[00:11] <jcmcken> hi all -- quick question, when anyone gets a minute
[00:12] <jcmcken> is there a native way to specify that cloud-init configuration baked into an image can override configuration passed as user data?
[08:09] <harmw> smoser: I'm feeding the raw image to glance, which hands it over to my Ceph backend
[08:09] <harmw> come to think of it, isn't Glance able to convert images on the fly these days..?
[08:10] <harmw> anyway, supplying a vhd to serve Hyper-V would be nice 
[13:06] <smoser> harmw, glance doesn't (or shouldn't) do it.
[13:06] <smoser> generally thats the philosophy with glance.
[13:06] <smoser> its just a registry.
[13:07] <smoser> hypervisors need to just deal with it.
[13:07] <smoser> and i guess then that that means where nova provisions something "to volume" that it needs to do it too.
[13:08] <smoser> id' happily cahnge to some other format if that format was as easily consumable and producable as qcow and was also sparse and compressed.
[13:08] <smoser> especially if it streamed.  wget | convert-to-raw | dd of=block-devic
[13:08] <smoser> that is ideal. i guess s/wget/curl/
[13:09] <harmw> ah, well
[13:09] <smoser> (so yeah, you touched on somewhat a religous topic for me)
[13:09] <harmw> haha :)
[13:09] <smoser> it is absolutely absurd to expect "image producers" (or appliance producers or whatever)
[13:10] <smoser> to have to offer the same bits in 6 different formats.
[13:10] <smoser> and you (as the user) to have to know which one to get.
[13:10] <harmw> true, though it is conveniant
[13:10] <smoser> the unfair benefit for me of qcow is that it "just works" with kvm.
[13:10] <harmw> which was what I'm after :)
[13:10] <smoser> so that is me being biased a bit.
[13:17] <smoser> harlowja_away, please ping me when in.
[13:17] <smoser> i really need to call 0.7.5 by like end of tomorrow
[13:17] <smoser> so if there is stuff that you think is or should get in, please let me know.
[13:17] <smoser> harmw, same for you above
[13:17] <smoser> or anyone else.
[13:18] <harmw> hm? ah, cloud-init?
[13:18] <smoser> yeah :)
[13:18] <smoser> we also talk about cloud-init here sometimes
[13:18] <harmw> hehe
[13:19] <harmw> well the fbsd stuff is in, and I've not worked on that for quite a while now
[13:19] <harmw> mostly waiting for it to arrive in ports
[13:19] <harmw> and to busy with cirros :p
[13:20] <smoser> again, thanks for your help with that.
[13:20] <harmw> sure np
[13:23] <harmw> https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/cinder/commit/?id=e066158b5235a3879fe90fa3bd813fc3363c01f5 that looks like Glance auto-converting any image type to raw volume
[13:24] <harmw> or it converts the image to raw, making cow volumes possible
[13:24] <harmw> (meh, Ill just have to read the source at some point time)
[13:27] <harmw> smoser: just have Canonical donate me a nice HP Gen8 Microserver and we'll be another step closer to world domination :>
[13:28] <smoser> harmw, NUCs are the new hotness.
[13:28] <smoser> microservers crap
[13:29] <harmw> I'm in for one of those as well :)
[13:30] <smoser> nucs are really neat actually. they also have 'eamt' which gets you vnc to the system and remote power control an dsuch.
[13:30] <smoser> but to our experiments no serial over lan
[13:31] <harmw> so they include some kind of bmc?
[13:31] <smoser> essentially.
[13:31] <smoser> its consumer grade
[13:31] <smoser> but pretty neat.
[13:31] <harmw> sweet, didn't know that 
[13:31] <smoser> it shares 1 NIC with the host
[13:31] <harmw> ay
[13:31] <smoser> its actually available on lots of system syou probably didn't know about
[13:31] <smoser> ie, if you have a thinkpad of < 2 years old they all have it.
[13:31] <harmw> I haven't bought hardware in ages, so... :)
[13:32] <smoser> yeah, my thinkpad is 4 years old. it missed the eamt by 1 generation
[13:32] <smoser> :)
[13:32] <harmw> and all servers we have have here come with idrac/ilom or whatever decent thing they have
[13:32] <harmw> *installed
[13:32] <smoser> eamt is really kindofo hookey, but neat.  the vnc works by taking the hosts port 5900
[13:32] <harmw> wtf
[13:32] <smoser> ie, you cannot get to that host's IP address on 5900. 
[13:32] <smoser> it shares the IP
[13:33] <harmw> aargh
[13:33] <harmw> thats just sux
[13:33] <smoser> well, consumer
[13:33] <smoser> :)
[13:33] <harmw> true :)
[13:33] <smoser> what do you want for $300 in a hocky puck sized server
[13:33] <harmw> hehe
[13:33] <harmw> 2nd nic and 2nd 2.5" hdd :)
[13:33] <harmw> ideal compute nodes
[13:34] <harmw> atleast in a homelab
[13:34] <smoser> yeah. they're really neat.
