[04:14] <Mirv> stochastic: zequence: if anyone of you happens to have upload rights to pitivi then running requestsync from ubuntu-archive-tools would be nice, but otherwise I'll try to find someone to sponsor
[04:14] <Mirv> the ubuntu specific change isn't needed when demoting to universe at the same time, so sync is enough
[05:31] <OvenWerk1> stochastic: my experience in video editing is very small.... unless you count tape editing.
[05:33] <OvenWerk1> my first thought is that we have three video editors already, how is this different or better? Asking from a straight I don't know enough to say POV.
[05:33] <OvenWerk1> It is true that one of them is there because it does other things first (blender).
[05:35] <Mirv> stochastic: zequence: pitivi handled by infinity! \o/ 0.93-3 now in trusty
[05:36] <OvenWerk1> We do have more than one audio editing set up too.
[05:36] <stochastic> OvenWerk1, okay, I'll keep that in mind for future reference - my personal opinion is the PiTiVi is going to show a very large improvement in the near future (especially with 0.93 now in the repos, thanks Mirv!)
[05:37] <OvenWerk1> We may be able to drop one of the others though.
[05:38] <stochastic> Well certainly not Blender
[05:38] <OvenWerk1> We are also doing more with user choice on what parts to install in the first place
[05:39] <stochastic> OpenShot vs. PiTiVi could be a discussion for 14.10
[05:39] <OvenWerk1> openshot was the one I have the most problem with
[05:39] <OvenWerk1> I end up using kdenlive
[05:40] <OvenWerk1> But that could be just me not knowing what I am doing
[05:40] <stochastic> I have the least troubles with OpenShot - provided I save often.  However it's been a long time since I've tried PiTiVi in a robust project.
[05:41] <Mirv> my 0.1 cents is that everything crashes (openshot, pitivi, kdenlive) but I liked pitivi during 12.04 when I learned which settings to use to have it working. that's why I have high hopes for the new Pitivi series now that the development has picked up again.
[05:41] <stochastic> I'm personally in favour of choice for the end user - at least until a clear winner emerges as the go-to program (such as Ardour or Audacity is in their fields)
[05:41] <OvenWerk1> Anyway, I am not going to say yes or no just because I know I am not qualified.
[05:42] <stochastic> ^^ yeah Mirv, I'm very encouraged by the development pace of PiTiVi.
[05:43] <Mirv> somewhere after 12.10 pitivi regressed, since it saw no changes and apparently some minor GStreamer 0.10 series changes made it worse
[05:43]  * stochastic does't know why he's in the habit of spelling it as PiTiVi rather than Pitivi
[05:43] <Mirv> stochastic: it was originally called PiTiVi :) I think it was deemed too complicated and renamed later.
[05:44] <stochastic> ahh that explains it
[05:44]  * stochastic feels like an old fart now
[05:44] <OvenWerk1> Anyway, I need to go away again. Great to have people moving video forward.
[05:44] <`Fibz> i end up using both openshot and kdenlive
[05:44] <`Fibz> almost every time 
[06:14] <zequence> stochastic: OvenWerk1: One thing I'd like to look at this coming cycle is our metas. Debian has started their own set of metas called multimedia-, which are also available in our repos. I don't know what they're policy is for them - currently they don't look that well outlined (something we could help them with).
[06:15] <zequence> Until now, there has been the philosophy that we only ship one enough applications to support any imaginable workflow, and not have duplicate choices
[06:15] <zequence> And, I suppose that is a good thing
[06:16] <zequence> But, we could make the selection more sophisticated. Make it really simple for newbies on one hand, and giving the ability of choice for people accustomed to Linux on the other.
[06:17] <zequence> I have some ideas about this, that I'd like to present later.
[06:18] <`Fibz> sorry to butt in, i think the current menu based "Extra So and so Applications" works well
[06:18] <zequence> In the latest release, we have the plugin that lets the user choose packages individually from our metas. The plugin is so, so. I'd like to work on enhancing it. Also, include the source for our ubuntustudio-installer
[06:19] <`Fibz> could you provide me with more info on this? i did not see this when i upgraded some of my systems to 14.04
[06:19] <zequence> `Fibz: Have you tried them on our latest release?
[06:20] <`Fibz> wrong channel sorry
[06:20] <`Fibz> i've been watching you talk about them but when i installed, i saw nothing about them, just the regular install process
[06:20] <zequence> I need to test them. Not sure they work right now (nothing happened last time I clicked one)
[06:21] <zequence> `Fibz: It's there. Just use a recent image for a fresh install
[06:21] <`Fibz> i'll try that thank you
[06:25] <zequence> stochastic: OvenWerk1: I think it would be a good idea to consider making all available multimedia packages browsable and installable in some way, for our image and the installer program.
