[16:02]  * slangasek waves
[16:03] <jodh> o/
[16:05] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 16:06:00 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[16:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[16:06] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:06] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu)
[16:06] <slangasek> bdmurray slangasek barry doko stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber jodh
[16:07] <doko> slangasek, should you inject infinity into this shuffle?
[16:08] <slangasek> oh oops
[16:08] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson xnox stokachu infinity)
[16:08] <slangasek> jodh barry slangasek doko bdmurray infinity stokachu cjwatson xnox stgraber
[16:08] <xnox> oh, meeting
[16:08] <slangasek> and... I still have stokachu in there, so s/stokachu/caribou/, not that he's here :)
[16:08] <slangasek> yes, quickly quickly
[16:08] <jodh> * foundations-1305-upstart-work-items:
[16:08] <jodh>   - async tests have uncovered a race that needs to be resolved by
[16:08] <jodh>     reworking the state machine. Plan is to have a mini-sprint with
[16:08] <jodh>     xnox+cjwatson to work on this next week.
[16:08] <jodh> * upstart:
[16:08] <jodh>   - fixed bug 1288243.
[16:08] <jodh> * other:
[16:08] <jodh>   - Fixed pbuilder+sbuild dep8 tests running in an lxc container (ppc64el+armhf).
[16:08] <jodh>   - Thanks to xnox for the Upstart MP backlog purge!
[16:09] <jodh> J
[16:09] <barry> LP: #1284469 / python issue #19021 - trying to get a python 3.4 rc2 package with the Popen.__del__ fix.  currently have some autopkgtest failures so the cherry pick list is probably not complete.  alternatively: convince 3.4 RM to cherry pick the relevant changes into 3.4rc3.
[16:09] <barry> system-image: long q/a meeting about how to do automated tests.  wiki test plan updated.  s-i 2.2 ready for landing silo (along with a new u-d-m).  fixes: LP: #1277589, LP: #1287287, LP: #1250817, LP: #1286542, LP: #1279532, LP: #1287919.
[16:09] <barry> this week: hopefully returning to autopilot py3 and general py3.4 work.
[16:09] <barry> done
[16:13] <barry> slangasek: you're up
[16:13] <slangasek>  * buried in customer work all week
[16:13] <slangasek>  * resumes coming in for the Java role; going to give some of these to doko for review, could use more volunteers to help pare these down
[16:13] <slangasek> (done)
[16:13] <slangasek> doko:
[16:13] <doko> - Linaro Connect
[16:13] <doko> - fixing ftbfs
[16:13] <doko> - toolchain updates required for AArch64 and powerpc64le
[16:13] <doko> - +1 maintenance work
[16:13] <doko> - will be offline for the next 12 days, so pestering people to keep up with things while I'm away
[16:13] <doko> (done)
[16:14] <bdmurray> bug triage of foundations bugs
[16:14] <bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader with armhf and ppc64el test failure fix
[16:14] <bdmurray> research into software-properties test failures and gnupg debian bug 737128
[16:14] <bdmurray> reported gnupg bug regarding trustdb (issue 1622)
[16:14] <bdmurray> testing of bug 1280782
[16:14] <bdmurray> uploaded an attempt to fix bug 1280782 regarding tk8.5-lib
[16:14] <bdmurray> tested bug 1280782 some more and uploaded tcltk-defaults to fix that upgrade issue
[16:14] <bdmurray> commited a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1160346 based on a patch from a community member
[16:14] <bdmurray> uploaded a fix for ubuntu-release-upgrader bug 1285545 based off jibel's patch
[16:14] <bdmurray> fixed linux package hook bug when creating duplicate signatures
[16:14] <bdmurray> merge of colin king's kernel oops branch fixing some null pointers and memalloc issues
[16:14] <bdmurray> added a fix for kerneloops bug 1026300 with his changes
[16:14] <bdmurray> submitted RT regarding installing trusty gdb on the retracers
[16:14] <bdmurray> backported trusty version of gdb to precise and tested it on the apport-retracers in canonistack (success)
[16:14] <bdmurray> fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS
[16:15] <bdmurray> fixed an errors.ubuntu.com OOPS
[16:15] <bdmurray> modified errors to sort OOPS on user page by date they occurred not alphabetically
[16:15] <bdmurray> submitted RT to have errors updated
[16:15] <bdmurray> fixed errors tool to find a bucket for an instance
[16:15] <bdmurray> worked on modifications to apport to install specific package versions when retracing instead of using the latest
