[00:15] <Meerkat> 14.04 lubuntu is still up for 5 years support?
[00:30] <Unit193> 3, never has been 5.
[00:41] <Meerkat> i was told 5 a few weeks ago
[00:55] <Unit193> It was never 5: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/14.04/LTS-Proposal
[01:00] <Meerkat> that's rather confusing since Ubuntu defines LTS as 5 years all over.
[01:00] <Unit193> Ubuntu does get 5 years, but Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and maybe others went for 3 years only, less devs able to support it.
[01:06] <Unit193> Each flavor does it's own release announcement, it'll be in there to clear things up too.
[01:08] <Meerkat> should it really be labeled LTS? Since the only definition of an LTS says 5 years support there would be quite some confusion.
[01:08] <Unit193> Yep, it should.  Otherwise it'd only be 9 months of support.
[01:09] <Meerkat> You don't see that as confusing then?
[01:10] <Unit193> Not so much, just two LTS options.  I don't know what all flavors are going for, but I get there's a big difference between Lubuntu, Xubuntu, UbuntuStudio, etc and Ubuntu.
[01:18] <phillw> Meerkat: desktop is 3 years, server is 5 years.... I do wonder why people do not understand the rules?
[01:19] <phillw> Unit193: and if you wish to argue against the tech board... go ahead... they have stated what 14.04 will be
[01:20] <Unit193> What?
[01:20] <phillw> (02:10:45) Unit193: Not so much, just two LTS options.  I don't know what all flavors are going for, but I get there's a big difference between Lubuntu, Xubuntu, UbuntuStudio, etc and Ubuntu.]
[01:21] <phillw> there is no difference... 3 years for desktop, 5 years forr server
[01:26] <Unit193> phillw: Yes, they did, but seems you didn't read what they wrote: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Support_lifespan  Don't blame me for echo'ing the official release notes...
[01:28] <phillw> Unit193: can you please tell me where what I have said differs to
[01:28] <phillw> Support lifespanUbuntu 14.04 will be supported for 5 years for Ubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server, Ubuntu Core, and Kubuntu. All other flavours will be supported for 3 years.
[02:20] <SonikkuAmerica> phillw: Ubuntu and Kubuntu are supported on the *desktop* for 5 years. That's where it differs.
[02:21] <SonikkuAmerica> As are Ubuntu Server (and Core). All the remaining flavors (Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Mythbuntu, Ubuntu Studio and Ubuntu Kylin) are only supported on the *desktop* for 3 years.
[04:56] <Mikaela> I didn't know that Lubuntu has different support times. How long is 12.04 supported?
[04:59] <JohnDoe_71Rus> Mikaela: like non LTS release
[04:59] <SonikkuAmerica> Mikaela: 12.04 has reached EOL. 3 months ago.
[04:59] <Mikaela> :(
[04:59] <SonikkuAmerica> Mikaela: Stick around for a week and experience our first LTS release, 14.04, which will be supported for 3 years.
[10:10] <phillw> Unit193: I have always said lubuntu is 3 years for 14.04 what is the issue here? That I will maintain the non-pae kernel for 5 years is a decision I took to allow any group using the 3.13.0 kernel to have a non-pae variant.
[10:27] <Unit193> Dude...
[10:45] <MaxFrames> hello
[10:52] <pip__> Hi, will 14.04 have a non-PAE version?
[10:54] <JohnDoe_71Rus> kernel the same from ubuntu 14.04
[10:54] <phillw> pip__: it will have a community non-pae version
[10:54] <phillw> it is currently being tested
[10:55] <pip__> thanks phil, I need to check the hardware in an old rig,
[10:55] <pip__> but I expect to need non-PAE
[10:56] <phillw> pip__: pop over to http://phillw.net/isos/non-pae/ to grab an ISO... it does need testing as I only made it last night!
