[00:30] <Unit193> Well I know, but I can't tell him now..
[00:46] <knome> Unit193, tell who?
[00:52] <Unit193> I had a ping.
[10:09] <dkessel> Good morning.
[10:11] <dkessel> Has anybody else gotten two battery indicators? I have the unity power indicator plus xfce4-power-manager. This did not happen on Friday...
[10:13] <brainwash> dkessel: hey, the power manager one should be hidden
[10:15] <brainwash> but I think that the updated xubuntu-default-settings package still needs to be uploaded
[10:15] <dkessel> brainwash: ok , that should change it?
[10:20] <brainwash> I hope so
[10:21] <dkessel> I'll keep an eye on it
[10:23] <brainwash> bluesabre0: why did you remove xubuntu-default-settings from the affects list? bug 1281323
[10:35] <brainwash> dkessel: you can check bug 1295864 for status updates
[10:36] <elfy> brainwash: appears that the odd deleting bug I had has gone
[10:38] <brainwash> elfy: mark it as incomplete and remove it from the -bugs blueprint?
[10:38] <elfy> not yet - it only appears to have gone :)
[10:39] <knome> anybody can come up with a reason why we need https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop
[10:39] <knome> it doesn't have bugs traker, support issues tracked, translations tracker, branches specified, it has no announcements, it specifies no exact license...
[10:39] <knome> it basically only points people to the home page, wiki, screenshots and the downloads page
[10:40] <elfy> ask cody somerville why he set it up?
[10:40] <brainwash> I like that page
[10:40] <elfy> certainly appears to be a nothingness
[10:41] <knome> it appears to be user-facing communication in a developer platform
[10:41] <knome> ...which can be good
[10:41] <knome> but not if it says the development focus is natty series
[10:41] <knome> brainwash, why do you specifically like that page?
[10:42] <brainwash> it's like a minimal version of the actual xubuntu homepage
[10:43] <knome> like, a very minimal
[10:43] <brainwash> with informative text and links
[10:43] <knome> it only has the description text that can be useful
[10:43] <knome> and the links
[10:43] <knome> the rest of the page is useless information
[10:43] <knome> which can most definitely confuse people
[10:44] <brainwash> other flavors don't have this page (-desktop)
[10:44] <knome> apparently it is the "upstream" project for xubuntu-meta and xubuntu-system-tools packages
[10:44] <knome> but that's not a useful thing
[10:45] <elfy> don't tell ali then - or there will be 500 u-gnome ones by the end of the day :p
[10:51] <brainwash> xubuntu-system-tools? o.o
[10:52] <knome_> 12:46  knome: yeah, i don't know
[10:52] <knome_> some ancient package from 2009 i guess
[10:53] <brainwash> so no one will miss that page
[10:53] <brainwash> if it is redundant
[10:53] <knome> if not else, i'm cleaning it up now
[10:54] <knome> "top contributors"
[10:54] <knome> ehh....
[10:54] <knome> who *is* jeb. e? :)
[10:54] <knome> or petar sredojevic?
[10:54] <knome> i know who gunnar is, but he's not involved with xubuntu
[10:59] <knome> mhm, xubuntu-meta is actually at lp:ubuntu/xubuntu-meta
[10:59] <knome> the page is a bit cleaner now
[11:00] <knome> will continue investigations later
[11:07] <bluesabre0> brainwash: poke
[11:07] <brainwash> bluesabre0: hey
[11:08] <bluesabre0> hey, I removed it from affecting xubuntu because we fixed it in xubuntu
[11:08] <bluesabre0> we removed light-locker from autostart by shipping an empty autostart entry on live
[11:09] <brainwash> why not leave it there and change the status to "fix released"?
[11:09] <brainwash> yes, the lubuntu guys need the exact same fix
[11:10] <knome> can agree marking as "fix released" would be better than marking unaffected ;)
[11:10] <bluesabre0> good question, I feel like I had a good reason back then :\
[11:12] <bluesabre0> maybe because the issue was with xubuntu-live-settings or something
[11:12] <knome> bluesabre0, retarget?
[11:12] <bluesabre0> yeah, I'll do so now
[11:12] <knome> Unit193, do we still try to get the translator attribution in for trusty, or should we postpone it for a point release?
[11:13] <knome> Unit193, looks like there are other things for that as well, so...
[11:13] <brainwash> bluesabre0: -default-settings builds -live-settings
[11:13]  * bluesabre0 doesn't like those packages
[11:14] <bluesabre0> xubuntu-meta -> xubuntu-default-settings -> xubuntu-live-settings
[11:15] <knome> :P
[11:15] <knome> guests coming any minute now, bbl
[11:16] <bluesabre0> there
[11:41] <brainwash> dkessel: I've checked again and the change already has landed in trusty, but it won't take effect if you have a custom power manager config file
[11:42] <dkessel> brainwash: oh OK that might have been the case.
[11:42] <brainwash> ~/.config/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-power-manager.xml
[11:42] <dkessel> bbl lunch...
