[14:44] <alecu> hello!
[14:51] <__lucio___> mhall119: hello! is this like the last one and you will get me the link to the hangout?
[14:51] <mhall119> __lucio___: not me for this session
[14:52] <mhall119> __lucio___: you should be able to start it
[14:52] <mhall119> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions has instructions
[14:52] <mhall119> either that or one of the client track leads can do it for you
[14:53] <mhall119> __lucio___: I'm going to be running sessions on the appdev track, so I can't help, sorry
[14:55] <__lucio___> mhall119: who is the client track lead? how do i find out?
[14:56] <mhall119> __lucio___: http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1403/tracks
[14:56] <__lucio___> mhall119: thanks :)
[14:56] <mhall119> np
[14:58] <__lucio___> seb128: hi! can you give me a hand with setting up the HO? (i have no youtube channels)
[14:59] <seb128> __lucio___, the track lead is supposed to host, I'm trying to start the session but google changed
[14:59] <mhall119> __lucio___: you should be able to use your @canonical Google+ account
[14:59] <seb128> like it doesn't let me start a public hangout without inviting people
[14:59] <seb128> mhall119, can anyone host? ;-)
[14:59] <mhall119> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions has new instructions
[15:00] <mhall119> seb128: only track leads or the session's creator
[15:00] <seb128> mhall119, ok, so __lucio___ can host that one?
[15:00] <mhall119> seb128: if you follow the instructions above, you can create the hangout without inviting people
[15:00] <seb128> __lucio___, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Sessions
[15:01] <__lucio___> seb128: tried that one, wants me to create a youtube channel and do sms validation (which most likely won't work in .ar)
[15:01] <seb128> mhall119, I did what's on there, but on step 8 I guess a dialog asking me if I require participants to be 18 and that let me invite people, the "
[15:01] <seb128> oh, need to type "ignore"
[15:02] <seb128> __lucio___, ok, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYfIBh1TAock35S03zx0yBiLkrNYO_4xRNdTZxdqakCtGlUkQg?authuser=0
[15:02] <seb128> __lucio___, share with participants
[15:02] <__lucio___> seb128: you rock! thanks
[15:04] <seb128> __lucio___, let me know when you want to start the session so I can kick the streaming in
[15:04] <__lucio___> seb128: go ahead
[15:05] <seb128> done
[15:05] <seb128> http://youtu.be/oU2nNF7_gU4
[15:05] <aquarius> and I can see  you on the web page, so you are live
[15:06]  * olli waves at aquarius
[15:06] <__lucio___> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdev-1311-push-notifications
[15:06] <__lucio___> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/service-1404-push-notifications
[15:07] <__lucio___> http://people.canonical.com/~john/push.png
[15:09] <aquarius> heya olli
[15:10]  * aquarius likes http://people.canonical.com/~john/push.png :)
[15:12] <aquarius> Does the PPA stuff let me run my *own* push server? Or if I want push notifications for my apps, should I just wait until they land in 14.10 or whenever?
[15:12] <aquarius> aha, olli has just asked my question :)
[15:14] <aquarius> When a notification comes into my device for my app, does the device actually *start my app*, or does it just show a notify-osd bubble without starting my app (as iOS does)?
[15:14] <Chipaca> aquarius: the latter
[15:15] <Chipaca> __lucio___: no :D
[15:16] <aquarius> ah, right... and tapping the bubble will start up my app. Does the bubble pass a parameter to my app with the notification text? Or is there a way to ask the notification daemon for details of all the notifications that have come in? It's really annoying on iOS where the notification daemon shows a bubble, but the app doesn't get the details of that bubble and so has to go and request from its own server!
[15:17] <alecu> aquarius: this looks like a job for URL dispatcher!
[15:17] <alecu> aquarius: ted is working on that
[15:17] <aquarius> alecu, being able to ask for past unread notifications for my app would be ideal
[15:18] <alecu> aquarius: asking the notification client, right?
[15:18] <aquarius> url dispatcher would let me see *the notification that created the bubble I tapped on*, which is nice, but not as nice as seeing *all* the notifications that have come in since I last checked
[15:18] <aquarius> yeah, having an API to ask the notification client "which notifications have come in for my app since the last time I asked" would be brilliant
[15:19] <lool> aquarius: it might be an incomplete view though; we could potentially drop some notifications if the device is offline for a while; but it could still be useful, I agree
[15:19] <lool> or perhaps we need two types of notifications
[15:19] <alecu> aquarius: also, I assume some kind of aggregation needs to happen client side. I don't want 83 bubbles for each mail I've not read!
[15:19] <lool> there can never be an unbounded commitment that you're getting all notifications ever missed though
[15:20] <lool> on iOS I believe the last one wins when e.g. you're setting the badge number
[15:22] <aquarius> lool, sure. It just infuriates me when I get a notification on iOS (for, say, a twitter message), I start my app, and my app does not know about that message and has to request it again from the internet
[15:24] <aquarius> Does the notification client depend on the Unity 8/etc infrastructure? That is: is it blocked from working on the desktop until Unity 8/click packages/Mir/upstart-app-launch land on the desktop?
