=== stgraber_ is now known as stgraber === _salem is now known as salem_ === salem_ is now known as _salem [03:04] I'm trying to run this testcase http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/312/builds/63606/testcases/1310/results but after following steps 1-3 it only allows me to upgrade to 12.10 not 14.04 (I'm running 12.04 in a VM) [03:05] Do I need to allow pre-release updates? [07:53] good morning [08:15] good morning all [08:26] good morning DanChapman [08:28] hi dkessel DanChapman [10:08] Morning all === _salem is now known as salem_ [13:40] balloons, are you able to login to wiki.ubuntu.com ? It times out on me waiting for my OpenID. [13:42] cgoldberg: works for me [13:42] elfy, weird. i'll try logging out of LP and clearing browser cache [13:45] heh.. that worked.. logged in now [13:51] cgoldberg, :_) sometimes ff gets weird with ubuntu sso [13:51] * dpniel waves to the room from grouper [13:52] Hey balloons [13:52] o/ dpniel [13:52] hey dpniel [13:52] ohh nice! how's the irc client? [13:52] hey cgoldberg [13:53] balloons: finally got channel lists working, been a bit of a pain [14:03] pm's working? [14:05] balloons: not atm should be soon though :-) === bfiller is now known as bfiller_afk [15:24] balloons DanChapman - revised MP now awaiting attention for fileroller... [15:25] disc0tech, happy friday to you [15:25] you too [15:28] so https://code.launchpad.net/~adam-disc0tech/ubuntu-autopilot-tests/fileroller/+merge/211072 [15:30] ok so disc0tech in the _patch_home, you don't need the silliness with the length 25 temp dir [15:30] you can just make a temp folder and use it [15:31] otherwise this looks like a nice improvement at first glance [15:31] I wondered what all that was about [15:31] will remove :) [15:31] :-) it was something specific for music app needs.. [15:38] pushed, back to rbox... === bfiller_afk is now known as bfiller === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha [17:57] disc0tech, I approved.. have you ever thought about writing tests for the core apps? [17:57] Do you have a list of apps considered "core"? [17:58] disc0tech, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps/ [17:58] ah, for the touch? [17:58] disc0tech, basically it's the community "core apps", meaning apps for the ubuntu phablet images [17:58] yep [17:59] I will probably wait until I have a supported device before I do anything on touch. [18:00] most folks just hack and write them on our desktops, so don't feel like you need a device [18:00] they run fine on the desktop [18:00] Sure, might take a look once I've finished with rbox. [18:01] just thought I'd ping, as I think you might like them. Since the upstream is other community folks within ubuntu, and the apps are in qml, the tests are much easier to write [18:01] I'm quite enjoying myself adding various mock items into the rbox tests at the moment :) [18:01] yes, I'm curious to see the end result [18:01] got it === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha === Ursinha is now known as Ursinha-afk [18:33] balloons, danchapman, hi [18:33] aloha [18:34] balloons, work is hectic now a days..working more than 14hr per day :( === Ursinha-afk is now known as Ursinha [18:35] oO senan, hang in there :-) [18:36] :( [18:36] balloons, major release next month.. [18:39] hey senan === bfiller is now known as bfiller_afk [18:52] hmm i have to remote 'ubuntu-sdk' in order to upgrade my packages :/ [19:03] nvm p opey helped me [19:23] elopio, did you find any issues with the toolkit and qt 5.2? [19:23] err well, the autopilot helper for the toolkit :) [19:25] balloons: one with the header and notes app, that's the one where I added a skip [19:25] and a weird autopilot or qml misunderstanding that makes an object change before it's clicked. [19:26] balloons: have you found something? [19:28] I'm just suddenly having trouble switching tabs [19:29] balloons: on what app? [19:32] elopio, calendar atm. I was thinking of running the testsuite to see if it still happens [19:33] elopio, I get dbus timeouts inside autopilot, or straight up crashes [19:34] balloons: I ran all the calendar tests yesterday, or the day before, as there were some failures. [19:34] but they started passing on the jenkins job and on my device. [19:35] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/1291392 [19:35] Ubuntu bug 1291392 in