[00:17] <mhall119> rickspencer3: ^^ did you find a solution to that?
[00:49] <a_muva__> Is it me, or browser started to render pages strangely? I think the old way was much better.
[01:14] <rickspencer3> mhall119, yes, I had to delete and readd my U1 account
[01:23] <mhall119> doflah: ^^
[01:24] <doflah> is there a known cause or is it worth me debugging a little bit?
[01:25] <mhall119> don't know that much, sorry
[01:26] <rickspencer3> doflah, there is a known cause, and I believe it is fixed or the fix is in flight
[01:26] <rickspencer3> aiui there is a line of code that crashes when there is not a valid U1 account rather than doing something sensible
[01:27] <doflah> oh, hey, that works
[01:27] <doflah> thanks!
[01:27] <rickspencer3> doflah, no worries :)
[02:30] <guyWhoNeedsHelpW> hello?
[02:32] <nhaines> !question
[02:36] <Aki-Thinkpad> Can I do this without an id: ?
[02:36] <Aki-Thinkpad> 					Button{id: zero; width: 40; text: "0"; onClicked: textArea.insert(0, zero.text) }
[02:46] <Aki-Thinkpad> nevermind; this.text...
[02:46] <Aki-Thinkpad> I thought I tried that :P
[03:56] <smulverine> Hi all.  If I bought a Meizu MX3 now, would it be possible to install an image of Ubuntu at a later stage?
[04:05] <nhaines> smulverine: nobody knows.
[04:08] <Aki-Thinkpad> smulverine, anything is "Possible"
[04:09] <smulverine> Aki-Thinkpad: thanks, but thing is: my current phone is falling to bits.
[04:10] <Aki-Thinkpad> smulverine, have you tried yelling at it?
[04:10] <smulverine> Aki-Thinkpad: yeah sure :-)
[04:10] <Aki-Thinkpad> and it isn't listening?
[04:10] <Aki-Thinkpad> shucks
[04:11] <Aki-Thinkpad> besides spitting on it, I don't know what else you could try
[04:11] <smulverine> For some reason it doesn't seem to make any difference
[04:11] <Aki-Thinkpad> what is this world coming too?
[04:11] <Aki-Thinkpad> Anyways, i would suggest trying openmoko
[04:11] <smulverine> Anyway, I'm in the market for a new phone
[04:11] <Aki-Thinkpad> Egg shaped phones are the future
[04:12] <smulverine> Scrambled or fried?
[04:13] <Aki-Thinkpad> devilled
[04:13] <smulverine> The future looks awesome
[04:13] <Aki-Thinkpad> I hear they will be able to make phonecalls eventually
[04:14] <Aki-Thinkpad> ubuntu-touch will not be able to compete
[04:14] <smulverine> Who in his right mind wants to make phonecalls?
[04:17] <Aki-Thinkpad> ikr?
[04:17] <RAOF> smulverine: There's no guarantee that the hardware in the phone released with Ubuntu Touch will be identical to the current MX3; indeed, I seem to recall people saying that the demo models looked like a new revision?
[04:19] <Aki-Thinkpad> RAOF, Well Canonical has its own design... I would imagine they are still trying to pitch it to people
[04:23] <smulverine> RAOF: specs of that device really look okay.   I can get one here with 32G for about 3000 HKD, which is tempting.
[04:23] <smulverine> Since I want to get an Ubuntu phone at some stage anyway
[04:25] <smulverine> But it would be silly to get an MX3 and not being able to re-flash it to Ubuntu Touch when it is more or less ready for market
[04:26] <RAOF> Yes; and you can't guarantee that the MX3 you buy now will have the same hardware as the MX3 you will later be able to buy with Ubuntu Touch installed, so if you buy one now there's no guarantee it'll be Touchable (barring community ports)
[04:26] <smulverine> I see.  Thanks :-)   Guess I'm just gonna get a cheap POS in the meantime then.
[05:17] <echoe> Is a new build coming out today?
[05:18] <echoe> Launch time!!
