[00:20] <rick_h_> hatch: around?
[00:21] <hatch> I am
[00:21] <hatch> in OSX land again though
[00:21] <rick_h_> hatch: quick ?, do we still need the kanban card for 'remove viewmode'?
[00:21] <rick_h_> we're just working aroud viewmode in the current plan right?
[00:21] <hatch> correct, that card will just go 'poof'
[00:21] <rick_h_> ok, going to poof it
[00:21] <hatch> poof away!
[00:22] <rick_h_> thanks, no more thinking about work tonight carry on :)
[00:22] <hatch> haha - I'm writing the blog post on how to install trusty on a macbook
[00:22] <hatch> it's lengthy
[00:22] <hatch> now that i have mine purring
[02:09] <hatch> jujugui anyone around to proof my blog post on installing ubuntu on a macbook?
[02:11] <rick_h_> hatch: can give it a read
[02:11] <hatch> rick_h_ thanks! http://fromanegg.com/private/82251710943/tumblr_n3si6oh1aq1rojfnp
[02:11] <hatch> lemme know if you can get to that link
[02:12] <rick_h_> got it
[02:13] <hatch> great - that private post thing is a new feature so I wasn't sure how it worked
[02:19] <rick_h_> hatch: looks cool
[02:19] <hatch> right...on
[02:19] <rick_h_> my only concern is holding up over time with the number of external links for details
[02:19] <rick_h_> but otherwise it'd balloon
[02:19] <rick_h_> into a giant post
[02:19] <hatch> yeah I was thinking of bringing more information in but as it is it's pretty long
[02:21] <hatch> rick_h_ thanks for the read
[02:23] <hatch> it's alllliiivveee
[13:49] <hatch> morning all
[13:51] <hatch> the new Dart release is going to be adding some nice perf upgrades 
[14:51] <Makyo> jujugui call in 9
[14:51] <hatch> thanks
[14:52] <bac> Makyo: i was going to taunt you with our good luck getting a plumber.  called him last night around 6pm and he should up here at 7:50am.  fixed the problem in a jiffy.
[14:52] <Makyo> Harrumph.
[14:53] <bac> Makyo: then when he was turning the water back on at the street, he got it 40% on and the valve handle broke off
[14:53] <hatch> bac but Makyo's plumber needed a backhoe 
[14:53] <Makyo> Uh...whoops!  Bit more work to do, then?
[14:53] <bac> so now our already low water flow is reduced and we have to wait for the public water company to come fix it.
[14:53] <hatch> ugh oh....what are services like there?
[14:54] <hatch> like, will they actually come and fix it sometime soon
[14:54] <bac> slow to crazy slow
[14:54] <hatch> ahh, not so good
[14:54] <bac> one suggestion was to let the account go into arrears and when they come to shut it off they'll be forced to fix the valve
[14:55] <hatch> rofl
[14:56] <bac> but, the toilet valve doesn't leak any more!  :)
[14:57] <hatch> haha, now that's the main thing
[14:58] <Makyo> jujugui callin 2
[15:15] <hatch> oh Makyo  I wrote a blog post about installing Ubuntu on metal so if you wanted to do it on your air you could follow it :) 
[15:15] <Makyo> Woohoo!
[15:15] <hatch> http://fromanegg.com/post/82251710943/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-a-mac-or-macbook
[16:27] <rick_h_> Makyo: did your wiring card land that's in review? 
[16:27] <rick_h_> Makyo: or did you hit an issue?
[16:28] <Makyo> rick_h_, oh, sorry, landed.
[16:28] <rick_h_> Makyo: ok cool, waiting at the gate doing kanban wheee
[16:45] <hatch> url generator complete
[16:45] <hatch> now for 5 hours of writing state objects and urls for the test
[16:45] <hatch> argsauce 
[16:45] <hatch> :P
[17:35] <jcastro> hi guys; does anyone know the status of quickstart for osx and windows offhand?
