[15:28] <xnox> cjwatson: stgraber: elmo says /boot should be more than 256MB in 2014-2019 =) i think we should give /boot same or more than EFI.
[15:28] <xnox> efi is at: 512 512 1024 free
[15:29] <xnox> and
[15:29] <xnox> boot is at:
[15:29] <xnox> 128 512 256 ext2
[15:31] <cjwatson> ideally, in 2014-2019, /boot shouldn't need to exist ...
[15:31] <cjwatson> but sure, feel free to bump the max size
[15:31] <cjwatson> EFI is only that large because of stupid fat32 constraints, though - don't take it as any kind of specific guideline
[15:42] <infinity> My /boot only has 81MB in it...
[15:42] <infinity> I suppose actually autoremoving helps.
[15:50] <xnox> infinity: how often / when is autoremoval is triggered on the default installs?
[15:57] <infinity> xnox: Triggered?  Never.
[15:58] <infinity> xnox: That's probably something both unattended-upgrades and update-manager should learn to do, BUT, we need to argue about how to do it safely.
[15:58] <xnox> infinity: so how does marking kernels for autoremoval help, if autoremoval never happens (e.g. neither by default apt-get, periodic apt-get, update-manager / unattended-upgrades) ?!
[15:59] <infinity> xnox: It helps for people who use apt-get autoremove.
[15:59] <infinity> Pretty sure no one said it was perfect, nor that questioning it required flailing and interrobangs.
[16:00] <infinity> The deep concern with automatic autoremoval is the potention for people to shoot themselves in the foot.
[16:00] <infinity> But maybe that's just a question of "people should learn how metapackages work and not whine when they break stuff".
[16:01] <infinity> Since the most obvious breakage would be "apt-get install corp-metapackage; remove corp-metapackage; (automated tool removes all of corp's packages; corp files angry bug and escalates support ticket and threatens to eat our children)"
[16:06] <xnox> infinity: that's no different then a corp's user doing $ apt-get autoremove or doing --auto-remove. etc. if corp wants it installed, it should keep it installed, i heard puppet is good at installing things when they are removed.
[16:07] <xnox> infinity: imho /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades should change to Unattended-Upgrade::Remove-Unused-Dependencies "true";
[16:08] <infinity> Having something happen automatically is definitely more surprising than a user explicitly calling autoremove.
[16:08] <infinity> I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm jut saying we need to weigh the options and decide if it's an issue.
[20:20] <antarus> infinity: yeah we wrote our own kernel remover, the debian folks on the team seemed to massively distrust apt-get autoremove for some reason ;p
[20:22] <infinity> antarus: I had a healthy distrust for it a long while back, it all seems to work as advertised now.
[20:23] <infinity> It's certainly not bitten me in any unexpected ways in a very long time.
[20:23] <antarus> yeah, I think her fear is somewhat justified
[20:23] <antarus> mostly because I bet our end users do some crazy stuff
[20:23] <antarus> ;p
[20:24] <infinity> Users will be users.
[20:24] <antarus> what I really want is something more like apt-get autoremove <depstring>
[20:24] <antarus> instead of acting on all packages
[20:24] <antarus> but I don't think that exists