| === stgraber_ is now known as stgraber | ||
| === _salem is now known as salem_ | ||
| === salem_ is now known as _salem | ||
| sethj | I'm trying to run this testcase http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63606/testcases/1310/results but after following steps 1-3 it only allows me to upgrade to 12.10 not 14.04 (I'm running 12.04 in a VM) | 03:04 |
|---|---|---|
| sethj | Do I need to allow pre-release updates? | 03:05 |
| dkessel | good morning | 07:53 |
| DanChapman | good morning all | 08:15 |
| dkessel | good morning DanChapman | 08:26 |
| elfy | hi dkessel DanChapman | 08:28 |
| davmor2 | Morning all | 10:08 |
| === _salem is now known as salem_ | ||
| cgoldberg | balloons, are you able to login to wiki.ubuntu.com ? It times out on me waiting for my OpenID. | 13:40 |
| elfy | cgoldberg: works for me | 13:42 |
| cgoldberg | elfy, weird. i'll try logging out of LP and clearing browser cache | 13:42 |
| cgoldberg | heh.. that worked.. logged in now | 13:45 |
| balloons | cgoldberg, :_) sometimes ff gets weird with ubuntu sso | 13:51 |
| * dpniel waves to the room from grouper | 13:51 | |
| dpniel | Hey balloons | 13:52 |
| cgoldberg | o/ dpniel | 13:52 |
| balloons | hey dpniel | 13:52 |
| balloons | ohh nice! how's the irc client? | 13:52 |
| dpniel | hey cgoldberg | 13:52 |
| dpniel | balloons: finally got channel lists working, been a bit of a pain | 13:53 |
| balloons | pm's working? | 14:03 |
| dpniel | balloons: not atm should be soon though :-) | 14:05 |
| === bfiller is now known as bfiller_afk | ||
| disc0tech | balloons DanChapman - revised MP now awaiting attention for fileroller... | 15:24 |
| balloons | disc0tech, happy friday to you | 15:25 |
| disc0tech | you too | 15:25 |
| balloons | so https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-disc0tech/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/fileroller/+merge/211072 | 15:28 |
| balloons | ok so disc0tech in the _patch_home, you don't need the silliness with the length 25 temp dir | 15:30 |
| balloons | you can just make a temp folder and use it | 15:30 |
| balloons | otherwise this looks like a nice improvement at first glance | 15:31 |
| disc0tech | I wondered what all that was about | 15:31 |
| disc0tech | will remove :) | 15:31 |
| balloons | :-) it was something specific for music app needs.. | 15:31 |
| disc0tech | pushed, back to rbox... | 15:38 |
| === bfiller_afk is now known as bfiller | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| balloons | disc0tech, I approved.. have you ever thought about writing tests for the core apps? | 17:57 |
| disc0tech | Do you have a list of apps considered "core"? | 17:57 |
| balloons | disc0tech, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/ | 17:58 |
| disc0tech | ah, for the touch? | 17:58 |
| balloons | disc0tech, basically it's the community "core apps", meaning apps for the ubuntu phablet images | 17:58 |
| balloons | yep | 17:58 |
| disc0tech | I will probably wait until I have a supported device before I do anything on touch. | 17:59 |
| balloons | most folks just hack and write them on our desktops, so don't feel like you need a device | 18:00 |
| balloons | they run fine on the desktop | 18:00 |
| disc0tech | Sure, might take a look once I've finished with rbox. | 18:00 |
| balloons | just thought I'd ping, as I think you might like them. Since the upstream is other community folks within ubuntu, and the apps are in qml, the tests are much easier to write | 18:01 |
| disc0tech | I'm quite enjoying myself adding various mock items into the rbox tests at the moment :) | 18:01 |
| balloons | yes, I'm curious to see the end result | 18:01 |
| disc0tech | got it | 18:01 |
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk | ||
| senan | balloons, danchapman, hi | 18:33 |
| balloons | aloha | 18:33 |
| senan | balloons, work is hectic now a days..working more than 14hr per day :( | 18:34 |
| === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha | ||
| balloons | oO senan, hang in there :-) | 18:35 |
| senan | :( | 18:36 |
| senan | balloons, major release next month.. | 18:36 |
| DanChapman | hey senan | 18:39 |
| === bfiller is now known as bfiller_afk | ||
