[00:14] <bluesabre> +1
[00:23] <jjfrv8> ochosi, I took a look at your light locker article
[00:23] <jjfrv8> the virtual terminal paragraph was over my head but otherwise I found it very understandable
[00:24] <jjfrv8> it helped me understand a lot of the discussion about it that has gone on here
[00:24] <ochosi> happy to hear
[00:24] <jjfrv8> I did make a couple of minor suggestions and submitted them for review
[00:25] <ochosi> to the article?
[00:25] <jjfrv8> yes
[00:26] <jjfrv8> I'm not sure if I did it right
[00:26] <ochosi> not sure either
[00:26] <ochosi> i for one didn't know you could add suggestions and reviews in wordpress
[00:27] <ochosi> to me it looks like you still have that page locked for editing
[00:27] <jjfrv8> just logged out
[00:29] <ochosi> i guess i gotta look at the history of the article to see your suggestions/changes
[00:31] <jjfrv8> yeah, if you browse Revisions, it looks like my edits are showing as the current revision
[00:31] <ochosi> well, yeah, cause there is no review function in wordpress
[00:32] <ochosi> putting the status to "pending review" is misleading
[00:32] <ochosi> hence i changed that
[00:33] <jjfrv8> I took a chance and hit the 'Submit for review' button. Didn't know what that would do but figured you could repair the damage :)
[00:33] <ochosi> sure, np
[00:34] <ochosi> you're a native speaker, aren't you?
[00:34] <jjfrv8> yes
[00:34] <ochosi> well nvm, it's still "its", not "it's"
[00:35] <ochosi> because it's possessive, not short for "it is"
[00:36] <ochosi> and afaik you can use integrate with "into"
[00:36] <ochosi> or we say "integrated in gnome shell"
[00:37] <jjfrv8> sure
[00:38] <ochosi> oh right, then WP was showing that messed up
[00:41] <Unit193> ochosi: I'd like the patch that magically turns header bars into normal menus. :P
[00:41] <Unit193> I can update from Xfwm master, sure.
[00:43] <ochosi> yeah, but that was a bit hacky iirc
[00:44] <ochosi> headerbars patch hasn't been merged yet, just fyi
[00:44] <Unit193> ...I think I'd prefer hacky to headerbars...
[00:45] <Unit193> ochosi: How would file-roller be changed with it?
[00:45] <ochosi> fileroller doesn't have a headerbar
[00:46] <ochosi> it uses the normal window-decoration
[00:46] <ochosi> it uses gnome's appmenu
[00:46] <ochosi> which is a different thing
[00:46] <Unit193> No, but it does have weird menus.
[00:46] <ochosi> i know
[00:46] <ochosi> we should report a bug...
[00:46] <Unit193> OK, is there anything that does have them?
[00:49] <ochosi> gthumb
[00:49] <ochosi> you'll see window-deco packed in window-deco
[00:49] <ochosi> looks awesome
[00:56] <Unit193> Not installed. \o/
[00:56] <Unit193> So, I suppose if it's a clean patch, sure.
[03:35] <GridCube> :D
[04:03] <pleia2> ochosi: it's a good post, I might convert some of the ()s to , though (I am also guilty of parathetical abuse, so I am aware ..see?)
[06:20] <jhenke> goooood morning
[09:41] <elfy> ochosi knome - got a this re the ibus issue " it's on my list for some time but I can't promise anything right now, as some other stuff is filling all my time with higher priority..."
[09:43] <ochosi> humm
[09:44] <ochosi> that's not very comforting news
[09:45] <knome> no, not really, but we should push it, because it's most probably a regression they introduced
[09:49] <jhenke> how about removing ibus for the moment? (RC is in one week!)
[09:49] <jhenke> I guess adding it back later is easier than a last minute removal
[09:50] <ochosi> yeah, i'd like to hear that suggestion from someone who really knows about the common use-cases/scenarios for ibus
[09:51] <ochosi> we might upset a lot of ppl by just dropping it – or not
[09:51] <ochosi> it seems to be a bit of a black box until now
[09:53] <jhenke> hmm, is shipping a broken feature worse than not shipping it?
[09:53] <ochosi> it's just broken by default, it's repairable by users from what i heard
[09:53] <jhenke> at least for me (german keyboard) the current bahviour is clearly a serious problem
[09:54] <jhenke> yes, but it gives a very bad first impression
[09:54] <jhenke> and I am not sure if the avarage users wants to dig into this
[09:54] <ochosi> i'm personally in favor of dropping ibus, but i'd like someone with more xp on the issue (than me) to give an educated opinion that we can follow
[09:55] <jhenke> well surly somebody longer than me here takes teh decision anyway
[09:55] <jhenke> just pointing out that the broken by default is in my eyes the worst possible state
[09:56] <jhenke> better to not ship it and have people install it themselves if needed
[09:56] <ochosi> i agree, the problem that i see is that many of us have spent lots of time and energy this cycle and are slowly burning up a bit
[09:56] <ochosi> so if you wanna take care of that issue, try to find someone proficient in ibus (e.g. the bug assignee) and get an opinion/explanation from him
[09:56] <ochosi> present it to us in some way and help us to take a decision
[09:58] <brainwash> ochosi: do we plan to add ali1234's title-less window decoration patch?
[09:58] <jhenke> I think elfy has better connection with the people for that
[09:59] <brainwash> you don't need any connections
[09:59] <ochosi> brainwash: if you're referring to the headerbar patch for xfwm4, then i don't think that has received enough testing (which is why i asked Unit193 to put it in his PPA so more people get to it)
[09:59] <brainwash> ochosi: see my PPA :)
[10:00] <brainwash> https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
[10:00] <ochosi> jhenke: yup, brainwash is right. you mostly need time/patience and a friendly attitude (bearing in mind that most ppl are doing this for free in their free time)
[10:00] <brainwash> ochosi: tested with gthumb and it works
[10:00] <jhenke> ochosi: that was clear already
[10:01] <jhenke> ;)
[10:01] <jhenke> still already knowing the people can be an asset
[10:01] <ochosi> yeah, but time and patience trumps that
[10:01] <ochosi> because that's how you get to know ppl
[10:01] <ochosi> anyway, no harm in asking others in here for help
[10:02] <ochosi> brainwash: good to hear, why not send calls for testing to the ML for stuff in your PPA?
