[06:35] <jhenke> hi folks
[07:38] <ochosi> morning
[09:11] <starrats> good morning everyone
[09:11] <Adam_T> howdy!
[09:14] <starrats> morning Adam_T
[09:14] <jhenke> good morning
[09:17] <starrats> good morning jhenke
[09:19] <starrats> almost thought I had a 'bug' to complain about this morning from last night's update/upgrade but this morning's update/upgrade went as smooth as silk
[10:31] <starrats> Is Liberoffice ready for download/install on 14.04, a couple folks I know on FB are having some problems with it and I was going to install it on mine but haven't yet?
[12:03] <elfy> starrats: I've been using libreoffice on trusty since I installed it in Oct/Nov last year
[12:46] <starrats> ah okay elfy
[15:38] <elfy> seem to have a whole bunch of kde packages kicking about suddenly
[15:43] <jhenke> kde? where does those come from?
[15:43] <elfy> no idea - but I've just removed a bunch of packages and appear to have no wallpaper now 
[15:45] <ochosi> maybe you removed xfdesktop? :)
[15:45] <elfy> nope
[15:47] <elfy> first - I'm not sure where the kde stuff appeared from - but that could be explainable :p
[15:48] <elfy> there was an upgrade to xfdesktop to 4.11.5-0ubuntu1
[15:50] <brainwash_> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10788
[15:52] <elfy> http://pastebin.com/BLxyhM78 can't see anything odd in there - odd why they are on here
[15:53] <brainwash_> dunno
[15:54] <brainwash_> it's still the same issue (wallpaper disappears)
[15:54] <elfy> could have been clementine
[15:56] <elfy> ubiquity-frontend-kde
[15:57] <elfy> coincidence then :)
[15:58] <elfy> brainwash_: I didn't change themes - I was just doing stuff in synaptic
[15:58] <elfy> though the kill works
[15:59] <brainwash_> this was my initial bug title, it can also disappear on other occasions
[16:00] <elfy> aah ok :)
[16:06] <brainwash_> sadly I didn't notice this before :/
[16:06] <elfy> well it's a new one on me as well ;)
[16:07] <brainwash_> yeah, but you do not test the upstream changes :)
[16:19] <lenny> elfy: I'm an ex-clementine user, try quodlibet ;)
[16:20] <elfy> lenny: tried that ... 
[16:20] <elfy> tried everything ... 
[16:21] <lenny> but?
[16:21] <elfy> clementine is as close as I can get to how I want it to work - so I stick with it :)
[16:21] <lenny> :) sound decision
[16:22] <ochosi> brainwash_, elfy: yeah, can confirm that bug with the wallpaper disappearing straight on the xfdesktop upgrade
[16:23] <ochosi> (killing xfdesktop once brings it back though)
[16:24] <elfy> good - I thought I'd broken it - really don't want to have to redo this install till we've released 
[16:24] <elfy> :)
[16:50] <brainwash_> unlucky, we fix a regression and a new bug appears :/
[16:51] <elfy> could be worse ... we could have fixed ibus ;)
[16:52] <brainwash_> ibus will be the new broken indicator-sound (13.10)
[16:52] <ochosi> well then fix it :)
[16:52] <brainwash_> impossible
[16:53] <brainwash_> that's the dark side
[16:53] <elfy> no it won't be - if it doesn't get fixed then we'll not ship it 
[16:53] <brainwash_> you need to be magician to understand this stuff
[16:54] <brainwash_> I'll focus on the xfce related issues
[16:54] <brainwash_> like bug 1292290
[16:55] <lenny> works on my machine (tm)
[16:55] <brainwash_> what works?
[16:55] <lenny> keybindings
[16:55] <brainwash_> did you change any?
[16:55] <lenny> yes
[16:56] <brainwash_> like?
[16:56] <lenny> mod enter for terminal
[16:56] <brainwash_> no, we are talking about window manager keybindings
[16:56] <brainwash_> like "switch to workspace 1"
[16:57] <lenny> oh, sorry then :)
[16:57] <brainwash_> or "maximize window"
[17:39] <brainwash_> elfy: xfdesktop 4.11.5 + patches for the new bugs (moving files, disappearing wallpaper)
[17:39] <brainwash_> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
[17:47] <brainwash_> looking forward to tell noskcaj to prepare yet another xfdesktop4 upload :)
[18:34] <elfy> brainwash_: that appears to work for the file issue - no idea about the desktop, don't know how to create the issue :)
[18:45] <brainwash_> elfy: simply change the gtk theme
[18:45] <brainwash_> settings manager > appearance 
[18:45] <elfy> oh well - I'e purged it now 
[18:46] <brainwash_> great, now you can see if the patch works
[18:46] <brainwash_> before and after
[18:46] <elfy> can't do that 
[18:46] <elfy> it's Wednesday
[18:47] <elfy> mmm 
[18:47] <elfy> settings - appearance - fiddling with those doesn't do anything unexpected ... 
