/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/08/#ubuntu-za.txt

Private_Userexperiencing very slow internet connections anybody else having the same issue?02:27
Kilosmorning all05:23
Kiloshi feloegu 05:23
Kilosfeloegu would you like some coffee?06:29
KilosMaaz coffee on06:29
* Maaz washes some mugs06:29
MaazCoffee's ready for Kilos!06:33
KilosMaaz ty06:33
MaazYou are welcome Kilos06:33
Kilosmorning superfly 07:04
superflyhi Kilos07:06
Kilostrying out hexchat, hope it has sound alerts07:16
Kilos-Maaz hi07:18
* Maaz waves to Kilos-07:18
=== Kilos- is now known as Kilos
Kiloshi Tinuva 07:39
Kilosjust installed hexchat and sound works.but only a little ping sound07:40
Kiloswill get bell.ogg into its brain07:40
magespawngood morning08:06
Golynxhi magespawn08:08
Kiloshi magespawn Golynx 08:29
* Kilos going to town to get telkom modem now08:29
Kiloswanna talk to you later about opera please Golynx 08:29
Golynxhi Kilos08:30
Golynxokay08:30
magespawnhey Kilos09:22
Kiloshmm...10:59
charl_good afternoon10:59
charl_Maaz: coffee on10:59
* Maaz starts grinding coffee10:59
charl_hi Kilos 10:59
Kiloshi charl_ 10:59
charl_how's it going11:01
magespawnhi charl_ 11:01
charl_hi magespawn 11:01
Kilosjust got back from buying a talkom starter pack with modem11:01
charl_how's the dsl router going11:01
Kiloshard work going shopping11:01
charl_Kilos: don't you already have a modem?11:01
Kilosya but keeps disconnecting11:02
Kilosnow for once i have a new modern modem11:02
charl_Kilos: is that the fault of the modem or the network ?11:02
charl_maybe you need an external antenna11:02
Kilossomething funny. it shows connected still in nm but nothing works11:03
charl_hmmm11:03
Kilosno man i get good signal here from the tower11:03
charl_which modem did you buy ?11:03
MaazCoffee's ready for charl_!11:03
charl_Maaz: thanks11:03
Maazcharl_: Sure11:03
Kilosi gotta still open it to see what brand it it11:03
charl_ah ok11:03
Kilossays D-link and telkom mobile on the cover11:04
charl_ah11:04
charl_taiwan... very good11:04
Kilossays 14.4 mb/s11:04
charl_a modern 3g modem should be able to handle that11:04
charl_provided you have a good signal11:05
Kilosyeah i get 3 bars here11:05
Kilosi can see the tower about 500m away11:05
Kilosfeloegu you still quiet?11:06
Kiloscharl_ check if its a bot11:07
Golynxhi charl_11:10
charl_hi Golynx 11:10
Golynxwb Kilos11:10
charl_Kilos: i get no ctcp version response... looks like a bot11:11
charl_or somebody who disabled all ctcp responses11:11
Kilosty11:12
Kiloswill watch11:12
charl_yw11:12
Golynxshouldnt one ask permission to add a bot to a channel11:12
Kilosactually yes11:12
charl_Kilos: and it's connecting from a russian IP11:13
charl_yup looks a lot like a bot11:13
charl_Golynx: friendly bots shouldn't be a problem but it looks like something shady11:13
Kiloswe need an op to kick it11:13
charl_Golynx: all bots should at least respond with a valid ctcp version11:13
Golynxoh ok thanks11:14
charl_Kilos: why you asking, has it done something?11:14
Kiloshad a spate of them yesterday on other channels too11:14
charl_bah11:14
Kilosthis is the 5th one11:14
charl_sheesh11:15
charl_i wasn't on freenode yesterday11:15
Kilosi dunno what they can do here without one seeing it11:15
Kilosfeloegu ping11:16
charl_that feloegu doesn't even respond with a ctcp ping, something weird11:16
Kilosi wonder if its not them things that are used in ddos attacks on freenode11:18
Golynxmaybe those ddos freaks testing some new attack11:18
charl_who knows, probably11:19
charl_or it's just for spamming people11:19
Kilossuperfly ideas?11:20
charl_Kilos: don't worry about it too much, it isn't seem to be doing anything at the moment11:40
charl_just ping superfly or inetpro when they come back11:40
superfly!bot11:43
superflysometimes that triggers them11:43
Kilosfeloegu !bot11:47
Kilossuperfly lets just kick the thing11:47
charl_a truly malicious bot will not be fooled that easily11:48
charl_but as far as i'm concerned, a client that does not respond with a ctcp version is a problem 11:48