[13:34] <smoser> for the money i think they beat the pants off of hp microservers
[13:34] <smoser> at least the onest that we had some of.
[13:35] <harmw> ofc, but the new Gen8 microservers are way better compared to the first 3 generations
[13:35] <harmw> but enough about that :) back to world domination
[13:36] <harmw> when you're gonna branch cirros 0.4?
[13:46] <harmw> btw smoser, how about a little tool in bin/ to change to root password when building from source?
[13:47] <smoser> booooooooo
[13:47] <smoser> this year is our year (cubs)
[13:47] <harmw> perhaps, but here we are rather clueless on just wtf the cubs are and why they should win :>
[13:48] <smoser> as above where i like to selfishly inflict my preferences of kvm on the world, i also like making people type "cubswin:)"
[13:48] <smoser> someone disappointed that "cubswin:)" doesn't show anything about cirros in google
[13:49] <harmw> hehe
[13:49] <harmw> if I created such a tool, would you merge it?
[13:50] <smoser> actually... i've dreamt of "cirros-tools" 
[13:50] <smoser> as a package
[13:50] <smoser> err... a separate project.
[13:50] <smoser> fine to start in cirros
[13:50] <harmw> hmk? 
[13:50] <smoser> but that do things like:
[13:50] <smoser>   cirros-util start lxc
[13:50] <smoser>  cirros-util download 
[13:50] <smoser> ...
[13:51] <smoser>   cirros-util set-passwd cubs-lose
[13:51] <smoser> it'd make testing things easier too.
[13:51] <harmw> hm hm, interesting
[13:51] <smoser> for lxc, though, its in lxc now. 'lxc create -t cirros' (although that there needs a feature to add user-data/meta-data)
[13:52] <smoser> actually... i wonder how close 'backdoor-image' would come to working on cirros.
[13:52] <smoser> i might have even tested it at one point 
[13:52] <smoser> (it has code that changes passwords)
[13:52] <smoser> https://code.launchpad.net/~smoser/+junk/backdoor-image
[13:53] <smoser> so that might actually work as it is. 
[13:53] <smoser> backdoor-iamge --user cirros cirros-image.img 
[13:54] <kwadronaut> (typo)
[13:54] <smoser> what is 'sl' ?
[13:54] <harmw> isn't that the steamlocomotive?
[13:54] <smoser> oh. funny.
[13:54] <smoser> :)
[13:54] <harmw> ubuntu ships with it iirc
[13:55] <smoser> 26k though installed.
[13:55] <smoser> wonder if there is a trim version :)
[13:55] <harmw> :)
[13:56] <smoser> did you ever see the "wheres chuck" meme ?
[13:56] <smoser> http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/16/wheres-chuck/
[13:56] <smoser> i had a ascii art version. that i was going to shove into cirros
[13:57] <smoser> and have it show it if you did the konami code on the console
[13:57] <smoser> i'd love to have some easter egg like that
[13:57] <harmw> damn right :)
[13:57] <harmw> I don't know this specific meme though
[13:57] <harmw> but we have similar memes here :p
[14:08] <smoser> https://launchpad.net/cirros
[14:08] <smoser> harmw, you have almost as many points as i do!
[14:09] <smoser> :)
[14:09] <harmw> hehe cool
[14:09] <smoser> i just branched 0.3. so now there is lp:~cirros-dev/cirros/0.3
[14:09] <smoser> and lp:~cirros-dev/cirros/trunk
[14:09] <harmw> ah yes, I see
[14:09] <smoser> the second is the target of the ilnk 'lp:cirros'
[14:09] <harmw> and the latest version got updated :)
[14:10] <smoser> and your name is in the changelog
[14:10] <smoser> fame and fortune will come your way soon
[14:10] <harmw> o m g
[14:10] <harmw> your telling ppl to just build the image themselves?
[14:10] <smoser> no.
[14:10] <smoser> i jsut don't knwo what to do.
[14:11] <smoser> as i really dont want to amnually upload stuff to launchpad
[14:11] <smoser> and download.cirros-cloud.net is actually akami CDN'd so it would be faster anyway
[14:11] <smoser> *and* i can more easily get logs of those downloads.
[14:11] <smoser> so i really don't want people looking at launchpad, basically.
[14:12] <harmw> ok, well a link from the source page or something would be nice so ppl know where to look for prebuilt images
[14:13] <smoser> this is true.
