[02:05] Noskcaj: looks good to me [02:05] you have upload rights to parole, right? [07:28] good morning folks [09:32] slickymasterWork, so yeah... [09:32] maybe we should make it a generic note [09:32] saying disabling the compositor can help with performance a lot, including virtualized environments [09:33] Unit193, are we even shipping it? :P [09:33] Nope, that's why I wasn't talking in here. :P [09:33] it's fine here [09:34] Used to be(?) an Xfce project, seems Xfce contributors still work on it at least. [09:34] mmh, well then i'm not as enthusiastic about it (didn't come to think that the last time), but would still be nice [09:34] just a second please [09:34] we should use some time to really dig into the seed for 14.10 [09:37] brb, booting desktop [09:54] bluesabre, I completely forgot i had that power. I'll check with the release team, then upload [09:54] Noskcaj, fantastic. :-) [10:03] sorry guys, but the DHCP started to act crazy and revoking the IP leases to the machines over here [10:19] new parole uploaded [11:09] c'mon, lets fix the remaining -bugs :) [11:10] brainwash: in the process of clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04 [11:10] that's great [11:10] besides bug 1304128 do you want me to check anything else? [11:10] bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128 [11:10] the usual checks I guess [11:11] if everything is working fine [11:11] with the old panel layout especially [11:11] ok, after this I'll go 13.10 -> 14.04 [11:13] thanks [11:14] np [11:18] just curious is the 'sound/volume app' for your speakers/headsets that sits on the top next to the clock and other icons getting fixed? [11:20] what's broken about it? [11:20] it should not be missing since yesterday, if you mean this [11:26] should I be able to find it on the Panel to add it on? [11:32] you one need to add the indicator plugin to your panel [11:33] in case it's missing [11:34] and make sure that your system is up-to-date [11:35] my system is always up to date every day I do update/upgrade and thank you for that info, will add it on now it was missing. [11:38] well the 'indicator plugin' was there but I mean the little icon for volume control is not there, you know going from 'mute' to full blast' icon is still missing [11:42] after you updated, did you logout/restart? [11:43] Noskcaj: thanks! [11:46] yes I did bluesabre [11:47] I had to go to pulseaudio on multimedia to get a louder volume on my headset [11:47] but the icon would be nice to have again [11:49] hm [11:49] gotta run, bbl [12:00] thought there was a bug report filed on this missing icon from the panel? That's why i hadn't filed one, someone else beat me to it. [12:02] yes, and it should be fixed [12:02] bug 1302571 [12:02] bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571 [12:03] so, please create a new user account to confirm that it does not on your system [12:03] and make sure that "indicator-sound" is still installed [12:04] booting todays daily - will check [12:04] sound indicator present [12:05] so is ibus :| [12:05] okay will look and update today's updates/upgrades [12:05] starrats: it doesn't matter if you update - if you've done something that stops the indicators showing :) [12:06] knome: ibus is still present in todays daily [12:07] I have done nothing to lose that indicator sound icon, it's not in the panel/items to add screen [12:07] it won't be - it's part of indicator-plugin [12:08] check it's not deactivated in settings - session - autostart [12:11] mr :P [12:12] who's mr :P? is he like Mr T ? [12:12] ... [12:13] so there is a mr for it - just not actioned? [12:13] lol [12:13] no [12:13] sorry for being ambiguous [12:13] bluesabre, ochosi: did you take action to get the ibus dropping in the seed uploaded? [12:14] elfy, FTR, both sean and simon have access to our branches now [12:14] so we barely need merge requests for those [12:14] now the only thing we need to care about is uploading [12:14] ok cool - I thought I saw micah say that [12:14] yep, not sure if it has come up already [12:14] saw it in -ot [12:15] just so long as it's done before Thursday or I'll be -1 to releasing with it ;) [12:15] ;) [12:15] british... [12:15] * knome shakes head [12:15] lol [12:16] but yyyyeah, we should take care of it [12:18] thanks elfy, brainwash and others, I had to check the indicator sound like elfy said and restarted the comp, all is good now, i learn something new everyday from one of you, :) [12:21] knome: saw that - thanks :) [12:21] np.. [12:27] micahg, around? [12:27] oh shoo. :) [12:28] saw that - lovely :| [12:28] back later [12:29] never saw the manifest or germinate-output before [12:32] i think it's one of those things that i can look at, but won't understand enough to come up with anything sane [12:34] tip: only run in a directory that do not have files you don't want to get lost [12:36] knome: ibus should be dropped already [12:36] at