[06:17] <knome> morning elfy
[06:17] <elfy> morning knome 
[08:32] <jhenke> morning folks
[08:33] <elfy> hi jhenke 
[10:03] <jhenke> elfy just out of curiosity, from which part of the world/time zone are you?
[10:04] <knome> UTC+0000
[10:05] <jhenke> UK?
[10:05] <knome> yep.
[10:07] <elfy> I did that without typing :p
[10:07] <jhenke> okay, working at cononical or just to uk based?
[10:07] <elfy> I drive a van for a living ;)
[10:08] <jhenke> okay
[10:16] <jhenke> too bad kernel 3.14 got released so late, I thought 14.04 might use it
[10:28] <ochosi> ahoj
[10:28] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[10:31] <lderan> hello :)
[10:31] <davmor2> elfy: I used to drive a Lorry for a Living :)
[10:31] <elfy> davmor2: :)
[10:32] <elfy> I used to wire planes for a living
[10:33] <elfy> didn't fly them though :p
[10:33] <lderan> still cool tho 
[10:36] <davmor2> jhenke: most canonical employees are not based in the uk
[10:36] <davmor2> jhenke: there are more in the americas and mainland europe
[10:37] <brainwash> elfy: bug 1299286
[10:38] <brainwash> comment #2
[10:38] <davmor2> elfy: I have delivered steel for a living then worked for a builder merchant then moved on to deliver gas bottles for them that was heavy work though
[10:38] <jhenke> davmor2 thanks, good to know, but I do not want to get too much into offtopic, now that so many people are alive here
[10:39] <davmor2> then my shoulder went and now I work on computers
[10:39] <davmor2> jhenke: they are all alive :P
[10:41] <brainwash> ochosi: hey, we need to fix the session wallpaper problem asap
[10:43] <bluesabre> catfish 1.0.2-2 accepted into unstable :)
[10:44] <brainwash> bluesabre: what's new?
[10:44] <bluesabre> Python3 instead of 2
[10:44] <bluesabre> https://bugs.launchpad.net/catfish-search/+bug/1280607
[10:44] <ochosi> brainwash: what session wallpaper problem?
[10:44] <brainwash> but doesn't this break the zeitgeist integration?
[10:45] <bluesabre> it does
[10:45] <bluesabre> but zeitgeist is only used for instant suggestions
[10:45] <bluesabre> and it was only in suggests, so never auto-pulled
[10:46] <brainwash> ok, I somehow doubt that anyone will complain about catfish not utilizing zeitgeit anymore :)
[10:47] <bluesabre> right
[10:47] <bluesabre> but yeah, which session wallpaper problem
[10:47] <bluesabre> and have we figured out the source of the problem?
[10:48]  * ochosi was away and doesn't even have a clue
[10:48] <brainwash> xfdesktop not picking the wallpaper which we define in our xfce4-desktop.xml (xubuntu-default-settings)
[10:48] <brainwash> so it falls back to the default Xfce one
[10:49] <brainwash> both wallpapers display a mouse in the centre... so no big deal, or? :D
[10:50] <bluesabre> is there a bug for this item?
[10:50] <ochosi> so what's the problem with the session?
[10:50] <bluesabre> session wallpaper is xfce wallpaper, not xubuntu one
[10:50] <jhenke> zeitgeist, what a stupid name for such a software (at least for German speakers)...
[10:50] <ochosi> jhenke: +1
[10:51] <ochosi> bluesabre: right, it sounded like it was a bug in xfce4-session. but afaik that one doesn't handle wallpapers
[10:51] <brainwash> zeitgeist is a well known term in the english language
[10:51] <brainwash> ochosi: it's xfdesktop
[10:51] <ochosi> yeah, even in english it's a bit misleading to what the service does though
[10:52] <ochosi> brainwash: have you debugged that a little already?
[10:52] <knome> brainwash, bug 1297170
[10:53] <knome> brainwash, bug 1284910 might be related as well
[10:53] <ochosi> i mean is it a simple bug in our x-d-s file?
