/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/03/21/#ubuntu-us-mi.txt

rick_h_smoser: http://developer.rackspace.com/blog/using-cloud-init-with-rackspace-cloud.html woot02:12
jrwrenoh man, if that is woot I should really blog about what we are doing with cloud-init :)02:39
rick_h_jrwren: you're also providing a cloud that gives me free hosting?02:41
jrwrenno02:42
rick_h_no woot then :P02:42
jrwrenrackspace gives you free hosting?02:42
rick_h_yea, bookie at least02:42
jrwrenwhoa, very good of them.02:43
rick_h_but it's so painful to use I've not taken advantage of it02:43
jrwrenwhy do they do that?02:43
rick_h_OSS program, good pub, get devs using it02:43
jrwrencool.02:43
rick_h_a lot of python stuff is running on rackspace donated cloud stuff02:43
jrwrenboto works with rackspace.02:43
jrwrenso where is the pain?02:43
rick_h_With jessee noller taking over their stuff02:43
rick_h_the whole 'getting a root password' etc02:43
rick_h_I can't juju it :(02:43
jrwrenyou should blame juju.02:44
rick_h_and it only recently (Feb here) got cloud-init02:44
jrwreni don't believe that.02:44
rick_h_heh, I'll have to see if twitter will let me pull up my posts with their cloud guy02:44
rick_h_they run openstack, but without cloud init02:44
jrwrenuser-data has been in openstack for a long time.02:44
jrwrenthey do?!!?   wtf?!??!02:44
rick_h_yep, they didn't have that enabled02:44
rick_h_verified and complained about over a year ago02:44
rick_h_that's why this url is 'woot!'02:45
rick_h_FINALLY!02:45
rick_h_:)02:45
rick_h_jrwren: https://twitter.com/search?q=rackspace%20cloud-init&src=typd02:46
rick_h_https://twitter.com/jessenoller/status/37545809154791424102:46
rick_h_anyway, all cool now. Will have to find time to take another stab at getting something decent going02:47
mrgoodcatso endeth the trick02:54
jrwrenthat is nuts.02:54
jrwrencloud servers are useless without user-data02:54
jrwrenUSELESS>02:54
jrwrenin fact, I'd go as far as to say its not a real cloud :p02:55
mrgoodcathello02:56
jrwrenso wait... the cloudimg didn't have cloud-init installed or user-data didn't work or both?02:57
jcastron0p, ping?03:02
mrgoodcatjrwren: didn't have cloud-init installed03:03
mrgoodcatat least03:03
mrgoodcatidk what else they changed03:03
mrgoodcatin python, is there a way to define interfaces/abstract classes? or am i supposed to just create a class with the functions i want and make them just raise exceptions then subclass it and override them?03:08
mrgoodcatin other words is this "pythonic" http://hastebin.com/sarijujegu.py?03:10
rick_h_mrgoodcat: it's done, not sure on pythonic03:16
mrgoodcati'm looking into either abc or zobpe.interface right now03:17
mrgoodcatzope*03:17
rick_h_http://docs.python.org/2/library/abc.html03:17
rick_h_yea03:17
rick_h_most part I think it's duck typing all the way. try/except03:17
rick_h_vs getting to built up03:17
cmaloneyjcastro: I think n0p just idles in here.03:18
mrgoodcatnot sure if that sounded better in your head but i didn't quite get your grammar there03:18
cmaloneyHaven't seen him say anything for a while now03:18
rick_h_lol, I'm beat sorry03:18
mrgoodcatnbd03:18
mrgoodcatwe can talk tomorrow if you'd rather03:18
rick_h_basically why not just define the classes, when you call methods on instances wrap in try/except vs throwing exception from a base03:18
mrgoodcati don't get properly in my zone until midnight03:19
rick_h_it's what testing is for, make sure it works like you're expecting03:19
rick_h_or use abc or zope03:19
mrgoodcati guess i could try except03:20
mrgoodcati'm used to the java way, where interface is definitely called for here03:20
rick_h_yea, and that's not really the python way03:20
rick_h_see the dunder magic methods03:20
rick_h_you don't declare you're an iterable, you just act like an iterable03:21
mrgoodcatthis? http://www.rafekettler.com/magicmethods.html03:21
rick_h_mrgoodcat: yea03:23
