: yep, will put it up
[15:54] <mrjazzcat> mrjazzcat:  The C++ I could do fine with.  It's the Qt classes I don't know yet, so an example would be awesome
[15:54] <mhall119> video must have a long lang
[15:54] <mhall119> lag
[15:55] <mzanetti> upsidedown: sorry, still not following... everything you say seems correct, but I still don't really see where it should leak something
[15:55] <upsidedown> cool yeah what I was saying is in your bool function you are setting a private bool property . If you do not check to see if it has changed then it will not know
[15:55] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  thanks again for the great demo
[15:56] <mzanetti> upsidedown: aaah. now I get it. you wrote that before I added the changed signal
[15:56] <upsidedown> like emit somePropertyChanged()    whta if it still thinks that it is false or true
[15:56] <upsidedown> cool
[15:57] <upsidedown> great tutorial have a good one
[15:57] <AlanO> mzanetti: Thanks for the demo.I'll pull the code down later and experiment.
[15:58] <mzanetti> mhall119: mrjazzcat: AlanO: here's the code now: lp:~mzanetti/+junk/wheretheissat
[15:58] <mhall119> thanks mzanetti
[15:59] <AlanO> Thank you
[15:59] <mrjazzcat> mzanetti:  sweet, thank you
[15:59] <mzanetti> yw
[16:01] <Skilly> test
[16:03] <mhall119> http://pad.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403-ubuntu-ui-toolkit-tips-and-tricks-for-beginners
[16:04] <AlanO> Yes, it looks good
[16:04] <balloons> mhall119, looks fine on the video too
[16:04] <mrjazzcat> mrjazzcat:  yup, good
[16:05] <aquarius> you are live
[16:06] <KHendrik> mhall119, pad is not accessible "Either you have not been granted access to this resource or your entitlement has timed out. Please try again."
[16:07] <balloons> KHendrik, I can add you to the etherpad team if for some reason you are not. What's you lp id? feel free to pm it to me if you wish instead
[16:08] <KHendrik> balloons, didn't know i had to be in the team kbehren is my id
[16:09] <mhall119> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad
[16:10] <balloons> KHendrik, you should be all set, skilly you too.. Simply reload the page
[16:11] <KHendrik> balloons, thank you works fine now :)
[16:11] <balloons> feel free to ping a question at any time :-) I'll interrupt mike :-)
[16:12] <aquarius> QUESTION: hey, I've never noticed that Outline pane. Do you actually use it?
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> ballons can you repeat the url please?
[16:13] <balloons> chocolateThunder, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad?
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> the other one :)
[16:13] <chocolateThunder> to the actual link
[16:14] <balloons> chocolateThunder, http://summit.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403/meeting/22145/ubuntu-ui-toolkit-tips-and-tricks-for-beginners/
[16:14] <chocolateThunder> Thanks!Q
[16:17] <balloons> http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/
[16:21] <aquarius> QUESTION: how do you clear a saved state while debugging?
[16:22] <aquarius> (because I can never work it out and have to adjust the app to "save" an empty value :))
[16:23] <aquarius> ha!
[16:23] <aquarius> I do not know either. :)
[16:24] <aquarius> Ya, if a Page has one child and it's a Flickable, the header works automatically. Mostly.
[16:24] <aquarius> The rules of this sort of thing are not very well documented, so it's always confusing :)
[16:25] <aquarius> note for example that you do not have clip:true on the listview which means that sometimes it will scroll *under* the header
[16:25] <aquarius> it's dead confusing :(
[16:25] <aquarius> omg my eyes horrible gradient ;)
[16:27] <t1mp> aquarius: the "rule" is that the first of the children of the Page which is a Flickable that can flick in vertical direction, then that's gonna be the automatic value of page.flickable
[16:28] <t1mp> aquarius: if it is documented bad, that's probably my fault. Suggestions for updates are welcome :)
[16:29] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  any hints about using Ubuntu design guidelines?
[16:29] <htamayo> great presentation, congrats
[16:30] <RafaelM> very helpful for the noobs. Thanks Michael
[16:30] <balloons> api website again: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/qml/sdk-14.04/
[16:30] <AlanO> Thanks Michael, great demo.
