[01:00] <knome> be back tomorrow; have fun
[01:35] <bluesabre> well, that's not pretty
[01:35] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305129
[01:35] <bluesabre> indicator-datetime, indicator-keyboard without an icon, ibus
[01:36] <bluesabre> maybe tomorrow's iso will look a bit better
[01:40] <Unit193> bluesabre: /var/crash/
[03:11] <OvenWerk1> Unit193: remove the files inside or the whole directory?
[04:43] <juanmontoya> Hello, has anyone considered changing the default colors of the xcfe4-terminal? Some colors are too dark to be readable... :/
[04:47] <Unit193> OvenWerk1: That was to remove bothering of crashes, the files there.
[05:11] <OvenWerk1> Unit193: Thankyou. Yes that helps.
[05:11] <Unit193> Heh, sure.
[05:12] <OvenWerk1> (switching the nvidia driver to the open one seems to help more)
[05:13] <Unit193> apport-cli can show you them.
[05:38] <jhenke> good morning
[05:54] <jhenke> morning elfy
[05:55] <elfy> hi jhenke 
[06:02] <jhenke> i guess most of the people here are still away/sleeping?
[06:03] <elfy> that and saturday :)
[06:03] <jhenke> well I had a nice little nephew waking me at 6:30 am ^^
[06:04] <jhenke> just being courious whether todays image will be clean of those extra indicators
[06:05] <elfy> I'd not count on it
[06:06] <jhenke> I have a netbook here, where I would want to install xubuntu (was my sisters running WinXP), but as it does not accept booting from USB sticks, I want a "clean" image to install it
[06:07] <elfy> I understand - all you can do is zsync ~11:00UTC and see
[06:08] <elfy> the image is 'usually' new at ~10ish
[06:08] <jhenke> yep, just still hoping it would work today ;)
[06:08] <elfy> :)
[06:12] <Unit193> elfy: Could check manifests.
[06:13] <elfy> oh yea - those things
[06:13] <elfy> not sure when that would be changed though
[06:14] <elfy> current doesn't have blueman 
[09:11] <knome> aiui, there is NO NEW IMAGES unless we request a respin
[09:48] <knome> slickymaster, have you had bug 1196625 in a long time?
[09:51] <olbi> I have still this bug from time to time :]
[09:53] <knome> wondering if the assignee is really working on it, has 2 karma on launchpad and no memberships
[09:53] <knome> sorry, 5 lp karma...
[09:59] <olbi> why installer is still in english and my own lang when I choose my lang? there should be only my own lang cause translation was done on launchpad before the beta 2 :/
[10:05] <knome> how much before?
[10:06] <olbi> a month?
[10:07] <olbi> i'm trying to localize Xubuntu as much as possible but it is sometime very hard to do this :/
[10:08] <knome> polish is your language? i see 28 untranslated strings
[10:11] <olbi> wtf? there were translations and it's gone :/
[10:12] <olbi> what is going on with this launchpad :/
[10:13] <knome> did you do the translations before we did the call for translations? it's likely that you have translated old strings.
[10:13] <jhenke> knome I thought there are new images generated once a day? hence daily image?
[10:13] <knome> jhenke, not during RC
[10:13] <jhenke> :(
[10:13] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate
[10:14] <jhenke> "During the week leading up to the final release, the images produced are all considered release candidates" ?
[10:14] <jhenke> sounds like daily images to me, or is something tricking my mind right now?
[10:14] <knome> is
[10:14] <knome> " In an ideal world, the first one would end up being the final release..."
[10:15] <knome> the idea of a release candidate is "do not change it if it works"
[10:15] <jhenke> well I do not want to argue about it
[10:15] <jhenke> well ours did not work as expected yesterday...
[10:15] <knome> no problem really
[10:15] <knome> yes, and still wouldn't, so we haven't yet rebuild
[10:15] <knome> we can do that when we need to, though
[10:16] <jhenke> okay then I guess it makes no sense to test the new one (which according to the website was build just some minutes ago)
[10:16] <jhenke> 12-Apr-2014 10:05
[10:17] <knome> well it "always" makes sense...
[10:17] <knome> there might be other things landed that might have regressions
[10:17] <knome> just not realistic to expect unfixed things to be fixed in that ISO :)
[10:18] <jhenke> my hope was that the dependecy chane would be solved by the time the ISO was generated
[10:18] <jhenke> you know, optimism ;)
[10:18] <knome> i doubt so...
[10:20] <jhenke> well I'll test it any way then, the most useful thing I can do right now :(
[10:20] <brainwash> so, do you we already need to write a SRU report for merge requests? non-critical issues ofc
[10:21] <knome> anything that will be a SRU will need a SRU report at some point
[10:21] <brainwash> mmh, some point
[10:21] <brainwash> so we've already passed that point, right?
