[00:43] Got a question for anyone that is available. [00:43] !aks [00:43] "ask [00:43] meh [00:43] !ask [00:43] Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience [00:43] starrats: ^ [00:44] What is better to do the daily updates/ypgrades morning or night? I did them this morning like aLways but should I do them tonight? [00:44] I like to stay currnet. [00:45] current [00:45] I do the three upgrades or should back off and do the two? [00:45] three thing [00:46] update/upgrade/dist-upgrade [00:48] ochosi I was being polite, can you help me? [00:50] sure, but !patience [00:50] anyway, i don't think it makes any difference, just check for updates whenever you can/want [00:50] i don't think there's a specific deploy-time for the buildbots [00:51] ah okay and thank you [00:53] np [00:53] patience I do have but your 6 lines weren't patient ochosi [00:53] my six lines? [00:54] ok 4 lines and ubooto came on, sorry [00:54] ubottu came in [02:27] Just had apt crash after an update/reboot cycle, Bug #1296495 [02:27] Error: Launchpad bug 1296495 could not be found [02:28] Changed to public, Bug #1296495 [02:29] bug 1296495 [02:29] bug 1296495 in apt (Ubuntu) "apt-get crashed with SIGSEGV in pkgCache::DepIterator::IsSatisfied()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1296495 [03:22] can I ask where the default wallpapers are stored? [05:06] /usr/share/xfce4/backdrops/ [05:15] thankyou, I coldn't findit after I changed the wallpaper [05:39] can't see it in defects summary but when I try installing .deb files with Software Center I get "The installation or removal of a software package failed." === zequence_ is now known as zequence === soren_ is now known as soren [09:19] knome: I've been looking at the Settings Manager description bug, grabbed the relevant from http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/ , then found where the subtitle string is and changed it - do I just attach the edited xfce-settings-manager dialog.c file to the xfce bug? [09:20] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10765 [09:20] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10765 in Settings Manager "Setting manager description" [Normal,New] [09:24] elfy: not sure that this is really an improvement, "system settings" and "settings manager" just seem to be too similar to me [09:27] ochosi: it's the subtitle which is all wrong - it's currently Customise your desktop - which is not what the settings manager does [09:27] it has those things in it - but it also gets populated with tools like gparted [09:28] gparted doesn't customise your desktop - in fact you might use it to do something not at all related to the desktop :p [09:34] i know, but you can consider that a bug in gparted [09:35] not sure it should show up there, there were discussions about that [09:39] it's not a bug ingparted - it used to land in system menu - it's a bug in whatever was changed to make it land in settings manager then :) [09:39] whichever it is :) [09:41] disks goes there as well, and software updates and updater a whole bunch of things which aren't anything to do with customising a desktop [09:41] settings manager now appears to actually be a settings manager area - which is fine, but either the description is wrong or we should stop dropping everything into it imo [09:42] gparted's desktop file decides about that [09:43] and i guess it depends on what you see as "desktop" [09:43] well I don't see installing gparted to work with usb's desktop related at all :) [09:44] anyway - bbl - panicking about a job interview for an hour now [09:44] heh, ok, good luck with the interview! [09:44] ta [11:10] knome: you around? [11:15] knome: downloaded today's po_xubuntu_ubiquity-slideshow-xubuntu-pt.po and it's still not showing ochosi's text to the "Make the desktop your own" slide. It's just still showing the word "Stuff" as we had before ochosi made the text [11:22] slickymasterWork, hum [11:23] and a good morning knome :) [11:24] downloaded from launchpad? [11:24] * starrats is waiting for brainwash to arrive [11:24] knome: not sure if it relates but even though your https://code.launchpad.net/~knome/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/uife-bug-1294619/+merge/211707 has been merged it's still under 'Pending' status [11:24] yes knome, downloaded a while ago from LP [11:25] slickymasterWork, we still need an upload [11:25] slickymasterWork, that's the reason [11:25] slickymasterWork, if you want to prepare the translation, you can update the .po file against the .pot [11:26] (from the branch) [11:26] knome, so it's just a matter of someone poking Ubiquity Slideshow to get on with it [11:26] yes, stgraber has promised to do an upload [11:26] I've the translation all done [11:27] to update the .po file against the .pot I'll have to make a MP, right [11:27] ? [11:27] or can I just upload it via LP? [11:28] you should upload it via LP, but i don't know how