[00:01] here's a thought for you https://twitter.com/steveklabnik/status/448596654426300416 [00:32] cmaloney: my beard is MUCH larger now [00:32] jrwren: Apparently all the cool kids are doing it now [00:32] waf is working on a luxurious beard. [00:33] I unfortunately am beard-challenged. :) [00:33] yea, I just skipped grey and going to white beard [00:33] I feel like I'll be a more unique pirate name if I go for 'white beard the cranky' [00:33] i'll clean up some time in the next month [00:33] jrwren: No, you won't. :) [00:33] i will or my wife will kill me [00:34] Once you go beard you never go back [10:08] morning [10:45] ugh [11:02] rick_h_: That good eh? [11:04] is it friday yet? [11:06] Almost htere [11:06] there even [12:01] Too many conferences! http://eepurl.com/Rb2SL [12:18] Heh [12:18] Yeah, I got that one as well [12:18] And had it not been after PyCon / Penguicon / Anniversary I think I might consider it [12:19] as it stands now I'd need some heavy duty convincing [12:22] And only 2 days to submit a talk?! [12:38] That doesn't bother me so much. :) [12:39] Wow. The Penguicon programming is really impressive [12:39] yeah, Kevin O'Brien et al have done a fine job [12:39] There's a lot of tech programming this time around [12:40] Though apparently they moved the release party from Friday to Saturday because jcastro can't manage to make Friday. [12:40] or so I'm told. :) [12:42] o/ I will be there! [12:42] I just found out I don't have to leave either [12:42] Oh nice! [12:42] However if it's against the Smithees JoDee won't be there. [12:43] jcastro: You still doing the Fitbit? [12:44] no I lose my stupid charger [12:44] Ah, bummer. [12:44] and since I have a flex it's some dumb one of a kind charger [12:44] not a USB [12:44] Yeah, I have the Flex as well [12:44] using it with Linux. [12:44] I just haven't gotten one yet [12:44] I plan on it [12:45] rick_h_, around? [12:45] jcastro: rgr [12:45] He's headed to Howell [12:45] or just arriving [12:46] hour long commute 1/2 complete [12:46] 1 of 2 vs 1/2 [12:46] heh [12:46] rick_h_, ok call me when you get a minute, not work related, just funny story [12:46] jcastro: k [12:49] The Penguicon programming makes no mention of furries and only 12 mentions of polyamory [12:55] brousch: Quick question: how many times have you been to Penguicon? [12:56] 0 [12:56] I have only second hand accounts [12:56] I think you need to come to recalibrate your impressions of it. :) [12:56] Cory Doctorow is coming back of his own volition [12:57] It looks far more respectable this year compared to last time I looked [13:12] btw: New Animals as Leaders album is awesom. [13:15] party party [13:17] My wife just got into reading Doctorow this year. I think she has read all of his novels now. I think I'll be at penguicon as a result :) [13:17] Heh [13:17] You do realize that's Oakland County [13:17] and Boss Hogg will be waiting. [13:19] I know. [13:20] i was in oakland county not long ago! [13:20] I went to the zoo! [13:20] it wasn't hell. [13:20] I may have turned a new leaf. [13:20] likely because it was literally sunday driving [13:32] heh [13:38] I should read some more Cory before going [13:38] I tend do end up doing it in reverse order [13:38] I saw Vinge at Pcon, then read A Fire Upon The Deep, and loved it. [13:38] instead of doing it the other way around and getting more out of seeing his panel(s) [13:39] heh [13:39] Yeah, same here. [13:48] they are young adult category, so they are typically very quick reads. [13:49] Little Brother was <3 especially becuase of teh tech realism. [15:41] good morning everyone [15:42] yes [15:45] new wolfenstein collectors edition doesn't include a copy of the game [15:45] ಠ_ಠ [15:45] mrgoodcat: widox waf cmaloney and people I miss CHC is 7pm early tonight [15:46] oh good i would have forgotten it's early [16:07] imma use bookie/tests as a guide for writing good tests. [16:08] jrwren: heh, best of luck to you :) [16:22] jrwren: guide for work, self, or public? [16:25] made bmark.us/recent my homepage today. so much usefulness on a single page [16:25] work [16:26] jrwren: hmm, I'd consider bookie tests mostly C for the most part [16:26] jrwren: so if it's useful awesome, but I'd not make them the upper model [16:26] what do you mean "mostly C" [16:26] (rick has high standards) [16:26] mostly a C grade, not B or A [16:26] got it [16:27] yeah. i already gave up :( [16:27] wow [16:27] that bad huh? [16:27] heh, yea there are bad parts no doubt. They're too functional vs unit'y, at least the web ones [16:27] get the job done but meh [16:28] well bookie is a 4yr old project. My views on testing and such have expanded a bit in 4yr [16:28] i would certainly hope so [16:32] i often wish i had more exposure to TDD [16:32] I'm not a big fan of TDD in the strict sense. I find it leads to crappy apis [16:32] but yea, more tests is better sooner and more often [16:32] i mean testing in general [16:32] yea, gotcha [16:33] i've had really limited exposure since i haven't had to work with any real serious codebases. school coding projects are borderline jokes and testing has never been mentioned once in a single class i've ever taken [16:33] no.. more that what I'm doing sucks and I don't want to test it, cuz I'm a bad dev [16:33] really frustrating sometimes since it seems such a huge part of the industry [16:34] rick_h_: but... but... Test Driven Design!!! [16:34] it leads to gREAT apis [16:35] https://twitter.com/squeekyhoho/status/448860315925504002 [16:36] jrwren: not ime [16:36] IME = In My Estimation? [16:36] in