| === nudtrobert_ is now known as nudtrobert | ||
| === hyperair is now known as minefield | ||
| === minefield is now known as hyperair | ||
| === smb` is now known as smb | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| * slangasek waves | 16:02 | |
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| jodh | o/ | 16:03 |
|---|---|---|
| slangasek | #startmeeting | 16:05 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Mar 6 16:06:00 2014 UTC. The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 16:05 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 16:05 |
| slangasek | [TOPIC] Lightning round | 16:06 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round | ||
| slangasek | $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu) | 16:06 |
| slangasek | bdmurray slangasek barry doko stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber jodh | 16:06 |
| doko | slangasek, should you inject infinity into this shuffle? | 16:07 |
| slangasek | oh oops | 16:08 |
| slangasek | $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu infinity) | 16:08 |
| slangasek | jodh barry slangasek doko bdmurray infinity stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber | 16:08 |
| xnox | oh, meeting | 16:08 |
| slangasek | and... I still have stokachu in there, so s/stokachu/caribou/, not that he's here :) | 16:08 |
| slangasek | yes, quickly quickly | 16:08 |
| jodh | * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items: | 16:08 |
| jodh | - async tests have uncovered a race that needs to be resolved by | 16:08 |
| jodh | reworking the state machine. Plan is to have a mini-sprint with | 16:08 |
| jodh | xnox+cjwatson to work on this next week. | 16:08 |
| jodh | * upstart: | 16:08 |
| jodh | - fixed bug 1288243. | 16:08 |
| ubottu | bug 1288243 in upstart "reexec unit test consistently fails: single job producing output across a re-exec" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288243 | 16:08 |
| jodh | * other: | 16:08 |
| jodh | - Fixed pbuilder+sbuild dep8 tests running in an lxc container (ppc64el+armhf). | 16:08 |
| jodh | - Thanks to xnox for the Upstart MP backlog purge! | 16:08 |
| jodh | J | 16:09 |
| barry | LP: #1284469 / python issue #19021 - trying to get a python 3.4 rc2 package with the Popen.__del__ fix. currently have some autopkgtest failures so the cherry pick list is probably not complete. alternatively: convince 3.4 RM to cherry pick the relevant changes into 3.4rc3. | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1284469 in python3.4 (Ubuntu) "Exception on installing/reconfiguring python3" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284469 | 16:09 |
| barry | system-image: long q/a meeting about how to do automated tests. wiki test plan updated. s-i 2.2 ready for landing silo (along with a new u-d-m). fixes: LP: #1277589, LP: #1287287, LP: #1250817, LP: #1286542, LP: #1279532, LP: #1287919. | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1277589 in Ubuntu system image "Better protection against concurrent access" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1277589 | 16:09 |
| barry | this week: hopefully returning to autopilot py3 and general py3.4 work. | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1287287 in Ubuntu system image "Remove atomic rename workaround in client" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287287 | 16:09 |
| barry | done | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1250817 in system-image (Ubuntu) "Exceptions in the state machine (D-Bus) should result in UpdateAvailableStatus with an error_reason" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1250817 | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1286542 in Ubuntu system image "keyring DuplicateDestinationError when updating from custom s-i server" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1286542 | 16:09 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 1279532 in Ubuntu system image "Log dir path should be pass to udm to simplify debugging" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1279532 | 16:09 |
| barry | slangasek: you're up | 16:13 |
| slangasek | * buried in customer work all week | 16:13 |
| slangasek | * resumes coming in for the Java role; going to give some of these to doko for review, could use more volunteers to help pare these down | 16:13 |
| slangasek | (done) | 16:13 |
| slangasek | doko: | 16:13 |
| doko | - Linaro Connect | 16:13 |
| doko | - fixing ftbfs | 16:13 |
| doko | - toolchain updates required for AArch64 and powerpc64le | 16:13 |
| doko | - +1 maintenance work | 16:13 |
| doko | - will be offline for the next 12 days, so pestering people to keep up with things while I'm away | 16:13 |
| doko | (done) | 16:13 |
| bdmurray | bug triage of foundations bugs | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader with armhf and ppc64el test failure fix | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | research into software-properties test failures and gnupg debian bug 737128 | 16:14 |
| ubottu | Debian bug 737128 in gnupg "gpg exits with a fatal error about missing trustdb despite successfully having imported a key" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/737128 | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | reported gnupg bug regarding trustdb (issue 1622) | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | testing of bug 1280782 | 16:14 |