[16:30] <balloons> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps
[16:31] <mrjazzcat> mhall119:  yup
[16:31] <micah2> QUESTION: Is there any advice or tips on how to come up with good gradients for our apps?
[16:31] <mhall119> http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/building-blocks/page-stack
[16:31] <balloons> navigation: http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation
[16:33] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/communities/111350780270925540549
[16:33] <mrjazzcat> Nice, thank you!
[16:33] <mhall119> https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549
[16:33] <balloons> ask a designer :-)
[16:33] <balloons> and if nothing else peer review will help shape your design
[16:34] <micah2> cool, thanks
[16:35] <mrjazzcat> Thanks!
[16:35] <Mark_K> Informative presentation, thank you.
[16:35] <micah2> thanks, mhall119
[16:35] <mhall119> 1w 83
[16:57] <elopio> ping oSoMoN: can you top approve this one so it lands on next release? https://code.launchpad.net/~elopio/webbrowser-app/copyright/+merge/205075
[16:58] <oSoMoN> elopio, I can surely top-approve it, but it’s not as simple as that, a landing needs to be requested for this MR
[16:59] <mhall119> video is going live now
[16:59] <mhall119> let us know when you can see it
[16:59] <elopio> oSoMoN: aren't you doing releases weekly or something like that?
[16:59] <aquarius> I can see it
[17:00] <marcinello> mhall119: we can see you
[17:00] <oSoMoN> elopio, no, it’s an on-demand thing
[17:01] <elopio> oSoMoN: well, next time you have something to release, can you please add this one too? It would be a lot of effort to make a release just for this branch.
[17:02] <oSoMoN> elopio, sure
[17:03] <suhaib> !help
[17:03] <ubot2`> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[17:03] <mhall119> suhaib: do you need help?
[17:03] <suhaib> mhall119: ya, just wants to know the url for the live video
[17:03] <mhall119> suhaib: http://summit.ubuntu.com/appdevweek-1403/meeting/22148/html5-ubuntuui-components/ should have it embedded
[17:04] <mhall119> if you have a question for the presenter (Kyle) ask it here starting with "QUESTION:"
[17:04] <skilly> .
[17:05] <suhaib> mhall119: Thanks, How come the website sends me to the 11-13 summit ?
[17:05] <suhaib> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/
[17:05] <TooLmaN> Are these sessions being recorded for later viewing?  I missed the last one  :(
[17:05] <mhall119> suhaib: because that's happening next week
[17:05] <mhall119> TooLmaN: yes
[17:05] <aquarius> QUESTION: you say that grid units will be available in CSS. That is, I'll be able to say: h1 { height: 8gu; } ?? Really? That'll break the ability to have my html work anywhere else
[17:05] <aquarius> (perhaps you didn't mean that it'll work in css?)
[17:05] <TooLmaN> mhall119: ty
[17:06] <suhaib> mhall119: aha
[17:09] <aquarius> kyleN, mhall119, please, please don't patch the browser renderer to magically understand gu in CSS for Ubuntu only :(
[17:09] <mhall119> aquarius: I *think* they were planning on using a CSS pre-processor to convert gu to pixels
[17:09] <aquarius> I don't know how to say this more strongly. If I'm writing a dialect of HTML which doesn't work in any other browser at all, then it is *not HTML*
[17:10] <aquarius> It means I can't test in a desktop browser.
[17:10] <aquarius> If I'm doing that I might as well just use QML.
[17:10] <aquarius> there is one web for a reason. :)
[17:11] <mhall119> aquarius: like I said, I think they're going to use a pre-processor so you as a developer can write in terms of grid units, but the browser will ultimately only see pixel values
[17:12] <aquarius> mhall119, still means no testing in browser :(
[17:12] <mhall119> aquarius: sure you can, it just means you have to run the process first
[17:12] <aquarius> and Ubuntu's just never going to have as complete a set of tools as the whole rest of the world put together.
[17:13] <t1mp> aquarius: how would you propose to support GUs in html then?
[17:13] <aquarius> t1mp, I wouldn't.
[17:13] <aquarius> that's what you get for inventing your own unit. :)
[17:13] <mhall119> aquarius: you don't *have* to use grid units if you don't want to, they're just there to make your job easier
[17:13] <aquarius> I don't think you need grid units in HTML anyway.
