| holstein | and, you have tested the sticks? and the memory? and the md5's and the installation media? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| ash_m | okay, I loaded gparted... all the partitions I had set up during my install are there; what I normally do is just select each one and click "delete selected partition" for each one and then commit the changes | 00:01 |
| holstein | ash_m: i do what is necessary.. | 00:01 |
| holstein | ash_m: deleting the partitions does that..and, you really shouldnt need to | 00:01 |
| holstein | ash_m: the installer should offer to install on the entire drive | 00:01 |
| ash_m | I haven't tested any of those things | 00:01 |
| ash_m | holstein: over what was previously installed? | 00:01 |
| holstein | ash_m: correct | 00:01 |
| ash_m | okay. so I'll forget gparted for now | 00:02 |
| ash_m | should I just launch the installer from live? | 00:02 |
| holstein | ash_m: again.. i do what is needed with the tools | 00:02 |
| holstein | ash_m: there is no "should".. just you, trying to install and what you need to do to accomplish that | 00:02 |
| ash_m | okay, so I'm back at the partition screen; everything is there as I set it up before... | 00:03 |
| holstein | ok.. what partition screen? what is your question? | 00:04 |
| ash_m | however, it doesn't show any of the mount points for these partitions | 00:04 |
| holstein | ash_m: it? | 00:04 |
| holstein | some partitioning screen? gparted? the installer? | 00:04 |
| ash_m | holstein: it = the installer | 00:04 |
| ash_m | like, I allocated 4GB to /, 2GB to /var, and 2GB to /usr | 00:04 |
| holstein | ash_m: it'll be in the installation options.. "replace".. it'll warn about replacing and removing data | 00:04 |
| holstein | ash_m: ok.. just use the defaults | 00:05 |
| holstein | ash_m: you could be partitioning incorrectly | 00:05 |
| holstein | ash_m: just let the installer automagically do it for you.. | 00:05 |
| ash_m | holstein: problem is that the defaults generally allocate space for swap; which I don't seem to need (and rather don't want because it takes up the whole drive and I can't install programs I need) | 00:05 |
| holstein | ash_m: sure.. and you can always change that afterwards | 00:06 |
| holstein | ash_m: if you are saying "what wrong with my installations?".. the answer im proposing is, your are manually partitioning incorrectly | 00:06 |
| ash_m | okay; you got it | 00:06 |
| holstein | ash_m: try the defaults.. see if things work "as expected".. disable or remove swap if you want.. though, its not "bad" to have it there, just in case | 00:07 |
| ash_m | holstein: good point. if everything goes off without a hitch, then there must be something I'm doing wrong with the partitioning | 00:07 |
| holstein | or, with the memory.. the usb stick.. the md5 sum of the image. the installer usb you made.. etc | 00:08 |
| ash_m | holstein: going through a couple prompts | 00:08 |
| ash_m | well, the installer has work several times before on fresh usb drives. I don't think that's the problem. I was following xubuntu suggested instructions pretty closely | 00:08 |
| holstein | ash_m: pretty closely? what did you change? | 00:09 |
| ash_m | okay, it's installing auto-magically | 00:09 |
| ash_m | mer; I only say pretty closely because I can't swear by percisely; but if I had to guess, I would say it's percise. | 00:11 |
| ash_m | well, it's installing right now. I guess I just have to wait and see | 00:14 |
| * ash_m crosses fingers | 00:14 | |
| holstein | you'll know a little more in a few minutes.. either way | 00:14 |
| delt | hello | 00:56 |
| delt | so i'm back with 12.10.... except even after updating all the software i'm still stuck with xfce 4.8 | 00:56 |
| delt | there's no packages for 4.10 :( | 00:57 |
| holstein | delt: 12.10 is not supported | 00:57 |
| delt | uh what | 00:57 |
| holstein | 12.04 is... | 00:57 |
| holstein | its an LTS | 00:57 |
| delt | oh yeah sorry 12.04 i meant | 00:58 |
| delt | ubuntustudio-12.04.4-dvd-i386.iso that's the one i installed. | 00:59 |