[16:15] <bdmurray> testing / improving whoopsie intergration-tests so we can move to prodstack
[16:15] <bdmurray> reported apport bug 1287460 regarding xdg-open and preferred browsers
[16:15] <bdmurray> SRU team work and mentoring of arges
[16:15] <bdmurray> ⌁done
[16:15] <bdmurray> bluetooth magicpad testing (trying to capture kerneloops)
[16:19] <slangasek> ah, we put infinity in the rotation, but he's probably asleep due to Macao :)
[16:19] <slangasek> cjohnston:
[16:19] <slangasek> er
[16:19] <slangasek> cjwatson:
[16:20] <cjwatson> Cherry-picked several easy fixes (mostly build/packaging, and bug 1285790) from my libclick work and landed them in click 0.4.16, by way of CI Train practice.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Pushed libclick out for review.  Went through my own proofreading pass in parallel; found and fixed several bugs.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Started work on converting some known click clients (upstart-app-launch, unity-scope-click, clickmanager-plugin) to libclick.  Some of this will need library equivalents of "click info" and "click list", so started on those too.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Worked on a branch to expose supported frameworks in libclick.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Landing libclick at the moment.  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~click-hackers/click/trunk/files/head:/click/tests/ (esp. gimock.py and some test file such as test_hooks.py) if you're interested in the crazy scheme I was talking about last week.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Fixed up python-tblib build problems (planning to use this for click later).
[16:20] <cjwatson> Merged gnutls28 security fixes.
[16:20] <cjwatson> Attempted to get ghc/arm64 building, prompted by a thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss; predictably failed.
[16:21] <cjwatson> Rooted my phone and set it up to dual-boot Ubuntu, so that I have a test system that doesn't make me want to throw things.
[16:21] <cjwatson> ..
[16:22] <xnox> * python3:
[16:22] <xnox>   - unity8, ubuntu-ui-toolkit, ofono, a few more clicks all landed.
[16:22] <xnox>   - next up: land phablet-tools py2&3 support
[16:22] <xnox>   - next up: continue testing/landing remaining clicks
[16:22] <xnox> * touch-x86:
[16:22] <xnox>   - worked on fixing up x86 cross toolchain, it still does not build
[16:22] <xnox>   with ssp.
[16:22] <xnox> * upstart/touch printing:
[16:22] <xnox>   - fixed cups socket activation with upstart, it mostly was s/-F/-f/
[16:22] <xnox>   in the cups upstart job + correct typos. (both -F/-f mean
[16:22] <xnox>   foreground, both change fg variable 0 => 1/-1, most things test for
[16:22] <xnox>   !fg, apart from one small portion which closes all passed FDs when
[16:22] <xnox>   running with -F instead of -f)
[16:22] <xnox>   - reviewed a few upstart merge proposals. We should be good for a
[16:22] <xnox>   bugfix heavy upstart release.
[16:22] <xnox> * aa/+1:
[16:22] <xnox>   - disentangled libav8 NBS by fixing a few packages and uploading
[16:22] <xnox>   patches to port mplayer to libav9 from gentoo, thus there is little
[16:22] <xnox>   removal damage - two small leave packages. (mplayer on the other
[16:22] <xnox>   hand has a lot of reverse dependencies).
[16:22] <xnox> ..
[16:23] <doko> x86 cross toolchain?
[16:23] <cjwatson> x86 bionic I guess?
[16:23] <xnox> yes.
[16:23] <doko> ahh, ok
[16:23] <doko> based on which 4.x?
[16:23] <cjwatson> cross for small values of cross
[16:24] <xnox> doko: 4.7, but it compiles bionic libc, somehow with missing symbols required for a working ssp. thus nothing links.
[16:24] <stgraber> LXC:
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Fixed quite a few lxc-ls bugs (nested unpriv containers, stopped containers, dealing with invalid config, ...)
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Fixed a small bug in the python3-lxc binding (missing exported function).
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Fixed some more corner cases of lxc-download
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Code reviews, testing and LXC on Android debugging
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Preparing for LXC 1.0.1, scheduled for later today
[16:24] <stgraber> CGManager support for logind:
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Got a patch covering all code paths we care about, now I just need to make this actually work...