[17:13] <aquarius> Note that the whole rest of the universe is doing responsive design and coping ;)
[17:13] <mhall119> does HTML/CSS provide a way to accomplish the same thing?
[17:14] <ogra_> em ... isnt it ?
[17:14] <aquarius> No. An em is the size of an "m" character.
[17:14] <t1mp> aquarius: and what about other ubuntu-specific stuff, such as launcher online accounts, contenthub, ...?
[17:14] <aquarius> HTML has vw and vh and vmin viewport units, which are useful for this.
[17:15] <aquarius> t1mp, those are APIs, which are fine -- no problem with calling APIs, because you can do those in JavaScript.
[17:15] <aquarius> I'd be happy if the "preprocessor" that was used was, for example, a SASS plugin which was released as JS
[17:15] <aquarius> rather than inventing some brand new tool
[17:15] <aquarius> there's a lot of prior art in this field, and I'm worried that it's not being looked at
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: but if you use anything from here http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/html5/sdk-14.04/UbuntuUI/ then it would not work in another browser?
[17:16] <mhall119> vw and vh are non-pixel values?
[17:16] <aquarius> talk to web developers
[17:16] <aquarius> t1mp, it should do. That's JS.
[17:16] <aquarius> mhall119, a vw is 1/100 of the screen width
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: so you would copy the JS libs and include with your app?
[17:16] <mhall119> aquarius: physical width? pixel width? what?
[17:16] <t1mp> aquarius: I know nothing about html app development, so I'm asking out of curiosity
[17:17] <aquarius> t1mp, yep, and that's exactly precisely what I did with wordbits.
[17:17] <aquarius> it's convenient that they're shipped on the device, certainly, so I don't have to ship them in my click package
[17:17] <t1mp> aquarius: ok. so in qml we have units.gu(5) for grid units. The same would work if we provided a JS function that does the same
[17:17] <aquarius> t1mp, except that CSS can't run JS functions, sadly.
[17:18] <t1mp> ohh
[17:18] <t1mp> right
[17:18] <aquarius> if I'm building an HTML app then at least part of my motivating reason for doing so (rather than non-portable QML+Ubuntu.Components) is that I want to be on Android and iOS as well
[17:18] <mhall119> for those watching the video, kyleN has mentioned pending changes to the header and toolbar, there will be a session on that Friday at 1400 UTC if you want a preview of what's coming
[17:18] <aquarius> t1mp, there are CSS preprocesors already, and some are in JS so they can be used on the fly, and that'd be great
[17:19] <mhall119> aquarius: ask alex-abreu for more specific implementation details about GU support in HTML5
[17:19] <aquarius> but I don't know if anyone on the team implementing this is doing enough web dev to know about this stuff :)
[17:19] <aquarius> mhall119, will do.
[17:19] <mhall119> again, I think they're going to use one of those CSS preprocessors that you seem to be happy using
[17:19] <aquarius> hooray!
[17:19] <aquarius> that way I can just include sass.js and use it like a normal web app I'd build.
[17:20] <mhall119> aquarius: daker surely does enough web dev to know "the right way" to do this
[17:20] <aquarius> and then preprocess in the build step for production
[17:20] <pabluk> QUESTION: Can we mix the 2 types of layouts on the same app?
[17:20] <aquarius> mhall119, cool -- I wasn't sure what was going on because I don't get to see much of this work
[17:20] <aquarius> anyway I'll shut up now :)
[17:20] <mhall119> pabluk: you mean PageStack and Tabs?
[17:21] <pabluk> mhall119: yes
[17:21] <t1mp> pabluk: it is possible but not recommended
[17:21] <aquarius> Don't mix them in the same app; the design guideliens specifically recommend against it. http://design.canonical.com/2013/03/app-patterns-explained-navigation/ has the details
[17:22] <pabluk> t1mp: ok
[17:23] <pabluk> aquarius: thanks for the link
[17:23] <t1mp> aquarius: thanks. I couldn't find the link :)
[17:24] <aquarius> t1mp, the reason I know is that I myself asked a question on G+ about it for the design team to answer, about a week ago ;) (https://plus.google.com/u/0/+StuartLangridge/posts/G8Yr3dmvVnJ)
[17:27] <t1mp> aquarius: weird, I cannot see answers from katie on that page, although you seem to reply to her comments
[17:29] <kenvandine> StateSaver is amazing!
