[00:45] <rick_h_> applications for GSoC starting to roll in. Man this is going to be so hard to pick 2
[01:50] <mrgoodcat> lol did you see Hubert?
[01:50] <mrgoodcat> little late to the party
[02:01] <mrgoodcat> i almost feel bad
[02:29] <mrgoodcat> .func
[02:29] <bookiebot> Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex>
[02:29] <mrgoodcat> .help func
[02:29] <bookiebot> Searches most recent copy of bookie repo for function definitions; Update repo with .pull; Syntax: .func <regex>
[02:29] <mrgoodcat> .help list
[02:29] <bookiebot> no docs for command
[02:29] <mrgoodcat> .help
[02:29] <bookiebot> echo func help list pull relist sleep
[02:29] <mrgoodcat> .help asdf
[02:29] <bookiebot> no such command
[02:37] <cmaloney> jcastro: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/15/windows_desktop_and_laptop_market_share_dips_below_90_per_cent
[02:37] <cmaloney> About the only thing I got wrong in our bet was the timeframe. ;)
[02:37] <cmaloney> That and not counting iOS. :)
[02:38] <mrgoodcat> below 90%
[02:38] <mrgoodcat> i like how below 90% is considered a huge problem
[02:38] <cmaloney> Our bet was Mac marketshare at 10%
[02:38] <mrgoodcat> everyone else considers that a monopoly
[09:59] <cmaloney> morning
[09:59] <cmaloney> ugh
[12:11] <rick_h_> morning
[12:12] <rick_h_> and +1 ugh, but got to sleep in a bit so yay
[12:14] <brousch> Just a bit?
[12:15] <cmaloney> Yeh, acc. to the fitbit I got 5h30m sleep
[12:35] <mrgoodcat> morning
[12:35] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: how was GR?
[12:44] <brousch> GR is awesome with every metric you choose
[12:45] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: good stuff. Parking was meh but we had a good day
[12:46] <mrgoodcat> brousch: are you from gr?
[12:47] <brousch> West MI in general
[12:47] <mrgoodcat> i'll agree with you all day on that
[12:48] <brousch> rick_h_: I've never seen that parking ramp full except during ArtPrize and museum new exhibit openings. It was really odd for it to be so busy on the 3rd weekend
[12:48] <mrgoodcat> i love traverse city, kalamazoo, and grand rapids
[13:06] <rick_h_> woot! pocket casts now with chromecast support
[13:07] <rick_h_> <3 the world we live in
[13:08] <mrgoodcat> chromecast ias been really bad to me
[13:08] <rick_h_> why so? The only issue I find is that the chrome extention has to be disabled/enabled every so often as it loses the connection to the chromecast
[13:08] <brousch> mrgoodcat: Did it kill your good cat?
[13:09] <mrgoodcat> i had a really hard time with initial setup
[13:09] <mrgoodcat> and occasionally it will lose connection to my wifi
[13:09] <brousch> It has worked very well for me
[13:09] <mrgoodcat> the chromecast extension is total garbage
[13:09] <brousch> But i use it almost exclusively from Android
[13:10] <mrgoodcat> and the sound cuts out occasionally
[13:10] <mrgoodcat> i use it exclusively from android and chrome os
[13:10] <mrgoodcat> you would think it would work the best
[13:10] <mrgoodcat> it just feels like a beta product
[13:10] <brousch> Also I basically just use netflix and youtube
[13:10] <mrgoodcat> youtube is the worst for sound cut out
[13:11] <mrgoodcat> i use it for netflix, youtube, and google play movies
[13:12] <brousch> I've had no sound problems
[13:12] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: How far away from your wifi is the Chromecast?
[13:12] <brousch> Played 2 different 1.5 hour long youtube videos yesterday
[13:12] <mrgoodcat> about 20 feet
[13:12] <mrgoodcat> accross the same room
[13:13] <mrgoodcat> line of sight
[13:13] <brousch> N?
[13:13] <mrgoodcat> yup
[13:13] <mrgoodcat> i even switched routers
[13:13] <mrgoodcat> i have a netgear r6300 right now
[13:13] <mrgoodcat> but i had a belkin before
[13:14] <brousch> does it go through the TV to get to the router?
