[00:06] why? [00:17] And, indicator-sound pulls in a nasty "dep" now. :/ [00:18] Unit193: which one? [00:18] knome, because the xubuntu MSRq is a very common support question. [00:19] the channel shouldn't be full of factoid triggering though [00:19] i haven't seen it asked that often really... [00:20] ochosi: unity-greeter-session-broadcast -> url-dispatcher-tools -> url-dispatcher -> click (the stack.) [00:20] "1gb" is three letters, "!requirements" is 13, even "!sysreq" is 7 [00:20] Unit193: meh, that's annoying, can you file a bugreport about it? i can talk to larsu tomorrow [00:22] Unit193: ideally just ping me with the bug-link and i'll bring it up, gotta go to bed now [00:22] night! [00:23] nighty [00:31] ochosi: I didn't even have to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bug/1297034 [00:31] Launchpad bug 1297034 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Do I really need 17 click or phone related packages on a Desktop install?" [Undecided,New] [00:31] Hahaha! Unity user too! [00:39] knome: "Update Wikipedia with up-to-date information" -> you are referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Xubuntu_14.04_LTS and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Applications only, right? [00:40] and probably same changes in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xubuntu#Goals ought to be done [00:41] mirroring the new recommended system resources -specs [02:11] micahg: if you happen to be around, we've got the ack to upload light-locker-1.4.0 [02:11] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker/+bug/1296456 [02:11] Launchpad bug 1296456 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "[FFe] Upgrade to light-locker 1.4.0" [High,Triaged] [02:12] I will follow that with a light-locker-settings release tomorrow (will need another sets of approvals) [02:48] Can someone with triage rights have a look at all the thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_free1() bugs? [02:51] bluesabre0: why not land them together? [02:51] micahg, working on the release now [03:33] knome, micahg, ochosi, lderan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-locker-settings/+bug/1297058 [03:33] Launchpad bug 1297058 in light-locker-settings (Ubuntu) "[FFe] [UIFe] Please update light-locker-settings to 1.2.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] [03:34] bluesabre0: make sure you get lubuntu sign-off as well since it's seeded by them [03:34] ok, will do, micahg [03:34] #join #lubuntu-devel [03:34] woops [03:35] do they have a dev channel now? [03:38] nope [03:38] :) [03:39] sent a ping out at #lubuntu [03:40] heading to bed now, let me know if you need me to change/update anything [03:44] i can confirm the wallpaper switching bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfdesktop4/+bug/1295614 [03:44] Launchpad bug 1295614 in xfdesktop "xfdesktop leaking memory on wallpaper change (ubuntu 14.04 with xfce)" [Medium,Confirmed] [04:01] bluesabre0: gilir isn't on IRC right now, and doesn't generally idle. [04:03] Unit193: do you have a suggestion, or should I subscribe him to that bug? [04:16] Sub+mail? [05:53] ali1234, You were looking at thunar crashes weren't you? [05:54] Because there's around 10 different "thunar crashed with SIGSEGV in g_slice_free1()" bugs, all set to private. all are from since the 13.10 release [07:20] ochosi: it'd take more than some random guy on a random channel in freenode randomly agreeing with a bug I reported to make me happy :) [07:24] pleia2 knome - can someone socialise the final beta test call please [07:25] tia [09:32] knome: I started draft for final beta release notes [09:34] !team [09:34] bluesabre, elfy, GridCube, jjfrv8, knome, lderan, micahg, mr_pouit, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, skellat, slickymaster, Unit193 [09:35] I would appreciate as many of you as possible to test the Final Beta before it's too late - thanks :) [09:57] first new bug for beta ... bug 1297170 [09:57] bug 1297170 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Live Session starts with XFCE wallpaper" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1297170 [10:03] thats an improvement [10:03] we had the debian wp for a bit [10:03] I'll test the beta tonight [10:04] cheers [10:04] still get Debian swirl under the try and install buttons too [10:05] bluesabre0: this new one is the desktop wallpaper once it boots the livesession [10:05] ah, gotcha [10:13] and once installed - same wallpaper [10:13] lovely! [10:14] ochosi... didn't you commit a fix for the wallpaper? [10:48] hi brainwash [10:51] hey elfy [10:51] hey brainwash [10:51] saw your wallpaper report [10:51] hello slickymasterWork [10:52] so we are ready for the final beta... and the xubuntu wallpaper is