[10:21] <knome> well, before it's landing as a SRU :P
[10:21] <knome> that question both makes and doesn't make sense
[10:22] <jhenke> I think so, the release candidate mail sounded like everything is a SRU now, except release blocking bugs
[10:22] <knome> yep.
[10:22] <brainwash> we don't have any blockers :)
[10:22] <knome> so things that won't go into the release, are SRU material
[10:23] <knome> for those, you will need SRU reports
[10:23] <brainwash> ok
[10:30] <knome> upgrading to trusty
[10:30] <knome> mrh
[10:38] <starrats> good morning everyone
[10:51] <brainwash> bug 1306917
[10:51] <brainwash> can anyone confirm this?
[10:54] <brainwash> knome: can we move bug 1270894 to 14.04.1?
[10:59] <brainwash> patched abiword available from https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
[11:00] <knome> brainwash, can and should.
[11:00] <brainwash> do I need to create an extra bug report to request an update of abiword via debdiff?
[11:01] <brainwash> or can I simply attach it to one of the existing reports (3)?
[11:01] <knome> i... don't know the answer to that question :P
[11:01] <knome> i guess you'd need a sponsorshhip bug
[11:01] <brainwash> I think so too
[11:01] <knome> which could be one of the existing bugs, but would be cleaner if it wasn't, since it fixes multiple issues
[11:01] <brainwash> well, first it needs to be tested
[11:02] <brainwash> I don't want to attach a bad debdiff :)
[11:02] <brainwash> elfy: please test https://launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/+archive/abiword
[11:03] <brainwash> you can find the bug numbers in the PPA description
[11:03] <knome> i'm not sure if those bugs would be critical enough to warrant a final freeze exception...
[11:04] <knome> the crash on exporting PDF is semi-nasty
[11:04] <brainwash> sru then
[11:04] <brainwash> quick sru
[11:04] <knome> there is no quick SRU... it's .1 in 6 months
[11:04] <knome> we can push them to updates though
[11:04] <brainwash> yes, update
[11:05] <knome> yes, sure
[11:05] <brainwash> but it's that a sru?
[11:05] <knome> not necessarily
[11:05] <knome> a SRU means the change will be on the next ISO
[11:06] <knome> withtout a need to upgrade your system
[11:06] <brainwash> ah, that's fine
[11:06] <knome> and it will also be landing for *everybody*
[11:06] <brainwash> so it will stay broken on the live cd
[11:06] <knome> not just those who opted in for extra updates
[11:06] <knome> for 14.04, yes...
[11:06] <knome> (unless we want to argue it getting a final freeze exception)
[11:07] <brainwash> which triggers a respin, correct?
[11:08] <knome> it doesn't trigger one, but obviously we'd like one
[11:08] <knome> but we will need one for the bluetooth stuff.
[11:08] <brainwash> a respin for abiword alone is overkill
[11:08] <knome> sure.
[11:08] <knome> but that might be an indicator it's overkill to break the final freeze with it
[11:10] <knome> brainwash, for future convenience, can you drop in the bug titles to the PPA description along with their numbers
[11:11] <knome> brainwash, i'm thinking the PDF export bug might warrant the exception.
[11:11] <knome> and while we do that, we could land the other two
[11:12] <knome> but i'd poke around in -release and ask what people think
[11:13] <knome> also, i should be able to test the PPA soonish
[11:19] <knome> 14:15  knome: what's the general thought about fixing a low, but annoying bug along with a high/critical bug during the final freeze?
[11:20] <knome> 14:15  knome: (in the same package)
[11:20] <knome> 14:19  cjwatson: I'd probably be OK with it as long as the diff was clear and we could make a good estimate from it that the risk is low
[11:23] <knome> brainwash, bug 1292290 ?
[11:51] <brainwash> knome: well, it's a bug I can confirm
[11:51] <knome> but not triage? :|
[11:52] <brainwash> no, but maybe fix if I take a look at the source :D
[11:52] <knome> i could approve that as late fix...
[11:53] <knome> if it really is as the bug says, and is impacting many users (which i'm not sure of)
[11:56] <brainwash> there is also bug 1303404
[11:56] <brainwash> and maybe https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/xubuntu-default-settings/migrate-kb-shortcuts
[11:57] <knome> mhm..
[11:57] <brainwash> they have changed <control> to <primary> in 4.11
[11:58] <knome> the merge would make sense, but again, final freeze...
 should work fine, but once you hit the "reset keybinds" button, it will also add the <primary> version of the keybind
[11:59] <knome> hmh
[11:59] <knome> that's a low-priority issue then
[11:59] <brainwash> this needs some time to fix
[11:59] <knome> it's... a bit annoying, but not a huge issue imo
[11:59] <brainwash> all 3 issues I mean
[11:59] <knome> talking about the last one
[11:59] <brainwash> yes
[11:59] <knome> sicne it only happens when you are at that dialog, it's barely a problem :)
[12:00] <knome> and in a way, it doesn't make as much sense to land the fix for .1... :|
[12:03] <jhenke> ahh, yes now that you mention that explains some behaviour when changing keybindings
[12:03] <brainwash> we need to forward it upstream at least
[12:04] <knome> sure
[12:08] <brainwash> so there won't be any fix before release
[12:08] <knome> if there is a fix for the two bugs, i'm ok to approve those, but the migration stuff, nah
[12:09] <knome> brb, booting to trusty side of things!