rick_h_these are all ways of duck typing your way into being python built ins03:24
mrgoodcatat least this isn't my first experience with duck typing03:24
mrgoodcati think i can handle this03:25
mrgoodcatthe problem is i'm going to be having other people write modules that i'm loading, and they have to implement specific functions or it won't work. i was looking for a way to force them to write them properly03:26
wafmrgoodcat: think of iterable in python. nothing prevents you from writing "for x in 5: print(x)"03:28
wafit just throws an exception saying "hey jerkface, ints aren't iterable"03:28
wafyou could do something similar, throw an exception saying "not a valid module" or whatever is appropriate for your scenario03:29
mrgoodcati was hoping for a compile time error03:29
mrgoodcatthat won't error until it runs03:29
mrgoodcati guess it wont matter if it never gets called03:29
wafyou're a ruby guy. isn't ruby the same way? you don't have compiler errors for this sort of thing, right?03:30
mrgoodcati'm a ruby guy yes03:30
mrgoodcati've never had this specific problem in ruby though03:30
mrgoodcater rather i've never felt the need to solve it03:31
mrgoodcati don't HAVE to properly handle bad modules. i could just let the program crash. if i was writing it for myself i might do that. but other people have to write these modules so i wanted a way to validate that it's correct03:32
wafwell it looks like that abc thing will give you some protection/validation03:36
wafi haven't used it, though03:36
mrgoodcati decided to let it go03:44
mrgoodcatif they make functions that don't work, the thread will just die03:44
mrgoodcats/functions/modules03:44
mrgoodcatwhat about immutable data structures? i can't seem to find one in python03:49
mrgoodcator a way to make them i should say03:50
rick_h_tuples03:51
rick_h_strings technically03:51
rick_h_are immutable03:51
mrgoodcattuples are immutable?03:51
mrgoodcatdidn't know that03:51
mrgoodcatTypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment03:52
mrgoodcatty03:53
mrgoodcatwoot my mod notebook just shipped :)04:19
brouschrick_h_: Damn emails are pouring in this morning. Easily 100 proposals and comments on PSF stuff since I went to bed. Ug12:21
rick_h_brousch: lol yea12:24
rick_h_we had another bunch of proposals12:24
rick_h_we've over 2012:24
brouschcrazy12:24
rick_h_24 I think total12:24
rick_h_I stopped looking, was working past 10pm last night so no bookie time12:24
smoserjrwren, you could12:37
smoseryou should blog about that.12:37
smoserrick_h_, thanks for pointing me at that.12:40
jrwrenIMO interfaces and even abstract classes are not pythonic. They get in the way of duck typing.13:12
cmaloneygood morning13:13
rick_h_morning13:19
rick_h_smoser: cool, yea it's interesting. Would be cool to add juju support to them but they've gone all salt it seems13:20
jcastroman, jjesse totally missed my troll on G+13:21
jcastroI said "there are two great Michigan teams in the tourney" this year13:22
rick_h_jcastro: :P13:23
jcastroget it?13:23
jcastro2 great teams!13:23
jcastroMSU and Western!13:23
rick_h_we'll see13:24
jcastrodo you like how I didn't even acknowledge the existance of the wolverines?13:25
rick_h_jcastro: I like that everyone and their mother is picking MSU which I will take as a sign you're doomed13:25
rick_h_:)13:26
jcastroyeah13:26
jcastroeven the President13:26
rick_h_doomed13:26
jcastrobut whatever, I've been saying that since the beginning of the season13:26
jcastroit sucks that people are bandwagonning now13:26
rick_h_so I'll wait until you're out and we're still in, then you'll hear from me13:26
jcastroyeah like last year, lol13:26
jcastrowell, look at OSU, already gone, lol13:27
jcastrothat's hilarious13:27
rick_h_nothing wrong with that13:27
smoserrick_h_, well, just because a cloud provider prefers technology-A there is no reason that its users cannot prefer technology-B13:27
smoserright?13:28
rick_h_smoser: oh definitely13:28