| holstein | right.. its older.. but, i thought you were onto somethign with the bios causing your USB device to fail.. | 00:59 |
| delt | yeah, still failing/working sporadically :/ | 01:00 |
| delt | so i'm stuck with xfce 4.8? | 01:00 |
| holstein | then, just move on to 14.04 or whatever. you have failing hardware and no problem with the newer 14.04 kernel supporting your USB device | 01:01 |
| holstein | delt: you are not "stuck" in any way anywhere | 01:01 |
| delt | yeah but i'm getting sick and tired of reinstalling 3 versions of this os.... | 01:02 |
| delt | i actually tried the 64 bit version but 32bit apps didn't work | 01:02 |
| holstein | delt: sure.. you are trying to address a hardware failure with software.. | 01:03 |
| delt | 14.04 beta had some other problems as well | 01:05 |
| holstein | which is why i said, if i were going back, i would go to 12.04, due to the lenght of support being so much longer than 13.10 | 01:05 |
| delt | ok, so how do i install xfce 4.10 on this? | 01:06 |
| holstein | delt: i wouldnt.. but, you can add ppa's or just install whatever you like | 01:07 |
| delt | faaaaaackk i'm gonna have to bring back this motherboard to the store and replace it :( :( :( | 01:18 |
| delt | THIS SUCKS :( | 01:18 |
| knome | delt, whatever, calm down | 01:18 |
| holstein | delt: we should use the #xubuntu-offtopic channel for this discussion | 01:19 |
| delt | yeah whatever :/ | 01:20 |
| delt | wait a minute.... it MIGHT be my power supply. i'm using an old power supply, it's one of the first ones that had a 24 pin atx connector | 01:27 |
| delt | since the midi keyboard is also skipping some notes when powered through USB but sending data through the 5-pin midi cable.... | 01:28 |
| delt | ok, powering it through usb from the other machine, and having it send midi data through 5-pin cable to the sound card on this one.... | 01:31 |
| holstein | delt: please /join the #xubuntu-offtopic channel for this discussion. thanks! | 01:31 |
| delt | oh yeah..sorry | 01:32 |
| HypothesisFrog | hi. How do I install the ffmpeg package on 14.04? | 03:16 |
| holstein | HypothesisFrog: i would just use a package manager | 03:16 |
| cfhowlett | HypothesisFrog, ask in #ubuntu_1 | 03:16 |
| cfhowlett | #ubuntu+1 | 03:16 |
| HypothesisFrog | holstein yeah it doesn't appear to be in the repos | 03:18 |
| holstein | HypothesisFrog: i dont see it listed.. | 03:21 |
| holstein | http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=trusty&keywords=ffmpeg might help | 03:22 |
| HypothesisFrog | holstein yeah thanks. | 03:22 |
| Rarity1 | Hey all. Xubuntu is freezing, at first it seemed random but now it seems to be happening when I try to open anything, opening a terminal, a file browser window, a settings window~ | 06:43 |
| baizon | Rarity1: check you memory with memtest | 06:44 |
| Rarity1 | ugh, when I go to the grub menu to do it it's frozen | 06:51 |
| baizon | Rarity1: try to run from a live cd | 06:52 |
| Rarity1 | Well thanks~ I guess I might try to solve my problems tomorrow it's getting late x) | 07:20 |
| achton | hi all - can I upgrade from 13.10 to 14.04 final beta with apt? if so, any quick pointers/heads up? | 09:38 |
| baizon | achton: update-maanger -d | 09:50 |
| achton | baizon: thanks, how easy can it get? :) How does that method compare to do-release-upgrade ? | 09:52 |
| baizon | achton: this will lauch the update manager with the option of displaying the new distro | 09:53 |
| baizon | do-release-uprade is for server/terminal upgrade | 09:53 |
| baizon | both method should work | 09:53 |
| baizon | never tried do-release-upgrade | 09:54 |
| Unit193 | I have, it's nice. | 09:55 |
| achton | ok, update-manager -d did a quick operation and now asks me to restart to let it finish. Is that expected behaviour? | 09:56 |
| achton | I'm just wondering if it supports upgrading to beta releases as well? | 09:56 |
| elfy | it does | 09:59 |
| elfy | we use it to test upgrades | 09:59 |
| achton | thanks elfy and baizon for the info | 09:59 |
| === gary is now known as Guest33413 | ||
| xubuntu001 | would this be the right place to talk to xubuntu devs? just ask a few questions and maybe give some suggestions | 11:09 |