[10:56] <phillw> send test results to the lubuntu mailing list or poke me on #phillw :)
[10:57] <pip__> phillw: nice one, that'll give me something of value to do today :)
[11:04] <phillw> pip__: it seems the daily I used may be faulty.. if so I'll respin it. I know the kernel is working okay as that is the kernel on the build machine :)
[11:06] <pip__> ok, I'll definitely let you know how it goes
[11:10] <pip__> phillw: thanks again, I'll be in touch this afternoon :)
[11:39] <MaxFrames> hello
[11:40] <MaxFrames> error while attempting to format an sdhc card, the device mounts and it's readable but I get "error synchronizing after initial wipe: timed out waiting for object (udisks-error-quark, 0)
[11:56] <MaxFrames> ok fixed with gparted apparently
[12:11] <rotesn> hello
[12:12] <rotesn> i hace Lubuntu ver 12.10 when update to 13.10 my PC freeze
[12:13] <rotesn> the same when install directly 13.10
[12:17] <leszek> rotesn: it might have todo with the newer kernel. Did you tried booting with the old 12.10 kernel on your updated system ?
[12:21] <rotesn> it is the new kernel the problem??
[12:21] <rotesn> recomend no update??
[12:30] <Lartza> I installed lubuntu onto an old laptop and the image is not on the full screen
[12:31] <rotesn> Lartza: I have not idea, I relatively new user
[12:35] <rotesn> how i make an update of version fron 12.10 to 13.10 without install the new kernel?
[12:40] <phillw> Lartza: first question always... did you run the self test on the CD?
[12:40] <phillw> rotesn: why do you not want the new kernel?
[12:41] <Lartza> phillw, I did not
[12:41] <phillw> Lartza: do so, then we know the cd and cd-drive are happy :)
[12:41] <Lartza> phillw, I already installed, live was fine, it boots fine, it's this bug I think Xorg is not getting settings correctly from the TFT
[12:42] <Lartza> Trying manual xorg.conf now
[12:42] <rotesn> phillw: i have a pc with lubuntu 12.10 when update to 13.10 go freeze
[12:42] <rotesn> when restart
[12:42] <rotesn> the same thing when install directly Lubuntu ver 13.10
[12:43] <phillw> Lartza: yes... build an xorg file... lubuntu uses the central *buntu drivers, so if the display does not work out of the box with lubuntu - it will not work with any :/
[12:43] <rotesn> leszek: say "the kernel is the problem"
[12:44] <phillw> rotesn: you may have either a non-pae computer, or one that does not advertise it.
[12:45] <phillw> rotesn: as soon as I get an answer from the testers I will have a solution for you that should give you 14.04 lubuntu.
[12:45] <leszek> rotesn: normally when you upgrade it should not remove the old kernel it just installs a new one and you are able to access the older ones via the bootmenu
[12:46] <phillw> leszek: with the new grub, you have to arrow down to select the older kernels... It caught me out a couple of times before I got used to it.
[12:47] <leszek> phillw: ah you are right.
[12:47] <Lartza> How about suspend resulting to black screen of death, have to cut the power :S
[12:48] <Lartza> Should suspend work out of the box?
[12:48] <Lartza> It's laptop induced not manually started
[12:48] <phillw> by the way, leszek Hi!!! long time no chat... Hope to see you at tonight's meeting :)
[12:48] <Lartza> Actually managed to mess up xorg.conf I think
[12:49] <phillw> Lartza: make a new one :)
[12:49] <rotesn> thanks phillw !!!!
[12:50] <rotesn> phillw: I whait to other version
[12:53] <leszek> phillw: yeah I will stay online the whole day I guess. When is the meeting exactly ?
[12:54] <phillw> rotesn: run cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep pae
[12:54] <phillw> and check you have pae
[12:54] <phillw> leszek: http://tinyurl.com/LubuMeet
[12:59] <leszek> phillw: thx ;)
[13:03] <rotesn> phillw: see --->  flags		: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc up arch_perfmon pebs bts aperfmperf pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm lahf_lm dtherm
[13:03] <rotesn> pae on red
[13:03] <phillw> yup, you have pae
[13:04] <rotesn> and the problem is....????
[13:05] <phillw> rotesn: grab the 14.04 build and try it... 13.10 has had some issues which have been resolved in 14.04
[13:06] <rotesn> ok phillw
[13:07] <phillw> rotesn: 13.10 was the stable beta for our 1st LTS... the pre-release 14.04 is in good shape and goes final release candidate this evening :)
[13:08] <rotesn> phillw: in Lubuntu site is not  able to download
[13:08] <rotesn> do you have a link?