[10:02] <brainwash> maybe
[10:02] <brainwash> a bug report would be helpful also
[10:02] <ochosi> yup
[10:03] <ochosi> and we'd need to add some more support for this in our themes
[10:03] <brainwash> really?
[10:03] <ochosi> iirc you can define additional tiles/pixmaps for the top border in headerbars
[10:03] <ochosi> yeah, otherwise it'll look slightly out of place
[10:03] <brainwash> any example app?
[10:03] <ochosi> anyway, i don't consider this branch critical for 14.04 because ubuntu-desktop folks patched away the headerbars in most apps
[10:04] <ochosi> from the screenshots ali1234 showed, this was general behavior
[10:04] <ochosi> just to get the same roundness/kerning in headerbar as in xfwm4
[10:04] <brainwash> tested gthumb with numix.. it was 95% black
[10:04] <ochosi> feel free to show me a screener of gthumb with that
[10:04] <ochosi> yeah, i only saw greybird/orion so far
[10:59] <bluesabre> meeting today?
[11:21] <guywithaquestion> Hello, when I started 14.04 this morning the volume indicator was missing
[12:02] <brainwash> guywithaquestion: can you please check settings manager > session and startup > autostart applications
[12:03] <brainwash> and see if indicator sound is enabled
[12:04] <guywithaquestion> brainwash: It was unchecked, what would make it so and can I start it without relogging?
[12:08] <brainwash> guywithaquestion: try the command "exo-open /etc/xdg/autostart/indicator-sound.desktop"
[12:08] <brainwash> but the entry shouldn't be unchecked in the first place
[12:08] <brainwash> I can confirm that it is (new user account)
[12:09] <guywithaquestion> brainwash: Okay, I re-checked it on mine. Starting the indicator gives some errors (like asking for gmusicbrowser.desktop) and sone dbus error
[12:14] <brainwash> guywithaquestion: but the indicator is now visible, right?
[12:14] <ochosi> hm, same here (sound-indicator gone after some updates)
[12:14] <guywithaquestion> brainwash: yeah
[12:15] <guywithaquestion> I'm lenny from yesterday by the way. Apparently it auto-changed to this
[12:16] <brainwash> do you want to file a bug report?
[12:18] <elfy> ochosi knome - I've approaced infinity and jibel in -release about this ibus thing - see if they can point us somewhere, but as it stands, knowing the little I do - I'm with ochosi in removing it
[12:18] <ochosi> (eh, no, i just realized that might be because i reset the session xfconf channel when doing some tests)
[12:18] <elfy> jhenke: no - not really I don't
[12:18] <ochosi> elfy: we could at least disable it by default (if that is easily doable)
[12:19] <elfy> yea 
[12:19] <elfy> if nothing get's done it time I guess we could turn it back on for .1 
[12:20] <ochosi> well, or whenever it works again..
[12:20] <elfy> and yes - I've lost the volume indicator as well 
[12:20] <ochosi> oh ok
[12:20] <ochosi> it really got disabled in autotstart
[12:20] <elfy> ochosi: yea - I kind of assume that it'll get sorted soon 
[12:20] <elfy> I've never seen in it autostart
[12:20] <elfy> s/it in
[12:20] <ochosi> it
[12:21] <ochosi> 's been there since they switched to upstart jobs to start indicators
[12:21] <elfy> mmm - well I never noticed it when I Was having issues, perhaps because it wasn't a clean install
[12:22] <brainwash> they changed the autostart launcher
[12:22] <ochosi> how exactly?
[12:22] <ochosi> OnlyShowIn=Unity? :)
[12:22] <brainwash> -NotShowIn=Unity;
[12:22] <brainwash> +OnlyShowIn=Unity;XFCE;GNOME;
[12:23] <brainwash> +AutostartCondition=GNOME3 unless-session gnome
[12:23] <brainwash> mmh
[12:23] <ochosi> so i guess that autostartcondition is what's messed up
[12:24] <brainwash> delete it and test :)
[12:24] <ochosi> are you telling me to test something instead of doing that yourself?
[12:25] <elfy> I couldn't even find the autostart launcher to delete it ... 
[12:26] <ochosi> bbl
[12:26] <elfy> I'm not even here
[12:28] <brainwash> ochosi: yeah, because I cannot right now
[12:38] <brainwash> that's strange, the launcher located in /usr/share/upstart/xdg/autostart seems to override the normal launcher
[12:39] <brainwash> and that launcher specifies to be hidden
[12:43] <bluesabre> activate it in session startup settings, and see which config is copied maybe?
[12:46] <brainwash> already tested
[12:47] <brainwash> I've changed the upstart launcher directly
[12:48] <bluesabre> did you change AutostartCondition?
[12:48] <brainwash> no, I removed the line "hidden=true"
[12:48] <brainwash> which unchecks the launcher
[12:49] <bluesabre> ah
[12:49] <bluesabre> seems like a silly setting to enable
[12:49] <brainwash> maybe it's not for the unity session
[12:49] <bluesabre> does that affect all flavors, including ubuntu?
