[02:05] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: looks good to me
[02:05] <bluesabre> you have upload rights to parole, right?
[07:28] <jhenke> good morning folks
[09:32] <knome> slickymasterWork, so yeah...
[09:32] <knome> maybe we should make it a generic note
[09:32] <knome> saying disabling the compositor can help with performance a lot, including virtualized environments
[09:33] <knome> Unit193, are we even shipping it? :P
[09:33] <Unit193> Nope, that's why I wasn't talking in here. :P
[09:33] <knome> it's fine here
[09:34] <Unit193> Used to be(?) an Xfce project, seems Xfce contributors still work on it at least.
[09:34] <knome> mmh, well then i'm not as enthusiastic about it (didn't come to think that the last time), but would still be nice
[09:34] <slickymasterWork> just a second please
[09:34] <knome> we should use some time to really dig into the seed for 14.10
[09:37] <knome> brb, booting desktop
[09:54] <Noskcaj> bluesabre, I completely forgot i had that power. I'll check with the release team, then upload
[09:54] <bluesabre> Noskcaj, fantastic.  :-)
[10:03] <slickymasterWork> sorry guys, but the DHCP started to act crazy and revoking the IP leases to the machines over here
[10:19] <Noskcaj> new parole uploaded
[11:09] <brainwash> c'mon, lets fix the remaining -bugs :)
[11:10] <slickymasterWork> brainwash: in the process of clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04
[11:10] <brainwash> that's great
[11:10] <slickymasterWork> besides bug 1304128 do you want me to check anything else?
[11:10] <brainwash> the usual checks I guess
[11:11] <brainwash> if everything is working fine
[11:11] <brainwash> with the old panel layout especially
[11:11] <slickymasterWork> ok, after this I'll go 13.10 -> 14.04
[11:13] <brainwash> thanks
[11:14] <slickymasterWork> np
[11:18] <starrats> just curious is the 'sound/volume app' for your speakers/headsets that sits on the top next to the clock and other icons getting fixed?
[11:20] <brainwash> what's broken about it?
[11:20] <brainwash> it should not be missing since yesterday, if you mean this
[11:26] <starrats> should I be able to find it on the Panel to add it on?
[11:32] <brainwash> you one need to add the indicator plugin to your panel
[11:33] <brainwash> in case it's missing
[11:34] <brainwash> and make sure that your system is up-to-date
[11:35] <starrats> my system is always up to date every day I do update/upgrade and thank you for that info, will add it on now it was missing.
[11:38] <starrats> well the 'indicator plugin' was there but I mean the little icon for volume control is not there, you know going from 'mute' to full blast' icon is still missing
[11:42] <bluesabre> after you updated, did you logout/restart?
[11:43] <bluesabre> Noskcaj: thanks!
[11:46] <starrats> yes I did bluesabre
[11:47] <starrats> I had to go to pulseaudio on multimedia to get a louder volume on my headset
[11:47] <starrats> but the icon would be nice to have again
[11:49] <bluesabre> hm
[11:49] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[12:00] <starrats> thought there was a bug report filed on this missing icon from the panel?  That's why i hadn't filed one, someone else beat me to it.
[12:02] <brainwash> yes, and it should be fixed
[12:02] <brainwash> bug 1302571
[12:03] <brainwash> so, please create a new user account to confirm that it does not on your system
[12:03] <brainwash> and make sure that "indicator-sound" is still installed
[12:04] <elfy> booting todays daily - will check
[12:04] <elfy> sound indicator present
[12:05] <elfy> so is ibus :|
[12:05] <starrats> okay will look and update today's updates/upgrades
[12:05] <elfy> starrats: it doesn't matter if you update - if you've done something that stops the indicators showing :)
[12:06] <elfy> knome: ibus is still present in todays daily
[12:07] <starrats> I have done nothing to lose that indicator sound icon, it's not in the panel/items to add screen
[12:07] <elfy> it won't be - it's part of indicator-plugin
[12:08] <elfy> check it's not deactivated in settings - session - autostart
[12:11] <knome> mr :P
[12:12] <elfy> who's mr :P? is he like Mr T ?
[12:12] <knome> ...
[12:13] <elfy> so there is a mr for it - just not actioned?
[12:13] <knome> lol
[12:13] <knome> no
[12:13] <knome> sorry for being ambiguous
[12:13] <knome> bluesabre, ochosi: did you take action to get the ibus dropping in the seed uploaded?
[12:14] <knome> elfy, FTR, both sean and simon have access to our branches now
[12:14] <knome> so we barely need merge requests for those
[12:14] <knome> now the only thing we need to care about is uploading
[12:14] <elfy> ok cool - I thought I saw micah say that
[12:14] <knome> yep, not sure if it has come up already
[12:14] <elfy> saw it in -ot
[12:15] <elfy> just so long as it's done before Thursday or I'll be -1 to releasing with it ;)
[12:15] <knome> ;)
[12:15] <knome> british...
[12:15]  * knome shakes head
[12:15] <elfy> lol
[12:16] <knome> but yyyyeah, we should take care of it
[12:18] <starrats> thanks elfy, brainwash and others, I had to check the indicator sound like elfy said and restarted the comp, all is good now, i learn something new everyday from one of you, :)
[12:21] <elfy> knome: saw that - thanks :)
[12:21] <knome> np..
[12:27] <knome> micahg, around?
[12:27] <knome> oh shoo. :)
[12:28] <elfy> saw that - lovely :|
[12:28] <elfy> back later 
[12:29] <elfy> never saw the manifest or germinate-output before 
[12:32] <knome> i think it's one of those things that i can look at, but won't understand enough to come up with anything sane
[12:34] <knome> tip: only run in a directory that do not have files you don't want to get lost
[12:36] <ochosi> knome: ibus should be dropped already
[12:36] <ochosi> at least it is gone from the seed
[12:36] <knome> ochosi, it gets pulled in by unity-control-center
[12:36] <knome> ochosi, which is pulled in by gnome-bluetooth
[12:36] <ochosi> great
[12:36] <ochosi> i thought we shipped blueman?
[12:36] <knome> the alternative to unity-control-center is gnome-control-center
[12:37] <ochosi> that's both terrible
[12:37] <knome> yeah..