smoserits pretty much a known "best practice" to give MSU one game more than they "should" win.13:28
jcastroan all-Michigan championship game would be incredible13:30
jcastrowell, other than Arizona killing everyone13:30
jrwreni thought western was out and umich advanced.13:31
jcastroyeah13:31
jcastroI made the comment yesterday before everyone played though13:31
jrwrenoh! I missed it.13:32
jcastrotried to have wings at the new BW3 last night, but forgot U-M was about to start playing13:32
jcastroso there was like an hour long wait13:32
smoserindiana has zero teams in the NCAA tournament.13:32
jrwrenjcastro: Womens lacrosse played at the big house last night. You could have gone to that!13:32
smoserthey've had 6 before. (purdue valporaiso evansville noter dame indiana butler indiana state ... none of them.)13:33
jcastrowell my day is off to a good start13:33
jcastrobooked a meeting, no one showed up, lol13:33
rick_h_heh, sitting in the same boat atm jcastro13:33
smoserhey. i just did this: http://smoser.brickies.net/git/?p=tildabin.git;a=blob;f=ssh-via;13:35
smoserif you ssh through "bounce hosts" a lot and don't like editing .ssh/config in order to do so, that might help13:35
smoser(canonical uses bounchosts extensively)13:35
jrwrensmoser: ha! cool.13:37
smosernow with improved usage (which i thought i pushed initially)13:38
cmaloneyGood morning13:45
jrwrengreat morning!13:50
smoserhe told you, cmaloney13:51
brouschcmaloney: Your tiny font in email hurts my eyes13:56
brouschI wonder why it's so tiny13:57
cmaloneybrousch: Because it was copy / pasted from the mailer daemon that won't let me use decafbad.net as a surrogate for my Google mail.14:01
cmaloneyIf someone would riddle me how to add an email address to my Google account that has the same rights and privileges as my gmail account for Google Groups please let me know.14:02
brouschHost it on google apps for your domain14:03
rick_h_jcastro: so I'm not allowed to answer http://askubuntu.com/questions/437361/laptop-friendly-alternatives-to-unity-window-placement-shortcuts?sgp=2 with "USE A TILING WM!"14:03
rick_h_?14:04
jrwrengoogle sucks. stop using their stuff.14:08
jrwrenI think google's quality is now below that of microsoft.14:08
rick_h_jrwren: so you've got that windows phone?14:08
rick_h_and using skype for all your video calling needs?14:09
rick_h_:P14:09
jrwrenmaybe next phone. i'm rocking at almost 4 yr old iphone14:09
brouschWhat's the Windows equivalent of Google Groups? Even the Google-hating Windows-loving groups here use Yahoo Groups14:09
cmaloneyjrwren: Please point to Microsoft's free mailing list with newsgroups.14:11
cmaloneythough I'm not particularly thrilled with Google Groups either14:12
jrwreni'm looking.14:12
cmaloneybut they don't make me want to throw up in my mouth like Yahoo Groups.14:12
jrwreni thought they used to have something.14:12
jrwrenhttps://onedrive.live.com/?v=GroupView14:13
cmaloneyNeeds a one drive account14:13
jrwrenyeah.14:13
cmaloneywhich is the equivalent of telling me to go fuck myself. :)14:13
jrwrenno.14:13
jrwrenthe account is what used to be a live account14:13
jrwrenstill is called a live account I think14:14
jrwrenif you ever created an MSFT account in the past 10 yrs, try that.14:14
cmaloneyAssumption: I've used a Microsoft online service in the past 20 years.14:14
jrwrenok.14:14
cmaloney;)14:14
jrwrenno different than the gmail assumption you have now.14:14
cmaloneyjrwren: My complaint is I have my gmail forwarded home14:15
cmaloneyso I read my mail via Thunderbird / Mutt14:15
cmaloneyand whenever I respond to a mail it doesn't know me from Adam.14:15
cmaloneyso it bounces.14:15
brouschYou can join a Google group with a gmail address14:16
cmaloneyAnd I'm not seeing an obvious way to add this14:16
brouschwithout14:16
cmaloney^^14:16
jrwrenreally?14:16
brouschyes14:17
cmaloneyThey used to make it pretty obvious14:17
cmaloneyand now I'm not seeing how to do this.14:17