[15:24] <alecu> the "how hard is GO" question was a bit misleading, because both chipaca and samuele are ultra-smart!
[15:24]  * Chipaca blushes
[15:24] <olli> alecu, ;)
[15:24] <Chipaca> aquarius: the notification client depends on almost nothing
[15:25] <Chipaca> aquarius: it depends on libwhoopsie :)
[15:25] <Chipaca> aquarius: <end of list>
[15:25] <alecu> Chipaca: btw, what about memory usage on the client? and about shared libraries?
[15:25] <alecu> Chipaca: what go compiler are you using?
[15:25] <Chipaca> aquarius: to have it run on the desktop, you .. just run it
[15:25] <Chipaca> alecu: the plan 9 one
[15:25] <aquarius> Chipaca, cool -- how does the registration process work?
[15:25] <Chipaca> aquarius: if you have url dispatcher installed it'll work end to end
[15:26] <Chipaca> aquarius: remember no registration because only broadcast
[15:26] <aquarius> that is: how do I get a unique ID from my desktop device?
[15:26] <Chipaca> aquarius: ah! libwhoopsie does that
[15:26] <aquarius> oh, right, cool
[15:26] <__lucio___> aaaand, we are done.
[15:26] <facundobatista> __lucio___, thanks!
[15:26] <Chipaca> aquarius: that's per-device, not per-user, for which we'll be using sso at some point soon
[15:26] <aquarius> so I could write a thing which pops up "hey, your phone needs updating" on my desktop? :)
[15:26] <__lucio___> seb128: thanks again!
[15:26] <alecu> Chipaca: the plan 9? I meant gc or gccgo
[15:26] <Chipaca> aquarius: yes, yes you could
[15:27] <aquarius> thank you __lucio___, olli, everyone
[15:27] <__lucio___> aquarius: hi! :)
[15:27] <Chipaca> alecu: gc is from plan 9
[15:27] <aquarius> heya __lucio___ :)
I want push notifications!</childish>
[15:27] <Chipaca> aquarius: me too!
[15:27] <aquarius> make them work for apps ;)
[15:27] <alecu> Chipaca: ah, ok.
[15:27] <seb128> __lucio___, yw ;-)
[15:28] <alecu> Chipaca: so, you had to link all libraries statically?
[15:28] <__lucio___> aquarius: hopefully next UDS we will be discussing that and promising some deadlines
[15:28] <aquarius> yay!
[15:28] <Chipaca> alecu: nope. The go libs, yes
[15:28] <alecu> Chipaca: I mean... did you end up using any non-go library that you had to link statically?
[15:28] <alecu> Chipaca: ok
[15:28] <Chipaca> alecu: libwhoopsie is dynamic
[15:28] <aquarius> I have, like, 39 ideas for apps which require push notifications :P
[15:29] <Chipaca> alecu: cgo lets you use C, directly
[15:29] <Chipaca> alecu: and the resulting binary links those libs dynamically
[15:29] <alecu> great
[15:29] <Chipaca> alecu: (look up cgo, because it might not actually be go, technically)
[15:29] <alecu> will do
[15:30] <alecu> Chipaca: last Q: (hopefully) do you have this running on arm devices?
[15:30] <Chipaca> alecu: yes, the ppa has an arm package
[15:30] <alecu> awesome
[15:31]  * alecu has not kept track of go in a year or so, and a lot of my worries seem fixed.
[15:31] <aquarius> __lucio___, Chipaca, do you want to hear a complaint?
[15:32] <Chipaca> aquarius: go on then
[15:32] <aquarius> https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-push-devs/ - last post was September.
[15:32] <__lucio___> aquarius: i want to hear that there are no complaints, but i also want that to be true
[15:32] <__lucio___> so go ahead
[15:32] <aquarius> a tiny bit more visibility into what's going on with push notifications would be nice :)
[15:32] <Chipaca> aquarius: it's hard to keep it going talking to oneself
[15:32] <aquarius> Chipaca, believe me, I understand
[15:33] <aquarius> been there. :)
[15:33] <Chipaca> aquarius: but that doesn't mean you're wrong :)
[15:33] <aquarius> but speaking as an Outsider now, I have no idea what's going on, and I don't want to hassle you guys, 'cos it's not scalable :P
[15:34] <aquarius> anyway, end of complaint.
[15:35] <aquarius> Chipaca, if I enable the PPA, with its Colonel Jessup warning, is it going to ruin my life and overwrite a bunch of stuff I care about?
[15:36] <Chipaca> aquarius: if you leave it enabled and forget about it, at some point in the next few months, it'll make your house uninsurable
[15:36] <aquarius> I don't care about the house ;)
[15:36] <Chipaca> aquarius: but today, and for the next month or so, it'll be fine
[15:37] <aquarius> for the next month, though, it doesn't *work*, right? I mean... it's not going to deliver any notifications yet?
[15:37] <Chipaca> aquarius: I promise not to break it until it's on the image
[15:37] <Chipaca> aquarius: i can show you how to make it work talking to your own notification server if yo wish
[15:37] <aquarius> or, more worryingly, is it going to deliver a notification every nine seconds saying "lucio testing please ignore"?