[06:26] <zequence> ..not only the default set that we provide in our metas
[06:28] <zequence> The menu items "Extra <workflow>" is a good step towards that direction. But, I think we could do more for that.
[06:30] <stochastic> hmm, I'm of the opinion that giving new users too much choice will result in too much bulk added to their systems and program menus that confuse and hinder them
[06:31] <`Fibz> i did that
[06:31] <zequence> stochastic: As I said, we make it easier for new users, but, we also provide choice
[06:31] <zequence> There's no conflict between the two
[06:31] <stochastic> new users will invariably select 'yes I want all' so perhaps we could call it "advanced configuration"
[06:31] <zequence> Yeah
[06:32] <zequence> One thing I'd really like to do is add a new netinstall image
[06:33] <zequence> The DVD is getting quite large, and most people will only need a fragment of it
[06:34] <zequence> The DVD could be used both as a tool and a showcase, while the netinstall would be the smarter choice for installations
[06:35] <zequence> And, so, the DVD should cover all workflows, while the installation itself could provide more choices
[06:35] <zequence> How exactly we do that, I don't know. We could introduce new metas, called ubuntustudio-audio-all, etc
[06:36] <zequence> And since debian mutimedia is doing their own metas now, I think it would be good to look at if they serve the same purpose as ours do, and in that case consider working on those, instead of ours, and more or less let our metas depend on theirs
[06:37] <zequence> But, from what I've seen so far, their metas don't seem to fit our philosophy
[06:39] <zequence> Anyway, those are some thoughts I've had on that for a while. 
[06:39] <stochastic> I think we should maintain our own metas rather than take on deb-multimedia's metas - it will give us some freedom for user responsiveness and new philosophy design
[06:41] <zequence> I think that depends on how we could influence Debian Multimedia, and how alike we think. I'm not sure they have a clear philosophy for their metas yet.
[06:42] <zequence> So, I think it's quite possible to have a big influence on that. And, if one would establish a clear philosophy for their metas, which coincides with ours, we would make maintenance easier for us
[06:43] <zequence> Not saying I believe it will happen, but as with anything, if it can be done upstream, it should
[06:44] <zequence> I just realized I hadn't changed the default background for our lightdm theme. We still have one UIFe
[06:45] <cub_work> Hi all
[06:46] <cub_work> just to pitch in a bit on Pitivi and several video tools
[06:46] <cub_work> I've tried them all before as well as Cinelerra
[06:47] <cub_work> Nowadays I mainly use Kdenlive and I know a Swedish film maker who is doing his latest project all in FOSS, that also tried several video editing software but chose Kdenlive in the end as the best working tool
[06:47] <cub_work> I think it's good to have Pitivi 0.93 instead of 0.15 which wouldn't even import any of my video files
[06:48] <cub_work> I ran 0.93 yesterday and everything imported just fine, without having to install any extra codecs or anything. That said I was quite confused when trying to edit though, despite their slogan that you won't need a manual because it
[06:48] <zequence> Probably, we don't need pitivi in our meta, but perhaps it will become a good choice instead of kdenlive in the future?
[06:49] <cub_work> 's so intuitive. Maybe I'm just stupid.:)
[06:49] <cub_work> I would say OpenShot and Pitivi are similar as of today
[06:49] <zequence> Ah, well, it's like with Logic on Mac. Not logical at all
[06:49] <zequence> Ah
[06:49] <zequence> So, more of a possible replacement for openshot? openshot seems ok. I've only used it a little.
[06:49] <cub_work> Kdenlive to me seems to have a bit more advanced editing features, but still not as complicated as Cinelerra
[06:50] <zequence> We have a problem with package selection. We don't have a good system for that
[06:50] <cub_work> I think so, but I haven't used openShot or pitivi that much, since they couldn't do what I was trying to do
[06:51] <cub_work> exactly, it comes down to the old to-do thing to go through the software, which are similar, which are necessary and so on
[06:52] <cub_work> I'm not sure about the development of Kdenlive? I haven't seen much happening for quite some time
[06:53] <cub_work> hmm though now there was an update on their site just last week saying they would be more active. :)
[07:01] <cub_work> Anyways, I'm a bit sad about my work in Ubuntu Studio, I had such high hopes to get involved for 14.04. But instead I've been tied up in life even more than before.
[07:02] <cub_work> Now, back to work!
[07:07] <zequence> bug 1304214