[00:01] <rick_h_> here's a thought for you https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/448596654426300416
[00:32] <jrwren> cmaloney: my beard is MUCH larger now
[00:32] <cmaloney> jrwren: Apparently all the cool kids are doing it now
[00:32] <cmaloney> waf is working on a luxurious beard.
[00:33] <cmaloney> I unfortunately am beard-challenged. :)
[00:33] <rick_h_> yea, I just skipped grey and going to white beard
[00:33] <rick_h_> I feel like I'll be a more unique pirate name if I go for 'white beard the cranky'
[00:33] <jrwren> i'll clean up some time in the next month
[00:33] <cmaloney> jrwren: No, you won't. :)
[00:33] <jrwren> i will or my wife will kill me
[00:34] <cmaloney> Once you go beard you never go back
[10:08] <cmaloney> morning
[10:45] <rick_h_> ugh
[11:02] <cmaloney> rick_h_: That good eh?
[11:04] <rick_h_> is it friday yet?
[11:06] <cmaloney> Almost htere
[11:06] <cmaloney> there even
[12:01] <brousch> Too many conferences! http://eepurl.com/Rb2SL
[12:18] <cmaloney> Heh
[12:18] <cmaloney> Yeah, I got that one as well
[12:18] <cmaloney> And had it not been after PyCon / Penguicon / Anniversary I think I might consider it
[12:19] <cmaloney> as it stands now I'd need some heavy duty convincing
[12:22] <brousch> And only 2 days to submit a talk?!
[12:38] <cmaloney> That doesn't bother me so much. :)
[12:39] <brousch> Wow. The Penguicon programming is really impressive
[12:39] <cmaloney> yeah, Kevin O'Brien et al have done a fine job
[12:39] <cmaloney> There's a lot of tech programming this time around
[12:40] <cmaloney> Though apparently they moved the release party from Friday to Saturday because jcastro can't manage to make Friday.
[12:40] <cmaloney> or so I'm told. :)
[12:42] <jcastro> o/ I will be there!
[12:42] <jcastro> I just found out I don't have to leave either
[12:42] <cmaloney> Oh nice!
[12:42] <cmaloney> However if it's against the Smithees JoDee won't be there.
[12:43] <cmaloney> jcastro: You still doing the Fitbit?
[12:44] <jcastro> no I lose my stupid charger
[12:44] <cmaloney> Ah, bummer.
[12:44] <jcastro> and since I have a flex it's some dumb one of a kind charger
[12:44] <jcastro> not a USB
[12:44] <cmaloney> Yeah, I have the Flex as well
[12:44] <cmaloney> using it with Linux.
[12:44] <jcastro> I just haven't gotten one yet
[12:44] <jcastro> I plan on it
[12:45] <jcastro> rick_h_, around?
[12:45] <rick_h_> jcastro: rgr
[12:45] <cmaloney> He's headed to Howell
[12:45] <cmaloney> or just arriving
[12:46] <rick_h_> hour long commute 1/2 complete
[12:46] <rick_h_> 1 of 2 vs 1/2
[12:46] <cmaloney> heh
[12:46] <jcastro> rick_h_, ok call me when you get a minute, not work related, just funny story
[12:46] <rick_h_> jcastro: k
[12:49] <brousch> The Penguicon programming makes no mention of furries and only 12 mentions of polyamory
[12:55] <cmaloney> brousch: Quick question: how many times have you been to Penguicon?
[12:56] <brousch> 0
[12:56] <brousch> I have only second hand accounts
[12:56] <cmaloney> I think you need to come to recalibrate your impressions of it. :)
[12:56] <cmaloney> Cory Doctorow is coming back of his own volition
[12:57] <brousch> It looks far more respectable this year compared to last time I looked
[13:12] <cmaloney> btw: New Animals as Leaders album is awesom.
[13:15] <jrwren> party party
[13:17] <jrwren> My wife just got into reading Doctorow this year. I think she has read all of his novels now. I think I'll be at penguicon as a result :)
[13:17] <cmaloney> Heh
[13:17] <cmaloney> You do realize that's Oakland County
[13:17] <cmaloney> and Boss Hogg will be waiting.
[13:19] <jrwren> I know.
[13:20] <jrwren> i was in oakland county not long ago!
[13:20] <jrwren> I went to the zoo!
[13:20] <jrwren> it wasn't hell.
[13:20] <jrwren> I may have turned a new leaf.
[13:20] <jrwren> likely because it was literally sunday driving
[13:32] <cmaloney> heh
[13:38] <ColonelPanic001> I should read some more Cory before going
[13:38] <ColonelPanic001> I tend do end up doing it in reverse order
[13:38] <ColonelPanic001> I saw Vinge at Pcon, then read A Fire Upon The Deep, and loved it.
[13:38] <ColonelPanic001> instead of doing it the other way around and getting more out of seeing his panel(s)
[13:39] <cmaloney> heh
[13:39] <cmaloney> Yeah, same here.
