=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [01:18] Dunno if anyone's gonna see this but for Commodore C64 fans .. #kickstarter projects (2) [01:19] A) C64: A Visual Commpendium - Launch Video ... march 1st starts .. seems alright. I guess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhX4_nUFUD0 [01:24] B) C64 In a new biscuit tin for £75 plus courier from US running : MMBASIC (MaxiMite BASIC) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/818225433/maximite-bbx-the-modern-day-basic-language-compute?ref=live [01:25] note that (B) finishes in when (A) starts, at the beginning of March ~14 [01:27] I guess a reference for an Raspi Pi happy coders for MMBasic is on their page under the FAQ - http://goo.gl/H5iqIp [01:28] #beddington Offsk.ies [01:28] leaves [01:28] wat. [02:27] err [02:27] was that a troll? [02:28] pretty damned random and in the middle of the night [06:15] that was redtape [06:16] probably [06:48] too mcuh ketamin again [06:48] :_ [06:48] :) [06:51] hm] [07:00] hello all [07:45] * popey stabs directhex with the flu [07:46] cruel [07:46] well.. I woke up to see this notification... [07:46] 23:40:11 < directhex> daftykins or popey, whomever is more awake gets secret info. THE OTHER WILL BE LEFT IN THE DARK [07:47] popey: I bet he's not even up himself yet! [08:07] popey: that wasn't nice posting that pic of your breakfast on twitter :p [08:11] morning [08:14] morning bashrc [08:14] hah [08:14] it was yummy [08:15] :p [08:16] popey: Darkness is good... :P [08:16] so being left there isnt bad... [08:16] or in other words "ignorance is bliss" :D [08:18] i was up at 5:45. thanks, toddler! [08:18] directhex: that late eh ;) [08:21] I was woken by a cat trying to login to my imac [08:21] *boop* [08:21] *boop* [08:21] popey: hahahah [08:21] *b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-boop* [08:22] popey: we don't believe you, everybody makes up cat on keyboard stories.... :P :P :P :P [08:23] this is the only reason I got up early and made a nice brekkie for wifey [08:23] because I was already up thanks to sky [08:24] mirv has the best keyboard + cat story [08:24] http://www.kernelcat.com/ [08:25] LOL [08:29] Morning all [08:29] morning DJones [08:30] Hey MooDoo [08:32] MooDoo: do you actually do something at work or just sit on irc...? :P [08:32] the latter [08:33] * jussi giggles and shoots nerf rockets at MooDoo [08:33] jussi: oi shut it [08:33] hehehe [08:33] MooDoo: got splinters in your butt? :P [08:33] jussi: ow ow ow ow ow [08:34] I work with two monitors so can have irc on one and work on the other, i'm just that good :) [08:34] MooDoo: pfft :P [08:35] The good news is, you're probably having a better day than this guy. http://i.imgur.com/J7Qw7Ka.gif [08:36] Chromecast \o/ [08:36] oh dear [08:37] popey: thats just nasty... [08:38] popey: did you end up buying a hdmi splitter? [08:38] no, I'm waiting for you to tell me which one to buy ☻ [08:39] popey: heh, not the one I bought in nycase... :( [08:39] Yes, I noted that ☻ [08:39] oh and that word always brings this clip to mind :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE [08:56] popey, thanks for the pointer to kdenlive, it's doing exactly what i needed it to [08:58] With the courier to be delivered [08:58] 19/03/2014 08:37 Received by the recipient's local courier [08:58] ;o [08:59] morning boys and girls. [09:01] Good morning all; happy Chocolate Caramel Day! :-D [09:02] you set a clip with a "composite" transition, and that transition lets you pick arbitrary scaling values [09:11] Good morning peeps :) [09:14] morning bigcalm [09:28] http://helloworldopen.com/ [09:29] morning bigcalm brobostigon Myrtti :) [09:35] directhex: yay [09:39] * foobarry opens a chocolate orange in defiance [09:39] foobarry: good man [09:42] morning MooDoo [09:43] anyone here done LPIC-1 ? [09:47] popey: did you order new socks? [09:47] no [09:47] I'm not too keen on Argyle myself [09:47] are we talking those nice socks? they are a bit pricey though [09:49] Myrtti: foldio just arrived [09:49] 30USD? depends on what you're used to paying [09:49] M&S fresh feet [09:52] MooDoo: I've started working towards it and seen everyone else here pushed