superflyI know that Quassel had a bug a few years ago in how it dealt with CTCP requests, so the only way to stay on IRC when someone was exploiting it was to turn off CTCP11:51
superfly(they came into #quassel and started CTCP pinging everyone in there... was quite a fun day)11:51
charl_looooool11:51
charl_hilarious11:52
Kilosi turned off ctcp replies in hexchat here now11:52
charl_Kilos: you're using hexchat? on ubuntu?11:53
Kilosyeah11:53
charl_irssi is very good at handling ctcp requests, so i have no worries here11:53
superflyyeah, they fixed the bug that day and it rolled out over the next week to all the distros11:53
Kiloslot like xchat and if gives a timid alert where xchat had no sound alert11:53
charl_Kilos: i tried to install the ppa but it gave me a lot of errors on apt-get update11:54
charl_Kilos: apparently the package sources weren't valid or could not be found or something11:54
Kiloswow mine worked fine11:54
charl_Kilos: for the last two days in the office i was using hexchat on manjaro11:55
charl_i really like the feature where you can color-code usernames ...11:55
Kilosit seems close to what xchat was before it started giving sound probs11:55
Kilosthats too involved for me11:55
inetprosuperfly: IIRC proper support for both DCC and CTCP is not yet included in Quassel11:56
Kilosinetpro hi11:56
Kiloskill the bot11:56
inetprohello11:56
superflyinetpro: DCC is not included, CTCP is.11:56
inetprosuperfly: but is it completely implemented?11:57
charl_what no irc client with dcc support ?11:57
* inetpro looks at a very paranoid kilos11:57
Kiloshehe11:57
superflyI don't know... I would presume so, but since I never use it...11:57
Kiloskill it11:57
charl_*an irc client11:57
charl_*with no dcc support11:58
charl_phew i need to have more coffee :)11:58
charl_Maaz: coffee on11:58
* Maaz flips the salt-timer11:58
charl_hi Iraeeu 11:58
IraeeuHey11:58
* inetpro prefers a simple irc client without too many features11:58
Kiloshi Iraeeu welcome to ubuntu-za11:58
inetprodcc is not needed on irc11:59
inetproIMHO11:59
Kilosdoesnt it just work?11:59
charl_you don't _need_ it but if you have no dcc you can't get files off file servers11:59
charl_dcc is extremely old though, i can't believe there are clients that still don't support it12:00
inetprodcc is probably the biggest reason why irc is so unstable at times12:01
inetprotoo many peeps exploiting it12:01
charl_that makes no sense, irc is only used to extablishing the connection12:01
charl_why exploiting ?12:01
MaazCoffee's ready for charl_!12:02
charl_Maaz: thanks, now maybe i can wake up :)12:02
Maazcharl_: One learns a new thing every day12:02
IraeeuIs this like a professional ubuntu chat or just a social hang out?12:03
Kilosthe pro one Iraeeu 12:04
superflyIraeeu: this is the official channel of the Ubuntu South Africa local community12:04
Kilosthe social is at ##ubuntu-za-social12:04
inetproand the social is non-official12:05
Kilosbut we socialise here too12:06
inetproIraeeu: is there something we can help with?12:06
IraeeuNot much, im just busy configuring a home server, trying to decide if I should install nfs-kernel-server or samba for file access12:06
Iraeeuprobably better suited for the social channel12:07
charl_Iraeeu: personally i use sshfs because it's secure12:07
KilosIraeeu you can get help here the social channel is kinda empty12:08
Kilosall the brains are here12:08
inetproIraeeu: no problem to chat in here, we're not a support channel12:08
Kilosnoobs chat on the social channel12:08
inetpronon of us is paid to be here12:09
IraeeuI have sftp set up already, but I need something more user friendly for my parents, I will look into sshfs though12:09
charl_what client are they running ?12:10
charl_if you are connecting from windows client probably samba is best12:10
Iraeeu12 LTS on the server, connecting with mac12:11
charl_oh, then samba yeah12:12
charl_mac is a good samba client12:12
inetprocloud services like Ubuntu One or Dropbox are also good options for sharing files these days12:12
charl_nfs afaik is a security nightmare12:12