[13:15] <mrgoodcat> sort of but not really. its on an angle
[13:16] <mrgoodcat> about 45 degrees
[14:07] <cmaloney> Trying duplicity again for local backup.
[14:07] <cmaloney> I think the biggest problem I have is trying to backup 10lbs of shit in a 5lb bag.
[14:08] <cmaloney> But did decide to turn off journaling on the backup drive as I think it was rather unnecessary.
[14:21] <mrgoodcat> duplicity is actually really good
[14:22] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_ has the patience of a saint
[14:22] <mrgoodcat> no way i could be a GSoC mentor
[14:23] <mrgoodcat> not that i believe anyone would actually want me to mentor them
[14:30] <mrgoodcat> meanwhile on the set of Ocean's fourteen http://bit.ly/1md2O9A
[15:14] <jrwren> rick_h_ is a manager. You can call him Mister Manager.
[15:14] <rick_h_> huh? I'd not recommend it :P
[15:19] <cmaloney> my only problem with Duplicity is it takes forever to complete
[15:20] <rick_h_> cmaloney: my first sync to my NAS took 4 days
[15:20] <rick_h_> it's what it takes to start a backup
[15:20] <cmaloney> rdiff-backup is much quicker
[15:21] <cmaloney> but it also tends to lunch itself if the dest volume fills up
[15:21] <greg-g> obnam!
[15:21] <cmaloney> which seems to happen to me if I use VBox. The image files change enough to make things not want to work right
[15:21] <cmaloney> greg-g: obnam is fine save for a few problems:
[15:22] <cmaloney> 1) I've never seen it finish.
[15:22] <cmaloney> 2) See above.
[15:22] <greg-g> cmaloney: finishes for me
[15:23] <greg-g> cmaloney: did you follow the guide and start with a subset?
[15:23] <greg-g> obnam backup $HOME/somesubdir
[15:23] <cmaloney> greg-g: I had one version when I tried it that was completely borked.
[15:23] <cmaloney> No, I tried the whole hog
[15:23]  * greg-g shrugs
[15:23] <greg-g> works great for me
[15:23] <cmaloney> It was before 1.0 released.
[15:23] <greg-g> a incremental now takes about 10 minutes
[15:24] <greg-g> speed isn't it's strong point, though
[15:24] <cmaloney> Right. I need something that's a little quicker than Obnam
[15:24] <cmaloney> also space efficient
[15:24] <greg-g> obnam does dedup
[15:25] <cmaloney> also: could be conflating obnam with duplicity.
[15:25] <greg-g> heh
[15:25] <greg-g> I don't know the others too well anymore
[15:25] <greg-g> other than "rsync"
[15:25] <greg-g> ;)
[15:25] <cmaloney> Yeah, rsync is awesome
[15:25] <cmaloney> I swear if rsync stopped working I think I'd seriously have to consider not jumping off of a bridge.
[15:25] <greg-g> if you don't want versioning, it Just Works
[15:26] <cmaloney> I used to use rsnapshot. Liked it a lot but rdiff-backup was more efficient
[15:29] <greg-g> rick_h_: you made me chuckle out loud in the office: https://twitter.com/shmcmahon/status/445329656602820608
[15:29] <rick_h_> such great stuff http://docs.python.org/3.4/whatsnew/3.4.html
[15:29] <rick_h_> greg-g: <3
[15:31] <jrwren> time to move to python3
[15:31] <jrwren> rsync isn't backups.
[15:31] <jrwren> if you delete a file, and rsync runs and deletes the synced files, you cannot recover.
[15:32] <jrwren> or rather... rsync MIGHT be a backup - if you have a stupid recovery specification
[15:32] <greg-g> jrwren: that
[15:32] <rick_h_> well, there's different kinds of backups. Full versioning isn't always necessary and if you don't do -e you can rsync and keep old files around
[15:32] <rick_h_> but they're the latest version
[15:32] <rick_h_> and you are backing up multiple locations right?
[15:32] <greg-g> I've been bitten by the "new version wasn't right" bug
[15:32] <jrwren> i like to say - there is no such thing as backups. There is only restores.