not being displayed (xfce one instead) [10:52] :) [10:55] yep [10:55] brainwash: atm we get both wallpaper bugs - debian at the Try/Install stage - then XFCE on live session and after install [10:55] and the ibus one ... ;) [10:56] the user will be confused [10:56] I also got this today - couldn't be bothered to file a new one - cub says he's going to do that [10:56] bug 1201762 [10:56] bug 1201762 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Install from live session: Failed detection of keyboard layout" [Undecided,Expired] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1201762 [10:56] which could well be tied up with the other issue I guess [10:57] possibly [11:00] ok so that's seriously bizarre [11:01] install - get xfce wallpaper - install to test resize - get xubuntu wallpaper [11:01] elfy: want to mark bug 1294209 as incomplete? we got basically not information other than the desktop did freeze at some point [11:01] bug 1294209 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Deleting files from desktop freezes machine for short period" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1294209 [11:01] maybe due to the user configuration, hardware setup, driver malfunction [11:02] I just commented [11:02] brainwash: if it is something like that then I'd wonder why I don't see the same behaviour elsewhere [11:02] ok, so it's the same user account? [11:02] yep [11:03] can you test with a different user please [11:03] anyway - bbl [11:03] bye [11:03] not today I can't - I am smack bang in the middle of testing beta's [11:04] oh - forget the bizarre behaviour now the desktop is up it is XFCE - but I did see xubuntu before desktop loads [11:14] bluesabre0: no, haven't looked at the wallpaper bug at all. waiting for knome to finish the wallpaper... [11:15] Unit193: hey, did you eventually report a bug about indicator-sound's changed depends? [11:27] knome, micahg: (1) ubuntu uses/installs ibus by default [11:27] knome, micahg: (2) they use indicator-keyboard, which relies on unity-settings-daemon to apply all settings (i.e. we can't/don't want to use that) [11:29] knome, micahg: (3) i think we should a) debug that problem better and get to the bottom of it and b) hide the trayicon by default, as that was also the case previously and it's only needed for ppl with >1 kb-layout/input-lang (and they have to set those up via ibus-prefs, where they can activate the trayicon if they want) [11:30] elfy: would you be available (or: when?) for helping with (3) a) ? ^ [11:34] ochosi: will hiding the trayicon solve the problem? the daemon is still running in the background [11:43] brainwash: no, that's why it's only b) [11:43] at least i presume it won't solve the problem, but then again, how would i know, i've never experienced the bug [11:44] ochosi: when? [11:44] elfy: whenever we're both available i guess [11:45] will be a bit later on - painting and testing atm [11:45] sounds good [11:45] just ping me, i *should* be available for some debugging [11:46] or can you already judge about when that'd be? [11:48] well I was hoping to get away with 2 coats ... but it's not looking good lol [11:48] ochosi: are you about this evening ? [11:48] hm, evenings are a mixed bag [11:48] can't really say [11:49] ok - well I'm holiday all week so ... [11:58] ochosi: simply create a new user and select en_GB on the login screen [11:58] log in and see what the try icon says [11:59] what happens for you when you do that? [12:00] the tray icon lists en_US [12:00] oh **** [12:00] desktop icon are not sized properly [12:01] config window says 48px, but it only changes to a bigger size after adjusting the icon size manually [12:02] so it's ~32px on a fresh login [12:02] + new account [12:02] but the greeter doesn't mess with ibus or the kb-layout at all, it only sets the locale [12:03] so if you don't set en_GB as keyboard layout during installation time, how should it be shown by ibus? [12:04] what about new user accounts? [12:04] those will use the system settings by default i guess [12:04] we don't have a special dialogue where you're asked about keyboard-layout after you selected it in ubiquity [12:05] brainwash: delete from desktop works ok for a new user [12:05] elfy: thanks for testing [12:06] ochosi: so switching the language to en_GB does not alter the kb layout to en_GB, or ibus is simply not able to map it this way [12:07] brainwash: that's only the language in the greeter, as i said. that has no effect on the kb-layout [12:08] yes, that's what I said [12:08] there's even a patch for adding a greeter-native kb-layout-switcher, but we simply haven't had the time to review/include that [12:08] yup, that's it [12:08] so i'm wondering whether this is not a misunderstanding maybe instead of a bug [12:08] at least i don't know how to reproduce it here now [12:09] and my connection is too bad to dl an iso-file [12:09] maybe [12:09] which is why i wanted someone to test this from the start [12:09] so we need to know what happens if ibus is not present and new user account is created [12:09] a misunderstanding? [12:12] brainwash: I can test that [12:13] brainwash: well we'd want to test again starting from the installer [12:14] elfy: yeah, in the sense that you could have forgotten to define the kb-layout to en_GB in the installer and hence the default en_US is used by ibus [12:14] and since the greeter's language menu could be mistaken for a kb-layout-switcher, you thought you could change it there [12:15] ochosi: not the case - I tried more than once, and in lubuntu and studio and ubuntu and kubuntu and 5 beta tests today [12:15] ok [12:15] just wanting to make sure [12:15] you set keyboard during install and it ignores it :) [12:15] yep - that's ok [12:15] well i dunno, i set it to DE and that works fine [12:15] and I've had numerous people with UK keyboards all confirm it :) [12:16] en_AU too, or? [12:16] basically all the variants I think [12:17] brainwash: nope - just UK [12:17] that's weird [12:17] ok [12:19] you can add UK to ibus and that works - or purge ibus and that works - but the issue is that we didn't get this when ibus wasn't in the panel [12:20] and you shouldn't have to do either of those things [12:20] bbl [12:20] elfy: so when you disable the trayicon and restart your session that works? [12:29] ochosi: bug 1272057 [12:29] bug 1272057 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop icon size is not explicitly defined" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272057 [12:32] icons should be now 48px, but they are smaller when you create a new account [12:32] could be related to the recent style change problem [12:38] ochosi: checking [12:43] ochosi: so - setting ibus to not show in panel then logout/in makes no difference [13:16] elfy: yeah, thought so. [13:18] elfy: what does localectl say about your Layout? [13:38] hey elfy [13:38] ochosi, [13:38] comments: http://xubuntu.org/about/ [13:40] knome: sounds good to me! [13:41] sounds? [13:41] and me [13:41] do you use text-to-speech? [13:41] you too?! [13:41] sounds like the allman brothers atm [13:41] ok, i'll mark the work item for that "DONE", we can improve later [13:41] knome: wait [13:42] it's DONE, but feel free to comment :P [13:42] ochosi: I'll do that as soon as this one has installed [13:42] comments are \o/ [13:42] heh [13:42] looking at sentences and spelling now ... [13:42] sure [13:42] i'll release the edit lock [13:42] so if you feel like it, just go and fix [13:42] oh d'oh - can do it myself lol [13:43] yep [13:44] The community infrastructure and communication should be made as good as possible to enable [13:45] not sure what to do with that sentence though ... [13:45] I added a 'be' is all :) [13:45] hehe [13:45] well could be just "should be as good ..." [13:46] mmm - it's the as possible as well [13:46] how about "The community infrastructure and communication should be robust enough to enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues. [13:47] knome: ^^ [13:48] yeah worksforme [13:49] all done then :) [13:50] * elfy likes recommended system resources by the way [13:51] goodie [13:53] ochosi: nothing unexpected in locaectl http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7151268/ [13:54] ochosi: your plan sounds fine [13:54] hey micahg [13:55] hi knome [13:55] what's up? [13:55] also, nice to see you around more [13:56] slickymasterWork, ubiquity slideshow translation issues resolved [13:59] * elfy is not doing anymore tests today [13:59] yeah, fair ; [13:59] ;) [13:59] * knome is translating the slideshow [13:59] I purged vbox as well :p [13:59] haha [13:59] not doing any tomorrow either :D [14:00] good old Mr Elkins has weighed in on testing :) [14:00] what do you mean "irrelevant issues"? [14:05] elfy: when going to the ibus preferences (in the settings manager) in the advanced tab, is "use system keyboard layout" ticked [14:06] elfy: or is "customize active input methods" ticked in the "input method" tab? or both? [14:06] i'm wondering whether we just need different default settings for ibus, e.g. use the system layout by default [14:07] would be nice if you could check what combination of settings resolves the issue for you [14:08] ali1234, like fighting with skype that doesn't work... [14:09] ali1234, or not having a bug tracker... [14:09] ali1234, or not having the tools to track blueprints... [14:09] skype works fine here [14:09] ali1234, or not having the communication medias... [14:09] but i see what you mean [14:09] yep [14:09] it's more behind-the-curtains [14:10] yeah that's not clear from the page. "making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues." sounds like you want to top-down dictate which bugs *in xubuntu* we fix and which ones we ignore [14:10] i know that's not true, but that's how it reads [14:10] it is... look at the context [14:10] not really [14:11] "enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better and not resolve irrelevant issues" [14:11] reads the same as [14:11] "enable the contributors to direct their efforts into making Xubuntu better by resolving relevant issues" [14:12] i would just end the sentence after "better." [14:13] elfy, ^ [14:13] irrelevant issues are irrelevant, lol [14:14] or perhaps irrelevant isn't quite the right word. perhaps "peripheral" would be better, if it weren't already overloaded in the computing world [14:14] uah [14:14] peripheral things *are* which we want to improve [14:14] in a way... [14:14] yes, so that contributors don't have to [14:14] well, [14:14] but people might think of "peripheral" as in their printer [14:14] the contributors might have to do that as well :P [14:15] "why u no fix my printer driver?" [14:15] well that's not what we are talking at all in that section [14:15] i know [14:15] i guess you can *always* misunderstand [14:15] ali1234: that question could go into the FAQ ;) [14:15] there is no way to make it completly unambiguous [14:15] i know exactly what you mean, now you've explained it :) [14:16] especially since we explain more of it in the strategy document [14:16] this is just a brief overview [14:16] also grammar wise it should me "resolving" not "resolve" so that it matches "making" [14:17] ochosi, allö [14:17] ochosi, is there really a "Desktop Settings" -item in the settings manager? [14:17] or isn't it just "Desktop" ? [14:17] unless you mean "should be made as good as possible and not reolve irrelevant issues" - which actually makes sense... hmm [14:18] knome: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-03-25-151742.php [14:18] ochosi, why you write "Desktop Settings" in slideshow? [14:18] :P [14:18] or, Y U [14:18] did i? [14:18] yeah... [14:18] nice to see you are up to the current internet trends knome [14:19] if i did, i meant "Desktop settings" [14:19] weirdly enough, it's not translated to finnish... [14:20] * ochosi needs coffee [14:20] bbiab [14:20] * knome stubbornly translates [14:20] we need more xfce translations downstream [14:20] and i need xfce translation access [14:21] ochosi, it's in the "app path", so it should be as the item says, not anything additional [14:21] ochosi: when I've gone to ibus settings in the recent past it has had 'use system keyboard layout' ticked [14:21] which is also set in the keyboard settings in settings-manager as US [14:22] so fiddling with a default isn't going to help [14:22] yeah so the problem with that sentence is it isn't clear if it means "the infrastructure should not solve irrelevant issues" or "contributors should not solve irrelevant issues" [14:23] ochosi: just checked one of todays installs - concurs with that [14:24] ochosi: ibus would be fine where it is I suspect if the system keyboard layout was set correctly [14:47] knome: thanks for the heads up on ubiquity slideshow [14:47] after uploading it, I'll take a look at the about page [14:48] slickymasterWork, after looking at the about page, look at the tour page ;) [14:48] alright. Anyway what was the problem with the ubiquity pot files? [14:49] they were stuck in the import queue [14:49] for some unknown reason [14:50] well, what it matters is that is fixed :) [14:54] yep [14:54] imports were forced today [14:55] i did a few tweets on twitter, those of you who are registered, please retweet: [14:55] https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/448472539128680448 [14:55] https://twitter.com/Xubuntu/status/448472851247808513 [14:58] * slickymasterWork doesn't have twitter [14:59] knome: super - was just about to ask if that had been done :) [14:59] * elfy doesn't have twitter either [15:07] knome, question, in "We'd love to hear about your experiences with Xubuntu. You can share them on the Xubuntu users mailing list" should i add that its only in english? [15:08] yes [15:08] that would be fair [15:10] i just discovered the whisker menu. is this new in trusty or am I just a slowpoke? [15:10] the whiskermenu is enabled by default the first time in trusty [15:10] perfect [15:10] i must have had an old profile :) [15:11] :/ i've done the translations but it doesnt accept them [15:12] are you in the spanish translation team for ubuntu? [15:12] probably not [15:12] that's why they aren't accepted [15:13] right [15:13] i asked to join [15:14] yep, cool [15:19] knome: ubiquity pot file uploaded [15:19] in