it goes if you upload it before the pot file is uploaded [11:28] hmm, so it's still better to hang on a few more days [11:29] yes [11:29] until we have the new upload [11:29] i hope we get it today [11:29] okie dokie [11:29] because that would also mean we'd get it in for beta2 [11:29] thanks for the heads up ;) [11:29] won't get the *translations* to beta2 though... [11:29] but for final, sure [11:29] that's what's important anyway [11:29] https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu [11:29] scroll down [11:30] left bottom part [11:30] once the trusty package says version 80, we're good to go [11:32] good to know that [11:33] may I ask what version is trusty at now? [11:34] starrats, what about looking at the link just posted? :) [11:37] okay knome saw where you folks are at the moment [11:38] mhm [11:38] morning knome [11:38] hey elfy [11:38] will version 80 be the final package for the release next month or will there be more work? [11:39] we will need a new upload for the translations when that freeze lands, so at least 81 [11:39] but the version number itself doesn't matter [11:39] just that we need two more uploads [11:41] ah okay [13:02] brainwash: can you reproduce the "greeter doesnt exit cleanly" bug? [13:02] ochosi: no [13:02] hmkay [13:03] hi brainwash [13:03] hey elfy [13:42] brainwash: btw, i was only able to confirm this bug after my laptop crashed on suspending: https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605 [13:42] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,Reopened] [13:42] now i get it consistently, before i didn't at lal [13:42] all [13:43] so i'm starting to wonder whether it's solely xfdesktop's fault [14:25] ochosi: it's a race condition, my session start is rather slow on a fresh boot -> theme glitch, after a quick relog -> no glitch [15:14] ochosi: we could revert the "faulty" commit [16:07] * starrats is waiting for brainwash to arriveand finally [16:28] slickymasterWork, ubiquity stuff should be in order now [16:28] ok, thanks knome [16:29] yeaps knome, Version 80 uploaded 1 hour ago [16:42] knome: the problem subsists in the file :P [16:43] in Version 80 file, that is [16:44] ? [16:48] hmm, right, i see [16:48] weird... [16:48] what the... [16:52] damn connection [16:52] yeah, i see the issue. [16:52] that's weird. [16:53] because both me and stgraber updated the templates [16:53] it's as if your MP didn't get uploaded [16:54] well it did, i merged it.. [16:54] but oh well [16:54] i will have to look at it [16:54] >__< [16:54] I'll keep waiting for good news ;) [17:07] brainwash did yo get my private message? [17:09] bbl [17:46] brainwash did not want to send a ubuntu-bug report but the same tings have happened to me today as yesterday. Those things you gave me did nothing at all. I'm baffled why i was having so much luck on getting thru start-up that the last two have just been anirritation to me. [18:16] starrats: please add all information to your bug report [18:17] havent'filed it yet brainwash [18:18] if you want me to file, it will be like the other one, ther was nothing from the term, this is way prior to term [18:18] it seems to be a general hardware and/or driver issue [18:19] then should file this new report [18:22] I suggest that you try asking in #ubuntu+1, maybe someone there could help you with debugging the bug/crash [18:22] ah ok will do [18:55] Anyone who'se not given me a motu testimonial, you have 5 minutes, and it's fairly important you do [19:08] Noskcaj: might have been better to tell people earlier [19:08] elfy, I woke up 5 minutes ago [19:08] And i did [19:08] I meant like yesterday - though if you did you can't do more than that :) [19:09] good luck anyway :) [19:10] ty [19:10] * elfy did do one for what it's worth a while back [19:34] Noskcaj: at a guess I would suggest what you've been doing package wise and what you've done to deal with their previous comments [19:54] ochosi, knome: -default-settings uplaoded [19:57] * elfy saw thanks micahg-work :) [20:32] woohoo, default settings update in release pocket [20:32] cool [20:41] So i know can upload catfish, gthumb, parole, and mugshot [20:42] not yet [20:42] vote needs to be finished by email [20:44] s/know can/should be able to [20:46] those folks over in #ubuntu+1 were as helpful as an umbrella with holes in a down pour, lol [20:46] starrats: nature of IRC - if the people who can help aren't there then it get's lost [20:47] you just have to try again ... and again sometimes :) [20:47] ah ok [20:50] and sometimes you get idiots [20:55] I got some idiot over there and told me to use gentoo instead od a pre-release [20:55] I know I'm in the channel [20:56] ah okay [20:56] micahg-work: thanks! [20:57] congrats Noskcaj [20:58] ochosi, sorry that took so long, but it's in [20:58] yea - sorry Noskcaj - congrats [20:59] micahg-work: well the most important thing is that it's in ;) [20:59] thanks, although i