[12:50] <brainwash> don't know
[12:50] <brainwash> all flavors? it's unity or xfce
[12:50] <bluesabre> ah
[12:51] <bluesabre> so, the two most important flavors ;)
[12:52] <brainwash> ah, changing the profile picture prompts me to enter my password
[12:52] <bluesabre> odd
[12:52] <brainwash> I guess any changes does
[12:52] <brainwash> maybe even when not changing anything at all? :D
[12:52] <bluesabre> it should just be first name, last name, office, home phones
[12:52] <brainwash> I'll test that
[12:53] <bluesabre> feel free to investigate and see what I messed up
[12:53] <brainwash> yep, opened the app and hit apply -> password prompt
[12:53] <bluesabre> I'll be offline until meeting time today
[12:54] <bluesabre> lovely
[12:54] <brainwash> not a big deal
[12:54] <brainwash> usually one does not change user details every day
[12:55] <bluesabre> yeah, it works correctly for me
[12:55] <bluesabre> how did you run/install it?
[12:56] <brainwash> settings manager and mugshot trunk
[12:57] <bluesabre> mugshot trunk, how did you install it?
[12:57] <brainwash> my ppa, daily recipe
[12:58] <brainwash> I'll install it manually from trunk
[12:59] <bluesabre> also try running from a terminal
[12:59] <bluesabre> mugshot -vv to get an idea of whats up
[12:59] <bluesabre> I'll be back later
[13:02] <brainwash> bluesabre: mmh, works fine now
[13:03] <brainwash> maybe my ppa one was outdated
[13:18] <lenny> Okay, I rebooted with indicator sound checked in the settings. It doesn't seem to have started though.
[13:19] <lenny> ** (process:2076): WARNING **: media-player-list-mpris.vala:66: unable to find application 'gmusicbrowser.desktop'
[13:19] <lenny> ** (process:2076): CRITICAL **: volume_control_set_volume_internal: assertion '_tmp1_ == PA_CONTEXT_READY' failed
[13:19] <lenny> (process:2076): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: g_object_unref: assertion 'G_IS_OBJECT (object)' failed
[13:37] <brainwash> lenny: works for me
[13:38] <lenny> could it be because I uninstalled gmusicbrowser? it seems like it's only a warning in those error messages
[13:39] <brainwash> that's only a warning, right
[13:39] <brainwash> but the 2nd line isn't
[13:39] <brainwash> did you disable pulseaudio?
[13:39] <lenny> no
[13:39] <brainwash> can you launch the indicator manually?
[13:40] <lenny> no
[13:40] <brainwash> didn't you say that the indicator was visible after starting it manually?
[13:41] <lenny> yes, it worked before rebooting
[13:41] <lenny> (and upgrading)
[13:41] <brainwash> oh
[13:41] <brainwash> any indicator related upgrades?
[13:41] <brainwash> or pulseaudio
[13:42] <lenny> there were loads of upgrades, I didn't check carefully :/
[13:43] <brainwash> mmh, I suggest that we bother the guys in #ubuntu-desktop
[13:43] <brainwash> especially tedg
[14:02] <lenny> that discussion went way above my head
[14:02] <brainwash> :D
[14:03] <brainwash> right, bad luck I guess
[14:03] <lenny> I don't see how it could be an upstart issue if I'm manually launching it with exo-open~ and it fails though
[14:03] <brainwash> those are two different issues I think
[14:03] <brainwash> it did work for you before the reboot
[14:04] <brainwash> so technically it should work always
[14:04] <brainwash> unless something changed again
[14:04] <lenny> yeah, I just did the update which made your desktop background go white
[14:04] <lenny> by just I mean before i rebooted
[14:05] <brainwash> this one is already fixed upstream, but it will take some time until the fix lands in 14.04
[14:05] <brainwash> sadly
[14:05] <brainwash> so enjoy your white background :)
[14:05] <lenny> My background came back after rebooting :p
[14:06] <brainwash> it should
[14:06] <lenny> it even made a quick appearance as it was shutting down :p
[14:09] <brainwash> so the problem with the disabled sound indicator is now, that we (xubuntu) need to fix it
[14:09] <brainwash> so that the user does not have to enable it manually
[14:10] <brainwash> but like you've already mentioned, maybe there is something else broken now too :D
[14:10] <lenny> yes, it's very reminiscent of the old release  ;)
[14:11] <lenny> The sound indicator only appeared after editing some file
[14:12] <brainwash> indeed
[14:13] <elfy> bluesabre: when I checked this ubuntu was not affected 
[14:15] <GridCube> :) hey elfy i did the upgrade yesterday
[14:15] <GridCube> it worked alright
[14:16] <GridCube> P: theming was broken but thats not something new, i had my panels and things modified so i selected the greybird themes again, should i report that as a bug?
[14:16] <GridCube> "theme is not selected after upgrade"?
[14:17] <elfy> thanks GridCube :)
[14:20] <GridCube> i noticed something today that i havent had the time to check tho. i woke up the computer today and it was on "suspension" state, you know when the drives and the monitor is shut down, not just locked like it was using xscreensaver, i knew it would change to lighlocker so that was not so surprising, but it going to full suspension was, so i wanted to set it up to never do that again and i could not log into the powermanager settings 'cos 
[14:20] <GridCube> it said those services where not running
[14:21] <GridCube> i will check again when i get home again and can test the computer, but i wanted to warn you about this, other thing was that it took a whole lot of time to log out, and when i clicked the shutdown icon again it told me something similar, that the shutdown service was not available or something like that, but then it went and log off, so i assume it was just taking its time to do so
[14:45] <elfy> sorry GridCube was afk
[14:45] <GridCube> dont worry :)
[14:46] <elfy> ok - read that now - no-one else has reported anything like that yet
[15:45] <Justanick> Is there a point, that xfce4-mixer has not been installed? LTS upgrade
[15:46] <ochosi> xfce4-mixer doesn't work with pulseaudio
[15:46] <ochosi> so it was replaced by pavucontrol (althouh i thought 12.04 also had pavucontrol)
[15:49] <Justanick> Does this also offer an applet?
