[00:02] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: about unity not being reloaded... It's weird that pstree shows it as a child of gnome-session instead of init, I thought it was reloaded by upstart actually... but it doesn't seem the case..
[00:02] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: looking better I found why
[00:02] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: /usr/share/gnome-session/sessions/ubuntu.session contains the word compiz
[00:03] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: but... /usr/share/upstart/sessions/unity7.conf has a "raw grep" for compiz on that file
[00:03] <Trevinho> thus we're still running unity7 via gs!
[00:04] <Trevinho> when moving to upstart (i.e. removing that compiz check), then all goes as it should using upstart, and thus killing unity reloads it forever
[00:04] <Trevinho> olli: ^
[00:05] <olli> Trevinho, what does that mean
[00:06] <Trevinho> olli: that we are currently (for a mistake I think) running unity7 via gnome-session, and this leads not to get the respawns on compiz crashes
[00:07] <olli> Trevinho, ok
[00:07] <Trevinho> for some reason it has been working for long time, then a change on the ubuntu.session file in gnome-session caused this to change
[00:08] <olli> Trevinho, might be good to update the bug with that finding
[00:08] <Trevinho> I think we should SRU the thing at this point :/
[00:08] <olli> and then I think you can call it a day
[00:08] <olli> yeah, this is SRY material
[00:09] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: what's the compiz mention in RequiredComponents actually does? Launch it if it's not there? or what? As the unity upstart file was checking if compiz was mentioned there (as exec file I think)
[00:10] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, I'm not 100% sure but it used to launch them
[00:10] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, our required component list should probably be blank since we use upstart but there's some side effects probably
[00:11] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: yeah... so what we should fix is unity at this point, making it to run with upstart in any case... then if this fails for some reason will g-s do that
[00:11] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: if g-s doesn't arrive first of it...
[00:12] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, yeah, they're both trying to keep the process alive
[00:12] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: yes, but g-s seems not to be reliable as upstart is
[00:12] <robert_ancell> g-s must die :)
[00:13] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: and I will help to do that :)
[00:13] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: as for its removal btw, (related to the ML), unity needs to also update its session managements... As we rely on it for events right now (mostly for the power-button press thing)
[00:14] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, yes, we will probably find lots of things relying on these sorts of interfaces when we remove them (found a bunch of them in unity-greeter)
[00:28] <infinity> robru: Should be able to hit it now.
[00:30] <robru> infinity, ok, published
[00:30] <infinity> \o/
[00:30] <robru> olli, hit publish, should be in proposed soon
[00:31] <infinity> robru: Accepted, thanks.
[00:31] <robru> infinity, thank you
[01:09] <Trevinho> robru: FYI I've all prepared to get the fix to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1308800 as well
[01:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308800 in Unity "Unity doesn't respawn all the times on crashes" [Critical,In progress]
[01:10] <robru> Trevinho, what? are you saying I have to build that in a new silo in time for release as well? infinity ^^ ??
[01:10] <Trevinho> robru: I was wondering of SRUing it at this point
[01:11] <Trevinho> robru: unfortunately I noticed it just an ~ hour ago
[01:12] <robru> Trevinho, I'm not building it without an ack from management because this is just too close to the deadline for me. i'm literally having anxiety attacks about this.
[01:12] <Trevinho> robru: well, you don't need to build the fix... you can just test it by your own
[01:12] <Trevinho> robru: it's just about modifing a conf file
[01:12] <Trevinho> or two if you prefer
[01:13] <robru> Trevinho, but still, the package would need to be rebuilt in order to get this in the release right now
[01:13] <olli> robru, that's an SRY
[01:13] <Trevinho> robru: yep... that's why I said of SRUing it, but it's up to release team... as it still might be important
[01:13] <olli> Trevinho, let's play safe
[01:14] <robru> olli, yeah
[01:14] <robru> olli, unity *just* hit release pocket btw
[01:14] <olli> robru, saw that, thx
[01:34] <rickspencer3> olli, I just did a dist-upgrade, got a new lib-unity-core, restarted, and def. can't repro the crasher in the greater
[01:49] <kieppie> I'm wondering if it's possible to extend my dektop over network to my TV or something via DLNA - i.e. use my 'DLNA renderer' in a similar manner as simply plugging in my HDMI cable
[08:03] <Laney> morning
[08:03] <apw> Laney, moin
[08:03] <Laney> hey apw
[08:03] <Laney> how's life in the seat of power?
[08:03] <Laney> assuming you are there :P
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney apw
[08:04] <Laney> hey seb128, how goes?
[08:04] <seb128> looks like there was some unity lock screen fun yesterday evening
[08:04] <seb128> Laney, good! you? how was tha clown climbing? :p
[08:05] <Laney> was good!
[08:05] <apw> "fun" indded :)
[08:10] <mlankhorst> morning
[08:26] <mlankhorst> yeah Laney, so far I just saw a fixed issue
[08:27] <Laney> hmm?
[08:27] <mlankhorst> worst case is that you're hitting it :P
[08:27] <Laney> well you got it too
[08:27] <Laney> so can try the patch?