through it if that's any help :) [09:52] BigRedS: yeah i'm applying for more canonical jobs that mention lpic so I think it's where i need to go [09:57] foobarry: that's not comparable, these are flight compression socks [10:42] 4th tutorial video recorded [10:48] popey: did your Foldio tracking code ever work on parcelforce website? [10:48] never tried [11:10] :-D http://www.nrk.no/piipshow/about-the-piip-show-1.11575642 [11:11] Norweirdgians ;) [11:13] finns are worse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLKiknDbFjA&feature=kp [11:14] Morning all [11:14] morning davmor2 [11:15] MooDoo: loved you black selfie :) [11:15] davmor2: yeah I thought it was funny :D [11:23] If any one is interested and I hope I'm not out of line in posting this but there is a IRC Operator team meeting today at 18:00UTC if you're interested :D [11:30] ops plz [11:30] man I miss op begging [11:30] what happened to that? [11:34] Services ;) [11:34] try visiting ircnet some time.. ops begging galore [11:34] Laney: say it at the meeting :p [11:35] well, you could beg to be added to the ACL [11:36] I guess I only hang around in grown up channels now ... [11:36] Laney: I joined the launchpad teams for ubuntu and ubuntu-offtopic, noy saying i'm gonna get it, but I can ask :D [11:48] http://tumbleweed.popey.com/ [11:53] can't talk; watching budget [11:53] ok, pc mostly built... off to maplin to fill in minor gaps [11:55] oh yeah budget [11:56] what a waste of time. took the bus to the bank and couldn't open an account because they didn't have any forms [12:00] foobarry: try first direct I've heard good things of them by a lot of their users [12:00] foobarry: they are just online/phone [12:00] "minor gaps" thats the cooling system ventilation [12:00] how do you prove things about yourself? birth certs etc? [12:01] yeah birth certificate, driving license, utility bill [12:01] foobarry: no idea [12:01] how do you do that with an online bank? [12:02] sometimes they ask you to fax off the information or email it to them....trouble is if you've not got a scanner etc. [12:02] foobarry: I have no idea they get around it some how [12:02] this is for my kids [12:02] ah [12:03] foobarry: I said I've heard good things about them, I don't use them but the 2 guys I know who have accounts with them swear by them and won't go anywhere else [12:07] FD don't seem to do kids accounts [12:09] FD? [12:11] first dfirect [12:11] MooDoo: its called a smartphone camera :P [12:12] I _love_ the banking systems in Finland - Im sure Myrtti can say similar (with no mentions of a certain bank and java sw) [12:18] theyve moved out of using it [12:26] oh good, nearly Budget time [12:44] "oh good" [13:06] Myrtti: oh, that is nice news === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch [13:21] come on [13:21] give the whole allowance to cash isas [13:21] excellent [13:22] typical schizophrenic tory budget [13:22] tobacco duty to continue increasing as there's "no health benefit" [13:22] but alcohol duty escalator scrapped, and beer duty cut by 1p? [13:33] sounds ok [13:33] BEER!!! [13:33] cigs are bad, alcoholl can be enjoyed in moderation and keeps populace happy [13:33] i'm pretty sure booze is unhealthy [13:34] neuro: only in unhealthy quntities [13:34] not the amount i drink [13:34] especially wine, red wine is very good in small quantaties [13:34] i drink port [13:34] in a very small glass [13:34] with a piece of shortbread [13:34] I love port. [13:35] so if i have one cig a week, i should be penalised? [13:35] yes [13:35] because? [13:35] it only damages you. [13:35] foobarry: you put pieces of shortbread into a small glass of port! There is something wrong with you dude ;) [13:35] you probably poinced it off someone [13:35] and didn't buy a packet [13:36] smoking is a luxury way to kill yourself. [13:36] alcohol in moderation is good/ok. cigarettes in moderation are still bd [13:36] * neuro lights up another death stick [13:36] stuff the lot of you :) [13:36] heh [13:36] neuro: have you considered robo-fags? [13:37] no [13:37] why not? [13:37] in know aquarius loves to jack-in and charge up his leccy-fags [13:37] it's just as hazardous as smoking real cigs