[00:11] <dkfjfjfj> hey
[00:12] <dkfjfjfj> minimec:  i am just going to try gnome
[00:14] <basketball> ikonia:  i am getting a bunch of ubuntu error message pop ups i am just clicking report is that the right thing to do
[00:25] <jdsjhf> !chrome
[00:47] <basketball> ikonia:  in gnome how do i make the launcher like thing icons bigger
[00:53] <basketball> how do i resize the favorite icons in gnome 3.10
[02:45] <brian__> anyone know how to install a theme in gnome shell
[02:45] <brian__> 14.04 ubuntu gnome
[02:46] <Beldar> brian__, You want the theme or the desktop?
[02:46] <brian__> i downloaded and unzipped and copied to ~/themes
[02:46] <brian__> Beldar, what is the dif
[02:46] <brian__> I want all windows (including chrome etc) to have a dark background with white text
[02:46] <Beldar> brian__, One is a theme, one is a whole desktop, not the same.
[02:46] <rww> iirc it's .themes, not themes
[02:47] <brian__> ~/themes doesn't exist... mkdir?
[02:48] <brian__> where do i find 'desktops'
[02:49] <brian__> i'm looking for themes at gnome-look.org
[03:19] <junkanoo> i can't get a gnome shell theme to 'take'
[03:20] <junkanoo> copied to /home/themes, went into tweak -> extensions and turned on user themes then went to appearance and switched to "Glass" theme I downloaded... but it doesn't look any different
[03:20] <junkanoo> help
[03:23] <basketball> ikonia,  when i plug in a vga monitor my laptop goes bizerg and freaks out
[03:28] <basketball> when i plug in a vga monitor my laptop goes bizerg and freaks out
[03:29] <basketball> hey rww
[03:37] <harris> Requested size (2560, 1024) exceeds 3D hardware limit (2048, 2048).You must either rearrange the displays so that they fit within a (2048, 2048) square.
[03:42] <JohnCalvin> Did kim kardashian spread her pussy for kayne west?
[03:42] <JohnCalvin> !ops
[03:42] <rww> JohnCalvin: no thx
[04:00] <basketball> rww,  can you help me here :)
[04:11] <basketball> when i plug in vga monitor my laptop stops responding
[04:15] <basketball> anyone here
[04:24] <basketball> rww,  when i plug in my speakers why does it togle the mute button over and over again
[04:25] <rww> basketball: I believe we talked recently about highlighting ops with support questions out of the blue?
[04:26] <basketball> you are the only one on i didnt do it because you are op i did it becasue you are online
[04:27] <rww> basketball: If someone knows the answer to your question, they'll answer you. I'm not the only one on, just nobody is available that can help.
[07:52] <allstarsnorks2_> Can I update from Daily Build 14.04 to Final 14.04 when it 14.04 comes out April 17?
[07:52] <rww> 07:49:36 < rww> allstarsnorks2: yep, though the usual system update process
[07:52] <rww> :P
[07:52] <rww> !finalrelease
[07:53] <rww> hrm
[07:53] <rww> !finalupgrade
[07:53] <rww> oh, i'm overthinking it
[07:53] <rww> !final
[07:54] <allstarsnorks2_> how about the Beta L/K/X ubuntu?
[07:54] <rww> same
[07:54] <allstarsnorks2_> great
[07:57] <allstarsnorks2_> it's been quite a while since I clicked install on the graphical installer. Nothing's happening!
[09:57] <lordievader> Good morning.
[11:44] <lanoxx> where can i find the code for the indicator applet used in unity?
[12:00] <thomas__> Hello, Anybody out there able to help me with a trusty issue?
[12:06] <bekks> !anyone | thomas__
[12:07] <thomas__> sorry, well I upgraded to beta1 as it was stated to contain kde 4.12.2 however i ended up with 4.12.3 which wouldnt be bad, BUT the db migration of akonadi failed and now I am stuck with no access to mails stored in kontact
[12:07] <minimec> lanoxx: Iguess you can use the source file of indicator-applet-complete... http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=all&section=all&arch=any&keywords=indicator-applet&searchon=names
[12:07] <thomas__> anyone able to tell me how to fix https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331867 or how to downgrade to 4.12.2 ?
[12:13] <lanoxx> minimec, as far as I know the indicator-applet-complete stuff is for the old gnome-panel, or does unity use the same source?
[12:14] <minimec> lanoxx: You may be right. Indeed I have gnome-panel installed, and indicator-applet-complete is installed on my 14.04 system.
[12:16] <lanoxx> minimec, i have the indicator applet code here on my system and being debugging it for a few days
[12:16] <lanoxx> but i want to look at the unity code to see how things are done there
[12:17] <Daekdroom> lanoxx I think you'd have a better luck asking in #ubuntu-unity . It's the channel for Ubuntu's UI development.
[12:17] <minimec> lanoxx: Cool... Because I use the old gnome-panel in combination with e17, and there is some stuff missing in 14.04, like 'sound'...
[12:18] <Daekdroom> Anyway, the indicator stuff for Unity are packages such as indicator-bluetooth, indicator-sound, indicator-printers, -power, -keyboard, -session...
[12:21] <lanoxx> minimec, i suggest you subscribe to the gnome-flashback-list mailing list, there are people who can help you
[12:22] <minimec> lanoxx: I might consider that. THX
[12:22] <lanoxx> minimec, i use metacity + gnome-panel, alberts has ported metacity to gtk+3
[12:33] <basketballllll> Hwllo
[12:34] <basketballllll> Hello
[12:36] <basketballllll> Hey phowyett
[12:39] <lordievader> Hey basketballllll, do you need support with something? It is best to simply ask the questions you might have.
[12:40] <ikonia> I think basketballllll, you've  been asked not to single out individuals for support unless you are already in a dialog with them.
[12:41] <basketballllll> Ikonk he just joined the channel so i said hi
[12:41] <basketballllll> A d iord yes when i olug in a vga monitor my laptop stops responding
[12:51] <basketballllll> When i plug in my mobitor before i log in my keyboard wont type my password
[12:54] <lordievader> basketballllll: On a tty you should be able to login by just typing your login on the kb, I'm not really sure how lightdm handles that without a monitor.
[12:55] <basketballllll> No i have a laptop and i am talking about second monitor
[12:55] <minimec> basketballllll: I am not sure if this is the answer to my question... If you turn of your laptop, then plug the monitor, then boot up the laptop... What happens. Do you get a login screen on the laptop monitor, on the vga monitor, or what?