[08:27] <mlankhorst> I guess the fix is not in 10.1.0 yet, might be in 10.1.1
[08:28] <Laney> those mutual conflicts are annoying
[08:29] <Laney> another affect is that it means liboxideqtcode0's changelog in /usr/share/doc is a broken symlink
[08:29] <Laney> if you have -extra installed
[08:31] <mlankhorst> yeah
[08:31] <Laney> effect
[08:31] <Laney> grr
[08:38] <mhr3> seb128, ping? some time ago you reported that apps don't show up properly, right? do you remember against what did you open it?
[08:39] <seb128> mhr3, hey
[08:40] <seb128> mhr3, bug #1223933 ?
[08:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1223933 in libunity "sometimes the dash home list "no result matching your query" string" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223933
[08:40] <mlankhorst> Laney: suspecting https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75279 -- will be fixed in 10.1.1 though :P
[08:40] <ubot2> Freedesktop bug 75279 in Driver/nouveau "XCloseDisplay() takes one minute around nouveau_dri.so, freezing Firefox startup" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[08:40] <Laney> mlankhorst: can/will you try it?
[08:40] <mlankhorst> yeah
[08:41] <Laney> mhr3: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1308037 was my one from the other day
[08:41] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308037 in unity (Ubuntu) "No results from application lens" [Undecided,New]
[08:42] <mhr3> seb128, Laney, thx
[08:42] <seb128> mhr3, yw!
[08:42] <Laney> someone commented with a possible dupe in that one too
[08:42] <Laney> so there's three for you :P
[08:44] <seb128> mhr3, since you are looking at bugs, could you add bug #1194465 to your list/ping whoever is working on that?
[08:44] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1194465 in unity-scope-gdrive (Ubuntu) "scope-runner-dbus.py crashed with SIGSEGV in auth_session_remote_object_destroyed_cb()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1194465
[08:45] <seb128> mhr3, is that a signon/mardy thing?
[08:45] <mhr3> seb128, yep
[08:45] <seb128> mhr3, can you reassign/ping him or should I do it?
[08:46] <mhr3> seb128, feel free to
[08:47] <mhr3> seb128, it's been a while anyway really touched that
[08:47] <mhr3> davidcalle, even you did ;)
[08:47] <seb128> mhr3, would be good for you to refresh your knowledge of that code then ;-)
[08:48] <mhr3> seb128, there's no refresh, i never touched it :)
[08:48] <Laney> fresh
[08:48] <seb128> mhr3, opportunity to learn then!
[08:48] <seb128> mhr3, stop being that lazy ;-)
[08:48] <mhr3> seb128, it's called delegating :)
[08:49] <seb128> lol
[08:54] <Laney> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1128
[08:54] <Laney> looks beardy
[09:09] <mlankhorst> [ 4883.702555] nouveau E[   PFIFO][0000:01:00.0] read fault at 0x00134f5000 [PAGE_NOT_PRESENT] from PGRAPH/DISPATCH on channel 0x005f72f000 [memcheck-amd64-[18054]]
[09:09] <mlankhorst> progress, I guess :P
[09:13] <mlankhorst> now a different crash :s
[09:38] <mlankhorst> ok got it
[09:39] <mlankhorst> Laney: it's an entry level issue, you should be able to fix it. :D
[09:39] <Laney> ¬_¬
[09:40] <mlankhorst> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-nouveau/+bug/1300411
[09:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1300411 in xserver-xorg-video-nouveau (Ubuntu) "Xorg crashed with SIGSEGV in pushbuf_flush()" [Medium,New]
[09:41] <seb128> xclaesse, hey, could you have a look to https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662672#c9 ?
[09:41] <ubot2> Gnome bug 662672 in Chat "wrong count of unread messages and text missing" [Normal,New]
[09:46] <mvo> mpt: hi, there is a certain chance that the apt-get update progressbar jumps around might get solved by fixing apt
[09:46] <mvo> mpt: (I thought you might want to hear about this as iirc its one of the things that look unpolished)
[10:08] <mpt> mvo, as I understand it, any repository referred to in sources.list can itself refer to any number of other repositories, correct?
[10:20] <mvo> mpt: I don't think this is the case (unless I misunderstand something). there will be a bunch of files that get download and before the Release file is parsed what files is a bit uncertain, but once the Release file is fetched apt has a pretty good idea what needs to be fetched, it was just not making good use of that information :/
[10:23] <mpt> mvo, oh, excellent! So we need to use an indeterminate progress bar only while reading the Release file. Then we can allocate ~5% of the determinate bar to reading the sources, ~45% to downloading packages, and  and ~50% to installing packages.
[10:25] <mvo> mpt: yeah, that is the plan, adding a state "gathering data" or something for the very early fetching and once the release file is there, the data should be pretty accurate (modulo corner cases like right now we don't have the size of the translations file in our release file, but that is a bug that will get fixed)
[10:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, jasoncwarner what's the word on the street? how does the release look today?
[10:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey, looking good (finger crossed that there isn't another screenlock issue or similar)
[10:43] <rickspencer3> seb128, for sure!
[10:45] <seb128> ogra_, stop trolling on the desktop list!