[12:37] <ochosi> why can't they make the alternative xfce4-settings-manager? :)
[12:37] <knome> hey, we probably could
[12:37] <jhenke> just did a fresh install of the RC, it seems there are now two clocks in the panel
[12:37] <jhenke> I also noticed a whole bunch of unity control settings and deamons pulled in
[12:37] <knome> ochosi, but would it have bluetooth configuration stuff without those other -control-center packages?
[12:38] <ochosi> i'm using gnome-bluetooth currently (or is it bluetooth indicator?) and this is what i get when i go to "bluetooth settings..." in the menu: http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-2014-04-11-143817.php
[12:39] <knome> so no luck?
[12:39] <ochosi> well that's empty, there's no bt settings there
[12:39] <ochosi> but frankly, it doesn't seem very needed
[12:39] <knome> ah, and that's the gnome-control-center?
[12:39] <ochosi> you can switch bt on/off in the indicator
[12:39] <ochosi> yeah
[12:39] <knome> mmright...
[12:39] <ochosi> you can add/remove/configure devices
[12:39] <ochosi> you can make your adaptor discoverable
[12:40] <ochosi> that's all i need
[12:40] <knome> ochosi, please follow -release and HALP!
[12:40] <knome> ;)
[12:41] <ochosi> so this is that thing i'm using: http://imagebin.org/305049
[12:41] <ochosi> seems comprehensive enough on its own
[12:41] <knome> hmm,
[12:41] <ochosi> let me check what it actually is...
[12:41] <knome> yeah...
[12:42] <jhenke> ny the way, why is the whole bluetooth stack installed anyway by default? even if the device does not have any bluetooth
[12:42] <knome> jhenke, because it isn't "possible" to check if a user has bluetooth devices or not
[12:43] <knome> or even if it was, they should all be connected and recognised during installation
[12:43] <ochosi> knome: so i'm using indicator-bluetooth + gnome-bluetooth. and that pulls in all the evil stuff.
[12:43] <knome> yep
[12:43] <ochosi> knome: problem is: we might need to patch indicator-bluetooth a la indicator-sound/power
[12:43] <knome> aha
[12:43] <knome> what would that fix?
[12:43] <ochosi> in our case: to hide the "bluetooth settings..." menuitem
[12:43] <knome> okay
[12:43] <jhenke> not pulling in all the gnome/unity stuff?
[12:44] <ochosi> jhenke: well that menuitem is the sole reason those -control-centers are pulled in
[12:44] <knome> i'm *definitely* not experienced enough here, but it sounds like stupid pulling those in...
[12:44] <ochosi> knome: i'll be back in a bit, do you know why we switched away from blueman?
[12:44] <jhenke> ochosi I know, I tryied to point out that a patch is needed to *not* pull all that into the installtion
[12:45] <knome> i never was completely on top of it, but i think we never switched away from anything
[12:45] <knome> at least for trusty: it was discussed, and the outcome was: let's keep what we have
[12:46] <jhenke> by the way there was also some other new item in the panel, something related to the input
[12:47] <jhenke> that loook much like it also lived in the unity-control-center
[13:08] <brainwash> yeah, stop the unity infection!
[13:10] <jhenke> I came to xubuntu to get rid of unity...
[13:13] <knome> stop the FUD, fix the bugs :)
[13:13] <jhenke> if I only knew where to start....
[13:33] <ochosi> knome: so actually we seed blueman
[13:34] <knome> aha..
[13:34] <knome> so why is gnome-bluetooth seeded?
[13:34] <knome> :)
[13:36] <slickymasterWork> brainwash: brainwash, clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04
[13:37] <slickymasterWork> Present -> bug 1274548, bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203
[13:37] <ochosi> knome: no clue, i'm not that familiar with the seed stuff
[13:37] <ochosi> that xfdesktop bug should be marked as wontfix imo
[13:37] <slickymasterWork> brainwash: gThumb is still present and the old app-menu is default instead of Whisker
[13:38] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: also, is the xscreensaver thingy really a problem?
[13:38] <knome> ochosi, i can mark it, but with what rationale?
[13:38] <ochosi> yeah that's also expected, user conf doesn't get overridden and apps don't get removed generally
[13:38] <slickymasterWork> not me ochosi, I was checking it as per brainwash's request
[13:38] <slickymasterWork> not present bug 1210898, bug 1302571
[13:38] <ochosi> knome: the thing is that with the current implementation it won't be possible to show network drives in the same way as thunar
[13:39] <knome> okay
[13:39] <ochosi> knome: the technical reason is gio
[13:39] <ochosi> but i don't think we need to explain that
[13:39] <brainwash> slickymasterWork: thanks
[13:39] <knome> yeah, so the right thing is
[13:39] <knome> will need to be fixed upstream
[13:39] <brainwash> but it's not won't fix
[13:39] <knome> so the bug is wishlist?
[13:39] <brainwash> no
[13:39] <knome> at least for xubuntu..
[13:39] <slickymasterWork> will start now clean install 13.10 -> 14.04
[13:40] <knome> brainwash, i know it isn't right now, i'm talking about what it should be
[13:40] <brainwash> you can enabled to show network shares in the settings dialog of xfdesktop, so it's an incomplete feature
[13:40] <slickymasterWork> anyone needs any sort of verification regarding a this scenario clean install of 12.04 -> 14.04?
[13:40] <brainwash> just leave it open :)
[13:40] <knome> ochosi, ^ do you agree?
[13:41] <slickymasterWork> not duable brainwash, I'm getting short of disk space for VM
[13:41] <knome> i'm dropping it from the blueprint
[13:41] <ochosi> knome: so anyway, wrt the bluetooth issue, i have no clue what's going on there, but the previous plan to patch indicator-bt is obviously bollocks, cause it's not installed/in use :)
[13:41] <knome> slickymasterWork, he was replying to me
[13:41] <brainwash> slickymasterWork: I meant to leave the bug report open
[13:41] <slickymasterWork> lol
[13:41] <knome> ochosi, hehe
[13:41] <brainwash> :)
[13:42] <slickymasterWork> ok whipping it and starting with 13.10 -> 14.04 
[13:42] <ochosi> so hopefully one of you can look into why we're pulling unity seemingly and gnome-bluetooth
[13:42] <ochosi> i guess it's some nasty depends/recommends chain
[13:42] <knome> is bug 1304128 a problem?