[12:55] <basketballllll> My bad for not explain ing
[12:56] <basketballllll> i gwt the login screen but i cant type my password it doens rrconize the key
[12:57] <minimec> basketballllll: And where do you get that login screen? on the laptop or on the second monitor?
[12:57] <basketballllll> I can go downstairs and check
[12:59] <lordievader> Might be a focus problem/bug.
[13:00] <basketballllll> Willtou be online in 5 min
[13:01] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:01] <minimec> lordievader: He has an external monitor with a different resolution, I guess, and xrandr cannot expand the desktop. I am just surprised, that he doesn't remember on which screen he gets the login when doing a 'cold boot' with the monitor plugged... ;)
[13:02] <basketballllll> I am pretty sure the external but not sure
[13:02] <basketballllll> And if i plug monitor in after i log in then it works
[13:03] <penguin42> basketballllll: What hardware are you using?  I'd seen similar behaviour on an Nvidia laptop
[13:03] <basketballllll> Hp pavilionv6000
[13:04] <penguin42> do you know anything about it's graphics card?
[13:04] <basketballllll> And a samsung vga mobitor
[13:04] <minimec> basketballllll: So now I doon't understand anything anymore, because bofore you said, that the computer 'stops responding' ?!?
[13:04] <basketballllll> Min i fixed that and now it just doesnt reconize keyboard on login screen
[13:05] <penguin42> basketballllll: you say it doesn't recognise keyboard - does anything else work? e.g. does the mouse move?
[13:05] <basketballllll> Yes mouse moves
[13:06] <penguin42> basketballllll: Does a USB keyboard plugged in work?
[13:06] <basketballllll> Whwn mobitor is not pluged in
[13:06] <basketballllll> Or after i login
[13:06] <penguin42> basketballllll: No that's not what I meant
[13:06] <penguin42> basketballllll: In the situation where the laptop keyboard doesn't work, does a separate USB keyboard work ?
[13:07] <basketballllll> No
[13:07] <bekks> Does your laptop have keyboard leds, and are they blinking?
[13:09] <basketballllll> It has leds yes
[13:09] <bekks> Do they blink...?
[13:10] <basketballllll> Why would they blink
[13:10] <penguin42> a kernel panic would cause them all to blink; but if the mouse still moves it's not panic'd
[13:10] <bekks> Was that a yes or a no?
[13:11] <basketballllll> It does not blink and the login screen is on laptop
[13:12] <basketballllll> Caps lock wilk turn on and off though
[13:12] <basketballllll> Password just wont type
[13:13] <penguin42> ah, if caps lock works then the keyboard is OK
[13:13] <penguin42> basketballllll: does ctrl-alt-f1 get you a text console?
[13:15] <minimec> basketballllll: What if we enabled 'autologin' for your user in the user settings once. That would give us the possibility to see, how xrandr epands the desktop over these two screens, and maybe we could check the display GUI in the settings to see how it is recognized.
[13:15] <basketballllll> Penguin yes
[13:15] <penguin42> basketballllll: Great
[13:16] <penguin42> basketballllll: It sounds then like the greeter or lightdm has died
[13:16] <penguin42> basketballllll: /var/log/lightdm should hold logs showing your errors

[13:17] <basketballllll> Penguin bash var … is a directory
[13:21] <basketballllll> Penguin u here
[13:23] <minimec> basketballllll: Ok. We will have a look @ that log file. First install the software pastebinit... 'sudo apt-get install pastebinit'. Then type the following command: 'sudo nano /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log | pastebinit'. That should give you a link, that you can share with us. It will give us the content of your lightdm log file.
[13:23] <basketballllll> Should i be in gui or terminal thing
[13:23] <minimec> basketballllll: terminal
[13:23] <basketballllll> Terminal in gui
[13:24] <basketballllll> Or the crtl alt f1
[13:24] <minimec> basketballllll: I was wrong with the command: it's 'sudo cat /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log | pastebinit'
[13:25] <minimec> basketballllll: It would be good to have the laptop in that 'frozen' state with the external monitor plugged. So 'ctrl alt F1'
[13:26] <basketballllll> Ok what do i type
[13:27] <minimec> basketballllll: 'sudo apt-get install pastebinit', then 'sudo cat /var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log | pastebinit'
[13:29] <basketballllll> You are trying to send an empty document existing
[13:32] <minimec> basketballllll: Verify that you typed '/var/log/lightdm/lightdm.log' correctly. That file shouldn't be empty.
[13:33] <basketballllll> Is there a space between cat
[13:34] <minimec> basketballllll: Yes.
[13:34] <basketballllll> Ok o wasnt ttping that
[13:35] <basketballllll> Http://paste.ubuntu.com/7061690
[13:37] <minimec> basketballllll: Ok. thanks. Indeed we get an message 'Terminated with signal 15', 'Failed during authentication', 'Session stopped'
[13:38] <minimec> basketballllll: Now penguin42 will probably be better with debugging lightdm than me. You might have to wait until he finished his breakfast.
[13:38] <basketballllll> Would it mattwr if i loged in to the gui and did the alt crtl f1 from there
[13:39] <minimec> basketballllll: I would consider to activate the 'autologin' for user 'harris' and check what that gives us. Go to 'system settings' 'user accounts' for that.
[13:40] <basketballllll> Why
[13:40]  * penguin42 bbbuuuurrrrrpppps
[13:40] <basketballllll> Penguin can you help me debug lightdm
[13:40] <minimec> basketballllll: because we would not have a lightdm login session then...
[13:40] <basketballllll> Please
[13:41] <basketballllll> Min i need a password i take myblaptop to work
[13:41] <penguin42> basketballllll: Can you also pastebin /var/log/lightdm/x-0-greeter.log
[13:42] <minimec> basketballllll: This is just for debugging. You could activate it again afterwards
[13:43] <basketballllll> Ubuntu paste 7061733
[13:45] <basketballllll> Http://paste.ubuntu.com/7061733/
[13:47] <penguin42> hmm, my greeter log is a lot less chatty, but I don't know if that's because I'm on KDE or not; there are certainly some warnings/errors in there - but no signal/crash type thing
[13:49]  * penguin42 is just installing a vm with standard trusty and I'll see what it's greeter log looks like
[13:49] <basketballllll> Boss what do i do
[13:53]  * basketballllll is waiting patiently
[13:58] <basketballllll> Penguin42 i am in the gui waitinf and i keep getting apport windows
[14:00] <thomas__> upgraded to ubuntu 14.04 beta BUT db migration of akonadi failed and now I am stuck with no access to mails stored in kontact https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331867
[14:00] <penguin42> basketballllll: what errors are they giving?