jrwreni don't know. my live login is jrwren@xmtp.net and has been for 10-15 yrs.14:17
jrwrenoh you are talking about google apps.14:17
cmaloneyYes.14:17
jrwrengoogle apps is broken. get used to i.14:17
cmaloneyNobody uses Microsoft outside of the desktop14:17
cmaloneyexcept for my mom who refuses to get rid of her God damn hotmail account.14:17
brouschMy sister still has an aol account14:18
cmaloneyThis does not surprise me.14:18
jrwrenthat is like saying nobody uses yahoo.14:22
jrwrenwhy not this? http://www.freelists.org/14:22
brouschI love google Groups14:24
cmaloneyFirst I'm seeing this.14:24
brouschUse it through email, or like a forum. Good moderation tools14:25
cmaloneyWhich means it'll get cut in the next plussification. ;)14:25
cmaloneyBookie Communities FTW.14:25
brouschIt is possible. I don't see how google is making money from it14:27
=== dickweed_ is now known as mrgoodcat
mrgoodcatwtf just happened to my server room?15:07
mrgoodcatevery single server just rebooted15:08
greg-gpower flap?15:08
brouschmrgoodcat: Sorry about that15:08
mrgoodcateach server has its own ups and the room has a backup generator15:09
mrgoodcatits the one at work not home15:09
mrgoodcatwhich means my headache is just about to start15:09
brouschMaybe a power surge so big it overwhelmed all of the UPSes?15:10
mrgoodcatwould have to be a big power surge...15:11
brouschget out the fire extinguisher15:12
jrwrenssh backdoor decided to prank you with a distributed reboot15:31
Havenstancemrgoodcat, that zen you wouldn't happen to have an idea of how to limit traffic between subnets would you?16:00
Havenstancenvm I figured it out :)16:05
HavenstanceThanks again for that recommendation its working beautifully thus far16:05
mrgoodcatHavenstance: glad to hear it16:39
mrgoodcatturns out it wasn't as bad as i thought16:39
mrgoodcatwe had 2 machines on one psu that went bad16:39
mrgoodcatthe 2 machines just happened to be essential parts of what i was doing at the time16:39
jrwrena PDU failure? those suck.16:40
mrgoodcater not psu, ups16:40
mrgoodcatit just took a minute for the failover servers to take over16:40
jrwrenautomated failover!  fancy!16:41
mrgoodcatwell not fancy enough obviously16:42
Havenstancelol16:59
Havenstanceit apparently doesn't play nice with any encrypted drives at all though16:59
cmaloneyheh17:04
mrgoodcatzenytal doesn't?17:06
mrgoodcatwhat's your encryption scheme?17:07
mrgoodcatHavenstance: it shoul17:09
Havenstancemrgoodcat, i had the home folder encrypted17:09
Havenstancedid it with ubuntu install17:09
Havenstancewhen I installed Zentyal-Desktop the firefox was broken17:10
HavenstanceReinstalled with no encrypted reinstalled zentyal and it works like a charm17:10
HavenstanceI honestly believe that its a mounting issue because it says that the profile is missing or something like that17:10
Havenstanceif i chown the firefox dir in the home dir it launches and asks to create a profile17:11
mrgoodcatoh. we use encrypted lvm and it works fine17:11
Havenstancemaybe its just having the home drive encrypted that gives it a problem then?17:17
Havenstancethat or I need to chown the dir and create the profile and let it do what it does17:17
mrgoodcatnot sure17:18
Havenstanceeither way im not going to sweat the load too much, I have it working so that's really all that matters17:19
Havenstancecould have even been some corrupted packets in the first install17:19
Havenstanceits working now so that's all the matters. if I could use true crypt to encrypt the eventual storage drives that will be in this machine then i'll be happy with it which im sure I can do.17:20
mrgoodcatso, in python you can take any object and just set any attribute even if it doesn't exist.(import os; os.sadf = 'hi'). is this intentional and/or useful for anything?17:31
cmaloneyyes17:39
cmaloneyyes17:39
cmaloneyand yes17:39
mrgoodcatany trivial example?17:40
HavenstanceThis firewall is going to upset me lol17:40