and it's completely unlicensed and unregulated [13:37] they will ban ecigs indoors soon [13:37] good [13:37] citation needed [13:38] i suspect they won't [13:38] " it's just as hazardous as smoking real cigs" [13:38] and it'll be down to the individual company [13:38] popey: they are doing it in states [13:38] do you have any idea what's in these cylinders? [13:38] you do if you mix your own [13:38] i see a number of people making their own mix on t'internet [13:38] also you are not breathing in smoke [13:38] seems quite a popular pasttime [13:38] popey: yeah passive vapouring :D [13:38] foobarry: you're still breathing in chemicals [13:38] yeah [13:38] also, a smoker saying"do you know whats in those things is a bit much" [13:39] is it? [13:39] the most common concern is that because they're not regulated, we don't actually know what the long-term threat is. "just as dangerous" is as unprovable as "no danger at all" [13:40] that too [13:40] yeah [13:40] no long term scientific study [13:40] lets vape while we can! :D [13:40] at least with cigs i know what i'm getting into [13:40] lol [13:40] see 40 years ago with ciggies [13:40] just don't do either :P [13:40] no [13:41] it's called an addiction for a reason [13:41] i thought it was a hobby [13:41] not at these prices [13:41] the speaker of the house has a hilarious accent [13:41] it was a hobby when you started [13:41] is it from liverpool? [13:41] neuro: that's "resignation to being addicted" [13:41] popey: deputy speaker [13:41] ah [13:41] milliband is such a tool. he was the annoying kid in class [13:41] he's no more a tool than the rest of the muppets in parliament [13:41] the commons is a joke [13:42] listen to them just now [13:42] the wallace and gromit likeness is too much for me [13:42] (and "you're still breathing in chemicals" is scare-mongering. you're breathing in chemicals even if you don't smoke. silly oxygen-addicts) [13:42] this is meant to be an opposition response to the budget, not a classroom full of ADHD-afflicted kids [13:42] don't touch that h2o [13:42] shauno: whatever makes you sleep at night :) [13:43] dioxyhydroxide has been proven fatal though ;) [13:43] shauno: it's also been proven that the more birthdays you've had, the likelier you are to die! [13:43] this is why we have the RNLI trying to prevent overdoses [13:43] good news about 40% rate of tax [13:44] is it? [13:44] argh [13:44] No Girls Aloud!? [13:44] i thought they were raising it loads [13:44] they aren't [13:44] good [13:46] :-| [13:47] Threshold for 40p income tax to rise from £41,450 to £41,865 next month and by a further 1% to £42,285 next year [13:47] have to continue giving loads to charity then [13:47] will they call the new combined ISA a tessa? [13:48] "The New ISA" [13:48] 40p income tax or 40%? :) [13:48] same thing [13:48] neuro: nah, £42000-40p != £42000-40% [13:48] it means 40 pence on the pound [13:48] so 40% [13:49] ah [13:49] is it not only applied to earnings above 42k? ie. if you earn 50k, the 40% tax rate is only appied to the ~8k about 42? [13:49] and we operate on a graduated income tax rate [13:50] £0-31,865 = 20% [13:50] £31,866 - 150,000 = 40% [13:50] >£150,000 = 45% [13:50] jussi: yes [13:50] plus a tax free allowance of £0-10,000 = 0% where eligible, i.e. first income [13:51] but if you give to charrideee then that comes off the top of your income [13:51] but if you give to charidee, then you don't have that income any more [13:51] * neuro is mercenary, a fiver to ORG every month aside [13:51] yes, but since most people do, its handy to reclaim the tax [13:52] some people give 15% of their earning [13:52] good for them [13:52] glad they can afford it [13:52] i can't [13:53] thats cos u smoke ;) [13:53] * foobarry ducks [13:53] nowt to do with that [13:53] i'm just now emerging from Stupid Times with Credit [13:55] 40% tax rate shift is just a tax cut for the rich [13:55] yup [13:55] Our (dutch) taxes are €0-19645 -> 36.25%; €19646-56531 -> 42%; €56532 and up: 52% [13:55] plus they benefit from the increase in tax free allowance [13:55] holy crap [13:55] high tax is OK if it works [13:55] yes [13:55] e.g. denmark [13:56] UK and US suffer from scale [13:56] neuro: There's a HUGE way to get money back for home owners though (some huge percentage of interest paid on mortgages is deductible) [13:57] i think a large number of people don't understand how the tax system works === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:58] they think that if they get a pay rise from 40k to 41k then that means they suddenly pay twice as much tax [13:58] MIRAS gone canned in the 90s [13:58] ali1234: s/the tax system/anything in the world/ [13:58] ali1234: although they do lose a lot of other benfits [13:58] e.g. child benefit [13:58] i think employers specifically use this confusion to say things like "well, if i give you a pay rise it will put you into the next tax bracket and you will end up with less" (which is of course impossible) [13:58] not a very sliding scale [13:58] so don't have kids [13:59] you should be able to pool the tax with your spouse [13:59] my wife is a full time mum, so i should be able to aggrgate our earnings [13:59] if your wife is a full time mum, what earnings is she getting? [14:00] no you shouldn't [14:00] we are a family unity [14:00] unit [14:00] and also all the food and stuff you buy for your family should be taxed as payment in kind [14:00] :) [14:00] we're not a company [14:01] there you go then [14:01] i'm not alllowed to pay my wife 10k pa [14:01] sure you are [14:01] u sure? [14:01] as long as you pay the Class A NICs and the PAYE etc [14:01] that's below minimum wage [14:01] so no, you;re not [14:02] hehe [14:02] could pay her for 16hrs/week part time [14:02] why? [14:02] as long as she works 24 hrs a week in another job, and then pays tax on that too [14:02] I didn't think we had any laws about minimum wage. [14:02] £6.31/hr [14:03] ah ok, perhaps it was the US that doesnt have them. [14:03] https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates [14:03] lots of plumbers "employ" their wife [14:03] I was half listening to something on the radio the other day about it. [14:03] to be paid from the company [14:03] dwatkins: US statutory minimum wage is $7.25/hr [14:03] Myrtti: http://imgur.com/cWxhOty,Y4QJ8ub first couple of pics taken with my foldio [14:03] i can “If your wife is not a director of the company, and does not have a contract of employment, then you must then you must pay her at least the National Minimum Wage.” [14:04] why "must" you pay her? [14:04] this is all very confusing [14:04] popey: nice [14:06] popey: lego model would be better ;) [14:06] true [14:06] if i had a company then i could pay her 10k pa and she would not pay tax on it [14:06] foobarry: you'd still have to pay NI [14:06] corporation tax is much lower than 40% income tax [14:07] IT contractors seem to do OK out of the arrangement [14:07] no, they really don't [14:07] yeah in my opinion you should have to pay it on top of income tax [14:07] popey: it would also tell you how good the colours were too :) [14:08] effectively, it should be mandatory for you to pay your wife minimum wage + VAT (because you're not a company) and then she should register as self employed and pay income tax on that money [14:08] i think this is the most fair arrangement [14:09] VAT isn't payable on wages [14:09] it's not wages [14:09] it's a salary [14:09] not it's not [14:09] so it's a supplier arrangement then? [14:09] exactly [14:09] it's as if you hired someone to cook and clean your house 40 hours a week [14:10] thats not why people pay their wives though [14:10] i know it's not [14:10] i am not being totally serious either [14:10] many plumbers also accept cash quite happily [14:10] s/plumbers/workers/ [14:11] foobarry suggested he should be able to use his wife's unused personal allowance against his own tax [14:11] i was merely explaining why he already gets a good deal :) [14:11] That wouldn't surprise me, it's only plumbers I've had say that they will accept cash. [14:11] cash is 'acceptable', wink wink nudge nudge [14:13] "pooling" of income, to me, sounds discriminatory at any rate [14:13] s/at any rate/in any case/ just to make it clear i'm not talking about tax rates [14:13] who would qualify? [14:14] if applicable to married couples, would that cover civil