[14:00] <thomas__> ANY Help appreciated
[14:01] <basketballllll> Ill tell you after we fix the login problem
[14:02] <minimec> basketballllll: I remember that I told how to switch from gnome3 to unity yesterday. Are you running on unity now?
[14:02] <bekks> MAybe they tell you something about the reason for your login problems.
[14:02] <basketballllll> No still gnome
[14:02] <basketballllll> And it was about chrome
[14:03] <minimec> basketballllll: penguin42: Could the fact (running gnome3) have an influence on the login behaviour. I think gnome3 would 'prefer' gdm as login manager...
[14:03] <basketballllll> Ok i rebooted my laptop and it still wouldnt let me type so i opened up the crtl alt f1 ready when you are to do something
[14:04] <bekks> gnome uses gdm, not lightdm.
[14:04] <bekks> That would be the reason for an empty lightdm log.
[14:04] <basketballllll> I am using light dm though
[14:05] <basketballllll> How do i switch to gdm
[14:05] <bekks> Why do you want to switch?
[14:05] <minimec> basketballllll: So then maybe 'sudo dpkg-reconfigure gdm' would give you the possibility to switch to gdm as default.
[14:05] <basketballllll> Bekks i installed unoty yesterday so i have both unity and gnome 3 and light dm as default
[14:06] <bekks> basketballllll: And why dont you want to use lightdm?
[14:06] <basketballllll> They kustbsaid that was the problem
[14:08] <penguin42> bekks: The greeter is crashing on him
[14:09] <penguin42> minimec: I don't know, while I'd expect it might break gnome3 after login perhaps, it shouldn't break it before you have a chance to type a password
[14:11] <basketballllll> From the terminal page how do o get to the login screen
[14:11] <minimec> penguin42: That could explain the fact, that he gets a lot of error messages after login...
[14:12] <penguin42> minimec: Yeh
[14:12] <penguin42> basketballllll: When you installed gnome3 did you install some of the unity stuff?
[14:13] <minimec> penguin42: On the other hand... I gave gnome3 a try too and did not have error messages with lightdm, but it broke my unity setup. The 14.04 unity/gnome3 separation is not integrated yet.
[14:13] <basketballllll> Penguin gnome 3 game installed i installed unity
[14:13] <penguin42> minimec: Yeh, I think the greeter uses bits of the unity stuff, so if bits of that were removed it would explain some things
[14:14] <basketballllll> Hey it worked
[14:15] <basketballllll> In 13.10 there was an option for launcher to be on both screens can i do that in gnomd
[14:15] <penguin42> basketballllll: If you're sticking with lightdm then try and install the lightdm-gtk-greeter package, and uninstall the unity-greeter package  - it'll use a simpler greeter
[14:16] <basketballllll> No ill use gdm
[14:16] <penguin42> ok
[14:16] <basketballllll> Should i uninstall anythinf
[14:16] <penguin42> hey if it works don't touch it
[14:16] <basketballllll> Ok you know how up at the top jt says activities
[14:17] <DJones> basketballllll: I get a similar issue typing my password, what I find works is either to turn the onscreen keyboard on and use that to put the first letter of the password in, or to press the escape key before typing the password, so far one or the other works for me
[14:18] <penguin42> DJones: Hang on
[14:18] <basketballllll> Djones how !any monitors do you have
[14:18] <DJones> basketballllll: Only one
[14:18] <penguin42> DJones: Does your caps lock key work at that point, does an external USB keyboard work ?
[14:19] <basketballllll> Is there a way to make login screen show up on both monitors
[14:19] <penguin42> DJones: i.e. is the keyboard itself all happy, the only problem is the greeter?
[14:20] <DJones> penguin42: I've not tried an external keyboard, I'm not sure about caps lock, this laptop doesn't actually have caps lock/number lock lights
[14:21] <penguin42> DJones: OK, it's just there are a few different bugs  1) Some laptop keyboards just don't work at all 2) The whole machine has died 3) X has died  4) The greeter is broken
[14:21] <penguin42> DJones: basketballllll's problem is 4,  I suspect yours is as well but we get too many people saying 'the keyboard is broken' to differentiate between them
[14:22] <DJones> penguin42: I'll test next time, but I suspect its 4, its not 100% of the time, I only get it maybe 25% of the time
[14:22] <basketballllll> 4 what
[14:23] <bekks> "4) The greeter is broken"
[14:23] <basketballllll> Why is gnome getting so slow noe
[14:23] <basketballllll> Now
[14:25] <BluesKaj> penguin42, I've been having graphics issues with 14.04 KDE/Intel gpu, but using xrender and native gives fewer desktop effects, but the graphical artifacts have disappeared, so far.
[14:25] <penguin42> BluesKaj: This one is actually on OpenGL 2.0/Raster (this is my Intel box)
[14:26] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Oh, but has desktop effects disabled :-)
[14:26] <basketballllll> Penguin dobyou lnow why my laptop is now slos
[14:27] <BluesKaj> penguin42, maybe OpenGL 2 and raster will work here, havent tried that setting. I was using 3.1 and raster
[14:29] <basketballllll> !acting
[14:29] <minimec> BluesKaj: With 14.04 I get some 'flickering' sometimes with vmware images. I have that with unity, gnome3, or e17 sessions. I guess it's a xorg problem.
[14:30] <basketballllll> Omfg why is my laptop so slow
[14:31] <penguin42> basketballllll: Spec of your laptop please; CPU/RAM/Graphics card
[14:31] <minimec> BluesKaj: ... on a Intel HD4000
[14:33] <basketballllll> Code to find out
[14:33] <BluesKaj> minimec, same gpu here, but windows on VB seems fine graphically, but i gave it as much gpu memory as possible and almost 3G RAM in the VB settings, but no flickering here
[14:35] <penguin42> BluesKaj: The KDE visual effects does seem to push stuff quite hard
[14:35] <basketballllll> Penguin how do i find out whatbis making my PC slow
[14:36] <penguin42> start by answering my previous question
[14:36] <basketballllll> I cant because when i open activities it closes
[14:37] <BluesKaj> penguin42, seems so, yeah.
[14:40] <minimec> basketballllll: I don't think it's a VM memory issue, as normally I can stop that behaviour by switching to the next desktop (and back). I think it's a 'layer issue' in fullscreen mode. Something I did not see in 13.10.