| ubottu | bug 1280782 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "Unable to upgrade from 13.10 to 14.04 - tk8.5-lib fails to upgrade to libtk8.5" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1280782 | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | uploaded an attempt to fix bug 1280782 regarding tk8.5-lib | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | tested bug 1280782 some more and uploaded tcltk-defaults to fix that upgrade issue | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | commited a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1160346 based on a patch from a community member | 16:14 |
| ubottu | bug 1160346 in Release Upgrader "do-release-upgrade from Ubuntu 12.04 on Pentium-M fails, breaks system without any warning (This kernel does not support a non-PAE CPU)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1160346 | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | uploaded a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1285545 based off jibel's patch | 16:14 |
| ubottu | bug 1285545 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Trusty) "P->T server upgrade failure: ubuntu-release-upgrader fails with OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285545 | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | fixed linux package hook bug when creating duplicate signatures | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | merge of colin king's kernel oops branch fixing some null pointers and memalloc issues | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | added a fix for kerneloops bug 1026300 with his changes | 16:14 |
| ubottu | bug 1026300 in kerneloops (Ubuntu) "kerneloops crashed with SIGABRT in __assert_fail_base()" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1026300 | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | submitted RT regarding installing trusty gdb on the retracers | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | backported trusty version of gdb to precise and tested it on the apport-retracers in canonistack (success) | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS | 16:14 |
| bdmurray | fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | modified errors to sort OOPS on user page by date they occurred not alphabetically | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | submitted RT to have errors updated | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | fixed errors tool to find a bucket for an instance | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | worked on modifications to apport to install specific package versions when retracing instead of using the latest | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | testing / improving whoopsie intergration-tests so we can move to prodstack | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | reported apport bug 1287460 regarding xdg-open and preferred browsers | 16:15 |
| ubottu | bug 1287460 in apport (Ubuntu) "system crash reports not opened with my default browser" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287460 | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | SRU team work and mentoring of arges | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | ⌁done | 16:15 |
| bdmurray | bluetooth magicpad testing (trying to capture kerneloops) | 16:15 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| slangasek | ah, we put infinity in the rotation, but he's probably asleep due to Macao :) | 16:19 |
| slangasek | cjohnston: | 16:19 |
| slangasek | er | 16:19 |
| slangasek | cjwatson: | 16:19 |
| cjwatson | Cherry-picked several easy fixes (mostly build/packaging, and bug 1285790) from my libclick work and landed them in click 0.4.16, by way of CI Train practice. | 16:20 |
| ubottu | bug 1285790 in click (Ubuntu) "click crashed with BrokenPipeError in run(): [Errno 32] Broken pipe" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1285790 | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Pushed libclick out for review. Went through my own proofreading pass in parallel; found and fixed several bugs. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Started work on converting some known click clients (upstart-app-launch, unity-scope-click, clickmanager-plugin) to libclick. Some of this will need library equivalents of "click info" and "click list", so started on those too. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Worked on a branch to expose supported frameworks in libclick. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Landing libclick at the moment. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-hackers/click/trunk/files/head:/click/tests/ (esp. gimock.py and some test file such as test_hooks.py) if you're interested in the crazy scheme I was talking about last week. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Fixed up python-tblib build problems (planning to use this for click later). | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Merged gnutls28 security fixes. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Attempted to get ghc/arm64 building, prompted by a thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss; predictably failed. | 16:20 |