[17:29] <aquarius> t1mp, I think she was speaking from her Canonical account, which has since been deleted.
[17:29] <aquarius> kenvandine, it is, isn't it? I love it. ;)
[17:30] <t1mp> aquarius: oh :( makes sense. but now some useful information is missing
[17:30] <t1mp> well.. I can only guess that it was useful
[17:30] <aquarius> I concur. Don't know what can be done about that :( The conclusion basically was "this is a use case that we just flat out don't cater for now, so we the design team need to think about that and work out what to do" :)
[17:32] <t1mp> aquarius: how is it done in desktop apps?
[17:32] <mhall119> btw, all of these components he's showing off are documented on http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/html5/sdk-14.04/UbuntuUI/
[17:33] <aquarius> t1mp, most platforms don't have specific design guidance saying "don't do this". (They may be wrong to do so; it might be a bad pattern. Hence me asking for a better one. :))
[17:46] <aquarius> QUESTION: can I put data-role="button" on anything? Specifically, a <button>? Or do I have to use a div? 'Cos that's not good for accessibility...
[17:46] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/html-5/tutorials/meanings-app-html5-tutorial/ is the tutorial he mentioned
[17:50] <aquarius> Ah, good. It should use a <button> ;)
[17:51] <mhall119> aquarius: file a bug :)
[17:51] <mhall119> lp:ubuntu-html5-theme
[17:51] <mhall119> to update the API docs
[17:52] <aquarius> already doing so :)
[17:54] <aquarius> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-html5-theme/+bug/1287826 filed
[17:54] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1287826 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Button docs should call out that an actual <button> should be used" [Undecided,New]
[17:54] <mhall119> http://developer.ubuntu.com/apps/html-5/
[17:54] <aquarius> heh.
[17:55] <aquarius> I don't think I have any more questions immediately based on the video :)
[17:55] <aquarius> Ah, there was one more
[17:56] <mrjazzcat> QUESTION:  will there be a roadmap for features and releases post-14.04?
[17:56] <aquarius> QUESTION: are UbuntuUI-decorated elements reacting to click events or to touch events? Touch events don't have the 300ms delay, so they feel more native
[17:58] <aquarius> (nice, the theme is using SASS. Coolio.)
[17:59] <pabluk> QUESTION: Can we use CSS media queries with the UbuntuUI to make more responsive layouts?
[17:59] <mrjazzcat> thanks kyleN
[17:59] <aquarius> one other QUESTION, because it bit me a while ago: why does Shape use a png image rather than, say, SVG? It didn't seem to look right when I used it :(
[18:00] <aquarius> session over. thank you kyleN! Interesting stuff.
[18:00] <kyleN> mrjazzcat, you are welcome
[18:00] <kyleN> aquarius, and all, thank you
[18:00] <mhall119> aquarius: I believe daker is working on changing UbuntuShape to use SVG
[18:00] <aquarius> mhall119, ah, good, OK :)
[18:00] <aquarius> I deliberately didn't use Shape in wordbits (and felt guilty about it) precisely because it looked weird :)
[18:01] <aquarius> I wish border-radius could do unbalanced borders, then it wouldn't need anything at all
[18:11] <t1mp> aquarius: I don't know if your question was answered in the video, but the components use mouseareas for events
[18:11] <t1mp> aquarius: but I think using touchareas would be a welcome update
[18:11] <aquarius> t1mp, not in HTML they don't ;)
[18:12] <t1mp> aquarius: oops, I forgot about html
[18:12] <aquarius> unless I have completely underestimated how much work you lot are doing
[18:12] <aquarius> heh :)
[18:40] <daker> aquarius: bug #1243396
[18:40] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1243396 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Ubuntu Shape does not scale" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243396
[18:41] <aquarius> daker, sweet,thank you :)
[18:41] <daker> aquarius: i am still waiting for the SVG shape
[18:41] <aquarius> daker, can you border-image an svg?