[10:53] <knome> but might not
[10:53] <ochosi> (that should be easy to verify if you have a brand new setup, which i can't try right now)
[10:53] <brainwash> I've checked the code a bit and talked to eric, it should work fine according to him, if we switch back the 4.10 config style (xfce4-desktop.xml)
[10:54] <bluesabre> ah
[10:54] <brainwash> but the 4.10 config style does not work for me either
[10:54] <bluesabre> didn't ali1234 mention something like that
[10:54] <bluesabre> where we need to use the old config and let xfce upgrade it?
[10:54] <bluesabre> for something or another
[10:54] <brainwash> I guess so
[10:54] <brainwash> xfdesktop is able to migrate the config file
[10:55] <ochosi> that's odd though, why does providing a correct config file not work?
[10:55] <bluesabre> I'll look into it tonight if nobody beats me to it
[10:55] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[10:55] <ochosi> ttyl bluesabre 
[10:55] <jhenke> cu bluesabre
[10:56] <brainwash> it isn't correct, we define "monitor0", but in most cases xfdesktop will use and lock for the actual monitor name like "monitor-HDMI12454"
[10:56] <brainwash> and therefore create a new entry in the user config file
[10:56] <ochosi> ah, i see
[10:57] <brainwash> the old config style should work, but it does not for me
[10:57] <eric_the_idiot> do you have a link to the old file?
[10:57] <brainwash> eric_the_idiot: hello :D
[10:57] <eric_the_idiot> hi
[10:58] <ochosi> you mean the old config file?
[10:58] <brainwash> https://code.launchpad.net/~ochosi/xubuntu-default-settings/xfdesktop_background
[10:59] <ochosi> yup, that's the change of config basically
[10:59] <brainwash> so we've added the "workspace" property
[11:00] <bluesabre> https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-default-settings/trunk/view/head:/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-desktop.xml
[11:09] <ochosi> andrzejr_,ali1234: fwiw, the gtk3 app-indicators are resized correctly now in xfce (no cut edges anymore with e.g. the skype icon)
[11:10] <ochosi> knome: but isn't that second bug you linked to a direct problem in ubiquity?
[11:10] <ochosi> i mean bug 1284910
[11:10] <ochosi> as ubiquity draws the wallpaper itself
[11:10] <ochosi> and the file is there
[11:11] <brainwash> bad luck, we fail to display the correct wallpaper in two different apps :D
[11:14] <ochosi> not sure whether that's really us
[11:14] <ochosi> the ubiquity issue i really don't understand at all
[11:14] <ochosi> i hope that xnox or someone more involved with ubiquity will be able to shed some light...
[11:21] <eric_the_idiot> So I changed the perchannel-xml file to the 4.10 thing, killed xfdesktop, reset/deleted all the xfconf properties, restarted and it worked.
[11:21] <eric_the_idiot> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7184369/ is the logs from xfdesktop with --enable-debug=full
[11:26] <brainwash> eric_the_idiot: I'll test it again
[12:03] <brainwash> eric_the_idiot: http://lpaste.net/102056
[12:05] <brainwash> oh
[12:05] <brainwash> image-path vs. image-last
[12:06] <brainwash> ochosi: can you revert the x-d-s change?
[12:10] <ochosi> brainwash: i suggest you do a merge-request based on your findings that reverts the current version to one that works
[12:11] <ochosi> i still can't push to xubuntu-default-settings, so it doesn't make any sense if you describe your changes and then i do the MR (it's just more work that way)
[12:12] <brainwash> ochosi: can I remove the branches from bug 1271713 ?
[12:12] <brainwash> the problem has been fixed in xfdesktop 4.11.4
[12:22] <ochosi> brainwash: yup, feel free to unlink those
[12:23] <brainwash> ochosi: ok :)
[13:15] <ochosi> brainwash: don't forget to do the merge-request for your branch
[13:22] <brainwash> ochosi: done
[13:22] <brainwash> ochosi: bug 1296992
[13:23] <brainwash> I guess we should fix this too
[13:24] <brainwash> or if not, close the report
[13:24] <ochosi> huhu, mr_pouit is reporting bugs now instead of fixing them :)
[13:25] <elfy> :)
[13:26] <ochosi> quite ballsy, being one of the two ppl who can actually push to xubuntu-default-settings
[13:26] <knome> better than nothing, eh?