[14:40] <minimec> BluesKaj: I don't think it's a VM memory issue, as normally I can stop that behaviour by switching to the next desktop (and back). I think it's a 'layer issue' in fullscreen mode. Something I did not see in 13.10.
[14:47] <basketballllll> Penguin ram 1 gb graphics gallium 0.4 on llvmpipe
[14:48] <penguin42> basketballllll: OK, llvmpipe is always going to feel like drawing through treacle - what graphics card have you got?
[14:48] <basketballllll> I just said
[14:49] <penguin42> no you didn't
[14:50] <basketballllll> What xommand do i run in terminal
[14:50] <BluesKaj> basketballllll, lspci | grep VGA
[14:51] <basketballllll> Intel mobile 945 gm/ gms,943/940gm
[14:52] <basketballllll> Express intergrated graphics controler rev 03
[14:53] <penguin42> hmm, I hadn't expected a 945 to use gallium
[14:53] <penguin42> sorry, hadn't expected it to use llvmpipe
[14:57] <basketball> ffffdsdf
[14:58] <penguin42> basketball: if it's using llvmpipe something odd is happening I think
[14:59] <basketball> penguin42,  what do  do to fix it
[14:59] <penguin42> basketball: dpkg -l | grep intel
[15:00] <basketballlllll> ok
[15:00] <basketballlllll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7062110/
[15:01] <penguin42> ok, that's good
[15:01] <penguin42> can you pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[15:02] <basketballlllll> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7062120/
[15:05] <penguin42> I don't see why that's using llvmpipe
[15:05] <basketballlllll> what is llvmpipe
[15:06] <penguin42> basketballlllll: It's a software 3d renderer from when the hardware can't do it
[15:06] <penguin42> basketballlllll: But your X logs show that it's got the driver, and your dpkg -l   show you've got the packages
[15:08] <basketballlllll> penguin42:  what do we do
[15:10] <penguin42> not sure
[15:10] <basketballlllll> .....
[15:10] <basketballlllll> what does that mean
[15:11] <basketballlllll> bekks: or minimec do you know
[15:12] <minimec> basketballlllll: Do I know what?
[15:12] <basketballlllll> penguin42:  i dont know how to describe this
[15:14] <thomas__> would urgently need help on this big: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331867
[15:15] <penguin42> I'd try #kde for that
[15:15] <bekks> thomas__: According to the bug report, there is no fix. did you submit to the bugreport already?
[15:15] <basketballlllll> penguin42:  can you tell minimec  what we were trying to fix
[15:15] <penguin42> minimec: can read scrollback
[15:15] <thomas__> well just that i am affected too
[15:16] <thomas__> all the data is already there
[15:16] <basketballlllll> minimec: please read scrollback
[15:16] <thomas__> bekks: is tehre any way to downgrade to kde 4.12.2 on trusty?
[15:16] <penguin42> thomas__: It sounds like they changed the database layout at some point
[15:16] <thomas__> I KNOW ;)
[15:16] <thomas__> i have onl ytwo  options:
[15:16] <thomas__> 1) downgrade to kde 4.12.2
[15:17] <thomas__> 2) get the database migrated manually
[15:17] <thomas__> I am not afraid of any of those two but woul dneed a littl ehelping hand on them
[15:17] <penguin42> thomas__: I think a 3rd would be to install a VM with an older kde
[15:17] <thomas__> akonadi group is totally silent
[15:18] <thomas__> hmmm not an option its my productive linux box (and yes i know i shouldnt have updated to beta1, but i upgraded on three test machines before and all worked well there)
[15:18] <penguin42> thomas__: Oh yeh, but it might let you at least get to your mail while you figure it out
[15:18] <minimec> penguin42: basketballlllll: Ok... I took the time... ;) My guess is, that your dual screen setup is 'bigger' than the maximal resolution of your Intel 945. Therefore it changes to software rendering (llvmpipe). If my guess is true, you should not have that problem using only one screen.
[15:19] <bekks> thomas__: And why is "its my productive linux box" a reason for "a vm is not an option"?
[15:19] <thomas__> didnt expect 4.12.3 to be installed when it says 4.12.2 in the pages
[15:19] <penguin42> minimec: Yeh I think that's possible; I seem to remember there's a maximum horizontal width on Intel GPUs
[15:19] <thomas__> hmm to run linux just to have on it a vm that runs linux ...
[15:19] <thomas__> any way of downgrading to 4.12.2?
[15:19] <penguin42> thomas__: I don't think you can downgrade the KDE
[15:19] <penguin42> thomas__: There might be a way to backup the mails and reimport them
[15:19] <basketballlllll> minimec:  i want to use both screens though
[15:20] <penguin42> basketballlllll: Test the theory though - does it stop using llvmpipe if you switch down to one monitor (and reboot)
[15:20] <thomas__> akonadiserver is dying on startup so accessing the data will be troublesome
[15:20] <bekks> thomas__: Uninstall all KDE packages and reinstall the version you want. I suspect you have a backup from before upgrading.
[15:20] <thomas__> the data is fine
[15:20] <thomas__> its just that i dunno how to install 4.12.2 on trusty
[15:20] <penguin42> thomas__: Right, but if you can create a VM with the older KDE, do an export from that, then import it
[15:20] <thomas__> are there any repso for kde 4.12.2?
[15:21] <thomas__> penguin42: hmm jepp seems to be an option
[15:21] <thomas__> but its about 6-7 GB of pim data
[15:21] <thomas__> so i am a little bit shy on this :)
[15:22] <bekks> thomas__: Then why did you upgrade? :P
[15:22] <thomas__> :) i tried it on three test machines before and there all worked well
[15:23] <penguin42> thomas__: Except the one with your mail :-)
[15:23] <thomas__> OF COURSE ;)
[15:23] <penguin42> thomas__: Anyway, if you can get your VM running at least you can get yourself working while you give the akonadi guys a chance to reply, even if you don't do hte import trick
[15:23] <thomas__> does anyone have a contact to any akonadi dev?
[15:24] <penguin42> other than reporting a bug where mine died....
[15:24] <penguin42> you know, the menus in window title bars work nicely
[15:25] <basketballllllll> ok i rebooted how do i test
[15:25] <basketballllllll> .
[15:25] <penguin42> basketballllllll: Does it still say llvmpipe?