feel letdown for only getting that [20:59] micahg-work: and anyway, might not have been the last update/upload for this cycle [20:59] that's fine [20:59] Noskcaj: why's that? i think it's actually pretty good, these are core apps for xubuntu [20:59] Noskcaj: you can do more than I can :) [20:59] we can do more post beta 2 (for a week or so) [21:00] micahg-work: did you have any thoughts about this ibus/keyboard issue at all? [21:00] ochosi, yeah, but i didn't even get PPU for all of my packages from debian, let alone all of xubuntu or all of universe [21:00] Noskcaj: also, that motivates me to fix bugs in parole cause i know it'll get uploaded [21:00] :) [21:01] and there are actually a few outstanding ones... [21:01] micahg-work: yeah, what elfy mentions is actually one more thing we might have to do in default-settings too (disable ibus startup by default) [21:01] i presume you guys have talked about this already? [21:01] elfy, I found a commit I thought might have been responsible, knome was doing some tests [21:02] oh d'oh - sorry - yea I saw that on thursday ... [21:02] Noskcaj: gz [21:02] i'm wondering though whether we really want ibus in the tray by default [21:02] ochosi: it did take up a chunk of the last meeting - I just forgot ... [21:03] that was never the case in any previous release [21:03] ochosi: yea +1 to that [21:03] so personally i'd go for disabling at least the trayicon, even if ibus gets fixed [21:03] ochosi, I don't like the idea of disabling ibus by default, how does that affect xubuntu in other languages [21:03] how does one even disable the ibus autostart? [21:04] also, maybe there's someone who can help us with this that's more familiar with this [21:04] from what i gather, ibus is needed when you have >1 input language/keyboard-layout [21:04] so it doesnt affect xubuntu on other languages per se [21:06] but i'm +1 on getting folks in that know more about this [21:06] btw, ubuntu doesnt use ibus anymore [21:06] they switched to indicator-keyboard [21:06] (which we could still do) [21:06] micahg-work: also - we never had it in the panel previously, so why would it be an issue for anyone that it wasn't previously [21:06] at the moment it IS an issue when keyboard layout is fubar once you've logged in [21:07] * elfy just looks at this logically rather than from a packaging pov [21:07] yup, i also agree with that logic [21:07] maybe it was there, but the tray icon was hidden [21:07] that's not impossible [21:07] brainwash: maybe so - but unhiding it has caused an issue :) [21:08] elfy, right, I just know it was seeded before, not sure how it was working in previous ISOs [21:08] micahg-work: i think part of the problem might be that unity doesnt use it anymore, i.e. less maintenance/care about the package... [21:08] ibus isn't even working for my main user account, it shows 1x de and 4x en_US [21:09] one could ask around on #ubuntu-devel tomorrow about how it worked in unity and how indicator-keyboard works now [21:10] I'd ask but would get lost in the explanations probably lol [21:12] ochosi, that could be [21:13] micahg-work: if you want i can ask, but the outcome might be that we might want to do s/ibus/indicator-keyboard/ [21:13] micahg-work: and i don't wanna be the one who is stuck with that change and then there's no uploader... (i guess you see where i'm going with this ;)) [21:14] ibus is still present on the daily ubuntu iso [21:16] ochosi: guy on the forum has added logs to the greeter bug he says [21:18] ochosi, if that's what we need to do, let's decide, it's getting late to make major changes, but I don' [21:18] t want to be supporting a broken package for 3 years [21:19] ibus is seeded across the board as well [21:20] micahg-work, testing didn't really turn up as well as it could have, downgrading didn't work as expected so couldn't really do much more than confirm the bug... [21:21] micahg-work: ok, i'll ask seb128 about it tomorrow, i think he'll know (and if not, he can at least point me somewhere) [21:22] we should put a cap on how long we try and sort this I guess - ie not too long [21:22] said the man ulikely to be able to help sort it ... [21:22] +1 [21:22] i also want to know why unity doesnt use it anymore [21:22] seeding it is one thing, activating it by default is another [21:22] it's still seeded on the Ubuntu ISO [21:23] we can also seed it but don't let it autostart [21:23] is that what they do? [21:23] micahg-work: when I was looking at this it affected us, studio obviously and lubuntu [21:23] http://paste.ubuntu.com/7148322/ [21:24] I didn;t check all of those other ones [21:24] micahg-work: well they certainly don't use the ibus trayicon anymore because i fixed a bug for them in their icon-theme today and they wanted to drop the icon for ibus(!) [21:25] (i actually saved them from doing so) [21:25] i don't mind about not autostarting ibus. [21:25] to be exact, i don't mind about not seeding it [21:25] however, it would need to be evaluated if there are some downsides to either [21:25] agreed [21:25] I suppose what we want - is to be back where we were before it landed in the panle [21:25] and for that, we ideally ask "someone who knows" :) [21:25] surely? [21:25] well, everyone else is using it, so unless there's a major reason not to, I'd not like to be different in this case [21:26] ochosi: maybe they just integrated ibus into indicator-keyboard [21:26] as it's in main, we're not directly on the hook for its maintenance either [21:27] micahg-work, agreed. [21:27] micahg-work, you happen to know any reason why we should keep https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-desktop/ ? [21:28] well, I think it was used before to track tasks related to the project per Ubuntu release [21:29] I think we're using blueprints for that now [21:29] the last release that it had was natty [21:29] i went and cleaned those up the other day [21:29] i think that page is just confusing for a user if they happen to land on it [21:30] and if it has no technical or social meaning for the developers either, we should remove it [21:32] micahg-work: so how soon do we need to actually make a decision on ibus by? [21:33] definitely before apr 10, the sooner the better [21:33] ochosi, micahg-work: can you elaborate [21:34] what's left to do in https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-features ? [21:34] or is the last thing left to do to mark the rest DONE ? [21:34] micahg-work: so assuming we have weekly meetings - by next weeks? 3rd? [21:34] elfy, that sounds fair [21:35] "just dropping it from the seed/autorun" is pretty simple [21:35] knome: what should i elaborate? [21:35] ochosi, see the next comment [21:35] I have no idea about the gtk2 indicators, I'd have to look [21:36] in that case, ochosi, can you elaborate on *that* with micah :) [21:36] as you probably understand, i'd like to get all of that blueprint done ASAP [21:36] knome: ok - I've made a note to make sure to add it agenda if it's not decided by then [21:36] elfy, ok, thanks [21:36] micahg-work: we have to make sure that they get removed for upgraders [21:36] micahg-work: otherwise the gtk3 indicators don't work [21:37] because they conflict [21:37] really? [21:37] (at least they did before upstart) [21:37] elfy, i've added that to the team calendar [21:37] ok - even better [21:38] ochosi, ok, can you file add notes about what specifically conflicts somewhere and make sure I'm subscribed (was thinking a bug against xubuntu-meta) [21:38] maybe just the whiteboard would be enough [21:39] micahg-work: ok, however you prefer. i mostly noted it on the whiteboard in the first place in order not to forget it [21:39] and that was weeks ago [21:39] ochosi: I have them all installed (gtk2 and gtk3) [21:40] brainwash: that must be the upstart transition then, it really didn't work before [21:40] gtk2 due to ubuntu-studio I think [21:40] micahg-work: in that ^ case, we can also skip it [21:40] ok [21:40] let me know [21:40] and xscreensaver conflicting with light-locker is also not a problem anymore [21:40] because light-locker comes first in xflock [21:41] nice [21:41] (although it sucks a bit to have all those useless things installed, but hey...) [21:41] mmh [21:41] yeah, those shouldn't conflict [21:41] (the price for LTS->LTS upgrading) [21:41] it would be nice if xflock can be taught with a setting which to use [21:41] what about the double power indicator problem (upgraders)? [21:42] micahg-work: yeah, xflock could really use an improvement (many patches in bugzilla), somehow nobody wants to touch it... [21:42] maybe for .1 [21:42] brainwash: not sure what to do about that [21:42] ochosi, describe it to micah who might [21:43] ochosi: a faq entry to explain it? [21:43] (be sure) [21:43] brainwash: we can't mess with user's config, and we can't conditionally *not* install indicator-power [21:43] knome: ^ [21:43] FAQ item seems the last effort [21:43] yeah, we can do that [21:43] hmm, [21:43] it's also not a given problem [21:43] aren't there some packages which as if you want to keep the current config or replace it with the newest? [21:44] what's causing the old indicator [21:44] errr.ico [21:44] icon [21:44] micahg-work: trayicon from xfce4-powermanager [21:44] i disabled it in xubuntu-default-settings to resolve that for new installs [21:44] but we cant do much about existing configs [21:44] the new indicator uses the power-manager? [21:44] yes [21:44] i patched it [21:44] \o/ [21:44] the "new indicator" is indicator-power [21:45] so we don't (have to) maintain it [21:45] we can just use it like indicator-sound [21:45] I supposed we still want users to have a trayicon for xfce4-powermanager even if they don't have indicator-power [21:49] brainwash, was bug 1271871 fixed by you or jackson? [21:49] bug 1271871 in xfdesktop "Desktop background solid color set to #7F0000 