| knome | if it's a support question it's the right place | 11:09 |
| xubuntu001 | thanks knome | 11:10 |
| xubuntu001 | well ... i am trying to install xu 13.10 on an "EFI-BIOS" notebook and it fails at the last step | 11:10 |
| xubuntu001 | saying "grub" failed to install ... so it reverts all the work | 11:10 |
| xubuntu001 | i am on a REALLY slow connection (coz india sucks) and therefore, having to download all those packages everytime i try to install is driving me and the connection crazy! | 11:11 |
| xubuntu001 | any suggestions? | 11:11 |
| cfhowlett | xubuntu001, do you have the ISO? | 11:14 |
| xubuntu001 | yes i do | 11:16 |
| xubuntu001 | in fact, right now i am running off a usb stick that i created using unetbootin and that iso image | 11:17 |
| cfhowlett | !md5sum|xubuntu001, did you verify the iso? | 11:20 |
| ubottu | xubuntu001, did you verify the iso?: To verify your Ubuntu ISO image (or other files for which an MD5 checksum is provided), see http://help.ubuntu.com/community/HowToMD5SUM or http://www.linuxquestions.org/linux/answers/LQ_ISO/Checking_the_md5sum_in_Windows | 11:20 |
| xubuntu001 | yes sir! the iso has been verified. in fact, i have installed 5 systems using this exact same usb stick | 11:21 |
| xubuntu001 | and all other installs have succeeded. the only problem with the current system is that it is a "pure windows 8" system. i really don't use windows 8.1 so i removed that entire hdd and replaced it with a brand new hdd. | 11:22 |
| xubuntu001 | now, trying to install on this "EFI bios" based system gives me "grub install" errors. | 11:23 |
| cfhowlett | xubuntu001, uefi | 11:23 |
| cfhowlett | !uefi | 11:23 |
| ubottu | UEFI is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. It is meant as a replacement for the BIOS. For information on how to set up and install Ubuntu and its derivatives on UEFI machines please read https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI | 11:23 |
| xubuntu001 | ok! uefi | 11:26 |
| xubuntu001 | i have already gone through that doc. doesn't help my case. please note: i am using xubuntu. | 11:27 |
| xubuntu524 | It's possible to have help ? I have a bug with linux and left click on mouse... I am able to use it 30secs afterboot and after.. I just able to move them | 12:31 |
| allstarsnorks2 | Hi guys. I want to know why Xubuntu detects my VirtualBox display as 640x480, even after installing Guest Additions? | 13:05 |
| bgardner | allstarsnorks2: Yo | 13:23 |
| allstarsnorks2 | Hi | 13:23 |
| bgardner | allstarsnorks2: Okay, I'm still researching but my guess is we need to start at your Guest Additions install. Did it go in without ANY errors? | 13:24 |
| allstarsnorks2 | It says that there was an unknown X Window system drivers | 13:24 |
| allstarsnorks2 | I don't know why, though. | 13:25 |
| bgardner | allstarsnorks2: Sounds about right. Can you pastebin your /var/log/Xorg.0.log ? | 13:25 |
| allstarsnorks2 | I can't right now. Turned my PC off. | 13:26 |
| allstarsnorks2 | But I think it was my install. I'm using X 14.04 Beta | 13:27 |
| Artemis3 | i have the feeling i won't be able to upgrade my xubuntu the easy way :( | 14:43 |
| Artemis3 | well i guess thats a good excuse for clean install | 14:44 |
| RighteousAura | How can I decrease the size of the toolbar icons in thunar? | 15:45 |
| holstein | RighteousAura: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/thunar-toolbar-buttons-icons-are-really-huge-749919/ might be relevant | 15:47 |
| RighteousAura | I've tried adding that fix to my gtkrc but it doesn't seem to change anything. Does it matter where I put it in the gtkrc? | 15:50 |
| holstein | RighteousAura: it may.. and you have logged out and back in? it might be something that needs reloaded | 15:51 |
| RighteousAura | I just switched between themes and back to that one which usually works. I'll try logging out | 15:53 |
| Meerkat | my Xubuntu 13.10 pc froze a while ago. Mouse and keyboard did not work and the clock stopped. How can I find out what caused this? | 17:00 |