[15:33] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, but that's another level of 'data lost'
[15:33] <cmaloney> jrwren: Deep maaaaaaaan
[15:33] <greg-g> luckily I could go through git-annex's previous versions
[15:33] <jrwren> tar -cf - / >/dev/null   # is a backup
[15:33] <cmaloney> OK, I do not like git annex.
[15:33] <cmaloney> I tried it for my book collection and hated it
[15:33] <jrwren> i neither like nor dislike git annex.
[15:33] <greg-g> cmaloney: which part?
[15:33] <cmaloney> greg-g: The "files are not real files" part.
[15:34] <cmaloney> the "syncing takes longer than rsync" part
[15:34] <greg-g> ah, so, "git-annex direct" will make you happy
[15:34] <cmaloney> the "holy shit I think I just did something stupid and now I have to restore from backup" part.
[15:34] <cmaloney> that part.
[15:34] <greg-g> cmaloney: there's this pattern I see in you: you want speed at the expense of well written software that guards against data loss ;)
[15:35] <cmaloney> greg-g: Point
[15:35] <greg-g> but seriously, git-annex direct makes the files real files, but you loss a ton of git-annex's safe guarding
[15:35] <cmaloney> I think the main part was I didn't understand what it made it tick
[15:35] <cmaloney> and that ultimately wasn't what I had in mind.
[15:35] <greg-g> http://git-annex.branchable.com/direct_mode/
[15:36] <cmaloney> Yeah, familiar with it
[15:36] <cmaloney> but what I really wanted (in this case) was a way to sync my books to my laptop
[15:36] <greg-g> yeah, I've gotten to the point where I know how it works (mostly, not all) and thus I grok it, and when grok something, you love something ;)
[15:36] <cmaloney> and rsync does that nicely
[15:37] <rick_h_> greg-g: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS516maqfAg woot looks like it's up
[15:38] <greg-g> w00t!
[15:39] <rick_h_> it's a talk I should try to give again. I could use a few iterations on it.
[15:42]  * greg-g is listening
[15:44] <mrgoodcat> lol i love the description
[15:44] <mrgoodcat> "he's been a team lead for about 10 minutes"
[15:44] <cmaloney> ;)
[15:45] <rick_h_> talk the talk with a giant salt lick
[15:51] <mrgoodcat> and a shot of tequila
[15:56] <greg-g> rick_h_: when are your daily standups? time of day? where does your team live?
[15:56] <rick_h_> greg-g: so ours is 11am est. We have folks in italy, EDT, and mountain time in CO and Canada
[15:57] <rick_h_> greg-g: so 9am for the western folks, after lunch for guy in italy
[15:57]  * greg-g nods
[15:57] <greg-g> we have a senior dev in Australia
[15:57] <greg-g> kinda fucks everything over
[15:58] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea, we've got a design guy in AU. So I'll meet with him at night as needed and we tend to have more of a weekly catchup with him
[15:58] <rick_h_> greg-g: but we track his work on the board
[15:58]  * greg-g nods
[16:03] <greg-g> rick_h_: slides with links to your boards? (sorry for interrupting, but you're a manager now, you HAVE to multitask)
[16:03] <greg-g> :P
[16:03] <rick_h_> greg-g: :P
[16:03] <rick_h_> greg-g: the big work board isn't publicly avail
[16:03] <rick_h_> greg-g: I'd be happy to do a hangout/screenshare if you want a walk through/questions
[16:03] <rick_h_> but it's behind a login
[16:04]  * greg-g nods
[16:04] <greg-g> understandable
[16:04] <rick_h_> https://trello.com/b/jXSwmBMC/bookie
[16:04] <rick_h_> and shared the slides doc with you
[16:05] <greg-g> ty sir!
[16:05] <greg-g> interesting!