charl_inetpro: well then you have to trust caninical or dropbox with all your data12:12
charl_*canonical12:12
inetprocharl_: or you cook your own12:12
charl_i have a friend who tried owncloud but that ended up being a nightmare12:13
Iraeeucool thanks, yea its just a raid server for storing family photos, I don't really want to use a cloud server because my home internet connection is too slow12:13
charl_(according to him)12:13
inetprolike ownCloud12:13
superflyor you can run ownCloud12:13
superflycharl_: works for me. no hassles12:13
charl_interesting12:13
superflydespite being PHP12:13
charl_aaargh php :(12:14
KilosIraeeu where are you?12:14
IraeeuI set up a php intranet connection to amazon s3 and glacier for work, but they have a better internet connection at the office 12:15
Golynxwho dissing PHP  :| 12:15
IraeeuownCloud seems like a mess12:15
IraeeuJHB12:15
superflyGolynx: no one, it disses itself12:15
Golynxwho's*12:15
Golynxhey Iraeeu12:15
IraeeuHi12:16
Golynxsuperfly i see nothing wrong with php. It does what its designed for really.12:16
superflyGolynx: uh, yeah. let's just not go there, mkay?12:16
Iraeeuyea, its getting better with composer as well12:16
superflyGolynx: what's the URL to one of your sites?12:16
Golynxsuperfly ok cool 12:16
IraeeuDo you have any tips on getting my local server to stay on the same IP? I don't want it to change around after a power cut or restart...12:17
Golynxsuperfly: what do you mean12:17
superflyGolynx: show me one of your sites, I want to see if I can show you something about PHP12:18
GolynxIraeeu: yeah composer is nice12:18
charl_Iraeeu: do you use dhcp on your lan? what's the dhcp server, dsl/cable router?12:19
Golynxsuperfly: lol no need to test for xss, url injection or any other vulnerabilities. Thats the first thing i sort out ;)12:20
Golynxthanks anyway12:20
superflyOh, I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about stuff built into PHP :-)12:20
charl_hi Rynomster 12:21
Kiloscool Iraeeu there are quite a few ubuntu and linux peeps in jhb12:21
IraeeuProbably just the router might sort out the dhcp, need to check 12:21
Kilosand we are here all the time12:21
charl_Iraeeu: you should be able to configure it on the router, give the same static ip to the mac address of your server12:22
Kilosinetpro i got a telkom modem12:22
Kiloscan do 14.4 mb/s12:22
Kilosso now you okes can stop telling me to get a decent modem12:23
Golynxsuperfly, hmm, if you can explain in a few sentences what it is you wana do ?12:23
Kilosthat wonderpark shopping centre is massive hey?12:23
KilosGolynx the fly wont damage anything. you can only learn from his help12:24
charl_yes listen and learn Golynx 12:26
charl_xss, csrf etc can affect all sites regardless of server side language12:27
charl_sql injection etc12:27
Golynxsuperfly ok here is an old php site jarrydx86.byethost22.com/index.php12:27
Golynxhttp://jarrydx86.byethost22.com/index.php12:28
Golynxcharl_ lol i know :p12:30
superflyGolynx: your server is running PHP 5.5, am I right?12:30
Golynxsuperfly that one is php 5.312:30
charl_hi psydroid_ :)12:31
charl_how's the weather in poland12:31
Kiloshi psydroid_ long time no see12:31
superflyNope, otherwise I'd be able to bring up the PHP logo and the PHP credits12:31
charl_superfly: some phpinfo thing?12:32
Golynxhmm, so you just wana show the php info12:32
superflycharl_: there are some PHP GUIDs that you can supply on the URL, and PHP will show the credits or the logo12:32
superflyhttp://www.phpsadness.com/sad/1112:32
psydroid_hi charl_ :)12:33
charl_ah what a disaster12:33
psydroid_hi Kilos 12:33
psydroid_hi superfly 12:33
psydroid_hi Golynx 12:33
psydroid_yeah12:33
superflyhi psydroid_12:33
psydroid_I left my previous job12:33
psydroid_and started working here12:33
psydroid_and have been living at a hostel for this past week12:33
IraeeuI was expecting some kind of clever social engineering, but all you want to do is show the php logo lol12:33
psydroid_yesterday I got my own apartment12:34
psydroid_so I am returning to normal life12:34
Kiloscool psydroid_ 12:34