[06:16] <iahmad> trying to flash latest stable ( build 101) but  ubuntu-device-flash --wipe --bootstrap picks up the build 10, does any one know what I am missing? Until yesterday it was picking up the right build.
[06:20] <iahmad> ah it seems stable channel on server contains build 10 as the latest.
[06:21] <RAOF> You probably want the trusty channel?
[06:25] <iahmad> RAOF, No, I am looking to flash stable (saucy) image to test upgrade to devel (trusty)
[06:26] <RAOF> Oh.
[06:26]  * RAOF wonders if we actually test that :)
[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <echoe> i wonder if update is working
[07:17] <nhaines> dholbach: ready for a new release?  :)
[07:20] <dholbach> hey nhaines - yeah :-D
[07:23] <nhaines> I'm excited for the new Ubuntu website.  I assume the daily images from yesterday are probably unchanged.  :D
[07:23] <nhaines> But I do have virtual servers that will be very nice with 14.04 images.  :)
[07:33] <vars> Hello
[07:33] <nhaines> vars: hello!
[07:33] <vars> Great thanks nhaines
[07:34] <vars> I have a question about the ubuntu phone or touch
[07:34] <nhaines> !question
[07:34] <vars> When it will be released like funcional?
[07:34] <nhaines> vars: it's been out since October 13.10.
[07:35] <nhaines> Phones will be available for sale online this year.  Probably during Autumn.
[07:35] <vars> That's is the answer to the question.  Thanks
[07:36] <vars>  I can't wait!
[07:36] <nhaines> It's looking pretty good.  :)
[07:37] <vars> Indeed, apple will get kicked hehe because this is way more powerful than theirs
[07:38] <nhaines> It will take a few more apps to get to that point, but it is very, very promising.
[07:39] <vars> I saw somewhere that two Chinese companies are working on the phones
[07:41] <nhaines> Meizu is.  The other company we know about, BQ, is Spanish.
[07:42] <vars> Oh i thought BQ were Chinese as well. Meizu looks really promising
[07:45] <vars> It's a shame that most of the phones are  being ported the cellular radio is not working except for the nexus line 4 7 and galaxy.  I was hoping to take advantage of my gt-i9300
[07:47] <vars> Anyway I out for now 4am and tomorrow is other day to work and keep it up.  Thanks for the info,  really appreciate it
[08:23] <Aki-Thinkpad> hey will ubuntu touch be using f2fs by any chance?
[08:30] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:32] <nhaines> davmor2: morning!
[08:32] <nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: Ubuntu uses ext4 on phones I believe.
[08:38] <Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, doesnt surprise me. ext4 has been surprisingly good
[08:43] <nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: it's a good start.  :)
[08:46] <Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, Doesn't android use fat32 or something?
[08:46] <nhaines> Aki-Thinkpad: only for external SD cards.
[08:47] <Aki-Thinkpad> nhaines, oh yah that's right. of course :P
[09:44] <t1mp> I cannot flash my device anymore
[09:45] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, try yelling at it
[09:45] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, did you brick it?
[09:45] <t1mp> I'm getting this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/7266842/
[09:45] <t1mp> Aki-Thinkpad: no I didn't. I see the google logo all the time on the screen, and I can adb into the device
[09:45] <t1mp> I can reboot it, but while rebooting and after, the google logo stays
[09:45] <t1mp> it is a mako device
[09:46] <Aki-Thinkpad> what do you mean, the google logo stays?
[09:46] <t1mp> Aki-Thinkpad: when you boot the device normally for a short time it shows a google logo
[09:46] <t1mp> that's what it always shows now
[09:46] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, can you get to the bootloader?
[09:47] <t1mp> whois Aki-Thinkpad
[09:47] <Aki-Thinkpad> lol
[09:47] <t1mp> heh
[09:47] <t1mp> :)
[09:47] <t1mp> let me try
[09:48] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, ah
[09:50] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, i am far from expert, but it this just seems like a case of missing fileage
[09:50] <t1mp> nope, I cannot get into the bootloader
[09:51] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, you were able to before?