[17:40] <hatch> jcastro it's not on the map before oscon
[17:45] <hatch> jcastro if that's not satisfactory you can email rick_h_ - he is on holidaysish until Thursday 
[17:45] <hatch> :-)
[17:45] <jcastro> not time sensitive
[17:46] <hatch> cool
[17:46] <hatch> everyone should use Ubuntu anyways right?
[17:46] <hatch> ;)
[17:46] <jcastro> yeah I just want to put quickstart all over the docs
[17:46] <hatch> it's such an awesome tool
[17:46] <jcastro> but I don't want to add OS-specific comboboxes all over the nocs
[17:47] <hatch> yeah that's probably a good idea
[17:48] <hatch> does python even run on windows properly?
[17:48] <hatch> I thought there was a bunch of hoops to jump through
[17:48] <jcastro> of course man
[17:48] <hatch> lol ok I'll take your word on it
[17:49] <hatch> jcastro I put together a blog post yesterday that you might be interested in http://fromanegg.com/post/82251710943/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-a-mac-or-macbook
[17:49] <jcastro> what? blog? Fix the askubuntu post on that sir!
[17:51] <hatch> do you have a link to this askubuntu post?
[17:53] <jcastro> http://askubuntu.com/questions/151371/how-to-install-ubuntu-12-04-on-mac-os-x
[17:53] <jcastro> don't just post a link to your blog, put the content there
[17:55] <jcastro> hatch, C&P'ing the text is fine, I can fix up the images and stuff for you
[17:56] <hatch> jcastro ok I'll update that tonight - there are a few additions/changes I want to make to the blog post first to clarify a few steps then I'll do it up
[17:59] <hatch> jujugui lf a review on the state > url generator https://github.com/juju/juju-gui/pull/232
[18:00] <Makyo> hatch, taking a look.
[18:00] <hatch> thanks
[18:00] <hatch> Makyo pay close attention to the generated urls in the tests, just to make sure I got them correct and that I"m not missing any obvious formats
[18:01] <Makyo> hatch, got it, thanks.
[18:01] <Makyo> Also, will your instructions work for dual booting?
[18:01] <Makyo> Oh, whoops, ther eit is.
[18:01] <Makyo> I might try that out for funsies this weekend.
[18:03] <hatch> :-) 
[19:15] <bac> hatch: i looked up my blog post for sharing a partition between metal and VM.  the post i referenced, which had all of the good bits, is no long available, and mine doesn't give a complete picture without it.
[19:15] <bac> s/long/longer
[19:16] <bac> s/long/longer/
[19:16] <bac> gah
[19:16] <hatch> ahhh darn!
[19:26] <hatch> the charmbrowser is now rendering via the state object
[19:26] <hatch> w000000t
[19:27] <hatch> bac there should also be a way to create a /home partition and share it between osx and ubuntu
[19:28] <hatch> .....should
[19:28] <hatch> heh
[19:28] <hatch> lunching
[19:28] <hatch> bbl
[19:33] <Makyo> Can you partition external USB drives and still have them work with Time Machine?  Using an entire 1TB drive to back up my 120gb HD seems weird.
[19:34] <Makyo> Will fiddle later.
[19:54] <hatch> Makyo I'm not sure, I use my NAS and before that it was a 500GB external drive.....which it ate up in no time
[19:55] <hatch> I think you can set a max size in time machine....
[19:55] <Makyo> Yeah.  Was thinking of just setting aside 200GB for Time Machine on this drive, using the rest for other backups, since OSX isn't my main.
[19:55] <hatch> guess not...
[19:55] <Makyo> Looks like you can, though.
[19:55] <hatch> oh?
[19:55] <hatch> the partitioning you mean?
[19:55] <Makyo> You can back up to a partition, I mean.
[19:55] <Makyo> Yeah
[19:55] <hatch> cool
[19:57] <Makyo> Figured I'd get that bit started.
[19:57] <hatch> yeah it takes a while
[19:57] <hatch> especially the first time
[19:59] <hatch> chrome crashes all the time in Ubuntu....no idea why
[19:59] <hatch> like the webpages turn to that blue crashed screen
[19:59] <Makyo> Huh, boo.