[15:52] <ochosi> no, we use the sound indicator
[16:03] <Justanick> Okay. Thanks, it seems to work. 
[16:05] <Justanick> If I remove the xfce4-mixer package, also the option to add the volume control applet seems to be removed.
[16:16] <GridCube> Justanick, the sound indicator is integrated to pluging indicators addon
[16:28] <Justanick> GridCube: The neweset version is installed.
[16:29] <GridCube> then the sound indicator should be there.
[16:30] <Justanick> Should. ;) 
[16:31] <elfy> GridCube: there is a bug
[16:33] <Justanick> Any useful thing I can do?
[16:33] <GridCube> oh
[16:35] <elfy> Justanick: in what regard?
[16:36] <Justanick> Do you need any information added to the bug? Or is it known and just waiting for a fix?
[16:36] <elfy> no sure tbh - I only skimmed the backlog here
[16:38] <Justanick> Okay
[16:44] <Justanick> Thanks so far
[16:45] <elfy> GridCube: you need to turn sound indicator on in session - autostart it appears
[16:47] <ochosi> elfy: btw, happyaron (= aron xu) is OL right now, in case you have time/energy to chat him up about ibus (sry, gotta run again)
[16:49] <knome> i pinged him in PM and asked to join this channel
[16:49] <knome> so we have some public logs
[16:58] <slickymasterWork> knome: Not 100% sure I'll be able to be around for the meeting
[16:58] <knome> ok
[16:59] <knome> i guess it doesn't matter too much
[16:59] <knome> not much people have been around lately,
[16:59] <knome> there isn't anything to vote on
[16:59] <knome> there aren't issues where we need a biggish proportion of the team around
[16:59] <knome> just bugfixes and status updates
[16:59] <ochosi> yup
[17:00] <slickymasterWork> unfortunately I have a work meeting in about 10 minutes and don't know how long is going to take
[17:00] <slickymasterWork> I'll catch up on the logs, when I'll get home
[17:00] <slickymasterWork> bbl ->
[17:08] <brainwash> what do the lubuntu guys say about the ibus problem?
[17:08] <elfy> well the mail I sent to the list was roundly ignored - gilir is aware I mailed him 
[17:09] <elfy> and I think the only report of it on their tracker is the one I did when I checked to see if it affected them
[17:10] <brainwash> oh :)
[17:13] <elfy> yea - oh ... 
[17:14] <brainwash> at least it works fine in unity :D
[17:15] <brainwash> maybe the unity session just tells ibus to shut up
[18:10] <knome> meeting in 50mins... and again, anybody fancy chairing the meeting?
[18:11] <ochosi> i actually have to take off in 5mins :/
[18:11] <knome> that's fine...
[18:11] <knome> the meeting we will have today also looks like an easy one to chair
[18:12] <ochosi> yeah
[18:12] <ochosi> not too many goings on
[18:17] <jhenke> offical xubuntu team meeting?
[18:17] <knome> yes, at 19UTC
[18:17] <elfy> jhenke: it will be 
[18:18] <elfy> knome: I can't drive the bot nor the agenda and have a bone in my leg
[18:18] <knome> i have several bones in both of my legs - what's so special about that? ;P
[18:19] <elfy> you're not a parent then ... 
[18:19] <jhenke> free to join for everybody, respective can everybody speak there?
[18:19] <elfy> THAT is the excuse for not doing things - remember it :)
[18:19] <knome> jhenke, absolutely
[18:19] <knome> jhenke, the "official" name of the meeting is "xubuntu community meeting"
[18:19] <knome> jhenke, only voting on some specific issues is restricted for the team, and that's always explicitly mentioned
[18:20] <jhenke> I see, proably still most of the attendes are those who also normally contribute?
[18:20] <knome> pretty much so
[18:20] <jhenke> in #ubuntu-meeting?
[18:20] <knome> no, on this channel
[18:20] <jhenke> okay
[18:20] <elfy> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[18:20] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings for the agenda and other info
[18:21] <elfy> ha ha 
[18:21] <knome> elfy, congrats ;)
[18:21] <elfy> super speedy elfy 
[18:23] <jhenke> thanks guys, good to get the info redundand ;)
[18:28] <Unit193> Wow, this looks to be a loooong meeting. :P
[18:38] <elfy> brainwash: was just about to do that :p
[18:54] <Unit193> [18:59] <pleia2> o/
[19:00] <elfy> tea's cold brb
[19:00] <pleia2> hehe
[19:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 19:00:26 2014 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[19:00] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[19:01] <pleia2> Our last meeting info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-03-27
[19:01] <knome> pleia2, <3
[19:01] <pleia2> #topic #Team Updates
[19:01] <pleia2> #topic Team Updates
[19:02] <pleia2> (we'll talk about the ibus thing later)
[19:02] <pleia2> any updates?
[19:02] <knome> i don't have much updates
[19:02] <knome> #info Wallpaper is still waiting for an upload
[19:02] <pleia2> #info ochosi drafted post about screen locker
[19:02] <pleia2> those with access, review would be appreciated :)
[19:03] <knome> #info knome has worked on the website code a bit and planning to land a new revision to production before release
[19:03] <knome> i've reviewed that article once, can do again when/if more changes are introduced
[19:03] <elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Image testing 64bit - 2
[19:03] <elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 32bit - 5 total incl 3 LTS to LTS
[19:03] <elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Upgrade testing 64bit - 7 total incl 5 LTS to LTS
[19:03] <elfy> #info [xubuntu-qa] Repeating upgrade test call - including -users
[19:03] <pleia2> \o/
[19:03] <knome> cool, better than i thought ;)
[19:03] <knome> but still room for improvement
[19:03] <elfy> pleia2: I looked too - did as I promised ochosi and added a bit re screensaver and ligtlocker
[19:04] <pleia2> elfy: oh good, those were good additions
[19:04] <elfy> knome: yea - as I said I'll call again and include -users this time
[19:04] <pleia2> any other updates?
