[00:00] <phunyguy> IdleOne: :(  You need a PM session?
[00:00] <IdleOne> err less talkative
[00:00] <IdleOne> phunyguy: nah I'm good, but thanks for the offer :)
[00:00] <phunyguy> always on the table/.
[00:02] <basketball> phunyguy:  i always appreciate help
[00:02] <basketball> unless it is from my grandma
[02:43] <harris_> is anyone here a moderator in askubuntu
[02:44] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/contact should help, i would imagine
[02:45] <harris_> i got banned from answering because i posted my comment as an answer because i dont have 50 reputation points to make a comment
[02:45] <holstein> it happens. gotta read and follwow rules, typically
[02:46] <harris_> how do they want you to help people with making there a bar to even post a comment
[02:47] <holstein> harris_: the contact should be at the link i gave.. you can ask them whatever you like..
[03:54] <harris_> holstein,  do you know anyone who is a modorator in ask ubuntu
[03:57] <IdleOne> harris_: http://askubuntu.com/contact that is how you contact them
[03:58] <rww> does that contact stackexchange or moderators?
[03:58] <harris_> IdleOne,  i did already
[03:58] <IdleOne> now wait for a response
[03:58] <harris_> ok IdleOne
[04:19] <jose> rww: team@stackexchange.com
[04:19] <rww> jose: i expect that contacts stackexchange, not moderators ;)
[04:20] <jose> well, the site is stackoverflow, which should have another email address/contact form
[05:15] <Flannel> cprofitt: I know that, but if we're up against "the IRCC is out of touch and ineffective", maybe doing something of marginal benefit isn't the best first course of action.
[06:50] <Tm_T> Flannel: in there I see a problem
[06:50] <Tm_T> Flannel: the whole notion that IRCC need to do something to fix the team is something I don't undestand, IRCC cannot fix the team (alone)
[06:51] <Tm_T> things has to happen with the team, in the team, IRCC is part of the team but only part
[06:52] <Flannel> Tm_T: Well, that gets into another comment I've made before, and haven't rehashed this time around, which is the team needs to decide whether the IRCC is leadership, or just an appeals board.  It's currently functioning as leadership, which is something I never really thought the operators team needed.  But it was installed back when everyone and their mother was having a leadership council forced upon them.
[06:53] <Tm_T> Flannel: I think it could be "leadership" in a sense that it helps to find ways to work, but not as "only ones that are capable of doing decisions"
[06:54] <Flannel> Whether we have that everyone-is-a-leader mentality still, and can get back to governing via consensus without leadership making decisions, is something I haven't had a chance to think on much.
[06:55] <Tm_T> leadership doesn't mean being only one with right to do and decide, this is something I don't understand really why people take it like that
[06:56] <Flannel> No, but when there's a council that makes decisions, you go and propose things to them, that's pretty well established.
[06:56] <MooDoo> hello all
[06:57] <Flannel> There's been plenty of instances where people have said "Hey, I'd like to go do this" and then were told "the IRCC will handle it".  Whether that would happen currently, who knows, but it's happened in the past.
[06:58] <Tm_T> Flannel: indeed, that's something we can discuss, shades of grey, not black and white (:
[06:59] <Tm_T> what's been worrying me in many places around Ubuntu community, not just irc team, has been this leaving responsibility of doing to few and selected and then complaining that nothing is getting done
[07:00] <Tm_T> I don't like the loss of the joy of doing together I see around
[07:00] <Flannel> Tm_T: I don't think the responsibility of "doing" is left to them, just the responsibility.  It's a leaders responsibility to drum up support for something and get it done, regardless of whether they do it personally.
[07:01] <Unit193> 1. Cloaks  2. IRC membership  3. Appeals  4. ???
[07:01] <Flannel> I'd get rid of #2, personally.