partnerships? [14:14] and it would be discriminatory to unmarried couples and single workers [14:14] that's sort of how it works here. I can use my wife's tax credits [14:14] yeah, tax credits are one thing [14:15] but it's quite another to say "husband earns £31K, wife earns £24K, let's bundle it to £55K and only charge tax rates on the bundle" [14:15] so, eg, while she was unemployed, my ceiling for base-rate tax was increased [14:15] and in fact, that's probably a more lunatic way to do it [14:15] since you'd lose out on two sets of tax free allowances, and you'd get hit with the 40% rate instead of not at all [14:16] that's not what anyone suggested [14:16] 13:59 my wife is a full time mum, so i should be able to aggrgate our earnings [14:16] yes [14:16] and also double all the rate thresholds [14:16] where was that mentioned? [14:16] that's what he meant [14:17] what would be the point otherwise? [14:17] that sounds equally stupid [14:17] if his wife has no earnings then it wouldn't affect his tax situation at all unless you did that [14:17] oh i see what you're saying [14:18] so that makes it even worse [14:18] example: you earn 10K and your wife earns 10K. neither of you pays tax. you earn 20K and your wife earns 0. neither of you pays tax under foobarry's suggested system [14:18] yup, discriminatory [14:18] and would probably lead to tax revenue shortfall [14:19] i wonder how many fake marriages that would lead to :) [14:19] that's my basic impression of how it works here (nb: I barely understand taxes. I've resigned myself to believe they're not meant to be understood) [14:20] they're pretty straightforward, at least the basic tenets of UK income tax are [14:20] i wonder how little extra i'll get in my april wages with the allowance change [14:21] listentotaxman reckons about a tenner [14:22] under my suggested system, a spouse with 0 income would be assumed to be being payed minimum wage and be required to pay tax on that [14:22] so: your income 10K - no tax: spouse's income 0 - must pay tax as if they earned minimum wage [14:22] ..why? [14:22] well my system is a system which is as horribly biased as what foobarry suggested, but in the opposite direction [14:23] it pays to be single? :) [14:23] and arguably just as "fair" [14:23] you realise on minimum wage you still pay tax [14:23] neuro: yes, that's the point [14:23] £6.31/hr @ 37.5hrs/wk = £12.3Kpa [14:23] gross [14:23] why is my system biased? [14:24] it's biased towards people able to double up their salaries together [14:24] just to pay less tax [14:24] but they share a bank account, they do douvble slaries [14:24] or, you know, you could just pay tax [14:24] so what? [14:25] it's open to abuse [14:25] I don't see why it's biased [14:25] because it's biased towards people able to double up their salaries together [14:25] i'm not married, how do I do it? i can't [14:25] split the couple up, the working partner pays his "fair" taxes, and the non-working partner receives housing benefits, unemployment benefits, etc [14:26] still confused [14:26] i don't like being confused [14:26] we should stop making things up that aren't going to happen [14:26] have the working partner assume thoses costs of the non-working partner, and suddenly you cry foul? [14:26] shauno: that is my suggestion [14:26] "assume those costs"? [14:26] i was talking about foobarry's suggestio [14:26] n [14:27] yes, so am I [14:27] shauno: have the working partner "assume" the costs at market rate, by paying the none working partner minimum wage. and then tax it. [14:27] too many crazy suggestions [14:27] or you could JUST PAY YOUR TAXES NORMALLY LIKE THE REST OF US [14:27] one important requirement of a tax code is that it be indecipherable [14:27] real-world example. my wife became unemployed. she went to see what benefits she could receive. the answer was "very little, because I make over x" [14:27] yup [14:28] because you're deemed, together, to be financially capable [14:28] the fact that I could use her tax cutoff is the balance to this. otherwise it's skewed towards single people [14:28] it's decided that it should be personal responsibility to make ends meet by whatever means necessary [14:28]