| cjwatson | Rooted my phone and set it up to dual-boot Ubuntu, so that I have a test system that doesn't make me want to throw things. | 16:21 |
| cjwatson | .. | 16:21 |
| xnox | * python3: | 16:22 |
| xnox | - unity8, ubuntu-ui-toolkit, ofono, a few more clicks all landed. | 16:22 |
| xnox | - next up: land phablet-tools py2&3 support | 16:22 |
| xnox | - next up: continue testing/landing remaining clicks | 16:22 |
| xnox | * touch-x86: | 16:22 |
| xnox | - worked on fixing up x86 cross toolchain, it still does not build | 16:22 |
| xnox | with ssp. | 16:22 |
| xnox | * upstart/touch printing: | 16:22 |
| xnox | - fixed cups socket activation with upstart, it mostly was s/-F/-f/ | 16:22 |
| xnox | in the cups upstart job + correct typos. (both -F/-f mean | 16:22 |
| xnox | foreground, both change fg variable 0 => 1/-1, most things test for | 16:22 |
| xnox | !fg, apart from one small portion which closes all passed FDs when | 16:22 |
| ubottu | xnox: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 16:22 |
| xnox | running with -F instead of -f) | 16:22 |
| xnox | - reviewed a few upstart merge proposals. We should be good for a | 16:22 |
| xnox | bugfix heavy upstart release. | 16:22 |
| xnox | * aa/+1: | 16:22 |
| xnox | - disentangled libav8 NBS by fixing a few packages and uploading | 16:22 |
| xnox | patches to port mplayer to libav9 from gentoo, thus there is little | 16:22 |
| xnox | removal damage - two small leave packages. (mplayer on the other | 16:22 |
| xnox | hand has a lot of reverse dependencies). | 16:22 |
| xnox | .. | 16:22 |
| doko | x86 cross toolchain? | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | x86 bionic I guess? | 16:23 |
| xnox | yes. | 16:23 |
| doko | ahh, ok | 16:23 |
| doko | based on which 4.x? | 16:23 |
| cjwatson | cross for small values of cross | 16:23 |
| xnox | doko: 4.7, but it compiles bionic libc, somehow with missing symbols required for a working ssp. thus nothing links. | 16:24 |
| stgraber | LXC: | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Fixed quite a few lxc-ls bugs (nested unpriv containers, stopped containers, dealing with invalid config, ...) | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Fixed a small bug in the python3-lxc binding (missing exported function). | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Fixed some more corner cases of lxc-download | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Code reviews, testing and LXC on Android debugging | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Preparing for LXC 1.0.1, scheduled for later today | 16:24 |
| stgraber | CGManager support for logind: | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Got a patch covering all code paths we care about, now I just need to make this actually work... | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Landing for this will be blocked by the cgmanager MIR and by its own FFe | 16:24 |
| stgraber | Networking: | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Re-applied our ifenslave-2.6 delta to the new ifenslave source | 16:24 |
| stgraber | - Started going through some of the bug reports | 16:25 |
| stgraber | System-image: | 16:25 |
| stgraber | - Reviewed and merge/rejected all pending MPs for system-image/server | 16:25 |
| stgraber | - Implemented code to rename channels and to create channel redirects (to transition users after a rename) | 16:25 |
| stgraber | - Tested the planned rename of all existing channels to ubuntu-touch/<channel name> | 16:25 |
| stgraber | Other: | 16:25 |
| stgraber | - Did a click landing. | 16:25 |
| stgraber | (DONE) | 16:25 |
| slangasek | ok, any questions over status? | 16:26 |
| slangasek | [TOPIC] AOB | 16:28 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB | ||
| slangasek | anything else? | 16:28 |
| bdmurray | could somebody look at bug 1288171? | 16:28 |
| ubottu | bug 1288171 in python-apt (Ubuntu Trusty) "0.9.3 regression: Setting APT::Architecture now downloads wrong indexes" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1288171 | 16:28 |
| barry | i will take a look | 16:29 |
| xnox | cjwatson: re:click landings what about lp:~xnox/click/chroot-sessions? | 16:29 |
| cjwatson | queued :) | 16:29 |
| barry | (it's already on my radar, i.e. browser tab) | 16:29 |
| cjwatson | I haven't forgotten, just been head-down on libclick | 16:29 |
| xnox | cjwatson: ack. | 16:29 |
| cjwatson | nothing else from here | 16:31 |
| slangasek | #endmeeting | 16:32 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Mar 6 16:32:39 2014 UTC. | 16:32 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-16.06.moin.txt | 16:32 |
| slangasek | thanks, guys! | 16:32 |
| barry | thanks! | 16:32 |
| jodh | thanks! | 16:32 |
| stgraber | thanks! | 16:34 |
| czajkowski | aloha | 17:00 |
| dholbach | hello | 17:00 |
| YokoZar | morning | 17:00 |
| czajkowski | anyone here from the technical board | 17:01 |
| czajkowski | #startmeeting | 17:02 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Mar 6 17:02:29 2014 UTC. The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 17:02 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 17:02 |