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Landing for this will be blocked by the cgmanager MIR and by its own FFe
[16:24] <stgraber> Networking:
[16:24] <stgraber>  - Re-applied our ifenslave-2.6 delta to the new ifenslave source
[16:25] <stgraber>  - Started going through some of the bug reports
[16:25] <stgraber> System-image:
[16:25] <stgraber>  - Reviewed and merge/rejected all pending MPs for system-image/server
[16:25] <stgraber>  - Implemented code to rename channels and to create channel redirects (to transition users after a rename)
[16:25] <stgraber>  - Tested the planned rename of all existing channels to ubuntu-touch/<channel name>
[16:25] <stgraber> Other:
[16:25] <stgraber>  - Did a click landing.
[16:25] <stgraber> (DONE)
[16:26] <slangasek> ok, any questions over status?
[16:28] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:28] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:28] <bdmurray> could somebody look at bug 1288171?
[16:29] <barry> i will take a look
[16:29] <xnox> cjwatson: re:click landings what about lp:~xnox/click/chroot-sessions?
[16:29] <cjwatson> queued :)
[16:29] <barry> (it's already on my radar, i.e. browser tab)
[16:29] <cjwatson> I haven't forgotten, just been head-down on libclick
[16:29] <xnox> cjwatson: ack.
[16:31] <cjwatson> nothing else from here
[16:32] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:32] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 16:32:39 2014 UTC.
[16:32] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-16.06.moin.txt
[16:32] <slangasek> thanks, guys!
[16:32] <barry> thanks!
[16:32] <jodh> thanks!
[16:34] <stgraber> thanks!
[17:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:00] <dholbach> hello
[17:00] <YokoZar> morning
[17:01] <czajkowski> anyone here from the technical board
[17:02] <czajkowski> #startmeeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 17:02:29 2014 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:02] <dholbach> kees, mdeslaur, slangasek, stgraber: around?
[17:02] <czajkowski> #topic catch up with the Tech Board.
[17:02] <slangasek> dholbach: on the phone, but meaning to be around
[17:02] <mdeslaur> sure, I'm here
[17:03] <czajkowski> slangasek: mdeslaur howdy folks
[17:03] <slangasek> heya
[17:03] <mdeslaur> hi
[17:03] <czajkowski> So how are things in the TB going ?
[17:03] <czajkowski> care to give us an update ?
[17:03]  * pitti waves hello
[17:04] <slangasek> seems pretty low-key, really
[17:04] <slangasek> not much demand for our services :-)
[17:05] <pitti> I joined a few mins late, was there any question to the TB already?
[17:05] <dholbach> for those of you who haven't been around in the last meeting - the CC catches up with governance and community teams as part of our meeting to see how things are going and to have a look at "operations" from a bit of a distance :)
[17:05] <pitti> ah
[17:05] <dholbach> pitti, just generally asking how things have been going :)
[17:05] <pitti> well, we actually skipped the last few meetings due to not having any agenda
[17:05] <pitti> on the meetings we did have, things are usually going well, the biggest recent hiccup was the late re-election of the TB itself
[17:06] <pitti> but the day-to-day business is usually MREs and the like
[17:06] <dholbach> so the new TB members have settled in well in their low-key new activity? :)
[17:06] <czajkowski> pitti: yes we are sorry about that
[17:06] <pitti> it's been a while since we have had a long and difficult technical discussion
[17:06] <pleia2> o/
[17:06] <pitti> czajkowski: no worries, nobody's fault in particular
[17:06] <czajkowski> and hopefully we won't let it go that late again, the issues there was so many boards expiring at the same time, including the CC.
[17:06] <czajkowski> is it worth having a meeting even when there is a blank agenda so people can catch up
[17:07] <YokoZar> pitti: This is perhaps due to the LTS nature of Trusty making all reasonable decisions of this nature done well in advance, yes?
[17:07] <czajkowski> does the community know they can reach out to the TB ?
[17:07] <pitti> we used to have a lot more topics, but that was in the days when ubuntu was driven a lot more by UDSes and community
[17:07] <dholbach> so when there's been long discussions and difficult decisions, how did you feel it generally went?
[17:07] <pitti> and also because there is not that much major change going on in the non-phone-y bits
[17:07] <pitti> YokoZar: yeah, that too
[17:08] <pitti> dholbach: as they should go, really; I remember discussions like "should we install binary drivers by default", the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate, etc.