[12:10] <bluesabre> hey guys
[12:11] <bluesabre> has anybody looked at why indicator-keyboard and indicator-datetime seem to be in the latest nightlies?
[12:12] <bluesabre> or do I have a project now?
[12:13] <jhenke> it was assumed they came via the dependecy chain, as gnome-bluetooth was pulled in and with it gnome-control-center and unity-control-center
[12:19] <knome> hmm... not able to login graphically
[12:20] <bluesabre> ah
[12:23] <bluesabre> fun
[12:23] <bluesabre> remove indicator-datetime indicator-keyboard
[12:23] <bluesabre> installs gnome-control-center
[12:23] <bluesabre> :\
[12:24] <bluesabre> so the dependencies need to be tweaked
[12:24] <bluesabre> anybody looking into this currently?
[12:24] <bluesabre> is this something cyphermox was looking at?
[12:24] <jhenke> bluesabre I think we need to look into that once gnome-bluetooth is gone
[12:24] <jhenke> I think so
[12:25] <bluesabre> ok, so we are removing gnome-bluetooth then?
[12:26] <jhenke> afaik the agreed solution is to demote it from recommend to suggest on network-manager-gnome
[12:27] <jhenke> that should stop pulling it into the default install
[12:47] <elfy> brainwash: confirm that fixes those 3 abiword bugs
[12:50] <elfy> apparently does so for bug 1054315 
[12:58] <brainwash> elfy: thanks
[12:58] <brainwash> the linked report is marked as invalid
[13:01] <elfy> no idea why - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen - just that it got marked invalid ;)
[13:01] <elfy> it might have been that guy wandering around making vague pronouncements on our bugs :p
[13:06] <knome> hmm, i'm having problems getting lightdm to run on upgrade from 13.10
[13:06] <bluesabre> that's unusual
[13:06] <knome> o'rly? :P
[13:06] <bluesabre> anything in the logs?
[13:07] <knome> it's probably related to xrandr not being able to open any display..
[13:07] <bluesabre> O.o
[13:07] <knome> can see plymouth when i don't use the nvidia driver
[13:07] <bluesabre> seems like you should have answered elfy's calls for testing ;)
[13:07] <knome> but it just loads infinitely
[13:07] <knome> hey, production machines!
[13:08] <bluesabre> :D
[13:09] <bluesabre> maybe install the nvidia proprietary drivers, and run nvidia-xconfig?
[13:09] <knome> i *just* did that
[13:09] <knome> but i'm pretty sure that won't fix it
[13:09] <knome> i've tried with a veeeery similar xorg file and the proprietary drivers installed
[13:09] <knome> jockey-text is a joke
[13:10] <knome> it never does anything
[13:10] <knome> i'm just it is just sleep(random)
[13:10] <elfy> pebkac
[13:11] <brainwash> elfy: bug 1306905
[13:11] <brainwash> "Since today's daily update,..."
[13:11] <knome> elfy, feel free to prove me wrong and point where the problem is...
[13:12] <elfy> between the keyboard and the chair - that's the bkac bit :p
[13:13] <knome> yes, and what is that problem?
[13:13] <elfy> :p
[13:14] <elfy> try esc and see if it's hanging at nvidia-prime 
[13:15] <knome> that says ok.. persistenced daemon says fail
[13:15] <elfy> not seen that in my travels
[13:15] <knome> "starting ligthdm display manager"  -> fail
[13:16] <knome> "starting send an event to indicate plymouth is up"  -> fail
[13:24] <elfy> brainwash: I have no idea what that bug report even means 
[13:25] <brainwash> the confirmation dialog (ok or cancel + 30sec timeout)
[13:25] <elfy> and that means just as much
[13:26] <elfy> what confirmation button in panel configuration says that?
[13:26] <brainwash> action button
[13:27] <elfy> ?
[13:27] <brainwash> top right corner (old panel layout)
[13:27] <brainwash> the thingy with your name
[13:27] <elfy> oh
[13:28] <elfy> action plugin
[13:28] <brainwash> O.O
[13:28] <brainwash> :D
[13:28] <brainwash> well, this particular user has reported some "bugs" which I cannot confirm at all
[13:28] <elfy> right 
[13:29] <elfy> I might understand why - hang on I'll comment
[13:30] <elfy> I thought your volman thing was up the kibosh this morning - following updates - EVERYTHING including reboot wanted a password - once I rebooted all was ok again
[13:31] <elfy> suspend from there works
[13:32] <elfy> fine - and now that I've gotten used to it in whiskermenuI see that I could have had buttons on the panel 
[13:32] <elfy> knome: I can't find anything re that lightdm issue of yours
[13:34] <bluesabre> knome: what happens if you delete your existing Xorg.conf?