| dholbach | kees, mdeslaur, slangasek, stgraber: around? | 17:02 |
| czajkowski | #topic catch up with the Tech Board. | 17:02 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: catch up with the Tech Board. | ||
| slangasek | dholbach: on the phone, but meaning to be around | 17:02 |
| mdeslaur | sure, I'm here | 17:02 |
| czajkowski | slangasek: mdeslaur howdy folks | 17:03 |
| slangasek | heya | 17:03 |
| mdeslaur | hi | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | So how are things in the TB going ? | 17:03 |
| czajkowski | care to give us an update ? | 17:03 |
| * pitti waves hello | 17:03 | |
| slangasek | seems pretty low-key, really | 17:04 |
| slangasek | not much demand for our services :-) | 17:04 |
| pitti | I joined a few mins late, was there any question to the TB already? | 17:05 |
| dholbach | for those of you who haven't been around in the last meeting - the CC catches up with governance and community teams as part of our meeting to see how things are going and to have a look at "operations" from a bit of a distance :) | 17:05 |
| pitti | ah | 17:05 |
| dholbach | pitti, just generally asking how things have been going :) | 17:05 |
| pitti | well, we actually skipped the last few meetings due to not having any agenda | 17:05 |
| pitti | on the meetings we did have, things are usually going well, the biggest recent hiccup was the late re-election of the TB itself | 17:05 |
| pitti | but the day-to-day business is usually MREs and the like | 17:06 |
| dholbach | so the new TB members have settled in well in their low-key new activity? :) | 17:06 |
| czajkowski | pitti: yes we are sorry about that | 17:06 |
| pitti | it's been a while since we have had a long and difficult technical discussion | 17:06 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 17:06 |
| pitti | czajkowski: no worries, nobody's fault in particular | 17:06 |
| czajkowski | and hopefully we won't let it go that late again, the issues there was so many boards expiring at the same time, including the CC. | 17:06 |
| czajkowski | is it worth having a meeting even when there is a blank agenda so people can catch up | 17:06 |
| YokoZar | pitti: This is perhaps due to the LTS nature of Trusty making all reasonable decisions of this nature done well in advance, yes? | 17:07 |
| czajkowski | does the community know they can reach out to the TB ? | 17:07 |
| pitti | we used to have a lot more topics, but that was in the days when ubuntu was driven a lot more by UDSes and community | 17:07 |
| dholbach | so when there's been long discussions and difficult decisions, how did you feel it generally went? | 17:07 |
| pitti | and also because there is not that much major change going on in the non-phone-y bits | 17:07 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yeah, that too | 17:07 |
| pitti | dholbach: as they should go, really; I remember discussions like "should we install binary drivers by default", the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate, etc. | 17:08 |
| czajkowski | pitti: so how do you feel it is driven now considering we have online uds | 17:08 |
| pitti | we had a thorough discussion, voting, annoucned it to the devel crowd, and there generally hasn't been any negative feedback about those | 17:08 |
| czajkowski | which is great to see | 17:08 |
| dholbach | pitti, sure - I was just wondering if you were happy with that kind of discussions (so no major delays, everyone weighing in, decision making process is sufficiently refined, etc.) | 17:09 |
| pitti | dholbach: oh yes; we could have had some speedier discussions for sure, but that's just the nature of timezones and (often) email-based communication, so not much to complain from my side | 17:09 |
| czajkowski | nods | 17:10 |
| dholbach | cool | 17:10 |
| YokoZar | We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before? | 17:10 |
| dholbach | I guess that's similar for the CC as well :) | 17:10 |
| pitti | czajkowski: as I said, the desktop/server bits don't have a lot of structural change these days, so nothing that bubbles up to the TB | 17:10 |
| YokoZar | (we had a similar argument ~ the CC itself) | 17:10 |
| pitti | what I am missing a bit is to discuss technical architecture of the phone | 17:10 |
| czajkowski | pitti: ah interesting | 17:11 |
| czajkowski | where does that currently take place? | 17:11 |
| dholbach | pitti, do you have an example of what you feel would have warranted a discussion with the TB? | 17:11 |
| pitti | there's the ubuntu-phone@ ML and such | 17:11 |
| dholbach | (just to get an idea) | 17:11 |
| pitti | and most of the design decisions etc. are just fine | 17:11 |
| pitti | the main thing that comes to my mind is that in retrospect we should have discussed how to build the image-based upgrades without breaking /etc/ so hard | 17:12 |
| czajkowski | pitti: so you're saying you agree with them, but you'd like to see the TB perhaps involved more in the discussion or be involved more ? | 17:12 |
| pleia2 | pitti: any thoughts from the tb regarding the init system stuff? (mark kind of announced it after debian made their decision "pending community discussion") | 17:12 |