[17:08] <czajkowski> pitti: so how do you feel it is driven now considering we have online uds
[17:08] <pitti> we had a thorough discussion, voting, annoucned it to the devel crowd, and there generally hasn't been any negative feedback about those
[17:08] <czajkowski> which is great to see
[17:09] <dholbach> pitti, sure - I was just wondering if you were happy with that kind of discussions (so no major delays, everyone weighing in, decision making process is sufficiently refined, etc.)
[17:09] <pitti> dholbach: oh yes; we could have had some speedier discussions for sure, but that's just the nature of timezones and (often) email-based communication, so not much to complain from my side
[17:10] <czajkowski> nods
[17:10] <dholbach> cool
[17:10] <YokoZar> We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before?
[17:10] <dholbach> I guess that's similar for the CC as well :)
[17:10] <pitti> czajkowski: as I said, the desktop/server bits don't have a lot of structural change these days, so nothing that bubbles up to the TB
[17:10] <YokoZar> (we had a similar argument ~ the CC itself)
[17:10] <pitti> what I am missing a bit is to discuss technical architecture of the phone
[17:11] <czajkowski> pitti: ah interesting
[17:11] <czajkowski> where does that currently take place?
[17:11] <dholbach> pitti, do you have an example of what you feel would have warranted a discussion with the TB?
[17:11] <pitti> there's the ubuntu-phone@ ML and such
[17:11] <dholbach> (just to get an idea)
[17:11] <pitti> and most of the design decisions etc. are just fine
[17:12] <pitti> the main thing that comes to my mind is that in retrospect we should have discussed how to build the image-based upgrades without breaking /etc/ so hard
[17:12] <czajkowski> pitti: so you're saying you agree with them, but you'd like to see the TB perhaps involved more in the discussion or be involved more ?
[17:12] <pleia2> pitti: any thoughts from the tb regarding the init system stuff? (mark kind of announced it after debian made their decision "pending community discussion")
[17:12] <pleia2> seems like something the tb should have weighed in on first
[17:12] <pitti> pleia2: ah, I deliberately didn't bring that up -- but yes, that'll most certainly be a bigger discussion that comes in the next cycle :)
[17:13]  * pleia2 troublemaker :)
[17:13] <pitti> pleia2: well, we will
[17:13]  * pleia2 nods
[17:14] <dholbach> to be fair, Mark said "I will ask the Ubuntu tech board (many of whom do not work for Canonical) to review the position" :)
[17:14] <pleia2> yeah
[17:14] <pitti> czajkowski: yes, but this is the main issue I have really; and it's always easy to say in hindsight "we should have discussed that more", but not that easy to plan in advance
[17:14] <dholbach> but yeah :)
[17:15] <pitti> czajkowski: so I don't want to stress that too much really; but I think we need a version 2 of that, and thus maybe the TB is a good forum to discuss that new design
[17:15] <pitti> but yeah, in general I think it's working ok
[17:15] <czajkowski> pitti: I agree
[17:15] <czajkowski> so perhaps this is something we can raise and see if we can drive some discussion over to yo folks to get your experience in
[17:15] <dholbach> how much of the discussion happens on the mailing list and how much in meetings? do non-TB members weigh in as well?
[17:16] <czajkowski> and ask dholbach pointed out sabdfl did  say he would ask the TB
[17:16] <pitti> pleia2: I'm sure cjwatson and slangasek have a super-huge desire to discuss upstart vs. systemd soon :-) (it's not like they wasted many months of their lifetime thinking about it already..)
[17:16] <mdeslaur> hehe
[17:16] <pleia2> pitti: yeah, I followed the debian discussions
[17:16] <pitti> dholbach: historically, most in meetings due to the synchronous nature
[17:17] <pitti> dholbach: these days, small things like MRE requests or the LTS lifetimes are happening mostly over email as that's more practical
[17:17] <pitti> dholbach: and yes, we have non-TB members posting to the list
[17:17] <dholbach> yeah, that makes perfect sense
[17:17] <cjwatson> pitti: it's on the vUDS schedule I believe
[17:17] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, "fun" :)
[17:17] <pleia2> cjwatson: ah, great
[17:18] <sabdfl> hi all, sorry to be late
[17:19] <dholbach> so it sounds like the TB processes are well-oiled machinery... is there anything which has been on your collective minds to be changed at some stage? or things which have repeatedly been put on the backburner?