[15:26] <basketballllllll> graphics Intel® 945GM x86/MMX/SSE2
[15:27] <penguin42> ah there you go - that's what you want
[15:27] <thomas__> @penguin42: Thanx for your support
[15:27] <basketballllllll> but i need both screens
[15:27] <penguin42> basketballllllll: OK, I know this suggestion is going to sound a bit weird....but
[15:28] <penguin42> basketballllllll: boot with your other monitor plugged in, go into the display configuration and put it vertically underneath the other monitor rather than to the side, try and reboot and see what it says
[15:28] <basketballllllll> ............
[15:28] <basketballllllll> ok but i cant keep it like that
[15:29] <Daekdroom> penguin42, basketballllllll have you both ever considered his IGP might not support the resolution necessary for having both monitors?
[15:29] <minimec> penguin42: basketballllllll: Maximum resolution of the i945 (intel i950 series) is '2048x1536' according to this... http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/
[15:29] <penguin42> minimec: Yeh
[15:29] <Daekdroom> That ^
[15:29] <penguin42> basketballllllll: I ran them on my old laptop above each other like that for a while
[15:30] <penguin42> basketballllllll: Other than vertical stacking (which might work depending on your sizes) is to use another desktop rather than gnome3 that doesn't need so much GL
[15:31] <Daekdroom> He should be fine using metacity - without - compositing.
[15:31] <penguin42> nod
[15:31] <Daekdroom> The limit he's facing is actually tied to maximum texture size, I think.
[15:31] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Can you do that on Gnome3?
[15:31] <basketballllllll> would unity work
[15:32] <Daekdroom> Unity wouldn't work.
[15:32] <penguin42> unity does work with llvmpipe - it's still not going to feel great, although it's not as bad as it used to be
[15:32] <Daekdroom> GNOME 3 can't use metacity. GNOME Flashback can, though.
[15:32] <penguin42> Daekdroom: It works in a VM with llvmpipe
[15:32] <Daekdroom> penguin42, but it wouldn't use his IGP
[15:33] <penguin42> basketballllllll: You could install mate-desktop (which is in Trusty) - will give you a good old Gnome2 desktop - nice and fast on old hardware
[15:33] <penguin42> basketballllllll: Or KDE in xrender mode
[15:35] <Daekdroom> Unity in llvmpipe works fine on my Phenom II X4 820.
[15:35] <Daekdroom> These days I was using it and only noticed it when I tried to launch a game. There are subtle differences such as not as many transparencies, though.
[15:36] <penguin42> Daekdroom: Yeh it's ok in my vm now, it used to be awful though
[15:36] <basketballllll> My laptop is rebooting what can i install that
[15:37] <basketballllll> Looks like gnome and unity
[15:41] <basketballllllll> penguin42:   i am back
[15:42] <basketballllllll> what can i install
[15:42] <penguin42> mate, kde, xvwm
[15:42] <basketballllllll> which one looks nicest
[15:43] <pietro10> ok, is THIS documented?
[15:43] <pietro10> er, known?
[15:43] <penguin42> ah that's up to you; KDE looks nice IMHO and is very configurable
[15:43] <penguin42> pietro10: THIS?
[15:43] <pietro10> $ VARIABLE= -L /usr(tab)
[15:43] <pietro10> complete: usage: complete [-abcdefgjksuv] [-pr] [-DE] [-o option] [-A action] [-G globpat] [-W wordlist]  [-F function] [-C command] [-X filterpat] [-P prefix] [-S suffix] [name ...]
[15:43] <pietro10> er before that: bash: complete: -L: invalid option
[15:43] <basketballllllll> penguin ok how do i uninstall unity
[15:43] <pietro10> it seems a recent update has completely broken tab complete
[15:43] <pietro10> a few days ago I was asking about a smaller problem
[15:43] <penguin42> pietro10: Tab complete seems OK here
[15:44] <pietro10> huh.
[15:44] <pietro10> then I'll need to investigate
[15:44] <penguin42> pietro10: Got a specific case?
[15:45] <pietro10> another one
[15:45] <pietro10> if I start with ~/ I can only complete directory names, not files
[15:45] <basketballllllll> minimec:  how do i unistall the unity we installed yesterday
[15:45] <bekks> apt-get purge
[15:46] <basketballllllll> apt-get purge what
[15:46] <pietro10> there was one more weird situatio nbut I forget what it is
[15:47] <minimec> basketballllllll: you don't really need to. It's just an optioon for your login screen. If you want to remove that option you just 'sudo apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop'
[15:47] <Daekdroom> minimec, basketballllll actually ubuntu-desktop is a good package to have installed in case of updates.
[15:48] <Daekdroom> You might mean 'ubuntu-session'
[15:48] <minimec> Daekdroom: basketballllllll: I agree
[15:48] <basketballllllll> will unity and gnome ever work with my monitors
[15:48] <basketballllllll> and how dp o install kde
[15:48] <Daekdroom> (heh, that is a hard-dependency of ubuntu-desktop; either way, it's ubuntu-session the package that places the Unity session in the login manager)
[15:49] <Daekdroom> basketballllll, GNOME Flashback might work with your monitors.
[15:49] <Daekdroom> GNOME 3 and Unity won't, unless you use llvmpipe, which might be slow.
[15:49] <basketballllllll> which looks best mate, kde, xvwm
[15:49] <basketballllllll> penguin42:  said kde
[15:57] <penguin42> basketballllll: KDE imho looks nice and lets you run with good cards or slow cards
[16:00] <basketballllllll> penguin42:  1 minute in here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dohhz91OTPY  he said kde is the slowest
[16:01] <penguin42> basketballllll: I don't care what he said
[16:01] <basketballllllll> is it ture
[16:02] <basketballllllll> penguin42: ^^
[16:02] <bekks> basketballllllll: We dont care about youtube videos.
[16:02] <penguin42> basketballllll: You asked for our advice, I gave it - if you don't like our advice, feel free to disregard it
[16:02] <bekks> Install the desktop you like.
[16:02] <basketballllllll> is it slow
[16:02] <HEROnymous> no, kde is the second fastest by some completely meaningless subjective standard that can never be measured or proven in any way.
[16:03] <HEROnymous> but in all seriousness, I've never had performance issues because of a window manager.