| pleia2 | seems like something the tb should have weighed in on first | 17:12 |
| pitti | pleia2: ah, I deliberately didn't bring that up -- but yes, that'll most certainly be a bigger discussion that comes in the next cycle :) | 17:12 |
| * pleia2 troublemaker :) | 17:13 | |
| pitti | pleia2: well, we will | 17:13 |
| * pleia2 nods | 17:13 | |
| dholbach | to be fair, Mark said "I will ask the Ubuntu tech board (many of whom do not work for Canonical) to review the position" :) | 17:14 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 17:14 |
| pitti | czajkowski: yes, but this is the main issue I have really; and it's always easy to say in hindsight "we should have discussed that more", but not that easy to plan in advance | 17:14 |
| dholbach | but yeah :) | 17:14 |
| pitti | czajkowski: so I don't want to stress that too much really; but I think we need a version 2 of that, and thus maybe the TB is a good forum to discuss that new design | 17:15 |
| pitti | but yeah, in general I think it's working ok | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | pitti: I agree | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | so perhaps this is something we can raise and see if we can drive some discussion over to yo folks to get your experience in | 17:15 |
| dholbach | how much of the discussion happens on the mailing list and how much in meetings? do non-TB members weigh in as well? | 17:15 |
| czajkowski | and ask dholbach pointed out sabdfl did say he would ask the TB | 17:16 |
| pitti | pleia2: I'm sure cjwatson and slangasek have a super-huge desire to discuss upstart vs. systemd soon :-) (it's not like they wasted many months of their lifetime thinking about it already..) | 17:16 |
| mdeslaur | hehe | 17:16 |
| pleia2 | pitti: yeah, I followed the debian discussions | 17:16 |
| pitti | dholbach: historically, most in meetings due to the synchronous nature | 17:16 |
| pitti | dholbach: these days, small things like MRE requests or the LTS lifetimes are happening mostly over email as that's more practical | 17:17 |
| pitti | dholbach: and yes, we have non-TB members posting to the list | 17:17 |
| dholbach | yeah, that makes perfect sense | 17:17 |
| cjwatson | pitti: it's on the vUDS schedule I believe | 17:17 |
| pitti | cjwatson: ah, "fun" :) | 17:17 |
| pleia2 | cjwatson: ah, great | 17:17 |
| sabdfl | hi all, sorry to be late | 17:18 |
| dholbach | so it sounds like the TB processes are well-oiled machinery... is there anything which has been on your collective minds to be changed at some stage? or things which have repeatedly been put on the backburner? | 17:19 |
| * pitti scratches head, nothing comes to my mind from the last 2 years really | 17:19 | |
| dholbach | even better :) | 17:19 |
| YokoZar | I'll reraise my question from earlier, as I believe it got skipped: We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before? | 17:19 |
| pitti | I think the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate came up several times | 17:19 |
| pleia2 | oh, so the CC kept having meetings that had no agenda for a while, which is when we started doing these check-ins, I wonder if something similar might be useful for TB and dev teams? | 17:20 |
| slangasek | YokoZar: I have no strong opinion on this... more important is to not leave a gap, as we did last fall | 17:20 |
| pitti | YokoZar: ah, I didn't think that was aimed at TB; as the elections were supposed to happen much much earlier, it would have even been during saucy I believe | 17:20 |
| YokoZar | Right around saucy release | 17:21 |
| YokoZar | was original schedule I think | 17:21 |
| pleia2 | yeah | 17:21 |
| pitti | YokoZar: I actually think it's quite a good time, as traditionally during the LTS cycles there's not that much to decide | 17:21 |
| YokoZar | pitti: hypothetically, though, if we replace the entire board it might make a bunch of new decisions | 17:22 |
| czajkowski | pitti: thanks for the udpate this has been great to her and nice to see a healthy TB | 17:22 |
| czajkowski | pleia2: indeed and I wondered if doing somehting similar for the TB would be useful for them to get to have more discussion here | 17:22 |
| czajkowski | YokoZar: same could be said for any board at any given time tbh | 17:23 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yes, but that could happen at any point? | 17:23 |
| YokoZar | czajkowski: pitti: for sure, but would it be "less bad" after an LTS rather than before? | 17:23 |
| pitti | so yes, if we elect a board that makes silly decisions, something went wrong before that | 17:23 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yes, perhaps | 17:23 |
| dholbach | did anyone see pleia2's question? I personally think it might be worth trying | 17:23 |
| pitti | YokoZar: but then a new board would actually be thrown into a time when there's potentially many discussions to make, which might be more overwhelming for new members? | 17:24 |
| czajkowski | pitti: mdeslaur slangasek how about whe you've a blank agenda, still having a meeting | 17:24 |
| czajkowski | so people can see a discussion and join | 17:24 |
| czajkowski | we've started doing this and it's been very useful | 17:24 |
| mdeslaur | that's what we've done so far | 17:24 |