[20:00] <hatch> yeah who knows, every time I do an update about 150MB of new content is available so I'm sure it's just very in flux right now
[20:01] <Makyo> Yeah, that's fair.  Tried Chromium yet to see if there's any diff?
[20:03] <hatch> I haven't
[20:03] <hatch> I'll have to try that later on
[20:03] <hatch> I still haven't got it all set up so I'm still working in OSX
[20:04] <Makyo> Ah, alright.  Yay for Vagrants.
[20:04] <hatch> wb kadams54 
[20:05] <hatch> I haven't gotten external monitors to work yet....the thunderbolt plugins don't seem to trigger in Ubuntu
[20:05] <hatch> will need to investigate that some more
[20:05] <Makyo> Don't have nay here, thankfully.
[20:05] <kadams54> Thanks… been at the hotel for several hours now, but just now realized I forgot to reconnect in Textual
[20:05] <Makyo> I just buy new laptops.
[20:05] <Makyo> I'm up to three now, as of yesterday.
[20:06] <hatch> lol you bought another one?
[20:09] <Makyo> Yeah, refurb X230.  16gb RAM, Core i7, 16gb SSD. ultrabase dock, DVD burner, extra battery, extra charger, less than the stock laptop new :P
[20:09] <Makyo> Came with a 64gb SD card in the slot, too, which had the previous owner's tax docs on it.  Wiped that right away :P
[20:10] <hatch> oh nice
[20:10] <hatch> I didn't think the x230 had dvd drives
[20:10] <hatch> intersting
[20:11] <Makyo> It's in the dock.
[20:11] <hatch> ohh coolio
[20:12] <hatch> thats one powerful machine
[20:13] <Makyo> Yeah.  Most powerful I have now.
[20:14] <hatch> weird ssd...only 16GB? I'm guessing there is a HDD there too?
[20:14] <Makyo> The S76 is the same except for the HD, which is a 750gb HDD
[20:14] <Makyo> 160, sorry.
[20:14] <hatch> ahh cool cool
[20:15] <Makyo> Only thing I don't like about it is the trackpad, but I'm getting good at the trackpoint.
[20:15] <Makyo> Turned the pad off.
[20:18] <hatch> oh yeah I keep forgetting about those things
[20:19] <hatch> I'm tryign to decide if I should remap the ubuntu keyboard to operate like osx keys
[20:19] <Makyo> I don't mind either, but switching back and forth is tough.
[20:19] <hatch> yeah that's the problem right here :)
[20:32] <hatch> we should use this spinner http://codepen.io/esjay/pen/xclfz
[20:40] <bac> i'm glad it isn't just me:
[20:40] <bac> http://git-man-page-generator.lokaltog.net
[20:46] <hatch> ""patch a pack from returned non-shearing remote bases"" what in the.....
[20:48] <hatch> yes I get that it's a joke :)
[20:58] <bac> someone suggested it would be funny to occassionally include a real man page and see if anyone can tell
[21:01] <hatch> haha probably not
[21:05] <bac> Makyo: i just saw your timelapse on G+.  bonk!  ha
[21:05] <Makyo> bac, haha. I was working by the tripod and uncrossed my legs right into it :)
[21:06] <bac> tripods can be dangerous
[21:07] <bac> i was shooting some long exposures in the 'dry forest' a few weeks ago and decided it would be fun to jump in and out of the frame really quickly.
[21:07] <bac> as i jumped out i landed on a hidden stick which went up through my show into my foot about 1/2".  and the picture was dumb looking too.
[21:07] <bac> s/show/shoe/
[21:09] <hatch> ouch
[21:09] <Makyo> Yiiikes
[21:09] <Makyo> Photography's dangerous!
[21:11] <Makyo> We tried that on campus when I was in college. but all we could think to do was make ghosts of ourselves: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ranna/419086360 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ranna/419086412
[21:12] <hatch> haha that's cool
[21:13] <Makyo> Long exposure in the dark with a manual flash pointed at whoever was jumping.