Golynxlol and here i thought your gona deface the page or something 12:34
Golynxbut cool bug :)12:34
charl_psydroid_: nice in which city are you staying now (if i may ask) ?12:34
Golynxhi psydroid12:34
charl_superfly: that whole site is very good, for why not to use php, i might use it at works thanks12:35
charl_*at work12:35
superflycharl_: you're welcome :-)12:35
superflyGolynx: there's a difference between a bug and intended behaviour. That is intended behaviour.\12:36
Golynxsuperfly oh okay12:38
Golynxthats too risky of an intended behaviour12:38
psydroid_charl_, in Bydgoszcz, I work at Atos12:40
charl_googling...12:40
charl_oh that's nice and central12:41
charl_atos very nic e!12:41
Kiloswow how do you pronounce that12:42
charl_psydroid_: you're not allowed to use email internally?12:42
charl_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atos12:42
charl_In 2011 Atos introduced a Zero Email initiative,[20] banning email as a form of internal communications, except for use with customers and prospects.[21]12:43
psydroid_charl_, I think they mostly use Lync12:44
psydroid_I haven12:44
psydroid_I haven't had to do much yet12:45
psydroid_bbs12:46
charl_http://www.bluekiwi-software.com/en/products/bluekiwi-zen/12:47
charl_interesting, we are busy with a similar project at work12:47
charl_we also have lync12:47
GolynxKilos what was that thing about Opera12:48
charl_http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/applications/3409636/atos-drives-for-zero-email-with-bluekiwi-zen-roll-out/12:48
charl_"CEO Thierry Breton believes that internal email systems fuel data overloads"12:49
charl_"He also said that young Atos staff joining the company are unfamiliar with established internal email systems like Outlook, having been weaned on Facebook and Twitter, and external email systems like Hotmail and Yahoo."12:49
charl_"Atos’ Breton said at the end of last year that the drive to throw out email was driven by the discovery that his staff received over 100 emails a day, and that reading and replying to these took up to 20 hours of their work week."12:50
charl_"The Atos boss said that internal email systems fuel data overloads and generated messages that were not useful and wasted the time of those receiving and managing them."12:50
charl_extremely interesting, very much matches my personal experience12:50
GolynxThere's just so many python web frameworks. One does one thing better then the other. One is hard to learn. One is too simple. One is not scalable etc... https://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks13:00
Golynxai, Iraeeu didnt feel at home 13:01
Kilosai!13:02
charl_people come, people go13:03
charl_some people stick around, others don't13:04
Kiloswe didnt offer him coffee13:04
Kilosthats why13:04
charl_lol13:04
charl_or rusks13:04
Golynx<Kilos - 10:29> wanna talk to you later about opera please Golynx </Kilos>13:04
Kilosoh ya13:04
Kiloswas about the opera mail client13:05
Kilosyou gotta look at mail online? it doesnt download new mails13:05
Golynxyou can choose pop3 or IMAP13:05
Kilosi did choose pop313:06
Golynxi just choose IMAP 13:06
Kilosbut it dint bring anything down13:06
Golynxhmm13:06
Kilosoh and there is a fb fixer thing too13:06
Kilosnever mind now i gonna lie down a while13:07
Kiloshead thumoing13:07
Kilosthumping13:07
Golynxfb fixer ?13:07
Kilosi forget the extension name13:07
Kilosit can tweak fbook so you dont see all the junk i think13:08
Golynxoh nah , i dont load any extensions13:08
Golynxcool13:08
Kiloswill look later13:08
Golynxdrink lots of water fr the thumping13:09
Golynxfor*13:09
Golynxdrums dont beat well under water lol13:09
Kilosna its from pinched nerves where skull grew back together13:09
Kiloswas a long day walking around shops13:10
Golynxoh okay 13:10
Golynxhave a good rest13:10
Kilosty13:10
Golynxyw13:10
charl_didn't feel welcome either :)13:23
Golynxlol13:25
inetproKilos: sorry, I was just out again... glad to see you got a new modem13:54
inetprooh and yeah that shopping centre in my home valley is massive now13:55