[13:36]  * bluesabre works on getting rid of gnome-bluetooth
[13:39] <knome> bluesabre, nothing.
[13:40] <bluesabre> :\
[13:40] <knome> bluesabre, well, when i deleted that and the nvidia driver, i got to plymoith
[13:40] <knome> *plymouth
[13:40] <knome> which kept on loading infinitely
[13:40] <bluesabre> whats the graphics card?
[13:41] <knome> nvidia geforce gtx 560 ti
[13:43] <bluesabre> yup, no idea
[13:43] <knome> yup
[13:43] <bluesabre> since you did an upgrade, do you still have the old kernels installed?
[13:43] <knome> not, removed them
[13:43] <knome> but i could reinstall them
[13:44]  * knome facepalm
[13:44] <bluesabre> I'd try that, otherwise...
[13:44] <bluesabre> #xubuntu is the support channel
[13:44] <bluesabre> ;)
[13:44] <knome> /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf didn't specify user session or greeter
[13:44] <bluesabre> ah
[13:44] <bluesabre> that's lame
[13:44] <knome> i read that elfy had that problem before
[13:44] <elfy> that's gone
[13:45] <knome> elfy, really? how did it occur to me today then... :)
[13:45] <knome> that fixes it...
[13:46] <elfy> look in /usr/share/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/
[13:46] <elfy> 60-light ... blah I think is where greeter is specified now
[13:47] <knome> yeah.. but to be exact
[13:47] <knome> lightdm.conf had them set to null
[13:47] <knome> eg user_session=
[13:47] <knome> would the .d files still overwrite?
[13:48] <elfy> knome: here I have no /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf at all - try # them or renaming them
[13:48] <knome> well i just specified them
[13:48] <knome> and that fixes the issue as i said
[13:48] <knome> i'll go and enable nvidia now
[13:48] <knome> i can look at the lightdm conf after that
[13:48] <elfy> didn't see you say it was fixed
[13:48] <knome> 16:45  knome: that fixes it...
[13:49] <knome> i wouldn't have any clue to look there unless i found your forum thread
[13:49] <elfy> oh - I thought that was a sarky comment to my 'that's gone' lol
[13:49] <knome> so indirect thanks ;)
[13:49] <elfy> forum's are rubbish apparently :D
[13:49] <knome> no, i'm hardly snarky/joking when i'm debugging
[13:49] <elfy> :)
[13:50] <knome> forum usability is still rubbish ;)
[13:50] <elfy> not for me :)
[13:51] <knome> yeah, i can understand and respect different people liking different methods
[13:51] <elfy> I can too - and do use different methods
[13:51] <knome> yep
[13:51] <knome> i just can't deal with the slow pace of forums
[13:51] <knome> well, it's probably not slow paced all the time
[13:51] <knome> but it's somehow.. so scattered :|
[13:52] <elfy> I really need to try and get my head around what's gone on with lightdm
[13:52] <knome> maybe you should ask bluesabre 
[13:52] <elfy> I try hard to catch xubuntu stuff on my forum and make sure it is prefixed with xubuntu
[13:52] <knome> yeah, but even that isn't the problem :)
[13:52] <elfy> nope - it can be slow 
[13:53] <knome> by scattered i mean that even if the forum was perfectly organized (which it never is), and all posts were tagged, you would still have to dig for stuff consistently
[13:54] <knome> ok, confess, WHO SWITCHED MY MONITOR ORDER
[13:54] <knome> left is virtually right and right is virtually left
[13:55] <knome> one more reboot...
[13:56] <elfy> bert was in charge of switching monitors
[13:57] <knome> i've been speedy
[13:57] <knome> it never occurred to me that nvidia-settings would be in the... settings manager
[13:57] <elfy> knome: yep - I use a search engine for buntu generally - usually works 
[13:57]  * knome facepalms with a splat
[13:57] <elfy> knome: all sorts of things get left in there ... 
[13:58] <knome> i even made the right hand side monitor the primary one
[13:58] <knome> which has been bugging me since we moved here in mid-december
[13:58] <bluesabre> I don't know what happens with lightdm
[13:58] <bluesabre> we bug robert if there's an issue
[13:58] <bluesabre> s/we/ochosi
[13:58] <knome> my favorite CLI command
[13:59] <knome> sudo apt-get purge apport
[13:59] <bluesabre> :)
[14:00] <elfy> back later 
[14:01] <elfy> bluesabre: it's not so much issue - just wth has been moved about :)
[14:01] <bluesabre> also, I don't get that either ;)
[14:01] <bluesabre> knome: is cyphermox leading the charge on bluetooth?