| === azeam_afk is now known as azeam | ||
| Artemis3 | Meerkat, could be a hardware issue? you couldn't even ctrl alt f1? | 17:21 |
| Meerkat | no, that didn't work unfortunately. That's usually my first response. :) | 17:24 |
| Artemis3 | or as last resource, while holding both alt & print-screen, type: reisub ? | 17:24 |
| Meerkat | never thought of reisub, haven't needed that for a few years. Will try it if a freeze happens again. | 17:25 |
| Artemis3 | sometimes pushing power a single time to try soft power off works too, or ssh into the machine if you can | 17:25 |
| Artemis3 | if you cant reisub, probably hardware issue, i have sometimes seen the keyboard leds flashing in such situation | 17:25 |
| Artemis3 | of course why there is an issue, could be evil proprietary driver (ie ati?) or gpu failing overheating, or psu failing? i would try memtest just in case | 17:27 |
| starrats | wow someone else is having the same problem I'm having but it's with 14.04 and the cursor is freezing at the splash screen aka the password window at start-up | 17:27 |
| Artemis3 | and if you boot 13.10 it works? | 17:29 |
| Artemis3 | (ie. from usb) | 17:29 |
| Meerkat | Several of my log files contain "\00" over and over at the time of the crash. The video card driver is the open source one available in "Software & Updates". I will run a memtest, good idea. | 17:29 |
| Artemis3 | which gpu? | 17:29 |
| Meerkat | amd wrestler HD 3710 | 17:30 |
| Meerkat | on a laptop | 17:30 |
| Artemis3 | some opensource drivers won't engage the gpu power saving causing overheating | 17:30 |
| Artemis3 | oh | 17:30 |
| Meerkat | the PC has been on for 9-ish days straight, so I doubt it would be an overheating issue all of a sudden. | 17:30 |
| Artemis3 | well as long as its not too hot to the touch... | 17:31 |
| sohail-ahmed | I need to add another interface to my /etc/network/interfaces file, so that the INTERNET that work in my office does not get disturbed and I can also use INTERNET on the same machine from home. I do not have network manager installed. Any help? | 19:21 |
| Artemis3 | sohail-ahmed, and both are dhcp? | 19:44 |
| sohail-ahmed | no. | 19:45 |
| sohail-ahmed | Artemis3, The home INTERNET connection can be made dhcp but I prefer to have a static settings so as to allow a ssh connnection with my desktop | 19:47 |
| adrenaline_ | I would create two interfaces then write a script to cp the correct interface file for whereever you are. | 19:47 |
| adrenaline_ | interface.work and interface.home | 19:47 |
| Artemis3 | i think using dyndns is way easier haha | 19:47 |
| Artemis3 | i ssh to home all the time, and i can't have static ip, the isp doesnt provide it | 19:48 |
| sohail-ahmed | adrenaline, yes I agree that would be a solution but I thing their has to be a better one. I remmeber the time using network-manager aand through it was pretty easy. | 19:48 |
| sohail-ahmed | no. ssh over lan | 19:48 |
| adrenaline_ | I thought he/she didn't want to use network manager | 19:49 |
| sohail-ahmed | since I am used to ssh using Ip | 19:49 |
| adrenaline_ | What is your end goal and what is happening now? | 19:50 |
| adrenaline_ | Are you trying to ssh to your house based on an ip you get at work? | 19:50 |
| sohail-ahmed | I have a laptop that I use in my office and in my home. At present it is configureed to use the office internet and now I want it to use my home internet | 19:51 |
| Artemis3 | sohail-ahmed, there is also ipv6, feels magical, hehe, install miredo and suddendly you have a solid ipv6 address | 19:51 |
| adrenaline_ | I am confused what do you mean use your office internet and home internet? | 19:51 |
| adrenaline_ | Do you not have dhcp? | 19:52 |
| sohail-ahmed | adernaline, ssh is not a problem. All I want to use internet with one interface file | 19:52 |
| Artemis3 | sohail-ahmed, on the other hand, if you can configure your router at home, you could use the same ip segment | 19:52 |
| sohail-ahmed | office interenet = internet in office and home internet = internet at home | 19:52 |