[10:45] <ogra_> seb128, lol
[10:45] <ogra_> well, tomorrow is a holiday here ... so its "kind of friday" :)
[10:46] <seb128> ogra_, what people are saying is that they don't want to have a non-good-enough-to-get-work-done solution pushed on them over what they have it's working
[10:46] <seb128> ogra_, like "don't force a metro UI on my windows, I need to get work done"
[10:47] <seb128> ogra_, nobody said we don't want system-images, but we don't want them today if it means you can't install e.g the gimp anymore because it has no click and there are no solution to install debs
[10:48] <seb128> ogra_, the day we can switch without undermining our desktop experience we should/are going to do it
[10:48] <ogra_> seb128, well, IMHo we need to start from the bottom ... not at the UI level
[10:48] <seb128> right
[10:48] <seb128> but we need to swap the pieces only when they are ready
[10:48] <seb128> not say "ok, no libreoffice or gimp for you anymore for the next 1.5 years until we reach feature parity"
[10:49] <ogra_> which is why i point out that we should first get the plumbing layer ready while unity8 desktop development should be done in parallel ... but only land when its done
[10:49] <seb128> right
[10:49] <ogra_> we just need to re-package them as click ;)
[10:49] <seb128> nobody argued against that
[10:49] <ogra_> will make the tablet people happy too ;)
[10:49] <seb128> we need to get click working on the desktop unity first
[10:49] <ogra_> indeed
[10:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, and desktop team, I hope it's not premature to say congrats on 14.04
[10:52] <seb128> ogra_, oh, and I don't believe that you not going to be online at some point tomorrow, to read reviews and troll a bit
[10:52] <rickspencer3> I've been using is since October, of course, but ...
[10:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks ;-)
[10:53] <rickspencer3> it's been working really well
[10:53] <ogra_> seb128, lol
[10:53] <seb128> ;-)
[10:53] <tseliot> seb128: hi, do we map the touchscreen input onto a display output (in 14.04)? If so, what part of the desktop deals with it?
[10:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, yep, we are quite happy with how this cycle went as well
[10:53] <ogra_> yeah, you guys did an awesome job
[10:53] <ogra_> !!
[10:53] <rickspencer3> that's great
[10:55] <tseliot> seb128: I'm asking because of bug #1287341
[10:55] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1287341 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Touchscreen controls both screens in dual-monitor setup" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1287341
[10:56] <seb128> tseliot, I don't think we map those no
[10:56] <seb128> tseliot, that bug/the upstream one referenced basically have the context
[10:57] <seb128> tseliot, bregma said the kernel doesn't provide us enough info to do clever matching
[10:57] <seb128> Laney, so, release notes ... seems like neither robert_ancell nor bregma edited them. I think I'm going to have a look after lunch, just checking if you started thinking about those to not dup work
[10:58] <tseliot> seb128: ok, I'll look into this issue. Maybe I'll work on a fix myself
[11:00] <Laney> seb128: just loaded that
[11:03] <seb128> tseliot, that would be great
[11:03] <seb128> Laney, ok, let me know if you start on it/what sections you add
[11:03] <seb128> bregma might still want to add the notes for unity
[11:03] <seb128> quite some features to cover there ;-)
[11:03] <Laney> It's got a little paragraph
[11:03] <seb128> but first lunch
[11:03] <seb128> bbiab
[11:36] <apw> Laney, let me know when you are done with the release notes ...
[11:37] <Laney> apw: sec
[11:38] <apw> Laney, don't rush, just bored of hitting refresh :)
[11:42] <Laney> apw: ok, there you go
[11:57] <Laney> seb128: added a couple of bugs, but couldn't think of that many
[11:58] <seb128> Laney, you just edited known issue, not "what changed"?
[11:58] <Laney> yep
[11:58] <Laney> what do you want to put in there?
[11:58] <seb128> ok, I'm going to try to complete the what changed
[11:58] <Laney> type ahead find in nautilus
[11:58] <Laney> $updates to things
[11:58] <seb128> need to look at what we did
[11:59] <Laney> could add libreoffice
[11:59] <seb128> but stuff like traditional menus for defaults apps, improved settings
[11:59] <seb128> libreoffice
[11:59] <seb128> unity has a ton of stuff
[11:59] <Laney> there's already a unity section
[11:59] <seb128> I should look at the top 10 trusty features websites featured
[11:59] <seb128> cool
[12:01] <seb128> hum, who added it?
[12:01] <Laney> not sure, I edited it a little bit
[12:01] <Laney> hoping bregma can do it properly
[12:02] <seb128> we can probably add some stuff, like new decorations with live resizing, smaller launcher icons configuration from settings
[12:02]  * Laney is adding some features atm
[12:02] <seb128> yeah, same here
[12:02] <Laney> I didn't know what was worth adding
[12:02] <Laney> like what's too minor, I thought live resizing would be not important enough
[12:02] <Laney> don't write over my lock :P
[12:03] <Laney> maybe wait until I'm done otherwise it's likely we will write the same thing
[12:06] <seb128> sure
[12:07] <Laney> bah, someone else edited it meanwhile
[12:07] <seb128> Laney, https://plus.google.com/+System76/posts/68DEWHK9Sba
[12:07] <seb128> Laney, use that maybe?
[12:07] <Laney> asac!
[12:07] <asac> Laney: did i cause a conflict?
[12:07] <Laney> no but you did break the lock
[12:08] <Laney> in that sense every edit is a conflict
[12:08] <asac> ?
[12:08] <asac> hmmmmmmmm
[12:08] <asac> Laney: you can just kill my changes if thats easier
[12:08] <Laney> it's ok
[12:09] <asac> sorry
[12:09] <asac> Laney: i will leave it alone for a while now.