https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/trusty/+source/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/+imports its status is Needs Review [15:20] slickymasterWork, huh? [15:20] po file you mean? [15:21] apparently, i can't approve that... [15:21] do you have any idea of who gets to review the translations? local teams? is there any automatic trigger that launches the review call? [15:21] yes, I meant po file :P [15:21] i've no idea [15:23] my fear is that the review call might end up lying in Portuguese translators mailing list team [15:23] lol [15:23] well, poke them [15:23] and no one will do anything [15:23] if they aren't active, apply to be an admin [15:23] * elfy lends slickymasterWork his sharp forum poking stick [15:23] and approve yourself ;) [15:23] that team is in some sort of a limb state [15:24] limbo :) [15:24] thanks elfy ;) [15:24] +o [15:24] unless it's 'armless ... [15:24] in the meanwhile, I'll think I'll copy/paste each string into rosetta [15:24] at least I'll get things done [15:25] elfy, well done [15:25] sorry - had to be done ... [15:32] the pt.po is approved [15:36] bbl [15:37] knome: oddly the po file status is now 'Approved' [15:37] who the hell approve it? [15:37] [15:32] the pt.po is approved [15:37] [15:36] bbl [15:38] you'd quit [15:38] yeah, it's this lousy connectivity I have here :P [15:39] thanks knome [15:39] and thanks elfy, always a gentleman [15:39] welcome as always :) [15:42] elfy: but the system keyboard is set correctly, you confirmed that with the localectl output [15:42] and afaik xfce's keyboard-settings have "use system default" as default [15:45] ochosi: yes agreed [15:45] and it used to work fine for me :) [15:47] I'd sya perhaps it's ubiquity - but then wouldn't the greeter want to use US [15:49] posted call for testing on fb and g+ [15:50] elfy: the greeter uses the system settings and you can't change the layout there [15:51] but yeah, the only pointer we have so far is that removing ibus fixed things for you... [15:51] (and that's not very much, tbh) [15:53] pleia2: ta :) [15:53] not very much? :D [15:54] ochosi: yea :( so - from what I can observe greeter uses system settings - which at that point is GB, then once logged in system sets to US [15:54] elfy: that's misleading [15:54] it doesn't use the system settings once logged [15:54] in [15:55] that's exactly your problem [15:55] it gets overridden by en_US for some odd reason [15:55] if it would use the system settings (like the greeter), everything would be dandy [15:55] was the output of localectl already posted? [15:55] yup [15:55] http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7151268/ [15:56] this is it ^ [15:56] yes - but if you go look at gui's then once logged in system settings appear as US [15:56] the xfce keyboard settings dialog? [15:56] yep [15:57] but xfce is told to use the system default [15:59] so my system kb layout is DE, but if I create a new user account the user layout is set to en_US (ibus) [16:03] brainwash: and localectl says DE? [16:05] ochosi: de, nodeadkeys [16:05] so yeah, a bit strange [16:06] so the question is, where does ibus get that info from? [16:06] accountsservice does save input_sources per user account [16:06] maybe if that info is missing... [16:06] like for a new user [16:07] aren't we looking at this the wrong way - why worry about a new user - and not just worry about what someone installing is getting [16:08] also - just did a vm upgrade test, so someone with a perfectly working keyboard set up in 12.04 ends up with a fubar one in 14.04 [16:08] elfy: well i suppose that'd be the same (new user = new install) [16:09] and we should care about new users too! [16:09] :D [16:09] mmm - possibly, but a new install is getting information input during install [16:11] brainwash: I'll care about new users when ones telling the damned thing what they want are ok :p [16:13] so telling ibus to use the system xkb layout does not help? [16:14] yes it does [16:15] I've said that at some point [16:15] but that is beside the point - as you have to go and do it :) [16:16] right, we can apply this setting via xubuntu-default-settings [16:16] yup [16:16] until we know what is really going on [16:16] that is one way to deal with it [16:16] ok - so who's going to check all the languages ;) [16:16] s/layouts [16:17] why would that be necessary? [16:17] i thought that works generally? [16:17] no idea ochosi [16:18] i thought you "said that at some point"? [16:18] or can we set the setting to be whatever the system layout is [16:18] ochosi: I did - I checked for me [16:19] nah, using the system layout is the only thing i think [16:19] i'm not even sure yet how ibus stores its config [16:19] I did try to find something but couldn't [16:20]