[02:49] <bluesabre> hey Logan_, knome
[02:49] <bluesabre> we got the ACK to upload https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1306952
[02:51] <bluesabre> ah
[02:51] <bluesabre> there has already been discussion about this :)
[02:51] <bluesabre> yay for online logs
[02:54] <bluesabre> cyphermox, any news for bluetooth?
[02:59] <bluesabre> knome: who should I coordinate with for ^ issue?
[06:24] <jhenke> good morning, would also be curious about the state of the bluetooth issue
[08:35] <elfy> wb brainwash 
[08:35] <brainwash> hi elfy 
[08:36] <elfy> volman is doing well % wise now :)
[08:37] <brainwash> so we should definitely push it after release
[08:37] <elfy> looks that way to me
[08:38] <zequence> cyphermox: knome: Have you done any change to your bluetooth thing?
[08:38] <brainwash> and it's a simple patch which only adds a small delay
[08:38] <brainwash> so breakage is very unlikely
[08:40] <elfy> brainwash: is that all it does?
[08:41] <brainwash> elfy: yes
[08:41] <brainwash> no magic involved
[08:41] <elfy> lol - that's completely mad :)
[08:43] <elfy> I guess we should move the bug to .1 then
[08:45] <elfy> in fact are any of the bugs left on the bugfix blueprint going to see a fix released before thursday
[08:46] <brainwash> maybe, but the problem is to get them in before final release
[08:47] <elfy> yea - I guess as long as ibus and the dupe indicator is in 
[08:48] <elfy> the hotkey/window manager keybindings I can't see happening
[08:48] <brainwash> the thunar crash problem is .1
[08:48] <elfy> the sigsev one?
[08:48] <brainwash> keybinds is low prio
[08:48] <brainwash> yes
[08:49] <brainwash> once apport is disabled for everyone, we won't get reports about this issue anymore
[08:49] <brainwash> other than "thunar crashed" :)
[08:49] <elfy> the xfce4 power manager issue - we trying to get that in still?
[08:49]  * elfy has been missing a bit the last day or so
[08:50] <brainwash> maybe
[08:50] <brainwash> this one is high priority
[08:51] <elfy> I'd say so
[08:52] <elfy> so the power and the two abiword ones are left on the bugfix list now
[08:52] <elfy> despite my original misgivings that blueprint was useful :)
[08:52] <brainwash> of course it was
[08:53] <elfy> t'll be longer next time ... 
[08:53] <elfy> mmm 
[08:53] <elfy> why is ibus bug on the .1 list?
[08:53] <brainwash> then we should start fixing stuff earlier :P
[08:53] <brainwash> to get it back
[08:54] <brainwash> well, make it compatible with Xfce
[08:54] <elfy> we didn't start that blueprint until very late in the cycle
[08:54] <elfy> brainwash: ohe yea - that makes sense :)
[08:55] <brainwash> you could request the ibus dev to add the simple "gb" layout
[08:56] <elfy> yea - that works for me - but what others ... 
[08:56] <elfy> now I've found it - it'll annoy me forever and a day ;)
[08:56] <brainwash> we need him to add some of the missing layouts or integrate ibus into xfce4-settings
[08:57] <brainwash> so -settings will disable ibus temporary if it does not know a particular kb layout
[08:58] <brainwash> but layout switching via keybind (super - space) will continue to work
[09:00] <elfy> damn shame that debian don't use it in their default 
[09:00] <elfy> or this would be fixed ;)
[09:01] <brainwash> bug 1307045 a dupe?
[09:02] <brainwash> most likely I guess
[09:02] <elfy> dupe to the power bug I'd guess
[09:04] <elfy> he's not been about much this cycle - I doubt if he's noticed the scurrying about in here re that :)
[09:05] <brainwash> oh, you are right
[09:08] <elfy> marked it
[09:09] <brainwash> you could have asked before if it only happens on lid close P
[09:10] <elfy> I could - he'll say something I guess :)
[09:10] <elfy> and anyway if it isn't - we don't support hibernate afaik :)
[09:11] <brainwash> :D
[09:11] <kajair> xubuntu devel list:
[09:11] <kajair> 1. make file search better
[09:11] <kajair> 2. compatibility with most   laptops
[09:11] <kajair> 3. auto restore screen resolution after wine game
[09:12] <elfy> kajair: http://xubuntu.org/contribute/
[09:12] <kajair> ill make long list till that
[09:13] <kajair> *that meeting
[09:13] <brainwash> 2. is a general ubuntu task
[09:13] <brainwash> 3. wine bug
[09:14] <brainwash> 1. did you test the new catfish (search app)?