[12:09] <Laney> moin wasn't too bad about it
[12:09] <Laney> it merged the changes and showed me the bits that i'd edited
[12:09] <asac> nice
[12:09] <asac> yeah think the doc is long enough that conflicts shouldnt be too hard
[12:11] <seb128> Laney, bregma: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/trusty/view/head:/ubuntu-help/C/whats-new.page can also be used as inspiration
[12:12] <Laney> yeah
[12:12] <seb128> Laney, do you know if we aim the notes to 13.10 updaters or 12.04 ones?
[12:13] <Laney> I'm done for now
[12:13] <Laney> I think it's for this release, there's more marketing stuff for LTS upgraders
[12:13] <seb128> k
[12:13] <Laney> I made sections for LO and Xorg
[12:13] <Laney> if Sweetshark and mlankhorst want to fill those in if they have anything to put
[12:14] <seb128> that would be nice
[12:14] <seb128> Sweetshark, libreoffice 4.2 marketing speech on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes ? ;-)
[12:14] <Laney> Just put a few bullets, don't make it really long
[12:15] <seb128> yeah, I was mostly joking with "marketing speech" ;-)
[12:15] <Laney> :P
[12:15]  * seb128 notes don't joke too much with Sweetshark he's able to write a book on libreoffice awesomeness
[12:15] <mlankhorst> not much for xorg tbh
[12:16] <Laney> /mesa/drivers/whatever
[12:16] <mlankhorst> 'tries to break less in optimus configs, probably'
[12:16] <seb128> that's a good one
[12:16] <seb128> didn't you get support for dri3 and stuff?
[12:17] <Laney> any hybrid graphics things?
[12:17] <mlankhorst> the kernel doesn't support it yet, I think.
[12:17] <Laney> is is that what optimus is
[12:17] <mlankhorst> and from what I read on the mailing list some of it is still sketchy
[12:17] <Laney> ALL the is
[12:17] <mlankhorst> optimus = driving your intel card from your nvidia card
[12:19] <Laney> well, delete the section if you don't have anything interesting to put
[12:19] <Laney> if you know any bugs that you want the 2 people who read release notes to be aware of then put them in the bottom bit
[12:19]  * Laney lunches
[12:20] <mlankhorst> no I fixed most of them before release, I guess nouveau webapps counts :P
[12:20] <mlankhorst> but not worth putting in release notes
[12:23] <Sweetshark> seb128: argh.
[12:23]  * Sweetshark starts the bullshit bingo generator.
[12:26] <Sweetshark> seb128: thats still news against 13.10 only, not LTS->LTS, right?
[12:26] <seb128> Sweetshark, correct
[12:29] <Trevinho> Laney: when back could you update the Unity part on the release note to include something liike http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7267693/ ?
[12:31] <seb128> Trevinho, it's a wiki, just edit it?
[12:31] <Trevinho> seb128: it's immutable to me :(
[12:31] <seb128> Trevinho, are you logged in?
[12:31] <Trevinho> seb128: I guess they locked it for release
[12:31] <Trevinho> seb128: yep
[12:32] <seb128> no they didn't
[12:32] <seb128> you might need to be an ubuntu member or something
[12:32] <seb128> you are not member?
[12:32] <Trevinho> seb128: oh, well now I can go in :o
[12:32] <Trevinho> seb128: I do
[12:32] <seb128> go in = edit?
[12:32] <Trevinho> weird, it was immutable before...
[12:32] <seb128> weird
[12:32] <seb128> well, as long as it's back ;-)
[12:33] <Trevinho> seb128: well, it still is, unless I don't edit manually the URL...
[12:33] <Trevinho> seb128: it turns out that SSO was messed, :)
[12:34] <Trevinho> seb128: that text looks fine to you, btw?
[12:34] <seb128> Trevinho, yes, that looks fine to me
[12:35] <seb128> Trevinho, note that is already an Unity section with some of those items,so just update that
[12:36] <Trevinho> seb128: yes, I read it but it was a little too concise... :)
[12:36] <seb128> Trevinho, right, I'm just trying to make sure you saw it and don't duplicate (e.g update/delete the previous content)
[12:53] <Sweetshark> seb128: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Desktop_Features <- better?
[13:10] <Laney> hmm
[13:10] <Laney> I don't think all of those things need to be listed
[13:10] <Laney> lemme edit a bit
[13:15] <Laney> what is a 'windows disposition layout'?
[13:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, thanks
[13:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, "falt icon theme" ... ?
[13:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, is that supposed to be "flat" or?
[13:18] <Sweetshark> seb128: eh, falt -> flat
[13:18] <seb128> k
[13:18] <seb128> I was wondering if that was some tech word I didn't know
[13:18] <seb128> Sweetshark, be careful if you edit, Laney comment suggested he's doing that as well
[13:18] <Sweetshark> seb128: grumble, page is immutable anyway
[13:18] <seb128> though he was speaking about unity
[13:18] <seb128> so maybe no conflict
[13:19] <Sweetshark> ah, no. I had a magically disappearing login.
[13:19] <Laney> it's better to just wait
[13:19] <Sweetshark> interesting.
[13:19] <Sweetshark> Laney: will do.
