| rick_h_ | applications for GSoC starting to roll in. Man this is going to be so hard to pick 2 | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| mrgoodcat | lol did you see Hubert? | 01:50 |
| mrgoodcat | little late to the party | 01:50 |
| mrgoodcat | i almost feel bad | 02:01 |
| mrgoodcat | .func | 02:29 |
| bookiebot | Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex> | 02:29 |
| mrgoodcat | .help func | 02:29 |
| bookiebot | Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex> | 02:29 |
| mrgoodcat | .help list | 02:29 |
| bookiebot | no docs for command | 02:29 |
| mrgoodcat | .help | 02:29 |
| bookiebot | echo func help list pull relist sleep | 02:29 |
| mrgoodcat | .help asdf | 02:29 |
| bookiebot | no such command | 02:29 |
| cmaloney | jcastro: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/15/windows_desktop_and_laptop_market_share_dips_below_90_per_cent | 02:37 |
| cmaloney | About the only thing I got wrong in our bet was the timeframe. ;) | 02:37 |
| cmaloney | That and not counting iOS. :) | 02:37 |
| mrgoodcat | below 90% | 02:38 |
| mrgoodcat | i like how below 90% is considered a huge problem | 02:38 |
| cmaloney | Our bet was Mac marketshare at 10% | 02:38 |
| mrgoodcat | everyone else considers that a monopoly | 02:38 |
| cmaloney | morning | 09:59 |
| cmaloney | ugh | 09:59 |
| rick_h_ | morning | 12:11 |
| rick_h_ | and +1 ugh, but got to sleep in a bit so yay | 12:12 |
| brousch | Just a bit? | 12:14 |
| cmaloney | Yeh, acc. to the fitbit I got 5h30m sleep | 12:15 |
| mrgoodcat | morning | 12:35 |
| mrgoodcat | rick_h_: how was GR? | 12:35 |
| brousch | GR is awesome with every metric you choose | 12:44 |
| rick_h_ | mrgoodcat: good stuff. Parking was meh but we had a good day | 12:45 |
| mrgoodcat | brousch: are you from gr? | 12:46 |
| brousch | West MI in general | 12:47 |
| mrgoodcat | i'll agree with you all day on that | 12:47 |
| brousch | rick_h_: I've never seen that parking ramp full except during ArtPrize and museum new exhibit openings. It was really odd for it to be so busy on the 3rd weekend | 12:48 |
| mrgoodcat | i love traverse city, kalamazoo, and grand rapids | 12:48 |
| rick_h_ | woot! pocket casts now with chromecast support | 13:06 |
| rick_h_ | <3 the world we live in | 13:07 |
| mrgoodcat | chromecast ias been really bad to me | 13:08 |
| rick_h_ | why so? The only issue I find is that the chrome extention has to be disabled/enabled every so often as it loses the connection to the chromecast | 13:08 |
| brousch | mrgoodcat: Did it kill your good cat? | 13:08 |
| mrgoodcat | i had a really hard time with initial setup | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | and occasionally it will lose connection to my wifi | 13:09 |
| brousch | It has worked very well for me | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | the chromecast extension is total garbage | 13:09 |
| brousch | But i use it almost exclusively from Android | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | and the sound cuts out occasionally | 13:10 |
| mrgoodcat | i use it exclusively from android and chrome os | 13:10 |
| mrgoodcat | you would think it would work the best | 13:10 |
| mrgoodcat | it just feels like a beta product | 13:10 |
| brousch | Also I basically just use netflix and youtube | 13:10 |
| mrgoodcat | youtube is the worst for sound cut out | 13:10 |
| mrgoodcat | i use it for netflix, youtube, and google play movies | 13:11 |
| brousch | I've had no sound problems | 13:12 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: How far away from your wifi is the Chromecast? | 13:12 |
| brousch | Played 2 different 1.5 hour long youtube videos yesterday | 13:12 |
| mrgoodcat | about 20 feet | 13:12 |
| mrgoodcat | accross the same room | 13:12 |
| mrgoodcat | line of sight | 13:13 |
| brousch | N? | 13:13 |
| mrgoodcat | yup | 13:13 |
| mrgoodcat | i even switched routers | 13:13 |
| mrgoodcat | i have a netgear r6300 right now | 13:13 |
| mrgoodcat | but i had a belkin before | 13:13 |
| brousch | does it go through the TV to get to the router? | 13:14 |
| mrgoodcat | sort of but not really. its on an angle | 13:15 |
| mrgoodcat | about 45 degrees | 13:16 |
| cmaloney | Trying duplicity again for local backup. | 14:07 |