[09:15] <kajair> catfish 0.8.2 i have. catfish should be embedded to files
[09:15] <brainwash> you can open catfish via context menu from the thunar
[09:15] <brainwash> from thunar
[09:16] <brainwash> making it part of thunar isn't easy, catfish is a python app
[09:18] <kajair> so we should make it easy
[09:18] <kajair> an embedded app in file explorer
[09:18] <kajair> alike xp
[09:19] <kajair> but different
[09:19] <elfy> kajair: so are you going to work on this then?
[09:19] <kajair> elfy: im just giving ideas.
[09:21] <elfy> well - what's needed is an actual specification - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument#Xubuntu_Development
[09:22] <kajair> ok. im starting from 0
[09:22] <brainwash> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2293
[09:23] <brainwash> from 2006-09-10
[09:46] <knome> zequence, not yet
[09:48] <knome> brainwash, wait, why volman bug not for the release?
[09:50] <brainwash> knome: no sponsor?
[09:50] <knome> we have Logan_ around, and we can poke other people
[09:50] <brainwash> would be great
[09:51] <brainwash> but it's low priority
[09:52] <knome> is it?
[09:52] <knome> i would argue it's at least medium, but i don't know
[09:52] <brainwash> if it does not auto mount, the user can simply manually do it
[09:52] <knome> yeah...
[09:52] <knome> i guess yep
[09:52] <elfy> hang on
[09:52] <knome> but then if it's low, it's not .1 stuff either
[09:52] <brainwash> it annoys people
[09:53] <elfy> this fix doesn't deal with that issue for me - what it deals with is my clip NOT APPEARING at all 
[09:53] <elfy> I'd not be able to manually mount it - it's not there to manually mount
[09:53] <brainwash> in thunar's sidebar?
[09:53] <knome> elfy, that's what i was thinking..
[09:53] <elfy> brainwash: it doesn't appear anywhere at all 
[09:54] <brainwash> oh, well
[09:54] <elfy> I'd not call it low - I'd call it use another OS to work on my clip ;)
[09:54] <knome> :P
[09:54] <elfy> but that's how I'm affected by this issue :)
[09:55] <elfy> which I guess is a different bug ... 
[09:55] <knome> as long as it fixes that..
[09:56] <elfy> yea
[09:56] <brainwash> elfy: you should add a comment to the report then
[09:56] <brainwash> and mention that it works for you
[09:57] <elfy> seems a bit pointless if we're going to try and land it 
[09:58] <brainwash> but it helps if a reviewer checks the report
[09:58] <elfy> I did comment :)
[09:59] <brainwash> thanks :)
[10:00] <elfy> in the meantime I can't make head nor tail of getting autologin to work :(
[10:01] <brainwash> they moved the lightdm conf file
[10:02] <brainwash> maybe that's the reason
[10:02] <elfy> I know that - but adding the autologin lines doesn't work - anywhere that I can see
[10:03] <brainwash> there is bug 1250875
[10:03] <brainwash> 2013-11-13
[10:04] <brainwash> but it never works for you
[10:05] <elfy> I've not get it set to do so - no way to set that :)
[10:05] <elfy> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/1.9.4-0ubuntu1
[10:06] <elfy> remove lightdm-set-defaults
[10:07] <elfy> and I've tried adding the line to the files I can see that it might be - but none appear to work
[10:09] <brainwash> :/
[10:09] <brainwash> no clue, sorry
[10:10] <elfy> I've given up for the time being - I'll just report it I think
[10:14] <elfy> bit late in the day to report it really :(
[10:15] <knome> late in the day or late in the cycle? :P
[10:15] <elfy> cycle :p
[10:16]  * elfy gets all cynical and bets it's another 'works for ubuntu' issue
[10:19] <knome> heh, possible
[10:19] <knome> but hey...
[10:19] <knome> now that we have got the drive on
[10:19] <knome> and the next release is non-LTS
[10:19] <elfy> yea
[10:19] <knome> we can fix a load of bugs
[10:19] <elfy> and the wallpaper which makes me think my screen is cracked :D
[10:20]  * elfy thinks that the mouse icon for whiskermenu should be the angular one :)
[10:20] <knome> huhu
[10:21] <knome> don't you like the new wallpaper ;(
[10:21] <elfy> yea - was joking :)
[10:21] <knome> me too
[10:21] <elfy> oh good 
[10:21] <knome> i don't mind you don't like it...
[10:21] <elfy> cos if you didn't like it then I'm off :p
[10:21] <knome> lol
[10:21] <elfy> oh I know that :)
[10:22] <elfy> I'll move that usb bug back to the current bugfix list then 
[10:22] <knome> mh
[10:22] <elfy> just in case I get karma for it 
[10:23] <knome> hahah
[10:23] <knome> heyy... i have a super plan
[10:23] <knome> let's create two blueprints
[10:23] <knome> you move bugs from A to B
[10:23] <knome> and me from B to A
[10:23] <elfy> awesome - do we get karma for that?