[18:48] <brainwash_> did you purge and restart xfdesktop?
[18:48] <elfy> oh - not sure when I rebooted 
[18:49] <elfy> ok - cool - that's got it 
[18:49] <brainwash_> wallpaper gone?
[18:49] <elfy> yep
[18:50] <elfy> ok - that works too then
[18:50] <brainwash_> also uploaded xfce4-power-manager, it should now sync the power-manager and session setting for "lock screen on suspend"
[18:50] <brainwash_> settings manager > session and startup > advanced
[18:50] <brainwash_> I think
[18:50] <brainwash_> and the power-manager one
[18:51] <elfy> lock screen before sleep?
[18:51] <brainwash_> yes
[18:51] <brainwash_> we have two settings for it
[18:51] <brainwash_> not counting light-locker-settings
[18:52] <brainwash_> oh man, so much to test =S
[18:52] <elfy> ok - they sync
[18:53] <elfy> what's the xfwm4 in there for?
[18:53] <brainwash_> to hide the unused maximize button for dialog windows
[18:53] <brainwash_> check the PPA description for links to the bug reports
[18:55] <elfy> bug is just rabbiting on about ubiquity
[18:56] <elfy> ok - maximise is missing from update search index in catfish
[18:56] <brainwash_> ubiquity uses xfwm4 to render window decorations I guess
[18:57] <brainwash_> but all dialog windows in Xfce are affected
[18:57] <elfy> some are still there - but work 
[18:57] <brainwash_> well, windows which are not meant to be resizable, but still show the maximize button
[18:57] <elfy> yea
[18:57] <elfy> purging now 
[18:58] <brainwash_> now re-install xfdesktop from my ppa :D
[18:58] <brainwash_> restart it and change the gtk theme
[18:58] <elfy> did you see what I just typed
[18:59] <elfy> oh I've done that - that worked
[18:59] <brainwash_> so quick?
[18:59] <brainwash_> so the wallpaper does not disappear anymore with the patch?
[18:59] <elfy> nope 
[18:59] <brainwash_> great
[19:00] <elfy> mmm
[19:00] <brainwash_> o.o
[19:00] <brainwash_> I did not test it yet
[19:01] <elfy> just rechecking something
[19:01] <brainwash_> watching soccer atm
[19:03] <ochosi> brainwash_: just tested xfpm patch from your ppa
[19:03] <elfy> yep - rechecked that - appears to work
[19:03] <ochosi> seems like the sync doesn't always work both ways, at least with both dialogs open changing it in session doesn't do anything in xfpm
[19:04] <ochosi> the other way round (xfpm > session) works perfectly
[19:04] <brainwash_> don't open both dialogs :)
[19:04] <brainwash_> elfy: thanks for testing
[19:05] <ochosi> well we want a two-way sync
[19:05] <ochosi> and actually the patch *should* do that
[19:05] <ochosi> maybe just the dialog doesn't update
[19:05] <ochosi> i guess i'll monitor xfconf...
[19:05] <brainwash_> possibly
[19:06] <brainwash_> ochosi: should we add the lp report to -bugs
[19:07] <brainwash_> bug 1101982
[19:08] <brainwash_> it's even marked as security issue
[19:08] <ochosi> added
[19:08] <brainwash_> ok
[19:09] <ochosi> if i have time i'll look at the monitoring code later
[19:09] <ochosi> but actually it should work automagically unless it monitors the wrong channel
[19:12] <ochosi> hmmm
[19:13] <ochosi> brainwash_: if i patch this github version, what's easiest for you to update the PPA with? a git patch? or want me to push the cloned thing into a separate repo?
[19:13] <elfy> ochosi: is anything going to be happening with lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings in trusty - other than a ppa?
[19:14] <ochosi> elfy: there is already a request to get it uploaded, so it'll be installable
[19:14] <ochosi> but we didn't go for installing it by default in xubuntu
[19:14] <ochosi> it simply seemed too late in the cycle
[19:14] <elfy> ok - cool, it's the last ppa I have here
[19:14] <elfy> yep - understood :)
[19:15] <elfy> all these new -settings things - easy for me to confuse myself :p
[19:16] <brainwash_> ochosi: git patch should be fine
[19:25] <ochosi> elfy: yeah, agreed
[19:25] <ochosi> brainwash_: btw, it might be worth to wait for xfdesktop4.11.6
[19:27] <brainwash_> maybe
[19:27] <brainwash_> but we need the wallpaper fix now
[19:27] <brainwash_> otherwise people will start to whine
[19:27] <ochosi> no, we need it in the release
[19:27] <brainwash_> rc
[19:29] <brainwash_> is there a limit for uploads of the same package? :D
[19:29] <brainwash_> maybe limited by noskcaj's nerves =S
[19:30] <ochosi> and by the sponsors' nerves/time
[19:31] <brainwash_> it's always so stressful without an active uploader
[19:32] <elfy> it might possibly be better to not overdo the same package :p
[19:33] <ochosi> yeah, that's why i would avoid another scenario where we first upload git fixes/patches and a day later there's a proper release
[19:33] <brainwash_> want to create a lp report?