[13:43] <knome> shouldn't it be wontfix?
[13:43] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: ^
[13:43] <ochosi> that was what i was asking before
[13:43] <slickymasterWork> on the light of your reasoning, yes
[13:43] <ochosi> i think it shouldn't be a problem apart from possibly conflicting auto-lock times...
[13:43] <knome> or: is there any downsides of having both installed?
[13:44] <knome> let's put it another way
[13:44] <slickymasterWork> thing is, will users unsderstand it?
[13:44] <knome> the bug described isn't really a bug, it's a feature (both are kept)
[13:44] <knome> am i right?
[13:44] <ochosi> knome: well as i said...
[13:44] <knome> there *might* be another bug involved with that, but that's not related to this one
[13:45] <brainwash> disk space concerns?
[13:45] <brainwash> :D
[13:45] <knome> hah
[13:45] <slickymasterWork> shouldn't that at least be mentioned in the Release notes, knome?
[13:45] <slickymasterWork> I mean bug 130428
[13:45] <slickymasterWork> ups, not that one
[13:46] <slickymasterWork> bug 1304128
[13:46] <knome> well i guess ww could mention that "if you are having problems with autolocking times, remove xscreensaver
[13:46] <ochosi> yeah, we could mention it
[13:46] <ochosi> also in that article about locking
[13:46] <knome> mhm
[13:47] <slickymasterWork> just as a heads up for users, or we might get into a situation facing several users nagging about it
[13:47] <ochosi> anyway, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/xubuntu-meta/trusty/view/head:/desktop-recommends-amd64#L10
[13:47] <ochosi> that's wrt bluetooth ^
[13:47] <ochosi> bbl
[13:52] <knome> slickymasterWork, i guess you didn't hit bug 1303736 (dup of bug 1259339)
[13:54] <slickymasterWork> no knome, but I wouldn't be able to anyway. At work, just desktop, no lappies
[13:54] <knome> yep
[14:27] <brainwash> Noskcaj: is this ok? should the patch be applied or just added to debian/patches? https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling
[14:57] <brainwash> ochosi: so, do we know why the additional unity stuff is pulled in?
[14:58] <brainwash> I mean, do we need further investigation? :)
[14:59] <knome> probably good to double-check but it seems it's gnome-bluetooth pulling that in
[15:05] <brainwash> looks like network-manager-gnome recommends gnome-bluetooth
[15:06] <knome> that is... kind of understandable, but debatable
[15:06] <knome> maybe it could suggest it
[15:06] <brainwash> maybe recommend it or blueman
[15:07] <brainwash> if network-manager-gnome really is the start of the dependency chain
[15:07] <cyphermox> moo?
[15:08] <brainwash> do you agree?
[15:08] <cyphermox> I explicitly don't know without looking
[15:09] <brainwash> network-manager-gnome -> gnome-bluetooth -> unity awesomeness
[15:09] <jhenke> brainwash I guess you hit the nail
[15:10] <jhenke> other problematics are indicaor-keyboard and indicator-datetime
[15:11] <cyphermox> don't you pull in gnome-control-center?
[15:11] <brainwash> why would we?
[15:11] <jhenke> cyphermox we should rather not
[15:11] <knome> no, we have xfce4-settings-manager
[15:11] <cyphermox> ok
[15:11] <cyphermox> well then maybe it should be an extra alternate recommends in gnome-bluetooth?
[15:12] <knome> i've suggested that, and it's one option
[15:12] <brainwash> but do we need gnome-bluetooth?
[15:12] <brainwash> we have blueman
[15:12] <cyphermox> given blueman maybe you don't
[15:12] <jhenke> is there already a bug open about this?
[15:13] <brainwash> so we need to tell network-manager-gnome to recommend gnome-bluetooth or blueman
[15:13] <cyphermox> I don't think n-m-gnome pulling in gnome-bluetooth pulling in gnome-control-center is new, though, so I'm a little surprised it's only an issue now :)
[15:14] <cyphermox> brainwash: not sure, it recommends gnome-bluetooth because nm-applet ships a gnome-bluetooth plugin
[15:14] <cyphermox> so it probably could be dropped to a Suggest
[15:14] <jhenke> I am also surprised when I did a frash isntallation of the RC today and gound all those extra indicators that should not be in xfce
[15:15] <brainwash> this might be only the result of the dependency chain
[15:16] <brainwash> you did not notice the extra indicators before, because we've changed xfce4-indicator-plugin just yesterday
[15:16] <knome> bbiab
[15:16] <brainwash> so now it loads all installed indicators
[15:17] <jhenke> brainwash okay that explains a lot
[15:18] <brainwash> like -datetime which was/is hidden in our settings manager
[15:18] <brainwash> or -session
[15:18] <jhenke> I do think it is important that we get rid off all those extra indicators, especially as xubuntu is also used on weak platforms (e.g. netbooks) where every mb ram counts
[15:19] <brainwash> we only intended to ship 4: -application -messages -power -sound
[15:20] <jhenke> great, so we all want the same, question is, how to get those extra ones out of the default install?
[15:21] <brainwash> by not letting gnome-bluetooth pull in unity-settings-daemon and all the additional stuff
[15:22] <cyphermox> brainwash: where are the seeds for xubuntu?
[15:22] <jhenke> do you think the extra idicators also came by that?
[15:22] <brainwash> I guess so
[15:22] <brainwash> cyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.trusty
[15:22] <cyphermox> jhenke: yes, unity-control-center pulls in the indicators
[15:23] <brainwash> oh, meant unity-control-center :)
[15:26] <cyphermox> ok, so I guess I could drop gnome-bluetooth from Recommends to Suggests
[15:27] <cyphermox> or if someone from the xubuntu team wants to do the diff, get the credit, and bug the release team themselves to land this in, I will not object at all :)
[15:28] <jhenke> I guess the important thing is to get it laned :)
[15:30] <jhenke> by the way, I saw ibus got dropped from the seed, but was installed anyway today
[15:30] <brainwash> most likely the same reason
[15:32] <brainwash> cyphermox: why not add blueman as alternate recommends?