| YokoZar | Not sure how frequent it is for "lay folk" to pop into TB meetings and raise an issue, but it does happen with CC meetings from time to time | 17:25 |
| czajkowski | or you could arrange a catch up wth groups the tb has an interst in | 17:25 |
| pitti | we usually do | 17:25 |
| pitti | wait a bit | 17:25 |
| pitti | then say "nothing to discuss" and end it again | 17:25 |
| pitti | YokoZar: it does happen quite often; in fact that's the norm, as these days the TB rarely raises issues by themselves | 17:25 |
| pitti | i. e. someone adds an agenda item and then usually appears in the meeting | 17:25 |
| dholbach | great - as others have said... I'm quite happy with how the TB is working - I'm done with questions :) | 17:26 |
| dholbach | keep up the good work everyone! :) | 17:26 |
| YokoZar | pitti: so perhaps around a time when it's too late to reasonably change things in the LTS cycle, but before hecticness of post-release. Like around the next UDS we're having. | 17:26 |
| pleia2 | thanks pitti :) | 17:26 |
| YokoZar | What if elections were considerably before terms starting? | 17:26 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yeah, sounds good | 17:26 |
| YokoZar | Like we vote around now, and incoming members start their term after LTS release | 17:27 |
| pitti | YokoZar: I don't like that very much, I must say; I think it's good for the old board to have a last meeting after the election to hand over, but not much more | 17:27 |
| pitti | but I don't have a strong opinion on that | 17:27 |
| YokoZar | Relatedly, I am encouraged by the lack of strong opinions regarding our election rules, it means our politics aren't particularly "politics" ;) | 17:28 |
| czajkowski | any other questions folks before we wrap up | 17:28 |
| * sabdfl is still reading the scrollback | 17:28 | |
| pitti | YokoZar: or that things are mostly going well and all that's left to do is finetuning :) | 17:28 |
| czajkowski | YokoZar: you just like running polls! admit it :P | 17:28 |
| YokoZar | This is not an "admission" any more than one confesses to liking the sunrise | 17:30 |
| pleia2 | hehe | 17:30 |
| sabdfl | regarding init | 17:32 |
| sabdfl | if the TB has a strong opinion different to the broad roadmap of "adopting systemd on an appropriate schedule" then i'm very open to hearing it | 17:32 |
| pitti | sabdfl: probably the wrong place here, but FWIW, I agree to you | 17:33 |
| pitti | sabdfl: seeing how much recent action there is in Debian towards adding native systemd packagse to stuff, I think in a year or so we'll have this robust enough | 17:33 |
| pitti | sabdfl: with RHEL7 moving to systemd the server world ought to catch up quickly | 17:34 |
| sabdfl | my commentary was not to subvert the TB, but to express that there is no ideological attachment to code that 'belongs' to Canonical | 17:34 |
| pitti | the desktop world pretty much worked two years ago already, but our concern was the server back then | 17:34 |
| sabdfl | we'll move where works best, and i trust the TB to map that out | 17:34 |
| pitti | so for me it's not a question of "if", but "when/how" | 17:34 |
| YokoZar | So, not understanding much of ubuntu-phone, how specific are the phone-related technical decisions that we can expect in the future? | 17:35 |
| pitti | as long-term it seems much better to follow Debian than eternally diverging | 17:35 |
| pitti | YokoZar: they are actually meant to become less and less phone specific over time | 17:35 |
| pitti | YokoZar: "convergence" | 17:35 |
| slangasek | pitti: I don't believe that RHEL7 is doing anything that we'll significantly be able to leverage; too much of this is integration work which doesn't translate | 17:35 |
| slangasek | but I'm not sure the CC meeting is the place to have this discussion :) | 17:36 |
| pitti | YokoZar: i. e. the phone is by and large a playground (excuse the wording, sabdfl) for trying out new technology like upgrades or display server | 17:36 |
| pitti | without the need for backwards compat | 17:36 |
| YokoZar | Yes, I imagined that was the eventual goal of any reasonable implementation. | 17:36 |
| YokoZar | I would hope phone would soon be "absorbed" into the rest of Ubuntu governance smoothly | 17:36 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yes, AFAIUI that's the plan | 17:36 |
| sabdfl | this was a particularly difficult thing to watch unfold, since in a sense we were never consulted on an issue with major consequences for us, and we're a member of the family | 17:36 |
| sabdfl | but then, some would argue we had great representation at the table, only wearing different hats | 17:36 |
| sabdfl | nothing more from me, thanks TB for checking in | 17:36 |
| pitti | the phone has laid a lot of new approaches to both technology (like Mir) and methods (like CI) | 17:37 |
| YokoZar | And, say, phone community == ubuntu community and phone tech decisions == ubuntu tech decisions with the same relevant governance | 17:37 |
| pitti | and they are certainly meant to be used on desktop in the future as well | 17:37 |
| pitti | in practice they are still quite separated these days, but I think that's mostly due to the LTS | 17:38 |
| pitti | e. g. we can't/shouldn't land things like Mir/Unity 8 now | 17:38 |