[10:23] <knome> loads of karma for both
[10:24] <knome> rinse and repeat
[10:24] <elfy> woohoo :D
[10:24] <knome> i guess...
[10:24] <elfy> don't tell jackson :p
[10:25] <knome> haha
[10:48] <bluesabre> gaming the system
[10:49] <bluesabre> I'm ashamed
[10:50] <elfy> who are you gaming the system for?
[10:50] <bluesabre> knome: the bluetooth/network-manager-gnome stuff affects mythbuntu and ubuntustudio, right?
[10:50] <bluesabre> hey elfy
[10:50] <elfy> hi :)
[10:50] <knome> bluesabre, yep.
[10:50] <knome> bluesabre, mythbuntu said "we never wanted bluetooth in our ISOs to begin with"
[10:51] <knome> bluesabre, studio said "we'll do what you do"
[10:51] <bluesabre> ah
[10:51] <bluesabre> so that sounds like an ACK to me
[10:51] <knome> yes
[10:51] <bluesabre> heard anything from cyphermox, or should I just get to it?
[10:52] <knome> he's taken care of it before, and could upload it, so...
[10:52] <knome> what's your schdule next week? weekend is.. weekend, and people might be away
[10:52] <knome> he might just do it on monday when he gets back
[10:52] <amigamagic> hi there
[10:52] <knome> he was waiting from the ack from myth before
[10:52] <bluesabre> as usual, I'm not around most of the day, most days
[10:52] <elfy> amigamagic: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs
[10:53]  * bluesabre just wants to make sure the iso is fixed
[10:53]  * elfy does too
[10:54] <elfy> but the time for whining is done now so all I can do is watch others :)
[10:54]  * jhenke thumbs up, also waiting for a fixed iso :)
[10:54] <knome> bluesabre, don't know how much of it you can do...
[10:54] <knome> bluesabre, will need an uploader anyway
[10:55] <bluesabre> I can poke uploaders and hope for some outcome
[10:55] <knome> bluesabre, and cyphermox has done it before (the exact same thing)
[10:55] <bluesabre> not much else
[10:55] <bluesabre> k
[10:55] <bluesabre> I'll leave it to him
[10:55] <knome> yeah, i'm optimistic he'll get to it on monday :)
[11:02] <amigamagic> the released bugfixes, are already in the repositories of the 14.04 development branch?
[11:03] <amigamagic> or they should be applied manually to test them?
[11:07] <amigamagic> I checked all the bugs on  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/xubuntu-t-bugs  but I didn't find the problem of the missing icons in the indicator plugin... Should I file a bug report?
[11:08] <elfy> amigamagic: I'm fairly sure that is tied in with bug 1302571
[11:09] <amigamagic> elfy I read that, but it doesn't talk of those missing icons... But maybe it's related, I don't know
[11:09] <elfy> neither do I completely
[11:09] <elfy> but icons I'm not sure of - that is possibly something else
[11:12] <amigamagic> to me Sound and Power Management indicators are there, so maybe it was already fixed and uploaded to the current development repositories so that all the testers could update and test?
[11:13] <amigamagic> but the keyboard and power management icons missing, to me it appears as a different problem...
[11:13] <starrats> I can not find xfce4-mixer in the settings editor of xfce4
[11:13] <amigamagic> where it is that xfce4-indicator-plugin takes those icons? Is there some directory somewhere in which those icons are placed?
[11:15] <amigamagic> in the previous xubuntu there was an indicator for disk usage too, but now, in 14.04 I cannot find it
[11:22] <brainwash> amigamagic: do you have a laptop?
[11:22] <brainwash> if no, then the power indicator won't show up
[11:22] <elfy> starrats: we don't use that - we use pavucontrol - which is in the sound indicator
[11:23] <brainwash> keyboard indicator needs to be configured via gnome/unity and is not integrated by xubuntu
[11:23] <starrats> ah okay elfy thanks
[11:23] <amigamagic> brainwash, for the power indicator, you are right, it should be displayed only when you are on a laptop. Actually I'm trying xubuntu 14.04 on a virtual machine that in turns is on a laptop.
[11:24] <amigamagic> but its icon is missing
[11:24] <amigamagic> you can see that in the property panel of the xfce4-indicator-plugin
[11:24] <brainwash> because a vm is not a mobile device
[11:24] <amigamagic> brainwash, as I said, that is not the problem
[11:24] <amigamagic> there are two missing icons in the xfce4-indicator-plugin: keyboard and power managment
[11:25] <amigamagic> you can see that if you open the properties of the plugin
[11:26] <brainwash> so you are talking about missing icons in the properties window?