least it is gone from the seed [12:36] ochosi, it gets pulled in by unity-control-center [12:36] ochosi, which is pulled in by gnome-bluetooth [12:36] great [12:36] i thought we shipped blueman? [12:36] the alternative to unity-control-center is gnome-control-center [12:37] that's both terrible [12:37] yeah.. [12:37] why can't they make the alternative xfce4-settings-manager? :) [12:37] hey, we probably could [12:37] just did a fresh install of the RC, it seems there are now two clocks in the panel [12:37] I also noticed a whole bunch of unity control settings and deamons pulled in [12:37] ochosi, but would it have bluetooth configuration stuff without those other -control-center packages? [12:38] i'm using gnome-bluetooth currently (or is it bluetooth indicator?) and this is what i get when i go to "bluetooth settings..." in the menu: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-04-11-143817.php [12:39] so no luck? [12:39] well that's empty, there's no bt settings there [12:39] but frankly, it doesn't seem very needed [12:39] ah, and that's the gnome-control-center? [12:39] you can switch bt on/off in the indicator [12:39] yeah [12:39] mmright... [12:39] you can add/remove/configure devices [12:39] you can make your adaptor discoverable [12:40] that's all i need [12:40] ochosi, please follow -release and HALP! [12:40] ;) [12:41] so this is that thing i'm using: http://imagebin.org/305049 [12:41] seems comprehensive enough on its own [12:41] hmm, [12:41] let me check what it actually is... [12:41] yeah... [12:42] ny the way, why is the whole bluetooth stack installed anyway by default? even if the device does not have any bluetooth [12:42] jhenke, because it isn't "possible" to check if a user has bluetooth devices or not [12:43] or even if it was, they should all be connected and recognised during installation [12:43] knome: so i'm using indicator-bluetooth + gnome-bluetooth. and that pulls in all the evil stuff. [12:43] yep [12:43] knome: problem is: we might need to patch indicator-bluetooth a la indicator-sound/power [12:43] aha [12:43] what would that fix? [12:43] in our case: to hide the "bluetooth settings..." menuitem [12:43] okay [12:43] not pulling in all the gnome/unity stuff? [12:44] jhenke: well that menuitem is the sole reason those -control-centers are pulled in [12:44] i'm *definitely* not experienced enough here, but it sounds like stupid pulling those in... [12:44] knome: i'll be back in a bit, do you know why we switched away from blueman? [12:44] ochosi I know, I tryied to point out that a patch is needed to *not* pull all that into the installtion [12:45] i never was completely on top of it, but i think we never switched away from anything [12:45] at least for trusty: it was discussed, and the outcome was: let's keep what we have [12:46] by the way there was also some other new item in the panel, something related to the input [12:47] that loook much like it also lived in the unity-control-center [13:08] yeah, stop the unity infection! [13:10] I came to xubuntu to get rid of unity... [13:13] stop the FUD, fix the bugs :) [13:13] if I only knew where to start.... [13:33] knome: so actually we seed blueman [13:34] aha.. [13:34] so why is gnome-bluetooth seeded? [13:34] :) [13:36] brainwash: brainwash, clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04 [13:37] Present -> bug 1274548, bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203 [13:37] knome: no clue, i'm not that familiar with the seed stuff [13:37] bug 1274548 in gstreamer1.0 (Ubuntu) "gst-plugin-scanner crashed with SIGSEGV in __GI___pthread_mutex_lock()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1274548 [13:37] bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128 [13:37] bug 1284914 in xfdesktop4 (Ubuntu) "xfdesktop network shares not visible on desktop" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1284914 [13:37] bug 1261203 in abiword (Ubuntu) "Abiword top ruler hidden by gray area on first open" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1261203 [13:37] that xfdesktop bug should be marked as wontfix imo [13:37] brainwash: gThumb is still present and the old app-menu is default instead of Whisker [13:38] slickymasterWork: also, is the xscreensaver thingy really a problem? [13:38] ochosi, i can mark it, but with what rationale? [13:38] yeah that's also expected, user conf doesn't get overridden and apps don't get removed generally [13:38] not me ochosi, I was checking it as per brainwash's request [13:38] not present bug 1210898, bug 1302571 [13:38] bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898 [13:38] bug 1302571 in xfce4-indicator-plugin (Ubuntu) "Panel 0 xfce4-indicator-plugin misbehavior in Trusty" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1302571 [13:38] knome: the thing is that with the current implementation it won't be possible to show network drives in the same way as thunar [13:39] okay [13:39] knome: the technical reason is gio [13:39] but i don't think we need to explain that [13:39] slickymasterWork: thanks [13:39] yeah, so the right thing is [13:39] will need to be fixed upstream [13:39] but it's not won't fix [13:39] so the bug is wishlist? [13:39] no [13:39] at least for xubuntu.. [13:39] will start now clean install 13.10 -> 14.04 [13:40] brainwash, i know it isn't right now, i'm talking about what it should be [13:40] you can enabled to show network shares in the settings dialog of xfdesktop, so it's an incomplete feature [13:40] anyone needs any sort of verification regarding a this scenario clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04? [13:40] just leave it open :) [13:40] ochosi, ^ do you agree? [13:41] not duable brainwash, I'm getting short of disk space for VM [13:41] i'm dropping it from the blueprint [13:41] knome: so anyway, wrt the bluetooth issue, i have no clue what's going on there, but the previous plan to patch indicator-bt is obviously bollocks, cause it's not installed/in use :) [13:41] slickymasterWork, he was replying to me [13:41] slickymasterWork: I meant to leave the bug report open [13:41] lol [13:41] ochosi, hehe [13:41] :) [13:42] ok whipping it and starting with 13.10 -> 14.04 [13:42] so hopefully one of you can look into why we're pulling unity seemingly and gnome-bluetooth [13:42] i guess it's some nasty depends/recommends chain [13:42] is bug 1304128 a problem? [13:42] bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128 [13:43] shouldn't it be wontfix? [13:43] slickymasterWork: ^ [13:43] that was what i was asking before [13:43] on the light of your reasoning, yes [13:43] i think it shouldn't be a problem apart from possibly conflicting auto-lock times... [13:43] or: is there any downsides of having both installed? [13:44] let's put it another way [13:44] thing is, will users unsderstand it? [13:44] the bug described isn't really a bug, it's a feature (both are kept) [13:44] am i right? [13:44] knome: well as i said... [13:44] there *might* be another bug involved with that, but that's not related to this one [13:45] disk space concerns? [13:45] :D [13:45] hah [13:45] shouldn't that at least be mentioned in the Release notes, knome? [13:45] I mean bug 130428 [13:45] bug 130428 in pcre3 (Ubuntu) "gnome-system-monitor: symbol lookup error: gnome-system-monitor: undefined symbol: _ZN7pcrecpp2RE4InitEPKcPKNS_10RE_OptionsE" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130428 [13:45] ups, not that one [13:46] bug 1304128 [13:46] bug 1304128 in xubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) "Both light-locker and xscreensaver enabled after upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1304128 [13:46] well i guess ww could mention that "if you are having problems with autolocking times, remove xscreensaver [13:46] yeah, we could mention it [13:46] also in that article about locking [13:46] mhm [13:47] just as a heads up for users, or we might get into a situation facing several users nagging about it [13:47] anyway, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-meta/trusty/view/head:/desktop-recommends-amd64#L10 [13:47] that's wrt bluetooth ^ [13:47] bbl [13:52] slickymasterWork, i guess you didn't hit bug 1303736 (dup of bug 1259339) [13:52] bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "duplicate for #1303736 xfce4 power manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339 [13:52] bug 1259339 in xfce4-power-manager "xfce4 power manager does not restore screen power" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1259339 [13:54] no knome, but I wouldn't be able to anyway. At work, just desktop, no lappies [13:54] yep [14:27] Noskcaj: is this ok? should the patch be applied or just added to debian/patches? https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling [14:57] ochosi: so, do we know why the additional unity stuff is pulled in? [14:58] I mean, do we need further investigation? :) [14:59] probably good to double-check but it seems it's gnome-bluetooth pulling that in [15:05] looks like network-manager-gnome recommends gnome-bluetooth [15:06] that is... kind of understandable, but debatable [15:06] maybe it could suggest it [15:06] maybe recommend it or blueman [15:07] if network-manager-gnome really is the start of the dependency chain [15:07] moo? [15:08] do you agree? [15:08] I explicitly don't know without looking [15:09] network-manager-gnome -> gnome-bluetooth -> unity awesomeness [15:09] brainwash I guess you hit the nail [15:10] other problematics are indicaor-keyboard and indicator-datetime [15:11] don't you pull in gnome-control-center? [15:11] why would we? [15:11] cyphermox we should rather not [15:11] no, we have xfce4-settings-manager [15:11] ok [15:11] well then maybe it should be an extra alternate recommends in gnome-bluetooth? [15:12] i've suggested that, and it's one option [15:12] but do we need gnome-bluetooth? [15:12] we have blueman [15:12] given blueman maybe you don't [15:12] is there already a bug open about this? [15:13] so we need to tell network-manager-gnome to recommend gnome-bluetooth or blueman [15:13] I don't think n-m-gnome pulling in gnome-bluetooth pulling in gnome-control-center is new, though, so I'm a little surprised it's only an issue now :) [15:14] brainwash: not sure, it recommends gnome-bluetooth because nm-applet ships a gnome-bluetooth plugin [15:14] so it probably could be dropped to a Suggest [15:14] I am also surprised when I did a frash isntallation of the RC today and gound all those extra indicators that should not be in xfce [15:15] this might be only the result of the dependency chain [15:16] you did not notice the extra indicators before, because we've changed xfce4-indicator-plugin just yesterday [15:16] bbiab [15:16] so now it loads all installed indicators [15:17] brainwash okay that explains a lot [15:18] like -datetime which was/is hidden in our settings manager [15:18] or -session [15:18] I do think it is important that we get rid off all those extra indicators, especially as xubuntu is also used on weak platforms (e.g. netbooks) where every mb ram counts [15:19] we only intended to ship 4: -application -messages -power -sound [15:20] great, so we all want the same, question is, how to get those extra ones out of the default install? [15:21] by not letting gnome-bluetooth pull in unity-settings-daemon and all the additional stuff [15:22] brainwash: where are the seeds for xubuntu? [15:22] do you think the extra idicators also came by that? [15:22] I guess so [15:22] cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty [15:22] jhenke: yes, unity-control-center pulls in the indicators [15:23] oh, meant unity-control-center :) [15:26] ok, so I guess I could drop gnome-bluetooth from Recommends to Suggests [15:27] or if someone from the xubuntu team wants to do the diff, get the credit, and bug the release team themselves to land this in, I will not object at all :) [15:28] I guess the important thing is to get it laned :) [15:30] by the way, I saw ibus got dropped from the seed, but was installed anyway today [15:30] most likely the same reason [15:32] cyphermox: why not add blueman as alternate recommends? [15:33] brainwash okay, just going the things that I noticed [15:33] so we don't break the initial recommend [15:33] brainwash: I don't think it makes sense, n-m-gnome isn't doing anything with blueman [15:34] brainwash: ubuntu-desktop pulls in gnome-bluetooth explicitly so that at least wouldn't be broken if the Recommends is demoted [15:34] ah ok [15:35] also one odd thing I noticed, some basic packages got installed, but seem missing in the archive, at least them appear as "local or old" packages in synpatic [15:35] like? [15:36] language-pack-* and libc6 packages [15:36] no clue [15:36] hmm [15:37] as I said just going through the things I noticed after the install today [15:37] brainwash: I'm looking at the lubuntu seed and I see they explicitly don't have gnome-bluetooth pulled in, trying to check why [15:38] jhenke: maybe file a bug report, or ask in #ubuntu-devel [15:38] ah, no-follow-recommends :( [15:38] in the archive there seems to a ubuntu4 but installed got a ubuntu5... [15:39] cyphermox: for every package? [15:39] yeah [15:39] wow [15:39] it's a global feature [15:39] not something unless you want to spend the whole of this week and the next figuring out why your desktop is no longer showing :P [15:40] :D [15:42] hm, demoting the Recommends would affect mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio though [15:42] brainwash: is there already a bug for this issue? [15:43] ideally there should be one, and then we should check with mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio whether they want gnome-bluetooth or if it's just in by accident, and ask them to add it to their seed if it's really wanted [15:44] yep [15:44] no bug yet I guess [15:44] shouldn't be too hard to catch studio... [15:44] zequence! [15:44] ah, I was just about to ping in the channel :) [15:50] im installing xubuntu 14.04 and stock at config bcmwl-kernel-source, do you have any idea how can i continue, in advance thanks [15:51] i mean i canot continue installing the distro [15:54] xubuntu370 if I see it correctly that is related to kernel modules and support for some broadcom wlan [15:54] do you have any output, indicating why it does not continue? [15:54] yes probably [15:55] nothing only stop de instalation [15:55] to me it seems like a general installer/kernel issue and not xubuntu specific [15:56] I guess we cannot help you much here, I guess the installer/kernel guys might have more insight into ti [15:56] so...i can stop installing the distro and this it? [15:57] you can file a bug and try to get somebody from the kernel or installer team look into the issue [15:57] where are i can find tham? [15:57] them? [15:58] I guess #ubuntu-devel / #ubuntu-kernel is a good start, sorry that we cannot help you [15:59] in any case a bug report is always a good start [15:59] at contrary thanks you [15:59] and then bring that bug to the attention of the responsible developers [16:00] you are welcome, but be aware there a lots of bug reports every day, you have to be persistent to get the attention for your specific bug ;) [16:00] especially now right before final release :) [16:01] whats up if only turn off the pc?????? [16:01] knome: We're happy to have what you have. You already have something else for blueooth [16:01] ? [16:02] yes, blueman [16:02] xubuntu370 you can try if that bug is also present in an older version and try that for the time being until the bug is resolved [16:03] zequence, you currently don't ship that though [16:03] knome: Oh.. I did go trough your seeds before, to try make ours align with yours, but that was some time ago [16:03] let me check.. [16:04] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.trusty/desktop [16:04] no blueman [16:04] be back in 45mins or so [16:04] nope [16:04] thnaks , i will turn off the pc and i going to disconnect [16:09] cyphermox: No bug report about the bluetooth issue? [16:10] (Not the best day to be working with source code, hrm) [16:14] brainwash did you write a bug report already? [16:17] bbl [16:20] zequence: what? [16:21] I was saying someone should open a bug about this issue of extra packages pulled in to xubuntu [16:22] and then we can fix that by fixing both the ubuntustudio seed to pull in blueman if needed (or gnome-bluetooth), and network-manager-gnome to stop recommending gnome-bluetooth and make it suggest instead [16:23] cyphermox: We'll go with your selection. If there is a bug report, I'd just like to add it to the commits, and so forth [16:23] oh for sure [16:23] what's why I was asking for brainwash or someone who experiences the problem to file the bug [16:24] The idea is we fully base our DE on an existing one - in the future, we will be supporting several [16:24] Ah, ok [16:24] then if I or someone else makes the n-m-gnome changes, it will be in changelog, and it will be in the commit for the seeds so we can track why things changed the way they did [16:25] I'm trying to convince someone to do the n-m-gnome change so I can sponsor it and not spend too much time on this today [16:50] elfy, re: studio/myth- [16:51] we want to make gnome-bluetooth only a suggest for network manager [16:52] but if/when we do that, studio/myth need to pull that in manually if they still want it [16:52] or alternatively, leave in unseeded or add blueman to their seed [16:52] (that's what we use for bluetooth stuff) [16:53] so at most it's three changes: one for the nm package and two for the myth/studio seeds [16:53] ok - thanks [16:53] if we go that route, xubuntu packages itself shouldn't need any changes [16:54] and that would fix both the "we have multiple bluetooth stacks" and the ibus issue [16:54] yep [17:13] elfy: please try to reproduce bug 1210898 with thunar-volman from my PPA [17:13] bug 1210898 in thunar-volman (Ubuntu) "Thunar does not automatically mount removable drives and media" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210898 [17:14] I'm already marked as affected by it [17:14] all I've got to do is plug in my sansa clip and I'll be affected by it probably - it's been recognised once in 10 times this week [17:15] great [17:15] not really [17:15] it's enough to make me use windows [17:16] why not? this way you can test my patched thunar-volman :) [17:16] and it's not thunar to be honest - doesn't matter what file manager I have - if it's not recognised - then it's not recognised in any of them [17:16] even if the filemanager is open? [17:17] well, thunar relies on thunar-volman to automount devices [17:17] so far no one could confirm this problem in 14.04 [17:18] recently I mean [17:18] brainwash: no file manager open - plug it in - if it is recognised then that's ok - but if it isn't then you could use any file manager you want to pull your hair out [17:20] brainwash that bug was reference in a beta1 test result [17:20] so not sure why you say that [17:26] alright [17:26] just need some feedback for the patch [17:27] otherwise we need to SRU it later [17:27] in case the patch helps [17:33] brainwash: sorry - got sidetracked [17:33] I can test it of course :) [17:34] thanks [17:35] is it in your ppa? [17:36] yes [17:38] now? [17:39] now what? I've uploaded it 2 days ago [17:39] see comment #11 :) [17:39] oh ok - wasn't aware [17:40] I don't bother looking at that bug - been putting up with the issue for ages ... [17:40] new kernel apparently ... [17:40] maybe we can finally fix it in trusty :) [17:46] brainwash, clean install 13.10 -> 14.04 [17:47] Present: bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203 [17:47]