[14:05] <elfy> bluesabre: I'm glad it's not just me then :p
[14:08] <knome> bluesabre, yes, but please make sure removing it helps with removing stuff you want out
[14:09] <knome> elfy, what was the bug for the lightdm issue?
[14:12] <elfy> knome: my one?
[14:12] <knome> i found it, bug 1267442
[14:12] <elfy> yea that's it - back later
[14:13] <bluesabre> I love the fact that nvidia-prime actually works in trusty
[14:14] <knome> bluesabre, i like the prime messages:
[14:14] <knome> ** Message: PRIME: No offloading required. Abort
[14:14] <knome> ** Message: PRIME: is it supported? no
[14:14] <bluesabre> ah
[14:15] <bluesabre> well, it works for my new laptop with the haswell/nvidia combo
[14:15] <bluesabre> :)
[14:15] <knome> mh
[14:18] <bluesabre> ok, tested a package with gnome-bluetooth moved to suggests, it seems to work
[14:19] <bluesabre> reinstalling the existing package adds these things:
[14:19] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305191
[14:20] <bluesabre> installing the new package:
[14:21] <knome> too lazy to copypaste?
[14:21] <bluesabre> vm doesnt have extensions installed
[14:21] <bluesabre> http://imagebin.org/305192
[14:22] <knome> copypaste to a file in vm, cat file | pastebinit
[14:22] <brainwash> mmh, I guess that we know that already
[14:23] <bluesabre> anyway, if cyphermox is handling it, cool, otherwise, let me know if I need to bug the sponsors
[14:23] <brainwash> he said so
[14:23] <brainwash> but it takes soooo long :)
[14:24] <brainwash> where can we even track the status?
[14:24] <knome> bluesabre, he is, but stay on your toes just in case
[14:24] <knome> brainwash, please stop whining
[14:24] <bluesabre> lol
[14:24] <bluesabre> I'll push a merge request tomorrow morning if I don't hear anything
[14:25] <knome> bluesabre, it involves studio and mythbuntu seed, so careful! :)
[14:25] <bluesabre> ah
[14:28] <brainwash> but ibus is not involved?
[14:28] <bluesabre> one sec
[14:29] <brainwash> or did you forget to remove it manually
[14:29] <bluesabre> forgot to remove it
[14:29] <bluesabre> 1. new package does not pull ibus
[14:30] <bluesabre> 2. old (current) package does
[14:30] <bluesabre> so yes, fixes ibus as well
[14:30] <brainwash> ok
[14:36] <bluesabre> so, installation diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/7239825/
[14:37] <bluesabre> which is silly
[14:37] <bluesabre> :D
[14:46] <knome> bluesabre, pretty much...
[14:55] <bluesabre> besides that issue, and abiword's zaniness, the release looks awesome
[14:56] <bluesabre> I am so ready to move on to libreoffice
[14:56] <bluesabre> going to really push for that next release
[14:56] <knome> hmm...
[14:56] <bluesabre> since abiword and gnumeric are some of the worst-designed gtk apps there are
[14:56] <knome> that would make the ISO over a gig though
[14:56] <knome> what about just dropping them altogether?
[14:57] <bluesabre> I wouldn't mind that personally
[14:57] <knome> well the next big target is 16.04
[14:58] <bluesabre> right
[14:58] <knome> do (most) people really do their office stuff locally and not in the cloud in 2016?
[14:58] <knome> well i don't know, probably nobody knows
[14:58] <bluesabre> plenty of opinions on that ofc
[14:58] <knome> but i would say dropping abiword and gnumeric will make *more* sense *after* 14.04
[14:58] <bluesabre> right-o
[14:58] <knome> regardless if it's (still) the optimal choice or not
[14:58] <knome> but i don't know
[14:59] <knome> i'm not the one who decides...
[14:59] <knome> 5 days and i'm free!
[14:59] <bluesabre> :'(
[14:59] <knome> we need to keep rolling forward
[15:00] <bluesabre> let's have some fun and put Unit193 in charge through the next LTS
[15:04] <brainwash> bug 1306952
[15:06] <bluesabre> I'll take that for a spin
[15:09] <knome> bluesabre, please also ask for an ACK from the release team
[15:09] <bluesabre> of course
[15:09] <knome> i've asked about that yesterday and cjwatson said he'd probably ACK it if the diff was clean
[15:09] <bluesabre> brainwash: works well
[15:10] <bluesabre> knome: abiword or bluetooth?
[15:10] <knome> abiword
[15:10] <knome> i've no reason to think the bluetooth issue wouldn't be approved either
[15:11] <knome> only one of the abiword bugs were *actually* critical enough to be worth acking a final freeze exception
[15:11] <knome> the thing i asked from -release was if we could slip in a few low-prio bugs as well
[15:12] <brainwash> what about https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/thunar-volman/fix-automount ?
