[14:54] <balloons> anyone who wants in the hangout, feel free to join up ;-)
[14:55]  * thomi will lurk for now
[14:56] <thomi> in case I fall asleep at the wheel
[14:56] <balloons> haha
[14:57] <balloons> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYehEGwOYdCFyIs1PvI1UEb_C15IQ-zSWw_hyU9ceRXs4dg7aA?authuser=1&hl=en
[14:57] <balloons> hangout link for anyone interested ^^
[15:05] <balloons> hangout link for anyone who wants in: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYehEGwOYdCFyIs1PvI1UEb_C15IQ-zSWw_hyU9ceRXs4dg7aA?authuser=1&hl=en
[15:06] <nik90> iBelieve: you should join the hangout
[15:06] <iBelieve> nik90: wish I could, but Google won't let me since I'm under 18. Next I'll be able to, though!
[15:07] <nik90> iBelieve: ah...let us know if you have any thing and we will discuss them
[15:07] <iBelieve> nik90: great, thanks
[15:08] <karni> Perhaps you guys can talk about what *would* be the advised release process
[15:12] <geddy> don't forget, python3 for autopilot tests please!
[15:13] <thomi> +1 for that ^^
[15:13] <thomi> the sooner we can stop supporting py2 in autopilot the better :)
[15:15] <karni> Thanks for your answer
[15:16] <thomi> Also, if you're writing autopilot tests, you really should join #ubuntu-autopilot on freenode
[15:17] <iBelieve> nik90: about running tests using CI, I've been using Travis CI for GitHub. It works great, though I've only been running my qml unit tests and haven't figured out how to use Autopilot.
[15:18] <iBelieve> It was really simple to set up and it now saves me time because I don't have to worry about forgetting about running the tests manually
[15:19] <balloons> iBelieve, add a link and note into the pad if you would?
[15:19] <iBelieve> balloons: sure
[15:19] <nik90> iBelieve: that's pretty cool
[15:49] <balloons> anyone else have questions or discussion points?
[15:49] <zyga-uds> it would be nice to have a way for app developers to 'opt in' to beta somehow
[15:49] <zyga-uds> so that a developer could release a 'beta' and get say, 100 users to use it (max)
[15:53] <nik90> zyga-uds: that's a nice idea
[15:53] <nik90> that's what we are discussing atm
[16:01] <rvr> I cannot see the embedded etherpad, even though I login
[16:01] <rvr> Clicking to open in a separate window did the magic
[16:03] <dpm> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYeAJD8ms3jDvcVmacyeMvHsAH_OJP_J8g0rztnREsiroCT-5A
[16:03] <dpm> for anyone to join in
[16:03] <dpm> it'd be good to have some developer feedback
[16:03] <dpm> nik90, if you're around and want to join, you'd be welcome :)
[16:03] <nik90> dpm: sure
[16:04] <dpm> excellent :)
[16:04] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-testing-workflow-for-app-devs
[16:04] <nik90> hmm it says I am not allowed to join the hangout
[16:04] <nik90> let me reopen firefox
[16:04] <balloons> dpm, it kicked me from the call
[16:05] <balloons> same error, not allowed to join :-(
[16:05] <dpm> balloons, I'll try to add you directly
[16:05] <nik90> dpm: can you send an invite to nik90@ubuntu.com
[16:06] <elopio> nik90: now there's a link on summit.ubuntu.com that says Join hangout
[16:06] <elopio> I've just found it, pretty nice.
[16:06] <dpm> balloons, nik90, sent you an invite
[16:13] <geddy> does the autopilot template write python3 files? :)
[16:14] <balloons> geddy, good question, I'll note it
[16:15] <zyga-uds> barking dog, always happens in a public hangout
[16:17] <sergiusens> is there going to be an option for qmltestrunner for the self contained tests and leave autopilot for more integration like tests?
[16:17] <balloons> sergiusens, what do you mean?
[16:18] <sergiusens> balloons, something that doesn't interact with the system to use qmltestrunner; like some of the unity8 tests
[16:19] <balloons> sergiusens, yes that's what we would advocate. Hence the example tests should be reflective of that
[16:20] <sergiusens> balloons, example in case; a calculator tests that does 2 + 2 and checks the result could be done with qmltestrunner
[16:20] <balloons> sergiusens, yes, almost all the calc tests should be unit tests
[16:21] <sergiusens> balloons, great; just trying to lower turn around time :-)
[16:22] <balloons> sergiusens, :-) merges welcome, hah
[16:23] <elopio> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/trunk/view/head:/share/qtcreator/templates/wizards/ubuntu/simple/tests/autopilot/displayName/test_main.py
[16:23] <elopio> here's the template we need to run ^
[16:28] <elopio> zyga-uds: that's always my dog. Sorry.
[16:28] <nxvl> dpm: what about having "required tests" and "recommended tests", where required would have absolutely necesary tests to ensure it does work
[16:28] <nxvl> dpm: and then "recommended" to do some extra testing as error handling and such that doesn't need to run all the time
[16:29] <nxvl> or even have "bug testing", "regression testing", "functionallity testing" and so on
[16:29] <nxvl> and group them, requiring the run of some, and make it optional/just before pushing the rest
[16:32] <dpm> nxvl, trying to answer that right now
[16:32] <dpm> there might be a bit of delay, though
[16:32] <nxvl> dpm: yeah, the audio just getting here
[16:44] <balloons> any questions / comments?