| cmaloney | I think the biggest problem I have is trying to backup 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag. | 14:07 |
| cmaloney | But did decide to turn off journaling on the backup drive as I think it was rather unnecessary. | 14:08 |
| mrgoodcat | duplicity is actually really good | 14:21 |
| mrgoodcat | rick_h_ has the patience of a saint | 14:22 |
| mrgoodcat | no way i could be a GSoC mentor | 14:22 |
| mrgoodcat | not that i believe anyone would actually want me to mentor them | 14:23 |
| mrgoodcat | meanwhile on the set of Ocean's fourteen http://bit.ly/1md2O9A | 14:30 |
| jrwren | rick_h_ is a manager. You can call him Mister Manager. | 15:14 |
| rick_h_ | huh? I'd not recommend it :P | 15:14 |
| cmaloney | my only problem with Duplicity is it takes forever to complete | 15:19 |
| rick_h_ | cmaloney: my first sync to my NAS took 4 days | 15:20 |
| rick_h_ | it's what it takes to start a backup | 15:20 |
| cmaloney | rdiff-backup is much quicker | 15:20 |
| cmaloney | but it also tends to lunch itself if the dest volume fills up | 15:21 |
| greg-g | obnam! | 15:21 |
| cmaloney | which seems to happen to me if I use VBox. The image files change enough to make things not want to work right | 15:21 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: obnam is fine save for a few problems: | 15:21 |
| cmaloney | 1) I've never seen it finish. | 15:22 |
| cmaloney | 2) See above. | 15:22 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: finishes for me | 15:22 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: did you follow the guide and start with a subset? | 15:23 |
| greg-g | obnam backup $HOME/somesubdir | 15:23 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: I had one version when I tried it that was completely borked. | 15:23 |
| cmaloney | No, I tried the whole hog | 15:23 |
| * greg-g shrugs | 15:23 | |
| greg-g | works great for me | 15:23 |
| cmaloney | It was before 1.0 released. | 15:23 |
| greg-g | a incremental now takes about 10 minutes | 15:23 |
| greg-g | speed isn't it's strong point, though | 15:24 |
| cmaloney | Right. I need something that's a little quicker than Obnam | 15:24 |
| cmaloney | also space efficient | 15:24 |
| greg-g | obnam does dedup | 15:24 |
| cmaloney | also: could be conflating obnam with duplicity. | 15:25 |
| greg-g | heh | 15:25 |
| greg-g | I don't know the others too well anymore | 15:25 |
| greg-g | other than "rsync" | 15:25 |
| greg-g | ;) | 15:25 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, rsync is awesome | 15:25 |
| cmaloney | I swear if rsync stopped working I think I'd seriously have to consider not jumping off of a bridge. | 15:25 |
| greg-g | if you don't want versioning, it Just Works | 15:25 |
| cmaloney | I used to use rsnapshot. Liked it a lot but rdiff-backup was more efficient | 15:26 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: you made me chuckle out loud in the office: https://twitter.com/shmcmahon/status/445329656602820608 | 15:29 |
| rick_h_ | such great stuff http://docs.python.org/3.4/whatsnew/3.4.html | 15:29 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: <3 | 15:29 |
| jrwren | time to move to python3 | 15:31 |
| jrwren | rsync isn't backups. | 15:31 |
| jrwren | if you delete a file, and rsync runs and deletes the synced files, you cannot recover. | 15:31 |
| jrwren | or rather... rsync MIGHT be a backup - if you have a stupid recovery specification | 15:32 |
| greg-g | jrwren: that | 15:32 |
| rick_h_ | well, there's different kinds of backups. Full versioning isn't always necessary and if you don't do -e you can rsync and keep old files around | 15:32 |
| rick_h_ | but they're the latest version | 15:32 |
| rick_h_ | and you are backing up multiple locations right? | 15:32 |
| greg-g | I've been bitten by the "new version wasn't right" bug | 15:32 |
| jrwren | i like to say - there is no such thing as backups. There is only restores. | 15:32 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: yea, but that's another level of 'data lost' | 15:33 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: Deep maaaaaaaan | 15:33 |
| greg-g | luckily I could go through git-annex's previous versions | 15:33 |
| jrwren | tar -cf - / >/dev/null # is a backup | 15:33 |
| cmaloney | OK, I do not like git annex. | 15:33 |