[14:13] <smoser> :)
[14:13] <harmw> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~cirros-dev/cirros/trunk/view/head:/ChangeLog
[14:13] <smoser> especially since cirros-cloud.net redirects you to launchpad
[14:13] <harmw> most epic changelog ever
[14:14] <harmw> having some decent html on cirros-cloud.net would be nice btw, instead of merely redirecting
[14:14] <smoser> my wife suzanne has promised a cirros logo
[14:14] <smoser> and i've wanted to have a shirt for ODS
[14:14] <harmw> lol nice
[14:14] <smoser> i agree on all of this.
[14:15] <harmw> is this your 'whatever, I'm down with everything'-day?
[14:16] <smoser> :)
[14:16] <smoser> https://launchpad.net/cirros
[14:16] <smoser> that should look better now.
[14:16] <smoser> 2 links to download.cirros-cloud.net
[14:16] <harmw> lol
[14:21] <smoser> did you see this:
[14:21] <smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/cirros/+bug/1273159
[14:21] <smoser> obviously you did
[14:21] <smoser> but is this right:
[14:21] <smoser>  This can be worked around by adding this line to the eth0 stanza of /etc/network/interfaces
[14:21] <smoser> ?
[14:21] <smoser> i can't see how it is
[14:23] <smoser> but maybe
[14:23] <smoser> https://www.mail-archive.com/busybox@busybox.net/msg03985.html
[14:25] <harmw> hm, if thats right it would require the addition of -O staticroutes to go in there as well
[14:25] <smoser> yeah.
[14:25] <harmw> can't verify that right now though
[14:25] <smoser> well, source code makes it seem unlikel
[14:25] <smoser> $ grep -r nodefaultopts .
[14:26] <smoser> shows nothing
[14:26] <smoser> in busybox git
[14:26] <harmw> hm, I believe I've seen that -o somewhere though
[14:26] <harmw> to not ask for default options
[14:27] <harmw> plus, it's no_default_options
[14:30] <smoser> wrt the retries.... on the metadata service
[14:30] <smoser> there were issues on ec2 
[14:30] <smoser> where the metadata servie woudn't come up right away.
[14:30] <smoser> crazy stupid.
[14:30] <harmw> hmk
[14:31] <smoser> but when our ubuntu images first got there we were booting and hitting it before it was up
[14:31] <smoser> and we'd just say "nothing there!"
[14:31] <smoser> so ... poll and retry :-(
[14:31] <harmw> hmk, so 20 retries made sense?
[14:31] <smoser> i think they're probably much better now.
[14:31] <smoser> well, 20 retries covers i think 60 seconds?
[14:31] <smoser> somethin glike that. i think.
[14:34] <smoser> ah. itmeout is 10 seconds . on the curl request
[14:34] <smoser> so it could be up to 20*10 + 20*2 (the nap length)
[14:35] <harmw> yea well, it's a pita having to wait 5 minutes because it takes to long to acquire an ip and trying to contact a non-existant ec2 api :p
[14:37] <smoser> that is kind of silly. we can probably make it do max of 60 seconds.
[14:37] <smoser> it is unreasonable in the first place for the MD to not be there.
[14:38] <harmw> depends on the env, when I'm testing cirros I certainly don't do that in my openstack setup
[14:38] <harmw> but just with qemu, or hyper-v 
[14:39] <harmw> no ec2 api's on either of those
[14:53] <smoser> right. that is reasonable.
[14:53] <smoser> so i'd like to have a (non-root) way to boot the instance with metadata
[14:54] <smoser> ie, like ubuntu  images do (http://ubuntu-smoser.blogspot.com/2013/02/using-ubuntu-cloud-images-without-cloud.html)
[15:03] <harmw> ok, so when there is no ec2 available it firesup a local ds and uses that
[15:05] <harmw> well, fires up.. it just reads in the user-data file which was already there
[15:05] <harmw> perhaps the existence of such a file could (should?) make it skip contacting ec2 in the first place
[15:06] <smoser> yeah, thats what it does harm.
[15:06] <smoser> and you can do that with 0.3.2.
[15:06] <smoser> if you seed those directorries, then it will read from them.
[15:07] <harmw> cool
[15:07] <harmw> then we realy need a proper seed-tool :)
[15:10] <smoser> agreed.
[15:10] <smoser> the thing that sucks is root
[15:10] <smoser> oh. actually, kyou could still attach a config-drive disk.
[15:10] <smoser> and that should work.
[15:10] <smoser> and maybe i did it to allow a "nocloud"
[15:10] <smoser> maybe
[15:11] <smoser> yeah, actually it should
[15:11] <smoser> harmw, you can just attach a nocloud disk. 