[16:05] <penguin42> HEROnymous: KDE will use every bit of GL if you configure it too, and will be all nice and fancy - so it can be slow; but it's also got loads of settings so you can make it pretty basic
[16:08] <HEROnymous> eh, I was running with pretty much max settings for quite some time on a geforce 210, which is a pretty amazingly powerless gpu.  ended up going to a geforce 650 for steam games though now that we can actually play real games ;)
[16:08] <basketballllllll> thank you for your opinions but kde looks too much like windows yuck
[16:09] <HEROnymous> kde looks how you want it to look
[16:10] <HEROnymous> there's no reason not to just try stuff until you find what you like though.  just use gdm or kdm and there'll be a selector at login time for which window manager you want to use.
[16:16] <basketballllllll> HEROnymous:  penguin42  minimec  and bekks  how does installing kde help with the monitors
[16:17] <bekks> basketballllllll: It was your idea to install kde.
[16:17] <bekks> We dont care about the desktop you are using.
[16:17] <basketballllllll> no penguin42  and minimec  said it would help with my monitor
[16:17] <basketballllllll> and graphics card
[16:18] <bekks> They did not say that.
[16:18] <basketballllllll> yes they did
[16:18] <thomas__> kindergardden?
[16:18] <minimec> basketballllllll: I never used KDE. So that's wasn't me... ;) I am using e17 for all my dual screen setups. But e17 has some 'learning curve'...
[16:19] <BluesKaj> bekks, speak for yourself, I do care what ppl run especially when they need help, but in this case your frustration with this problem is understandable :)
[16:20] <penguin42> minimec: 'e' used to be the example for slow window managers - but that was 20 years ago
[16:20] <bekks> BluesKaj: Well, he asked about a good choice of desktop environment earlier - in terms of "how fast is it", etc. - and thats pretty uninteresting for the most of us, since "how fast is is" does not solve problems at all.
[16:20] <bekks> BluesKaj: ;)
[16:20] <basketballllllll> whatever ill leave you guys alone
[16:20] <BluesKaj> bekks, no kidding :)
[16:20] <basketballllllll>    /part #ubuntu+1
[16:21] <basketballllllll>   /part #ubuntu+1
[16:21] <penguin42> bekks: Well I want 'not annoyingly slow'
[16:21] <basketballllllll> part dumb thing
[16:22] <BluesKaj> basketballllllll, recommend you try several desktops, asking how fast they are depends on your hardware etc, so do some research before asking unaswerable questions
[16:22] <minimec> penguin42: Well.. I use it for about maybe 8 years, and have never changed my setup since (only minor changes). e17 is treating my screens as totally independent desktops. That is so cool... ;)
[16:22] <HEROnymous> penguin42, I miss afterstep.  :(
[16:24] <basketballllll> Blues after i installed kde why is my bootloader saying i have kubuntu installed not ubuntu
[16:24] <bekks> 4because you install kubuntu-desktop
[16:25] <basketballllll> So i cant get support in #ubuntu now i have to go to #kubuntu
[16:26] <bekks> After April, you get support in #ubuntu as well.
[16:26] <bekks> Until then, you et support in here, when using 14.04
[16:26] <bekks> *get
[16:26] <basketballllll> No i have kububtu now
[16:26] <bekks> And the version is 14.04
[16:26] <bekks> So you get support in here, before the official release of 14.04
[16:26] <HEROnymous> eh, my splash screen says kubuntu as well, but I always install regular ubuntu and then put kde on it after the fact, so that splash screen is part of a pkg somewhere.
[16:27] <penguin42> don't worry about the K
[16:27] <BluesKaj> basketballllll, kubuntu is kde installed on ubuntu core
[16:28] <basketballllll> Why does it say my battery is broken
[16:29] <HEROnymous> maybe your battery is broken.
[16:29] <BluesKaj> hehe
[16:30] <basketballllll> But it isnt
[16:30] <bekks> How do you know?
[16:30] <basketballllll> It works in windows and gnome
[16:31] <bekks> Just because Windows does not tell you it is broken? :)
[16:32] <penguin42> it's probably just a screwup in the sensing somewhere
[16:42] <basketballllllll> it installed
[16:57] <basketballllll> Shoot what was the code to install kde from terminal
[16:58] <basketballllll> Never mind
[17:07] <basketballllll> How do i install linux mint
[17:08] <k1l> !mint | basketballllll
[17:08] <pietro10> right
[17:09] <pietro10> linux mint is not a piece of software, but rather another distribution
[17:09] <basketballllll> If i install linux mint will my graphics card support two monitors
[17:09] <k1l> basketballllll: best is to ask the mint support. they know best about their software.
[17:10] <pietro10> I think you're very confused as to what linux mint is
[17:10] <pietro10> linux mint is another linux distribution, like ubuntu, and is based oin ubuntu
[17:10] <pietro10> I don't think the hardware support differs
[17:10] <pietro10> a better question is "how do I install the proprietary drivers needed ot make my graphics card work on Linux?"
[17:10] <pietro10> and for ubuntu that is run the alternative drivers program
[17:10] <k1l> pietro10: they use other kernels and different drivers. so that can be other support than ubuntu
[17:11] <pietro10> k1l: ok
[17:11] <pietro10> basketballllll: you're on command line; the command is either jockey-gtk or jockey-kde or jockey-cli if all else fails
[17:11] <k1l> but just use mint because i dont know how to install the prop. driver, is not the right solution. yes
[17:12] <pietro10> (k1l: I haven't noticed any odd hardware differneces when I used mint; but frankly I'm so glad I'm not using mint anymore =p )
[17:15] <penguin42> basketballllll: No, mint won't help - it's a hardware limitation of your graphics chip
[17:16] <penguin42> basketballllll: It can't do GL when there are more than 2048 pixels horizontally - we had this discussion about 3 hours ago
[17:16] <pietro10> oh
[17:16] <pietro10> welp
[17:16] <basketballllll> So do i need a new graphics card
[17:16] <penguin42> basketballllll: You need to start reading what people tell you
[17:23] <basketballllll> Why is all of this even happening
[17:24] <ikonia> basketballllll: honeslty - most of your problems are down to your lack of experience / knowledge and using an unstable product coupled with that
[17:24] <ikonia> that's the truth
[17:25] <penguin42> ikonia: It would have helped if something somewhere had given the reason for disabling GL
[17:26] <penguin42> ikonia: The knowledge of the Intel only doing 2k wide GL is pretty obscure, nothing at all warned him
[17:27] <basketballllll> Should I go back to 13.10
[17:27] <penguin42> no, won't help
[17:27] <ikonia> penguin42: I didn't know about it until I saw it your first mention of it earlier
[17:27] <Daekdroom> It won't solve your problem.