[15:33] <jhenke> brainwash okay, just going the things that I noticed
[15:33] <brainwash> so we don't break the initial recommend
[15:33] <cyphermox> brainwash: I don't think it makes sense, n-m-gnome isn't doing anything with blueman
[15:34] <cyphermox> brainwash: ubuntu-desktop pulls in gnome-bluetooth explicitly so that at least wouldn't be broken if the Recommends is demoted
[15:34] <brainwash> ah ok
[15:35] <jhenke> also one odd thing I noticed, some basic packages got installed, but seem missing in the archive, at least them appear as "local or old" packages in synpatic
[15:35] <brainwash> like?
[15:36] <jhenke> language-pack-* and libc6 packages
[15:36] <brainwash> no clue
[15:36] <cyphermox> hmm
[15:37] <jhenke> as I said just going through the things I noticed after the install today
[15:37] <cyphermox> brainwash: I'm looking at the lubuntu seed and I see they explicitly don't have gnome-bluetooth pulled in, trying to check why
[15:38] <brainwash> jhenke: maybe file a bug report, or ask in #ubuntu-devel
[15:38] <cyphermox> ah, no-follow-recommends :(
[15:38] <jhenke> in the archive there seems to a ubuntu4 but installed got a ubuntu5...
[15:39] <brainwash> cyphermox: for every package?
[15:39] <cyphermox> yeah
[15:39] <brainwash> wow
[15:39] <cyphermox> it's a global feature
[15:39] <cyphermox> not something unless you want to spend the whole of this week and the next figuring out why your desktop is no longer showing :P
[15:40] <brainwash> :D
[15:42] <cyphermox> hm, demoting the Recommends would affect mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio though
[15:42] <cyphermox> brainwash: is there already a bug for this issue?
[15:43] <cyphermox> ideally there should be one, and then we should check with mythbuntu and ubuntu-studio whether they want gnome-bluetooth or if it's just in by accident, and ask them to add it to their seed if it's really wanted
[15:44] <knome> yep
[15:44] <brainwash> no bug yet I guess
[15:44] <knome> shouldn't be too hard to catch studio...
[15:44] <knome> zequence!
[15:44] <cyphermox> ah, I was just about to ping in the channel :)
[15:50] <xubuntu370> im installing xubuntu 14.04 and stock at config bcmwl-kernel-source, do you have any idea how can i continue, in advance thanks
[15:51] <xubuntu370> i mean i canot continue installing the distro
[15:54] <jhenke> xubuntu370 if I see it correctly that is related to kernel modules and support for some broadcom wlan
[15:54] <jhenke> do you have any output, indicating why it does not continue?
[15:54] <xubuntu370> yes probably
[15:55] <xubuntu370> nothing only stop de instalation 
[15:55] <jhenke> to me it seems like a general installer/kernel issue and not xubuntu specific
[15:56] <jhenke> I guess we cannot help you much here, I guess the installer/kernel guys might have more insight into ti
[15:56] <xubuntu370> so...i can stop installing the distro and this it?
[15:57] <jhenke> you can file a bug and try to get somebody from the kernel or installer team look into the issue
[15:57] <xubuntu370> where are i can find tham?
[15:57] <xubuntu370> them?
[15:58] <jhenke> I guess #ubuntu-devel / #ubuntu-kernel is a good start, sorry that we cannot help you
[15:59] <jhenke> in any case a bug report is always a good start
[15:59] <xubuntu370> at contrary thanks you
[15:59] <jhenke> and then bring that bug to the attention of the responsible developers
[16:00] <jhenke> you are welcome, but be aware there a lots of bug reports every day, you have to be persistent to get the attention for your specific bug ;)
[16:00] <brainwash> especially now right before final release :)
[16:01] <xubuntu370> whats up if only turn off the pc??????
[16:01] <zequence> knome: We're happy to have what you have. You already have something else for blueooth
[16:01] <zequence> ?
[16:02] <knome> yes, blueman
[16:02] <jhenke> xubuntu370 you can try if that bug is also present in an older version and try that for the time being until the bug is resolved
[16:03] <knome> zequence, you currently don't ship that though
[16:03] <zequence> knome: Oh.. I did go trough your seeds before, to try make ours align with yours, but that was some time ago
[16:03] <zequence> let me check..
[16:04] <knome> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntustudio.trusty/desktop
[16:04] <knome> no blueman
[16:04] <knome> be back in 45mins or so
[16:04] <zequence> nope
[16:04] <xubuntu370> thnaks , i will turn off the pc and i going to disconnect
[16:09] <zequence> cyphermox: No bug report about the bluetooth issue?
[16:10] <zequence> (Not the best day to be working with source code, hrm)
[16:14] <jhenke> brainwash did you write a bug report already?
[16:17] <jhenke> bbl
[16:20] <cyphermox> zequence: what?
[16:21] <cyphermox> I was saying someone should open a bug about this issue of extra packages pulled in to xubuntu
[16:22] <cyphermox> and then we can fix that by fixing both the ubuntustudio seed to pull in blueman if needed (or gnome-bluetooth), and network-manager-gnome to stop recommending gnome-bluetooth and make it suggest instead
[16:23] <zequence> cyphermox: We'll go with your selection. If there is a bug report, I'd just like to add it to the commits, and so forth
[16:23] <cyphermox> oh for sure
[16:23] <cyphermox> what's why I was asking for brainwash or someone who experiences the problem to file the bug
[16:24] <zequence> The idea is we fully base our DE on an existing one - in the future, we will be supporting several
[16:24] <zequence> Ah, ok
[16:24] <cyphermox> then if I or someone else makes the n-m-gnome changes, it will be in changelog, and it will be in the commit for the seeds so we can track why things changed the way they did
[16:25] <cyphermox> I'm trying to convince someone to do the n-m-gnome change so I can sponsor it and not spend too much time on this today
[16:50] <knome> elfy, re: studio/myth-
[16:51] <knome> we want to make gnome-bluetooth only a suggest for network manager
[16:52] <knome> but if/when we do that, studio/myth need to pull that in manually if they still want it
[16:52] <knome> or alternatively, leave in unseeded or add blueman to their seed
[16:52] <knome> (that's what we use for bluetooth stuff)
[16:53] <knome> so at most it's three changes: one for the nm package and two for the myth/studio seeds
[16:53] <elfy> ok - thanks
[16:53] <knome> if we go that route, xubuntu packages itself shouldn't need any changes
[16:54] <knome> and that would fix both the "we have multiple bluetooth stacks" and the ibus issue
[16:54] <elfy> yep
[17:13] <brainwash> elfy: please try to reproduce bug 1210898 with thunar-volman from my PPA
[17:14] <elfy> I'm already marked as affected by it
[17:14] <elfy> all I've got to do is plug in my sansa clip and I'll be affected by it probably - it's been recognised once in 10 times this week
[17:15] <brainwash> great
[17:15] <elfy> not really
[17:15] <elfy> it's enough to make me use windows 
[17:16] <brainwash> why not? this way you can test my patched thunar-volman :)
[17:16] <elfy> and it's not thunar to be honest - doesn't matter what file manager I have - if it's not recognised - then it's not recognised in any of them
[17:16] <brainwash> even if the filemanager is open?