cmaloneymrgoodcat: you just showed one. :)17:40
mrgoodcati can't think of a situation where i'd need that17:42
mrgoodcatHavenstance: something wrong?17:42
cmaloneymrgoodcat: I think it's best summarised this way:17:43
cmaloneyJust because you lack imagination doesn't mean it's wrong. :)17:43
Havenstancemrgoodcat, not sure how to get the traffic from subnet 1 2 and 3 to run through the server but not across with the exception of subnet 1 i want it to be able to talk to all 317:44
cmaloneyThe non-cagey answer is because it's part of how objects are implemented in Python17:44
HavenstanceI know its a simple two click process im missing but its still a pain17:44
cmaloneyand it would take more code to prevent you from doing it than turning a blind eye to it.17:44
Havenstanceright now my addresses are number 10.0.1.x 10.0.2.x 10.0.3.x i want 1 to communicate with 2 and 3 but 2 and 3 to not communicate back to 117:45
mrgoodcatoh17:48
mrgoodcatwe don't have anything that fancy17:48
mrgoodcati'm sure it's probably possible17:48
Havenstancehonestly if i could keep the subnets from communicating with each other that'd be fine too17:49
Havenstancebecause I only have one ip cam on that 2nd subnet which could be changed to the 1st without too much trouble17:49
Havenstancebrb net swap to make sure this is still working and I haven't b0rked something17:50
mrgoodcatHavenstance2: you can do that with internal network rules17:53
Havenstance2that's what im trying to figure out17:54
Havenstance2I think everything routes through the firewall and that's what's allowing it17:54
Havenstance2I don't mind having to change the IP cam17:54
Havenstance2but I'm going to have 3 subnets and one of the 3 is for public use17:54
Havenstance2I don't want them getting my samba shares17:55
=== Havenstance2 is now known as Havenstance
Havenstancewhich is configured within samba I know I can set ip rules there17:55
Havenstancebut I don't want that second subnet with someones public laptop accessing files that may or may not be shared from other PCs within the 1st subnet17:56
Havenstancesubnet 3 I don't much care about as its going to be largely unused its just there for expainsion's sake17:56
mrgoodcatHavenstance: iirc that would be in firwall rules -> packet fileter17:59
mrgoodcatfilter*17:59
Havenstanceyeah like I said I think i've got it now.18:00
Havenstanceonce I figured out what I was looking at18:00
HavenstanceI created 3 network objects spanning the 3 subnets exception the server18:00
mrgoodcatHavenstance: if you're brave, run sudo iptables -L when you're done setting up all your rules18:01
mrgoodcatzentyal sets up like a million rules18:01
mrgoodcatnot literally million but it's a lot18:01
HavenstanceIts not that I don't know in theory what im doing18:05
HavenstanceI just don't know how to do it in Linux :)18:05
HavenstanceI guess is the way to put it :)18:05
jcastrohttp://www.mlive.com/business/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2014/03/new_alcohol_delivery_service_d.html18:05
mrgoodcati just listed all the rules on our networking server18:05
jcastroYEAH!18:05
mrgoodcati was liek NOPE18:06
mrgoodcatclose bash prompt18:06
greg-gjcastro: hah18:06
Havenstancelol nice18:08
mrgoodcatit may as well have output chinese18:09
mrgoodcatcat /bin/random is more understandable18:09
HavenstanceWell I managed to get it working with OpenDNS18:16
HavenstanceSo I'm getting somewhere :)18:16
mrgoodcatgood for you18:16
jrwrenhaving fun at work today.  CREATE EXTENSION plpythonu;18:17
Havenstance:)18:20
HavenstanceI think this is easier then I'm making it out to be18:21
HavenstanceI created objects containing all 3 subnets in the network18:21
Havenstanceused ip span to span them all18:21
Havenstanceblocked all communication between ex traffic originating from sub2 bound for sub3 deny18:21
Havenstanceidk how its going to work but it makes sense in my head lol18:21