[13:48] <jrwren> they are young adult category, so they are typically very quick reads.
[13:49] <jrwren> Little Brother was <3 especially becuase of teh tech realism.
[15:41] <mrgoodcat> good morning everyone
[15:42] <brousch> yes
[15:45] <mrgoodcat> new wolfenstein collectors edition doesn't include a copy of the game
[15:45] <mrgoodcat> ಠ_ಠ
[15:45] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: widox waf cmaloney and people I miss CHC is 7pm early tonight
[15:46] <mrgoodcat> oh good i would have forgotten it's early
[16:07] <jrwren> imma use bookie/tests as a guide for writing good tests.
[16:08] <rick_h_> jrwren: heh, best of luck to you :)
[16:22] <mrgoodcat> jrwren: guide for work, self, or public?
[16:25] <mrgoodcat> made bmark.us/recent my homepage today. so much usefulness on a single page
[16:25] <jrwren> work
[16:26] <rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, I'd consider bookie tests mostly C for the most part
[16:26] <rick_h_> jrwren: so if it's useful awesome, but I'd not make them the upper model
[16:26] <mrgoodcat> what do you mean "mostly C"
[16:26] <greg-g> (rick has high standards)
[16:26] <greg-g> mostly a C grade, not B or A
[16:26] <mrgoodcat> got it
[16:27] <jrwren> yeah. i already gave up :(
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> wow
[16:27] <mrgoodcat> that bad huh?
[16:27] <rick_h_> heh, yea there are bad parts no doubt. They're too functional vs unit'y, at least the web ones
[16:27] <rick_h_> get the job done but meh
[16:28] <rick_h_> well bookie is a 4yr old project. My views on testing and such have expanded a bit in 4yr
[16:28] <mrgoodcat> i would certainly hope so
[16:32] <mrgoodcat> i often wish i had more exposure to TDD
[16:32] <rick_h_> I'm not a big fan of TDD in the strict sense. I find it leads to crappy apis
[16:32] <rick_h_> but yea, more tests is better sooner and more often
[16:32] <mrgoodcat> i mean testing in general
[16:32] <rick_h_> yea, gotcha
[16:33] <mrgoodcat> i've had really limited exposure since i haven't had to work with any real serious codebases. school coding projects are borderline jokes and testing has never been mentioned once in a single class i've ever taken
[16:33] <jrwren> no.. more that what I'm doing sucks and I don't want to test it, cuz I'm a bad dev
[16:33] <mrgoodcat> really frustrating sometimes since it seems such a huge part of the industry
[16:34] <jrwren> rick_h_: but... but... Test Driven Design!!!
[16:34] <jrwren> it leads to gREAT apis
[16:35] <cmaloney> https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/448860315925504002
[16:36] <rick_h_> jrwren: not ime
[16:36] <cmaloney> IME = In My Estimation?
[16:36] <rick_h_> in my experience
[16:37] <cmaloney> ah
[16:37] <cmaloney> imex
[16:37] <cmaloney> IMEx
[16:37] <cmaloney> IMEst.
[16:40] <jrwren> rick_h_: I've used it with success and I've used it with failure.
[16:40] <jrwren> I like the idea of test driven design
[16:40] <jrwren> but it means you are testing for the right design.
[16:41] <jrwren> IMO the whole point is to write the tests for the great API that you want to exist. Then make them pass.
[16:41] <jrwren> if you didn't do that, then yeah, you might get a bad API
[17:25] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, true TDD of one test at a time with the 'smallest change to make the test pass" doesn't consider enough 'big picture'
[17:29] <greg-g> takes some pre-planning
[17:32] <jrwren> rick_h_: exactly. that is test driven dvelopment. different from test driven design
[17:32] <jrwren> the emergent design through test driven development is a crock IMO.
[17:36] <rick_h_> jrwren: +1 we can agree then
[17:40] <jrwren> i'm just really not in the mood to TDD right now. It seems like so much work.
[17:41] <rick_h_> lol
[17:44] <jrwren> i htink I've forgotten how to do it
[17:51] <mrgoodcat> damn long lunch. so behind now >:[
[18:05] <mrgoodcat> thinking about buying that kent beck book everyone always links on the interwebs
[18:18] <cmaloney> Kent Beck book?
[18:18] <cmaloney> Well apparently Google really knows Kent Beck. :)
[18:18] <cmaloney> type: kent beck book
[18:20] <mrgoodcat> his book 'test driven development: by example' is supposed to be the best there is
[18:20] <mrgoodcat> or so says the internet anyways
[18:22] <mrgoodcat> what if your tests aren't testing what you think they are? write tests for your tests :)
[18:23] <brousch> What test framework works best if you are writing a test framework?
[18:24] <mrgoodcat> what if the testing framework has a bug
[18:24] <brousch> Right, that's why you can dog food it
[18:24] <brousch> can't
[18:25] <mrgoodcat> what if x/0 is actually not mathematically impossible? i think is the logical conclusion of that line of thought
[18:40] <jrwren> jcastro: Learn something at Fanzoo tonight. You gonna make it?