[19:04] <knome> well, people have worked on bugs
[19:05] <knome> i can't see much other news really
[19:05]  * pleia2 nods
[19:05] <bluesabre> o/
[19:05] <pleia2> #topic IBus issue update
[19:05] <knome> hey bluesabre 
[19:05] <bluesabre> hey everyone
[19:05] <pleia2> I chatted with knome and elfy about this this morning, elfy is following up with a couple folks dholbach recommended talking to
[19:05] <pleia2> welcome bluesabre 
[19:06] <bluesabre> I'm partially here :)
[19:06] <knome> bluesabre, tell us some tips to being in multiple places at once after the meeting please ;)
[19:06] <elfy> currently talking to seb bacher 
[19:06] <pleia2> elfy: yay!
[19:06] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ibus/+bug/1284635
[19:07] <elfy> seb128> elfy, I guess if I say 'patches are welcome' it doesn't help you?
[19:07] <jhenke> is there a realistic chance the issue get fixed before april 17th?
[19:07] <pleia2> the bug in question, which pretty much broke on all the flavors
[19:07] <knome> except kubuntu ;)
[19:08] <knome> jhenke, it's really hard to assess that, depends how seriously canonical employees are taking the issue (and the policy to have to fix what you broke, even if it doesn't affect you)
[19:09] <jhenke> knome okay, but I guess that is the core question about the issue
[19:09] <Unit193> Could just drop it like a hot potato.
[19:10] <knome> we can avoid the issue by not seeding ibus by default, but that might make some other people less happy
[19:10] <pleia2> what is it needed for?
[19:10] <jhenke> I think some languages, especially asian ones, need it to write their letters
[19:11] <jhenke> e.g. chinese letters, but also vietnamse can be written by it
[19:11] <pleia2> ah, yeah that's important
[19:11] <jhenke> as those languages do not nessesary have all their letters mapped to keybard keys
[19:12] <pleia2> the rest of the Ubuntu CC will help nudge this along if elfy hits a wall
[19:12] <pleia2> anything else on this topic?
[19:13] <jhenke> well it seriously breaks xubuntu on default for everybody
[19:13] <jhenke> but I guess that is known...
[19:13]  * jhenke hides
[19:15] <pleia2> indeed, it's bad
[19:15] <elfy> can those with access - give the QA recap blog article a once over - it's done - except for last minute number crunching
[19:15] <pleia2> elfy: can they revert the patch that broke it and make them come up with another solution? :)
[19:15] <bluesabre> elfy: I'll try to take a look tonight
[19:16] <elfy> cheers
[19:16] <pleia2> thanks for chasing this down, elfy 
[19:16] <pleia2> #topic Other business
[19:17] <pleia2> anything else?
[19:17] <brainwash> they also changed indicator-sound, so it's now unchecked in autostart applications and the user needs to enable it, otherwise it won't launch automatically on session start
[19:17] <elfy> we might return to it shortly ... 
[19:17] <pleia2> "they"?
[19:18] <brainwash> indicator devs
[19:18] <brainwash> ubuntu guys
[19:18] <brainwash> "they"
[19:18] <knome> why?
[19:18] <brainwash> I don't know
[19:18] <bluesabre> definitely not to troll us...
[19:18] <pleia2> lol
[19:18] <bluesabre> but since xfce and unity are the only ones that use indicator-sound... it seems odd
[19:19] <bluesabre> (to my understanding)
[19:19] <brainwash> we should either stop using the upstart user session or use upstart to launch the indicator stack
[19:20]  * Unit193 is still confused as to why we use the upstart user session.
[19:20] <brainwash> or blacklist the upstart launcher for indicator-sound
[19:20] <brainwash> it's complicated
[19:21] <brainwash> Unit193: because we did not tell them, that we don't want to use it
[19:21] <Unit193> brainwash: And the benefit of using it is?  To restart things if they crash?
[19:22] <brainwash> user upstart job management
[19:22] <brainwash> not sure if xubuntu/xfce actually benefits from it
[19:25] <pleia2> anything else we need to talk about?
[19:26] <pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
[19:26] <bluesabre> quick q
[19:26] <pleia2> sure
[19:27] <bluesabre> has anybody made progress on the ubiquity wallpaper?  I think its assigned to xnox, right?
[19:27] <bluesabre> or has that already been discussed? :)
[19:27] <brainwash> ochosi has added a comment to the bug report
[19:27] <elfy> bug number ?
[19:28] <brainwash> bug 1284910
[19:28] <lenny> critical? :P
[19:29] <pleia2> it does look pretty bad
[19:29] <bluesabre> we're quite partial to our wallpapers :)
[19:29] <pleia2> not thrilled with so obviously shipping debian branding in xubuntu either
[19:30] <Unit193> Debian wallpaper doesn't really bother me, kind of funny.
[19:30] <lenny> dpkg -l | grep debian
[19:30] <lenny> ii  debianutils                                 4.4                                    amd64        Miscellaneous utilities specific to Debian
[19:30] <lenny> ii  gstreamer0.10-fluendo-mp3:amd64             0.10.23.debian-3                       amd64        Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 0.10 plugin
[19:30] <lenny> ii  gstreamer1.0-fluendo-mp3:amd64              0.10.23.debian-3                       amd64        Fluendo mp3 decoder GStreamer 1.0 plugin
[19:30] <elfy> is the installed wallpaper issue effectively the same one ?