[17:28] <penguin42> ikonia: Exactly, I'd hit it years ago - but I think it was minimec who 1st suggested it in this case; but hth is a normal user supposed to know why their machine feels like it's working through treacle
[17:28] <basketballllll> Now it wont even boot it is stuck on the foot with 3 dots
[17:29] <ikonia> penguin42: that specific issue is not the norm, for sure, but the 2000+ lines of problems basketballllll is having / other issues are just lack of experience
[17:29] <penguin42> ikonia: Yeh
[17:30] <minimec> penguin42: Well when you started to mention the llvm driver for an intel card... That got me thinking...
[17:30] <penguin42> nod
[17:30] <basketballllll> Sorry that i am just starting to learn
[17:31] <penguin42> minimec: For some time I got used to moving the arrow down when I wanted to move to the screen across - it's a bit weird :-)
[17:31] <pietro10> there's nothing wrong with starting to learn; just listen and you will
[17:31] <penguin42> minimec: Back years ago it wouldn't even run the Intel driver with 2 monitors across
[17:31] <basketballllll> Last question is there a way to faxtory reset
[17:33] <minimec> penguin42: Yeah intel was crappy, before they started the i3/5/7 series CPU, at least for dual screen.
[17:33] <minimec> penguin42: I mean the GPU part of it...
[17:37] <basketballllll> My laptop is stuck on the foot with the 3 dots and i can only login with crl alt f1
[17:45] <basketballllll> I am rrinstalling 13.10
[17:46] <basketballllll> My graphic card worked there
[18:38] <subz3r0> hi
[18:38] <subz3r0> did anyone of you test vidalia with 14.04?
[18:39]  * penguin42 never heard of it
[18:39] <subz3r0> ahh hi penguin42. you again :)
[18:39] <subz3r0> got it fixed with the encryption issue... used the live cd and a terminal to do it
[18:39] <subz3r0> there was no other way around sadly...
[18:40] <penguin42> yeh that's a pain
[18:40] <subz3r0> vidalia is a frontend for tor
[18:40] <subz3r0> just a gui where you can control tor with it
[18:41] <subz3r0> "GConf-WARNING **: Client failed to connect to the D-BUS daemon:"
[18:41] <subz3r0> "An AppArmor policy prevents this sender from sending this message to this recipient,...."
[18:41] <subz3r0> seems like apparmor doesnt like it anymore
[18:42] <subz3r0> penguin42: youre maybe using pidgin? seems like i found another bug
[18:42] <penguin42> oh oh, don't break my pidgin
[18:42] <subz3r0> just checked with ps x for the vidalia pid to kill it and found this
[18:43] <subz3r0> 3215 ?        Z      0:00 [pidgin] <defunct>
[18:43] <subz3r0> three times
[18:43] <subz3r0> never happend with 12.04
[18:43] <penguin42> hmm, yes I have 4 defunct pidgins
[18:44] <penguin42> that's not a big issue; something not cleaning up
[18:44] <subz3r0> yeah i know. but it should not happen
[18:44] <subz3r0> can you write a ticket at bugtracker?
[18:45] <penguin42> yes, you can
[18:45] <subz3r0> nope i can't ;)
[18:45] <subz3r0> lost my login :P
[18:45] <subz3r0> but well... since i found some other bugs... time to register again it seems
[18:46] <penguin42> subz3r0: You should be able to ask it to send me your password
[18:46] <subz3r0> would be nice if you can fill the ticket... i would reply then to confirm that issue
[18:46] <subz3r0> send you my passwort? why should i? :P
[18:46] <penguin42> sorry, send you a new password
[18:46] <subz3r0> nvm... understood what you said ;)
[18:46] <subz3r0> hehe
[18:46] <subz3r0> that wont work. since i dont have this email anymore
[18:47] <penguin42> oh well, yeh
[18:58] <subz3r0> and another bug it seems :>
[18:58] <subz3r0> cant change the transparency of a terminal like in 12.04 before
[19:14] <jklfjkfjfdjdkdf> penguin42:  bekks  and minimec  i am soory for being a pain this morning
[19:18] <adamcunnington> Hi, will the update from 12.04 to 14.04 be relatively simple? Will I be able to do that in terminal?
[19:19] <bekks> adamcunnington: Yes. Yes.
[19:19] <adamcunnington> bekks: great cheers
[19:22] <subz3r0> would be: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[19:22] <subz3r0> :)
[19:25] <basketball> how do i install the ubuntu toyuch emulator
[19:28] <bekks> adamcunnington: apt-get will not update one release to another. Once 14.04 is released, you have to use do-release-upgrade
[19:29] <basketball> bekks:  do you know how to install the ubuntu touch emulator
[19:29] <basketball> do you have a link
[19:29] <bekks> basketball: NO.
[19:29] <bekks> "No." even.
[19:29] <basketball> OK THANK YOU
[19:29] <bekks> basketball: Yeah, blame it on my shift key :)
[19:31] <basketball> whops pressed the caps lock button
[19:31] <adamcunnington> bekks: it's as simple as 1 command?! mind blown.
[19:31] <bekks> adamcunnington: Yeah.
[19:31] <adamcunnington> that's actually awesome
[19:31] <basketball> bekks:  what is adamcunnington  trying to do
[19:32] <adamcunnington> i was expecting to do a reinstall but then i caught wind that the transition from .04 to .04 is simples and now i'm like BOOOM!
[19:32] <bekks> basketball: How about just asking him?
[19:32] <basketball> adamcunnington:  what is bekks  helping you with
[19:32] <adamcunnington> basketball: lol nosiest question ever ;)
[19:32] <bekks> adamcunnington: The upgrade from one LTS release to the next is that easy. 11.04 to 13.04 would not have worked like that.
[19:32] <adamcunnington> basketball: nothing per se, was just asking about upgrade to 14.04 from 12.04 and if it would be simple - but got my answers :)
[19:33] <adamcunnington> bekks: presumably just because the developers put time in making that work for LTS versions? or is it built in from the ground upward with those versions?
[19:34] <adamcunnington> bekks: and it will retain all apps, including things as core as like desktop environment?
[19:34] <bekks> adamcunnington: No. Release updates from LTS to LTS are supported. Leaving out one or more releases for upgrading "normal" versions is not supported.
[19:34] <adamcunnington> bekks: yea, i know that - was more talking about the means in which that was possible
[19:35] <basketball> adamcunnington:  if you are just upgrading you will keep apps if you fresh install you will need to back up
[19:36] <adamcunnington> basketball: is there much benefits from a fresh install over upgrading?
