=== slacker_1l is now known as slacker_nl [18:10] pleia2 and GunnarHj, e-mail sent regarding the meetings. [18:10] belkinsa: Saw that. Excellent! [18:10] belkinsa, thanks [18:10] Not a problem. [18:11] belkinsa, can you elaborate on why you think we need a council, and what would it "guide" ? [18:11] belkinsa: Same question here. :) What exactly do you mean by council? [18:12] Yeah, I had to leave and never finished that thought. What I meant by that was that if we had a council (like the Community) then maybe it would help us to get things done and maybe guide us by meetings and voting in those meetings. [18:13] who would be in that council? [18:13] Ubuntu Members of this team, elected though. [18:13] I feel like there is no governing part of this team. [18:14] how would anybody in that group suddenly dedicate more of their time if they were in a council? [18:14] oh no more coucncils please [18:14] Good point. [18:15] pleia2, yeah, to me it looks like pleia2 would be one member in that, and possibly even the chair.. ;) [18:15] knome: you're so funny :) [18:16] and I see you a part of it too, knome. [18:16] always! [18:16] yeah, and i don't fancy that image... [18:16] belkinsa: I think the need of some kind of firm leadership is greater in the sub teams - desktop, server, wiki... [18:16] if we want to do something, that would be to try to clearly specify the different areas where work is needed [18:16] and then try to describe those [18:17] and as GunnarHj said, then try to get leadership to those [18:17] it's easier to commit to leadership of just the wiki team than the whole ubuntu documentation team... [18:17] or even a part of the wiki team; like the PopularPages project proves us [18:17] knome, that can work. And maybe is needed. [18:18] belkinsa: In any case we have some things to talk about on those meetings. :) [18:18] yup [18:20] Maybe, like what whoever said about a Champion at the meeting, could be the chair for that part of the meeting if the meeting could be split in three sections and the items for each are sub-sections. [18:21] belkinsa: Something worth considering. [18:21] Bah, it's time for me to go back home. At least you guys have food for thought from me. ;) [18:21] belkinsa: Just a detail: We need those Champions first. :) [22:18] pleia2, GunnarHj: I'm sorry I missed today's CC meeting. I had it on my calendar, but was looking at the wrong time zone. [22:19] hehe, oops [22:19] it went well anyway :) [22:21] pleia2: I'm reading the logs now. [22:21] Indeed, it has and it gave me more ideas for the team. [22:22] godbyk: pleia2 summarized one of the things we talked about in the second para at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2014-April/018834.html [22:23] godbyk: plus regular meetings [22:23] And I think you should be the driver for the desktop docs. [22:23] Since you are very active in that part of the team. [22:23] I think having regular meetings would be very helpful. [22:23] The manual project has had cycles with and without regular meetings, and anecdotally, I think the cycles with regular meetings went smoother. [22:24] You know what's funny...I suggested that last year and no one wanted to do them. [22:24] If nothing else, the meetings served as a reminder that there's work to do. :) [22:24] Yes, and I think that's the aim of them. [22:24] It works for Ubuntu Women and it should work here. [22:25] It's a bit tricky to schedule them sometimes, given how we're spread across a bunch of time zones. [22:25] Right. [22:25] belkinsa: we've come a long way in this past year, it's nice that we can now focus on processes and things like meetings :) [22:25] But I think monthly meetings are a good idea. Perhaps fortnightly meetings toward the end of the cycle, even. [22:25] back then it was all chaos [22:26] Ah, I see. [22:26] godbyk, sure that could work but for only desktop and server docs. [22:27] belkinsa: Yeah, that's primarily what I had in mind. [22:27] The wiki stuff is kind of an ongoing project. There are no hard deadlines to meet. [22:27] (would be nice) ;) [22:27] belkinsa: I can give you some deadlines if you like. ;-) [22:28] we could create wiki-based projects for cleanup or topic improvements that have deadlines [22:28] might inspire folks to participate if there are clear goals for what needs attention [22:28] Yeah, that would be awesome. [22:28] to pleia2. [22:28] pleia2: Yeah. [22:28] :( [22:28] And having wiki jams would work well, too, I think. [22:28] If someone organized a list of, say, frequently visited pages that needed to be cleaned up or updated. A list of things for people to work on. [22:29] I tryed for this cycle but I forgot to put down the date. [22:29] Of the Global Jam. [22:29] godbyk, that can work and with popularpages it's possible. [22:30] Oh, while a few of you are here, would anyone like to help moderate the ubuntu-docs mailing list? [22:30] We get a handful of messages each day that land in the moderation queue. [22:30] Sure. [22:30] Most of them are spam. [22:30] But a few are ones from people who just aren't subscribed to the list. [22:30] (We've had a few more of these recently for FFe and UIFe requests.) [22:30] I saw. [22:31] belkinsa: Thanks. I'll get you added to the moderators list then. [22:31] From