[19:30] <lenny> ii  intltool-debian                             0.35.0+20060710.1                      all          Help i18n of RFC822 compliant config files
[19:30] <pleia2> I love debian, but we aren't debian, it is bad for both of us
[19:30] <lenny> ii  libcdparanoia0:amd64                        3.10.2+debian-11                       amd64        audio extraction tool for sampling CDs (library)
[19:30] <lenny> ii  libgdome2-0                                 0.8.1+debian-6                         amd64        DOM level2 library for accessing XML files
[19:30] <lenny> ii  libparse-debianchangelog-perl               1.2.0-1ubuntu1                         all          parse Debian changelogs and output them in other formats
[19:30] <lenny> ii  libparted0debian1:amd64                     2.3-18                                 amd64        disk partition manipulator - shared library
[19:30] <lenny> ii  libsdl1.2debian:amd64                       1.2.15-8ubuntu1                        amd64        Simple DirectMedia Layer
[19:30] <elfy> lenny: did you really have to do that :|
[19:30] <lenny> ii  python-debian                               0.1.21+nmu2ubuntu2                     all          Python modules to work with Debian-related data formats
[19:30] <pleia2> lenny: please stop
[19:31] <lenny> sorry, didn't mean to do all in seperate
[19:31] <pleia2> that's not "obvious"
[19:31] <pleia2> a big wallpaper in our installer is
[19:31] <lenny> yeah, I guess
[19:31] <jhenke> lenny we all know that there are plenty of packets with debian references, not the poin here
[19:32] <bluesabre> first impressions are important
[19:32]  * pleia2 nods
[19:32] <Unit193> Sadly, yes, yes they are.
[19:33] <bluesabre> ok, well I don't have anything else to add
[19:33] <pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
[19:33] <knome> thanks pleia2 
[19:33] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[19:33] <knome> next meeting?
[19:33] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Apr  3 19:33:29 2014 UTC.  
[19:33] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-04-03-19.00.moin.txt
[19:33] <knome> :P
[19:33] <elfy> thanks pleia2 
[19:33] <bluesabre> thanks pleia2
[19:33] <bluesabre> bbl
[19:33] <jhenke> thanks pleia2
[19:34] <pleia2> knome: sorry :)
[19:34] <pleia2> next week?
[19:34] <pleia2> I won't be around :P
[19:34]  * pleia2 pycon
[19:34] <bluesabre> jealous
[19:34] <bluesabre> :)
[19:35] <pleia2> I'm excited, it'll be my first time
[19:35] <Noskcaj_> I can't attend meetings till the end of the year now. Daylight savings time is gone
[19:35] <pleia2> even if I have to do booth duty :)
[19:36] <jhenke> I think next week is the RC date?
[19:36] <brainwash> just a note: please the stuff from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
[19:36] <brainwash> various fixes for different apps
[19:36] <Justanick> Is there a browsable list of known bugs/not well working xubuntu functions?
[19:37] <brainwash> Justanick: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
[19:44] <knome> elfy, want to run the same test i'm doing?
[19:44] <elfy> I can certainly try :)
[19:45] <knome> i'll start with zsyncing the latest iso
[19:45] <Justanick> Against which package has it to be fill, if the "Aero snapping" of the xfce4-terminal is not working as expected?
[19:45] <elfy> if I can work out which ones to grab ... 
[19:46] <brainwash> Justanick: not as expected?
[19:46] <knome> you either want *amd64* or *i386*
[19:46] <knome> you can probably guess which you want :P
[19:47] <elfy> from the ftp page?
[19:47] <ali1234> xfce4-terminal doesn't always play nice with snapping because it can only be resized in increments of 1 character
[19:47] <knome> elfy, yep
[19:47] <ali1234> that can cause anything that tries to rezie windows to blow up
[19:47] <elfy> knome: this package?	gir1.2-ibus-1.0_1.5.5-1_amd64.deb 
[19:47] <knome> and everything else with amd64
[19:48] <knome> hmm, wait
[19:48] <elfy> ok
[19:48] <Unit193> elfy: dpkg -l | grep 1.5.5-1ubuntu3  and replace all those with debian versions, generally.
[19:48] <elfy> okey doke 
[19:48] <knome> well there you go.
[19:48] <Justanick> brainwash: If I let snap it to the right or left side of the desktop, there is left free space at the bottom. 
[19:48] <elfy> :)
[19:48] <elfy> got it installing now 
[19:48] <Justanick> ali1234: That may be the point.
[19:48] <Unit193> The binary packages are listed at the bottom left of: http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ibus.html
[19:49] <brainwash> Justanick: so it is working as intended :)
[19:49] <elfy> Unit193: aah yes - thanks
[19:49] <Justanick> Yes.
[19:49] <Unit193> Sure.
[19:49] <brainwash> ali1234: I've subscribed you to the xfwm4 bug report :P
[19:50] <ali1234> if it's on launchpad then i'm already subscribed
[19:50] <brainwash> ok :)
[19:53] <ali1234> btw regarding titleless window, the screenshots i posted were all numix
[19:54] <ali1234> https://plus.google.com/117474986382867317779/posts/QMZj3cUP6fT
[19:57] <Unit193> ali1234: How hackish was the patch that forces old menus?
[19:57] <ali1234> you mean headeraway?
[19:57] <ali1234> incredibly hackish
[19:57] <Unit193> Darn.
[19:58] <ali1234> gtk developers would probably burn me if they caught me
[19:58]  * Unit193 doesn't care about GTK devs, they're all mental anyway.
[19:58] <ali1234> https://github.com/ali1234/headeraway/blob/master/preload.c
[19:58] <elfy> said the kettle ... 