[11:42] <brainwash> rename the config file and restart the session
[11:42] <brainwash> ok
[13:51] <dkessel> Yup, that worked
[13:53] <brainwash> dkessel: thanks for testing, sadly this little problem will affect users who upgrade from a previous release
[13:54] <brainwash> not all of them, but the ones who already have a user config file for the power-manager (which overrides the global config)
[14:00] <dkessel> brainwash: what was the general idea here? To replace xfce's power manager icon with the ubuntu default? Is there no way of globally disabling xfce's pm on upgrade? Or is it still required for something?
[14:02] <brainwash> dkessel: xfce4-power-manager is still running in the background, but we decided to use unity's indicator instead (which now also opens xfpm if running)
[14:04] <brainwash> and xfpm checks for a user config file first
[14:04] <brainwash> but we can only adjust the global config file
[14:04] <dkessel> Ah OK... So we only switched that part of the UI. Hm patch xfpm to not start the tray icon anymore if indicator-power is installed?
[14:05] <brainwash> adding some hack to xfpm could resolve this
[14:06] <brainwash> file a bug report and maybe we'll address this issue
[14:08] <brainwash> however, the problem is that hacks are usually not easily accepted
[14:09] <brainwash> and altering files in the user folder via the package install routine is a no-go too
[14:53] <pleia2> 95 xubuntu-devel moderator request(s) waiting
[14:53] <pleia2> gah
[14:53] <pleia2> usually there are like.. 2
[14:58] <elfy> ... 
[14:58] <elfy> I'll turn off thunderbird then :p
[14:59] <elfy> the fc list gets about 40 a week 
[15:30] <ochosi> hey everyone
[15:33] <brainwash> ochosi: hello
[15:34] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[15:45] <brainwash> elfy: any news regarding the ibus keyboard layout mess?
[15:46] <brainwash> telling people to simply delete ibus is a bad solution
[15:46] <elfy> only that it seems to be a regression 
[15:46] <brainwash> so there is hope for a fix :)
[15:46] <elfy> I know it is not a good solution - but then installing something that breaks this isn't good either :p
[15:46] <elfy> I hope so brainwash 
[15:49] <ochosi> yeah, i'm wondering whether we should consider dropping it form our seed...
[15:50] <elfy> ochosi: mmm - trouble is can we add it back when it's fixed? 
[15:50] <elfy> I don't know the answer to that
[15:50] <ochosi> i dunno whether it's really needed by default
[15:50] <brainwash> only problem is, many people rely on it
[15:50] <ochosi> i've personally never used this (this doesn't mean it's not needed, but that i don't know)
[15:51] <elfy> brainwash: then they'd want one that's not broken :)
[15:52] <brainwash> it's not broken if you configure it, or?
[15:52] <ochosi> has anyone gotten in touch with the ibus maintainers?
[15:52] <elfy> ochosi: I've not
[15:52] <elfy> brainwash: why should you have to configure it? 
[15:53] <elfy> in my opinion - I set up the system when I install with a suitable keyboard layout - I shouldn't have to do anymore than that
[15:53] <brainwash> I mean if you need to switch between different kb layouts, you could configure it, so that it works
[15:54] <ochosi> yeah, but there are alternatives to that
[15:54] <brainwash> so we should deactivate the autostart entry
[15:54] <ochosi> e.g. the xfce4-keyboard-plugin
[15:54] <brainwash> yes
[15:54] <ochosi> yeah, deactivating the autostart entry would be a workaround i could live with
[15:54] <ochosi> but in the long run it'd be nice to re-consider whether we really need it on a default install
[15:54] <brainwash> does the panel plugin allow switching via kb shortcut?
[15:55] <ochosi> or whether there are even better solutions for it
[15:55] <ochosi> yeah, i think you can set it up to do that
[15:55] <ochosi> to the worst you can bind an xfconf-query command ;)
[15:55] <ochosi> (also: is this a functionality you consider essential to layout-switching?)
[15:56] <brainwash> yes
[15:56] <brainwash> switching via kb shortcut is widely used
[15:56] <brainwash> when chatting for example
[15:57] <ochosi> what do you base that "widely used" on? :)
[15:57] <brainwash> just my observations
[15:57] <brainwash> asian people for example
[15:58] <brainwash> or russian ones
[15:58] <ochosi> could you point these folks to translating light-locker?
[15:58] <brainwash> :D
[15:59] <brainwash> light-locker needs translation?
[15:59] <ochosi> yup
[15:59] <ochosi> and chinese and russian are still not complete/up-to-date
[15:59] <brainwash> ah, the lock screen
[15:59] <brainwash> with the big lock icon
[15:59] <ochosi> nah, it's more than that
[15:59] <ochosi> commandline-options etc
[15:59] <ochosi> ~12strings
[16:00] <brainwash> we could use google translate
[16:01] <ochosi> no
[16:01] <ochosi> that just creates a mess
[16:02] <brainwash> sadly I don't know anyone I could ask
[16:03] <ochosi> so who are those misterious asians and russians you quoted earlier? :)
[16:04] <brainwash> gaming related, so they don't actually use ubuntu
[16:06] <brainwash> what about asking in the local ubuntu channels, like #ubuntu-ru ?