[21:28] <rick_h_> hello from silly french land
[21:29] <hatch> ahoy
[21:29] <hatch> or should i say
[21:29] <hatch> bonjour
[21:29] <rick_h_> "speaka the english...give me phone data!"
[21:30] <hatch> comment est la météo ?
[21:30] <rick_h_> Makyo: getting a x230?
[21:30] <Makyo> rick_h_, got yesterday, yep.  Loving it so far.
[21:30] <Makyo> Well, once I turned off the trackpad.
[21:30] <rick_h_> Makyo: awesome, I left the air at home
[21:30] <rick_h_> Makyo: I thought long and hard about it, but the x230 is a programming machine, air isn't
[21:31] <rick_h_> Makyo: <3 welcome to the club. Love the doc to do dual displays and such. 
[21:31] <rick_h_> so much backlog, I give
[21:31] <Makyo> I may have to set that up sometime, yeah! Currently the doc's running the TV when the S76 isn't.
[21:32] <hatch> rick_h_ you'll be happy to hear the charmbrowser 'editorial' renders via the state system now - just working on the details and search 
[21:33] <rick_h_> jcastro: checking backlog. OSX quickstart is on the roadmap and will happen next cycle. Windows, no idea and honestly not even sure how it'd work. 
[21:33] <rick_h_> hatch: you da man! :)
[21:33] <rick_h_> hatch: the parts starting to fit together ok then?
[21:33] <jcastro> rick_h_, when you say next cycle do you mean 6 month cycle or a 2 week cycle?
[21:33] <hatch> rick_h_ like butter - except the details/search all use the old state so I had to refactor them
[21:34] <rick_h_> jcastro: 6mo. From now until vegas it's all machine view all the time. 
[21:34] <rick_h_> jcastro: it should be one of the first things we look at post-vegas
[21:34]  * jcastro nods
[21:34] <jcastro> rick_h_, I am mulling asking the list for volunteers
[21:35] <hatch> jcastro that's probably not a horrible idea as long as they are good pythonistas :) frankban has a pretty specific way he wants it written :)
[21:35] <rick_h_> jcastro: for osx support? We're happy to mentor. It honestly shouldn't be a lot of work, but we've not tried doing Mac packaging
[21:35] <rick_h_> lol
[21:36] <rick_h_> hatch: he'd be a good mentor
[21:36] <rick_h_> like eat your vegetables and write your tests
[21:36] <rick_h_> 100% or die
[21:36] <jcastro> ok
[21:36] <hatch> rick_h_ hahaha so true - 
[21:37] <rick_h_> jcastro: but yea, with safari support out the door now this week osx quickstart is important to make us fully OSX happy
[21:37] <hatch> jcastro would it be installed via brew? is that what you're thinking?
[21:37] <rick_h_> hatch: +1
[21:37] <jcastro> yeah
[21:37] <rick_h_> hatch: and quickstart would depend on brew's juju packages
[21:37] <jcastro> yup
[21:37] <jcastro> ah, but we'd need -deployer too huh
[21:38] <jcastro> are those in brew/Windows?
[21:38] <rick_h_> hatch: so a chunk of the work is packaging, getting the binary in the right place (which python should handle) 
[21:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: no, but they're python deps
[21:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: so they'd come along for the ride I think
[21:38]  * jcastro nods
[21:38] <rick_h_> jcastro: that's why it's not a TON of work, but without trying it I don't have the experience to say exactly how much
[21:38] <hatch> rick_h_ well that could also be done by brew
[21:39] <rick_h_> hatch: right, so we'd have to make sure urwid, deployer, etc are brew-ized
[21:39] <Makyo> hatch, jcastro Running into some things that might be a useful addition for MacBook Airs.
[21:39] <hatch> ahh right right
[21:39] <hatch> brew scripts are really just a script that can do pretty much anything
[21:39] <hatch> so we 'could' shoehorn whatever we wanted into there...