| dkessel | hmm i have to remote 'ubuntu-sdk' in order to upgrade my packages :/ | 18:52 |
| dkessel | nvm p opey helped me | 19:03 |
| balloons | elopio, did you find any issues with the toolkit and qt 5.2? | 19:23 |
| balloons | err well, the autopilot helper for the toolkit :) | 19:23 |
| elopio | balloons: one with the header and notes app, that's the one where I added a skip | 19:25 |
| elopio | and a weird autopilot or qml misunderstanding that makes an object change before it's clicked. | 19:25 |
| elopio | balloons: have you found something? | 19:26 |
| balloons | I'm just suddenly having trouble switching tabs | 19:28 |
| elopio | balloons: on what app? | 19:29 |
| balloons | elopio, calendar atm. I was thinking of running the testsuite to see if it still happens | 19:32 |
| balloons | elopio, I get dbus timeouts inside autopilot, or straight up crashes | 19:33 |
| elopio | balloons: I ran all the calendar tests yesterday, or the day before, as there were some failures. | 19:34 |
| elopio | but they started passing on the jenkins job and on my device. | 19:34 |
| elopio | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1291392 | 19:35 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1291392 in Ubuntu Calendar App "Two calendar-app AP tests failing with Qt 5.2" [Critical,Invalid] | 19:35 |
| elopio | I'm flashing right now. I'll be able to retry in ~20 minutes if the elders of the internet are good with me. | 19:36 |
| balloons | elopio, kk.. I'll keep digging | 19:40 |
| balloons | elopio, yes I'm working on an mp, and i see only one failure now | 19:40 |
| balloons | well before the tab switching issue | 19:40 |
| elfy | hi balloons | 19:40 |
| balloons | hi elfy | 19:44 |
| balloons | aloha letozaf | 20:00 |
| letozaf | balloons, hi | 20:01 |
| letozaf | balloons, I was reading the notes on mzanetti merge proposal for reminders app | 20:02 |
| balloons | ah yes he pushed something to help | 20:03 |
| balloons | https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/reminders-app/qmlfile-param/+merge/210891 | 20:03 |
| balloons | elopio, so things fail on the desktop for calendar, but the toolkit tests pass fine, so i'll dig into calendar as the potential source | 20:11 |
| === bfiller_afk is now known as bfiller | ||
| balloons | elopio, to see what i mean have a look: http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/1759/? | 20:45 |
| balloons | this is before; http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/1747/?. just the one failure at the end of the new event test | 20:46 |
| balloons | note, no code changes took place | 20:46 |
| knome | hey balloons | 20:46 |
| balloons | hey knome | 20:46 |
| balloons | how is your friday? | 20:46 |
| knome | busy ;) | 20:46 |
| knome | were shopping with wife, then had a two-hour sprint to get the xubuntu slideshow in shape | 20:47 |
| balloons | looking nice now I hope? | 20:47 |
| knome | better, will get it finished by tuesday, so will leave time nicely for a new upload before thursday :) | 20:47 |
| knome | and what's up in the QA world? | 20:47 |
| balloons | well, after vUDS I'm trying to ready plans for image testing in a few weeks, and doing a big drive to document things on d.u.c for app devs | 20:49 |
| knome | mhm | 20:49 |
| elfy | pffft - I've been fighting that battle since November | 20:49 |
| knome | i completely missed vUDS :P | 20:50 |
| balloons | yea, it came a little late | 20:50 |
| elfy | so did I | 20:50 |
| balloons | sessions are all recorded and all that | 20:51 |
| balloons | but yea, trying to spread some quality into app devs | 20:51 |
| knome | as if there was anything that was *really* interesting to xubuntu | 20:51 |
| knome | without taking anything off from the session, most of the things are unrelated and make no difference anyway | 20:52 |
| knome | those which do, well, the news will land to us sooner or later | 20:52 |
| knome | and i'd expect more than just vUDS sessions for bigger things :) | 20:52 |
| elfy | :) | 20:52 |
| balloons | heh.. it was an interesting vUDS I suppose | 20:52 |
| balloons | the mid-cycle meetups are interesting, but i;'m not sure how i feel about them | 20:53 |
| knome | mid-cycle? | 20:53 |