[16:05] <greg-g> the requirements on code review based on diff size
[16:05] <greg-g> we don't have such crazy rules like that
[16:06] <rick_h_> it helps break code down and prevent massive diffs that talk days to review
[16:06] <rick_h_> and I think is a really really good thing
[16:06] <greg-g> yeah, I like it
[16:06] <rick_h_> helps break that 3 day card to two 1 day tasks
[16:06] <greg-g> we don't have too much of a problem with that, but it does happen
[16:06] <greg-g> we have a huge rewrite of one of our extensions just sitting there because, well, it's a rewrite, all at once
[16:07] <rick_h_> yea, sometimes we have to do more work to do things behind feature flags and such but it makes things not get hung up for so long and impossible to merge
[16:07] <rick_h_> trade wasted time in making things landable as you go vs removing that cruft once it all does land
[16:08] <greg-g> totally
[16:08] <greg-g> people need to get more comfortable with feature flags
[16:08] <rick_h_> <3
[16:08] <greg-g> rick_h_: does whatever ya'll use for code reviews enforce that, or is it team enforced?
[16:08] <rick_h_> we've got a few good lessons on using those. Working in the negative case vs the positive for 'is the flag on' to aid cleaning up a closed flag
[16:09] <rick_h_> greg-g: team enforced
[16:09]  * greg-g nods
[16:09] <rick_h_> once in a while we let one go because of the nature of the work
[16:09] <greg-g> yeah
[16:09] <rick_h_> or things like "mechanical change, moved x to y"
[16:09] <greg-g> a tool enforced thing would need an override feature
[16:09] <greg-g> yeah
[16:09] <rick_h_> but nice because you need break the work from mechanical vs actual changes in a big branch
[16:09] <greg-g> huh, yeah
[16:13] <jrwren> whoa! pep442 finally makes python GC not crazy! :)
[16:56] <cmaloney> I heard one anecdote from a developer that when he worked at $COMPANY they had an onerous process for landing program changes into production
[16:57] <cmaloney> so the developers learned to make all of their code work via the database instead.
[16:57] <cmaloney> because that was less controlled than the codebase
[16:57] <greg-g> brings a whole new meaning to "data is code, code is data"
[16:57] <rick_h_> yea db needs the same process
[16:57] <cmaloney> Their code essentially became a boot-loader for code in the database
[16:57] <rick_h_> lol
[16:58] <cmaloney> I'd rather the lesson be that you can get to the point where your process is more important than actually getthing things done.
[16:59] <cmaloney> (but yeah, your database should also have some rigor to it)
[16:59] <greg-g> oh good: http://www.google.com/appsstatus#hl=en&v=status
[17:00] <rick_h_> well the trouble is that is takes a lot of time to get the process right
[17:00] <greg-g> also, yay depending on a service without an SLA
[17:00] <rick_h_> until you've got the smooth running process changes tend to be big and infrequent which just makes them harder
[17:00] <rick_h_> but until you get it smooth you won't get small frequent changes that are more ideal
[17:00] <rick_h_> greg-g: yea :/
[17:00] <rick_h_> we'll see if I'll be doing my hangout interviews this afternoon
[17:00] <greg-g> guess who has a Ops-wide team meeting over hangouts soon?
[17:01] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Agreed, but developers tend to see processes that are too strict as damage and route around it.
[17:01] <rick_h_> cmaloney: yea, understand
[17:01] <cmaloney> ++ for creative solutions, but their code suffered as a result.
[17:02] <cmaloney> We saw that with FieldConnect and their backward waterfall process.
[17:04] <cmaloney> It was a challenge to get anything promoted to production so it felt like a major accomplishment to land any change.
[17:05] <rick_h_> right, the goal of any process should be making it faster and easier to land things safely
[17:05] <cmaloney> much like figuring out the controls to an arcade game.
[17:09] <cmaloney> It should be this simple: http://www.tokensonly.com/images/events/morgan-beckman/images/morgan-b-gameroom-40.JPG
[17:10] <cmaloney> (That's Badlands, a laser disc game that had one single button).
[17:10] <cmaloney> (Note: The game was terrible).
[17:11] <cmaloney> http://www.emuparadise.me/MAME/cabinets/thayers.png <- This was our launch process.
[17:15] <cmaloney> Also: Thayer's Quest was interesting, but not terribly friendly to newcomers.
[17:57] <greg-g> "Since GateKeeper is essentially a runtime business rules engine, it was heavily abused to effectively execute code living in a database. Avoid this through simpler design or a policy of sanity."