[13:26] <ochosi> sure
[13:27] <ochosi> brainwash: i'm a bit too busy with other things this week, i can't really take on additional bugreports
[13:27] <ochosi> if you can look into it, that'd be great
[13:27] <brainwash> so it is a problem we want to fix?
[13:29] <ochosi> well i don't consider it a huge problem
[13:29] <ochosi> it only affects those that are already on 14.04
[13:29] <ochosi> at least if i understood it correctly
[13:30] <brainwash> yes
[13:40] <brainwash> ochosi: mmh, micahg should know how to do it properly
[13:57] <ochosi> light-locker* got sponsored
[14:25] <brainwash> eric_the_idiot: do you plan to release xfdesktop 4.11.5 soon? would be great if we could ship a version without all the additional patches from git/master :)
[15:05] <brainwash> knome: can you please comment on bug 1299286 ?
[15:05] <brainwash> the reporter requests a change in the documentation
[15:06] <brainwash> (comment #2)
[15:48] <lenny> Hello! I'm trying out the 14.04 beta, is there a reason why the icons on the upper left corner is so large?
[15:54] <brainwash> lenny: hi there, which icons exactly?
[15:54] <lenny> brainwash, if you choose to have the numix look
[15:55] <lenny> settings -> window manager -> numix
[15:55] <brainwash> the new default size for desktop icons is or will be 48px
[15:56] <brainwash> so you mean the icons in the window decoration?
[15:56] <lenny> Is it because I have a low resolution  screen then?
[15:56] <lenny> brainwash, yes
[15:56] <brainwash> not sure, can you upload a screenshot?
[15:57] <lenny> sure, sec
[15:57] <brainwash> ochosi might have an explanation 
[15:58] <lenny> http://i.imgur.com/0eaPLSc.png
[15:59] <brainwash> oh, that is indeed rather big
[16:03] <brainwash> lenny: you could file a bug report against "shimmer-themes"
[16:04] <brainwash> and/or wait until ochosi returns
[16:04] <lenny> on launch-pad?
[16:07] <brainwash> yes, or directly here https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix
[16:14] <lenny> k, filed it at github
[16:15] <lenny> Another question, what was the name of the old menu (the one replaced with whisker-menu)?
[16:15] <brainwash> lenny: thanks :)
[16:15] <brainwash> application menu
[16:18] <knome> brainwash, looks like something we could mention on the release notes, but wouldn't want to push for a docs change in 14.04; 14.04.1 is different again
[16:20] <knome> brainwash, updated the bug.
[16:20] <knome> not sure if it's a bug in -meta at all..
[16:20] <knome> bbl
[16:20] <brainwash> knome: thanks, I assume that this only affects very few people anyway
[16:25] <brainwash> ali1234: bug 1300277
[16:25] <brainwash> you've created an upstream report some time ago, it does address this issue, correct?
[17:38] <jhenke> whoever asked earlier, xfdesktop 4.11.5 got released
[18:45] <ali1234> brainwash: yes
[19:05] <Noskcaj> So the day my xfdesktop git-patches branch gets accepted, 4.11.5 comes out anyway
[19:06] <ochosi> Noskcaj: sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you...
[19:07] <ochosi> have the patches been sponsored/uploaded yet?
[19:07] <Noskcaj> yep
[19:09] <brainwash> Noskcaj: :D
[19:10] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, You didn't need to make catfish a "team upload". Your a maintainer of it
[19:10] <Noskcaj> *you're
[19:15] <brainwash> without upload/merge rights everything seems so sloooow
[19:17] <Noskcaj> brainwash, But syncing catfish worked, so i'm happy
[19:17] <brainwash> hooray :)
[19:21] <brainwash> Noskcaj: btw, I've just attached the patch files to the abiword reports, did not want to bother with properly packaging it
[19:22] <Noskcaj> I can try and package it. but i think you should learn how to
[19:22] <brainwash> yeah, but I would prefer a new debian release
[19:23] <brainwash> because there are more fixes for the stable branch
[19:23] <Noskcaj> Then email the maintainer, a lot
[19:25] <brainwash> but I don't do debian, so far I've only reported 1 bug to the debian guys
[19:27] <brainwash> maybe I should stop avoiding debian
[19:31] <Noskcaj> can't hurt
[19:32] <lenny> brainwash: I switched my desktop from debian to 14.04 today :D
[19:32] <brainwash> lenny: why that?