[11:26] <amigamagic> and in place of keyboard indicator, on your panel you will have a blank square
[11:26] <amigamagic> in both
[11:26] <amigamagic> if its missing in the properties window its missing in the panel too
[11:26] <amigamagic> try yourself and see it
[11:26] <brainwash> then configure the keyboard indicator
[11:27] <brainwash> we won't ship this indicator in the final release
[11:27] <amigamagic> yes, I think that if something is broken, is better that it's not there until it's fixed
[11:27] <amigamagic> :)
[11:27] <brainwash> it is not broken
[11:27] <amigamagic> I mean, its icon, of course...
[11:28] <amigamagic> the indicator functionality should work... But it's very ugly to see a void space inside the panel
[11:28] <brainwash> install unity-control-center and configure it
[11:29] <knome> we're really really late in the cycle; there is no time to pull things out and put them back
[11:29] <amigamagic> then I think you should at least "hide" that icon for the final release
[11:29] <brainwash> yes, we never intended to include the keyboard indicator
[11:29] <brainwash> it will be hidden
[11:30] <amigamagic> and there are two date/time indicators too
[11:30] <brainwash> well, not installed at all
[11:30] <amigamagic> one of them should be hidden too
[11:30] <brainwash> will be resolved, don't worry
[11:31] <amigamagic> you know, I want to help in reporting those little details because I like very much xubuntu distro
[11:31] <elfy> amigamagic: I hope you're going to be around for week 1 of Unreal Unicorn and onwards rather than week 26 :)
[11:32] <elfy> then ^^ :)
[11:32] <amigamagic> sorry for my ignorance, but what is Unreal Unicorn?
[11:32] <elfy> because in general week last is too late for anyone to do anything 
[11:32] <knome> amigamagic, helps to look at already reported bugs and blueprints that indicate they are been working on
[11:32] <elfy> knome: they have been - linked it earlier 
[11:32]  * elfy named 14.10 that :p
[11:33] <knome> amigamagic, also helps if you can use time to actually read logs for this channel and the mailing list; many people asking the same questions just makes us use lot of time in replying, not fixing things
[11:33] <knome> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ has the logs for this channel
[11:35] <amigamagic> knome, I think a chat is not a forum, where you search for eons of previous logs on the web to see if someone talked of your same topic
[11:35] <amigamagic> but I understand your stress
[11:41] <bluesabre> basically we are pulling in a few extra packages because of dependencies... indicator-keyboard, indicator-datetime
[11:41] <bluesabre> ideally, final release will not have those
[11:42] <amigamagic> yes, it appears it's the case... Many of them are duplicate of plugin that xfce already had
[11:42] <amigamagic> but do you know why isn't there anymore the disk usage plugin?
[11:43] <amigamagic> it was useful...
[11:44] <amigamagic> bluetooth plugin is duplicated too :)
[11:46] <bluesabre> yeah, indicator-bluetooth as well :)
[11:46] <bluesabre> not sure about the disk usage plugin
[11:46] <bluesabre> we should have a fix for all of this in on Monday, so the builds on Tuesday should be in good shape
[11:47] <bluesabre> I've tested the fix and none of this extra stuff will be installed as a result
[11:48] <amigamagic> nice :) Can I try the fix too?
[11:49] <amigamagic> I miss this plugin from the 14.04 release: "xfce4-diskperf-plugin"
[11:50] <amigamagic> I mean, I think it was there in the previous versions
[11:50] <amigamagic> I cannot verify now, because I have installed 14.04 everywhere... :D
[11:50] <bluesabre> it's a package dependency issue... the network-manager-applet from https://launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/+archive/testing no longer depends on gnome-bluetooth
[11:50] <bluesabre> but there are a ton of packages you'll have to remove
[11:51] <bluesabre> since the dependency chain will pull in ubuntu stuff at that point
[11:51] <bluesabre> for your sanity, just remove indicator-datetime indicator-bluetooth indicator-keyboard
[11:52] <bluesabre> s/depends/recommends
[11:52] <amigamagic> maybe the safer and faster approach could be to just hide the duplicated indicators?
[11:52] <knome> amigamagic, please, you're being told; the issue is being fixed
[11:53] <knome> we know what we're doing
[11:53] <bluesabre> yeah, but in that case they are still running
[11:53] <knome> there's no way you can help
[11:53] <bluesabre> if you'd like, you're welcome to hide them on your system
[11:53] <bluesabre> we'll have the fix in time for final release
[11:54] <amigamagic> ok, actually I'm already hiding them
[11:54] <amigamagic> :)
[11:58] <amigamagic> knome: "there is no way you can help" is a very horrible phrase to say... If you don't want support from users, I wonder why this channel is public. Peace and love, ok? :)
[12:00] <knome> amigamagic, please don't try to understand me wrong
[12:00] <knome> amigamagic, the fix is in the way to land to the ISO
[12:00] <knome> amigamagic, at this point, there is nothing you can do to help it being there faster
[12:00] <knome> amigamagic, and it's not really helpful to suggest other ways to fix it
[12:01] <knome> amigamagic, all help is appreciated but we're mulling over an issue that's not an issue really.