[19:33] <ochosi> ok, so the monitoring in xfpm works
[19:33] <ochosi> just something in the setting of that xfconf property doesn't
[19:34] <brainwash_> well, someone will create a report for the new wallpaper problem anyway
[19:34] <brainwash_> ochosi: so it works now properly?
[19:34] <ochosi> 21:33  ochosi$ just something in the setting of that xfconf property doesn't
[19:34] <brainwash_> ah, so no patch yet
[19:35] <brainwash_> just observations :)
[20:23] <Noskcaj_> brainwash_, Are there any particular fixes that need packaging currently?
[20:25] <brainwash_> Noskcaj_: not yet I guess
[20:26] <Noskcaj_> ok. I'll try and get that xfwm4 fix packaged sometime soon though
[20:26] <brainwash_> but we got some patches
[20:26] <brainwash_> well, it's not tested widely yet
[20:26] <ochosi> Noskcaj_: well unless you wanna potentially run into that xfdesktop scenario again... ;)
[20:27] <brainwash_> also got a patch for bug 1271861
[20:27] <Noskcaj_> ochosi, good point. I probably have to merge xfdesktop from debian too
[20:27] <brainwash_> and lets not forget about abiword :)
[20:28] <Noskcaj_> gulp
[20:28] <Noskcaj_> That's the one i'm, worried about working on.
[20:29] <Unit193> brainwash_: Did you test my garcon yet?
[20:29] <brainwash_> ah, no
[20:29] <brainwash_> did not activate the PPA yet
[20:30] <brainwash_> but I've already added the classic app menu :)
[20:31] <brainwash_> Unit193: do we have a lp report for this issue?
[20:32] <jhenke> good night folks
[20:34] <Unit193> brainwash_: I use the classic menu as well, this fixes it.
[20:34] <ochosi> night jhenke 
[20:35] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, that one is a pretty obvious fix for a shortcoming in garcon
[20:35] <Unit193> But testing before upload might be nice.
[20:35] <ochosi> sure
[20:35] <ochosi> didn't mean we shouldn't
[20:35] <ochosi> i guess that means i also should test that one
[20:36] <elfy> I'm all for not testing anything at all ever :p
[20:36] <ochosi> btw, does xfpm<->session sync work for anyone both ways and am i the only one it's only working one-way for?
[20:36] <ochosi> (just so that i know, cause the code seems fine from what i can tell and the signal gets caught when the property gets changed in session)
[20:36] <elfy> ochosi: I'll test it again now 
[20:37] <ochosi> Unit193: could you link me to your ppa with garcon again?
[20:40] <Noskcaj_> It seems there's duplication of settings from xfpm to light-locker-settings for when the monitor turns off
[20:40] <Noskcaj_> This could be an issue
[20:40] <elfy> ochosi: if I set lock in power manager it syncs to adv in sessions, changing it then in sessions does NOT sync to power manager - unless I happen to have another instance of settings manager open
[20:40] <ochosi> Noskcaj_: this is what we're looking at. there are 3 settings that need to be kept in sync (xfpm, session and lls)
[20:41] <Noskcaj_> That's a worry
[20:41] <ochosi> elfy: yup, that's what i'm seeing
[20:41] <elfy> ochosi: ok 
[20:41] <ochosi> so that part where the setting gets applied needs a touch
[20:41] <ochosi> Noskcaj_: not really, we're working on it. bugs that are not being worked on are a worry ;)
[20:42] <Noskcaj_> :)
[20:50] <Unit193> ochosi: ppa:unit193/xfce
[20:51] <Unit193> (That's also the one with xfwm though.)
[20:53] <ochosi> Unit193: yeah, just realized i had already added it :)
[20:53] <ochosi> anyhoo, as expected it works nicely
[20:54] <ochosi> haven't found any apps it doesn't work with
[20:54] <Unit193> Worked for everything on me as well.
[20:57] <ochosi> brainwash_: thunar open-with patch seems to work
[20:57] <elfy> night all
[20:58] <Unit193> Next time you see Noskcaj, you can ping him for the garcon upload. (My packaging while working is a bit fudged.)
[20:58] <brainwash_> also shows the execute icon for executable files
[20:58] <ochosi> Unit193: do we have a bugreport for that and if so, is it linked to xubuntu-t-bugs?
[20:59] <Unit193> ochosi: Xfce bug.