[19:36] <adamcunnington> many benefits* sorry
[19:36] <bekks> adamcunnington: Depends on your personal setup.
[19:37] <basketball> adamcunnington:  i always fresh install as over the 6 months that i have the os i save a bunch of usless crap
[19:37] <basketball> i keep all of my important stuff in dropbox
[19:39] <adamcunnington> basketball: yea, i've not got any crap on this current install
[19:40] <basketball> then upgrade should be fine
[19:52] <basketball> hey bekks  are you running daily or beta
[19:53] <bekks> basketball: I am running 12.04 and 14.04
[19:53] <basketball> 14.04 beta or daily
[19:53] <bekks> Doesnt matter.
[19:53] <basketball> yes
[19:53] <basketball> which one
[19:54] <bekks> Because after one single update you are on "daily".
[19:54] <bekks> Because there are updates - daily.
[19:54] <bekks> You are on daily always, when using updates.
[19:54] <basketball> so downloading beta 1 and daily are the same thing
[19:54] <bekks> No.
[19:54] <bekks> < bekks> Because after one single update you are on "daily".
[19:55] <basketball> after updating they are the same
[19:56] <bekks> Thats what I told you.
[19:56] <basketball> then why do they make them different downloads
[19:57] <bekks> Because there is the requirement of "non-daily-releases".
[19:57] <basketball> requirementt?
[19:57] <bekks> Requirement. Yes.
[19:57] <lordievader> basketball: The daily images are respun everyday, while the beta's and the alpha's are respun until their release.
[19:58] <bekks> Ubuntu is not a rolling release distro, so there is the requirement of specific releases besides "daily".
[19:58] <basketball> oh thank you
[19:58] <basketball> but who makes them do it
[19:58] <basketball> like what happens if they dont
[19:59] <bekks> "make them do it" - Make whom do what?
[20:00] <penguin42> basketball: There is a release team
[20:00] <penguin42> basketball: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[20:46] <basketball> Beldar:  or penguin42  is pipelight supported nin 14.04
[20:47] <subz3r0> basketball: http://linuxg.net/ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr-may-come-with-pipelight-support/
[20:49] <basketball> how do i make numlockx always start using gnome 3 and gdm
[20:50] <subz3r0> you mean at the login page?
[20:50] <basketball> yes
[20:51] <subz3r0> does 14.04 use gdm again?
[20:51] <subz3r0> thought it will be light dm again?
[20:54] <Daekdroom> subz3r0, it's lightdm.
[20:54] <Daekdroom> But gdm is still installable, as it was since the lightdm transition.
[20:54] <subz3r0> Daekdroom: thanks, that was my thought too
[20:55] <Daekdroom> *it has been
[20:55] <subz3r0> basketball: you could try to install "numlockx"
[20:55] <subz3r0> or edit: /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[20:55] <subz3r0> and change line to: greeter-setup-script=/usr/bin/numlockx on
[20:55] <subz3r0> ofc make backups before
[20:56] <subz3r0> let me know please if it worked
[20:57] <basketball> that file is blank because i dont use lightdm i use gdm
[20:58] <subz3r0> for gdm: /etc/gdm/Init/Default
[20:58] <subz3r0> which numlockx >/dev/null && numlockx on
[20:58] <subz3r0> under the first line
[20:58] <subz3r0> source: ubuntuusers wiki :>
[20:59] <basketball> ok what do i do in that dile
[20:59] <basketball> file
[21:00] <subz3r0> add the line i gave you under the first line
[21:00] <basketball> do i type the which
[21:01] <subz3r0> yes
[21:03] <subz3r0> btw. does anyone know what to search for when i want to change this grey screen where i have to enter my password?
[21:04] <subz3r0> i mean the screen which will show up when you locked the screen and push it backup with the mouse
[21:12] <basketball> how do i configure the size of favorite icons in gnome 3
[21:12] <basketball> bekks:  there^^
[21:32] <basketball> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/supybot/+bug/1290124
[22:58] <nathanesau1> i installed ubuntu 14.04 in a VM on windows , but can't view the whole desktop. any ideas how to adjust the resolution?
[23:33] <nathanesau1> im trying to install ubuntu 14.04. however, it doesn't give me the option to install alongside windows like in previous distros. it says it will replace windows 8. suggestions?
[23:35] <bblindy> Hi nathanesau1, which version are you downloading? Gnome? Unity? Server?
[23:36] <nathanesau1> ubuntu -gnome
[23:36] <nathanesau1> im currently trying out the live cd.
[23:37] <bblindy> Did you boot into the CD, or are you attempting the install through windows?
[23:38] <nathanesau1> i booted into cd.
[23:38] <bblindy> I wonder if it'll give you the same option of you attempt via windows.
[23:38] <bblindy> *if you
[23:40] <Beldar> nathanesau1, This a W8 and uefi/gpt?
[23:40] <nathanesau1> windows 8. not uefi though. i booted live cd in SATA mode
[23:41] <Beldar> nathanesau1, You installed this W8 and you know it's a msdos partition table?
[23:42] <nathanesau1> yes.
[23:42] <nathanesau1> if i shrink the partition with gparted, and then make another partition for ubuntu, can i install on the new partition
[23:42] <nathanesau1> and then use grub to choose which os to boot to
[23:43] <Beldar> nathanesau1, I would resize with the W8 partitioner, leaving a unallocated for ubuntu, be sure to reboot the windows after resizing.
[23:44] <Beldar> I assume you are aware of msdos tables and types and amounts of partitions
[23:45] <nathanesau1> ok should i just leave the space unallocated? and then 14.04 installation which create a NTFS or whatever partition out of the free space?
[23:45] <nathanesau1> *installation will create
[23:45] <Beldar> nathanesau1, So why are you using a development?
[23:45] <nathanesau1> i wanted to try out gnome
[23:46] <nathanesau1> and apparently you can install the development version and then just keep updating it
[23:46] <Beldar> nathanesau1, This has not been released, is all, not a good start for trying out is all.
[23:46] <nathanesau1> ok ill wait until april to install then
[23:47] <Beldar> nathanesau1, You could install 13.10, or 12.04 both will upgrade to 14.04.
[23:47] <nathanesau1> but those releases don't support gnome 3?
[23:47] <Beldar> nathanesau1, They do.
[23:47] <nathanesau1> ok thanks for the help
[23:48] <Beldar> They are using gnome 3