Ubuntu Calendar App "Two calendar-app AP tests failing with Qt 5.2" [Critical,Invalid] [19:36] I'm flashing right now. I'll be able to retry in ~20 minutes if the elders of the internet are good with me. [19:40] elopio, kk.. I'll keep digging [19:40] elopio, yes I'm working on an mp, and i see only one failure now [19:40] well before the tab switching issue [19:40] hi balloons [19:44] hi elfy [20:00] aloha letozaf [20:01] balloons, hi [20:02] balloons, I was reading the notes on mzanetti merge proposal for reminders app [20:03] ah yes he pushed something to help [20:03] https://code.launchpad.net/~mzanetti/reminders-app/qmlfile-param/+merge/210891 [20:11] elopio, so things fail on the desktop for calendar, but the toolkit tests pass fine, so i'll dig into calendar as the potential source === bfiller_afk is now known as bfiller [20:45] elopio, to see what i mean have a look: http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/1759/? [20:46] this is before; http://91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/1747/?. just the one failure at the end of the new event test [20:46] note, no code changes took place [20:46] hey balloons [20:46] hey knome [20:46] how is your friday? [20:46] busy ;) [20:47] were shopping with wife, then had a two-hour sprint to get the xubuntu slideshow in shape [20:47] looking nice now I hope? [20:47] better, will get it finished by tuesday, so will leave time nicely for a new upload before thursday :) [20:47] and what's up in the QA world? [20:49] well, after vUDS I'm trying to ready plans for image testing in a few weeks, and doing a big drive to document things on d.u.c for app devs [20:49] mhm [20:49] pffft - I've been fighting that battle since November [20:50] i completely missed vUDS :P [20:50] yea, it came a little late [20:50] so did I [20:51] sessions are all recorded and all that [20:51] but yea, trying to spread some quality into app devs [20:51] as if there was anything that was *really* interesting to xubuntu [20:52] without taking anything off from the session, most of the things are unrelated and make no difference anyway [20:52] those which do, well, the news will land to us sooner or later [20:52] and i'd expect more than just vUDS sessions for bigger things :) [20:52] :) [20:52] heh.. it was an interesting vUDS I suppose [20:53] the mid-cycle meetups are interesting, but i;'m not sure how i feel about them [20:53] mid-cycle? [20:53] come on, we're past feature freeze, and it's soon beta 2 time [20:53] there was a session on vUDS itself. I kind of liked the idea rick mentioned about once a month, 1 day, focused sessions [20:54] knome, right, it's really akward [20:54] however, that idea didn't float, so :-) [20:54] it would be a better time to meet with a team internally [20:54] but i guess that's a lot what vUDS is for canonical people... [20:54] well, it's nice because it gets communication out to everyone, and anyone interested can follow along [20:55] plus, we don't plan full cycles of work much anymore [20:56] anyways, it was also dicussed about vUDS being only for devs, and others are a bit sidelined [20:56] hmph, but what's the point to communicate out when it's really late already? [20:56] they suggested changes to open it up next time [20:56] the "real" UDS's were much to devs as well [20:56] knome, well there's a lot of stuff going on [20:56] i'd expect the major things to have been planned by now [20:56] meaning, if i only talked to you once every 6 months things can change [20:56] and not need any specific communicating [20:57] well most of it was looking forward [20:57] except to people who are interested, who can follow appropriate mailing lists etc. [20:57] we won't meet after trusty [20:57] that's weird. [20:58] I'm stating fact, not opinion [20:58] fact on what? :) [20:58] they are 3 month cycles, with no relation to release [20:58] vUDS [20:58] yeah... [20:59] and that's weird to me [20:59] yep.. [20:59] they should have relation to release [20:59] me too my friend [20:59] UDS had a strong relation [20:59] now they replace it with vUDS [20:59] and make it something completely different? [20:59] I don't think that was the intent [20:59] the intent was to meet more often, it's simply shifted timing for whatever reason [20:59] i try to have faith and believe that's the case, but if it is, and things have gone