[17:19]  * pitti scratches head, nothing comes to my mind from the last 2 years really
[17:19] <dholbach> even better :)
[17:19] <YokoZar> I'll reraise my question from earlier, as I believe it got skipped: We put the TB on a 2 year cycle as well as the CC, do you guys feel it's correct for them to be replaced mid-way through an LTS cycle or should we move the elections to, say, just after the next LTS release rather than a few months before?
[17:19] <pitti> I think the OpenSSL vs. GPL debate came up several times
[17:20] <pleia2> oh, so the CC kept having meetings that had no agenda for a while, which is when we started doing these check-ins, I wonder if something similar might be useful for TB and dev teams?
[17:20] <slangasek> YokoZar: I have no strong opinion on this... more important is to not leave a gap, as we did last fall
[17:20] <pitti> YokoZar: ah, I didn't think that was aimed at TB; as the elections were supposed to happen much much earlier, it would have even been during saucy I believe
[17:21] <YokoZar> Right around saucy release
[17:21] <YokoZar> was original schedule I think
[17:21] <pleia2> yeah
[17:21] <pitti> YokoZar: I actually think it's quite a good time, as traditionally during the LTS cycles there's not that much to decide
[17:22] <YokoZar> pitti: hypothetically, though, if we replace the entire board it might make a bunch of new decisions
[17:22] <czajkowski> pitti: thanks for the udpate this has been great to her and nice to see a healthy TB
[17:22] <czajkowski> pleia2: indeed and I wondered if doing somehting similar for the TB would be useful for them to get to have more discussion here
[17:23] <czajkowski> YokoZar: same could be said for any board at any given time tbh
[17:23] <pitti> YokoZar: yes, but that could happen at any point?
[17:23] <YokoZar> czajkowski: pitti: for sure, but would it be "less bad" after an LTS rather than before?
[17:23] <pitti> so yes, if we elect a board that makes silly decisions, something went wrong before that
[17:23] <pitti> YokoZar: yes, perhaps
[17:23] <dholbach> did anyone see pleia2's question? I personally think it might be worth trying
[17:24] <pitti> YokoZar: but then a new board would actually be thrown into a time when there's potentially many discussions to make, which might be more overwhelming for new members?
[17:24] <czajkowski> pitti: mdeslaur slangasek how about whe you've  a blank agenda, still having a meeting
[17:24] <czajkowski> so people can see a discussion and join
[17:24] <czajkowski> we've started doing this and it's been very useful
[17:24] <mdeslaur> that's what we've done so far
[17:25] <YokoZar> Not sure how frequent it is for "lay folk" to pop into TB meetings and raise an issue, but it does happen with CC meetings from time to time
[17:25] <czajkowski> or you could arrange a catch up wth groups the tb has an interst in
[17:25] <pitti> we usually do
[17:25] <pitti> wait a bit
[17:25] <pitti> then say "nothing to discuss" and end it again
[17:25] <pitti> YokoZar: it does happen quite often; in fact that's the norm, as these days the TB rarely raises issues by themselves
[17:25] <pitti> i. e. someone adds an agenda item and then usually appears in the meeting
[17:26] <dholbach> great - as others have said... I'm quite happy with how the TB is working - I'm done with questions :)
[17:26] <dholbach> keep up the good work everyone! :)
[17:26] <YokoZar> pitti: so perhaps around a time when it's too late to reasonably change things in the LTS cycle, but before hecticness of post-release.  Like around the next UDS we're having.
[17:26] <pleia2> thanks pitti :)
[17:26] <YokoZar> What if elections were considerably before terms starting?