Havenstanceit works18:24
HavenstanceI'll be damned18:24
mrgoodcatBAM18:24
mrgoodcatzentyal is the shit man, what did i tell ya18:24
Havenstancesubnet 1 can ping 2 with no trouble18:24
Havenstancesubnet 2 can't even ping subnet 118:24
Havenstance:D18:24
Havenstancety man :)18:24
mrgoodcatnp18:25
mrgoodcatglad to be of service18:25
Havenstancein case you ever need to do the same18:25
Havenstancethe secret was in creating the network objects under Network > Objects18:25
Havenstanceadded one for all 3 subnets with the address range of each18:25
mrgoodcatyea we use network objects for subnetting18:25
Havenstancethen bound the rules that 2 couldn't talk to 3 or 1 and 3 couldn't talk to 1 or 2 but one could talk to everything with all services18:26
Havenstancejust like that about 10 clicks it works18:26
mrgoodcatjust never needed any rules specifically denying access in one direction and allowing in the other18:26
rick_h_jrwren: I used that at morpace to prove we could do cool python based funcs and avoid writing C-based ones that took down the whole mysql server18:30
rick_h_jrwren: I still failed to get postgres going :(18:30
jrwrenrick_h_: :(18:31
jrwrenrick_h_: we are postgresql only here.  no mysql :)18:31
greg-gmariadb!18:32
greg-g:P18:32
jrwrenits not the license why I dislike mysql so much. its the tech.18:34
greg-gbut new features!18:34
mrgoodcatwhat are the biggest differences you care about?18:34
jrwrenconstraints.18:35
jrwrendoes mysql even enforce foreign key constraints by default, eyt?18:36
jrwrenpostgis18:36
jrwrengin indexes18:36
jrwrenplpythonu18:36
jrwrenall things mysql cannot do AFAIK18:36
jrwrenrange types, array types18:36
jrwrenwhich means I can have array of ranges.18:36
jrwrenhstore18:36
jrwrenjson18:36
jrwrenagain, no mysql equivalents.18:36
jrwrenpostgresql is REALLY FREAKING GOOD18:37
brouschrick_h_: Ug, my brain is fried from these 6 gsoc submissions we got. I hope you don't explode18:41
Havenstancemrgoodcat, do you recall a packet capture in that zentyal interface?18:50
Havenstancefound one18:51
mrgoodcatlol18:52
Havenstancejust a matter of rearranging some google keywords :)18:52
mrgoodcatit has everything. you just have to find it18:52
mrgoodcatyou're taxing my memory man18:53
mrgoodcati haven't thought this much about our zentyal server since i set it up18:53
Havenstancethat's alright, I think I'm good now18:53
Havenstancebout 30 seconds from being ready to deploy18:53
Havenstanceobviously its not going in until monday though18:54
mrgoodcatnow what happens if the hdd fails?18:54
mrgoodcator the power as happened to me today18:54
mrgoodcatcheck out core -> system -> high availability18:55
mrgoodcatsaved my ass today18:55
cmaloneybrousch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwXKR9EWhXo18:57
cmaloneyI think this is right up your alley.18:58
brouschthanks18:58
Havenstancemrgoodcat, i have no high availability under system here19:18
mrgoodcathrm. what version of zentyal/19:19
Havenstance3.419:19
Havenstancecould it be im on the community edition?19:19
mrgoodcatno that's not the problem19:19
mrgoodcathttp://labs.zentyal.org/high-availability-in-zentyal/19:19
Havenstancei found it19:20
Havenstancehigh avilability module under components19:20
Havenstancewasn't installed19:20
mrgoodcatHavenstance: i have to get on my plane now but if you need help on monday let me know19:20
mrgoodcater tuesday19:20
mrgoodcati'll still be gone monday19:20
Havenstancealrighty man, I think I'll be okay now :)19:21
HavenstanceThank you for all your help this far though19:21
Havenstancemade this so much easier19:21
Havenstanceenjoy your trip19:21
mrgoodcatno problem19:21
mrgoodcati didn't really do anything anyways except suggest zentyal19:21
mrgoodcatpeace19:22
* mrgoodcat leaves19:22
Havenstanceim thinking about doing the same here real soon lol19:22
=== Havenstance is now known as Haven|Weekend

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