[13:09] <phillw> rotesn: to grab any 14.04 head over to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/308/builds :)
[13:10] <rotesn> ok phillw and then i have to install LXDE? right??
[13:10] <phillw> nope.. the lubuntu desktop iso has everything you need :)
[13:12] <rotesn> ok. i not read whell all site
[13:12] <rotesn> :P
[13:17] <rotesn> phillw can you suport me again in other problem with ubuntu
[13:18] <phillw> rotesn: as with all of volunteers, I will help people where I can... the easiest way is to ask the question and then be patient :)
[13:20] <phillw> I, and others, are running around also to have 14.04 be the first LTS for lubuntu... hence my advising people who have problems with 13.10 to switch to it :)
[13:21] <rotesn> phillw: i known this, i very thanks to you!!! ;)
[13:25] <rotesn> Installing Lubuntu-desktop on a pc whith unity-desktop, console shows this ---> "/var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: source not able temporaly"
[13:26] <rotesn> and the instalation stops :(
[13:28] <phillw> rotesn: use the alternate ISO
[13:29] <phillw> I know... I hate desktop installer with a passion! But, if that is throwing up errors... just use the alternate... at least lubuntu stlll offers it :)
[13:32] <rotesn> phillw: you say i have to install Lubuntu??
[13:32] <rotesn> Ubuntu with Unity is very slow on my pc
[13:32] <phillw> rotesn: that is why lubuntu exists :)
[13:33] <rotesn> ok :)
[13:33] <phillw> rotesn: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu
[13:34] <rotesn> genius!! ;)
[13:39] <pip__> phillw: what are the symptoms of the faulty daily?
[13:40] <pip__> The machine I'm testing on is failing to find the cd, which is odd as I'm using a flash drive
[13:40] <pip__> non-pae lubuntu 14.04 iso
[13:43] <phillw> bbl... dog walking duties
[13:49] <pip__> lol, kk
[13:58] <pip__> well okay.  It turns out the machine will run a 64 bit OS & it has PAE support
[13:59] <pip__> That's a surprise...
[14:17] <phillw> pip__: most of the recent machines (post 1998
[14:17] <pip__> h'mmm, lost half of that phill
[14:18] <phillw> will have pae. for non-pae, we are going back to that era as the 1st couple of celeron 'M's did not have pae at all.
[14:18] <phillw> pip__:  ^^
[14:18] <pip__> yeah I had a laptop that didn't do pae
[14:18] <pip__> this is an athlon64 4000+
[14:18] <pip__> I'm still surprised
[14:18] <pip__> :)
[14:19] <pip__> anyway, the non-pae image stalled pretty early on
[14:19] <phillw> it is a small area, but the machines were sturdy and I thought it would not be too hard to offer a non-pae version.
[14:19] <phillw> pip__: where did it stall?
[14:20] <pip__> I think I got past keyboard detection & then it told me it couldn't mount the cd-rom
[14:20] <pip__> which was odd cos I'm using a usb stick
[14:21] <pip__> I thought it may have been a jumper issue - old hard drives
[14:21] <phillw> alternate install may not work with usb stick... I've never tried it.
[14:21] <pip__> erm, I think I've done a mini install from usb
[14:21] <pip__> if that's any help
[14:22] <pip__> that'd be a non-pae mini-iso
[14:22] <phillw> pip__: yes, you can.. but the alternate ISO expects to be on a CD. This is why lubuntu keep one.
[14:22] <pip__> aha, I see
[14:23] <pip__> that actually all makes logical sense
[14:23] <phillw> pip__: where did you get a mini 3.13 kernel for lubuntu that is non-pae ? As they do not provide one
[14:24] <pip__> oh sorry that was a 12.04, shudda mentioned that
[14:24] <phillw> pip__: invest in a CD-RW disc ... they save you a fortune over time :)
[14:24] <pip__> just found a dvd-rw
[14:25] <pip__> I'll give that a go
[14:25] <phillw> pip__: if the computer can handle dvd-rw it will most likely not be a non-pae machine!