| cmaloney | I tried it for my book collection and hated it | 15:33 |
| jrwren | i neither like nor dislike git annex. | 15:33 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: which part? | 15:33 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: The "files are not real files" part. | 15:33 |
| cmaloney | the "syncing takes longer than rsync" part | 15:34 |
| greg-g | ah, so, "git-annex direct" will make you happy | 15:34 |
| cmaloney | the "holy shit I think I just did something stupid and now I have to restore from backup" part. | 15:34 |
| cmaloney | that part. | 15:34 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: there's this pattern I see in you: you want speed at the expense of well written software that guards against data loss ;) | 15:34 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: Point | 15:35 |
| greg-g | but seriously, git-annex direct makes the files real files, but you loss a ton of git-annex's safe guarding | 15:35 |
| cmaloney | I think the main part was I didn't understand what it made it tick | 15:35 |
| cmaloney | and that ultimately wasn't what I had in mind. | 15:35 |
| greg-g | http://git-annex.branchable.com/direct_mode/ | 15:35 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, familiar with it | 15:36 |
| cmaloney | but what I really wanted (in this case) was a way to sync my books to my laptop | 15:36 |
| greg-g | yeah, I've gotten to the point where I know how it works (mostly, not all) and thus I grok it, and when grok something, you love something ;) | 15:36 |
| cmaloney | and rsync does that nicely | 15:36 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS516maqfAg woot looks like it's up | 15:37 |
| greg-g | w00t! | 15:38 |
| rick_h_ | it's a talk I should try to give again. I could use a few iterations on it. | 15:39 |
| * greg-g is listening | 15:42 | |
| mrgoodcat | lol i love the description | 15:44 |
| mrgoodcat | "he's been a team lead for about 10 minutes" | 15:44 |
| cmaloney | ;) | 15:44 |
| rick_h_ | talk the talk with a giant salt lick | 15:45 |
| mrgoodcat | and a shot of tequila | 15:51 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: when are your daily standups? time of day? where does your team live? | 15:56 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: so ours is 11am est. We have folks in italy, EDT, and mountain time in CO and Canada | 15:56 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: so 9am for the western folks, after lunch for guy in italy | 15:57 |
| * greg-g nods | 15:57 | |
| greg-g | we have a senior dev in Australia | 15:57 |
| greg-g | kinda fucks everything over | 15:57 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: yea, we've got a design guy in AU. So I'll meet with him at night as needed and we tend to have more of a weekly catchup with him | 15:58 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: but we track his work on the board | 15:58 |
| * greg-g nods | 15:58 | |
| greg-g | rick_h_: slides with links to your boards? (sorry for interrupting, but you're a manager now, you HAVE to multitask) | 16:03 |
| greg-g | :P | 16:03 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: :P | 16:03 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: the big work board isn't publicly avail | 16:03 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: I'd be happy to do a hangout/screenshare if you want a walk through/questions | 16:03 |
| rick_h_ | but it's behind a login | 16:03 |
| * greg-g nods | 16:04 | |
| greg-g | understandable | 16:04 |
| rick_h_ | https://trello.com/b/jXSwmBMC/bookie | 16:04 |
| rick_h_ | and shared the slides doc with you | 16:04 |
| greg-g | ty sir! | 16:05 |
| greg-g | interesting! | 16:05 |
| greg-g | the requirements on code review based on diff size | 16:05 |
| greg-g | we don't have such crazy rules like that | 16:05 |
| rick_h_ | it helps break code down and prevent massive diffs that talk days to review | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | and I think is a really really good thing | 16:06 |
| greg-g | yeah, I like it | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | helps break that 3 day card to two 1 day tasks | 16:06 |
| greg-g | we don't have too much of a problem with that, but it does happen | 16:06 |
