[00:14] +1 [00:23] ochosi, I took a look at your light locker article [00:23] the virtual terminal paragraph was over my head but otherwise I found it very understandable [00:24] it helped me understand a lot of the discussion about it that has gone on here [00:24] happy to hear [00:24] I did make a couple of minor suggestions and submitted them for review [00:25] to the article? [00:25] yes [00:26] I'm not sure if I did it right [00:26] not sure either [00:26] i for one didn't know you could add suggestions and reviews in wordpress [00:27] to me it looks like you still have that page locked for editing [00:27] just logged out [00:29] i guess i gotta look at the history of the article to see your suggestions/changes [00:31] yeah, if you browse Revisions, it looks like my edits are showing as the current revision [00:31] well, yeah, cause there is no review function in wordpress [00:32] putting the status to "pending review" is misleading [00:32] hence i changed that [00:33] I took a chance and hit the 'Submit for review' button. Didn't know what that would do but figured you could repair the damage :) [00:33] sure, np [00:34] you're a native speaker, aren't you? [00:34] yes [00:34] well nvm, it's still "its", not "it's" [00:35] because it's possessive, not short for "it is" [00:36] and afaik you can use integrate with "into" [00:36] or we say "integrated in gnome shell" [00:37] sure [00:38] oh right, then WP was showing that messed up [00:41] ochosi: I'd like the patch that magically turns header bars into normal menus. :P [00:41] I can update from Xfwm master, sure. [00:43] yeah, but that was a bit hacky iirc [00:44] headerbars patch hasn't been merged yet, just fyi [00:44] ...I think I'd prefer hacky to headerbars... [00:45] ochosi: How would file-roller be changed with it? [00:45] fileroller doesn't have a headerbar [00:46] it uses the normal window-decoration [00:46] it uses gnome's appmenu [00:46] which is a different thing [00:46] No, but it does have weird menus. [00:46] i know [00:46] we should report a bug... [00:46] OK, is there anything that does have them? [00:49] gthumb [00:49] you'll see window-deco packed in window-deco [00:49] looks awesome [00:56] Not installed. \o/ [00:56] So, I suppose if it's a clean patch, sure. [03:35] :D [04:03] ochosi: it's a good post, I might convert some of the ()s to , though (I am also guilty of parathetical abuse, so I am aware ..see?) === jackson is now known as Guest50945 [06:20] goooood morning [09:41] ochosi knome - got a this re the ibus issue " it's on my list for some time but I can't promise anything right now, as some other stuff is filling all my time with higher priority..." [09:43] humm [09:44] that's not very comforting news [09:45] no, not really, but we should push it, because it's most probably a regression they introduced [09:49] how about removing ibus for the moment? (RC is in one week!) [09:49] I guess adding it back later is easier than a last minute removal [09:50] yeah, i'd like to hear that suggestion from someone who really knows about the common use-cases/scenarios for ibus [09:51] we might upset a lot of ppl by just dropping it – or not [09:51] it seems to be a bit of a black box until now [09:53] hmm, is shipping a broken feature worse than not shipping it? [09:53] it's just broken by default, it's repairable by users from what i heard [09:53] at least for me (german keyboard) the current bahviour is clearly a serious problem [09:54] yes, but it gives a very bad first impression [09:54] and I am not sure if the avarage users wants to dig into this [09:54] i'm personally in favor of dropping ibus, but i'd like someone with more xp on the issue (than me) to give an educated opinion that we can follow [09:55] well surly somebody longer than me here takes teh decision anyway [09:55] just pointing out that the broken by default is in my eyes the worst possible state [09:56] better to not ship it and have people install it themselves if needed [09:56] i agree, the problem that i see is that many of us have spent lots of time and energy this cycle and are slowly burning up a bit [09:56] so if you wanna take care of that issue, try to find someone proficient in ibus (e.g. the bug assignee) and get an opinion/explanation from him [09:56] present it to us in some way and help us to take a decision [09:58] ochosi: do we plan to add ali1234's title-less window decoration patch? [09:58] I think elfy has better connection with the people for that [09:59] you don't need any connections [09:59] brainwash: if you're referring to the headerbar patch for xfwm4, then i don't think that has received enough testing (which is why i asked Unit193 to put it in his PPA so more people get to it) [09:59] ochosi: see my PPA :) [10:00] https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test [10:00] jhenke: yup, brainwash is right. you mostly need time/patience and a friendly attitude (bearing in mind that most ppl are doing this for free in their free time) [10:00] ochosi: tested with gthumb and it works [10:00] ochosi: that was clear already [10:01] ;) [10:01] still already knowing the people can be an asset [10:01] yeah, but time and patience trumps that [10:01] because that's how you get to know ppl [10:01] anyway, no harm in asking others in here for help [10:02] brainwash: good to hear, why not send calls for testing to the ML for stuff in your PPA? [10:02] maybe [10:02] a bug report would be helpful also [10:02] yup [10:03] and we'd need to add some more support for this in our themes [10:03] really? [10:03] iirc you can define additional tiles/pixmaps for the top border in headerbars [10:03] yeah, otherwise it'll look slightly out of place [10:03] any example app? [10:03] anyway, i don't consider this branch critical for 14.04 because ubuntu-desktop folks patched away the headerbars in most apps [10:04] from the screenshots ali1234 showed, this was general behavior [10:04] just to get the same roundness/kerning in headerbar as in xfwm4 [10:04] tested gthumb with numix.. it was 95% black [10:04] feel free to show me a screener of gthumb with that [10:04] yeah, i only saw greybird/orion so far [10:59] meeting today? [11:21] Hello, when I started 14.04 this morning the volume indicator was missing [12:02] guywithaquestion: can you please check settings manager > session and startup > autostart applications [12:03] and see if indicator sound is enabled [12:04] brainwash: It was unchecked, what would make it so and can I start it without relogging? [12:08] guywithaquestion: try the command "exo-open /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-sound.desktop" [12:08] but the entry shouldn't be unchecked in the first place [12:08] I can confirm that it is (new user account) [12:09] brainwash: Okay, I re-checked it on mine. Starting the indicator gives some errors (like asking for gmusicbrowser.desktop) and sone dbus error [12:14] guywithaquestion: but the indicator is now visible, right? [12:14] hm, same here (sound-indicator gone after some updates) [12:14] brainwash: yeah [12:15] I'm lenny from yesterday by the way. Apparently it auto-changed to this [12:16] do you want to file a bug report? [12:18] ochosi knome - I've approaced infinity and jibel in -release about this ibus thing - see if they can point us somewhere, but as it stands, knowing the little I do - I'm with ochosi in removing it [12:18] (eh, no, i just realized that might be because i reset the session xfconf channel when doing some tests) [12:18] jhenke: no - not really I don't [12:18] elfy: we could at least disable it by default (if that is easily doable) [12:19] yea [12:19] if nothing get's done it time I guess we could turn it back on for .1 [12:20] well, or whenever it works again.. [12:20] and yes - I've lost the volume indicator as well [12:20] oh ok [12:20] it really got disabled in autotstart [12:20] ochosi: yea - I kind of assume that it'll get sorted soon [12:20] I've never seen in it autostart [12:20] s/it in [12:20] it [12:21] 's been there since they switched to upstart jobs to start indicators [12:21] mmm - well I never noticed it when I Was having issues, perhaps because it wasn't a clean install [12:22] they changed the autostart launcher [12:22] how exactly? [12:22] OnlyShowIn=Unity? :) [12:22] -NotShowIn=Unity; [12:22] +OnlyShowIn=Unity;XFCE;GNOME; [12:23] +AutostartCondition=GNOME3 unless-session gnome [12:23] mmh [12:23] so i guess that autostartcondition is what's messed up [12:24] delete it and test :) [12:24] are you telling me to test something instead of doing that yourself? [12:25] I couldn't even find the autostart launcher to delete it ... [12:26] bbl [12:26] I'm not even here [12:28] ochosi: yeah, because I cannot right now [12:38] that's strange, the launcher located in /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart seems to override the normal launcher [12:39] and that launcher specifies to be hidden [12:43] activate it in session startup settings, and see which config is copied maybe? [12:46] already tested [12:47] I've changed the upstart launcher directly [12:48] did you change AutostartCondition? [12:48] no, I removed the line "hidden=true" [12:48] which unchecks the launcher [12:49] ah [12:49] seems like a silly setting to enable [12:49] maybe it's not for the unity session [12:49] does that affect all flavors, including ubuntu? [12:50] don't know [12:50] all flavors? it's unity or xfce [12:50] ah [12:51] so, the two most important flavors ;) [12:52] ah, changing the profile picture prompts me to enter my password [12:52] odd [12:52] I guess any changes does [12:52] maybe even