[16:06] <elfy> ochosi: I could live with us deactivating autostart for it
[17:47] <ochosi> micahg: reminder about the merge-requests
[17:57] <ochosi> knome: what do you thnk about disabling ibus autostart by default in 14.04? from what i can tell it seems to have a regression (changes kb-layout on login) that causes the bug elfy reported a longer while ago already
[17:57] <ochosi> i'm mostly asking cause this would most likely also go in x-d-s
[17:58] <ochosi> (i guess elfy can tell you more about it if necessary as i'm running out now)
[19:37] <starrats> hello folks I just sent in another bug report, didn't want too but this one warranted it.  Problems with start up cursor is still freezing at password window, it's been real good for me until gthe last two days and all of a sudden it is freezing again. the cursor.
[19:48] <brainwash> starrats: hey
[19:48] <brainwash> little 'lightdm' window?
[19:49] <brainwash> you mean the login box on the login screen, correct?
[19:50] <starrats> yes the logon /password window
[19:50] <starrats> not the little 'lightdm' window
[19:50] <starrats> sorry
[19:51] <brainwash> does the keyboard also stop responding?
[19:51] <starrats> yes
[19:51] <brainwash> can you switch to a virtual console (ctrl + alt + F1)?
[19:52] <starrats> I move my finger on the touchpad/mousepad and sometimes I have a 'free' cursor and sometimes nothing and no keys will operate to unfreeze the cursor
[19:52] <starrats> never tried that combo of keys
[19:53] <brainwash> you can switch back with ctrl + alt + F7
[19:53] <starrats> did not know that combo of keys
[19:54] <brainwash> it is a simple test to check, if the whole system is frozen
[19:54] <starrats> ah okay next time I'll try these two combo's
[19:56] <starrats> thanks brainwash
[19:56] <starrats> if the system is frozen?
[19:56] <starrats> hard crash/ turn off 
[19:56] <starrats> I mean hard shutdown
[19:59] <brainwash> starrats: try to reboot your system in a cleaner way, see http://fosswire.com/post/2007/09/fix-a-frozen-system-with-the-magic-sysrq-keys/
[20:06] <starrats> thank you brainwash, I know a hardshut down is not good.  i read and copied the info concerning alt + SYSRQ keys and then typing in REISUB, question does that have to be in caps?
[20:07] <starrats> the reason I ask is that the link you shared showed that 'word' in caps.
[20:08] <brainwash> no caps needed
[20:08] <starrats> ah okay cool
[20:09] <brainwash> you can also skip the first 3 letter, because they are ignored on ubuntu systems
[20:09] <brainwash> but that's not important
[20:09] <starrats> so just sub?
[20:09] <brainwash> nah, use reisub
[20:09] <starrats> ah okay
[20:10] <starrats> thank you again for all your help
[20:10] <brainwash> you're welcome
[20:11] <brainwash> one more thing, you should attach log files to your report
[20:11] <starrats> log files in the bug report?
[20:12] <brainwash> yes, for example /var/log/syslog and /var/log/Xorg.0.log + /var/log/Xorg.0.log.old
[20:12] <starrats> ah okay
[20:13] <brainwash> after your system has frozen again and you have performed a reboot
[20:14] <starrats> those didn't 'pop-up on term when I was finally able to type my password to get on I went to the term and typed in 'ubuntu'bug' and prceeded from there.
[20:14] <starrats> ah okay
[20:16] <starrats> though when i did type in 'ubuntu-bug in term I did get an output that startedcv with WARNING... 
[20:16] <brainwash> so your frozen system recovers without reboot?
[20:17] <starrats> no I do the hard shutdown and try to logon on again, that was 4 times today, I hate hard shutdowns
[20:17] <starrats> to reboot
[20:17] <brainwash> alright
[20:17] <starrats> the 4 times were back to back
[21:41] <olbi> hi guys, why daily iso doesnt have actually lang files from launchpad? and why translation from transifex isn't updated for Xfce? :/
[21:42] <olbi> I want to check and fix this but can't :/
[21:42] <knome> for which package specifically?
[21:42] <olbi> xubuntu installer slideshow
[21:43] <knome> that's pending a new release
[21:43] <knome> translations will land on the non-language-pack freeze day at latest
[21:43] <knome> for what comes to transifex... i doubt there are automatical imports
[21:45] <olbi> that isn't cause I do changes 7 days ago and it doesn't go to update files in 14.04, for example Thunar 1.6.3
[21:45] <knome> it is...
[21:46] <knome> translations made in launchpad or transifex do not magically get moved to the archive
[21:46] <knome> the bzr branches in launchpad are updated automatically, but packages aren't build from them automatically
[23:33] <ochosi> hm, we should still set some sane defaults for the X11 screensaver timeouts in xubuntu...
[23:33] <ochosi> (currently 10mins)
[23:34] <brainwash> 10mins is not sane?
[23:35] <ochosi> seems a bit short
[23:35] <ochosi> well otoh now that we have l-l-s by default it's easily configurable
[23:35] <brainwash> but it's the widely used default value
[23:35] <ochosi> so less of a headache
[23:35] <brainwash> exactly