wrong, why not fix it? [21:00] that was part of the session methinks [21:00] yeah, hard to comment on what was discussed there [21:00] i missed part of it too, so . . . [21:01] we'll see what happens next [21:01] but the reality is that as long as vUDS is useful for canonical employees, it's going to do just fine [21:01] I wouldn't say it's useful for canonical employees [21:01] speaking personally [21:01] well, you're not a dev [21:01] maybe i should say "canonical developers" [21:01] if the goal was to talk amongst a dev group, there should be simpler ways [21:02] there is... IRC channels [21:02] you can have daily discussions [21:02] there are mailing lists [21:02] right-o.. so if that was the only thing in contention, vUDS wouldn't exist [21:02] note, i try not to sound bitter, or against anybody here [21:02] not at all, no worries :) [21:03] but sometimes it has felt like (v)UDS is a public forum, where "everybody can participate", but actual decisions are still made by the core people [21:04] and i think the virtual event actually makes people more disconnected than the live UDS [21:04] sure, not all could come to attend the live event, but once they were there, it was easier to get involved [21:04] now the thresold to jump into a hangout is bigger [21:04] yes, people feel anxious about joining hangouts, who might otherwise have joined a circle discussion [21:05] and it's harder to get questions answered if you're not on the hangout [21:05] they shouldn't persay, but it's there [21:05] s/harder/almost impossible [21:05] just the same as in the old days [21:05] I mean you can go in audio only, etc.. IRC works for questions I think [21:05] but discussion doesn't work IRC -- hangout [21:05] balloons, yes, but the hangout leader(s) should read those messages... [21:06] balloons: only if someone bothers to read the IRC stuff instead of watching a video [21:06] which didn't happen in all vUDS sessions i was in [21:06] nor any I've been in [21:06] in the sessions I'm in, questions are treated well.. but, as I said, I think the bigger issue isn't a question, it's trying to discuss [21:06] or if they do - then it's too late [21:06] yeah, it's so cool to watch pleia2's cat walk on the screen that people forget that somebody not on their audio/video might have a question ;) [21:06] course, if I'm in them, I watch irc, so [21:07] balloons, i'm not saying that's a problem of vUDS, it's a problem of session leaders [21:07] you might ;) [21:07] well... if people had the motivation, somebody on the session could act as an "announcer" [21:07] that meaning, saying this others wrote on the channel [21:07] of course it's slower than just audio-audio [21:08] but hey, you took the event online! [21:08] you knew that was coming. [21:14] knome, yea I tried to repeat questions before answering but surely didn't [21:15] it's hard without a dedicated notetaker and announcer as you said [21:15] in general my worry is disccusion doesn't happen unless you are in the fishbowl, aka hangout [21:15] so the hangouts feel like echo chambers [21:15] exactly my thoughts [21:16] even shy folks @ UDS would discuss things and contribute.. even when i was alone in the fishbowl [21:16] last UDS I had a few sessions I did alone, with only folks on IRC and me on video [21:16] it's a horrible experience [21:16] and the reason why i have thought that it is just a public place to "participate", but actually the core people make the decisions anyway [21:16] this time none of that, but ... [21:17] well, the point is these decisions aren;t meant to be in a vaccum.. and I suppose you are right mailing list threads end up being better for discussing than live if folks won't join in [21:18] yeah, or even if people join... [21:19] i mean it's good that people have planned and prepared the sessions [21:19] but many times it feels like the decisions are already made [21:19] if you know what i mean [21:19] so the vUDS session just works as a "community stamp", where being quiet means approving... [21:19] which is obviously wrong [21:20] yea... any ideas for a solution? [21:20] not really [21:20] the fact is, [21:20] some of the decisions aren't for the community to make [21:20] and maybe that should be communicated more clearly [21:21] that is, per decision [21:21] not every decision is open for full debate. As you know a meritocracy