[12:02] <amigamagic> knome, there was this phrase that confused me: "for your sanity, just remove indicator-datetime indicator-bluetooth indicator-keyboard", so I thought it was not completely fixed, but then I understood its meaning
[12:03] <amigamagic> and in fact, after that I wrote: "ok, actually I'm already hiding them" :)
[12:06] <amigamagic> a last thing: the last minute fixes will be in the repositories too, so that I can update the relative packages and get the fix me too, or I should reinstall the distro with the new updated iso?
[12:07] <elfy> anything that is landed will be in the repos
[12:08] <amigamagic> ok, thanks elfy
[14:54] <amigamagic> another little (but annoying) bug found: if you open the task manager and you have italian language set as your current locale, if you go in the preferences of the task manager to change the displayed columns of the tasks, you will see two identical elements: PID and PID. The latter should be UID. If you select both PID, the task list too will display the two columns with the same heading text.
[14:54] <amigamagic> The english locale doesn't have this bug.
[14:55] <amigamagic> So, it's just a translation error.
[15:04] <brainwash> amigamagic: please report bugs/errors on launchpad and/or https://bugzilla.xfce.org/
[15:09] <amigamagic> thanks I will do that
[18:32] <brainwash> elfy: please test xfpm from my PPA
[18:39] <brainwash> elfy: and before doing this, change the action of your power button to "suspend" and press the button
[18:39] <brainwash> in xfce4-power-manager-power-settings ofc
[18:39] <brainwash> does this also trigger the black screen?
[18:41] <elfy> nope
[18:42] <elfy> all that triggers black screen here is lid close
[18:43] <Logan_> knome: I'll upload the abiword fix now
[18:43] <knome> Logan_, cheers
[18:44] <elfy> brainwash: nor did I test the power button 
[18:47] <brainwash> elfy: power button test it needed :)
[18:48] <elfy> then I should have already have tested it ;)
[18:49] <brainwash> it should also trigger the black screen
[18:49] <elfy> sigh - long day - just set the power button on this machine to suspend ... 
[18:49] <elfy> laptop is upgrading atm
[18:54] <brainwash> we started to get reports about this problem just recently (~1 week)
[18:55] <brainwash> not counting the report which targets xubuntu + xfce 4.11 from ppa
[18:57] <brainwash> light-locker is the default lock option since 2014-03-21
[18:57] <Logan_> knome: uploaded :)
[18:57] <knome> maybe nobody locked their PC for three weeks
[18:57] <knome> Logan_, noticed, thanks
[18:59] <elfy> brainwash: so with PPA - suspend from power button works, suspend with lid close fails
[19:00] <brainwash> with PPA o.o
[19:00] <brainwash> did you restart xfpm before suspending?
[19:00] <elfy> possibly ... 
[19:01] <elfy> not ...
[19:03] <Unit193> thunar crash. \o/
[19:05] <brainwash> how?
[19:05] <elfy> brainwash: so with PPA - suspend from power button works, suspend with lid close fails
[19:05] <elfy> still
[19:05] <brainwash> ok, thanks
[19:06] <Unit193> in 'g_node_traverse()'
[19:06] <elfy> brainwash: anything else?
[19:06] <brainwash> elfy: not right now
[19:06] <elfy> I thought we had this fixed previously
[20:39] <amigamagic> why the option to save the session at logout is not actived as default?
[20:40] <amigamagic> every time I logged out, after logging in the order in which I arranged the icons was changed
[20:40] <amigamagic> and I discovered that it was because the option to save the session at the logout was not selected
[20:55] <knome> amigamagic, because that confuses most people if enabled.
[20:59] <amigamagic> I think it's the contrary
[21:00] <ali1234> icons?
[21:00] <amigamagic> I was confused because after relogging I found my icons rearranged in a different way
[21:00] <ali1234> you mean desktop icons?
[21:00] <amigamagic> yes
[21:00] <ali1234> that's really saved in the session?
[21:00] <amigamagic> yes
[21:00] <ali1234> wow
[21:00] <ali1234> that's dumb
[21:01] <ali1234> i wonder why
[21:01] <Unit193> amigamagic: That's not what that does, session save saves the open applications and stuff.
[21:01] <ali1234> yeah, that's what i thought
[21:01] <amigamagic> hey guys, you can try yourself, what can I say...
[21:01] <ali1234> but if you turn session saving on, it makes it remember desktop icon positions?
[21:01] <ali1234> no, i can believe you... there's a lot of weird stuff in the code
[21:01] <amigamagic> to me it happens in this way... I don't know if it's the correct behaviour
[21:02] <ali1234> that should really be stored independently to the session
[21:02] <ali1234> i might look in to it
[21:02] <Unit193> amigamagic: I have tried it, it does exactly what I say...