when not changing anything at all? :D [12:52] it should just be first name, last name, office, home phones [12:52] I'll test that [12:53] feel free to investigate and see what I messed up [12:53] yep, opened the app and hit apply -> password prompt [12:53] I'll be offline until meeting time today [12:54] lovely [12:54] not a big deal [12:54] usually one does not change user details every day [12:55] yeah, it works correctly for me [12:55] how did you run/install it? [12:56] settings manager and mugshot trunk [12:57] mugshot trunk, how did you install it? [12:57] my ppa, daily recipe [12:58] I'll install it manually from trunk [12:59] also try running from a terminal [12:59] mugshot -vv to get an idea of whats up [12:59] I'll be back later [13:02] bluesabre: mmh, works fine now [13:03] maybe my ppa one was outdated [13:18] Okay, I rebooted with indicator sound checked in the settings. It doesn't seem to have started though. [13:19] ** (process:2076): WARNING **: media-player-list-mpris.vala:66: unable to find application 'gmusicbrowser.desktop' [13:19] ** (process:2076): CRITICAL **: volume_control_set_volume_internal: assertion '_tmp1_ == PA_CONTEXT_READY' failed [13:19] (process:2076): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed [13:37] lenny: works for me [13:38] could it be because I uninstalled gmusicbrowser? it seems like it's only a warning in those error messages [13:39] that's only a warning, right [13:39] but the 2nd line isn't [13:39] did you disable pulseaudio? [13:39] no [13:39] can you launch the indicator manually? [13:40] no [13:40] didn't you say that the indicator was visible after starting it manually? [13:41] yes, it worked before rebooting [13:41] (and upgrading) [13:41] oh [13:41] any indicator related upgrades? [13:41] or pulseaudio [13:42] there were loads of upgrades, I didn't check carefully :/ [13:43] mmh, I suggest that we bother the guys in #ubuntu-desktop [13:43] especially tedg [14:02] that discussion went way above my head [14:02] :D [14:03] right, bad luck I guess [14:03] I don't see how it could be an upstart issue if I'm manually launching it with exo-open~ and it fails though [14:03] those are two different issues I think [14:03] it did work for you before the reboot [14:04] so technically it should work always [14:04] unless something changed again [14:04] yeah, I just did the update which made your desktop background go white [14:04] by just I mean before i rebooted [14:05] this one is already fixed upstream, but it will take some time until the fix lands in 14.04 [14:05] sadly [14:05] so enjoy your white background :) [14:05] My background came back after rebooting :p [14:06] it should [14:06] it even made a quick appearance as it was shutting down :p [14:09] so the problem with the disabled sound indicator is now, that we (xubuntu) need to fix it [14:09] so that the user does not have to enable it manually [14:10] but like you've already mentioned, maybe there is something else broken now too :D [14:10] yes, it's very reminiscent of the old release ;) [14:11] The sound indicator only appeared after editing some file [14:12] indeed [14:13] bluesabre: when I checked this ubuntu was not affected [14:15] :) hey elfy i did the upgrade yesterday [14:15] it worked alright [14:16] P: theming was broken but thats not something new, i had my panels and things modified so i selected the greybird themes again, should i report that as a bug? [14:16] "theme is not selected after upgrade"? [14:17] thanks GridCube :) [14:20] i noticed something today that i havent had the time to check tho. i woke up the computer today and it was on "suspension" state, you know when the drives and the monitor is shut down, not just locked like it was using xscreensaver, i knew it would change to lighlocker so that was not so surprising, but it going to full suspension was, so i wanted to set it up to never do that again and i could not log into the powermanager settings 'cos [14:20] it said those services where not running [14:21] i will check again when i get home again and can test the computer, but i wanted to warn you about this, other thing was that it took a whole lot of time to log out, and when i clicked the shutdown icon again it told me something similar, that the shutdown service was not available or something like that, but then it went and log off, so i assume it was just taking its time to do so [14:45] sorry GridCube was afk [14:45] dont worry :) [14:46] ok - read that now - no-one else has reported anything like that yet === GridCube_ is now known as GridCube [15:45] Is there a point, that xfce4-mixer has not been installed? LTS upgrade [15:46] xfce4-mixer doesn't work with pulseaudio [15:46] so it was replaced by pavucontrol (althouh i thought 12.04 also had pavucontrol) [15:49] Does this also