[07:01] <Tm_T> Flannel: I kinda agree there, but I would also love to see community as a whole taking care of things they find important
[07:02] <Flannel> We have membership boards, IRCC can provide an official endorsement of people based on their IRC activities, membership boards can take that into account, while reviewing everything else.
[07:02] <Unit193> Flannel: So, just the RMBs? :/
[07:02] <Flannel> Unit193: yes.
[07:02] <Unit193> I don't personally like that, but OK.
[07:02] <Flannel> That'd provide consistency between membership entities.
[07:03] <Tm_T> membership thing, I don't care which board makes the decision, as long as there's some to make
[07:03] <Flannel> But, that's always been my beef with *all* non-regional membership boards.
[07:03] <Unit193> Forums, DMB, and I think a couple others (askubuntu? Loco?) can approve them and they are better suited to know the user applying.
[07:03] <Flannel> that's non-"regional membership boards" not "non-regional" membership boards.
[07:04] <Flannel> Unit193: right, and I disapprove of that too.  Those entities should be able to make an informed endorsement, which is taken into consideration by the RMBs
[07:07] <Flannel> Unit193: Back to your original question: POC for cloaks/network issues/etc, appeals/dispute resolution, operator approval (and care and feeding of the process), being responsible for making sure IRC meetings happen, and that appropriate things are brought up at those IRC meetings (this is an "Operator Team meeting" not an "IRCC meeting", the meeting is for the team, not for the IRCC, theyre just the stewards).
[07:07] <Flannel> And then a POC for CC interactions.
[07:07] <Flannel> (Much of this is straight out of the charter)
[07:08] <Unit193> (I know it's an IRC meeting.)  Right, button clickers, but otherwise more up to everyone (Well, not FN POC, but meh.)
[07:08] <Flannel> Which, I guess touches on basically everything I was planning on writing about in the future when I had time!
[07:08]  * Flannel dusts off his hands.
[07:09] <Unit193> Not really a question, but more like what they would be "cut back" to, the question marks were more fill in the blanks.
[07:09] <Flannel> Unit193: No, we call it the IRCC meeting, it's a meeting for the IRCC to discuss and decide stuff currently.  This is different than an IRC Team meeting, where the IRC Team is the primary discussor, and the IRCC is just there to make sure an agenda is in order, and things move smoothly, etc.
[07:10] <Flannel> I'm not sure what a "button clicker" is referring to in this context.
[07:11] <Tm_T> Flannel: I remember it used to be IRC team meeting
[07:11] <Tm_T> I've always considered it as IRC team meeting
[07:11] <Unit193> ^
[07:12] <Flannel> Tm_T: Right.  But that's changed along the way.
[07:12] <Unit193> Eh, mainly because no issues to talk about and nobody shows up.
[07:12] <Flannel> Unit193: Maybe that's indicative of something else.
[07:16] <Flannel> None of this got this way overnight, and it's going to take a lot of effort, and more importantly tenacity, to get it back to whereever we're taking it.  Moods and opinions change slowly, habits doubly so.
[07:17] <Tm_T> indeed
[07:38] <harris_> gtg
[09:11] <AlanBell> Flannel: so for #2 membership, I think we have done that twice in the last two years (though I might be out by one)
[09:12] <AlanBell> Flannel: we also have not called it the IRCC meeting much over the last couple of years (though it is called that on the calendar)
[09:13] <AlanBell> it has been introduced as the IRC team meeting, and I have always said everyone is welcome on every meeting announcement I have sent out
[09:13] <AlanBell> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-irc/2013-September/001615.html < like that for example
[09:15] <AlanBell> I have no clue why people think it is an IRCC only meeting :/ how has that gone wrong?
[09:18] <Sompane> good day all
[09:18] <Sompane> i have a fat problem on my hands,
[09:19] <Sompane> I installed Ubuntu 8.04 (recently) and formatted the entire laptop in the process.