[18:41] <aquarius> I've never actually tried :)
[18:41] <daker> i don't think so :(
[18:42] <daker> i am using :after
[18:44] <daker> the design team is recommending me to use a simple border-radius
[18:44] <aquarius> then it's not the ubuntu shape, though
[18:44] <aquarius> I wish css could do properly unbalanced borders and it can't :(
[18:45] <aquarius> no arbitrary beziers for us
[18:45] <daker> yeah :(
[18:45] <daker> here is the actual result http://i.imgur.com/nl4beub.png
[18:46] <aquarius> hahaha!
[18:46] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/futovecu/1/edit
[18:46] <aquarius> svg border image
[18:46] <aquarius> works in chrome at least :)
[18:47] <aquarius> although border-image is a problem because you can't set its colour
[18:47] <aquarius> unless you use a dynamic svg or something equally horrible
[18:47]  * daker is assigning‎ bug #1243396 to aquarius :)
[18:47] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1243396 in Ubuntu HTML5 UI SDK "Ubuntu Shape does not scale" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1243396
[18:49] <aquarius> if the design team are suggesting using border-radius, I bet you could get pretty close to the Ubuntu shape just by using two radii for an ellipse
[18:49] <aquarius> it wouldn't be perfect
[18:49] <aquarius> but offloading all the hard work to the rendering engine is a really good idea :)
[18:49] <daker> http://thecodeplayer.com/walkthrough/css3-squircles
[18:54] <aquarius> daker, hrm
[18:54] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit
[18:54] <aquarius> the "ubuntu shape", from http://design.canonical.com/2013/10/indented-styles-and-the-ubuntu-shape/ is REALLY close to just being a shape with perfectly rounded corners ;)
[18:54] <aquarius> is there a better example of the Ubuntu shape?
[18:57] <daker> aquarius: example ?
[18:57] <daker> this is the one i am using http://design.canonical.com/wp-content/themes/design-blog-theme/assets/img/team-squircle.png
[18:59] <aquarius> daker, see the jsbin
[18:59] <aquarius> http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit
[19:00] <daker> i see but how about scaling ?
[19:01] <aquarius> border-radius can be a percentage...
[19:01] <aquarius> I think
[19:01]  * aquarius checks ;)
[19:03] <aquarius> daker, http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit updated to have both squircles, with one single border radius (rather than two for an ellipse)
[19:03] <aquarius> and percentage sizes.
[19:03] <aquarius> ta daaaa
[19:04] <aquarius> it's not totally perfect; the Ubuntu Shape bulges a tiny bit more on the curve
[19:04] <aquarius> but it's a really tiny bit :)
[19:05] <aquarius> actually, using ellipse radii works even better
[19:05] <daker> aquarius: can you comment on the bug report ?
[19:05] <aquarius> see http://jsbin.com/taliqapu/1/edit again :)
[19:06] <aquarius> OK, I shall add to the bug report
[19:11]  * aquarius adds comment to the bug report
[19:11] <aquarius> yay no png background image horror required :)
[19:21] <daker> \o/
[19:21] <daker> will ask Anthony to review it
[19:29] <m-b-o> hello, does anyone know how to get a decent load on a device while running autopilot tests at the same time?
[19:59] <candelibas> Hi everyone.I have installed Ubuntu SDK then I created HTML5 App.When I try to run projects it says me Starting ubuntu-html5-app-launcher --www=/home/can/projects/myfirstapp/www --inspector Failed to start program. Path or permissions wrong? ubuntu-html5-app-launcher exited with code -1
[20:00] <candelibas> I searched for the problem but I can't get the solution
[22:00] <cff> Can I use PyGTK App indicators in KDE? I want to port a GTK app indicator to KDE and it has an gtk.StatusIcon http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2reference/class-gtkstatusicon.html#signal-gtkstatusicon--activate which when its activated in the system tray it just closes, however if I click on it and don't release it works.  Activated = 1 click with release
[22:03] <cff> I have self.icon.connect("activate", self.show_menu) when self.icon is an gtk.StatusIcon() and show_menu calls self.menu.popup(None, None, None, 0, 0) and self.timer = gobject.timeout_add(100, self.check_mouse)  which calls if not self.menu.get_window().is_visible(): return
[22:03] <cff> s/when/where
[22:22] <cff> hmm the problem seems to be with self.menu.popup(None, None, None, 0, 0)