offer an applet? [15:52] no, we use the sound indicator [16:03] Okay. Thanks, it seems to work. [16:05] If I remove the xfce4-mixer package, also the option to add the volume control applet seems to be removed. [16:16] Justanick, the sound indicator is integrated to pluging indicators addon [16:28] GridCube: The neweset version is installed. [16:29] then the sound indicator should be there. [16:30] Should. ;) [16:31] GridCube: there is a bug [16:33] Any useful thing I can do? [16:33] oh [16:35] Justanick: in what regard? [16:36] Do you need any information added to the bug? Or is it known and just waiting for a fix? [16:36] no sure tbh - I only skimmed the backlog here [16:38] Okay [16:44] Thanks so far [16:45] GridCube: you need to turn sound indicator on in session - autostart it appears [16:47] elfy: btw, happyaron (= aron xu) is OL right now, in case you have time/energy to chat him up about ibus (sry, gotta run again) [16:49] i pinged him in PM and asked to join this channel [16:49] so we have some public logs [16:58] knome: Not 100% sure I'll be able to be around for the meeting [16:58] ok [16:59] i guess it doesn't matter too much [16:59] not much people have been around lately, [16:59] there isn't anything to vote on [16:59] there aren't issues where we need a biggish proportion of the team around [16:59] just bugfixes and status updates [16:59] yup [17:00] unfortunately I have a work meeting in about 10 minutes and don't know how long is going to take [17:00] I'll catch up on the logs, when I'll get home [17:00] bbl -> [17:08] what do the lubuntu guys say about the ibus problem? [17:08] well the mail I sent to the list was roundly ignored - gilir is aware I mailed him [17:09] and I think the only report of it on their tracker is the one I did when I checked to see if it affected them [17:10] oh :) [17:13] yea - oh ... [17:14] at least it works fine in unity :D [17:15] maybe the unity session just tells ibus to shut up [18:10] meeting in 50mins... and again, anybody fancy chairing the meeting? [18:11] i actually have to take off in 5mins :/ [18:11] that's fine... [18:11] the meeting we will have today also looks like an easy one to chair [18:12] yeah [18:12] not too many goings on [18:17] offical xubuntu team meeting? [18:17] yes, at 19UTC [18:17] jhenke: it will be [18:18] knome: I can't drive the bot nor the agenda and have a bone in my leg [18:18] i have several bones in both of my legs - what's so special about that? ;P [18:19] you're not a parent then ... [18:19] free to join for everybody, respective can everybody speak there? [18:19] THAT is the excuse for not doing things - remember it :) [18:19] jhenke, absolutely [18:19] jhenke, the "official" name of the meeting is "xubuntu community meeting" [18:19] jhenke, only voting on some specific issues is restricted for the team, and that's always explicitly mentioned [18:20] I see, proably still most of the attendes are those who also normally contribute? [18:20] pretty much so [18:20] in #ubuntu-meeting? [18:20] no, on this channel [18:20] okay [18:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings [18:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for the agenda and other info [18:21] ha ha [18:21] elfy, congrats ;) [18:21] super speedy elfy [18:23] thanks guys, good to get the info redundand ;) [18:28] Wow, this looks to be a loooong meeting. :P [18:38] brainwash: was just about to do that :p === jackson is now known as Guest37026 === Guest37026 is now known as Noskcaj_ [18:54] === Xubuntu community meeting in 6 minutes, at #xubuntu-devel === [18:59] o/ [19:00] tea's cold brb [19:00] hehe [19:00] #startmeeting [19:00] Meeting started Thu Apr 3 19:00:26 2014 UTC. The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [19:00] Available commands: action commands idea info link nick [19:01] Our last meeting info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-03-27 [19:01] pleia2, <3 [19:01] #topic #Team Updates [19:01] #topic Team Updates [19:02] (we'll talk about the ibus thing later) [19:02] any updates? [19:02] i don't have much updates [19:02] #info Wallpaper is still waiting for an upload [19:02] #info ochosi drafted post about screen locker [19:02] those with access, review would be appreciated :) [19:03] #info knome has worked on the website code a bit and planning to land a new revision to production before release [19:03] i've reviewed that article once, can do again when/if more changes are introduced [19:03] #info [xubuntu-qa] Image testing 64bit - 2 [19:03] #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 32bit - 5 total incl 3 LTS to LTS [19:03] #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 64bit - 7 total incl 5 LTS to LTS [19:03] #info [xubuntu-qa] Repeating upgrade test call - including -users [19:03] \o/ [19:03] cool, better