[21:02] <amigamagic> anyway, if I don't click on save session on logout, my desktop icons will be rearranged in alphabetic order
[21:02] <Unit193> Mind aren't all grouped, still good upon login.
[21:03] <ali1234> are these "file/launcher icons"?
[21:03] <ali1234> or "minimized application icons"?
[21:03] <amigamagic> launcher icons (in the terminology of thunar)
[21:03] <ali1234> hmm... my icons don't get rearranged on login
[21:04] <ali1234> and i never save the session
[21:05] <amigamagic> sorry guys... I don't know why, but now my icons are always rearranged in alphabetic order, even if I save the session on logout...
[21:05] <ali1234> maybe it was a code change
[21:05] <Unit193> "even if I save the session on logout..." So if it doesn't "fix" it, why do you think it fixes it?
[21:05] <ali1234> xfdesktop has seen a lot of changes lately
[21:05] <amigamagic> I don't know why... And if I move a desktop icon in a far place (to the far right, for example), after log out and log in, I will find the icons ordered on the left again.ù
[21:06] <ali1234> what happens if you open a terminal and run "killall xfdesktop"
[21:06] <ali1234> it should restart just the desktop icons
[21:06] <amigamagic> Unit193, I was wrong, what can I say... but the problem remains...
[21:06] <amigamagic> ali1234, now I try...
[21:07]  * Unit193 ponders permission problems.
[21:07] <amigamagic> ok, with killall xfdesktop, the icons keep their position
[21:07] <ali1234> hmm
[21:07] <ali1234> hmm
[21:07] <ali1234> okay i just reproduced it by killall xfdesktop
[21:08] <ali1234> but only on the latest version
[21:08] <amigamagic> yes I'm on 14.04
[21:08] <ali1234> before i had an old git snapshot installed and it didn't forget the positions
[21:08] <ali1234> so this is a recent change (past couple of weeks)
[21:08] <ali1234> and a bug
[21:08] <amigamagic> to you killall xfdesktop forgets the previous positions?
[21:09] <ali1234> hmm... it only happened once, when i changed between the two versions
[21:09] <ali1234> so perhaps the way it is stored canged
[21:09] <ali1234> eric_the_idiot: any idea about this?
[21:09] <ali1234> eric_the_idiot: when "upgrading" xfdesktop, icon positions are lost...
[21:10] <ali1234> i can't reproduce again though
[21:10] <amigamagic> ali1234, now the problem to me seems casual... Sometimes it remembers the positions, other times it doesn't remember them...
[21:11] <amigamagic> Now I tried to log out and log in and the icons are at their previous positions, but I saved the session. I don't know if this is related to the saving of the session
[21:11] <ali1234> ah
[21:11] <ali1234> i see why it happened for me
[21:11] <ali1234> the two different versions of xfdesktop draw the icon grid a different size
[21:12] <ali1234> if you put an icon in the bottom right with the old version it gets pushed off the screen on the new version
[21:12] <ali1234> so then it resets all the positions
[21:14] <amigamagic> wait... I'm on a virtual machine (vmware)... If i change the window size, the icons will be automatically rearranged and sorted
[21:14] <ali1234> yep
[21:14] <ali1234> that must be it
[21:14] <amigamagic> but if I return to the previous size (fullscreen) the icons will have again their previous positions
[21:15] <ali1234> look in ~/.config/xfce4/desktop
[21:15] <ali1234> it appears to store the icon positions for each screen size
[21:16] <amigamagic> yes you are right!
[21:16] <ali1234> see, i told you there was weird stuff :)
[21:17] <amigamagic> this doesn't happen with the old xfce?
[21:17] <ali1234> xfdesktop has been heavily reworked recently
[21:18] <amigamagic> but I think is related to the session save
[21:18] <ali1234> no, it's really not
[21:19] <amigamagic> because if I logout without saving the session, after login the icons are resorted
[21:19] <amigamagic> and this time I didn't change the resolution
[21:19] <amigamagic> it's not completely clear to me how this works...
[21:19] <ali1234> hmmmm
[21:20] <knome> reproduce it with a real machine next...
[21:20] <amigamagic> maybe those files in ~/.config/xfce4/desktop are created only if you save the session
[21:20] <ali1234> no, because i never save the session
[21:20] <amigamagic> ah, ok
[21:20] <ali1234> they are created as soon as you move an icon
[21:21] <ali1234> also they are updated as soon as you move an icon too
[21:21] <ali1234> just watch the timestamps...
[21:21] <amigamagic> ok, I want to do a last test... Let's start from 0: now i have a certain resolution and I will not change it. Good. The icons are actually rearranged and sorted on the left side, from the top.
[21:22] <amigamagic> Now I will try to move "one" icon of a single position on the right.
[21:22] <amigamagic> Ok, now I logout without saving the session.