[17:17] <brainwash> well, thunar relies on thunar-volman to automount devices
[17:17] <brainwash> so far no one could confirm this problem in 14.04
[17:18] <brainwash> recently I mean
[17:18] <elfy> brainwash: no file manager open - plug it in - if it is recognised then that's ok - but if it isn't then you could use any file manager you want to pull your hair out
[17:20] <elfy> brainwash that bug was reference in a beta1 test result
[17:20] <elfy> so not sure why you say that
[17:26] <brainwash> alright
[17:26] <brainwash> just need some feedback for the patch
[17:27] <brainwash> otherwise we need to SRU it later
[17:27] <brainwash> in case the patch helps
[17:33] <elfy> brainwash: sorry - got sidetracked
[17:33] <elfy> I can test it of course :)
[17:34] <brainwash> thanks
[17:35] <elfy> is it in your ppa?
[17:36] <brainwash> yes
[17:38] <elfy> now?
[17:39] <brainwash> now what? I've uploaded it 2 days ago
[17:39] <brainwash> see comment #11 :)
[17:39] <elfy> oh ok - wasn't aware
[17:40] <elfy> I don't bother looking at that bug - been putting up with the issue for ages ... 
[17:40] <elfy> new kernel apparently ...
[17:40] <brainwash> maybe we can finally fix it in trusty :)
[17:46] <slickymasterWork> brainwash, clean install 13.10 -> 14.04
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> Present: bug 1304128, bug 1284914, bug 1261203
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> gThumb is still present and the old app-menu is default instead of Whisker
[17:47] <slickymasterWork> Not present: bug 1210898, bug 1302571, bug 1274548
[17:47] <elfy> brainwash: ok well that's new - plugged it in and thunar actually opened ... 
[17:47] <brainwash> slickymasterWork: awesome, thanks a lot for the detailed feedback :)
[17:47] <elfy> slickymasterWork: with an upgrade things like whisker won't be there 
[17:48] <slickymasterWork> I'm aware elfy. Just reporting as a good -qa member :)
[17:48] <brainwash> elfy: it opened.... and? did it also mount the device?
[17:49] <elfy> brainwash: opened twice - as expected - 2 partitions
[17:49] <elfy> yep both mounted 
[17:49] <brainwash> that's great
[17:49] <brainwash> but maybe you were just lucky this time?
[17:49] <elfy> I shall be in and out over the next day or so looking at this 
[17:49] <elfy> yea - exactly ^^
[17:49] <brainwash> ok :)
[17:49] <slickymasterWork> and like your friendly neighbor spiderman, passed the all day with the -qa disguise, both for Unit193 and brainwash sake
[17:50] <elfy> brainwash: though even if it got recognised - they never actually mounted and opened - had to do that myself, so that is an improvement
[17:51] <slickymasterWork> and that's enough testing for one day
[17:51] <elfy> :)
[17:52] <ochosi> cyphermox: hey, just to be sure, did you need any help from us with the nm-gnome thingy or will you handle it? (just trying to keep an overview of the todos)
[17:52] <cyphermox> I don't really need help to do if it you want me to
[17:52] <knome> cyphermox, that would be awesome :)
[17:52] <cyphermox> I was giving a chance if someone wants to do the diff and get a sponsored upload
[17:53] <cyphermox> is there a bug open yet?
[17:53] <knome> at this point, i think it's better to "just do it"
[17:53] <knome> no, there isn't a bug
[17:53] <cyphermox> ok
[17:53] <knome> afaik...
[17:53] <cyphermox> what's the word from mythbuntu?
[17:54] <knome> i'm just looking who's with them
[17:54] <knome> they seem to have bluez
[17:54] <cyphermox> yes
[17:54] <cyphermox> but they're not explicitly pulling in gnome-bluetooth via seeds
[17:55] <knome> mario...yeah, let me ping him
[17:56] <ochosi> thanks cyphermox!
[17:56] <ochosi> it's much appreciated
[17:58] <knome> PM'd superm1, waiting for a reply
[17:59] <cyphermox> ok
[18:11] <elfy> brainwash: ok - so it is now at 50% success rate ... 
[18:17] <jhenke> would be awsome if we can get the image of tomorrow clean of thos additional presents :)
[18:56] <elfy> brainwash: looking better now after a reboot, 4 out of 5 times it has actually mounted and opened
[18:57] <brainwash> elfy: ok, that's an improvement
[18:58] <elfy> indeed - generally in 5 I'd be expecting none to work
[19:09] <brainwash> I could increase the timeout to 2 seconds (up from 1 second), the original patch specified 5 seconds
[19:10] <brainwash> so, time to prepare the branch
[19:13] <elfy> I did have one instance where it mounted the main drive in it - but failed to mount the sd card - though they were both there
[19:15] <RFleming> I understand there's some testing going on with thunar and USB
[19:15] <knome> brainwash, prod RFleming to the right direction
[19:16] <RFleming> brainwash, be gentle.  I bruise easily
[19:16] <RFleming> :D
[19:19] <elfy> RFleming: add the ppa https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/test
[19:19] <elfy> upgrade thunar-volman - check that usb's and the like actually mount 
[19:19] <RFleming> elfy, alright, give me a moment.
[19:19] <elfy> assuming you've been affected by the bug in which they don't
[19:20] <RFleming> what's the but #?