| adrenaline_ | ok so your lappy should be requesting a dhcp from what ever network it is on | 19:52 |
| Artemis3 | thats the easy way, hehe | 19:52 |
| Artemis3 | seems at work he is doing manual config | 19:53 |
| sohail-ahmed | without network manager. | 19:53 |
| sohail-ahmed | yes | 19:53 |
| adrenaline_ | I get that but if you take your lappy to the office it should request a dhcp from your office. then when you take it home it should request a dhcp from their. What is actually happening? | 19:53 |
| Artemis3 | no no | 19:53 |
| adrenaline_ | Why are you doing a manual config at the office? | 19:54 |
| sohail-ahmed | adernaline_I don't want to use network manager | 19:54 |
| Artemis3 | um | 19:54 |
| Artemis3 | no one mentioned network manager | 19:54 |
| adrenaline_ | Why not? | 19:55 |
| sohail-ahmed | The configuration has to be manual since every body in my office access printer through my ip | 19:56 |
| adrenaline_ | so you have a static Ip at work then? | 19:56 |
| sohail-ahmed | yes I have | 19:56 |
| adrenaline_ | ok makes more sense | 19:56 |
| Artemis3 | well, i would say you need to learn dhcpd | 19:56 |
| Artemis3 | you can configure your dhcpd server to give you the same IP | 19:56 |
| Artemis3 | you can assign same IP to the specific mac address | 19:57 |
| adrenaline_ | You could do what Artemis3 mentioned and use the same network as your work meaning IP space then at home use the same static IP then when you are at work and home it will just work with no issues | 19:57 |
| sohail-ahmed | I cant get the same ip at home. | 19:58 |
| adrenaline_ | but if you go somewhere else you will not have a dhcp | 19:58 |
| sohail-ahmed | Since they are on diferent ISPS | 19:58 |
| adrenaline_ | you do not have an internal network at home? | 19:58 |
| sohail-ahmed | different gateways | 19:58 |
| sohail-ahmed | I do | 19:58 |
| adrenaline_ | then you control your own internal ip space | 19:58 |
| sohail-ahmed | all pcs connected to the router | 19:58 |
| adrenaline_ | gateway doesn't matter | 19:58 |
| adrenaline_ | then you can do it | 19:59 |
| adrenaline_ | what is the ipspace at your work? | 19:59 |
| sohail-ahmed | 192.168.9.* | 19:59 |
| adrenaline_ | perfect what is your ipspace at home | 19:59 |
| sohail-ahmed | 192.168.1.* | 19:59 |
| adrenaline_ | perfect | 19:59 |
| Artemis3 | thats too easy | 19:59 |
| Artemis3 | lol | 19:59 |
| adrenaline_ | at home change it to 192.168.9.* | 19:59 |
| adrenaline_ | then if your static at work is .13 then make that your static at home | 20:00 |
| sohail-ahmed | does it require changing things in router? | 20:00 |
| sohail-ahmed | home router | 20:00 |
| Artemis3 | yes, you cant? | 20:00 |
| adrenaline_ | only your internal dhcp pool | 20:00 |
| sohail-ahmed | I can | 20:00 |
| adrenaline_ | I mean your internal ip network | 20:00 |
| adrenaline_ | so in your router you will see your LAN at 192.168.1.* just change it to 192.168.9.* and you should be golden | 20:01 |
| adrenaline_ | You will only need to change your LAN settings and whatever you have static on your home network | 20:02 |
| sohail-ahmed | So I would start with changing my primary ip address, which is currectly 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.9. | 20:02 |
| sohail-ahmed | 1 | 20:02 |
| adrenaline_ | yes | 20:02 |
| adrenaline_ | you got it | 20:02 |
| adrenaline_ | then you will match your work | 20:02 |
| koegs | first change your routers address ;-) | 20:03 |
| adrenaline_ | 102.168 is not routable so you will be fine. I could even change my home network to that and will be fine | 20:03 |
| adrenaline_ | Yes remember it will take a reboot and you wont be able to access it with the old IP | 20:03 |
| sohail-ahmed | I know this. | 20:03 |
| adrenaline_ | make sense or did I confuse you? | 20:03 |
| sohail-ahmed | But is 't it strange that the thing that looks so simple with network manager needs much more without it. | 20:04 |
| sohail-ahmed | completly making sense. | 20:05 |
| adrenaline_ | Well you are actually making it harder than it has to be. I am just simplifying what you are trying to do | 20:05 |