inetprofamily and friends from rural no longer need to go to menlyn when they come here to visit13:56
inetprofunny thing is that when people from rural come to Pretoria for shopping they seem to think that menlyn is the only place they can go to13:57
Trixar_zaI was in Pretoria a few months and I actually never shopped there14:05
Trixar_zaMost of my time was spent in Hatfield14:06
charl_oh i used to work in hatfield14:09
charl_hi theblazehen 14:09
theblazehenhey charl_ 14:09
Trixar_zaI'm so happy with my R250 bucks refurbished system :P - It's a HP Compaq 7600 and just came with the Box, power supply and CPU (3GHz), but I got 1GB RAM from a buddy, transferred over my DVD/CD Writer Combo and put in a 160GB laptop HDD I had been using as an external. Instant system :)14:10
charl_how many cores?14:10
charl_intel/amd? hyperthreading?14:11
Trixar_zaHyper Threading14:11
charl_???14:11
Trixar_zaI actually learned something yesterday from Squirm - The Hyper Threading actually makes the CPU report as two CPUs14:11
Trixar_zaYeah, it's an Intel P414:12
charl_oh14:12
charl_so single core14:12
Trixar_zaYeah14:12
charl_Trixar_za: just look at any tool that you see cpu usage then you can see it with two processors14:12
Trixar_zaIt's one of those flat desktop PCs14:12
charl_and then you can see it first filling up the first thread on each core and then the second thread when all cores have at least the first thread busy14:12
charl_that sounds like a really old system though14:13
Trixar_zaYeah, but it was R250 - so I wasn't expecting much14:13
Trixar_zaRuns like a dream though14:13
charl_lol14:13
charl_for a basic linux box it's ok though14:13
charl_an old system like that you would have to give away for free here14:14
Trixar_zaWhere are you based now? Oo14:15
charl_still in NL14:15
charl_i don't move around much14:15
Trixar_zaI hear they have monthly music festivals for chiptune music14:16
Trixar_zaSounds pretty cool14:16
charl_where is that?14:16
charl_bah i would not want to listen to chiptune for long14:16
Trixar_zalol, some of it is pretty good14:17
charl_i might listen to something on the odd occasion on youtube14:17
charl_but going to an actual music festival ? nah14:17
Trixar_zaThey invite the best mixers and trackers in the world to play live14:17
charl_i wouldn't mind seeing a recording, if you have a link please send it on14:17
Trixar_zaMight just be monthly show - I was half listening to the guy that was talking about it14:17
charl_maybe they combine it with other stuff14:17
Trixar_zahttp://eindbaas.org/14:19
Trixar_zaThat's the one14:19
Trixar_zaI want to go there atleast once14:19
charl_what are you kidding me14:20
charl_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5I7jIUI4ec14:20
charl_this is madness14:21
charl_ooh i get a headache just listening to it14:21
charl_no thank you then i'll rather hit up some hardstyle outdoor festival14:21
Trixar_zalol14:21
Trixar_zaChiptunes are pretty big up there14:22
charl_eh... with some people perhaps14:22
charl_a small minority14:22
Trixar_zaIt's insane how they do some of those mixes14:22
Trixar_zaSome are made on ancient gameboys14:22
charl_it's cool out of a curiocity standpoint14:23
KilosGolynx the extension is called fb purity14:24
KilosF.B.Purity14:25
GolynxKilos i only use fb mobile on pc. This extension is for pc version14:30
Kilosah14:30
Golynxyou can look at http://user-guide.fbpurity.com too14:31
Kilosok ty14:31
Kilosyeah lloks like just what i need if i go there14:35
Kiloslooks too14:36
Golynxnice14:37
Golynxhi not_found15:27
Golynxhi bmg50515:27
not_foundhiya Golynx 15:28
Kiloshi not_found hows neelsie16:21
not_foundhey uncle Kilos ... frustrated but good thanks16:21
not_foundand you?16:22
Kilosim good ty. why you frustrated16:22
not_foundbecause sometimes things that should be simple is so hard in linux :/ they should really revamp the whole sound architecture the same as they are trying to do with Wayland/Mir16:23
Kilosyou battling with sound?16:23
Kilossound and graphics are the main prob areas seems to me16:24