[19:20] <RFleming> bug #
[19:21] <elfy> bug 1210898
[19:21] <RFleming> USB devices mount properly on my end
[19:21] <RFleming> well not automagically
[19:22] <RFleming> ok, yes... after installing exfat-utils, it mounted my key
[19:23] <RFleming> it only seems to auto mount 1 key at a time
[19:24] <RFleming> I've repeated it with several keys now.  The first one auto-mounts, the second does not.  If I eject the first one, and re-plug in the second one, it will auto mount
[19:25] <RFleming> the same thing happens with USB hard drives with multiple partitions.  The first partition mounts, the rest do not
[19:28] <elfy> I just plugged in 4 and they all worked
[19:28] <elfy> not got exfat-utils here
[19:29] <RFleming> where do I check the automount settings?
[19:29] <RFleming> got it
[19:30] <RFleming> elfy, let me try your test PPA and see if they all mount when plugged in.
[19:30] <elfy> it's not mine - much too close to voodooery 
[19:30] <elfy> it's brainwash's :)
[19:31] <RFleming> how do I revert back? :)
[19:31] <elfy> sudo ppa-purge ppa:thad-fisch/test
[19:32] <elfy> I'm going to run with it for a day or two at least here
[19:32] <RFleming> ok, thunar-volman (0.8.0-4test1) installed
[19:33] <RFleming> ok, USB HDD with multiple partitions... they all mount
[19:33] <elfy> yea - but did they previously? 
[19:33] <RFleming> add usb exfat usb key, it mounts
[19:33] <elfy> if they did then that's not proven 
[19:33] <RFleming> add another usb key, it mounts too
[19:34] <RFleming> elfy, as I previously stated... thunar would automount the first USB key, but not the second.
[19:34] <RFleming> Thunar would mount the first partition on a USB HDD, but not the second
[19:35] <RFleming> now... with the new thunar-volman, Thunar automounts ALL partitions of the USB HDD, and when additional USB devices are attached, they mount as well.
[19:35] <RFleming> old action = first device, none of the others
[19:35] <RFleming> new action = all devices
[19:37] <RFleming> USB devices are a mix of file systems, 2 NTFS, 1 fat32, 1 exfat
[19:38] <knome> i guess that's a different problem solved...
[19:39] <RFleming> am I making sense?
[19:39] <RFleming> sometimes I wonder.
[19:39] <knome> you are
[19:40] <RFleming> knome, ok.  Just checking.
[19:41] <RFleming> Alright, I'm reverting back
[19:42] <RFleming> alright.  I've reverted back
[19:42] <RFleming> it works like the test version
[19:42] <RFleming> everything is still automounting when plugged in.
[19:43] <RFleming> oh, well not everything
[19:45] <RFleming> USB HDD with multiple partitions, only the main partition mounts.  The other does not.
[19:48] <brainwash> Noskcaj: is https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ok?
[19:49] <brainwash> well, the patch seems to improve auto-mounting and people confirmed it upstream
[19:49] <brainwash> so it's a win situation
[19:50] <knome> can approve the general direction and would argue it would be something to fix/land even after final freeze
[19:52] <brainwash> canoncial, give us 1 more week! please! :)
[19:53] <Noskcaj> brainwash, You forgot to run "update-maintainer"
[19:53] <elfy> "Ever since the new improved Whisker Menu, I find no need for the bottom panel. Up until then, I always had one. Now my Favorites take its place. Ever since the new improved Whisker Menu, I find no need for the bottom panel. Up until then, I always had one. Now my Favorites take its place. "
[19:53] <brainwash> what files does this change?
[19:54] <brainwash> can I still run it afterwards?
[19:54] <Noskcaj> Also, leave the patch unapplied for ease of review  (Where possible, only have the patches that were already applied, applied)
[19:54] <Noskcaj> and yes, it changes the maintainer in the control file
[19:54] <Noskcaj> without that, bzr-buildpackage fails
[19:54] <knome> elfy, pastefail? ;)
[19:54] <brainwash> mmh
[19:55] <Unit193> knome: He thinks if he tells himself that enough, it'll be true. ;)
[19:55] <RFleming> haha
[19:55] <knome> hah
[19:55] <elfy> knome: nope - meant to add that it's a quote from someone
[19:55] <knome> well done...
[19:55] <knome> elfy, yeah, you just pasted the quote itself twice...
[19:55] <elfy> ohhh
[19:55] <RFleming> whoosh!
[19:55] <knome> but i can agree repeating IS one of the ways to make a message strongs
[19:55] <knome> *stronger
[19:56] <knome> i don't know what i'm typing anymore
[19:56] <RFleming> definition if insanity?
[19:56] <elfy> yea pastefail then - did that just as everything went STOP as it got to the end of searching for all the image tests from trusty ... 
[19:56] <elfy> STUPID system :|
[19:56] <knome> mmh, the daily images are in better shape than i ever could think though
[19:57] <elfy> yep 
[20:00] <elfy> 3 new names on upgrade test reports
[20:01] <elfy> package testing has come to an abrupt halt - but with 230 tests and 50 bugs we should be pleased 
[20:01] <knome> yeah...
[20:01] <knome> please don't find any new bugs
[20:01] <knome> makes the stats look bad
[20:01] <knome> ;)
[20:01] <elfy> I was thinking of closing the package tracker tbh
[20:02] <elfy> marking it ready
[20:02] <knome> nah
[20:02] <elfy> then I'm on the hunt for 10 new bugs by Sunday :p
[20:02] <knome> yw :P
[20:02] <knome> i can't see much benefit on closing it
[20:03] <knome> and no cons on not closing it
[20:03] <brainwash> Noskcaj: now ok https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ?
[20:03] <elfy> knome: fair enough
[20:04] <RFleming> brainwash, as an added benefit, reverting back to the released thunar-volman, all my USB keys mount now, not just the first one :)
[20:04] <Noskcaj> brainwash, yep, all good
[20:04] <brainwash> did you restart thunar and/or thunar-volman?
[20:05] <RFleming> yes
[20:10] <RFleming> I used 4 devices.  3 USB keys, (2 USB2, 1 USB3), and a USB3 HDD enclosure.  The HDD has a Windows 7 install with 2 partitions, one SYSTEM, the other the OS.  The three USB keys have 1 partition each, the past behaviour was the first device attached got auto-mounted, the rest didn't.  With your version ALL devices/partitions auto-mounted.  Reverting back, ALL USB keys auto-mount, as does the OS partition on the HDD, but the System partitio
[20:10] <RFleming> n does not.