than i thought ;) [19:03] but still room for improvement [19:03] pleia2: I looked too - did as I promised ochosi and added a bit re screensaver and ligtlocker [19:04] elfy: oh good, those were good additions [19:04] knome: yea - as I said I'll call again and include -users this time [19:04] any other updates? [19:04] well, people have worked on bugs [19:05] i can't see much other news really [19:05] * pleia2 nods [19:05] o/ [19:05] #topic IBus issue update [19:05] hey bluesabre [19:05] hey everyone [19:05] I chatted with knome and elfy about this this morning, elfy is following up with a couple folks dholbach recommended talking to [19:05] welcome bluesabre [19:06] I'm partially here :) [19:06] bluesabre, tell us some tips to being in multiple places at once after the meeting please ;) [19:06] currently talking to seb bacher [19:06] elfy: yay! [19:06] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1284635 [19:07] Launchpad bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] [19:07] seb128> elfy, I guess if I say 'patches are welcome' it doesn't help you? [19:07] is there a realistic chance the issue get fixed before april 17th? [19:07] the bug in question, which pretty much broke on all the flavors [19:07] except kubuntu ;) [19:08] jhenke, it's really hard to assess that, depends how seriously canonical employees are taking the issue (and the policy to have to fix what you broke, even if it doesn't affect you) [19:09] knome okay, but I guess that is the core question about the issue [19:09] Could just drop it like a hot potato. [19:10] we can avoid the issue by not seeding ibus by default, but that might make some other people less happy [19:10] what is it needed for? [19:10] I think some languages, especially asian ones, need it to write their letters [19:11] e.g. chinese letters, but also vietnamse can be written by it [19:11] ah, yeah that's important [19:11] as those languages do not nessesary have all their letters mapped to keybard keys [19:12] the rest of the Ubuntu CC will help nudge this along if elfy hits a wall [19:12] anything else on this topic? [19:13] well it seriously breaks xubuntu on default for everybody [19:13] but I guess that is known... [19:13] * jhenke hides [19:15] indeed, it's bad [19:15] can those with access - give the QA recap blog article a once over - it's done - except for last minute number crunching [19:15] elfy: can they revert the patch that broke it and make them come up with another solution? :) [19:15] elfy: I'll try to take a look tonight [19:16] cheers [19:16] thanks for chasing this down, elfy [19:16] #topic Other business [19:17] anything else? [19:17] they also changed indicator-sound, so it's now unchecked in autostart applications and the user needs to enable it, otherwise it won't launch automatically on session start [19:17] we might return to it shortly ... [19:17] "they"? [19:18] indicator devs [19:18] ubuntu guys [19:18] "they" [19:18] why? [19:18] I don't know [19:18] definitely not to troll us... [19:18] lol [19:18] but since xfce and unity are the only ones that use indicator-sound... it seems odd [19:19] (to my understanding) [19:19] we should either stop using the upstart user session or use upstart to launch the indicator stack [19:20] * Unit193 is still confused as to why we use the upstart user session. [19:20] or blacklist the upstart launcher for indicator-sound [19:20] it's complicated [19:21] Unit193: because we did not tell them, that we don't want to use it [19:21] brainwash: And the benefit of using it is? To restart things if they crash? [19:22] user upstart job management [19:22] not sure if xubuntu/xfce actually benefits from it [19:25] anything else we need to talk about? [19:26] ok, thanks everyone [19:26] quick q [19:26] sure [19:27] has anybody made progress on the ubiquity wallpaper? I think its assigned to xnox, right? [19:27] or has that already been discussed? :) [19:27] ochosi has added a comment to the bug report [19:27] bug number ? [19:28] bug 1284910 [19:28] bug 1284910 in ubiquity (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu Beta 1 and Beta 2 installer has debian background wallpaper" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284910 [19:28] critical? :P [19:29] it does look pretty bad [19:29] we're quite partial to our wallpapers :) [19:29] not thrilled with so obviously shipping debian branding in xubuntu either [19:30] Debian wallpaper doesn't really bother me, kind of funny. [19:30] dpkg -l | grep debian [19:30] ii debianutils 4.4 amd64 Miscellaneous utilities specific to Debian [19:30] ii gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3:amd64 0.10.23.debian-3 amd64 Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 0.10 plugin [19:30] ii gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3:amd64 