[17:26] <pitti> YokoZar: yeah, sounds good
[17:27] <YokoZar> Like we vote around now, and incoming members start their term after LTS release
[17:27] <pitti> YokoZar: I don't like that very much, I must say; I think it's good for the old board to have a last meeting after the election to hand over, but not much more
[17:27] <pitti> but I don't have a strong opinion on that
[17:28] <YokoZar> Relatedly, I am encouraged by the lack of strong opinions regarding our election rules, it means our politics aren't particularly "politics" ;)
[17:28] <czajkowski> any other questions folks before we wrap up
[17:28]  * sabdfl is still reading the scrollback
[17:28] <pitti> YokoZar: or that things are mostly going well and all that's left to do is finetuning :)
[17:28] <czajkowski> YokoZar: you just like running polls! admit it :P
[17:30] <YokoZar> This is not an "admission" any more than one confesses to liking the sunrise
[17:30] <pleia2> hehe
[17:32] <sabdfl> regarding init
[17:32] <sabdfl> if the TB has a strong opinion different to the broad roadmap of "adopting systemd on an appropriate schedule" then i'm very open to hearing it
[17:33] <pitti> sabdfl: probably the wrong place here, but FWIW, I agree to you
[17:33] <pitti> sabdfl: seeing how much recent action there is in Debian towards adding native systemd packagse to stuff, I think in a year or so we'll have this robust enough
[17:34] <pitti> sabdfl: with RHEL7 moving to systemd the server world ought to catch up quickly
[17:34] <sabdfl> my commentary was not to subvert the TB, but to express that there is no ideological attachment to code that 'belongs' to Canonical
[17:34] <pitti> the desktop world pretty much worked two years ago already, but our concern was the server back then
[17:34] <sabdfl> we'll move where works best, and i trust the TB to map that out
[17:34] <pitti> so for me it's not a question of "if", but "when/how"
[17:35] <YokoZar> So, not understanding much of ubuntu-phone, how specific are the phone-related technical decisions that we can expect in the future?
[17:35] <pitti> as long-term it seems much better to follow Debian than eternally diverging
[17:35] <pitti> YokoZar: they are actually meant to become less and less phone specific over time
[17:35] <pitti> YokoZar: "convergence"
[17:35] <slangasek> pitti: I don't believe that RHEL7 is doing anything that we'll significantly be able to leverage; too much of this is integration work which doesn't translate
[17:36] <slangasek> but I'm not sure the CC meeting is the place to have this discussion :)
[17:36] <pitti> YokoZar: i. e. the phone is by and large a playground (excuse the wording, sabdfl) for trying out new technology like upgrades or display server
[17:36] <pitti> without the need for backwards compat
[17:36] <YokoZar> Yes, I imagined that was the eventual goal of any reasonable implementation.
[17:36] <YokoZar> I would hope phone would soon be "absorbed" into the rest of Ubuntu governance smoothly
[17:36] <pitti> YokoZar: yes, AFAIUI that's the plan
[17:36] <sabdfl> this was a particularly difficult thing to watch unfold, since in a sense we were never consulted on an issue with major consequences for us, and we're a member of the family
[17:36] <sabdfl> but then, some would argue we had great representation at the table, only wearing different hats
[17:36] <sabdfl> nothing more from me, thanks TB for checking in
[17:37] <pitti> the phone has laid a lot of new approaches to both technology (like Mir) and methods (like CI)
[17:37] <YokoZar> And, say, phone community == ubuntu community and phone tech decisions == ubuntu tech decisions with the same relevant governance
[17:37] <pitti> and they are certainly meant to be used on desktop in the future as well
[17:38] <pitti> in practice they are still quite separated these days, but I think that's mostly due to the LTS
[17:38] <pitti> e. g. we can't/shouldn't land things like Mir/Unity 8 now
[17:38] <pitti> and likewise can't turn our upgrade mechanics upside down now
[17:39] <czajkowski> pitti: I like those honest decisisons where we admit things aren't ready even when we wish they were
[17:39] <YokoZar> Do you think the archive itself might continue some of this delta?  I vaguely worry about a future where we have, say, the arm arch for desktop packages have a lot of phone-specific deltas with a separate decision tree from the rest of the distro
[17:40] <czajkowski> any other comments folks before we wrap it up
[17:40] <mdeslaur> there is no archive delta for the phone at the moment
[17:40] <dholbach> YokoZar, that sounds like a summary for the work leading up to the next LTS - bringing unity8 to the desktop and making the convergence happen :)
[17:40] <mdeslaur> it's just using a different version of unity
[17:41] <pitti> YokoZar: yes, it's less along the lines of architecture and more of package selection
[17:41] <pitti> unity8-desktop-session-{mir,x11} in trusty :)
[17:41] <pitti> I expect that to become the default soon
[17:41] <pitti> i. e. convergence to make a leap in 14.10
[17:41] <YokoZar> mdeslaur: Right, and perhaps if we do convergence especially "wrong" in the future we might have different versions of a lot of things on phone vs desktop
[17:42] <pitti> sabdfl: btw, any chance we can get the u name before the release? it's needed in a couple of places, and last time we had to do a number of SRUs due to that
[17:42] <YokoZar> ugh
[17:42] <YokoZar> I'll follow up with him (he left)
[17:42] <YokoZar> Though
[17:42] <YokoZar> I have hounded him with that question before
[17:42] <pitti> ah
[17:42] <YokoZar> I suspect hearing it from the TB as well might help
[17:43] <czajkowski> ok thanks folks
[17:43] <dholbach> thanks a lot everyone!