[19:34] <lenny> A couple of reasons, 1. DPM for my radeon card still didn't work with the 3.13 kernel and I was tiered of the fans running at full speed. So if I forfeit my freedom why bother. 2. Other small issues like sometimes freezing at the login screen and other small annoyances
[19:35] <Justanick> Hello, is it useful, that an upgrade from the last LTS did not remove the 
[19:35] <Justanick> linux-image-generic-lts-quantal
[19:36] <Justanick> linux-headers-generic-lts-quantal
[19:36] <Justanick> packages?
[19:39] <Justanick> Also the new gcc is not added to update-alternatives
[19:39] <Justanick> Still showing the old gcc 4.6
[19:41] <brainwash> lenny: ah ok
[19:42] <brainwash> Justanick: ask in #ubuntu-devel about the leftover kernel files
[19:42] <brainwash> and gcc too :)
[19:43] <Justanick> brainwash: I will do it now. ;)
[19:50] <lenny> by the way, brainwash, they were fast to respond on the github page :) https://github.com/shimmerproject/Numix/issues/115
[19:50] <lenny> thanks for the tip
[19:51] <brainwash> oh wow, that was very fast indeed
[19:52] <brainwash> but a possible fix might not land in 14.04
[19:54] <lenny> :'(
[19:55] <brainwash> you will to file a launchpad report against shimmer-themes and hope that the fix finds its way into 14.04
[19:55] <brainwash> other than that, just use the git version :)
[20:05] <lenny> Can you guide me through filing a launchpad report? I've just made an account
[20:06] <elfy> lenny: for shimmer-themes do ubuntu-bug shimmer-themes in a terminal
[20:08] <lenny> elfy: thanks
[20:12] <lenny> Does this contain enough information? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/shimmer-themes/+bug/1300422
[20:17] <brainwash> lenny: should be enough, but the bug report title is a bit vague :)
[20:20] <elfy> not that it matters much given the link to the issue on shimmerprojects :)
[20:20] <brainwash> :P
[20:26] <lenny> what themes do you guys use?
[20:27] <elfy> I just use what is default mostly
[20:30] <ali1234> i use orion
[20:32] <jhenke> Intially I used Greybird, but recently prefering Albatross and sometimes Bluebird
[20:32] <jhenke> the nice thing is that Xubuntu really comes with several nice themes and changing is easy
[20:33] <jhenke> so I sometimes change after some days, keeping the experience fresh
[20:36] <jhenke> good night
[20:36] <lenny> good night jhenke 
[20:40] <brainwash> can anyone confirm this? 1. create a new folder and a new file on the desktop 2. move the file into the folder 3. file icon glitches
[20:41] <elfy> I installed 13.10 to look at that - couldn't confirm it 
[20:41] <elfy> meant to go and leave a note 
[20:41] <brainwash> 13.10?
[20:42] <brainwash> I'm confused
[20:42] <elfy> yea - I assume you're talking about bug 1300398
[20:42] <brainwash> no
[20:42] <brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10785
[20:42] <elfy> hang on I'll check now
[20:43] <elfy> dragging it into the folder?
[20:43] <brainwash> yes
[20:43] <brainwash> so that the file should vanish from the desktop
[20:43] <elfy> I can only ever get that to copy not move :)
[20:44] <brainwash> so it's still there?
[20:44] <brainwash> on the desktop
[20:44] <elfy> mmm 
[20:44] <elfy> can't even get it to do that now ... 
[20:44] <brainwash> describe what you see :D
[20:45] <elfy> aaaah 
[20:45] <elfy> ok - got the file icon on the desktop - open thunar and go look - not there :)
[20:46] <elfy> and this time with a new folder and new file it moved it 
[20:46] <brainwash> very odd
[20:47] <elfy> but I've been seeing that for an age - just assumed it was copying and not moving :)
[20:48] <elfy> commenting in the bug
[20:49] <brainwash> aaaah, so you opened ~/Desktop in thunar?