[14:26] <pip__> it's not. as I've found out
[14:26] <pip__> it can handle pae & a 64 bit os
[14:26] <pip__> although it's a single core cpu with 3 gb of ddr 1 ram
[14:26] <pip__> it's surprised me to be honest
[14:27] <pip__> I was expecting it to be harder work as xp was a dog on it
[14:27] <phillw> Burning to USB sticks has been an issue for a while
[14:28] <phillw> use a cd to make the image and then when it boots run the self test to check it is 'happy'.
[14:28] <pip__> will do
[14:28] <phillw> burn at the lowest speed possible.
[14:29] <pip__> lol, hasn't usb made things like that sooo much easier?
[14:30] <pip__> I recall going thru cds like they were paper
[14:30] <phillw> pip__: except that usb installs do not work.... and support has been dropped.
[14:31] <pip__> really? when did that happen?
[14:31] <phillw> go buy a cd-rw disc for about $2 and it will take ~100 burns.
[14:31] <pip__> I should have stayed on the mailing list......
[14:33] <phillw> pip__: about 13.04 is when things started to unravell. The release team have said that you need to use dd to make an usb stick. for anything else, you're on your own. I had a good laugh when swearing at a machine that was Win 98 that could not boot from CD when I was using a 3.5" disc to get it to..... then I realised I was using a DVD-RW :) made a CD-RW and all was well :)
[14:36] <pip__> alrighty then.......dd......:(
[14:37] <phillw> pip__: have a read of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OBI
[14:38] <phillw> nio has even got a trial of lubuntu trusty available.
[14:38] <pip__> ok, thanks
[14:39] <phillw> I host his ISO's, he will be making an OBI for the non-pae community versiion.
[14:41] <phillw> he has a passion for OBI that I find refreshing :)
[14:45] <pip__> brb - shopping's just arrived.  Like youmneed to know that
[14:52] <phillw> pizza tonight here :P
[15:01] <phillw> jono how's the bacon? :P
[15:02] <jono> hey phillw
[15:02] <jono> good thanks :-)
[15:03] <pip__> mmmmmmmmmmm pizza
[15:04] <phillw> the bacon and cheese roll was really pushing things :P
[15:05] <phillw> I like smoked bacon on mature cheddar cheese between to slices of well buttered toast :D
[15:06] <pip__> sounds great
[15:06] <pip__> I've just discovered blue cheeses
[15:06] <pip__> but I really should lay of them to keep the arteries clear
[15:07] <pip__> on a serious note:
[15:07] <pip__> dvd-rw also fails.  Definitely needs to be a cd
[15:07] <pip__> no errors reported from the disc check either
[15:10] <phillw> pip__: is it a dvd drive or just cd ?
[15:11] <phillw> I got caught out with that one.
[15:11] <pip__> lol, good point, hold on
[15:11] <pip__> dvd writer
[15:12] <pip__> -i386.iso
[15:12] <pip__> oops
[15:12] <phillw> unless and untill the cd/dvd self checks okay... don't try to install.
[15:13] <pip__> ok
[15:13] <pip__> gonna pick up some cd RWs later or tomorrow
[15:14] <pip__> I'll have another crack at it then
[15:15] <pip__> or.....it could still be a jumper/cable thing.  I'll have to investigate that in more depth
[15:15] <phillw> until the install media reports back as happy... you are never going to have a good install.... even if you over-ride things, you will still be in the land of the 'funnies' and have un-expected glitches
[15:16] <pip__> ok
[15:16] <pip__> biab, got to start dinner
[16:04] <pip__> okay, the optical drive is good on the machine
[16:04] <pip__> so it's got to be not using a cd, or something else being peculiar
[16:05] <pip__> I'll stick with the get some CD-RWs plan
[16:05] <pip__> & I'll let you know how I get on
[16:05] <pip__> bye for now
[16:27] <zooko> Hi folks! I feel like beta-testing Lubuntu 14.04.
[16:28] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: Lubuntu?
[16:28] <zooko> Yes, Lubuntu
[16:28] <SonikkuAmerica> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/releases/trusty/beta-2/
[16:28] <zooko> I'm downloading a daily iso already...