[15:12] <brainwash> or https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/ubuntu/trusty/xfwm4/fix-untiling
[15:12] <brainwash> is it worth to release an update after release?
[15:13] <knome> if volman actually fixes stuff (as it seems to), we could try to push it in
[15:13] <knome> and fast... to be done with one respin.
[15:13] <brainwash> indeed
[15:14] <knome> untiling? i'm not so sure if it's final freeze exception material
[15:14] <brainwash> the xfwm4 one hae very low priority
[15:14] <knome> and it's another package
[15:14] <brainwash> has
[15:14] <knome> so i'd consider that something for .1
[15:14] <knome> or just regular updates
[15:14] <bluesabre> ^
[15:15] <knome> linked the branch to the .1 blueprint
[15:15] <brainwash> ok, I just imaging people being very annoyed about this, tiling seems to quite popular and people surely want the original window size back after untiling
[15:15] <bluesabre> yeah, its an annoyance, but not a showstopper
[15:16] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseCandidate says it clearly
[15:16] <brainwash> but maybe that's not the case, there isn't even a lp report addressing this :D
[15:16] <knome> "... changes ... will only be allowed for very high-priority bugs that might justify delaying the release."
[15:16] <knome> fixing untiling?
[15:16] <knome> naaaah
[15:17] <brainwash> as update after release
[15:17] <brainwash> but before .1
[15:17] <bluesabre> I love how to-the-point that is
[15:17] <bluesabre> brainwash: yes
[15:17] <bluesabre> its a bugfix
[15:17] <knome> and seriously, adding an icon to the abiword about dialog? hahah.
[15:17] <knome> DELAY THE RELEASE, WE ARE MISSING AN ICON!
[15:17] <brainwash> :P
[15:17] <knome> but yeah, if it can slip in with other high/critical stuff..
[15:17] <brainwash> why not include it
[15:18] <bluesabre> :)
[15:18] <bluesabre> it could be critical
[15:18] <bluesabre> have you seen some linux reviews?
[15:18] <bluesabre> we have more wallpapers now
[15:18] <knome> brainwash, yes, let's include it.
[15:18] <bluesabre> our userbase is going to return!
[15:18] <knome> bluesabre, surely... :)
[15:18] <brainwash> more wallpapers, but no bottom panel... so
[15:19] <bluesabre> actually, now we don't have a screensaver
[15:19] <bluesabre> people are going to FREAK
[15:19] <brainwash> oh snap
[15:19] <knome> yes, the default desktop doesn't look like the desktop of the future
[15:19] <knome> ...that's how windows XP looked, btw
[15:20] <knome> yes, some of the reactions to dropping xscreensaver have been... interesting
[15:22] <bluesabre> ok, the patches look sane
[15:22] <bluesabre> going to make a branch and then bug the release folks
[15:23] <brainwash> bluesabre: can we include https://code.launchpad.net/~thad-fisch/lightdm-gtk-greeter/zoomed for .1? this implements the "zoomed" resize style properly, so the smooth greeter -> desktop transition works every time without any background changes
[15:23] <bluesabre> link it
[15:24] <brainwash> currently it scales the background correctly, but does not move it to the center of the screen
[15:24] <bluesabre> I've never had any issues with it myself
[15:24] <knome> brainwash, sounds like update stuff to me
[15:24] <knome> but we should probably sit down with it
[15:24] <knome> and read policies and ask about conventions
[15:24] <brainwash> it's an improvement
[15:24] <knome> and then see what we want to push as SRU's
[15:24] <brainwash> not a bug fix
[15:24] <bluesabre> its a bugfix for the greeter
[15:24] <brainwash> alright
[15:25] <brainwash> how is this a bug fix?
[15:25] <bluesabre> zoomed isn't right if it doesn't center
[15:25] <brainwash> but no one noticed
[15:25] <brainwash> so it worked like expected
[15:25] <knome> "no one noticed, can't be a bug"
[15:25] <bluesabre> well, its always worked right for me
[15:25] <knome> no, that's incorrect
[15:25] <knome> if nobody noticed a bug that got fixed, it was still a bug
[15:25] <bluesabre> but if there is an instance where it doesn't work
[15:25] <bluesabre> we should fix it
[15:26] <brainwash> if you chose a wallpaper with correct aspect ratio then you won't notice
[15:26] <bluesabre> create a bug for lightdm-gtk-greeter
[15:26] <bluesabre> and link your branch
[15:26] <bluesabre> :)
[15:26] <brainwash> ok :D
[15:26] <bluesabre> there's another bug I need to fix for the greeter this weekend
[15:26] <intekulan> audio indicator is back, I love you people :D
[15:26] <bluesabre> so I will probably roll that in with it
[15:26] <knome> Stable release updates will, in general, only be issued in order to fix high-impact bugs.