| greg-g | we have a huge rewrite of one of our extensions just sitting there because, well, it's a rewrite, all at once | 16:06 |
| rick_h_ | yea, sometimes we have to do more work to do things behind feature flags and such but it makes things not get hung up for so long and impossible to merge | 16:07 |
| rick_h_ | trade wasted time in making things landable as you go vs removing that cruft once it all does land | 16:07 |
| greg-g | totally | 16:08 |
| greg-g | people need to get more comfortable with feature flags | 16:08 |
| rick_h_ | <3 | 16:08 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: does whatever ya'll use for code reviews enforce that, or is it team enforced? | 16:08 |
| rick_h_ | we've got a few good lessons on using those. Working in the negative case vs the positive for 'is the flag on' to aid cleaning up a closed flag | 16:08 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: team enforced | 16:09 |
| * greg-g nods | 16:09 | |
| rick_h_ | once in a while we let one go because of the nature of the work | 16:09 |
| greg-g | yeah | 16:09 |
| rick_h_ | or things like "mechanical change, moved x to y" | 16:09 |
| greg-g | a tool enforced thing would need an override feature | 16:09 |
| greg-g | yeah | 16:09 |
| rick_h_ | but nice because you need break the work from mechanical vs actual changes in a big branch | 16:09 |
| greg-g | huh, yeah | 16:09 |
| jrwren | whoa! pep442 finally makes python GC not crazy! :) | 16:13 |
| cmaloney | I heard one anecdote from a developer that when he worked at $COMPANY they had an onerous process for landing program changes into production | 16:56 |
| cmaloney | so the developers learned to make all of their code work via the database instead. | 16:57 |
| cmaloney | because that was less controlled than the codebase | 16:57 |
| greg-g | brings a whole new meaning to "data is code, code is data" | 16:57 |
| rick_h_ | yea db needs the same process | 16:57 |
| cmaloney | Their code essentially became a boot-loader for code in the database | 16:57 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 16:57 |
| cmaloney | I'd rather the lesson be that you can get to the point where your process is more important than actually getthing things done. | 16:58 |
| cmaloney | (but yeah, your database should also have some rigor to it) | 16:59 |
| greg-g | oh good: http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status | 16:59 |
| rick_h_ | well the trouble is that is takes a lot of time to get the process right | 17:00 |
| greg-g | also, yay depending on a service without an SLA | 17:00 |
| rick_h_ | until you've got the smooth running process changes tend to be big and infrequent which just makes them harder | 17:00 |
| rick_h_ | but until you get it smooth you won't get small frequent changes that are more ideal | 17:00 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: yea :/ | 17:00 |
| rick_h_ | we'll see if I'll be doing my hangout interviews this afternoon | 17:00 |
| greg-g | guess who has a Ops-wide team meeting over hangouts soon? | 17:00 |
| cmaloney | rick_h_: Agreed, but developers tend to see processes that are too strict as damage and route around it. | 17:01 |
| rick_h_ | cmaloney: yea, understand | 17:01 |
| cmaloney | ++ for creative solutions, but their code suffered as a result. | 17:01 |
| cmaloney | We saw that with FieldConnect and their backward waterfall process. | 17:02 |
| cmaloney | It was a challenge to get anything promoted to production so it felt like a major accomplishment to land any change. | 17:04 |
| rick_h_ | right, the goal of any process should be making it faster and easier to land things safely | 17:05 |
| cmaloney | much like figuring out the controls to an arcade game. | 17:05 |
| cmaloney | It should be this simple: http://www.tokensonly.com/images/events/morgan-beckman/images/morgan-b-gameroom-40.JPG | 17:09 |
| cmaloney | (That's Badlands, a laser disc game that had one single button). | 17:10 |
| cmaloney | (Note: The game was terrible). | 17:10 |
| cmaloney | http://www.emuparadise.me/MAME/cabinets/thayers.png <- This was our launch process. | 17:11 |
| cmaloney | Also: Thayer's Quest was interesting, but not terribly friendly to newcomers. | 17:15 |