[13:19] <Laney> it tells you if someone's editing the page when you go in there
[13:21] <Laney> Sweetshark: gogogo
[13:21] <Laney> well, if this ever saves
[13:21]  * Laney stares at the wiki
[13:22] <tedg> And the wiki stares back at Laney.
[13:22] <jdstrand> bregma: hey, chrisccoulson wants to fix bug #1307709
[13:22] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1307709 in Oxide "webbrowser-app does not start in Unity 8 preview session" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1307709
[13:22] <Laney> it's bored its way into my soul
[13:22]  * tedg wonders who will blink first
[13:23] <jdstrand> bregma: but he gets a black screen on starting unity8
[13:23] <jdstrand> chrisccoulson, bregma: discuss amongst yourselves :)
[13:25] <Laney> hahah I love the list of spreadsheet functions
[13:29] <asac> i dont understand this bug
[13:29] <asac> i was old it was tested yesteday
[13:29] <ogra_> asac, seems the desktop session doesnt use the unit8 upstart job
[13:29] <asac> ok seems its an old bug actually
[13:30] <asac> so guess desktop testers hav alreayd worked around this
[13:30] <asac> ogra_: sure, i know that. but its not a regression from our upload last night
[13:30] <ogra_> asac, definitely not
[13:30] <asac> but multiple people confirmed yuesterday
[13:30] <asac> that the oxide landing desktop plan was good
[13:30] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Process/Merges/TestPlan/webapp-container
[13:30] <asac> "restart your browser
[13:30] <asac> "
[13:30] <qengho> larsu: My messaging indicator is full. I suspect the client is dumb. Have any debugging advice, to make sure?  http://i.imgur.com/RM2nQ45.png
[13:32] <larsu> robru: stop bothering qengho so much!
[13:32] <qengho> I KNOW, RIGHT?
[13:33] <larsu> haha
[13:33] <larsu> I recently fixed a bug which had this symptom
[13:33] <larsu> does smuxy offer messaging menu integration as a plugin?
[13:33] <larsu> and you turned it off and on a lot?
[13:33] <larsu> (while talking to robru?)
[13:34] <chrisccoulson> jdstrand, bregma, NM, I got it to display by undocking my laptop and then restarting
[13:35] <bregma> chrisccoulson, one of either Mir or unity8 does not yet support multimonitor configurations
[13:35] <bregma> I dunno which, gonne need fixing this cycle
[13:35] <chrisccoulson> bregma, heh, i guessed :)
[13:35]  * bregma is going to be busier than ever
[13:35] <chrisccoulson> also, it doesn't like my touchpad. when i touch my touchpad, the cursor wanders towards the top left of the screen
[13:36] <qengho> larsu: There is, AFAIK, no plugin here, and I certainly wasn't toggling anything. It's full now, just as a matter of course.
[13:43]  * Sweetshark wouldnt have thought that tedg reads german philosophers ...
[13:44] <tedg> Sweetshark, I am the über-Texan
[13:44] <Sweetshark> lol
[13:45] <Sweetshark> sounds great. after all everything is bigger in Texas ;)
[13:46] <tedg> Yes, except our Eiffel Tower, but it has a cowboy hat on top to make up for it.
[13:49] <larsu> qengho: okay probably the client is buggy then. Can you call ListSources() on it's com.canonical.indicator.messages.application bus interface and paste the result?
[13:49] <Sweetshark> tedg: well, its been 138 years since the tallest building of the world stood in my hometown, so I guess we are out of the race already for a long time ..
[13:50] <tedg> Sweetshark, Clearly the solution is that the building needs a cowboy hat on top!
[13:54] <Sweetshark> tedg: That might raise some conflict. The building is a church, and while the spire is still standing the rest of it was bombed away by cowboys in operation gomorrah.
[13:55] <Sweetshark> tedg: But in general, that would indeed be the obvious solution.
[13:56] <tedg> Sweetshark, So you're saying what should happen here is that Texas should give an epic cowboy hat as a sign of peace and understanding, so that they'd feel compelled to put it on.
[13:57] <Sweetshark> tedg: that would work. ;)
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> bregma, how do I run a terminal in the unity8 preview?
[14:02] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, using the terminal app ?
[14:03] <ogra_> (or isnt that available)
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, where's that installed from?
[14:03] <chrisccoulson> nothing shows up in the session and I didn't find anything in the archive
[14:03] <ogra_> usually from the appstore ...
[14:03] <ogra_> search for terminal in the apps scope
[14:03] <tedg> I don't think click is on the desktop image
[14:03] <tedg> chrisccoulson, Just a sec, let me find the apps PPA
[14:04] <tedg> chrisccoulson, ppa:ubuntu-touch-coreapps-drivers/daily
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> tedg, thanks
[14:05] <tedg> chrisccoulson, There's a metapackage touch-coreapps
[14:05] <bregma> chrisccoulson, try clicking on the "Terminal" app, the latest update should launch OK
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> bregma, yeah, i need to install it first :)
[14:06] <bregma> chrisccoulson, also, you need to do what tedg suggests
[14:06] <chrisccoulson> bregma, i can't scroll the list of apps btw
[14:06]  * tedg finds that installing apps is just a gateway drug to using them
[14:06] <bregma> chrisccoulson, it sounds like you need to invest in a nice touchscreen
[14:07] <bregma> all the cool kids are doing it
[14:07] <pmcgowan> bregma, does it not work with mouse events?