[15:26] <knome> from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When
[15:27] <bluesabre> Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel). 
[15:27] <brainwash> bluesabre: well, you should test my branch first, pick some background picture with strange aspect ratio
[15:28] <bluesabre> brainwash: I'll take a vertical selfie and set it
[15:28] <bluesabre> :D
[15:28] <bluesabre> I don't merge without testing ;)
[15:28] <knome> +1
[15:28] <bluesabre> and I almost always tweak other people's fixes
[15:28] <knome> though i'm sure your selfie will break it, and your monitor
[15:28] <bluesabre> I'm finicky
[15:28] <knome> (and the camera)
[15:28] <bluesabre> knome: most likely
[15:29] <bluesabre> better take a picture of the cat instead
[15:29] <bluesabre> look at the adorable kitty http://www.raydavisphotography.com/2014/04/10/the-simplest-answer-is-to-act/
[15:32] <bluesabre> bah
[15:32] <bluesabre> abiword doesn't have an ubuntu branch
[15:35] <bluesabre> brainwash: have you poked #ubuntu-release yet?
[15:40] <bluesabre> added my poke
[16:06]  * knome goes testing menulibre
[16:08] <knome> bluesabre, the advanced tab when editing a menu item has weird font antialiasing
[16:11] <brainwash> bluesabre: why does the light-locker-settings window always appear in the bottom right corner when I open it?
[16:12] <brainwash> what prevents it from being centered?
[16:14] <brainwash> it seems to be placed relative to the settings manager window
[16:23] <knome> bluesabre, how do i make something appear under settings manager->other instead of sm->system (or any other place)
[16:23] <knome> hmm, i crashed menulibre...
[16:26] <knome> hmm, and now it keeps breaking my menu
[16:26] <knome> i think i touched the tralala
[16:26] <knome> and especially the dingdingdong
[16:26] <knome> of menulibre
[17:27] <knome> bluesabre, poke -release again
[18:04] <bluesabre> brainwash: there is a property that is not set
[18:04] <bluesabre> knome: dang you
[18:05] <bluesabre> settings manager->other would be
[18:05] <bluesabre> Settings -> Settings
[18:05] <bluesabre> just the top one
[18:17] <knome> hmm.
[18:23] <Unit193> knome: Also, let me help you with your favorite line: sudo apt-get purge apport whoopsie && sudo apt-get autoremove --purge   :P
[18:24] <knome> :P
[18:28] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1306999
[18:34] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1307000
[18:45] <knome> bluesabre, bug 1307002
[18:45] <knome> bluesabre, have fun!
[18:46] <knome>  InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.10 "Oneiric Ocelot" - Release amd64 (20111012)
[18:46] <knome> oh la la
[19:00] <jhenke> knome sounds like good engineering that it worked up to 14.04 :D
[19:00] <knome> it's been breaking with every upgrade
[19:00] <knome> more or less in nasty ways..
[19:01] <jhenke> I rather meant the whole system
[19:02] <Unit193> InstallationMedia: Xubuntu 11.04 "Natty Narwhal" - Beta i386 (20110413.2)
[19:08] <jhenke> you win xD
[19:28] <kajair> hello, we should make a strong team for developing xubuntu. the number of people in meetings of developing it are almost 10
[19:28] <knome> yes... where have you been all these months? :)
[19:29] <knome> we can't force people to take part in meetings.
[19:29] <kajair> we dont force, we are showing this
[19:29] <kajair> i have been in that stupid xp
[19:29] <knome> who "we" ?
[19:30] <kajair> some peoples alike me
[19:30] <kajair> sorry for my poor english 
[19:30] <knome> i don't understand your point... we need to get more people to attend the meetings?
[19:30] <knome> why?
[19:30] <Unit193> Coffee and donuts.
[19:30] <knome> wouldn't it be better to get more people hanging around that actually contribute to xubuntu?
[19:31] <kajair> yes
[19:31] <kajair> the point is so simple. developing free open source os
[19:31] <knome> right...
[19:31] <knome> so what kind of ideas do you have to motivate people to join us?
[19:32] <kajair> spread and ad. right?
[19:32] <knome> i'm asking you.
[19:32] <kajair> i dont/wont force anyone to use it
[19:32] <kajair> ok
[19:33] <kajair> i told. spreading newses and benefits and adverts
[19:33] <knome> what kind of news? where?
[19:33] <knome> what benefits? none of the developers are making any money out of xubuntu, how can we give users more "benefits" than the free OS?
[19:34] <knome> we have one flyer, "XP to xubuntu", ready, and another is work in progress
[19:34] <kajair> i sawed that
[19:34] <knome> the flyer is available at http://xubuntu.org/marketingresources/, you can print and spread it.