[16:28] <SonikkuAmerica> Grab an image from there using traditional download, torrent, or zsync.
[16:29] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh. Daily images are definitely more current than the beta images, but updates are also pushed to you via the Update Manager.
[16:30] <zooko> Ok.
[16:30] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: But yeah, you can definitely start with a daily ISO.
[16:30] <zooko> Now, could you tell me, once I get this iso downloaded onto my linux system here, how I can install lubuntu root on a certain partition, and then get my grub to boot to that?
[16:30] <zooko> Okay I think I cna do the latter -- grub --
[16:31] <zooko> but I'm not sure what the lubuntu installation process is.
[16:31] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: Have you used any other flavor of Ubuntu?
[16:31] <zooko> Yes, lots of times!
[16:31] <zooko> I
[16:31] <zooko> 'm running an Ubuntu derivative on my main partition on this laptop.
[16:32] <SonikkuAmerica> Mint?
[16:32] <zooko> Normally what I do is make an install media like a USB key
[16:32] <zooko> but
[16:32] <zooko> Yeah, Mint.
[16:32] <zooko> But, I'd rather just launch the installer from this ISO and point it at the new partition if possibloe,m instead of making a USB key and booting from it.
[16:32] <SonikkuAmerica> The Mint installer is just a fork of the regular Ubuntu installer, so the process is more or less the same.
[16:32] <zooko> But I could do the latter if you recommend.
[16:33] <zooko> My new partition that I want to install Lubuntu 14.04 on is already mkfs'ed with btrfs. :-)
[16:34] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: OK. So you want to keep the BTRFS then.
[16:34] <SonikkuAmerica> Also, are you dealing with UEFI?
[16:37] <SonikkuAmerica> And you also want to boot the ISO from your hard disk. Do you have grml-rescueboot installed on Mint?
[16:40] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: Did you fall off the face of the earth?
[17:00] <zooko> back
[17:00] <zooko> SonikkuAmerica: yeah, UEFI
[17:00] <zooko> Hm, I can apt-get install grml-rescueboot.
[17:00] <zooko> But what will it do...
[17:01] <zooko> I see.
[17:01] <SonikkuAmerica> When the ISO is finished, [ mv ] it into /boot/grml (with sudo) and then [ sudo update-grub ]
[17:03] <zooko> I see.
[17:03] <zooko> Then reboot, boot to that ISO, then install it into the right partition.
[17:04] <SonikkuAmerica> You'll have to manually install it, of course. You'll also need to choose between Lubuntu's version of GRUB and Mint's.
[17:07] <SonikkuAmerica> If you still want to use Mint's GRUB, you'll have to reboot into Mint, run [ sudo update-grub ] again, and then reboot another time to see the Lubuntu entry.
[17:24] <phillw> hi folks... the meeting for the final push of 14.04 is starting soon https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings/Agenda
[17:25] <zooko> What's the md5sum for today's build of trust-desktop-amd64.iso ?
[17:25] <SonikkuAmerica> 1:30?
[17:25] <SonikkuAmerica> (ET)
[17:26] <zooko> 20140409
[17:26] <SonikkuAmerica> Oh, 2:00
[17:27] <SonikkuAmerica> phillw:  I'll be there for it, is it in the -offtopic?
[17:27] <phillw> SonikkuAmerica:  yup :)
[17:27] <SonikkuAmerica> Yep
[17:27] <SonikkuAmerica> I'll be there :)
[17:28] <Parlabane> can i lurk on the meeting ? see what it is all about?
[17:33] <Meerkat> phillw, are everyone welcome to that meeting?
[17:35] <phillw> Meerkat: that is the idea of meetings :)
[17:51] <zooko> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/lubuntu/daily-live/20140409/MD5SUMS
[17:54] <zooko> Well, not off to a great start. I get a black screen as soon as I choose "install lubuntu".
[17:55] <zooko> Probably due to my unsupport Nvidia graphics card, or the two-graphics-cards thing in my Macbook Pro (a discrete Nvidia and an on-chip(?) Intel).
[17:55] <zooko> I have a similar problem when I boot Mint,
[17:55] <zooko> but I work around it by choosing "Recovery mode" from grub.