[15:12] <harmw> to much hassle :>
[15:12] <smoser> to avoid root
[15:12] <smoser> its worth it. :)
[15:13] <harmw> hehe ,well, I'm cool with using sudo to manipulate images... but yes, have a root-less solution is cool as well
[15:13] <smoser> one other thing you could do in a raw image is have some place in the disk that a tool could just edit straight away
[15:13] <smoser> bu that doesn't work with qcow or any other format
[15:13] <harmw> hehe, raw +1 :>
[15:13] <smoser> and you probably only get like 512 bytes there (this is how grub does things for its 'environment' file)
[15:14] <smoser> well, it knows how to read extX filessystem, but then to just write into those places.
[15:14] <harmw> might be just enough for nocloud
[15:14] <smoser> wll, i dont know. limits user-data.
[15:14] <smoser> one thing that is very useful, and tests a lot of it is just lxc
[15:14] <harmw> true, but normal users probably have ec2 for that
[15:14] <smoser> and with 14.04 you can use lxc without root
[15:15] <smoser> but we'd need to make cirros work well there.
[15:15] <harmw> fair enough
[15:15] <smoser> its not too much hassle to attach a disk. really.
[15:15] <smoser> and if you have:
[15:15] <harmw> no ofc not :)
[15:15] <smoser>  cirros boot kvm --user-data=foo
[15:15] <smoser> then, you dont know of such hassle.
[15:15] <harmw> so true
[15:15] <harmw> but what if I'm testdriving in a hyper-v vm
[15:15] <harmw> which is kind of a pain already
[15:16] <smoser> well, then yo uhave to download the install shield installer 
[15:16] <smoser> and click yes-i-accept
[15:16] <smoser> and then get some DLLs from google some where
[15:16] <smoser> and then reboot
[15:16] <smoser> and *then* you can do it.
[15:16] <harmw> ah yes, the one that requires .net4.5 and which isn't supported on a hyper-v server running Windows Server Core
[15:16] <harmw> funny you
[15:16] <harmw> cirros.msi :>
[15:17] <smoser> windows is *so* well designed for automation
[15:17] <harmw> spare me...
[15:17]  * harmw manages several dozens of Windows systems
[15:17] <smoser> someone pointed me at this a few days ago.
[15:17] <smoser> haven't read it all
[15:17] <smoser> http://www.thoughtworks.com/insights/blog/cloud-based-devops-possible-windows
[15:20] <harmw> "However, it isn’t all sunshine and lollipops. WinRM is actually pretty painful and fiddly to use and PowerShell is an ugly and procedural language."
[15:20] <harmw> so true
[17:12] <harlowja> smoser hey, just got in
[17:12] <smoser> lazy west coast people
[17:12] <smoser> utlemming, did you see  my comments ?
[17:12] <harlowja> haha
[17:13] <harlowja> smoser one that would be nice @ https://code.launchpad.net/~harlowja/cloud-init/local-before-net/+merge/211783
[17:14] <harlowja> to fix the issue where cloud-init-local starts after networking
[17:14] <smoser> ugh.
[17:14] <smoser> well, that only fixes in sysvinit
[17:14] <smoser> (not rhel6, right?)
[17:14] <smoser> *and* that would then differ from other distros
[17:15] <harlowja> sure, idk the ordering of other distros, since systemd and ordering isn't so easy to figure out
[17:16] <smoser> right. i dont think its guanrteed
[17:18] <harlowja> sure, so don't the other files also need to have this start before networking?
[17:18] <harlowja> *this == cloud-init-local
[17:21] <smoser> harlowja, ?
[17:21] <smoser> i dont understand
[17:22] <harlowja> guess the question is should the other files be adjusted also?
[17:23] <smoser> harlowja, theres no way to do it in ubuntu.
[17:23] <smoser> i dont think
[17:23] <smoser> well, at least not more invasive than i'd lke to go at this point.
[17:25] <harlowja> k, so i guess then maybe systemd needs to be adjusted, in the rhel5/6 that i'm y! using we are using those sysvinit scripts
[17:26] <harlowja> brb
[17:36] <harlowja> ok back
[17:38]  * harlowja had to do apple security update crap
[17:38] <harlowja> anyways smoser we can debate that later, i'm fine with the next release afaik
[17:39] <harlowja> be nice to have sean here push the freesbsd stuff, but i can't seem to find him
[17:39] <harlowja> oh, i found him online 
[17:39] <harlowja> lol
[17:44] <harlowja> but he's not responding, sad face
[17:44] <harlowja> lol
[17:58] <harlowja> harmw so sean is currently sucked back into the mail vortex :(
[17:58] <harmw> haha lol
[17:58] <harlowja> maybe more blackhole
[18:05] <harlowja> harmw bugging him about maybe when he'll have some time free from mail
[18:13] <harlowja> he says maybe end of this week :-/
[18:15] <harmw> ok :)