0.10.23.debian-3 amd64 Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 1.0 plugin [19:30] is the installed wallpaper issue effectively the same one ? [19:30] ii intltool-debian 0.35.0+20060710.1 all Help i18n of RFC822 compliant config files [19:30] I love debian, but we aren't debian, it is bad for both of us [19:30] ii libcdparanoia0:amd64 3.10.2+debian-11 amd64 audio extraction tool for sampling CDs (library) [19:30] ii libgdome2-0 0.8.1+debian-6 amd64 DOM level2 library for accessing XML files [19:30] ii libparse-debianchangelog-perl 1.2.0-1ubuntu1 all parse Debian changelogs and output them in other formats [19:30] ii libparted0debian1:amd64 2.3-18 amd64 disk partition manipulator - shared library [19:30] ii libsdl1.2debian:amd64 1.2.15-8ubuntu1 amd64 Simple DirectMedia Layer [19:30] lenny: did you really have to do that :| [19:30] ii python-debian 0.1.21+nmu2ubuntu2 all Python modules to work with Debian-related data formats [19:30] lenny: please stop [19:31] sorry, didn't mean to do all in seperate [19:31] that's not "obvious" [19:31] a big wallpaper in our installer is [19:31] yeah, I guess [19:31] lenny we all know that there are plenty of packets with debian references, not the poin here [19:32] first impressions are important [19:32] * pleia2 nods [19:32] Sadly, yes, yes they are. [19:33] ok, well I don't have anything else to add [19:33] ok, thanks everyone [19:33] thanks pleia2 [19:33] #endmeeting [19:33] next meeting? [19:33] Meeting ended Thu Apr 3 19:33:29 2014 UTC. [19:33] Minutes: http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-03-19.00.moin.txt [19:33] :P [19:33] thanks pleia2 [19:33] thanks pleia2 [19:33] bbl [19:33] thanks pleia2 [19:34] knome: sorry :) [19:34] next week? [19:34] I won't be around :P [19:34] * pleia2 pycon [19:34] jealous [19:34] :) [19:35] I'm excited, it'll be my first time [19:35] I can't attend meetings till the end of the year now. Daylight savings time is gone [19:35] even if I have to do booth duty :) [19:36] I think next week is the RC date? [19:36] just a note: please the stuff from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test [19:36] various fixes for different apps [19:36] Is there a browsable list of known bugs/not well working xubuntu functions? [19:37] Justanick: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs [19:44] elfy, want to run the same test i'm doing? [19:44] I can certainly try :) [19:45] i'll start with zsyncing the latest iso [19:45] Against which package has it to be fill, if the "Aero snapping" of the xfce4-terminal is not working as expected? [19:45] if I can work out which ones to grab ... [19:46] Justanick: not as expected? [19:46] you either want *amd64* or *i386* [19:46] you can probably guess which you want :P [19:47] from the ftp page? [19:47] xfce4-terminal doesn't always play nice with snapping because it can only be resized in increments of 1 character [19:47] elfy, yep [19:47] that can cause anything that tries to rezie windows to blow up [19:47] knome: this package? gir1.2-ibus-1.0_1.5.5-1_amd64.deb [19:47] and everything else with amd64 [19:48] hmm, wait [19:48] ok [19:48] elfy: dpkg -l | grep 1.5.5-1ubuntu3 and replace all those with debian versions, generally. [19:48] okey doke [19:48] well there you go. [19:48] brainwash: If I let snap it to the right or left side of the desktop, there is left free space at the bottom. [19:48] :) [19:48] got it installing now [19:48] ali1234: That may be the point. [19:48] The binary packages are listed at the bottom left of: http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ibus.html [19:49] Justanick: so it is working as intended :) [19:49] Unit193: aah yes - thanks [19:49] Yes. [19:49] Sure. [19:49] ali1234: I've subscribed you to the xfwm4 bug report :P [19:50] if it's on launchpad then i'm already subscribed [19:50] ok :) [19:53] btw regarding titleless window, the screenshots i posted were all numix [19:54] https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/QMZj3cUP6fT [19:57] ali1234: How hackish was the patch that forces old menus? [19:57] you mean headeraway? [19:57] incredibly hackish [19:57] Darn. [19:58] gtk developers would probably burn me if they caught me [19:58] * Unit193 doesn't care about GTK devs, they're all mental anyway. [19:58] https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway/blob/master/preload.c [19:58] said the kettle ... [19:58] it's a preload library... dynamically patches gtk at runtime [19:59] you call header_bar_new and it gives you back a gtk_box collection instead [20:00] in a sense it is not more hackish than the way ubuntu menuproxy works :) [20:00] Doesn't sound too bad, if more than gthumb needed it I'd use it (once I figured out how. :P ) [20:01] you compile it into a .so using the makefile then you do LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/library.so gthumb [20:02] or if you are totally crazy put the variable into your environment [20:04] Thanks, this sounds like fun. :D [20:12] knome: well - I did that - get the same problem :( [20:12] so I wonder why, if debian are using xfce as default that it's not shown up there [20:15] knome: possibly it is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734985 [20:15] Debian bug 734985 in ibus "[ibus] ibus does not respect /etc/default/keyboard XKBOPTIONS" [Normal,Open] [20:16] the reporter has older ibus versions though [20:16] yea - but it's definitely the same issue [20:18] and the link to the debian forum - guy is using xfce [20:20] hmh, not sure [20:20] xkboptions seems to be irrelevant to kb layout [20:21] yep - so no further forward really [20:21] nope [20:21] expect you are able to reproduce with debian packages in ubuntu [20:21] did you get them to install at all [20:21] i haven't got so far [20:21] yes - same issue with debian packages in todays daily [20:22] i guess the next thing is install and boot debian [20:22] and see if you have a similar problem [20:22] though i guess the installation process is different [20:22] might still be worth checking [20:23] not a problem - I can do that [20:23] Other than the fact I have no idea what the problem is, I do have a Debian VM. [20:23] testing or stable [20:23] Erm, testing or unstable. [20:24] Unit193: ok - we're trying to see if the same error is there as here for bug 1284635 [20:24] bug 1284635 in ibus (Ubuntu Trusty) "Keyboard layout changes after login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284635 [20:26] elfy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2536196/debian7testing.ova.gz [20:26] what's that? [20:26] 3Gb file ... [20:26] Debian testing, already setup with Xfce and stuff. US defaults though. [20:27] yea - I want to install it with a UK keyboard layout [20:27] thanks :) [20:28] good night folks [20:29] night jhenke [20:30] Installing ibus now, already have the system set to en_GB. [20:32] ta [20:34] Hah, "Wastebasket" :P [20:34] :D [20:34] "Rubbish Bin" [20:35] ali1234: in Places I see Wastebasket, in Thunar Rubbish Bin [20:35] if you are using en_GB and you see "Wastebasket" it's a bug [20:35] places plugin has this bug [20:35] I have that bug [20:42] Unit193: so? if kbd layout is UK what happens on the desktop - sets to US? [20:44] (I had to remove ibus again, to see what keys might be different and if I actually hit the bug or have no idea what I'm doing/know what keys are supposed to be different. :P ) [20:45] Yeah, ibus screwed up # [20:46] this is not what we wanted ;) [20:47] Indeed not, would have been nicer if it was an Ubuntu bug. [20:47] With the last updates for a few minutes the wallpaper has been reset with a grey colour. [20:47] ^ [20:48] Justanick: yes - known issue [20:48] Justanick: Open terminal: killall xfdesktop and it's fixed. [20:48] bug 1302101 [20:48] bug 1302101 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "Desktop background turns to a dirty white color after switching theme" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302101 [20:48] Unit193: yep - would have been better for us [20:49] elfy: You want to tell seb or confirm? [20:50] Okay [20:52] confirming [20:53] at a guess I still think it is that bug I found on debian ^^ [20:56] elfy: Or, that it doesn't honor the file /etc/default/keyboard at all. [20:56] wow, a "new" hint :) [20:56] no idea - as knome said that doesn't appear to do much [20:56] we need to fix this stupid thing [20:57] ibus exit [20:57] that's not what knome said ... [20:57] :P [20:57] the bug is about xkboptions - this issue appears to be about xkblayout [20:58] elfy: I was pointing at the file, not the specific line. :D [20:58] bah [20:58] so I have no idea what I set the password too lol [20:58] hah [20:59] wheresmybloomintea [20:59] lol [21:01] and the keyboard isn't working at all in vbox debian recovery mode ... [21:02] too late for mucking about - reinstall it with password of sodthis [21:16] ok [21:17] knome: so installed debian - and # is # and in the right place when I have logged in [21:17] but I bet that's the older ibus [21:18] sigh - said it was too late :( [21:19] really didn't want to have to do a long winded install ... [21:19] hm? [21:20] that was time well saved :| [21:22] installing testing now [21:33] knome: so - assuming that once I've got this installed and confirm the issue is there - a) tell seb b) we'll need to decide what we do [21:33] we could/should ask the debian maintainers if they have time to look at it [21:35] until I know for sure the issue exists there it's all guesswork - but given that debian ship with xfce as default I don't understand what they're not seeing the issue [21:35] mh [21:36] does debian install/use ibus by default? [21:36] I can't answer that ochosi [21:37] just infering that this could be why nobody else has noticed [21:37] i also don't have any clue how ibus is configured by default [21:38] and whether we should pro-actively do something about that [21:48] i'm off for tonight, see you all later [21:48] elfy, let's be in touch tomorrow [21:48] ok [21:49] working till 12UTC - will post in here later though [22:21] knome: ok so - debian testing does not use ibus by default [22:21] install ibus into it and then # becomes \ [22:21] huh [22:21] well that's good to know [22:21] yep [22:23] ochosi: that was were seb left us - checking to see what the state of it in debian was - whether it was an ubuntu change that was the issue - which it seems to not be, the chances of getting it looked at now are pretty slim I think [22:23] yup [22:23] i read the backlog [22:23] so the course is clear then [22:23] either remove it or find a way to disable it by default [22:23] yep - seems to be [22:23] and blog about how ppl who need it can get it back [22:23] * ochosi shrugs [22:23] yea [22:24] it's a known issue - so it will be on there [22:24] now we only need to find a dev/uploader to execute those changes for us [22:24] yea ... [22:24] can dholbach do that? [22:24] i already told knome, but from tomorrow onwards i won't be around much until the release [22:24] he can, but he needs at least a MR [22:24] ok - thanks for letting me know [22:25] i guess we have two options [22:25] right ok - so dholbach will do it I am sure - pleia2 and I were talking to him about this issue earlier [22:25] 1) drop it from the seed (i.e. not install it anymore by default) [22:25] 2) find a way to disable it by default [22:26] do you have any idea how to achieve 2) without doing 1)? [22:26] absolutely none at all [22:27] me neither [22:27] it's all gone a bit horrible in the last 100metres here ... [22:27] I'd favour us not seeding it [22:27] yeah, the indicators not autostarting anymore is also nasty [22:27] yea - that's what I mean [22:28] and the wallpapers [22:28] yup, it looked like a solid release [22:28] and the new white thing with icons [22:28] and we got a lot done [22:28] new white thing? [22:28] absolutely did [22:28] the bug when you chane icons/themes [22:28] and then what happens? [22:28] desktop wallpaper disappears? [22:29] you know about this - you confirmed it [22:29] yea [22:29] that one [22:29] ah right, but that's fixed already [22:29] only a matter of getting the fix uploaded [22:29] ok - not seen the fix come through [22:29] so i'm not worried about that at all [22:29] :) [22:29] yeah, not uploaded yet [22:29] there might be a release tomorrow or on the weekend [22:29] then the upload [22:29] so that's straightforward [22:29] so ibus seems to be a case of not using it - simplish I assume [22:30] the indicators is the nasty one now I think [22:30] yeah, if we get lots of complaints then we'll at least know that it *is* used by ppl for somethign :D [22:30] :) [22:31] brainwash: have you tried to add that loginctl command yet? [22:31] right - I've got to crash now - night all [22:31] night elfy [22:31] ochosi: I'll see you when I see you then I guess :) [22:32] good night [22:32] ochosi: hardcoded? [22:33] or via a wrapper or autostart entry? [22:33] see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L389 [22:34] well how should i know what you've tested? [22:34] just tell what you did test so far :p [22:34] opened a terminal and typed the command [22:34] autostart entry seems to make sense, because then ppl have a way of disabling all of them (instead of only hiding all of them). that's a bit better [22:35] and we need to make sure that the services will actually terminate on session logout [22:36] yeah, that's a bit more meh [22:41] so if we patch that into xfce4-session, then ppl cant deactivate indicators anymore, unless they uninstall them [22:41] they can also override the .conf files [22:41] or use gsettings to disable some of them [22:41] "...then ppl cant *easily* deactivate indicators anymore..." [22:42] it will be easy [22:42] after people have created tons of forum threads [22:42] :D [22:43] just copy&paste [22:43] what about patching -session to ignore the upstart session stuff? [22:45] basically hardcode the autostart launcher path [22:45] and not use any env var [22:46] sadly all the different solutions need testing [22:46] and we are running out of time [22:47] heading off to bed, night all [22:48] good night [23:16] alright, i can replicate the bug [23:27] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1302244 [23:27] Launchpad bug 1302244 in xfce4-power-manager (Ubuntu) "xfce4-power-manager-settings can not be launched after the session comes back from a suspension" [Undecided,New]