| knome | come on, we're past feature freeze, and it's soon beta 2 time | 20:53 |
| balloons | there was a session on vUDS itself. I kind of liked the idea rick mentioned about once a month, 1 day, focused sessions | 20:53 |
| balloons | knome, right, it's really akward | 20:54 |
| balloons | however, that idea didn't float, so :-) | 20:54 |
| knome | it would be a better time to meet with a team internally | 20:54 |
| knome | but i guess that's a lot what vUDS is for canonical people... | 20:54 |
| balloons | well, it's nice because it gets communication out to everyone, and anyone interested can follow along | 20:54 |
| balloons | plus, we don't plan full cycles of work much anymore | 20:55 |
| balloons | anyways, it was also dicussed about vUDS being only for devs, and others are a bit sidelined | 20:56 |
| knome | hmph, but what's the point to communicate out when it's really late already? | 20:56 |
| balloons | they suggested changes to open it up next time | 20:56 |
| knome | the "real" UDS's were much to devs as well | 20:56 |
| balloons | knome, well there's a lot of stuff going on | 20:56 |
| knome | i'd expect the major things to have been planned by now | 20:56 |
| balloons | meaning, if i only talked to you once every 6 months things can change | 20:56 |
| knome | and not need any specific communicating | 20:56 |
| balloons | well most of it was looking forward | 20:57 |
| knome | except to people who are interested, who can follow appropriate mailing lists etc. | 20:57 |
| balloons | we won't meet after trusty | 20:57 |
| knome | that's weird. | 20:57 |
| balloons | I'm stating fact, not opinion | 20:58 |
| knome | fact on what? :) | 20:58 |
| balloons | they are 3 month cycles, with no relation to release | 20:58 |
| balloons | vUDS | 20:58 |
| knome | yeah... | 20:58 |
| knome | and that's weird to me | 20:59 |
| balloons | yep.. | 20:59 |
| knome | they should have relation to release | 20:59 |
| balloons | me too my friend | 20:59 |
| knome | UDS had a strong relation | 20:59 |
| knome | now they replace it with vUDS | 20:59 |
| knome | and make it something completely different? | 20:59 |
| balloons | I don't think that was the intent | 20:59 |
| balloons | the intent was to meet more often, it's simply shifted timing for whatever reason | 20:59 |
| knome | i try to have faith and believe that's the case, but if it is, and things have gone wrong, why not fix it? | 20:59 |
| balloons | that was part of the session methinks | 21:00 |
| knome | yeah, hard to comment on what was discussed there | 21:00 |
| balloons | i missed part of it too, so . . . | 21:00 |
| balloons | we'll see what happens next | 21:01 |
| knome | but the reality is that as long as vUDS is useful for canonical employees, it's going to do just fine | 21:01 |
| balloons | I wouldn't say it's useful for canonical employees | 21:01 |
| balloons | speaking personally | 21:01 |
| knome | well, you're not a dev | 21:01 |
| knome | maybe i should say "canonical developers" | 21:01 |
| balloons | if the goal was to talk amongst a dev group, there should be simpler ways | 21:01 |
| knome | there is... IRC channels | 21:02 |
| knome | you can have daily discussions | 21:02 |
| knome | there are mailing lists | 21:02 |
| balloons | right-o.. so if that was the only thing in contention, vUDS wouldn't exist | 21:02 |
| knome | note, i try not to sound bitter, or against anybody here | 21:02 |
| balloons | not at all, no worries :) | 21:02 |
| knome | but sometimes it has felt like (v)UDS is a public forum, where "everybody can participate", but actual decisions are still made by the core people | 21:03 |
| knome | and i think the virtual event actually makes people more disconnected than the live UDS | 21:04 |
| knome | sure, not all could come to attend the live event, but once they were there, it was easier to get involved | 21:04 |
| knome | now the thresold to jump into a hangout is bigger | 21:04 |
| balloons | yes, people feel anxious about joining hangouts, who might otherwise have joined a circle discussion | 21:04 |
| knome | and it's harder to get questions answered if you're not on the hangout | 21:05 |
| balloons | they shouldn't persay, but it's there | 21:05 |