[21:23] <amigamagic> Ok, after relogging the moved icon is where I had left.
[21:24] <amigamagic> I think on a real machine is more difficult to reproduce the problem (if there is a problem) because usually you use always the same resolution.
[21:24] <ali1234> if you save session it might influence the order that programs start up, which in turn might make xfdesktop see the wrong screen size, because it subtracts panels
[21:25] <ali1234> in general, session saving is just a confusing mess
[21:25] <ali1234> which is why we turned it off
[21:25] <Unit193> ^
[21:25] <ali1234> it also has fun side effects like you accidentally close the panel, and then you can never get it back
[21:28] <amigamagic> ali1234, I confirm you that it's a problem of resolution change. If I enlarge the window even of 1 pixel, the icons apparently are always where you placed them before, but after log out and log in they will be resorted.
[21:28] <knome> sounds like a feature to me
[21:29] <ali1234> it could perhaps be a little smarter
[21:29] <ali1234> but that's wishlist, not a bug :)
[21:29] <amigamagic> I don't think it's the desirable behaviour, because if I keep the icons in some way, I expect that I will find them where I placed them before...
[21:29] <knome> well, there is no way to sort the icons in the "right" way if you first have a big resolution and icons all over the place, then a small resolution 
[21:30] <amigamagic> knome, yes there is: you keep them where they are at the moment you log out
[21:30] <ali1234> yeah, you would lose icons off the screen, that's to be avoided
[21:30] <ali1234> however, it could use the same layout if the new screen is bigger than the old one
[21:30] <amigamagic> ali1234, I think that it's true only for the icons on the far right
[21:30] <ali1234> (if it doesn't already, and i think it does)
[21:31] <amigamagic> it's desirable that those icons are moved a little on the left until they are inside the new screen resolution
[21:31] <knome> ugh
[21:31] <knome> no, i think the current way is sane
[21:32] <amigamagic> but now xfce desktop will rearrange them and resort them whenever you change the resolution even of 1 pixel
[21:32] <knome> amigamagic, stop insisting.
[21:32] <knome> amigamagic, we triaged that already
[21:33] <knome> if you use a virtual machine and keep changing the resolution, you'll have to accept there might be consequences to it
[21:33] <knome> it's an edge case
[21:33] <ali1234> it will also happen if you move panels
[21:33] <ali1234> or plug in an extra monitor
[21:34] <amigamagic> knome, I'm not insisting, don't take me wrong, I'm only talking with you to understand what happens now in the current implementation
[21:34] <knome> ali1234, did you check if that's true?
[21:34] <knome> ali1234, i'd imagine icon positions are saved per monitor?
[21:35] <ali1234> no, they're not. they are saved per screen
[21:35] <ali1234> the actual area is all monitors with struts subtracted
[21:35] <ali1234> moving panels moves the struts, so it chanes the effective resolution that xfdesktop sees
[21:36] <knome> ali1234, so is the layout kept if the resolution is bigger than previously?
[21:36] <ali1234> hold on...
[21:37] <ali1234> no
[21:37] <amigamagic> and this is not a good thing, don't you think=
[21:37] <amigamagic> ?
[21:37] <ali1234> adjusting the monitor layout at all moves all icons back to screen 0 in alpha order
[21:37] <ali1234> even if you only move a monitor with no icons on it
[21:37] <ali1234> amigamagic: it's not great but it's better than losing icons
[21:37] <amigamagic> of course :)
[21:37] <brainwash> we don't even develop xfdesktop :(
[21:38] <knome> i'm between wishlist/low
[21:38] <ali1234> right, feel free to open a bug on the xfce bug tracker for this, but like i said, it's wishlist so don't expect it to get fixed
[21:38] <knome> i would still think it's an edge case...
[21:38] <amigamagic> so, if I change monitor with one with a bigger resolution, I will loose all the previous icon placement, right?
[21:39] <ali1234> probably
[21:39] <ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/tree/src/xfdesktop-icon-view.c#n3301
[21:39] <amigamagic> ok, good to know.
[21:39] <ali1234> apparently it does try to retain the positions
[21:40] <knome> apparently...
[21:40] <amigamagic> from the comment in the code: "This way icons stay somewhat stable during minor resolution changes"....
[21:41] <knome> is there an echo here?
[21:41] <ali1234> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfdesktop/log/src/xfdesktop-icon-view.c <- lots of changes in this code recent
[21:41] <brainwash> knome: do we need to ping anyone to get the patched thunar-volman in?
[21:41] <amigamagic> knome, are you mad with me? What have I done to you? Please, keep calm.
[21:42] <knome> brainwash, is is prepared somewhere?