[17:55] <zooko> How can I choose "Recovery mode" for Lubuntu  ...
[17:55] <Parlabane> i have an on chip intel graphic. not problems here
[17:56] <Parlabane> atom D510 thingie
[17:56] <zooko> Parlabane: yeah, if I could figure out how to switch off the discrete entirely, maybe I would be able to boot...
[17:56] <Parlabane> oh no wait.. i have not tried the daily live
[17:56] <Parlabane> i am on 13.10
[17:57] <ianorlin> jockey-text is something I have heard of
[17:57] <Parlabane> zooko,: nothing i need to disable... (for 13.10)
[17:57] <zooko> The problem isn't the builtin Intel, it is the discrete Nvidia.
[17:57] <ianorlin> that will get nvidia drivers or how old an nvidia card though
[17:57] <zooko> Linux tries to start using that when I boot, and it immediately messes up the display.
[17:57] <zooko> I don't know if it locks the computer entirely, or just prevents display.
[17:59] <zooko> Ah, adding "nomodeset" to the boot line fixes that.
[18:00] <SonikkuAmerica> zooko: I guess I didn't ask about that when I helped you
[18:07] <sarin> hello. is there a way to make lxterm gain focus upon opening? I made "focus new windows bleh..." openbox but lxterm just flashes the border a few times and doesn't gain focus.
[18:08] <sarin> even mousing over the window doesn't get focus
[18:12] <ianorlin> open openbox configuration manager and make sure you have focus new windows when they appear
[18:12] <ianorlin> you could set focus under mouse if you wanted to from there as well
[18:15] <sarin> as above, I have used openbox ^^^
[18:21] <Ahmuck> hi hi.  is there a pae kernel for lubuntu
[18:22] <SonikkuAmerica> Ahmuck: The PAE kernel is the only available kernel. A non-PAE community respin is being tested.
[18:22] <Ahmuck> i was just reading about a fake pae
[18:23] <Ahmuck> so your saying that i cannot use a fake pae kernel
[18:23] <Ahmuck> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu-fake-PAE
[18:24] <SonikkuAmerica> That's the one we're testing.
[18:24] <SonikkuAmerica> #phillw would be more useful actually
[18:25] <ianorlin> there is a patch in 14.04 which releases soon which will eliminate the need for fake pae for some processors
[18:26] <ianorlin> that is in the kernel for 14.04
[18:26] <Ahmuck> i read that as well.  will 14.04 have fake pae in it automagically
[18:26] <Ahmuck> ok
[18:26] <Ahmuck> so, is there a way to use fake pae, download the iso for fake pae?
[18:26] <SonikkuAmerica> Ahmuck: The link is on that wiki page you ref'ed earlier
[18:27] <Ahmuck> http://phillw.net/isos/lubuntu-fake-pae/raring/grub-n-iso/
[18:27] <Ahmuck> i assume this link?
[18:30] <Ahmuck> ok, so i'm going to wait a week
[18:30] <Ahmuck> for 14.04 release
[18:56] <zooko> Hm, now it has said "Detecting file systems..." for more than an hour.
[18:56] <zooko> Could it be that because I don't have a network set up on this box the installation is hanging?
[19:08] <zooko> The text window says "host name not found: ntp.ubuntu.com"
[19:08] <zooko> Could that be blocking progress on the install?
[19:09] <zooko> If I switch to a console can I figure out how far along the install is?
[19:09] <zooko> Is there a log file somewhere?
[19:09] <zooko> Oh, the log file says "BTRFS: couldn't mount because of unsupported optional features".
[19:09] <zooko> That could be related.
[19:12] <zooko> Can I boot my own kernel and then run the lubuntu installer from the iso?
[19:12] <zooko> (My kernel supports the new BTRFS features.)
[19:13]  * ianorlin is not sure how to do it
[19:14] <Unit193> Replace the kernel in the squashfs system and sure.
[19:16] <holstein> zooko: nothing about lubuntu is preventing you from running your own kernel
[19:16] <holstein> !mini
[19:17] <holstein> zooko: you can try starting with that ^ since its smaller
[19:17] <holstein> you can get *buntu installed with whatever kernel you want to make happen, and do what you like
[19:19] <zooko> holstein: sorry, I don't understand how to launch the installer after booting my own kernel.