[09:19] <Sompane> Now i'm unable to install anything else on it. It doesn't even boot from Disc, of Flash Drive
[09:20] <AlanBell> hi Sompane, 8.04 is kinda old :/
[09:20] <AlanBell> like 6 years old
[09:21] <AlanBell> any particular reason for not choosing a recent version of Ubuntu (and really the #ubuntu channel is a better place to ask than here)
[09:22] <Sompane> it was foolish of me really. I was waiting for the download of 12.04 LTS to finish. Which is also taking a loooong time.
[09:22] <Sompane> i found the 8.04 disc lying around and i just shoved it in :(
[09:23] <Sompane> thanks, I'll make my way over to the #ubuntu channel
[09:25] <IdleOne> 8.04 is no longer supported, it is EOL
[09:25] <AlanBell> was a nice release though, I liked Hardy :)
[09:26] <IdleOne> it was
[09:26] <AlanBell> best tshirt evar
[09:27] <IdleOne> AlanBell: about the meetings being called IRCC meeting on the calendar, jos e can easily change that
[09:27] <AlanBell> yeah, that is a specific and actionable change \o/ I like those
[09:27] <IdleOne> I think that might have been my clerical error actually
[09:28] <AlanBell> could have been that way forever, I haven't really been that concerned about the specific meeting title, but I have always tried to emphasise that it is inclusive
[09:39] <Unit193> I never thought it was IRCC...
[09:44] <AlanBell> I have to say I am a bit confused by several of the things that Flannel mentioned
[09:45] <Tm_T> AlanBell: confusion is good, we can brainwash you more easily then
[09:45] <Tm_T> whoops
[09:45]  * Tm_T hides
[09:45] <AlanBell> yeah, I think it is about time to pop my brain out for a quick wash :)
[09:46] <AlanBell> 06:57 < Flannel> There's been plenty of instances where people have said "Hey, I'd like to go do this" and then were told "the IRCC will handle it".  Whether that would happen currently,  who knows, but it's happened in the past.
[09:46] <AlanBell> what is that about?
[09:46] <AlanBell> who wanted to do what, who told them the IRCC would handle it?
[09:46] <AlanBell> did anyone tell the IRCC they would handle whatever it was?
[09:47]  * MooDoo grabs the popcorn and watches
[09:47] <AlanBell> nom nom
[09:47] <AlanBell> anyhow, I should close this window and do some work :) laters all o/
[09:52] <MooDoo> later
[12:30] <hggdh> I do not think it would work, at least not with some major changes to RMB
[12:41] <AlanBell> I don't get how it is an issue at all
[12:41] <AlanBell> the only membership we have done in the last two years is m4v (I was off by one)
[12:54] <hggdh> neither do I.
[14:59] <cprofitt> Flannel: I see the ircc as being similar to the LoCo Council...
[15:00] <cprofitt> not saying I am correct in that... but that was what I had in my brain pan
[15:16] <cprofitt> hey Darkwing
[15:16] <Darkwing> Hey cprofitt! :)
[15:16] <Darkwing> Been a while
[15:25] <basketballllll> rww: are you online
[15:55] <aquarius> I don't know who owns whichever bot controls the topics of UDS-related channels, but the topics are all related to the previous UDS in November, rather than the one that's going on now
[16:02] <IdleOne> aquarius: I poked a couple of people about it. hopefully it will get corrected soon. thanks for the info
[16:03] <aquarius> cheers :)
[20:54] <bkerensa> AlanBell: probably an oversight but I still have ops in #Ubuntu
[20:54] <bkerensa> :)
[20:54] <bkerensa> >chanserv< op #Ubuntu bkerensa
[20:54] <bkerensa> [13:53]  * ChanServ gives channel operator status to bkerensa
[20:55] <bkerensa> I should not have those privileges anymore :) the only reason I noticed is I was in the ops !help message
[23:21] <ClumsyFairyQueen> can someone please kick the troll in #ubuntu - thanks