isn't mob rule so to speak [21:22] i'm also talking about canonical vs. community decisions [21:22] some things will land, regardless of merit in the community [21:22] I mean i make no distinction on the person or group making the decision. if they are taking care of the system/package/platform within the echosystem, they are the ones driving decisions [21:22] absolutely. [21:22] * balloons laughs that knome rules with an iron fist [21:23] well i do... ;> [21:23] i guess the other question is, "do we really need to take this discussion public" [21:23] good evening. good discussion! [21:24] rather than set up a "fake" public discussion prone to people whining about the decision without merit, why not prepare it well in advance, and plan *good* communication/news about it [21:24] that's what has made many people in the community angry during the last years [21:24] even (old) "core" members [21:24] bad communication from canonical [21:24] not being clear what is debatable and what is not [21:24] landing stuff too late [21:25] not always considering effects to other teams [21:26] so reading it on omg might be perferable? [21:26] even a vUDS that was scheduled in a better place would help a lot with that [21:26] no, [21:26] I have one question. before the vUDSes, were there better notes from the sessions? Because that too is a problem I believe. I have to watch an entire hour of video to find out what was discussed. [21:26] reading it come from canonical well in advance, with argumentation, is better than it landing in the archive [21:27] dkessel, depends much on the session [21:27] mm, yea definitely depends [21:27] if a session had a "secretary", they were good [21:27] if not, it was just as good as an internal meeting [21:27] well gents I have got to run, dinner date with wife, truly I'd rather stay and chat [21:28] enjoy, balloons [21:28] balloons, have fun, tell her you love her, and come back on monday to discuss this with us :) [21:28] knome, I appreciate the feedback [21:28] hehe.. if we can arrive at a proposal for change, we can present and discuss it [21:29] i know folks agree with the sentitment.. it's fixing it. and indeed the desire for vUDS is to be open, communicative, etc, etc [21:29] ubuntu is unique in that regard, and I think folks hold us to a higher standard for it [21:29] which isn't a bad thing at all [21:29] hey dkessel [21:29] it's hard to say what the community at large needs from a vUDS... it's hard to imagine how it could be useful for the xubuntu team [21:29] because what *we* need more is more daily communication with people, and getting to know them [21:30] yes balloons ? [21:30] real-life UDS helped with getting to know people [21:30] there is no hallway chats or beer-evenings in vUDS [21:30] dkessel, ohh, you said enjoy.. I thought you said hello [21:30] ty I will enjoy [21:30] 😊 [21:30] yep, all good points knome.. we'll pick up again next time we're both around [21:30] yep [21:31] you know where to find me, hah! [21:31] heh, i do [21:31] balloons, for reading, when you have time, before i forget and/or if it's a long time we speak again: http://open.knome.fi/2013/03/04/is-uds-no-longer-uds/ [21:31] balloons, year old, and before the first vUDS, but most of that are still valid points [21:47] knome, wow... long post ;) but I have to say I agree with many things. you also wrote about how canonical said they would review the new format after two vUDS events. so let's see if they will. [21:48] two events went a long time ago... nothing changed [21:48] dkessel, yeah, a long post, but also a long preparation, i think i had that boiling for almost a week, and consulted *many* people [21:48] to try to be objective, and to the point, and not say untrue things [21:49] oh right two events not cycles my mistake [21:50] from what i've seen, the surveys jono did were as useful as nothing [21:51] http://open.knome.fi/2011/11/09/canonical-community-collaboration/ [21:51] = almost longer comments than post itself, and many ;) [21:52] balloons: I can't see the icons of the calendar toolbar, but I can't get it to crash as it's doing there [21:58] ah, didier said we should dist-upgrade the image 237. === salem_ is now known as _salem === e11bits_ is now known as e11bits === yofel_ is now known as yofel === knome_ is now known as knome === Daviey_ is now known as Daviey