| pitti | and likewise can't turn our upgrade mechanics upside down now | 17:38 |
| czajkowski | pitti: I like those honest decisisons where we admit things aren't ready even when we wish they were | 17:39 |
| YokoZar | Do you think the archive itself might continue some of this delta? I vaguely worry about a future where we have, say, the arm arch for desktop packages have a lot of phone-specific deltas with a separate decision tree from the rest of the distro | 17:39 |
| czajkowski | any other comments folks before we wrap it up | 17:40 |
| mdeslaur | there is no archive delta for the phone at the moment | 17:40 |
| dholbach | YokoZar, that sounds like a summary for the work leading up to the next LTS - bringing unity8 to the desktop and making the convergence happen :) | 17:40 |
| mdeslaur | it's just using a different version of unity | 17:40 |
| pitti | YokoZar: yes, it's less along the lines of architecture and more of package selection | 17:41 |
| pitti | unity8-desktop-session-{mir,x11} in trusty :) | 17:41 |
| pitti | I expect that to become the default soon | 17:41 |
| pitti | i. e. convergence to make a leap in 14.10 | 17:41 |
| YokoZar | mdeslaur: Right, and perhaps if we do convergence especially "wrong" in the future we might have different versions of a lot of things on phone vs desktop | 17:41 |
| pitti | sabdfl: btw, any chance we can get the u name before the release? it's needed in a couple of places, and last time we had to do a number of SRUs due to that | 17:42 |
| YokoZar | ugh | 17:42 |
| YokoZar | I'll follow up with him (he left) | 17:42 |
| YokoZar | Though | 17:42 |
| YokoZar | I have hounded him with that question before | 17:42 |
| pitti | ah | 17:42 |
| YokoZar | I suspect hearing it from the TB as well might help | 17:42 |
| czajkowski | ok thanks folks | 17:43 |
| dholbach | thanks a lot everyone! | 17:43 |
| mdeslaur | thanks! | 17:43 |
| pitti | thanks everyone! | 17:43 |
| YokoZar | Mark WILL delay the full name as long as possible for marketing/other purposes though | 17:43 |
| YokoZar | Thank you folks | 17:43 |
| dholbach | Do we have any other business? | 17:44 |
| czajkowski | #action YokoZar Mail Mark re U name for the TB to use for opening up next release | 17:44 |
| meetingology | ACTION: YokoZar Mail Mark re U name for the TB to use for opening up next release | 17:44 |
| czajkowski | #endmeeting | 17:44 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Mar 6 17:44:44 2014 UTC. | 17:44 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-17.02.moin.txt | 17:44 |
| dholbach | thanks czajkowski | 17:45 |
| slangasek | thanks :) | 17:46 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| roadmr | juuust waiting for the precise package to actually be published | 21:58 |
| spineau1 | no meeting today? :-( | 22:04 |
| === spineau1 is now known as spineau | ||
| spineau | hggdh: hello, no meeting today? | 22:06 |
| spineau | PabloRubianes: hello, no membership meeting today? | 22:09 |
| PabloRubianes | spineau, I don't see other members from the board | 22:09 |
| PabloRubianes | :S | 22:09 |
| PabloRubianes | checking | 22:09 |
| cjohnston | !rmb | 22:11 |
| ubottu | cjohnston, cyphermox, Destine, ejat, hggdh, IdleOne, iulian, micahg, Pendulum, PabloRubienes, freeflying, jared, s-fox, amachu, and chilicuil. Meeting time. | 22:11 |
| PabloRubianes | cjohnston, there's no quorum :S | 22:14 |
| cjohnston | nope | 22:15 |
| roadmr | :( | 22:15 |
| * spineau will go to bed a bit sad | 22:15 | |
| * toddy gives spineau a cookie | 22:17 | |
| hggdh | o/ | 22:18 |
| hggdh | sorry, on a meeting up to now | 22:18 |
| pleia2 | I can pitch in if you need a 4th | 22:20 |
| IdleOne | I'm also here | 22:20 |
| IdleOne | that makes 5 | 22:20 |
| pleia2 | oh good, no need for me :) | 22:20 |
| spineau | and I'm still here :) | 22:20 |
| hggdh | :-) | 22:20 |
| IdleOne | someone sit on the chair and get this started | 22:20 |
| roadmr | \o/ | 22:20 |
| hggdh | ok | 22:21 |
| spineau | hey hggdh | 22:21 |
| hggdh | #startmeeting Ubuntu membership Board | 22:21 |
| meetingology | Meeting started Thu Mar 6 22:21:24 2014 UTC. The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. | 22:21 |
| meetingology | Available commands: action commands idea info link nick | 22:21 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu membership Board Meeting | Current topic: | ||
| hggdh | spineau: long time :-) | 22:21 |
| spineau | hggdh: indeed, 2010? | 22:21 |
| hggdh | OK. We are now on the meeting. We will go by the order in the wiki. | 22:22 |
| hggdh | the first one is ... | 22:22 |
| hggdh | rohsigma. Is he online? | 22:23 |
| hggdh | actually, rhosigma | 22:23 |
| hggdh | no... | 22:23 |
| hggdh | #topic -- spineau for Ubuntu Member | 22:24 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu membership Board Meeting | Current topic: -- spineau for Ubuntu Member | ||
| hggdh | spineau: please go ahead and introduce yourself | 22:24 |
| spineau | ok | 22:24 |
| spineau | Hello, I'm Sylvain Pineau (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvainPineau, LP: https://launchpad.net/~sylvain-pineau) | 22:24 |
| spineau | I live in France and I'm working for the Hardware Certification Team at Canonical | 22:24 |