[20:10] <brainwash> ah ok
[20:15] <intekulan> is libreoffice supposed to look like windows 98? I don't think I remember it like this
[20:16] <Noskcaj> intekulan, I'm guessing something broke gtk for you
[20:16] <Noskcaj> But i have no idea what, or if people already know about the issue
[20:17] <Unit193> intekulan: libreoffice-gtk (or something like that) installed?
[20:17] <RFleming> or libreoffice-style-*
[20:17] <intekulan> checking
[20:17] <elfy> Unit193: it's not automatically installed 
[20:17] <intekulan> ii  libreoffice-style-galaxy 
[20:18] <elfy> or wasn't here
[20:18] <elfy> intekulan: libreoffice-gtk
[20:18] <intekulan> elfy: installing 
[20:19] <intekulan> much better :) maybe include that as dependency?
[20:19] <elfy> then it looks odd in win2k
[20:19] <intekulan> k
[20:19] <elfy> :)
[20:22] <Unit193> intekulan: It's not a dep though, you can use it without that, or with -kde, or something else maybe.  It's recommended, IIRC, so should be installed if you install 'libreoffice' the "normal" way.
[20:22] <knome> cyphermox, mythbuntu probably wants to drop bluetooth stuff for good. still waiting for a confirmation
[20:22] <elfy> I only install calc and writer
[20:23] <intekulan> I did sudo apt-get install libreoffice-writer hoping to only get the writer. :p
[20:23] <RFleming> intekulan, and you did :)
[20:23] <RFleming> what's the problem? :D
[20:23] <intekulan> Libreoffice-math
[20:24] <intekulan> oh, it's just the equation tool
[20:24] <brainwash> libreoffice.. wrong channel :P
[20:24] <brainwash> we use the fabulous abiword and gnumeric :)
[20:25] <brainwash> Logan_: you there?
[20:25] <RFleming> I just wish the fabulous orage hooked up to services :)
[20:26] <brainwash> someone has implement it
[20:26] <brainwash> has to
[20:27] <knome> lol
[20:28] <brainwash> a Xfce hackfest would be awesome
[20:28] <elfy> I could get some popcorn
[20:29] <brainwash> and do some cheerleading?
[20:29] <elfy> depends :)
[20:29] <knome> when did this channel turn into -offtopic-offtopic?
[20:29] <knome> :P
[20:29] <elfy> about 10 minutes ago ... 
[20:29] <elfy> :)
[20:30] <elfy> so - to get things back on an even keel - when are -marketing going to deal with their blueprint ... 
[20:30] <knome> nevar!
[20:30] <elfy> I see 
[20:30] <elfy> :)
[20:30] <knome> well i guess a minute before release ;)
[20:30] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[20:31] <elfy> :POSTPONED
[20:31] <knome> there are many complex work items
[20:31] <knome> which are blocked by trivial work items :P
[20:31] <elfy> ha ha ha 
[20:31] <knome> well not really
[20:31] <knome> but we're really close to having the flyer content ready
[20:31] <elfy> cool
[20:32] <knome> once that's done, i have to sit down some time with inkscape...
[20:32] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing/Projects/Flyers?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=xubuntu_flyer_draft.png
[20:32] <knome> as you see, we're almost done...
[20:33] <elfy> looks good :)
[20:44] <starrats> knome and elfy I was just glancing at that flyer, it looks great
[20:59] <starrats> One multiple question on the flyer.  How will folks be able to get this flyer and where will they be available?
[21:00] <elfy> download I expect 
[21:01] <knome> will make sure it's readily available, people can then print them at home and spread as they want
[21:02] <starrats> by the way are there still luds around?  Used to be a site online that would/could tell you if one was in your community, I belonged to one years back at Kent State University.
[21:02] <starrats> lugs
[21:03] <knome> there surely are LUGs
[21:03] <starrats> ok LUGS
[21:03] <jhenke> good night folks
[21:03] <knome> night jhenke 
[21:03] <elfy> night jhenke 
[22:00] <knome> cyphermox, ack from mythbuntu: they are ok if gnome-bluetooth is demoted to suggests
[22:01] <knome> zequence, what was it what you wanted for bluetooth stuff for studio again?
[22:06] <knome> cyphermox, humph, looking at old bugs, you have fixed this issue already...
[22:06] <knome> in 2011
[22:08] <knome> cyphermox, though it's re-raised as bug 1301045, which is now marked invalid
[22:08] <knome> cyphermox, original bug is bug 844027
[22:08] <knome> oh, hmm, that's -applet
[22:09] <knome> and the new bug isn't exactly this bug anyway, confusing things already (1am)
[22:19] <cyphermox> well, it's the same thing really
[22:19] <cyphermox> I must have forgotten about it when I did one Humongous Debian Merge (tm)
[22:21] <cyphermox> I'd still be doing this thing in applet, not elsewhere
[22:23] <knome> but we'd need it in network-manager-gnome
[22:23] <knome> aiui
[22:24] <Unit193> That's the applet.
[22:24] <knome> oookay.
[22:24] <Unit193> "This package contains a systray applet for GNOME's notification area but it also works for other desktop environments which provide a systray like KDE or Xfce"
[22:25] <knome> rright, so -applet source creates -gnome package
[22:25] <knome> right.
[22:26] <Unit193> I was going to say, because network-manager hasn't been sync'd for quite some time.
[22:26] <cyphermox> Unit193: no, it hasn't
[22:27] <knome> cyphermox, would the old bug do?
[22:27] <cyphermox> I'll reopen one shortly
[22:27] <knome> ok, i can make other flavors ack on the bug if you want
[22:53] <bluesabre> knome: yes
[22:53] <bluesabre> re: ibus
[22:54] <knome> re what ibus
[22:54] <knome> :P
[22:54] <bluesabre> re banish ibus
[22:54] <knome> hmm...
[22:54] <knome> it gets pulled in via gnome-bluetooth.