[21:42] <knome> brainwash, yes, we need an ACK from the release team it's ok to land it
[21:42] <ali1234> amigamagic: you have to understand, we just package the software and ship it... all the development work is done upstream
[21:42] <knome> brainwash, then we need a sponsor
[21:42] <brainwash> knome: yes, my branch is linked to the bug report
[21:42] <knome> amigamagic, i'm not mad at you
[21:43] <knome> brainwash, did i miss the bug report or didn't you paste it?
[21:43] <brainwash> -bugs :)
[21:43] <brainwash> bug 1210898
[21:43] <knome> thanks
[21:43] <knome> right
[21:44] <ali1234> amigamagic: also it's one week before release, if it isn't a serious crashing bug or something that will corrupt your HD, it isn't going to get fixed at this point
[21:45] <amigamagic> Don't worry, I don't care if it is corrected before the official release (I would be very surprised if it was), I wanted only to report a "possible" bug as a feedback from an user.
[21:48] <knome> amigamagic, this kind of bugs should (always) be reported on launchpad
[21:48] <amigamagic> ok, I wanted to know if happened only to me, to be sure
[21:48] <amigamagic> but anyway is not a critical bug
[21:49] <knome> amigamagic, ubuntu-bug package_name, then report the issue; after that, can ask if somebody can confirm the bug
[21:49] <ali1234> there is a wishlist bug for "icon settings per monitor"
[21:49] <knome> ali1234, ++ for that :)
[21:49] <ali1234> also lots of bugs involving icons getting lost behind panels (which i presume are now fixed)
[21:49] <ali1234> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9774
[21:50] <knome> brainwash, asking for an ACK at -release
[21:51] <ali1234> amigamagic: don't worry about posting invalid or dupe bugs on launchpad - it's much easier for us to deal with them that way anyway
[21:52] <amigamagic> ok, I will do that, thanks :)
[21:52] <ali1234> as long as you post a good report that we can try to reproduce someone should look at it
[21:53] <amigamagic> I will try to make an easlily reproducible test
[21:53] <amigamagic> and sorry for my english, I'm not a native english speaker
[21:54] <ali1234> you might as well post this one straight on bugzilla.xfce.org
[21:54] <ali1234> you can post it on both if you want, if you do, please link the bug reports
[21:55] <amigamagic> one each of them I place the link of the other bug report?
[21:55] <ali1234> on launchpad you click "also affects project" and then paste the link to the xfce bug
[21:55] <ali1234> you can't link it the other way
[21:57] <amigamagic> so I will file the report first on bugzilla.xfce.org
[21:57] <ali1234> sure. make sure to get the right component- xfdesktop
[21:57] <ali1234> er, product
[21:58] <amigamagic> ok
[21:59] <brainwash> time to apt-get update and install the patched abiword
[22:03] <brainwash> so, now only the back screen problem remains
[22:03] <knome> back screen? turn your monitor!
[22:03] <knome> ;)
[22:03] <brainwash> oh
[22:04] <brainwash> black I mean
[22:04] <knome> i know, i'm just kidding
[22:08] <brainwash> maybe I should upgrade my laptop to 14.04, because I cannot reproduce it with 13.10 (same test scenario)
[22:09] <knome> maybe
[22:09] <knome> it's pretty safe at this point
[22:09] <knome> or, at least not that much more dangerous than after thu...
[22:12] <knome> http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-t/group/topic-t-flavor-xubuntu.html
[22:12] <knome> pretty nice looking graph...
[22:13] <brainwash> colorful
[22:15] <brainwash> hopefully people will enjoy the new release
[22:15] <amigamagic> I love it already
[22:16] <knome> brainwash, we have an ACK
[22:17] <brainwash> wow, so we just need to change the priority to 'high' and can land everything we want? :P
[22:17] <knome> no...
[22:17] <knome> i discussed it with slangasek in -release
[22:17] <brainwash> thanks, I did not bother to join channel =S
[22:18] <brainwash> kinda sleepy already
[22:18] <knome> what was your timezone again?
[22:19] <knome> Logan_, hey.. you around? :)
[22:19] <Logan_> kinda busy :P
[22:20] <knome> Logan_, we got an ACK for bug 1210898, the fix is in a branch with a merge request. do you think you could get to that sometime soonish?
[23:22] <olbi> http://hexchat.github.io/ - an IRC client based on XChat, but unlike XChat it’s completely free for both Windows and Unix-like systems :D
[23:47] <amigamagic> I have a problem with bugzilla...
[23:47] <amigamagic> the latest version of xfdesktop that I can choose is 4.10.0
[23:48] <amigamagic> but in xubuntu there is a more recent version
[23:49] <amigamagic> in xubuntu 14.04 the version of xfdesktop is 4.11.6-1ubuntu1
[23:49] <amigamagic> how should I file the bug report in bugzilla.xfce.org site? I can choose "unspecified" too in the version list box
[23:55] <amigamagic> for now I will file the report in the 4.10.0 branch...
[23:55] <amigamagic> I don't see alternatives