[18:40] <jcastro> LTS crunch dude, sorry
[18:40] <jcastro> I will be @ Penguicon though
[18:40] <jrwren> gl hf
[18:40] <jcastro> consider rick and I dead
[18:40] <jcastro> for now
[18:41] <jrwren> you working hard to get python 3.4 into 14.04 ?
[18:41] <jcastro> but not smoser, he's just walking around looking around
[18:41] <jrwren> that is because he works hard the other 50 weeks in the year
[18:41] <rick_h_> no, quickstart into main :)
[18:41] <jcastro> Right now I am working on logstash/elasticsearch/kibana
[18:41] <jrwren> quickstart into main?  juju quickstart?
[18:41] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea
[18:41] <jrwren> jcastro: !!! I was just looking at that on Friday.
[18:42] <jcastro> we have the charms dude
[18:42] <rick_h_> the ES charm is looking hot. I want to use it for Bookie while I'm at pycon
[18:42] <jrwren> jcastro: you realize elasticsearch only supports 2 version of JVM and ubuntu doesn't ship those JVM versions?
[18:42] <jcastro> they are a bit stale upstream version wise, but I'll have that hooked up before release
[18:42] <smoser> jcastro, i just did 3 uplaods today
[18:42] <jrwren> link me to charm. I wanna see how they get old JVM versions on there.
[18:42] <smoser> :)
[18:42] <greg-g> jcastro: ooo, logstash, we put logstash into production a little bit ago, not depended upon yet, but we like it (still migrating logs to it)
[18:42] <jcastro> jrwren, charms have root, whatever unholy JVM shit you wanna do, don't care
[18:42] <jcastro> smoser, <3
[18:43] <rick_h_> lol, smoser to his defense
[18:43] <jrwren> yay! insecure by default - because kibana requires an open port to JVM service.
[18:43] <jrwren> jcastro: so it grabs an OLD sun JVM and installs it?
[18:43] <greg-g> so far only need 3 beefy ES boxes, we'll probably need to bump that up though....
[18:43] <jcastro> this one is using openjdk
[18:44] <jcastro> greg-g, yeah it's like you woke up one day and everyone is using elasticsearch
[18:44] <jcastro> that's how I see it anyway
[18:44] <jrwren> um yeah, your ES charm sucks and is broken.
[18:44] <jrwren> i jsut looked.
[18:44] <jcastro> we've rewritten it
[18:44] <rick_h_> jrwren: which one, there's a couple
[18:45] <jrwren> apt-get install -y default-jre-headless  # <-- recipe for fail
[18:45] <jcastro> we just haven't synced it back into the the store
[18:45] <jrwren> the juju recommended one.
[18:45] <jrwren> i dunno
[18:45] <jcastro> but our new one is hawt, and will get the upstream blessing
[18:45] <jcastro> unless I mess up this call entirely in the next 2 hours
[18:45] <jrwren> https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/search/precise/elasticsearch-3/?text=elasticsearch#code
[18:45] <jcastro> our new one is all ansible-ized
[18:47] <jrwren> you guys have very different values than do I :)
[18:54] <jrwren> jcastro: let me know when you get those charms up. I'd like to test 'em.
[18:55] <jcastro> 14.04ish
[18:55] <jrwren> so the will be trust charms, not precise?
[18:55] <jcastro> they'll be precise too
[18:55] <jrwren> cool
[18:55] <jcastro> the target for new charms will still be precise for a long time
[18:56] <jrwren> that is kind of what I figured.
[18:56] <jcastro> with forward porting to trusty, not the other way around
[18:56] <jcastro> precise is not even to 50% of the lifecycle
[18:56] <jrwren> how does juju handle that?
[18:56] <jcastro> juju deploy precise/foo
[18:56] <jcastro> juju deploy trusty/foo
[18:56] <jcastro> it's just a different series
[19:36] <jrwren> http://www.gnome.org/news/2014/03/gnome-3-12-released/  so sad - no free codec love.
[19:36] <jrwren> video requires h264 instead of webm
[19:37] <greg-g> :/
[22:32] <jrwren> so sad that I have to wait for jcastro ES charm
[22:53] <jcastro> jrwren, btw on the call today they told me they prefer openjdk
[22:53] <jcastro> jrwren, charms are upgradeable, you can play now and upgrade later
[23:05] <jrwren> who is they? ES?
[23:23] <cmaloney> Evening
[23:23] <rick_h_> party
[23:23] <cmaloney> jcastro: If given the choice between Sun JDK and OPenJDK I'd prefer OpenJDK too
[23:46] <jrwren> its what I was using with ES.
[23:46] <jrwren> it doesn't work with ES :(
[23:46] <jrwren> ES claims to require a specific patch level with know vuln.  newer java has sec fixes but bugs which mess with lucense and thus mess with ES
[23:46] <jrwren> basically, ES is a ghetto
[23:55] <Havenstance2> anyone have an idea how to forward a port in zentyal?