[17:43] <mdeslaur> thanks!
[17:43] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[17:43] <YokoZar> Mark WILL delay the full name as long as possible for marketing/other purposes though
[17:43] <YokoZar> Thank you folks
[17:44] <dholbach> Do we have any other business?
[17:44] <czajkowski> #action YokoZar Mail Mark re  U name for the TB to use for opening up next release
[17:44] <meetingology> ACTION: YokoZar Mail Mark re  U name for the TB to use for opening up next release
[17:44] <czajkowski> #endmeeting
[17:44] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 17:44:44 2014 UTC.
[17:44] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-17.02.moin.txt
[17:45] <dholbach> thanks czajkowski
[17:46] <slangasek> thanks :)
[21:58] <roadmr> juuust waiting for the precise package to actually be published
[22:04] <spineau1> no meeting today? :-(
[22:06] <spineau> hggdh: hello, no meeting today?
[22:09] <spineau> PabloRubianes: hello, no membership meeting today?
[22:09] <PabloRubianes> spineau, I don't see other members from the board
[22:09] <PabloRubianes> :S
[22:09] <PabloRubianes> checking
[22:11] <cjohnston> !rmb
[22:14] <PabloRubianes> cjohnston, there's no quorum :S
[22:15] <cjohnston> nope
[22:15] <roadmr> :(
[22:15]  * spineau will go to bed a bit sad
[22:17]  * toddy gives spineau a cookie
[22:18] <hggdh> o/
[22:18] <hggdh> sorry, on a meeting up to now
[22:20] <pleia2> I can pitch in if you need a 4th
[22:20] <IdleOne> I'm also here
[22:20] <IdleOne> that makes 5
[22:20] <pleia2> oh good, no need for me :)
[22:20] <spineau> and I'm still here :)
[22:20] <hggdh> :-)
[22:20] <IdleOne> someone sit on the chair and get this started
[22:20] <roadmr> \o/
[22:21] <hggdh> ok
[22:21] <spineau> hey hggdh
[22:21] <hggdh> #startmeeting Ubuntu membership Board
[22:21] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 22:21:24 2014 UTC.  The chair is hggdh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[22:21] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[22:21] <hggdh> spineau: long time :-)
[22:21] <spineau> hggdh: indeed, 2010?
[22:22] <hggdh> OK. We are now on the meeting. We will go by the order in the wiki.
[22:22] <hggdh> the first one is ...
[22:23] <hggdh> rohsigma. Is he online?
[22:23] <hggdh> actually, rhosigma
[22:23] <hggdh> no...
[22:24] <hggdh> #topic -- spineau for Ubuntu Member
[22:24] <hggdh> spineau: please go ahead and introduce yourself
[22:24] <spineau> ok
[22:24] <spineau> Hello, I'm Sylvain Pineau (Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SylvainPineau, LP: https://launchpad.net/~sylvain-pineau)
[22:24] <spineau> I live in France and I'm working for the Hardware Certification Team at Canonical
[22:24] <spineau> My main focus is QA automation for Ubuntu, I'm one of the core developper of Checkbox, the system testing application that we have on the CD since 2008.
[22:24] <spineau> I led a vUDS session last November to share the Checkbox roadmap for Trusty.
[22:24] <spineau> I'm also an upstream maintainer of several Checkbox dependencies in Debian
[22:25] <spineau> I contribute to kernel SRU testing and made various contributions to other test frameworks used by the community.
[22:26] <hggdh> I see you have some testimonials :-)
[22:26] <spineau> hggdh: indeed, and roadmr accepted to be online with uq
[22:26] <spineau> us
[22:26]  * roadmr waves - here to support spineau
[22:27] <hggdh> roadmr: hi, I see you :-)
[22:27] <hggdh> I have no questions for you -- I know your work...