after restart despite being set to something else prior to restart" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271871 [21:49] brainwash, same for bug 1284923 [21:49] bug 1284923 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop settings dialog opens in own window" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284923 [21:50] it was fixed by the upstream people [21:50] aha [21:50] and jackson did the packaging work? [21:50] I guess so [21:50] ta. [21:51] micahg-work: why wouldn't they have indicator-power? [21:51] he just did not add the bug reports numbers to the changelog [21:51] brainwash, ok, thanks [21:51] if someone chooses to remove it [21:52] micahg-work: the problem is, that some upgraders might see both icons after upgrading to 14.04 [21:52] studio and mythbuntu don't have indicator-power [21:52] brainwash, right, one of the options is to remove the trayicon, but I don't see it as viable [21:53] we hide the power-manager via global config file provided by xubuntu-default-settings [21:53] micahg-work: yeah, it's still there, it's just hidden (the trayicon) [21:55] slickymaster, the .pot file seems to be okay... [21:56] slickymaster, i wonder if the launchpad automatic translation stuff will notice that change at some point [21:56] slickymaster, for the .po files, i guess you just need to update the catalog manually [21:56] slickymaster, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubiquity-slideshow/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/html/view/head:/po/xubuntu/slideshow-xubuntu.pot [22:00] there should be a script to do that I would think [22:01] yeah, i'm not worrying about it since everything looks okay in the branch [22:01] slickymaster has just been asking about it and why old stuff appear [22:01] and sure, would be nice to get that stuff updated to be able to run the call for translators [22:36] arrr, and there i just missed elfy... [22:38] :) [22:40] anyway, commented on another t-bug that should be wontfix imo [22:40] #? [22:40] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1271883 [22:40] Launchpad bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed] [22:40] commented upstream though [22:40] as that's where it's really tracked [22:43] ochosi: 100 is max for workspaces [22:43] yeah, but that's still a lot [22:44] doesn't really change my point [22:44] but what is the drawback of enabling it? [22:44] i explained that in my comment [22:44] potentially lots of cpu usage, what's the benefit of enabling it? [22:45] try it [22:45] worked flawless for me [22:45] what's the benefit of enabling it? [22:46] a happy elfy [22:46] HUHU [22:46] sorry, uppercase wasn't intended [22:47] it works, so I've attached the diff [22:47] and upstream won't answer anytime soon [22:47] probably not [22:47] but gtkspinbuttons are editable by default [22:48] so this was a conscious decision [22:48] I know, it has been like this for years [22:48] so it's not a regression or so [22:48] that's not a reason for changing anything though [22:49] if i could assign any (non-existing) bug importance field for that bug, it would be... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo [22:49] no, but it works if editable [22:50] probably not always. anyway, i'm tired of arguing about that dialog's spinbutton. i added my argument and upstream most likely won't change this [22:50] or if they do, they hopefully have a good reason to do so [22:50] why didn't you just ignore the report? :) [22:51] (with that i mean, a better reason than just "make elfy happy" – no offense, elfy) [22:51] it's part of xubuntu-t-bugs [22:51] i went through that list right now [22:51] it shouldn't be [22:51] yup, i wholeheartedly agree [22:51] all this minor stuff should be removed [22:51] it's not even a bug [22:51] i'll set it to wishlist if i can and remove it from the bp [22:52] or bug 1271861 [22:52] bug 1271861 in thunar (Ubuntu) ""Open with 'default app'" in right click context menu with wrong icon" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1271861 [22:52] easy fixable, but meh [22:52] what is right and what is wrong [22:53] yup [22:53] knome: mind to set this to wishlist? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfwm4/+bug/1271883 [22:53] Launchpad bug 1271883 in xfwm4 (Ubuntu) "Workspace Settings number keys do not work" [Medium,Confirmed] [22:54] ochosi: new comment https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10605 [22:54] bugzilla.xfce.org bug 10605 in General "Desktop icons/labels are not properly themed after login" [Normal,Reopened] [22:55] yup, i saw, have you tried it? [22:55] once [22:55] no change [22:56] my session start is damn slow [22:56] the first on after boot [22:56] one [22:57] slow session start -> race condition [22:59] i'm seeing it after i had a bug with suspend [22:59] so apport comes up at session start and that is seemingly enough [22:59] apport pops up every time? [23:00]