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> bregma, or canonical needs to invest in one for me ;)
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> pmcgowan, no, it's pretty broken here with a mouse
[14:07] <chrisccoulson> and my cursor doesn't stay still when i tap the touchpad either
[14:08] <pmcgowan> thats seems like a problem
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> it's virtually unusable here :/
[14:08] <bregma> I use a mouse here because I can't stand trackpads, and I have no problems using a mouse
[14:08] <pmcgowan> ok good
[14:08] <pmcgowan> will load it up in a bit and see
[14:08] <bregma> the touchscreen on this test system is too flaky to rely on it, too
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> oh, the terminal only opens in the sidestage, giving my about 29 characters of width :/
[14:09] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to cry in a minute
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> can i make that wider?
[14:10] <pmcgowan> dont think so
[14:10] <chrisccoulson> i can't use a 29 character width terminal that I can't scroll :(
[14:11] <chrisccoulson> and tmux doesn't work in it either, so i can't even run that and drop to a tty to debug oxide :/
[14:28] <bregma> chrisccoulson, edit /usr/share/applications/com.ubuntu.terminal_terminal.desktop and remove the line X-Ubuntu-StageHint=SideStage
[14:28] <bregma> after that, things work swimmingly
[14:29] <bregma> I don't know why someone thinks terminal in a side stage is a good idea, perhaps they need to be thrashed
[14:30] <chrisccoulson> ah, thanks. will give that a try
[14:30] <bregma> they must be beaten about the head and shoulders with a blunt object until they confess to their conspiracy of progressive obstructionism
[14:30]  * bregma is done rambling for the nonce
[14:32] <chrisccoulson> aha, now I can't type anything in to it. i seem to get a random character every few keypresses
[14:32] <tedg> bregma, I think you should submit a patch ;-)
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> is there any way to switch between apps?
[14:33] <chrisccoulson> without a touch device?
[14:34] <olli> chrisccoulson, you pull the screen to the right with the mouse
[14:34] <olli> similar to the swipe on the phone/tablet
[14:34] <olli> that'll get you to the app scope
[14:35] <olli> and you can switch to another app from there
[14:35] <chrisccoulson> olli, it doesn't do anything here
[14:36] <bregma> chrisccoulson, are yuo using a mouse or a trackpad?  Edge swipes are impossible with a track pad.
[14:37] <bregma> well, difficult
[14:37] <chrisccoulson> bregma, yeah, i've tried a mouse too
[14:37] <bregma> I have separate buttons on mine, so I can get edge swipes to work using two hands, but my other machine has a clickpad and it's nigh-on impossible
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> in fact, i wonder if this has just frozen
[14:38] <chrisccoulson> i don't even get the odd random character on the terminal like i did before
[14:38] <bregma> that sounds ominous
[14:38] <bregma> can you pull down indicators?
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> no
[14:39] <bregma> hashtag sadface
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> i just killed the terminal app, and the screen hasn't updated
[14:39] <chrisccoulson> so it seems pretty dead
[14:39] <bregma> that sounds like the shell is hung
[14:39] <bregma> if you can;t switch to a VT, you'll want to reboot
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> i can switch to a VT. i killed the user init, which seems to have done the trick
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> although, it's left most processes running
[14:40] <chrisccoulson> i think i'm going to need to reboot :/
[14:41] <Laney> you might be able to loginctl kill-session
[14:41] <bregma> or service lightdm restart
[14:42] <tedg> chrisccoulson, If you send sigterm to Upstart it'll bring down all it's children and shutdown.
[14:43] <bregma> it appears there are many ways to skin a cat
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> ok, i think we have success
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> oh, maybe not
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> i can reproduce the crash i was looking for, and can now switch back to the terminal (the swipe seems to work now i've restarted)
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> but i can no longer get keyboard input in the terminal to debug it
[14:55] <bregma> hey tedg I'm trying to run Qt Creator in my Unity 8 Desktop Preview session but it apparent fails because its subprocesses are not allowed to connect or something, what's the best approach to analysing that problem
[14:55] <bregma> ?
[14:55] <pmcgowan> bregma, how can that work?
[14:56] <tedg> bregma, Uhm, I'm not sure analysis is needed. Fixing is :-)
[14:56] <pmcgowan> wow
[14:56] <tedg> bregma, We need to get cgroups working for apps and all that contained. And then for QtCreator they really need to use Mir trusted sessions, but those don't really exist yet.
[14:57] <tedg> It's a manpower issue really.
[14:57] <bregma> well, it starts OK but you can't do much yet
[14:58] <tedg> bregma, So the solution is convince management we need to work on all the pieces there :-)
[14:58] <tedg> I can map it out, but it's a non-trivial amount of work.
[14:59] <bregma> tedg, can you map it out and send me the map, so we can at least see the lay of the land over the next cycles?
[14:59]  * bregma wonders how well emacs will run under unity 8....
[15:00] <tedg> bregma, Uhm, sure. I think the big question early on is whether we're going to do the work to get cgroups working under Upstart or wait until we move to systemd for that.
[15:00] <tedg> I figured we'd have that discussion in Malta.
[15:01] <tedg> The trusted session stuff is ongoing, it's needed for lots of things. Online accounts and Pay just to mention two.
[15:01] <bregma> tedg, yes, discuss it there but we need to plan an agenda before we arrive
[15:01] <tedg> Getting QtCreator to use it is a larger question, and something I have less visibility into.