[19:58] <ali1234> it's a preload library... dynamically patches gtk at runtime
[19:59] <ali1234> you call header_bar_new and it gives you back a gtk_box collection instead
[20:00] <ali1234> in a sense it is not more hackish than the way ubuntu menuproxy works :)
[20:00] <Unit193> Doesn't sound too bad, if more than gthumb needed it I'd use it (once I figured out how. :P )
[20:01] <ali1234> you compile it into a .so using the makefile then you do LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/library.so gthumb
[20:02] <ali1234> or if you are totally crazy put the variable into your environment
[20:04] <Unit193> Thanks, this sounds like fun. :D
[20:12] <elfy> knome: well - I did that - get the same problem :(
[20:12] <elfy> so I wonder why, if debian are using xfce as default that it's not shown up there
[20:15] <elfy> knome: possibly it is https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=734985
[20:16] <knome> the reporter has older ibus versions though
[20:16] <elfy> yea - but it's definitely the same issue 
[20:18] <elfy> and the link to the debian forum - guy is using xfce
[20:20] <knome> hmh, not sure
[20:20] <knome> xkboptions seems to be irrelevant to kb layout
[20:21] <elfy> yep - so no further forward really
[20:21] <knome> nope
[20:21] <knome> expect you are able to reproduce with debian packages in ubuntu
[20:21] <elfy> did you get them to install at all
[20:21] <knome> i haven't got so far
[20:21] <elfy> yes - same issue with debian packages in todays daily
[20:22] <knome> i guess the next thing is install and boot debian
[20:22] <knome> and see if you have a similar problem
[20:22] <knome> though i guess the installation process is different
[20:22] <knome> might still be worth checking
[20:23] <elfy> not a problem - I can do that 
[20:23] <Unit193> Other than the fact I have no idea what the problem is, I do have a Debian VM.
[20:23] <elfy> testing or stable
[20:23] <Unit193> Erm, testing or unstable.
[20:24] <elfy> Unit193: ok - we're trying to see if the same error is there as here for bug 1284635
[20:26] <Unit193> elfy: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2536196/debian7testing.ova.gz
[20:26] <elfy> what's that?
[20:26] <elfy> 3Gb file ... 
[20:26] <Unit193> Debian testing, already setup with Xfce and stuff.  US defaults though.
[20:27] <elfy> yea - I want to install it with a UK keyboard layout 
[20:27] <elfy> thanks :)
[20:28] <jhenke> good night folks
[20:29] <elfy> night jhenke 
[20:30] <Unit193> Installing ibus now, already have the system set to en_GB.
[20:32] <elfy> ta
[20:34] <Unit193> Hah, "Wastebasket" :P
[20:34] <elfy> :D
[20:34] <ali1234> "Rubbish Bin"
[20:35] <elfy> ali1234: in Places I see Wastebasket, in Thunar Rubbish Bin
[20:35] <ali1234> if you are using en_GB and you see "Wastebasket" it's a bug
[20:35] <ali1234> places plugin has this bug
[20:35] <elfy> I have that bug 
[20:42] <elfy> Unit193: so? if kbd layout is UK what happens on the desktop - sets to US?
[20:44] <Unit193> (I had to remove ibus again, to see what keys might be different and if I actually hit the bug or have no idea what I'm doing/know what keys are supposed to be different. :P )
[20:45] <Unit193> Yeah, ibus screwed up #
[20:46] <elfy> this is not what we wanted ;)
[20:47] <Unit193> Indeed not, would have been nicer if it was an Ubuntu bug.
[20:47] <Justanick> With the last updates for a few minutes the wallpaper has been reset with a grey colour.
[20:47] <Unit193> ^
[20:48] <elfy> Justanick: yes - known issue 
[20:48] <Unit193> Justanick: Open terminal: killall xfdesktop   and it's fixed.
[20:48] <elfy> bug 1302101
[20:48] <elfy> Unit193: yep  - would have been better for us 
[20:49] <Unit193> elfy: You want to tell seb or confirm?
[20:50] <Justanick> Okay
[20:52] <elfy> confirming
[20:53] <elfy> at a guess I still think it is that bug I found on debian ^^
[20:56] <Unit193> elfy: Or, that it doesn't honor the file /etc/default/keyboard at all.
[20:56] <brainwash> wow, a "new" hint :)
[20:56] <elfy> no idea - as knome said that doesn't appear to do much 
[20:56] <brainwash> we need to fix this stupid thing
[20:57] <brainwash> ibus exit
[20:57] <elfy> that's not what knome said ... 
[20:57] <knome> :P
[20:57] <elfy> the bug is about xkboptions - this issue appears to be about xkblayout
[20:58] <Unit193> elfy: I was pointing at the file, not the specific line. :D
[20:58] <elfy> bah 
[20:58] <elfy> so I have no idea what I set the password too lol
[20:58] <knome> hah
[20:59] <Unit193> wheresmybloomintea
[20:59] <elfy> lol
[21:01] <elfy> and the keyboard isn't working at all in vbox debian recovery mode ... 
[21:02] <elfy> too late for mucking about - reinstall it with password of sodthis
[21:16] <elfy> ok 
[21:17] <elfy> knome: so installed debian - and # is # and in the right place when I have logged in
[21:17] <elfy> but I bet that's the older ibus
[21:18] <elfy> sigh - said it was too late :(
[21:19] <elfy> really didn't want to have to do a long winded install ... 
[21:19] <knome> hm?
[21:20] <elfy> that was time well saved :|
[21:22] <elfy> installing testing now 
[21:33] <elfy> knome: so - assuming that once I've got this installed and confirm the issue is there - a) tell seb b) we'll need to decide what we do
[21:33] <knome> we could/should ask the debian maintainers if they have time to look at it
[21:35] <elfy> until I know for sure the issue exists there it's all guesswork - but given that debian ship with xfce as default I don't understand what they're not seeing the issue 
[21:35] <knome> mh
[21:36] <ochosi> does debian install/use ibus by default?