[19:19] <zooko> Do I need to build a iso with my own kernel in it? Or can I just, like "python installer.py" after boot?
[19:25] <holstein> zooko: not sure, friend.. the lubuntu installer doesnt really do anything to prevent you from doint this, but its also not able to necessarily facilitate it either
[19:26] <holstein> zooko: if it were me, i would try the default installer, which, AFAIK, supports btrfs.. or, elaboarate about what features you are specificallly looking for
[19:27] <zooko> When I boot the default installer, it boots a kernel that doesn't handle the new BTRFS features.
[19:28] <zooko> I'd like to run a new kernel -- which I have here -- and then run the installer in that new kernel.
[19:28] <zooko> One way to do that would probably be to rebuild the installer iso, replacing the kernel it came with, with my new kernel.
[19:28] <zooko> I don't know how to do that, though, do you?
[19:28] <holstein> zooko: sure.. what "new" features. maybe there is an easier way
[19:28] <holstein> or, maybe you can add those features after (easily) installing the os, then changing kernels..
[19:28] <zooko> Another would be to boot my new kernel then execute whatever program it is that the iso executes when booted.
[19:29] <zooko> No, the features are in the layout of the btrfs filesystem, and can't be changed after the fs is created.
[19:29] <zooko> It is the "no-holes" feature.
[19:29] <zooko> In btrfs.
[19:29] <holstein> zooko: have you checked 14.04 to see if its just there?
[19:30] <zooko> holstein: yes.
[19:30] <holstein> zooko: i suggest going to the main ubuntu community for this.. you can use the mini iso i gave, and get a bare minimal ubuntu installation on the kernel you want with the btrfs features, and add lubuntu-desktop to that
[19:31] <zooko> Why do you say that using the mini iso will allow me to use the kernel I want. How is it any different from the lubuntu iso?
[19:31] <holstein> zooko: i didnt
[19:32] <holstein> zooko: i said it was different because its smaller, and easier to download and test with
[19:32] <holstein> zooko: its also not lubuntu specifically, so, you'll be able to take advantage of a *much* larger ubuntu support team
[19:33] <zooko> Okay, I've already downloaded the lubuntu iso, so that's not a problem for me.
[19:34] <holstein> zooko: the mini iso's are small..
[19:38]  * zooko laughs.
[19:57] <SonikkuAmerica> holstein: Doesn't the Live image work with BTRFS?
[19:58] <zooko> SonikkuAmerica: I believe it does, but I have used some fresh-from-the-oven hot new BTRFS features that are backwards-incompatible.
[19:58] <zooko> So only Linux ≥ 3.14.0 can mount it.
[20:00] <zooko> SonikkuAmerica: so I can think of two ways to get what I want:
[20:00] <zooko> 1. build my own installer .iso with my own kernel and otherwise keep everything from the lubuntu installer
[20:00] <zooko> 2. boot my own kernel, mount the .iso, and execute whatever program it is that runs the installer.
[20:00] <zooko> Any advice?
[20:01] <holstein> zooko: use the mini iso installer.. no reason to pack the bulk of lubuntu onto it
[20:01] <holstein> zooko: you dont need it.. just get an insatll with your kernel and btrfs *then* install whatever desktop after that
[20:02] <holstein> zooko: it will make testing and playing with this (trial and error) faster
[20:03] <zooko> holstein: okay, that's a useful tip: get an install of any Ubuntu and my kernel and then add lubuntu-desktop.
[20:04] <zooko> But, I have the same problem getting an install of any Ubuntu and my kernel as getting Lubuntu and my kernel.
[20:04] <zooko> Also I don't see how the miniiso is relevant. How is it different from the lubuntu installer iso that I already downloaded?
[20:04] <holstein> zooko: its because they are all the same
[20:04] <ianorlin> that will get a mini system with just kernel and then put desktop on later
[20:05] <holstein> zooko: the mini is relevant because its *small*
[20:05] <zooko> But why would I care if it is small?