| greg-g | "Since GateKeeper is essentially a runtime business rules engine, it was heavily abused to effectively execute code living in a database. Avoid this through simpler design or a policy of sanity." | 17:57 |
| greg-g | heh | 17:57 |
| greg-g | from https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabflavor/article/recommendations_on_branching/ | 17:57 |
| rick_h_ | :) | 18:02 |
| cmaloney | greg-g: re: Techcrunch article on harassment: I take most things from TechCrunch with a grain of skepticism. | 19:25 |
| cmaloney | But even if 70% of what is in that article pans out, that's reprehensible. | 19:26 |
| cmaloney | (was re: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/) | 19:26 |
| mrgoodcat | maybe i should ad a rickstatus command to bookiebot lol | 19:45 |
| rick_h_ | mrgoodcat: :P | 19:45 |
| rick_h_ | seems that way "eyeballs averted don't type out 10 things" | 19:45 |
| mrgoodcat | i was considering making it so if a new person joined that the bot had never seen before it would greet him with some sort of message linking to the docs and such | 19:50 |
| mrgoodcat | maybe after i finish the switch to sqlalchemy | 19:51 |
| cmaloney | nah, just have it display that every 5 minutes. ;) | 20:02 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: reprehensible! | 20:03 |
| mrgoodcat | lol | 20:03 |
| mrgoodcat | cron job | 20:03 |
| mrgoodcat | i'm rewriting my go bot as well | 20:04 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: https://bmark.us/craig/redirect/7f0f9f24bb793f | 20:06 |
| cmaloney | (that's what I think of whenever I hear 'go bot' ;) | 20:06 |
| mrgoodcat | interesting idea... maybe i should write a bot in go to play go | 20:10 |
| mrgoodcat | i've made a few sudoku solvers | 20:10 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: w...t...f? 3252 queries? | 20:20 |
| mrgoodcat | queries on what? | 20:20 |
| mrgoodcat | bmark? | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | 20:21 | |
| jrwren | which only takes 7s, which i'm totally OK with. | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | no, we don't do that anywhere | 20:21 |
| greg-g | cmaloney: yeah, github has a culture problem. always had. They just now (Jan '14) hired a head of HR. That shows a real problem. | 20:21 |
| mrgoodcat | i'm confused | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: ugh, any web thing taking 7s needs to be shot unless it's a one off admin only view | 20:21 |
| jrwren | assume its not web. | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | still, that'll drop your job | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | jaw | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | bah | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | I'm done for today, wtf | 20:21 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: don't load the Barack Obama article on WP (slow because of how well cited it is) | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | it's 4:20?! | 20:21 |
| jrwren | still, the 70s total is what I find unacceptable. | 20:21 |
| rick_h_ | holy crap, /me missed the last 2 hours | 20:22 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: spark it up! | 20:22 |
| cmaloney | OK, did anyone follow anything that rick_h_ and jrwren said since 4:20? :) | 20:24 |
| mrgoodcat | nope | 20:24 |
| rick_h_ | context https://twitter.com/JayRWren/status/445654479648460800 | 20:25 |
| rick_h_ | I'm a little bit less crazy than I seem...usually | 20:25 |
| cmaloney | What the fuck? | 20:25 |
| mrgoodcat | lol | 20:26 |
| mrgoodcat | jrwren: why are you making so many queries on one webview? | 20:26 |
| cmaloney | What the hell are you loading? | 20:26 |
| mrgoodcat | whelp, that's the end of my workday | 20:28 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, same here. | 20:29 |
| cmaloney | ttyl! | 20:29 |
| cmaloney | new OMC tonight with any luck. | 20:29 |
| greg-g | this thread makes me sad: https://twitter.com/faidonl/status/424108562579591168 | 20:33 |
| greg-g | (Faidon is an Ops engineer at WMF, also a DD (paravoid)) | 20:33 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: :( | 20:50 |
| cmaloney | Evening | 23:49 |
| cmaloney | So basically what Varnish just did was give everyone a reason to not use Varnish. | 23:50 |
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