[21:36] <elfy> I can't answer that ochosi 
[21:37] <ochosi> just infering that this could be why nobody else has noticed
[21:37] <ochosi> i also don't have any clue how ibus is configured by default
[21:38] <ochosi> and whether we should pro-actively do something about that
[21:48] <knome> i'm off for tonight, see you all later
[21:48] <knome> elfy, let's be in touch tomorrow
[21:48] <elfy> ok
[21:49] <elfy> working till 12UTC - will post in here later though
[22:21] <elfy> knome: ok so - debian testing does not use ibus by default
[22:21] <elfy> install ibus into it and then # becomes \
[22:21] <ochosi> huh
[22:21] <ochosi> well that's good to know
[22:21] <elfy> yep
[22:23] <elfy> ochosi: that was were seb left us - checking to see what the state of it in debian was - whether it was an ubuntu change that was the issue - which it seems to not be, the chances of getting it looked at now are pretty slim I think
[22:23] <ochosi> yup
[22:23] <ochosi> i read the backlog
[22:23] <ochosi> so the course is clear then
[22:23] <ochosi> either remove it or find a way to disable it by default
[22:23] <elfy> yep - seems to be 
[22:23] <ochosi> and blog about how ppl who need it can get it back
[22:23]  * ochosi shrugs
[22:23] <elfy> yea 
[22:24] <elfy> it's a known issue - so it will be on there
[22:24] <ochosi> now we only need to find a dev/uploader to execute those changes for us
[22:24] <elfy> yea ... 
[22:24] <elfy> can dholbach do that?
[22:24] <ochosi> i already told knome, but from tomorrow onwards i won't be around much until the release
[22:24] <ochosi> he can, but he needs at least a MR
[22:24] <elfy> ok - thanks for letting me know
[22:25] <ochosi> i guess we have two options
[22:25] <elfy> right ok - so dholbach will do it I am sure - pleia2 and I were talking to him about this issue earlier
[22:25] <ochosi> 1) drop it from the seed (i.e. not install it anymore by default)
[22:25] <ochosi> 2) find a way to disable it by default
[22:26] <ochosi> do you have any idea how to achieve 2) without doing 1)?
[22:26] <elfy> absolutely none at all 
[22:27] <ochosi> me neither
[22:27] <elfy> it's all gone a bit horrible in the last 100metres here ... 
[22:27] <elfy> I'd favour us not seeding it 
[22:27] <ochosi> yeah, the indicators not autostarting anymore is also nasty
[22:27] <elfy> yea - that's what I mean 
[22:28] <elfy> and the wallpapers
[22:28] <ochosi> yup, it looked like a solid release
[22:28] <elfy> and the new white thing with icons
[22:28] <ochosi> and we got a lot done
[22:28] <ochosi> new white thing?
[22:28] <elfy> absolutely did 
[22:28] <elfy> the bug when you chane icons/themes 
[22:28] <ochosi> and then what happens?
[22:28] <ochosi> desktop wallpaper disappears?
[22:29] <elfy> you know about this - you confirmed it
[22:29] <elfy> yea
[22:29] <elfy> that one 
[22:29] <ochosi> ah right, but that's fixed already
[22:29] <ochosi> only a matter of getting the fix uploaded
[22:29] <elfy> ok - not seen the fix come through
[22:29] <ochosi> so i'm not worried about that at all
[22:29] <elfy> :)
[22:29] <ochosi> yeah, not uploaded yet
[22:29] <ochosi> there might be a release tomorrow or on the weekend
[22:29] <ochosi> then the upload
[22:29] <ochosi> so that's straightforward
[22:29] <elfy> so ibus seems to be a case of not using it - simplish I assume
[22:30] <elfy> the indicators is the nasty one now I think
[22:30] <ochosi> yeah, if we get lots of complaints then we'll at least know that it *is* used by ppl for somethign :D
[22:30] <elfy> :)
[22:31] <ochosi> brainwash: have you tried to add that loginctl command yet?
[22:31] <elfy> right - I've got to crash now - night all 
[22:31] <ochosi> night elfy 
[22:31] <elfy> ochosi: I'll see you when I see you then I guess :)
[22:32] <brainwash> good night
[22:32] <brainwash> ochosi: hardcoded?
[22:33] <brainwash> or via a wrapper or autostart entry?
[22:33] <brainwash> see http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lightdm-gtk-greeter-team/lightdm-gtk-greeter/trunk/view/head:/src/lightdm-gtk-greeter.c#L389
[22:34] <ochosi> well how should i know what you've tested?
[22:34] <ochosi> just tell what you did test so far :p
[22:34] <brainwash> opened a terminal and typed the command
[22:34] <ochosi> autostart entry seems to make sense, because then ppl have a way of disabling all of them (instead of only hiding all of them). that's a bit better
[22:35] <brainwash> and we need to make sure that the services will actually terminate on session logout
[22:36] <ochosi> yeah, that's a bit more meh
[22:41] <ochosi> so if we patch that into xfce4-session, then ppl cant deactivate indicators anymore, unless they uninstall them
[22:41] <brainwash> they can also override the .conf files
[22:41] <brainwash> or use gsettings to disable some of them
[22:41] <ochosi> "...then ppl cant *easily* deactivate indicators anymore..."
[22:42] <brainwash> it will be easy
[22:42] <brainwash> after people have created tons of forum threads
[22:42] <brainwash> :D
[22:43] <brainwash> just copy&paste
[22:43] <brainwash> what about patching -session to ignore the upstart session stuff?
[22:45] <brainwash> basically hardcode the autostart launcher path
[22:45] <brainwash> and not use any env var
[22:46] <brainwash> sadly all the different solutions need testing
[22:46] <brainwash> and we are running out of time
[22:47] <ochosi> heading off to bed, night all
[22:48] <brainwash> good night
[23:16] <gridcube_> alright, i can replicate the bug
[23:27] <gridcube_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-power-manager/+bug/1302244