[17:57] <greg-g> heh
[17:57] <greg-g> from https://secure.phabricator.com/book/phabflavor/article/recommendations_on_branching/
[18:02] <rick_h_> :)
[19:25] <cmaloney> greg-g: re: Techcrunch article on harassment: I take most things from TechCrunch with a grain of skepticism.
[19:26] <cmaloney> But even if 70% of what is in that article pans out, that's reprehensible.
[19:26] <cmaloney> (was re: http://techcrunch.com/2014/03/15/julie-ann-horvath-describes-sexism-and-intimidation-behind-her-github-exit/)
[19:45] <mrgoodcat> maybe i should ad a rickstatus command to bookiebot lol
[19:45] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: :P
[19:45] <rick_h_> seems that way "eyeballs averted don't type out 10 things"
[19:50] <mrgoodcat> i was considering making it so if a new person joined that the bot had never seen before it would greet him with some sort of message linking to the docs and such
[19:51] <mrgoodcat> maybe after i finish the switch to sqlalchemy
[20:02] <cmaloney> nah, just have it display that every 5 minutes. ;)
[20:03] <jrwren> cmaloney: reprehensible!
[20:03] <mrgoodcat> lol
[20:03] <mrgoodcat> cron job
[20:04] <mrgoodcat> i'm rewriting my go bot as well
[20:06] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: https://bmark.us/craig/redirect/7f0f9f24bb793f
[20:06] <cmaloney> (that's what I think of whenever I hear 'go bot' ;)
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> interesting idea... maybe i should write a bot in go to play go
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> i've made a few sudoku solvers
[20:20] <rick_h_> jrwren: w...t...f? 3252 queries?
[20:20] <mrgoodcat> queries on what?
[20:21] <mrgoodcat> bmark?
[20:21] <rick_h_> twitter
[20:21] <jrwren> which only takes 7s, which i'm totally OK with.
[20:21] <rick_h_> no, we don't do that anywhere
[20:21] <greg-g> cmaloney: yeah, github has a culture problem. always had. They just now (Jan '14) hired a head of HR.  That shows a real problem.
[20:21] <mrgoodcat> i'm confused
[20:21] <rick_h_> jrwren: ugh, any web thing taking 7s needs to be shot unless it's a one off admin only view
[20:21] <jrwren> assume its not web.
[20:21] <rick_h_> still, that'll drop your job
[20:21] <rick_h_> jaw
[20:21] <rick_h_> bah
[20:21] <rick_h_> I'm done for today, wtf
[20:21] <greg-g> rick_h_: don't load the Barack Obama article on WP (slow because of how well cited it is)
[20:21] <rick_h_> it's 4:20?!
[20:21] <jrwren> still, the 70s total is what I find unacceptable.
[20:22] <rick_h_> holy crap, /me missed the last 2 hours
[20:22] <jrwren> rick_h_: spark it up!
[20:24] <cmaloney> OK, did anyone follow anything that rick_h_ and jrwren said since 4:20? :)
[20:24] <mrgoodcat> nope
[20:25] <rick_h_> context https://twitter.com/JayRWren/status/445654479648460800
[20:25] <rick_h_> I'm a little bit less crazy than I seem...usually
[20:25] <cmaloney> What the fuck?
[20:26] <mrgoodcat> lol
[20:26] <mrgoodcat> jrwren: why are you making so many queries on one webview?
[20:26] <cmaloney> What the hell are you loading?
[20:28] <mrgoodcat> whelp, that's the end of my workday
[20:29] <cmaloney> Yeah, same here.
[20:29] <cmaloney> ttyl!
[20:29] <cmaloney> new OMC tonight with any luck.
[20:33] <greg-g> this thread makes me sad: https://twitter.com/faidonl/status/424108562579591168
[20:33] <greg-g> (Faidon is an Ops engineer at WMF, also a DD (paravoid))
[20:50] <rick_h_> greg-g: :(
[23:49] <cmaloney> Evening
[23:50] <cmaloney> So basically what Varnish just did was give everyone a reason to not use Varnish.