[20:05] <holstein> zooko: building a custom one of those with your kernel should be much faster.. like 20 times faster
[20:05] <holstein> zooko: you would care due to time, and trial and error
[20:05] <zooko> Oh, it takes a long time to build the full ubuntu iso and less time to build the mini one?
[20:05] <zooko> Okay, I care about that. Thanks. ☺
[20:05] <zooko> How do I build the mini iso?
[20:05] <holstein> zooko: it takes *significantly* less time
[20:06] <holstein> zooko: the mini, xubuntu, lubuntu.. ubuntustudio, kubuntu.. they are *all* ubuntu
[20:06] <holstein> zooko: you make them the same
[20:06] <zooko> Could you point me to a document about how to do that?
[20:07] <holstein> zooko: how to make your own live CD?
[20:07] <zooko> Yeah.
[20:07] <holstein> zooko: there are many.. and none of which have i tried with changing a kernel successfully
[20:07] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization
[20:07] <zooko> Thanks!
[20:07] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
[20:07] <holstein> zooko: its just not the focus of *buntu
[20:08] <holstein> zooko: its not the "tinker with it all top to bottom and hack in all the bleeding edge stuff you like" distro
[20:09] <holstein> nothing is preventing that, and im quite sure, since eveyrthing is open, anything is possible.. but, it may not be "easy", and it may be much easier to start some other way
[20:09] <holstein> zooko: i would think, proper backporting of stable btrfs into 14.04 might be easier, if its features that folks are interested in
[20:10] <zooko> Um, isn't 14.04 stable and LTS and imminent?
[20:13] <holstein> zooko: 14.04 is long term support
[20:13] <phillw> zooko: yup
[20:13] <holstein> zooko: backporting is a way of getting features backported, that others may want as well... want/need
[20:14] <zooko> holstein: oh, I see. You meant the backports thing, not getting the new features into 14.04 itself.
[20:15] <phillw> holstein: I think that btrfs may arrive as default in 17.04. it has not had a long enough track run as /boot for it to replace the temporary ext4
[20:15] <zooko> So, the new features I'm thinking of require a kernel 3.14 or newer and the btrfs-progs 3.14.
[20:15] <zooko> or newer
[20:16] <holstein> zooko: should be in debian testing
[20:16] <holstein> zooko: so is lxde..
[20:17] <holstein> might be "better" or more stable up there, rather than bolting on quite a few key underlying backbone features to *buntu and expecting this to be solid
[22:12] <zooko> Does anybody want to walk me through how to remaster an installer .iso using uck to replace the kernel with my own custom kernel?
[22:28] <holstein> zooko: i couldnt get it to work with UCK, and when i asked, i was told to do the chroot method
[22:28] <holstein> zooko: i was trying to add an in repo kernel
[22:31] <zooko> Hm.
[22:51] <zooko> Aha! http://wiki.backbox.org/index.php/Customize_the_Live_DVD
[22:51] <zooko> This sounds perfect.
[23:24] <xnox> phillw: 17.04 - haha =)
[23:49] <phillw> xnox: 17.04 is the next planned LTS ?
[23:50] <xnox> phillw: no.
[23:50] <xnox> phillw: 8.04, 12.04, 14.04, 16.04 -> are LTS releases.....
[23:50] <xnox> (10.04)
[23:51] <xnox> phillw: basically april of any year that has olympics.
[23:51] <Unit193> I was thinking even years. :P
[23:51] <phillw> xnox: I was close... more than 9 months :P
[23:53] <phillw> xnox: but i still have to support the kernel until 2019 :)
[23:56] <xnox> phillw: anyway, i daubt we will switch by 17.04.
[23:57] <phillw> xnox: you'd be shocked to hear that this n00b (with a lot of help) has got a non-pae version of 3.13 kernel for any teams along with a full lubuntu-14.04-non-pae ISO....
[23:57] <xnox> phillw: imho, xfs is more lickely.
[23:57] <phillw> i've only hear good things about btrfs
[23:58] <xnox> phillw: haha
[23:59] <xnox> phillw: last week it was discovered that btrfs send/receive is not host/target endian-safe =)
[23:59] <phillw> xnox: I still like ext4 :)