[00:26] <qengho> RAOF: Hi, we're trading email about touchpads and XI2 touch events.  IRC may be quicker.
[00:30] <RAOF> qengho: Sure.
[00:31] <qengho> RAOF: I really want your nick to be ROUS, every time I read it.
[00:31] <RAOF> qengho: If it makes you feel any better, it stands for Running Around On Fire.
[00:32]  * RAOF 's cooperteam.net domain name may suggest the origin of that for the owner of sufficiently exotic trivia :)
[00:32] <qengho> That does comfort me.
[00:40] <qengho> RAOF: I don't know the trivia, but sounds like some racing mishap.
[00:41] <RAOF> qengho: So the problem is indeed that synaptics isn't giving you two-finger touches, and is instead returning scroll events?
[00:41] <RAOF> ie: evdev worked?
[00:41] <qengho> RAOF: Right.
[00:42] <RAOF> So, this is where input becomes terrible.
[00:42] <qengho> I can paste the events it *does* show, if you'd like.
[00:42] <RAOF> For evdev, or synaptics (or, I guess, both :))
[00:42] <RAOF> Yeah, the events might be interesting.
[00:43] <qengho> Er, I don't know what "synaptics" means.
[00:43] <RAOF> Oh, the synaptics driver.
[00:44] <RAOF> ie: before you deleted the “load synaptics for touchpads” xorg configuration.
[00:46] <RAOF> But, in general - Peter Hutterer is the maintainer of synaptics, and would prefer very much to do gestures in-driver. Because you can't assume that clients will handle them, and sending both raw touches and synthesised scroll events becomes awkward.
[00:47] <RAOF> I'm not _entirely_ sure that we can't do that sensibly, though. I'd like to try anyway :)
[00:48] <qengho> RAOF: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7128187/     Unmodified xorg config, two-finger pinch.
[00:49] <qengho> I'll have to go away and fabricate the other one.
[00:49] <qengho> Modified to have no synaptics driver, I mean as other.
[00:49] <RAOF> Right.
[00:50] <qengho> Right, you need it? 
[00:50] <RAOF> I'd be interested to see it, but I could also get the same thing by charging some batteries, pairing my magic touchpad, and seeing whether it still panics my kernel.
[00:51] <RAOF> And in that log you're seeing all the events on valuators 2 and 3, which are v. scroll and h. scroll respectively.
[00:51] <qengho> Oh, I had that same problem, kernel panic.  Thinkpad?
[00:52] <RAOF> System76
[00:52] <RAOF> I think it's a bug in hid-magicmouse.
[00:52] <qengho> Huh. I'm on a Darter.
[00:52] <RAOF> Galago here.
[00:52] <qengho> ...now.
[00:53] <qengho> Back in 5min.
[00:57] <qengho> ROUS: Well.  Commenting everything out isn't right. Builtin trackpad doesn't do anything.
[01:03]  * qengho restarts X.
[01:09] <qengho> RAOF: I'm realizing I don't really know what you wish me to change.
[01:10] <RAOF> qengho: Oh. I wanted you to delete /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics.conf and restart X; that'll switch your touchpad to using evdev, which definitely won't eat events to synthesise other events.
[01:11] <qengho> RAOF: I didn't delete, but I added "#### " to the start of every line.  That made neither builtin nor APPL bluetooth pad work.
[01:11] <RAOF> Hm, that shouldn't happen.
[01:12] <qengho> RAOF, right now, I added a new section that tries to match the device and assign it Driver evdev before the first one assigns synaptics.  I don't think it's doing what I expected. Perhaps it's not matching.
[01:12] <RAOF> Yeah, you'd need to do the matching *after* the synaptics one.
[01:13] <RAOF> (/var/log/Xorg.0.log should show you which driver is getting loaded)
[01:13] <qengho> I did it there too. I'm thorough.
[01:14] <RAOF> I'm surprised that commenting out 50-synaptics.conf didn't work; evdev should still match in that case. Maybe could you throw me your Xorg.0.log at some point?
[01:16] <qengho> Comment all, get log?
[01:16] <RAOF> Yeah, thanks.
[01:17] <Sarvatt> you're going to need to force it to evdev for it to work, synaptics wont work unless its a non synaptics touchpad that works with it like a macbook one, seems like a lost cause
[01:21] <qengho> RAOF: log, conf lacks 50-synaptics.  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7128307/
[01:22] <RAOF> Sarvatt: I think synaptics doesn't report TouchBegin/.../TouchEnd for two-fingers, right?
[01:22] <qengho> At three, it magically wakes up and starts reporting. It decided it wasn't a scroll request.
[01:23] <RAOF> Right.
[01:25] <RAOF> My magic touchpad agrees.
[01:26] <RAOF> qengho: So, the answer is - ugliness.
[01:26] <RAOF> I think for the moment you get to assume that you won't get two-finger touch data on touchpads, and give up on getting pinch & such to work :(
[01:27] <qengho> Is the long answer, kill kill kill the old scroll hack and make every client xi2-aware?
[01:28] <RAOF> Well, and also the _new_ scroll hack.
[01:28] <qengho> Oh. I didn't know there was a new one.
[01:28] <RAOF> Yeah, rather than translating to buttons we translate to scroll axes - which is why you can get smooth scrolling support.
[01:30] <qengho> So. .....so! I kind of reckon that a UDS immediately after 14.04 is a perfect point to propose this.
[01:31] <RAOF> But this needs core input support - we can't send both synthesised scroll events and touch events, because clients won't be expecting it.
[01:31] <RAOF> Can I interest you in getting this to work on Mir instead? :)
[01:32] <RAOF> Hm. Maybe it wouldn't be _so_ terrible in X.
[01:33] <qengho> I don't know anything about mir. I'm some browser guy
[01:33] <RAOF> I think the answer is that it should actually just work in Mir - check out racarr's Chromium-on-Mir work.
[01:34] <qengho> I keep meaning to merge that and get it into upstream.
[01:35] <qengho> And, that's good news.
[01:39] <RAOF> I should _keep_ it working on Mir, too.
[01:39] <RAOF> :)
[01:40] <RAOF> Hey! It looks like magic trackpads no longer panic my kernel. Bitchn'!
[01:43] <qengho> I'm taking credit for that.
[01:45] <qengho> RAOF: Okay. So, 1a) give up on synaptics pinch. 1b) break the bad news to ara and manager-y people.  2) get mir patches into chromium, first local, then upstream. 3) something about future driver or clients or something that I don't understand and will leave to you.
[01:46] <qengho> RAOF: thanks for your time.
[01:51] <RAOF> qengho: No problem!
[01:51] <qengho> Summary in email to ara.
[01:52] <RAOF> Which I will be receiving shortly, I guess? :)
[01:52] <qengho> Now, I must go fall unconscious and hallucinate for 8 hours.
[01:52] <qengho> Strange we think that's normal.
[01:52] <qengho> Laters.
[01:53] <RAOF> Sleep well!
[03:32] <RAOF> Hey! Looks like Chrome managed to wedge i915 pretty good.
[08:43] <mlankhorst> RAOF: known bug i think