[20:49] <elfy> as well
[20:49] <brainwash> and the file was not there, but still visible on the desktop?
[20:49] <elfy> to see what was going on - but I didn't actually do anything in thunar
[20:49] <elfy> yep
[20:49] <brainwash> great
[20:50] <elfy> I'll get a screenie if you want 
[20:50] <brainwash> and if you try to delete the file on the desktop, it will tell you that it cannot find the file anymore
[20:50]  * pleia2 did think it was odd that gema wouldn't just submit a bug
[20:53] <elfy> sigh
[20:54] <brainwash> thanks for commenting
[20:54] <elfy> I didn't - I attached the screenie and it lost the comment :|
[20:54] <brainwash> oh
[20:55] <brainwash> one picture is worth ten thousand words
[20:56] <elfy> commented this time :)
[20:56] <elfy> brainwash: and I had purged your ppa - so am back to standard
[20:57] <brainwash> so the system freeze is back?
[20:58] <elfy> yea - but I know that it's fixable now - so it doesn't annoy me as much :)
[20:58] <brainwash> nice
[20:58] <elfy> it'll turn up eventually :)
[20:59] <Justanick> Is there an option to limit tumbler to ~20% of cpu usage or anything similar?
[21:00] <Justanick> Create a copy of ~15.000 objects pushed the cpu heavily to its limit.
[21:01] <ali1234> there will be when we get systemd
[21:01] <brainwash> don't let it crash, we got enough tumbler crash report already :P
[21:01] <ali1234> right now you would have to set up all the necessary cgroups stuff manually
[21:03] <Justanick> Maybe something for a rainy day.
[21:04] <elfy> brainwash: and a desktop reload loses the orphan icon
[21:04] <brainwash> elfy: indeed
[21:05] <Justanick> But so far, the runtime on battery seems to be a lot better than on the old LTS version. Thanks!
[21:06] <elfy> well - had enough of monday - cya tomorrow :)
[21:08] <ochosi> lenny: as brainwash said, not sure we can land that in trusty
[21:08] <ochosi> at least not in the release iso, maybe in .1
[21:12] <ochosi> i wonder how the ibus issue is going...
[21:14] <brainwash> prepare for major uproar after final release xD
[21:14] <lenny> ochosi: Okay, thanks for being so responsive :)
[21:14] <ochosi> btw, did you see that larsu updated indicator-sound so that the hover-effect is back on all buttons
[21:14] <brainwash> on all buttons?
[21:14] <ochosi> lenny: sure no problem. took a while of digging around, but after i had figured it out it wasn't hard to fix
[21:14] <ochosi> brainwash: yes, also prev and next
[21:15] <brainwash> aaah
[21:15] <brainwash> oh nice
[21:15] <ochosi> yup
[21:15] <ochosi> you
[21:15] <ochosi> your patch is paying off now
[21:17] <brainwash> got a bit bored and created https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/tooltip-size
[21:18] <brainwash> or am I the only one who dislikes these big desktop tooltips?
[21:20] <brainwash> maybe I should bother eric with it :D
[21:27] <ochosi> i dunno, i don't think that's really important
[21:28] <ochosi> my main argument would be that of those large icons we're missing quite a bunch e.g. in mimes
[21:28] <ochosi> so it would make sense to go down to 64px
[21:37] <ochosi> brainwash: but yeah, i guess the point here is not to let you get bored..
[21:48] <brainwash> ochosi: exactly, now is the fun time
[21:49] <brainwash> getting 14.04 into good shape
[22:09] <ochosi> brainwash: well there are a semi-critical few issues i think we need to get fixed
[22:10] <ochosi> "few" <-> "semi-critical"
[22:36] <ochosi> updated the draft for the locking article on x.org, in case anyone wants to proofread
[22:55] <Unit193> Also, for Unicorn we should s/xchat/hexchat/
[23:56] <starrats> that sounds cool both irc chat apps