| Artemis3 | i think you can also make alias in interfaces | 20:08 |
| Artemis3 | but you will still need to ipdown ifup things | 20:08 |
| sohail-ahmed | Yes I am back online after the achievement. | 20:19 |
| sohail-ahmed | Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. But I still think there has to be some other way, since I may not have access to my router and I know dhcp would be the answer in that case but again its not which shows much control. | 20:21 |
| xubuntu436 | hello xubuntu | 20:59 |
| baizon | hi | 20:59 |
| xubuntu801 | yo wassup! | 21:19 |
| xubuntu801 | I got a quick question regarding install | 21:19 |
| xubuntu801 | I don't see any loading/install progress bar. Just this intro window has popped up. | 21:19 |
| xubuntu801 | Should there be a progress bar? | 21:20 |
| baizon | xubuntu801: yes there should be | 21:20 |
| xubuntu801 | do you think maybe something went screwy?? | 21:21 |
| xubuntu801 | reboot and try reinstall | 21:21 |
| xubuntu801 | I think maybe playing with partitions caused it | 21:21 |
| xubuntu801 | I'll restart it. | 21:22 |
| xubuntu801 | Thanks Baizon | 21:22 |
| xubuntu978 | Install working this time | 21:33 |
| === xubuntu is now known as Guest68811 | ||
| Guest68811 | good evening folks | 22:42 |
| Guest68811 | i´ve upgraded to Xubuntu 14... when a tried to install ndiswrapper (in order to install my wireless drives) it returned a information that it couldn,t find a especific library... | 22:44 |
| Guest68811 | Could anyone help me with instructions in how to install my wireless drive (windows) in xubuntu 14? | 22:45 |
| fibz_ | 14 is unreleased, try in #ubuntu+1 | 22:45 |
| Guest68811 | thank you fibz_... | 22:46 |
| Guest68811 | would you recomend to a newbie return to version 13? | 22:46 |
| fibz_ | yes | 22:47 |
| Guest68811 | thanks again. | 22:47 |
| Guest68811 | best wishes... | 22:47 |
| Guest68811 | gone | 22:47 |
| astronouth7303 | I can't connect to the audio sink on my bluetooth headset. Blueman says: Connection Failed: Stream setup failed. I tried both solutions on http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2144841&page=2 and neither work. | 23:12 |
| astronouth7303 | pavucontrol doesn't see the device at all | 23:16 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: i would test the device on a supported OS, and make sure its working | 23:47 |
| astronouth7303 | it was working with my work computer (ubuntu LTS) | 23:48 |
| === FreezingAlt is now known as FreezingCold | ||
| holstein | astronouth7303: you mean, on 12.04, it was working, and on 13.10, its not? | 23:49 |
| astronouth7303 | yeah | 23:49 |
| astronouth7303 | unless there's other unity vs xfce stuff going on | 23:49 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: shouldnt be.. its all ubuntu | 23:50 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: its more likely the kernel version, or something you need to add to 13.10 here | 23:51 |
| holstein | !bluetooth | 23:51 |
| ubottu | For instructions on how to set up bluetooth, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BluetoothSetup | 23:51 |
| holstein | i always reference that ^ | 23:51 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: one thing i would want to know would be, is the bluetooth in the machine functioning.. i would use a live CD for the version at work that is working.. ubuntu 12.04 or whatever you say is surely suppported | 23:54 |
| astronouth7303 | bluetooth itself seems to work. it pairs, it can connect to the headset service | 23:54 |
| holstein | if the setup doesnt work with 12.04 as it does at work, then, its likely the bluetooth in the machine that is not working, or not suppoting linux | 23:54 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: sure.. and "seems" is not enough.. | 23:54 |
| holstein | astronouth7303: otherwise, i would be using pavucontrol as you are.. | 23:55 |
| astronouth7303 | i'll try that at some poitn | 23:56 |
| astronouth7303 | or dig out another dongle and see if that works | 23:56 |
| holstein | yeah, thats a good test as well | 23:56 |
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