| elfy | s/harder/almost impossible | 21:05 |
| elfy | just the same as in the old days | 21:05 |
| balloons | I mean you can go in audio only, etc.. IRC works for questions I think | 21:05 |
| balloons | but discussion doesn't work IRC -- hangout | 21:05 |
| knome | balloons, yes, but the hangout leader(s) should read those messages... | 21:05 |
| elfy | balloons: only if someone bothers to read the IRC stuff instead of watching a video | 21:06 |
| knome | which didn't happen in all vUDS sessions i was in | 21:06 |
| elfy | nor any I've been in | 21:06 |
| balloons | in the sessions I'm in, questions are treated well.. but, as I said, I think the bigger issue isn't a question, it's trying to discuss | 21:06 |
| elfy | or if they do - then it's too late | 21:06 |
| knome | yeah, it's so cool to watch pleia2's cat walk on the screen that people forget that somebody not on their audio/video might have a question ;) | 21:06 |
| balloons | course, if I'm in them, I watch irc, so | 21:06 |
| knome | balloons, i'm not saying that's a problem of vUDS, it's a problem of session leaders | 21:07 |
| elfy | you might ;) | 21:07 |
| knome | well... if people had the motivation, somebody on the session could act as an "announcer" | 21:07 |
| knome | that meaning, saying this others wrote on the channel | 21:07 |
| knome | of course it's slower than just audio-audio | 21:07 |
| knome | but hey, you took the event online! | 21:08 |
| knome | you knew that was coming. | 21:08 |
| balloons | knome, yea I tried to repeat questions before answering but surely didn't | 21:14 |
| balloons | it's hard without a dedicated notetaker and announcer as you said | 21:15 |
| balloons | in general my worry is disccusion doesn't happen unless you are in the fishbowl, aka hangout | 21:15 |
| balloons | so the hangouts feel like echo chambers | 21:15 |
| knome | exactly my thoughts | 21:15 |
| balloons | even shy folks @ UDS would discuss things and contribute.. even when i was alone in the fishbowl | 21:16 |
| balloons | last UDS I had a few sessions I did alone, with only folks on IRC and me on video | 21:16 |
| balloons | it's a horrible experience | 21:16 |
| knome | and the reason why i have thought that it is just a public place to "participate", but actually the core people make the decisions anyway | 21:16 |
| balloons | this time none of that, but ... | 21:16 |
| balloons | well, the point is these decisions aren;t meant to be in a vaccum.. and I suppose you are right mailing list threads end up being better for discussing than live if folks won't join in | 21:17 |
| knome | yeah, or even if people join... | 21:18 |
| knome | i mean it's good that people have planned and prepared the sessions | 21:19 |
| knome | but many times it feels like the decisions are already made | 21:19 |
| knome | if you know what i mean | 21:19 |
| knome | so the vUDS session just works as a "community stamp", where being quiet means approving... | 21:19 |
| knome | which is obviously wrong | 21:19 |
| balloons | yea... any ideas for a solution? | 21:20 |
| knome | not really | 21:20 |
| knome | the fact is, | 21:20 |
| knome | some of the decisions aren't for the community to make | 21:20 |
| knome | and maybe that should be communicated more clearly | 21:20 |
| knome | that is, per decision | 21:21 |
| balloons | not every decision is open for full debate. As you know a meritocracy isn't mob rule so to speak | 21:21 |
| knome | i'm also talking about canonical vs. community decisions | 21:22 |
| knome | some things will land, regardless of merit in the community | 21:22 |
| balloons | I mean i make no distinction on the person or group making the decision. if they are taking care of the system/package/platform within the echosystem, they are the ones driving decisions | 21:22 |
| knome | absolutely. | 21:22 |
| * balloons laughs that knome rules with an iron fist | 21:22 | |
| knome | well i do... ;> | 21:23 |
| knome | i guess the other question is, "do we really need to take this discussion public" | 21:23 |
| dkessel | good evening. good discussion! | 21:23 |