[21:40] <hatch> but brew deps would sure be awesome
[21:40] <rick_h_> hatch: right, but I'm sure there's good/bad ways to do things. There's enogh python in brew I'm sure there's a standard for packaing python libs
[21:40] <hatch> yeah probably right
[21:40] <rick_h_> and if we do it, let's be good community and do it right
[21:40] <hatch> Makyo oh? for the blog post?
[21:40] <rick_h_> imo
[21:40] <Makyo> Yep
[21:40] <hatch> agreed
[21:40] <jcastro> rick_h_, ok I'll think of some ideas on how to proceed, thanks
[21:40] <rick_h_> jcastro: sure thing, let me know if you need anything from my end. Else we'll chat on scheduling in vegas for us to work on it
[21:41] <hatch> Makyo if it's lengthy email it so I have it on record
[21:41] <hatch> I need to add the wifi bits tonight 
[21:41] <Makyo> One package to install, so far, but it's in trusty, so it's on the USB stick (as opposed to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBookAir6-2/Saucy )
[21:41] <Makyo> So far.
[21:42] <hatch> oh, my guide was for trusty not saucy
[21:43] <Makyo> hatch, yeah, I'm pointing out a difference between trusty and saucy.
[21:43] <hatch> ohhh gotcha
[21:43] <hatch> I didn't know about these pages
[21:43] <hatch> I'll have to add this link to the blog post
[21:43] <hatch> heh
[21:43] <hatch> I'm not sure how to find out what kind of macbook I have re the number parts
[22:00] <hatch> oh man this new state code is so ballin
[22:02] <hatch> Makyo hey how goes the battle? I'm interested to know the technique you're going to use :D
[22:02]  * hatch is such a nerd 
[22:03] <Makyo> hatch, installed, just grabbing wireless drivers.  Will have an email for you soon.
[22:03] <hatch> oh I mean't the ECS stuff :)
[22:03] <Makyo> Oh, call real quick? Have a pseudocode impl, should pre-imp with you
[22:04] <hatch> sure just a sec, it's a zoo in here, grab a link I'll join in a bit
[22:04] <Makyo> Sure
[22:06] <hatch> ok ready
[22:07] <Makyo> hatch, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/7acpjph1s199v2mkfi9g9qsh9s?hl=en
[22:25] <hazmat> anyone know where gui server keeps logs at
[22:26] <hatch> upstart I thought
[22:29] <hazmat> hatch, thanks
[22:30] <hatch> find what you're looking for?
[22:33] <hazmat> hatch, i found an api change in core that causes subordinate deploys with bundles to fail
[22:33] <hazmat> hatch, i'm gonna need to push a rev on gui charm and deployer
[22:34] <hatch> ahh ok cool, well just don't forget the tests ;-)
[22:35] <hazmat> i'll push to a personal branch..
[22:37] <hazmat> hatch, is there a make target to regenerate the pydep cache?
[22:41] <hatch> hmm it's been a while since I've worked with the guicharm
[22:41] <hatch> lemme take a peek
[22:42] <hazmat> oops
[22:42] <hatch> sysdeps
[22:42] <hazmat> that doesn't rebuild cache afaics
[22:43] <hatch> in that case I'm pretty sure the answer is no
[22:45] <hazmat> its done.. and apparently i missed putting it in a personal branch :-( 
[22:46] <hatch> oh the bug fix is already done?
[22:46] <hazmat> yeah.. 
[22:49] <hatch> oops
[22:52] <Makyo> No Huw.  Going to walk the dogs, back in a bit.
[22:52] <hatch> sounds good, if he shows we'll wait
[22:52] <Makyo> Will hurry, then.