[22:55] <knome> cyphermox is looking/fixing
[22:55] <bluesabre> ah
[22:55] <bluesabre> fun
[22:55] <knome> what else is gnome-bluetooth pulling?
[22:55] <bluesabre> too much backlog
[22:55] <knome> unity-control-center! ta-dag!
[22:55] <knome> *ta-dah
[22:55] <bluesabre> ta-dang!
[22:55] <cyphermox> yes
[22:56] <knome> at least we noticed that...
[22:56] <cyphermox> I'll fix later tonight or tomorrow, currently trying to do an in-depth inventory of Lego pieces
[22:56] <knome> sounds like a priority task, thumbs up
[22:56] <knome> :)
[22:57] <knome> says the one who has been playing openttd all day
[22:57] <GridCube> its there any test i could perform on my netbook that any of you could need?
[22:59] <bluesabre> I don't have anything specific atm
[23:15] <bluesabre> ooh
[23:15] <bluesabre> iso size dropped 20mb in the past 2 days
[23:16] <bluesabre> trimming the fat
[23:16] <knome> hah, just dropping apps because they have bugs
[23:16] <knome> ;)
[23:16] <bluesabre> crap, guess my apps were pulled
[23:17] <bluesabre> I'm guessing ochosi is already away
[23:17] <knome> he's been on and off
[23:17] <knome> but not around for some time
[23:18] <bluesabre> suppose I should work on releases with translations this weekend
[23:18] <knome> maybe...
[23:24] <knome> bluesabre, tell me,
[23:24] <knome> where's the desktop right-click .menu file
[23:24] <knome> and tell me
[23:24] <knome> what's "menu manager"?
[23:25] <knome> is it brought by whiskermenu
[23:25] <bluesabre> ~/.config/menus/xfce4-applications.menu
[23:25] <bluesabre> menu manager?
[23:25] <knome> or is it... hmmm
[23:25] <knome> that must be that weird thing
[23:25] <knome> right
[23:25] <knome> i'll remove
[23:26] <bluesabre> you're not making a lot of sense...
[23:26] <knome> yeah, it was an old artefact on launchpad
[23:26] <knome> which i installed
[23:26] <knome> and now ran
[23:26] <knome> and it messed up my menu
[23:26] <bluesabre> lol
[23:26] <knome> (surprise!)
[23:26] <bluesabre> "alacarte"?
[23:26] <knome> no
[23:26] <bluesabre> :D
[23:26] <knome> xubuntu-menu-manager
[23:26] <knome> .
[23:27] <bluesabre> I recommend menulibre ;)
[23:28] <knome> should menu file changes be live immediately?
[23:29] <knome> is the latest menulibre version in a ppa for saucy?
[23:29] <knome> see, lots of questions
[23:32] <bluesabre> doesn't work in saucy
[23:33] <bluesabre> requires gnome-menus 3.10
[23:33] <bluesabre> there is a saucy package
[23:33] <bluesabre> but it will crash after every change
[23:33] <knome> hmm.
[23:33] <knome> i'm running 2.0.3 in saucy
[23:33] <knome> and it's not crashing.
[23:33] <bluesabre> lucky
[23:33] <bluesabre> :D
[23:33] <knome> heh
[23:33] <knome> so...
[23:33] <knome> how do i edit the top menu items?
[23:33] <knome> i guess no way with our current menu structure?
[23:34] <bluesabre> 2.0.3 should work
[23:34] <bluesabre> normal xfce menu or whisker?
[23:34] <knome> normal
[23:34] <knome> well, the desktop right-click menu
[23:34] <knome> so i guess normal...
[23:34] <bluesabre> should be able to edit to top-level items
[23:35] <bluesabre> the menu applications sometimes don't update immediately
[23:35] <bluesabre> give them 5 seconds
[23:35] <knome> yeah... i noticed
[23:36] <knome> so, how do i edit the top-level items?
[23:36] <knome> hmm
[23:36] <bluesabre> they should be listed
[23:36] <bluesabre> click them, edit them
[23:36] <knome> menulibre says 13.03.15...
[23:36] <knome> but apt-get says 2.0.3
[23:36] <knome> ???
[23:36] <bluesabre> ???
[23:36] <bluesabre> apt-cache policy menulibre
[23:37] <bluesabre> which one has ***
[23:37] <knome> wait no, 13.03.15
[23:37] <knome> but i can't upgrade to 2.0.3
[23:38]  * knome gives up
[23:38] <knome> i should upgrade to trusty tomorrow
[23:38] <bluesabre> apt-get remove
[23:38] <bluesabre> then install again
[23:38] <bluesabre> the 13.* packages for saucy should be gone now
[23:38] <bluesabre> remove, update, install
[23:39] <knome> mm
[23:39] <knome> yeah, that works
[23:40] <bluesabre> good news
[23:40] <bluesabre> now it should crash for you
[23:40] <bluesabre> ;)
[23:40] <knome> "should"
[23:40] <knome> yay...
[23:41]  * knome facepalms at segfaults
[23:42] <bluesabre> welcome to the future!
[23:42] <knome> but generally, good work
[23:43] <knome> if the future is a segfault, no thanks
[23:43] <bluesabre> only on saucy ;)
[23:45] <bluesabre> oh boy, more indicator updates
[23:45] <knome> heh
[23:45] <bluesabre> let's see if everything still works when I reboot
[23:46] <knome> it would be nice if there was any other way to show the separators than dashes...
[23:46] <bluesabre> I agree
[23:46] <bluesabre> but then they would not be draggable
[23:47] <knome> maybe –'s?
[23:47] <knome> would maybe make it a solid line
[23:47] <knome> (that's an emdash)
[23:48] <bluesabre> it's worth looking into
[23:48] <bluesabre> there is probably some hackery I can try
[23:49] <bluesabre> might try to improve that this weekend
[23:49] <bluesabre> Unit193: I bet you would know the answer to this:
[23:50] <bluesabre> I seem to have some things stuck in apport (can't clear them away, can't report them away)
[23:50] <bluesabre> how the heck do I make apport stop popping up?
[23:50] <bluesabre> (besides removing apport)
[23:50] <knome> bluesabre, purge.
[23:51] <bluesabre> I need to keep my environment together until release day, takes to long to put back together
[23:51] <bluesabre> *too
[23:51] <knome> ;)