not_foundtrying to stream some games, but I also want to have mic audio ... alsa/pulse can't do this so you need to start playing with things like Jack... then it still doens't work, and after an update Jack doesn't ant to start... then you throw your PC out the window and it doesn't want to start up... :p16:25
theblazehennot_found, does it POST?16:41
not_foundlol, was kidding about throwing out the window... wanted to however :p16:41
charl_hi not_found 16:46
charl_wb Rynomster 16:46
not_foundhi charl_ 16:47
charl_how's it going in the desert16:49
charl_why be doing nothing in ruwait... when you can be doing nothing in ruwait? :)16:49
charl_i did enjoy that video (clearly)16:50
not_foundlol16:51
not_foundIt was funny...16:51
not_foundif the guy that created it ever sets foot back here he will be arrested but still funny :p16:51
charl_really? it's that bad?16:51
charl_no freedom of speach in arab countries still?16:52
charl_*speech16:52
not_foundnew law came out that forbids one to put anything on line that is deemed to put the country in a bad light...16:53
not_foundfreedoms here come and go...16:53
Kilosyay feloegu gone16:55
not_foundI see the bulls got a last minute bonus point :D16:56
Kilosmnet been scramble here all day for some reason16:57
not_foundwho is feloegu uncle Kilos ?16:57
Kilosso no rugger for me16:57
Kiloswas a bot that was here 16:57
not_foundoh haha ok16:57
Kilosfrom ussr16:57
not_foundsorry to hear mnet full of nonesense16:57
Kilosyeah ty16:58
Kilosswines16:58
not_foundyou want the final score?16:58
Kilosyes please16:58
not_found38-22 and bulls got 4 tries to 1...16:58
Kilosgood16:59
not_foundonly missed one conversion and had one drop16:59
not_foundso all and all sounds like they did well16:59
Kilosyeah things looking better after a bad start16:59
not_foundstill have little hope for them but at least they winning at Loftus16:59
* not_found will be back later17:00
Kilosk17:00
Kilosif im not back later, have a good night all and sleep tight17:06
charl_ciao not17:06
charl_oh, tab failed17:06
charl_wb Golynx 17:30
Golynxty charl_17:31
Golynxhow could they mess this up lol http://www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/newsweek-satoshi-nakamoto-privacy/#!yZoyl17:33
superflyGolynx: start with Flask. If that's not enough for you, move on to Pyramid.17:35
Golynxsuperfly: thanks, i will try them17:37
Golynxbut just for the fun of it for now. PHP still got alot of the serious market.17:38
Golynxsuperfly: whats wrong with django.17:51
Golynxwb not_found17:51
not_foundthanks :)17:51
Golynxnp17:52
Golynxsuperfly: its ok i found an answer http://blog.stacktrace.ch/post/4917865421417:56
theblazehenAnyone got ideas on how to procrastinate?18:09
superflytheblazehen: icanhazcheesburger.com ?18:55
superflyGolynx: Nice breakdown. I'm a big Pyramid fan, but I've actually used Flask for a few small things recently. It's really nice to start off with a really small framework that still has a lot to offer18:57
Golynxsuperfly: yes, its always good to start small. Just the small amount of features in Flask is a bit of a downer. But pyramid seems like a good all round framework. 19:01
Golynxhi theblazehen19:01
theblazehenhey Golynx 19:01
superflyGolynx: I recommend starting with Flask anyways. Writing web apps in languages other than PHP is very different, so a small app in Flask would be a good way to start.19:15
GolynxI'm only used to python by making pygames and some tkinter apps with it. So the web framework part of it i havn't touched yet. I will start with Flask then soon after move on to Pyramid, since Pyramid seems more like what i want in a web framework. Thanks superfly :)19:22
superflyGolynx: you're welcome19:23
superflyGolynx: you know CareerJunction?19:23
superflyCareerJunction is built using Pylons, the precursor to Pyramid. Having said that, they are fairly different creatures...19:24
Golynxyeah careerjunction.co.za19:25
Golynxah thats good to know19:25
Golynxbut my focus is much more on PHP now. I will do some web apps with python as a hobby for now. 19:28

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