the ones that were filtered through. [22:31] and you can create "jams" that are unrelated to the "global jam" - the global jam is a specific event in the cycle (and comes kind of late for most of our docs aside from wiki) [22:31] Thanks. [22:31] tends to be one locos participate in and stuff [22:31] pleia2: (Everything comes late in the cycle with regard to docs. ;-)) [22:31] Yeah, that was the plan and I think the Global Jam got me thinking the other way. [22:31] godbyk: indeed! [22:31] godbyk: How about simply rejecting messages from non-subscribed posters with an explanation and basically drop moderation? [22:31] Maybe a Global Doc Jam that is mid cycle? [22:32] GunnarHj: I'm not sure what our options are. I haven't looked too closely yet. [22:32] GunnarHj: But at the moment, I don't want to miss any freeze exception requests. [22:32] godbyk: It's a Mailman list, right? [22:32] GunnarHj: It's something we can consider after this cycle is finished, though. [22:32] GunnarHj: Yeah. [22:33] godbyk: If you are an admin, and not just a moderator, you have access to change it. [22:33] godbyk: But it's a policy thing also, of course. [22:33] GunnarHj: Something to consider, however, is that we don't want to make it so onerous for people to submit their freeze exception requests that they avoid doing it. [22:34] godbyk: Maybe open at freeze time and otherwise closed? [22:34] belkinsa: calling it "global" confuses it with the loco team-focused event, I'd just say it's a "Docs Jam" [22:34] Okak. [22:34] GunnarHj: That's a good options, too. [22:35] godbyk: I mean, in general it's reasonable to require that you are subscribed to a list you post to. [22:35] I tend to let stuff go to the moderation queue and just deal with the spam, it's not that much work (and I admin a lot of lists) [22:36] people often get confused about subscriptions and things, just give up if they get a reject notice (even one explaining how to subscribe) [22:36] pleia2: And the spam I've seen so far has been quite easy to recognize, so it's not too onerous. [22:36] godbyk: yeah, I have to look at a message about 5% of the time, the rest are obvious [22:37] Ok, I'll keep my mouth shut then. I'm not volunteering, though. ;-) [22:37] GunnarHj: hehe [22:37] GunnarHj: you do make good points, I just don't mind making godbyk do more work ;) [22:37] pleia2: Ha! [22:38] and with that, back to work for me! [22:38] Just a wonder: do we have enough active members to have two drivers in each sub-team? [22:39] pleia2: Thanks, pleia2. [22:39] belkinsa: We might barely have enough. :) [22:39] belkinsa: Do we have enough active members to have *one* driver in each? [22:40] Good point. We have for server and maybe for wiki. [22:40] server=dsmythies and wiki=belkinsa ? [22:41] Yup. [22:41] If no one has a problem with me being the wiki diver. [22:41] driver* [22:41] Normally, I'd volunteer to help with the desktop docs, but I'm a bit swamped at the moment. [22:41] I see. [22:41] Hey, shaunm. How busy are you? [22:42] I'm kind of fed up with Ubuntu stuff at the moment, so I would not like to enter that role either, at least not right now. [22:43] belkinsa: Btw, I think you'll be an excellent wiki driver. ;-) [22:52] Anyways, I think we should start the monthly meetings next month if possible. [22:54] belkinsa: Sounds good to me. With those we can live with the desktop driver role being vacant, especially in the beginning of the cycle. [22:58] Oh, you think it's a good idea to add the contact info to the drivers on the Contact Us page? [22:58] Absolutely. [23:00] belkinsa: I saw this page accidentally the other day: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams [23:00] And? [23:00] belkinsa: Most teams have a "leader" - the docs team does not. [23:01] I know. I stated that out when I joined the team. [23:01] belkinsa: Possibly we should add a reference there to the page where the sub group drivers are listed? [23:01] Sure. [23:03] Going to bed now. See you all. [23:03] See ya. [23:23] Should we have a driver for the manual? [23:24] we should ask them :) [23:24] Sure. [23:25] On it. [23:27] Sub-team contact info added to this https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact and added this to the teams page also. [23:28] are drivers really contacts? I'd much rather have folks still use the mailing list for most stuff and drivers just nudge things along [23:28] Oh. Good point. [23:28] it's fine if the drivers want to be listed as contacts, but I hadn't made the assumption [23:28] No, I did and I shouldn't of done that [23:29] no it's fine, just want to make sure we're all on the same page :) [23:29] I removed the e-mail and IRC nick. [23:30] And is this in the right place on the page? [23:32] seems fine, we might want to formulate what we want a driver to do exactly [23:32] Okay. [23:33] I can respond on list about it, just wrapping up some work things [23:33] Sure. [23:37] I added a bit on what one is. [23:52] pleia2, on the team page, there is a reference to the Wiki team. Should that be removed since it's now a sub-team of this team? [23:53] belkinsa: they've always been a subteam of this team [23:53] I think it's still appropriate as is [23:53] Okay. [23:54] Should the other two be added to that list then?