[09:51] <ogra_> t1mp, how about you do what it asks for ;)
[09:51] <ogra_> (open another terminal and "adb reboot bootloader")
[09:52] <t1mp> ogra_: you make it sound so easy :)
[09:52] <ogra_> haha
[09:52] <t1mp> thanks, that works. re-flashing now :)
[09:53] <Aki-Thinkpad> t1mp, I remember when I first gave my hand at all this business... Decided waiting for BQ and Meizu was better :P
[10:00] <tsdgeos> popey: ping
[10:01] <popey> tsdgeos: yo
[10:01] <tsdgeos> popey: that qmlscene crash you have? how do i reproduce it?
[10:01] <popey> which?
[10:02] <popey> the one with the bar?
[10:02] <tsdgeos> popey: the one in ubuntu-calendar-app
[10:02] <popey> sorry, are we talking about a bug?
[10:03] <popey> i have a lot of crashes around the place, dunno which one you mean ☻
[10:03] <tsdgeos> popey: https://code.launchpad.net/~pkunal-parmar/ubuntu-calendar-app/CalManagement/+merge/213355
[10:04] <tsdgeos> popey: we are talking about an email i've been cc'ed to
[10:05] <popey> ah that one.
[10:05] <popey> sorry, sent that mail at 2am
[10:05] <popey> so the fail is happening on jenkins infra.
[10:06] <popey> 91.189.93.70:8080/job/generic-mediumtests-trusty/2150/testReport/calendar_app.tests.test_yearview/TestYearView/test_selecting_a_month_switch_to_month_view_with_mouse_/
[10:06] <popey> if you follow the "failed" links from the bottom of that merge
[10:06] <tsdgeos> ok, yes, clicking on week crashes
[10:06]  * tsdgeos has a huge dejavu
[10:06] <popey> The "looks like qmlscene crashed" was a comment from fginther last night
[10:06] <popey> heh
[10:06] <tsdgeos> i already fixed this
[10:07] <popey> jono mentioned on his device he had the app crash clicking week view too
[10:07] <popey> but I couldn't reproduce it on my device
[10:07] <tsdgeos> crashes on desktop
[10:07] <popey> and he didnt mention it again.. seems intermittent
[10:07] <popey> right, those AP tests are on desktop.
[10:08] <popey> and yeah, if it crashes during tests we can't land fixes, so a priority for me.
[10:08] <tsdgeos> well qmlscene crashing is bad for everyone
[10:08] <popey> Indeed.
[10:09]  * tsdgeos tries to remember what is the crash bug he fixed in ubuntu-calendar-app
[10:10] <tsdgeos> so it was https://codereview.qt-project.org/#patch,all_unified,81454,3
[10:10] <tsdgeos> let me see if we distropatched that or not
[10:11] <tsdgeos> no we have not
[10:11] <tsdgeos> that's weird
[10:11] <tsdgeos> ah yes, we do have it
[10:12] <tsdgeos> so then it's not that
[10:12] <omidh> Can I use ubuntu touch alongside with android?
[10:14] <nhaines> omidh: maybe, on a development phone.  Not on an official phone.  Which don't exist yet.
[10:49] <tsdgeos> Mirv: you there?
[10:59] <tsdgeos> popey: so it seems an upstream qtpim bug to me, my analisis brought me to do https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,83696
[10:59] <tsdgeos> let's see what upstream say
[11:01] <popey> ok
[11:12] <rickspencer3> didrocks, another promoted image?
[11:12] <rickspencer3> \o/
[11:13] <didrocks> rickspencer3: the one from yesterday? Yeah ;) we just got #302 built, which is the candidate to go to the stable channel
[11:13] <rickspencer3> nice
[11:13] <didrocks> rickspencer3: like, the image appeared 3 minutes ago :)
[11:13] <didrocks> testing the hell out of it as we speak
[11:13] <rickspencer3> wow
[11:13] <didrocks> oxide/webapps fixes + some apps crashing which get unity8 to shut down
[11:13] <rickspencer3> didrocks, if I update my tablet that is on devel-proposed I'll get it?
[11:14] <didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, please do!