[20:59] <ochosi> yeah, but we need a bugreport on lp too
[21:00] <ochosi> or at least i'd consider that more transparent
[21:00] <brainwash_> maybe no one noticed yet, because we switched to whisker
[21:00] <ochosi> bbiab
[21:02] <Unit193> brainwash_: Affects whisker too, IIRC.
[21:02] <brainwash_> I doubt that
[21:05] <Unit193> ochosi uses whisker, so I'd think he'd only see it if it's also in whisker.  If whisker uses garcon, then yes, and it does build-dep on garcon...
[21:07] <brainwash_> i did not notice any missing icons in whisker
[21:08] <brainwash_> and I have tons of installed apps
[21:20] <ochosi> i think whisker uses its own way of gathering icons
[21:20] <ochosi> either that or it uses the old garcon way
[21:20] <ochosi> (which is still there)
[21:21] <Unit193> Alright, I'm wrong, time to take me out back. :(
[21:23] <ochosi> either way, we should try to get the patch in trusty
[21:23] <ochosi> even if that means more delta
[21:24] <brainwash_> it has to work properly
[21:25] <brainwash_> so better fix it than listen to people's complains
[21:31] <brainwash_> ochosi: btw enabling MONITOR_ROOT_PIXMAP did not seem to cause any trouble yet
[21:32] <brainwash_> on a large scale :)
[21:32] <ochosi> how many testers do we have on that one?
[21:32] <ochosi> or is that already included as a patch?
[21:32] <brainwash_> already included
[21:32] <brainwash_> since 2014-03-09
[21:33] <Unit193> ochosi: And the problem I have still exists after disableing that (though may not be as bad.)
[21:33] <brainwash_> well, not included, it's a compile flag
[21:34] <brainwash_> Unit193: wait what?
[21:34] <brainwash_> or are you talking about something else?
[21:54] <ochosi> pleia2: while you're around, if you happen to have some spare time/energy, feel free to look at the article on locking i wrote for xubuntu.org, just to see whether it's all understandable and makes sense
[21:54] <brainwash_> Unit193: garcon patch works for me
[21:54] <pleia2> ochosi: sneaky
[21:54] <pleia2> ochosi: I can look in about an hour, just about to hop on a call
[21:55] <ochosi> pleia2: hehe. sure, there's absolutely no rush, you can also do this tomorrow or another day ;)
[21:58] <brainwash_> where can I find the article?
[22:04] <Unit193> brainwash_: I have problems with newer xfwm, disable the root pixmap and they are slightly less, but still there.
[22:04] <brainwash_> less what?
[22:05] <brainwash_> screen flicker?
[22:05] <brainwash_> or artifacts
[22:05] <Unit193> Slightly less apparent.
[22:05] <Unit193> Right, well...
[22:06] <Unit193> Artifacts, but more like puzzle pieces from previous screens.
[22:07] <ochosi> brainwash_: you need to be in the xubuntu web team or have access to the xubuntu.org website
[22:07] <ochosi> i guess i can send it to you plaintext though
[22:08] <brainwash_> secret documents? :)
[22:08] <ochosi> nah, that's just the normal process, you write stuff up in wordpress
[22:08] <ochosi> then someone from the team reviews, then you hit publish
[22:08] <Unit193> Did you "fix" all the comments I had on it?
[22:09] <ochosi> i think so, yes
[22:09] <brainwash_> makes me wonder, why do we need such an article?
[22:11] <brainwash_> I mean, do we have to explain something which does not work properly yet?
[22:11] <brainwash_> or something which is not obvious
[22:15] <ochosi> brainwash_: ygm
[22:17] <brainwash_> did you mail me a book?
[22:17] <brainwash_> that's a long article
[22:18] <brainwash_> but I like it so far
[22:19] <brainwash_> people will start asking questions.. and now we can point them to this article
[22:20] <ochosi> that's the idea
[22:25] <brainwash_> "our vision" :)
[22:26] <brainwash_> but damn, this article is really too long
[22:26] <brainwash_> most people on the internets won't read the whole thing :(
[22:27] <brainwash_> but I like it, good job
[22:27] <ochosi> thanks
[22:27] <ochosi> not sure i care about whether ppl will read it fully when i post it
[22:27] <ochosi> but i wanna have a single page we can send ppl to
[22:28] <ochosi> and i expect this change to generate some attention/questions
[22:29] <brainwash_> a lot
[22:31] <brainwash_> any plans for a short article about the workspace switcher removal (default setup)?
[22:46] <ochosi> nope, feel free to write one
[23:11] <ochosi> what kind of stuff do we ship that still needs gst0.10?
[23:16] <ochosi> Unit193: wanna merge a few more xfwm4 branches in for your PPA?
[23:16] <ochosi> i'm specifically thinking of the headerbar patch