[15:02] <tedg> bregma, Well, I think it depends a lot one which of the "systemd now" vs. "systemd later" camps wins.
[15:02] <bregma> well, I have a fullscreen green screen terminal, vim, and the autotools so I'm good to use Unity 8 full time as my development environment but the weaker among you will have to wait for an IDE or whatever it is kids use these days
[15:02] <tedg> If we're doing systemd in the short term, clearly that's the right choice. But I'm not clear on what the timeline is there yet.
[15:03] <bregma> tedg, I just want to know how many ducks I have before trying to put them all in a row
[15:04] <Laney> mlankhorst: did you fix that entry level bug? :P
[15:05] <mlankhorst> Laney: nope, but I did get nouveau to spew some useful debugfs info now
[15:08] <tedg> bregma, I think those are the three basic rocks. Of course there are details within them.
[15:57] <mlankhorst> Laney: fun part of that bug: every time I try it I get a different type of crash :(
[16:04] <mlankhorst> but this might be nvc0 screwiness, do you encounter the same crash every time you try it?
[16:05] <Laney> Rather not crash my system right now :(
[16:06] <mlankhorst> tomorrow's fine too, just ping me please ;P
[16:06] <WIlli-Smith> Hi guys, I need your help, how can I edit welcome message in terminal (Ctrl+Alt+F1), Is there any file to edit? Thanks
[16:07] <mlankhorst> afk, grabbing some food
[16:37] <kenvandine> Laney, have you see bug 1309015 ?  i'm wondering if your fix for bug 1306569 might have exposed this
[16:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1309015 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Settings crashed on updates page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1309015
[16:37] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1306569 in ubuntu-system-settings (Ubuntu) "Can't update clicks from store with u-s-s #287 on mako" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1306569
[16:38] <kenvandine> Laney, i think it crashes when that signal should be getting emitted
[16:38] <kenvandine> of course getting a retrace would be useful
[16:38] <Laney> kenvandine: I saw it come in but haven't looked at it
[16:38] <Laney> gatox: can you look?
[16:38] <Laney> kenvandine: I don't really know the code there
[16:39] <kenvandine> understand
[16:39] <kenvandine> i'm just suspecting the previous bug was keeping us from hitting this crasher
[16:39] <kenvandine> so fixing that might have uncovered that
[16:39] <Laney> likely, click updates were quite nonfunctional before
[16:39] <kenvandine> indeed
[16:41] <Laney> kenvandine: maybe retrace it and assign it to gatox
[16:42] <Laney> if you are able
[16:42] <gatox> Laney, does this happen on the desktop too?
[16:42] <kenvandine> sure
[16:43] <gatox> Laney, my problem is that in the desktop i can only test it using a mock server.. i don't have a device
[16:43] <Laney> I don't know how to meaningfully run the updates panel on the desktop
[16:43] <kenvandine> i started to look at it, but not familiar with that code at all
[16:43] <kenvandine> gatox, i hit it when i think the popover should have been fired
[16:44] <kenvandine> gatox, i think it might happen when there are both click updates and system updates
[16:44] <kenvandine> and it auto downloads the system update
[16:44] <Trevinho> Laney: we've some important fixes to land which are ready since some days... I would have loved to do an SRU on day-0 (today), but it seems not doable, so for when can we prepare the first one?
[16:44] <Trevinho> seb128: also ^
[16:45] <gatox> kenvandine, i'll take a look at the code, but the auto download and some other things can not be properly reproduce on desktop
[16:45] <Laney> Trevinho: you can upload it whenever and it'll get reviewed whenever ;-)
[16:45] <kenvandine> gatox, yeah... not easy to confirm a fix
[16:45] <Laney> Probably Tuesday at the earliest now
[16:45] <Laney> make sure you have a proper SRU bug attached to it
[16:45] <Laney> gatox: you should get hold of a device if you can
[16:45] <Laney> speak to thostr
[16:45] <Trevinho> Laney: yes, what's the plan I mean? We prepare SRU builds on CI-train as always?
[16:46] <Laney> I don't know how that works
[16:46] <Laney> maybe a CI train person can tell you
[16:46] <Trevinho> ok
[16:47] <Trevinho> Laney: this is another quite high btw https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1308850 (with the classic one-liner fix)
[16:47] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1308850 in Unity "Dash is visible on top of the lockscreen after screen monitor auto locks" [High,In progress]
[16:47] <Laney> Maybe some SRU team people will be around tomorrow or so to help with processing stuff
[16:47] <gatox> Laney, i already did, but i don't think that is going to be happen for now
[16:47] <Laney> the release team kind of hands over to them after the thing is out
[16:48] <Laney> there's overlap in personnel, of course
[16:48] <didrocks> Laney: if you review the scope click in unapproved (just to not have it laying there for weeks) I'll answer to Trevinho! Deal? :p
[16:48]  * didrocks starts a black trade market
[16:49] <Trevinho> ahah ;D
[16:49]  * Laney runs
[16:49] <didrocks> Laney: not fast enough, caught you! :)
[16:49] <didrocks> Trevinho: joke apart, just do as usual, but ensure you have bug fixes only and attach a SRU bug to it
[16:49] <didrocks> Trevinho: I would advise to not diverge your branches until you introduce the first feature which will go to U
[16:50] <didrocks> (we will ensure things going to trusty-updates will be copied of u)
[16:50] <didrocks> and the train is looking at trusty-updates as the final destination
[16:50] <didrocks> making sense?