[22:27] <spineau> I didn't mention UEC ;-)
[22:28] <IdleOne> Go ahead and mention it a little
[22:28] <hggdh> #voters IdleOne hggdh cjohnston PabloRubianes
[22:28] <meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne PabloRubianes cjohnston hggdh
[22:29] <spineau> UEC was Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud, I wrote some tests for it
[22:29] <hggdh> yeah. UEC was fun regarding tests...
[22:29] <spineau> it was using eucalyptus before we decided to use openstack
[22:30] <cjohnston> spineau: do you do anything with a LoCo team or anything else? All I see on your wiki appears to be related to what you do for your job
[22:30] <spineau> cjohnston: I'm not involved with a French loco team, I'm too far from Paris TBH
[22:31] <spineau> cjohnston: I attended to some Perl Mongers meetings but that's  unrelated to ubuntu
[22:33] <spineau> Usually my main way to contribute is via triaging or via IRC
[22:33] <IdleOne> How do you contribute via IRC specifically?
[22:34] <spineau> IdleOne: answering/asking questions
[22:35] <spineau> IdleOne: we created #checkbox to help people who wants to start using the checkbox toolset
[22:35] <spineau> on freenode
[22:36] <hggdh> spineau: anything more to add on community involvement?
[22:37] <hggdh> otherwise, time to vote
[22:37] <hggdh> #vote on spineau for Ubuntu member
[22:37] <meetingology> Please vote on: on spineau for Ubuntu member
[22:37] <meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
[22:37] <spineau> hggdh: I provided QA support to other test frameworks over the past years
[22:38] <IdleOne> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from IdleOne
[22:38] <spineau> hggdh: outside of myu role at canonical
[22:38] <PabloRubianes> +0
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 received from PabloRubianes
[22:38] <cjohnston> +0 I'd like to see my community involvement
[22:38] <meetingology> +0 I'd like to see my community involvement received from cjohnston
[22:38] <IdleOne> s/my/more/
[22:38] <hggdh> +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement
[22:38] <meetingology> +1 -- I *know* you, so the plus one. But we need to see more community involvement received from hggdh
[22:39] <hggdh> #endvote
[22:39] <meetingology> Voting ended on: on spineau for Ubuntu member
[22:39] <meetingology> Votes for:1 Votes against:0 Abstentions:3
[22:39] <meetingology> Motion carried
[22:39] <cjohnston> IdleOne: ya.. that too
[22:39] <hggdh> spineau: unfortunately, I think the lack of visible community involvement was it.
[22:40] <hggdh> spineau: may I suggest you to beef up the wiki with more community work, and then reapply?
[22:40] <spineau> hggdh: I will, thank you
[22:41] <IdleOne> spineau: thank you. I hope to see you back in a few months
[22:41] <hggdh> spineau: please do no give up. I would be proud to have you as a member.
[22:41] <hggdh> so. Keeping on
[22:42] <spineau> ok, again thank you for your time
[22:42] <hggdh> since rhosigma is not online, I think this is it for this meeting.
[22:42] <hggdh> #endmeeting
[22:42] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Mar  6 22:42:23 2014 UTC.
[22:42] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-03-06-22.21.moin.txt
[22:42] <cjohnston> Thanks spineau and hggdh
[22:43] <IdleOne> pleia2: you still there?
[22:44] <pleia2> mhmm
[22:45] <IdleOne> did you receive that invite to the rmb channel?
[22:45] <pleia2> yes, but it got lost in my status window that I never look at :)
[22:45] <IdleOne> lol, look at it please. we need some clarification
[23:08] <IdleOne> AlanBell: Does meetingology have a #command that allows the chair to set a required positive total for a motion to be considered as carried?
[23:13] <IdleOne> oh it does
[23:13] <IdleOne> #votesrequired
[23:13] <pleia2> ah, nice :)
[23:13]  * pleia2 learned something new
[23:14] <IdleOne> ok so CC we need some help with that email I sent
[23:14] <IdleOne> :)
[23:15] <IdleOne> hmm, that doesn't do exactly what I thought it did
[23:15] <IdleOne> that sets the number of votes needed for a vote to be consider "voted on"