[16:57] <rvr> Typing noise is not nice ;P
[16:59] <karni> rvr: noted. seems like a hangout bug. or an NSA guy with no audio feed.
[16:59] <karni> rvr: ignore me, different room hehe
[16:59] <balloons> ty dpm
[16:59] <karni> but same problem
[16:59]  * dpm hugs balloons
[17:00] <dpm> another nice session
[18:02] <dpm> sorry everyone, I seem to have some difficulties with the hangout. The session will be up in a couple of minutes
[18:04] <dpm> m-b-o1, here's the link to join the hangout: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYcyO_cj_G3XuBsP6LSWTXJdLFw9K65SGUbvg7pbXErEILsxvw
[18:04] <dpm> and for everyone else who wants to join
[18:09] <dpm> http://pad.ubuntu.com/uds-1403-weather-app-planning-session
[18:12] <dpm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-commons/+spec/coreapps-1404-weather-dev
[18:45] <m-b-o1> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-weather-app/+bug/1288819
[18:45] <udsbotu> Launchpad bug 1288819 in Ubuntu Weather App "font.pointSize should not be used together with units.gu()" [Undecided,New] - Assigned to Raúl Yeguas (neokore)
[18:57] <balloons> kyleN?
[19:15] <kyleN> the test has to run in an environment that declares the same framework as the click pkg
[19:21] <dholbach> who is running the hangout?
[19:21] <dholbach> could it be that David Barth's video is "locked" (or focused)?
[19:21] <balloons> kyleN, ^^ unselect him
[19:22] <balloons> kyleN, remember you control the video feed so clicking on someone locks camera
[19:23] <antdillon> Sorry im late guys, I might have missed something? But can the user run these tests locally on there app before submitting?
[19:23] <dholbach> yes, click-reviewers-tool might be a good place for running some tests (depending on how much of a blocker some of the problems might be deemed to be)
[19:24] <dholbach> antdillon, yes, it was a recent addition to qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu
[19:24] <balloons> antdillon, tes
[19:24] <antdillon> Thanks
[19:24] <dholbach> antdillon, it's the equivalent of running   'click-run-checks myapp.click'
[19:24] <antdillon> dholbach, Sure
[19:26] <antdillon> Will there be a package manager like bower?
[19:26] <dholbach> kyleN, can you please unselect David Barth in the g+ video?
[19:26] <antdillon> To control version control
[19:26] <dholbach> antdillon, I don't know - what is 'bower'? :)
[19:27] <antdillon> Bower A package manager for the web By Twitter
[19:27] <antdillon> http://bower.io/
[19:27] <dholbach> aha, just looking at the page -- which features would you be most interested in having in click / qtcreator / our software store?
[19:28] <antdillon> For example if the user wants to use a external package like sprinting then bower manages the install and keeping it up to date
[19:29] <antdillon> It might be something to think about in the future
[19:29] <antdillon> It also manages all the testing suits such as jasmin
[19:29] <dholbach> would this be like "adding dependencies" to click packages?
[19:30] <dholbach> (not sure if I understand correctly - I have no experiences with it)
[19:30] <antdillon> Yes exactly
[19:30] <dholbach> so far we said we'd let the app author bundle stuff they need
[19:30] <antdillon> Ok great
[19:30] <dholbach> ... and when we find out that everybody does it, we ship it in Touch as well ;-)
[19:31] <dholbach> or something along those lines
[19:31] <dholbach> "dependencies are hard" was probably a lesson learnt which led to click being like it is today :)
[19:32] <antdillon> Yeah I guess that is why twitter created bower
[19:32] <dholbach> balloons, can you mention to kyleN to unselect dbarth? ;-)
[19:32] <antdillon> Its a corner stone of yeoman
[19:33] <dholbach> here we go!
[19:33] <dholbach> thanks balloons
[19:44]  * thomi strongly agrees with elopio
[19:45] <thomi> (WRT using selenium for acceptance tests)
[19:45] <balloons> that strongly shifts the middle argument towards using selenium too :-)
[19:46] <thomi> Start writing acceptance tests like you mean to carry on: don't invest in crappy technology stacks. We've tried that, and it causes us a lot of pain
[19:46] <thomi> David isn't on IRC?
[19:46] <balloons> here's in the wrong room, hah
[19:47] <thomi> The problem with an interim solution is that you reduce the pressure to get the final solution ready
[19:47] <thomi> and most often end up with the interim solution forever :(
[19:48] <alesage> "has been in use for decades" :)
[19:50] <dholbach> are we going to document the best practices for html5 app testing? :)
[19:51] <balloons> dholbach, I have the recommendations at the bottom
[19:51] <balloons> but yes, I'll cut things off very shortly
[19:52] <dholbach> balloons, I meant for app developers who check developer.u.c and our other docs :)
[19:52] <balloons> dholbach, yes, that's an action item
[19:53] <dholbach> cool :)
[19:58] <dholbach> good work everyone! :)