[19:34] <knome> that would be http://xubuntu.org/products/ for the actual download links
[19:34] <kajair> the main goals is to spread xubuntu and develop
[19:34] <kajair> nothing else
[19:35] <knome> you said we need news and benefits. can you elaborate what that would practically mean?
[19:37] <kajair> so the new futures need to be thought
[19:37] <kajair> i cant tell you quickly
[19:37] <knome> you can take all the time you need, we will be here and listening
[19:38] <kajair> ill promise any ideas that i and my friends thought about xubuntu will tell you
[19:38] <kajair> *me
[19:38] <knome> we will have brainstorming time once we have actually first kicked the LTS out of the door...
[19:39] <kajair> so when will be meeting? 15 april?
[19:39] <knome> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings always has the next meeting time
[19:39] <kajair> ok thanks
[19:39] <knome> we won't be discussing brainstorming for the next release in that meeting though
[19:40] <kajair> ok
[19:42] <kajair> excuse me what is your profession mr knome? 
[19:42] <knome> i'm an entrepreneur. i also happen to be the xubuntu project lead
[19:43] <kajair> good
[19:43] <kajair> ok. later
[19:45] <knome> lderan, you around?
[19:55] <brainwash> does setting a picture as wallpaper work via thunar's context menu?
[19:56] <brainwash> we've included a patch so it should work with xfdesktop 4.11, but...
[19:58] <jhenke> good night folks
[19:58] <brainwash> good night jhenke 
[19:59] <brainwash> anyone here willing to test it?
[19:59] <knome> brainwash, worksforme in trusty
[20:00] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[20:02] <brainwash> it works for my 2nd user account
[20:02] <brainwash> default resize style is "scaled" =S
[20:03] <knome> hmm, for me i think it was what it was
[20:03] <knome> but that's minor anyway
[20:03] <knome> people can go and poke at it
[20:08] <brainwash> right, I prefer consistency
[20:09] <brainwash> "zoomed" everywhere :)
[20:10] <brainwash> sadly no one noticed that and reports it in time
[20:12] <brainwash> consistency helps in this case, because it does not break the smooth greeter -> desktop transition
[20:14] <brainwash> oh, little typo in my abiword changelog entry :)
[20:14] <brainwash> hopefully no one notices it :P
[20:15] <knome> Logan_, around?
[20:15] <knome> bluesabre, ACK from release team
[20:16] <Logan_> knome: somewhat
[20:16] <knome> Logan_, bug 1306952 needs uploading
[20:16] <knome> Logan_, we have an ACK from the release team to land it
[20:17] <knome> Logan_, are you able to get to it today?
[20:22] <Logan_> has it been tested?
[20:24] <knome> brainwash?
[20:24] <knome> brainwash, did you get tests from others in?
[20:39] <brainwash> knome: elfy did, bluesabre too I think
[20:39] <brainwash> and me
[20:42] <brainwash> Logan_: there is a small typo in the debian changelog, should be "..saving-as-pdf.patch" instead of "..saving-to-pdf.patch"
[20:44] <brainwash> but I guess that no one will care anyway
[20:52] <Logan_> brainwash: okay, I'll upload
[20:52] <brainwash> thanks :)
[21:07] <bluesabre0> yay, working in a library!
[21:11] <brainwash> psst
[21:14] <bluesabre0> what's up?
[21:45] <bluesabre0> drat, library closes early tonight
[22:18] <starrats> How does xfce4-mixer work if there is none in settings editor and what xfce4 is Trusty using?
[22:18] <knome> why would it need to be xfce4? try pavucontrol.
[22:19] <knome> oh, right, you're asking about the xfce4 version...
[22:19] <knome> well, it's mostly 4.10 with some cherry-picked 4.11 components
[22:19] <starrats> friend of mine has an xfce box
[22:19] <starrats> yes
[22:20] <starrats> and he has an xfce case not box
[22:20] <starrats> I believe it was 4.8
[22:24] <starrats> my friend is running xubuntu and he is looking the 'step size setting' that goes with the xfced4-mixer?
[22:24] <starrats> xfce4-mixer
[22:30] <lderan> knome, i am here now sorry was out
[22:31] <knome> lderan, that's ok
[22:31] <knome> lderan, how's the #done fixes coming along?
[22:32] <lderan> i submitted the merge request for it, will ask the alan if he has looked at it yet
[22:33] <starrats> does anyone know what happened to the 'volume step size setting' on xfce4-mixer?  where did it go or what replaced it?
[22:33] <knome> lderan, oh, okay, so it's that far :)
[22:33] <lderan> :)
[22:48] <olbi> hi guys, now when MS open source allmost all .NET Platform, we add Smuxi ass default irc client in next release? :D
[22:57] <Unit193> Uh, no.  That'd pull in the mono stack.  You can install smuxi in saucy or trusty now, what difference would any of that make anyway?
[23:04] <brainwash> exactly, installing all the mono libraries just to run one app.. no way