| knome | rather than set up a "fake" public discussion prone to people whining about the decision without merit, why not prepare it well in advance, and plan *good* communication/news about it | 21:24 |
| knome | that's what has made many people in the community angry during the last years | 21:24 |
| knome | even (old) "core" members | 21:24 |
| knome | bad communication from canonical | 21:24 |
| knome | not being clear what is debatable and what is not | 21:24 |
| knome | landing stuff too late | 21:24 |
| knome | not always considering effects to other teams | 21:25 |
| balloons | so reading it on omg might be perferable? | 21:26 |
| knome | even a vUDS that was scheduled in a better place would help a lot with that | 21:26 |
| knome | no, | 21:26 |
| dkessel | I have one question. before the vUDSes, were there better notes from the sessions? Because that too is a problem I believe. I have to watch an entire hour of video to find out what was discussed. | 21:26 |
| knome | reading it come from canonical well in advance, with argumentation, is better than it landing in the archive | 21:26 |
| knome | dkessel, depends much on the session | 21:27 |
| balloons | mm, yea definitely depends | 21:27 |
| knome | if a session had a "secretary", they were good | 21:27 |
| knome | if not, it was just as good as an internal meeting | 21:27 |
| balloons | well gents I have got to run, dinner date with wife, truly I'd rather stay and chat | 21:27 |
| dkessel | enjoy, balloons | 21:28 |
| knome | balloons, have fun, tell her you love her, and come back on monday to discuss this with us :) | 21:28 |
| balloons | knome, I appreciate the feedback | 21:28 |
| balloons | hehe.. if we can arrive at a proposal for change, we can present and discuss it | 21:28 |
| balloons | i know folks agree with the sentitment.. it's fixing it. and indeed the desire for vUDS is to be open, communicative, etc, etc | 21:29 |
| balloons | ubuntu is unique in that regard, and I think folks hold us to a higher standard for it | 21:29 |
| balloons | which isn't a bad thing at all | 21:29 |
| balloons | hey dkessel | 21:29 |
| knome | it's hard to say what the community at large needs from a vUDS... it's hard to imagine how it could be useful for the xubuntu team | 21:29 |
| knome | because what *we* need more is more daily communication with people, and getting to know them | 21:29 |
| dkessel | yes balloons ? | 21:30 |
| knome | real-life UDS helped with getting to know people | 21:30 |
| knome | there is no hallway chats or beer-evenings in vUDS | 21:30 |
| balloons | dkessel, ohh, you said enjoy.. I thought you said hello | 21:30 |
| balloons | ty I will enjoy | 21:30 |
| dkessel | 😊 | 21:30 |
| balloons | yep, all good points knome.. we'll pick up again next time we're both around | 21:30 |
| knome | yep | 21:30 |
| balloons | you know where to find me, hah! | 21:31 |
| knome | heh, i do | 21:31 |
| knome | balloons, for reading, when you have time, before i forget and/or if it's a long time we speak again: http://open.knome.fi/2013/03/04/is-uds-no-longer-uds/ | 21:31 |
| knome | balloons, year old, and before the first vUDS, but most of that are still valid points | 21:31 |
| dkessel | knome, wow... long post ;) but I have to say I agree with many things. you also wrote about how canonical said they would review the new format after two vUDS events. so let's see if they will. | 21:47 |
| knome | two events went a long time ago... nothing changed | 21:48 |
| knome | dkessel, yeah, a long post, but also a long preparation, i think i had that boiling for almost a week, and consulted *many* people | 21:48 |
| knome | to try to be objective, and to the point, and not say untrue things | 21:48 |
| dkessel | oh right two events not cycles my mistake | 21:49 |
| knome | from what i've seen, the surveys jono did were as useful as nothing | 21:50 |
| knome | http://open.knome.fi/2011/11/09/canonical-community-collaboration/ | 21:51 |
| knome | = almost longer comments than post itself, and many ;) | 21:51 |
| elopio | balloons: I can't see the icons of the calendar toolbar, but I can't get it to crash as it's doing there | 21:52 |
| elopio | ah, didier said we should dist-upgrade the image 237. | 21:58 |
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