[22:53] <hazmat> hatch, actually.. i pushed to the old charmers branch of gui.. i'm a bit confused on the distinction now
[22:53] <hatch> hazmat https://code.launchpad.net/~juju-gui/charms/precise/juju-gui/trunk
[22:53] <hatch> that's the GUI one 
[22:54] <hazmat> hatch, interesting.. cause.. https://store.juju.ubuntu.com/charm-info?charms=cs:juju-gui
[22:54] <hazmat> has my commit
[22:54] <hatch> yeah I have no idea, the whole 'charmers' thing just confuses me
[22:54] <hatch> https://jujucharms.com/sidebar/search/precise/juju-gui-87/?text=juju-gui lists ricks commit
[22:56] <hazmat> that's the multiple sources of truth biting folks
[22:56] <hazmat> the store is pointing to a different branch
[22:57] <hatch> yeah ok I have no idea sorry, I haven't done any of the charm > store stuff in a very long time
[22:57] <hatch> so can we stop with the whole charmers stuff? :)
[22:58] <hazmat> so basically juju deploy juju-gui gets a differnet version of the gui
[22:58] <hazmat> hatch, this isn't really about htat
[22:59] <hazmat> rick_h_, you around?
[22:59] <hazmat> hatch, my mistake launchpad has long delay
[22:59] <hazmat> hatch, they are pointing to the same place.. my commit just showed up
[22:59] <hazmat> but to https://code.launchpad.net/~juju-gui-charmers/charms/precise/juju-gui/trunk
[23:00] <hazmat> hatch, so juju deploy juju-gui pulls from that
[23:00] <hazmat> ~juju-gui is something else
[23:00] <hazmat> the gui team dev version perhaps
[23:00] <hatch> ohh ok so we have our branch and then there is the charmers branch
[23:01] <hatch> so you should probably roll your change back then? Because ours will overwrite that one on the next release
[23:01] <hazmat> hatch, you have gui team branch.. and gui charmers team branch.. which is different then ~charmers
[23:01] <hatch> oh boy
[23:01] <hazmat> hatch, we can point tip/alias for a charm to any branch
[23:01] <hazmat> gui just has separate dev charm then prod charm i htink
[23:01] <hatch> ahhh ok so you pushed to the prod charm
[23:01] <hatch> heh
[23:01] <hatch> morning huwshimi 
[23:01] <huwshimi> hatch: Morning
[23:02] <hazmat> argh.. now juju issues
[23:02] <hazmat> i'm gonna need some caffieene
[23:04] <hatch> haha, hazmat  sorry I haven't been much help, the people who do the majority of the charm work are gone atm
[23:04] <hazmat> hatch, no worries
[23:04] <hatch> huwshimi AUS call when Makyo returns? 
[23:13] <Makyo> I'm here.
[23:13] <huwshimi> hatch: Oh sure, sorry I thought there wouldn't be one with Rick away
[23:14] <hatch> we are on the ball!
[23:15] <hatch> sorry just trying to join now
[23:15] <hatch> ^ Makyo  huwshimi 
[23:15] <hatch> ok in
[23:29] <hatch> well I'm going to EOD now, I'll probably be back hacking on something later :) cya all
[23:37] <hatch> Makyo interesting technique you used....I just had to go into System & Updates and selected the proprietary driver for the wireless for it to work
[23:38] <hatch> did you try that approach first?
[23:38] <Makyo> hatch, oh, maybe you can do that, too.  It wasn't installed for me, but oh well.
[23:38] <Makyo> hatch, maybe worth putting in just a note that you might need to apt-get install that package first?
[23:38] <Makyo> You gotten your camera working yet?
[23:39] <hatch> so...did you install from the bootloader like in the tutorial or did you 'try' then install?
[23:39] <hatch> I haven't tried the camera yet....I'll do that tonight if I can
[23:39] <Makyo> hatch, try then install, so that might be it.
[23:40] <hatch> yeah I think that's the issue - I'll make notes of all this stuff - thanks for the email
[23:40] <Makyo> It's definitely in the repo on the install media, so it almost certainly loads!
[23:40] <Makyo> I'm trying now, will report back.
[23:42] <Makyo> No luck yet.
[23:42] <Makyo> The firmware cutter worked okay, but it isn't loading yet.
[23:43] <hazmat> is it a known issue that subordinate relations can't be hidden anymore?
[23:44] <Makyo> Yes.
[23:44] <Makyo> Pending on design's side, since the indicator is going away.