[11:14] <didrocks> the more testing, the best
[11:14] <rickspencer3> ok
[11:14] <rickspencer3> here we go
[11:15] <didrocks> thanks, keep us posted if anything!
[11:15] <rickspencer3> I love how updates are so small
[11:15] <rickspencer3> image-based-updates are *so* cool
[11:15] <didrocks> indeed, way better than download 400MB ;)
[11:16] <rickspencer3> stgraber, you guys really outdid yourselves with the image-based-updates, an amazing invention
[11:17] <rickspencer3> didrocks, any particular areas you want me to look at other than web apps?
[11:18] <didrocks> rickspencer3: try to launch/close apps (click, webapps, qml/native)
[11:18] <didrocks> it's what was randomly getting unity8 to go down
[11:18]  * rickspencer3 installs g+ app
[11:18] <rickspencer3> didrocks, ok
[11:18] <didrocks> thanks ;)
[11:24] <rickspencer3> didrocks, so far I am having no issues launching apps from the apps scope and closing them, is there something I should be doing to stress it?
[11:24] <ogra_> open moar apps
[11:24] <ogra_> :)
[11:24] <didrocks> rickspencer3: what ogra told, it was pretty random ;)
[11:24] <didrocks> rickspencer3: we did the same as well with the package
[11:24] <didrocks> (and do the same as we speak)
[11:25] <rickspencer3> ogra_, like open a whole bunch of apps?
[11:25] <didrocks> nothing as of now
[11:25] <ogra_> yeah
[11:25] <didrocks> rickspencer3: well, don't hit the oom killer
[11:25] <didrocks> remember that we are not robust against it yet
[11:25] <ogra_> well, the apps do
[11:25] <rickspencer3> didrocks, don't have to remind me :)
[11:25] <didrocks> better to warn than worry :p
[11:25] <ogra_> and they should
[11:26] <ogra_> (they need to learn to restart a lot faster when they hit OOM though ... )
[11:26] <rickspencer3> didrocks, oh, I meant I've run into issue here and there when I have too many apps open
[11:26] <rickspencer3> ogra_, yeah, we have a lot of work to do with that part of the app lifecycle
[11:26] <ogra_> yep
[11:26] <ogra_> oe of the criticsl remaining bits
[11:26] <ogra_> *one
[11:27]  * ogra_ needs a typing course 
[11:27] <rickspencer3> :)
[11:27] <didrocks> ogra_: expense it! :)
[11:27]  * ogra_ is pleased to see 300+ people in #ubuntu-release-party 
[11:28] <ogra_> we surely had lots and lots more in the past, but 300 is a good amount at least ... i was worried there would be a lot less
[11:28] <rickspencer3> ogra_, didrocks I opened 7 apps
[11:28] <rickspencer3> I used the right edge to switch between them
[11:28] <rickspencer3> I closed them all
[11:28] <rickspencer3> no issues
[11:28] <rickspencer3> I ran g+ web app
[11:28] <ogra_> awesome
[11:28] <rickspencer3> I used external links
[11:28] <rickspencer3> no issues
[11:28] <didrocks> \o/
[11:29] <ogra_> yay
[11:29] <didrocks> "\o/"*302 actually ;)
[11:29]  * ogra_ loves how usable everything got this cycle 
[11:29] <rickspencer3> I can't wait for unity rotation so I can use my Nexus 7 fully
[11:29]  * didrocks didn't spot anything in a quick check of "sensible" areas :)
[11:29] <rickspencer3> side stage and all
[11:30] <didrocks> s/sensible/sensitive/
[11:30] <ogra_> now a functional pdf reader and trojita being finished are the two last blockers for me to fully switch
[11:30] <didrocks> ogra_: we have v8! use a js pdf reader ;)
[11:30] <ogra_> hmm, i coud ltry that ...
[11:30] <ogra_> or write an app :)
[11:31] <ogra_> which reminds me ...
