[01:50] <Flannel> AlanBell: My complaint about spending time "fixing" factoids that don't need fixing, is that you're trying to solve a social problem (overuse of factoids where a conversation should exist) with a technical solution.  Plus, it's a waste of time to review those, because theyre not broken (there are plenty that could be updated because theyre out of date, the technical ones).
[01:51] <Flannel> My theory is that we focused on the first "actionable" item that was presented, because we felt that something needed to be *done* to make progress, and it's become a focal point when it should be a footnote.
[01:53] <Flannel> Back to the former statement: regardless of whether the factoid exists or is "fixed" to be less useful, you *still* need to go through the soical effort of getting people to talk more for the first/second/third time the user needs to be told/reminded, and then don't have an easy tool for the 4th/5th/etc time, when they know better, just need a nudge.
[01:53] <Flannel> So, you do a lot of work on the "social" factoids, for a net gain of zero.
[01:54] <Flannel> I think it's a waste of time, but I won't be wasting my time on it; so all I can say is go ahead and waste your own if that's what you think ought to be the first step.
[01:56] <Flannel> And that's just within the "factoid overuse" subissue of the "people behave like faceless machines" topic, whether it is/isn't one of the top few issues to tackle within the larger ecosystem I'm not going to even touch on at the moment.
[03:56] <phunyguy> This man is making sense.
[06:45] <MooDoo> morning all
[08:01] <AlanBell> Flannel: I don't know how to start a conversation about them any other way
[08:01] <AlanBell> I know how to start a "telling people what to do"
[08:01] <AlanBell> but a conversation is a bit different
[08:02] <AlanBell> if I just wanted them fixed, then I would go ahead and fix them
[09:32] <Tm_T> I will write few points about the discussions that has taken place here in past few days while I'm reading the logs, please bear with me (:
[09:32] <MooDoo> Tm_T: enjoy the logs :)
[09:33] <Tm_T> we IRCC do sit in -ops and do participate in the action when needed, although it is recommended that we try stand back. atleast I personally do try catalyst when I can
[09:34] <Tm_T> about "fixing our team": I have a feeling that we are using too much time on trying to heal or repair instead of focusing on things that do help healing or repairing
[09:34] <Tm_T> with this I mean we should try work as a team to do things we can do _now_ instead of trying to form a team (from thin air?) that could do something bigger
[09:35] <Tm_T> there's no short cut, let's not try search it anymore
[09:38] <Tm_T> about ops rotation: it's artificial "fix" to something that cannot be forced externally, instead I think we should focus on communication and sharing the understading that it is perfectly ok to step aside for a week or 6
[09:38] <Tm_T> I know I do that all the time, thanks to other business I have to deal with (:
[13:07] <phunyguy> Hi
[13:32] <MooDoo> hi phunyguy
[13:59] <cprofitt> Flannel: some times easy tasks - like cleaning up factoids - can help a team that is having communication issues find common ground and work as a team. The fixing of factoids in and of itself will not be a solution to the large issue, but it can be a means to an end by getting the team to discuss a low stress issue
[19:02] <basketball> what does being op entail
[19:03] <genii> Headaches
[19:05] <basketball> hello chu
[19:05] <AlanBell> generally being moderately active in the relevant channel and keeping the conversations constructive and on topic
[19:05] <basketball> ok AlanBell  thank you i hope tp join the team
[19:06] <AlanBell> and to help do that, ops can remove people who are spamming or disruptive
[19:06] <basketball> ok
[19:06] <AlanBell> best thing to do is just hang out and help people in channels that are interesting to you
[19:06] <Unit193> Also, not crossposting every chance you get will help.
[19:07] <phunyguy> ^
[19:07] <basketball> ok i am a new user now
[19:07] <basketball> i will help and not crostpost
[19:08] <IdleOne> you've been a new user for almost a year
[19:08] <IdleOne> time to get off that bus
[19:08] <phunyguy> phew, I survived.
[19:08] <basketball> IdleOne:  what do you mean
[19:08] <phunyguy> ;)
[19:09] <basketball> i uploaded  my fingerprint to the data base when do i find out that i can sign code of conduct
[19:10] <phunyguy> basketball: you really should read the wiki pages
[19:11] <AlanBell> there is a video too
[19:11] <AlanBell> !coc
[19:11] <AlanBell> the ogv link is a video that shows it in some detail I think
[19:18] <basketball> thanks AlanBell
[19:20] <basketball> AlanBell:  this website should be updated floodbots are retired in Hawaii https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines
[19:21] <AlanBell> true enough, I removed some of the floodbot related stuff on the wiki, but that needs an update too
[19:22] <rww> The whole wiki needs an update, I keep not getting around to it.
[19:25] <basketball> can i do it?
[19:25] <rww> !itsawiki
[19:27] <AlanBell> um, I already did
[19:27] <AlanBell> but if I hadn't done, then you could have done
[19:28] <AlanBell> but feel free to flick about for other pages mentioning the floodbots and revise accordingly
[19:29] <basketball> AlanBell:  i went to go log in there and the authenticate is stuck loading
[19:30] <basketball> Internal Server Error
[19:31]  * IdleOne reboots all the servers
[19:31] <Unit193> That's normal when editing the wiki.