my experience [16:37] ah [16:37] imex [16:37] IMEx [16:37] IMEst. [16:40] rick_h_: I've used it with success and I've used it with failure. [16:40] I like the idea of test driven design [16:40] but it means you are testing for the right design. [16:41] IMO the whole point is to write the tests for the great API that you want to exist. Then make them pass. [16:41] if you didn't do that, then yeah, you might get a bad API [17:25] jrwren: yea, true TDD of one test at a time with the 'smallest change to make the test pass" doesn't consider enough 'big picture' [17:29] takes some pre-planning [17:32] rick_h_: exactly. that is test driven dvelopment. different from test driven design [17:32] the emergent design through test driven development is a crock IMO. [17:36] jrwren: +1 we can agree then === havnestance3 is now known as Havenstance [17:40] i'm just really not in the mood to TDD right now. It seems like so much work. [17:41] lol [17:44] i htink I've forgotten how to do it [17:51] damn long lunch. so behind now >:[ [18:05] thinking about buying that kent beck book everyone always links on the interwebs [18:18] Kent Beck book? [18:18] Well apparently Google really knows Kent Beck. :) [18:18] type: kent beck book [18:20] his book 'test driven development: by example' is supposed to be the best there is [18:20] or so says the internet anyways [18:22] what if your tests aren't testing what you think they are? write tests for your tests :) [18:23] What test framework works best if you are writing a test framework? [18:24] what if the testing framework has a bug [18:24] Right, that's why you can dog food it [18:24] can't [18:25] what if x/0 is actually not mathematically impossible? i think is the logical conclusion of that line of thought [18:40] jcastro: Learn something at Fanzoo tonight. You gonna make it? [18:40] LTS crunch dude, sorry [18:40] I will be @ Penguicon though [18:40] gl hf [18:40] consider rick and I dead [18:40] for now [18:41] you working hard to get python 3.4 into 14.04 ? [18:41] but not smoser, he's just walking around looking around [18:41] that is because he works hard the other 50 weeks in the year [18:41] no, quickstart into main :) [18:41] Right now I am working on logstash/elasticsearch/kibana [18:41] quickstart into main? juju quickstart? [18:41] jrwren: yea [18:41] jcastro: !!! I was just looking at that on Friday. [18:42] we have the charms dude [18:42] the ES charm is looking hot. I want to use it for Bookie while I'm at pycon [18:42] jcastro: you realize elasticsearch only supports 2 version of JVM and ubuntu doesn't ship those JVM versions? [18:42] they are a bit stale upstream version wise, but I'll have that hooked up before release [18:42] jcastro, i just did 3 uplaods today [18:42] link me to charm. I wanna see how they get old JVM versions on there. [18:42] :) [18:42] jcastro: ooo, logstash, we put logstash into production a little bit ago, not depended upon yet, but we like it (still migrating logs to it) [18:42] jrwren, charms have root, whatever unholy JVM shit you wanna do, don't care [18:42] smoser, <3 [18:43] lol, smoser to his defense [18:43] yay! insecure by default - because kibana requires an open port to JVM service. [18:43] jcastro: so it grabs an OLD sun JVM and installs it? [18:43] so far only need 3 beefy ES boxes, we'll probably need to bump that up though.... [18:43] this one is using openjdk [18:44] greg-g, yeah it's like you woke up one day and everyone is using elasticsearch [18:44] that's how I see it anyway [18:44] um yeah, your ES charm sucks and is broken. [18:44] i jsut looked. [18:44] we've rewritten it [18:44] jrwren: which one, there's a couple [18:45] apt-get install -y default-jre-headless # <-- recipe for fail [18:45] we just haven't synced it back into the the store [18:45] the juju recommended one. [18:45] i dunno [18:45] but our new one is hawt, and will get the upstream blessing [18:45] unless I mess up this call entirely in the next 2 hours [18:45] https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/search/precise/elasticsearch-3/?text=elasticsearch#code [18:45] our new one is all ansible-ized [18:47] you guys have very different values than do I :) [18:54] jcastro: let me know when you get those charms up. I'd like to test 'em. [18:55] 14.04ish [18:55] so the will be trust charms, not precise? [18:55] they'll be precise too [18:55] cool [18:55] the target for new charms will still be precise for a long time [18:56] that is kind of what I figured. [18:56] with forward porting to trusty, not the other way around [18:56] precise is not even to 50% of the lifecycle [18:56] how does juju handle that? [18:56] juju deploy precise/foo [18:56] juju deploy trusty/foo [18:56] it's just a different series [19:36] http://www.gnome.org/news/2014/03/gnome-3-12-released/ so sad - no free codec love. [19:36] video requires h264 instead of webm [19:37] :/ [22:32] so sad that I have to wait for jcastro ES charm [22:53] jrwren, btw on the call today they told me they prefer openjdk [22:53] jrwren, charms are upgradeable, you can play now and upgrade later [23:05] who is they? ES? [23:23] Evening [23:23] party [23:23] jcastro: If given the choice between Sun JDK and OPenJDK I'd prefer OpenJDK too [23:46] its what I was using with ES. [23:46] it doesn't work with ES :( [23:46] ES claims to require a specific patch level with know vuln. newer java has sec fixes but bugs which mess with lucense and thus mess with ES [23:46] basically, ES is a ghetto [23:55] anyone have an idea how to forward a port in zentyal?