| spineau | My main focus is QA automation for Ubuntu, I'm one of the core developper of Checkbox, the system testing application that we have on the CD since 2008. | 22:24 |
| spineau | I led a vUDS session last November to share the Checkbox roadmap for Trusty. | 22:24 |
| spineau | I'm also an upstream maintainer of several Checkbox dependencies in Debian | 22:24 |
| spineau | I contribute to kernel SRU testing and made various contributions to other test frameworks used by the community. | 22:25 |
| hggdh | I see you have some testimonials :-) | 22:26 |
| spineau | hggdh: indeed, and roadmr accepted to be online with uq | 22:26 |
| spineau | us | 22:26 |
| * roadmr waves - here to support spineau | 22:26 | |
| hggdh | roadmr: hi, I see you :-) | 22:27 |
| hggdh | I have no questions for you -- I know your work... | 22:27 |
| spineau | I didn't mention UEC ;-) | 22:27 |
| IdleOne | Go ahead and mention it a little | 22:28 |
| hggdh | #voters IdleOne hggdh cjohnston PabloRubianes | 22:28 |
| meetingology | Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cjohnston hggdh | 22:28 |
| spineau | UEC was Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud, I wrote some tests for it | 22:29 |
| hggdh | yeah. UEC was fun regarding tests... | 22:29 |
| spineau | it was using eucalyptus before we decided to use openstack | 22:29 |
| cjohnston | spineau: do you do anything with a LoCo team or anything else? All I see on your wiki appears to be related to what you do for your job | 22:30 |
| spineau | cjohnston: I'm not involved with a French loco team, I'm too far from Paris TBH | 22:30 |
| spineau | cjohnston: I attended to some Perl Mongers meetings but that's unrelated to ubuntu | 22:31 |
| spineau | Usually my main way to contribute is via triaging or via IRC | 22:33 |
| IdleOne | How do you contribute via IRC specifically? | 22:33 |
| spineau | IdleOne: answering/asking questions | 22:34 |
| spineau | IdleOne: we created #checkbox to help people who wants to start using the checkbox toolset | 22:35 |
| spineau | on freenode | 22:35 |
| hggdh | spineau: anything more to add on community involvement? | 22:36 |
| hggdh | otherwise, time to vote | 22:37 |
| hggdh | #vote on spineau for Ubuntu member | 22:37 |
| meetingology | Please vote on: on spineau for Ubuntu member | 22:37 |
| meetingology | Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname) | 22:37 |
| spineau | hggdh: I provided QA support to other test frameworks over the past years | 22:37 |
| IdleOne | +0 | 22:38 |
| meetingology | +0 received from IdleOne | 22:38 |
| spineau | hggdh: outside of myu role at canonical | 22:38 |
| PabloRubianes | +0 | 22:38 |
| meetingology | +0 received from PabloRubianes | 22:38 |
| cjohnston | +0 I'd like to see my community involvement | 22:38 |
| meetingology | +0 I'd like to see my community involvement received from cjohnston | 22:38 |
| IdleOne | s/my/more/ | 22:38 |
| hggdh | +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement | 22:38 |
| meetingology | +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement received from hggdh | 22:38 |
| hggdh | #endvote | 22:39 |
| meetingology | Voting ended on: on spineau for Ubuntu member | 22:39 |
| meetingology | Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3 | 22:39 |
| meetingology | Motion carried | 22:39 |
| cjohnston | IdleOne: ya.. that too | 22:39 |
| hggdh | spineau: unfortunately, I think the lack of visible community involvement was it. | 22:39 |
| hggdh | spineau: may I suggest you to beef up the wiki with more community work, and then reapply? | 22:40 |
| spineau | hggdh: I will, thank you | 22:40 |
| IdleOne | spineau: thank you. I hope to see you back in a few months | 22:41 |
| hggdh | spineau: please do no give up. I would be proud to have you as a member. | 22:41 |
| hggdh | so. Keeping on | 22:41 |
| spineau | ok, again thank you for your time | 22:42 |
| hggdh | since rhosigma is not online, I think this is it for this meeting. | 22:42 |
| hggdh | #endmeeting | 22:42 |
| === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ||
| meetingology | Meeting ended Thu Mar 6 22:42:23 2014 UTC. | 22:42 |
| meetingology | Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-22.21.moin.txt | 22:42 |
| cjohnston | Thanks spineau and hggdh | 22:42 |
| IdleOne | pleia2: you still there? | 22:43 |
| pleia2 | mhmm | 22:44 |
| IdleOne | did you receive that invite to the rmb channel? | 22:45 |
| pleia2 | yes, but it got lost in my status window that I never look at :) | 22:45 |
| IdleOne | lol, look at it please. we need some clarification | 22:45 |
| IdleOne | AlanBell: Does meetingology have a #command that allows the chair to set a required positive total for a motion to be considered as carried? | 23:08 |
| === emma_ is now known as emma | ||
| IdleOne | oh it does | 23:13 |
| IdleOne | #votesrequired | 23:13 |
| pleia2 | ah, nice :) | 23:13 |
| * pleia2 learned something new | 23:13 | |
| IdleOne | ok so CC we need some help with that email I sent | 23:14 |
| IdleOne | :) | 23:14 |
| IdleOne | hmm, that doesn't do exactly what I thought it did | 23:15 |
| IdleOne | that sets the number of votes needed for a vote to be consider "voted on" | 23:15 |
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