[19:31] <rww> you failed your computer intimidation check
[19:32] <AlanBell> it is rather slow to authenticate
[19:32] <AlanBell> but it worked for me, just tried again in a clean browser session
[19:34] <basketball> ok it worked
[19:36] <basketball> is Floodbotit1 flood bot
[19:51] <MooDoo> evening all
[19:56] <basketball> !canibeop
[19:59] <basketball> hey AlanBell  that email you sent out the https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-etherpad link you dont need to be approved
[19:59] <Unit193> !canibananop
[20:00] <AlanBell> basketball: erm, you do
[20:00] <AlanBell> unless you are already an indirect member of it
[20:00] <AlanBell> which is why you are pending approval . . .
[20:01] <AlanBell> and now you are approved
[20:11] <basketball> AlanBell:  whoops it didnt say i needed to be accepted
[20:39] <basketball> when you are an op how often do you have to be online
[20:52] <MooDoo> basketball: I would of thought it would be when you get chance, I suspect RL takes priority :D
[20:53] <MooDoo> but don't quote me on that you might have to staple your fingers to the keyboard ;)
[20:54] <Unit193> Duct tape, but close enough.
[20:54] <MooDoo> lol
[20:54] <basketball> i would have guessed glue
[21:48] <basketball> is anyone here willing to train me so i am able to support more people and more accuratly
[21:48] <holstein> basketball: are you idle in the support channels?
[21:49] <basketball> no im trying to help in #ubuntu  in #ubuntu+1 i am listening
[21:49] <basketball> so i can help if needed
[21:49] <holstein> basketball: just stay there, and answer the questions you can.. if you have time to research the question, research and share relevant information
[21:50] <basketball> holstein:  is there like a cheat sheet with like website or commands to run
[21:50] <holstein> basketball: the wiki pages
[21:50] <holstein> i use whatever resources is relevant
[21:50] <holstein> are*
[21:51] <basketball> ok thank holstein  want to be able to support my community
[21:52] <holstein> ubottu is handy
[21:52] <holstein> !ask
[21:52] <holstein> !ask > basketball
[21:52] <holstein> for example
[21:53] <holstein> !Info firefox > basketball
[21:53] <holstein> not sure how to do that one..
[21:53] <holstein> !info firefox
[21:53] <ubot2`> 'maverick' is not a valid distribution:
[21:53] <basketball> i didnt ask to ask
[21:53] <holstein> basketball: im suggesting what bot commands are helpful
[21:54] <basketball> oh ok thought it was directed at me
[21:54] <IdleOne> the secret to being helpful is to not try and do everything. help where you can.
[21:54] <holstein> +1
[21:54] <basketball> +1
[21:55] <holstein> pick something you are into.. i started in the #ubuntustudio channel.. i asked a question.. then, 24hours late i asked again.. then 3 days later.. then, i just stayed and helped out there
[22:36] <basketball> when was the last op meeting
[22:36] <teward> who runs ubot2` ?
[22:37] <teward> because they need to change the distribution from "maverick"
[22:37] <teward> (old and ancient distribution is evil)
[22:37] <Unit193> ubot2`: info info
[22:37] <ubot2`> 'maverick' is not a valid distribution:
[22:37] <Unit193> See?  No valid ones at all. :P
[23:50] <phunyguy> basketball: you /really/ should learn to read the wiki.  :)
[23:50] <basketball> ???
[23:51] <phunyguy> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
[23:51] <phunyguy> the meetings are in there
[23:51] <phunyguy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[23:52] <phunyguy> "Meetings take place on a weekday in the second or third week of each month at 20:00 UTC (selected date announced monthly) and on the last Sunday of each month at 18:00 UTC "
[23:52] <IdleOne> yeah that isn't accurate
[23:53] <IdleOne> meeting times have been changed to 3rd Wednesday of the month @ 1800UTC
[23:53] <phunyguy> so are we behind a bit?
[23:53] <phunyguy> oh so it was close
[23:55] <phunyguy> and when did that change? It seems the last meeting I took part in was on a Sunday... lol
[23:55] <IdleOne> it changed when the new IRCC was elected
[23:55] <IdleOne> it could very well change again now. For now that is the schedule.
[23:56] <phunyguy> oh, did we miss last month?
[23:57] <IdleOne> we did
[23:57] <phunyguy> thought so
[23:57] <phunyguy> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-01-22-18.01.html <---  basketball
[23:58] <basketball> phunyguy:  i found that 3 hours ago
[23:58] <phunyguy> you only asked an hour ago
[23:58] <phunyguy> :/
[23:59] <IdleOne> that is what you get for trying to be nice
[23:59] <phunyguy> yeah, a second time.
[23:59] <basketball> i apreciate your hel[
[23:59] <basketball> help
[23:59] <phunyguy> I am starting to get the impression that you don't.
[23:59] <IdleOne> admittedly I am not feeling in a very nice mood right now so maybe I'll try being talkative