[16:54] <Trevinho> didrocks: yes, we actually prefer not to use a different branch from trunk for the next weeks since we mostly have bug-fix only things
[16:54] <Trevinho> didrocks: also if they won't be all 1-line fixes, I tell you :P
[16:55] <Trevinho> didrocks: but the LTS deserves them
[16:56] <didrocks> Trevinho: only fixes ;)
[16:57] <Trevinho> didrocks: fixes they are... :)
[16:57] <seb128> Trevinho, you can land a SRU whenever you get it ready
[16:57] <seb128> not sure when it's going to be reviewed/approved in the queue then
[16:59] <Trevinho> seb128: ok, but now that we've the CI-train, do we need to prepare the packages on the PPA, then request the SRU with them and when approved we can upload it?
[16:59] <Trevinho> seb128: or what? As before we had a different way to deploy stuff and distro was taking care of the upload as well
[17:01] <Laney> The train can upload the SRU, that's what didrocks just said
[17:01] <Laney> so just do it as new-normal
[17:02] <bregma> Trevinho, uploads are automatic but the SRUs will still need review in the queue before it can migrate out of the -proposed pocket
[17:02] <bregma> as I understand it
[17:02] <Trevinho> bregma: yeah, that's the same I got
[17:03] <Laney> yep
[17:03] <Laney> they often don't have the fastest turnaround so there might be increased silo pressure ...
[17:03] <Laney> we'll see
[17:03] <bregma> once we shift aways from landing everything in trunk, it gets murkier
[17:03] <didrocks> Laney: I can do the double copy trick
[17:03] <didrocks> let's see how it goes
[17:04] <Laney> these updates sound important enough to be done quickly anyway
[17:04] <didrocks> yeah
[17:04] <bregma> either we'd need to do old-fasioned dput upploads or ci-train would need to evolve
[17:04] <Laney> ci bullet train
[17:04] <bregma> one bullet
[17:04] <Laney> nah, ci tgv
[17:04] <Trevinho> lol
[17:04] <Laney> then i'd get to hear their cool jingle every day
[17:06] <didrocks> ta ta' TA
[17:21] <ogra_> didrocks, can you record that ? i want that as my alarm sound for the landing meeting :)
[17:22] <didrocks> ogra_: ahah, sure!
[18:27] <davmor2> mvo_: oh I like apt list I'll keep that :)
[18:28] <mvo_> davmor2: :) great to hear
[18:28] <mvo_> davmor2: I hope I can smugle in tab completion via a SRU for apt and its new commands
[18:29] <davmor2> mvo_: let me file a bug to say it's missing then it's not a feature it's a bug fix right :D
[18:29] <mvo_> davmor2: haha, true!
[18:33] <davmor2> mvo_: pressie https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/1309141
[18:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1309141 in apt (Ubuntu) "Apt is missing tab complete on things like list search etc" [Undecided,New]
[18:35] <mvo_> davmor2: very nice, thank you
[19:17] <sarnold> Sweetshark: the trusty release notes say libreoffice now has "document search for left-to-right languages " -- should that be right-to-left? searching in ltr languages seems like something that would have worked two decades ago :)
[21:33] <Laney> haha! seb128 did one more upload than me this cycle
[21:34] <stgraber> Laney: where are the stats again? I thought I had bookmarked that one. (expecting to be pretty far behind this cycle... didn't upload much)
[21:34] <Laney> oh I was querying UDD
[21:35] <stgraber> ah ok, I remember someone had a fancy page with graphs at one point
[21:35] <Laney> but you're right, there are some graphs
[21:35] <Laney> tumbleweed made it
[21:36] <Laney> stgraber: http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~stefanor/ubuntu-activity/
[21:37] <stgraber> that's the one
[21:38] <Laney> xnox uploaded a lot
[21:39] <stgraber> oh yeah, he probably should be top uploader or something considering he's twice in the top10 :)
[21:39] <Laney> indeed
[21:39] <sarnold> :)
[21:39] <xnox> =) stgraber, Laney, and all of us have a few things in the "daily release" slice of the pie as well.
[21:40] <Laney> yeah that's harder to get data out of
[21:40] <stgraber> xnox: that's what you get for changing your name ;)
[21:40] <xnox> stgraber: i know. =) i've tried bribing stefanor, but alas he didn't twiddle the script for the name change.
[21:42] <xnox> mvo is quite high up, given how little time he invested =)
[21:43] <sarnold> hunh, which dialog box did I just interact with?
[21:43] <Laney> I suck at sql
[21:43] <Laney> was trying to make a combined xnox report but I can't get the results to merge
[21:43] <sarnold> it popped up and stole focus just as I hit <enter> in irc...
[21:44] <Laney> erk
[21:44] <Laney> ah there, I had group by wrong
[21:45] <Laney> http://udd.debian.org/~laney/xnox.txt
[21:46] <xnox> Laney: nice =)
[21:48] <sarnold> .. now if only we could get Dimitri and Dmitrijs to work together, just imagine what we could do..
[22:24] <Sweetshark> sarnold: thanks, fixed
[22:25] <sarnold> Sweetshark: thanks :)