[15:37] <Chipaca> or i could write an email to the list with that
[15:37] <aquarius> email to the list! yes!
[15:38] <aquarius> giving __lucio___ the ability to pop up whatever text he likes on my desktop does not seem like the happy path to productivity for me :)
[15:38] <__lucio___> nine seconds? i have load testing planned
[15:38] <__lucio___> who cares about productivity when one can have fun
[15:38] <aquarius> oh, every nine seconds it's going to pop up *ten thousand* messages on my desktop saying "hi there! this is lucio!", eh?
[15:39]  * aquarius does not enable the ppa ;)
[15:39] <__lucio___> aquarius: but if we do any load testing, we will be doing it on staging, so you should not worry about that
[15:39]  * Chipaca hopes the client on the ppa isn't looking at staging
[15:40] <pedronis_> Chipaca: the port will change before we do load testing I think
[15:40] <Chipaca> \o/
[15:43] <aquarius> anyway, thank you all. Looking forward to being able to play with this stuff. Chipaca, when you write that mail, I'd love to read it: feel free to nudge me with a link :)
[16:02] <seb128> http://youtu.be/OZ79ea4BFuY
[16:02] <seb128> ^ stream
[16:02] <seb128> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/hoaevent/AP36tYdAeyzQF-o7YzDIeZuUsLC-opK3y92evk5z9mnMXkybLf2Ldw?authuser=0
[16:02] <seb128> ^ hangout
[16:12] <bfiller> also will be adding messaging-app in the future for sharing via MMS
[16:13] <seb128> bfiller, not sure how much delay between IRC but Ken is asking who is going to work on that
[16:14] <mandel> kenvandine, yes, I'm dealing with uploads for mms similar to the downloads,  the uploads that were just mentioned, how do they work?
[16:14] <bfiller> seb128: someone from my team once mms lands in the backend
[16:14] <bfiller> foudations working on MMS backend
[16:14] <bfiller> I'll add it
[16:15] <tedg> Do we have per-user ringtones?
[16:15] <tedg> i.e. call from my dentist is a drill sound
[16:16] <tedg> I guess that's more per-contact
[16:18] <mandel> kenvandine, yes, we are dealing with uploads too, and seems like we have a small overlap, right?
[16:18] <mandel> indeed
[16:18] <mandel> browser => uploads
[16:19] <bfiller> mandel: browser uploads won't use upload manager for now
[16:19] <mandel> bfiller, ah, ok :)
[16:19] <bfiller> mandel: but should add that next release I think
[16:19] <mandel> ok, I was worried that we were doing things twice
[16:19] <mandel> +1
[16:20] <bfiller> mandel: hopefully it will be easy for us to cut over from using browser uploads to delegating to donwload manager to do the upload
[16:21] <mandel> bfiller, hopefully.. although a lot of webpages do use flash for uploading.. so it will be a hard problem to solve
[16:21] <tedg> Thanks folks!
[16:21] <mandel> bfiller, but we are very early in the development to think about that right now :)
[16:21] <bfiller> mandel: that's will be interesting
[16:22] <mandel> bfiller, you are better spoken than me, I would have cursed
[16:22] <bfiller> mandel: haha
[16:22] <Elleo> mandel: presumably there isn't much we can do about that on the phone since adobe seem to have pulled back from general arm flash releases?
[16:22] <bfiller> mandel: I'm just pretending that is a problem that we wont' have to solve :)
[16:23] <bfiller> Elleo: good point
[16:23] <bfiller> see, problem solved :)
[16:23] <Elleo> heh
[16:23] <mandel> Elleo, true, I just mentioned because a lot of pages use it, like flickr
[16:23] <mandel> but I agree, lets wait to see how we get downloads and then worry about uploads
[16:23] <kenvandine> mandel, i think most sites fallback without falsh
[16:23] <kenvandine> flash
[16:24] <kenvandine> i know flickr did last time i tried it
[16:25] <mandel> sweet
[16:27] <kenvandine> Elleo, i'm going to add an item for gallery-app switching to the QML api too
[16:27] <Elleo> kenvandine: okay
[16:29] <kenvandine> mandel, the download manager work for the transfer indicator/hub integration, who's name should i put on the work item?
[16:29] <kenvandine> gatox?
[16:29] <mandel> kenvandine, for the dbus and cpp api, me
[16:30] <mandel> kenvandine, for the qml changes, gatox
[16:30] <kenvandine> what's his launchpad id?
[16:31] <mandel> kenvandine, agh, he has a long one
[16:31] <mandel> kenvandine, diegosarmentero
[16:31] <mandel> kenvandine, I think, let me double check
[16:31] <mandel> kenvandine, https://launchpad.net/~diegosarmentero
[16:32] <kenvandine> thx
[16:37] <kenvandine> ok, i've updated the blueprint based on the etherpad, thanks everyone!
[16:45] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:45] <Elleo> great :)
[17:28] <navnanav> aloha
[22:32] <diegocarrera> where can i found a documentation about this push notifications? .. any URL ?