[11:31] <rickspencer3> ogra_, in the meantime, you could use calibre to export your pdf as epub, and read it in the ebook ready
[11:31]  * ogra_ has 15 new apps to uplaod to the store today
[11:31] <ogra_> rickspencer3, except that i want some features ... like cutting off edges, night mode ... being able to block rotation
[11:31] <rickspencer3> didrocks, so, from my very limited usage of the my tablet this morning, the current devel-proposed image looks good
[11:32] <rickspencer3> ogra_, you better cracking writing that app!
[11:32] <rickspencer3> lol
[11:32] <didrocks> rickspencer3: yeah, same here, confirming what we got on #301 + installing the packages while they were getting published
[11:32] <ogra_> rickspencer3, over easter :)
[11:32] <didrocks> rickspencer3: he needs typing course first! ;)
[11:32] <rickspencer3> ogra_, lol
[11:32] <ogra_> i dont get what happened to our document viewer app
[11:32] <rickspencer3> now we need to get those scopes performance tweaks
[11:33] <ogra_> i thought it was ready and just waiting for the content-hub
[11:33] <rickspencer3> ogra_, could be
[11:33] <rickspencer3> wow, what a cycle
[11:33] <ogra_> yeah
[11:33] <didrocks> already got one scope perf tweak in #301. It's a little bit better
[11:33] <ogra_> cant wait to see 14.10 :)
[11:33] <rickspencer3> 14.04 LTS, Tablet 1.0, so much phone improvement
[11:33] <ogra_> by then it should be perfect
[11:36] <dia> is ubuntu touch not being worked on for nexus 7 anymore?
[11:36] <ogra_> dlan, for the 2013 model only
[11:36] <ogra_> (was announced 4 months ago)
[11:38] <dia> I have not even been touching linux in... months :(
[11:38] <dia> but i just bought the 2nd gen nexus 7 ;) and android is limited
[11:39] <ogra_> well, the second gen works pretty well here
[11:39] <dia> are you running with it now?
[12:08] <tordemus> bros, i saw some news about relise date of ubuntu touch on 17.04's is it lie? I'dont get it =)
[12:09]  * ogra_ is happinly using ubuntu touch here 
[12:09] <ogra_> and there will be a release today
[12:09] <tordemus> omg omg =) thanks, we're waiting  =)
[12:09] <ogra_> phones with ubuntu preinstalled will be around in the second half of the year
[12:10] <ogra_> (note that the release today is still not fully feature complete ... but it already works well as a daily driver)
[12:11] <tordemus> Nope, im mostly worrying about nexus devices =) and thanks for answer one more time!
[12:13] <mamenyaka> hi! which branch should I use for my port? is 4.4.2 only for the nexus5?
[12:13] <ogra_> no, its for all supported devices
[12:13] <mamenyaka> and do I use cm-11.0 repos wth it?
[12:14] <mamenyaka> or why is it aosp only?
[12:14] <ogra_> that branch is aosp only i think
[12:14] <mamenyaka> yes
[12:14] <ogra_> if you got a cm branch it might need extra steps to port it
[12:15] <mamenyaka> wont there be a cm based 4.4.2 branch?
[12:15] <ogra_> nope
[12:16] <mamenyaka> okay, thank you
[12:16] <ogra_> (well, not sure, probably rsalveti wants to update the old cm branch at some point in his spare time)
[12:16] <ogra_> but there are no official plans for it atm
[12:16] <mamenyaka> is there any up to date documentation on the current status?
[12:17] <mamenyaka> is the porting guide still relevant?
[12:17] <ogra_> semi relevant ...
[12:17] <ogra_> urgently needs to be updated
[12:22] <mamenyaka> looking forward to it
[12:34] <Saviq> bregma, really sorry for the indicator fail... I completely agree with you the process is/was broken
[12:38] <bregma> Saviq, all it means is we need to fix our processes in the next cycle and fail better next time
[12:38] <Saviq> bregma, indeed
[12:38] <Saviq> bregma, fwiw, fix is in silo 001 if you could verify
[12:39] <Saviq> brb
[12:39] <bregma> hopefully my internets will stay up long enough today...
[12:48] <nhaines> Who's in charge of the Ubuntu Touch section of the 14.04 LTS release notes?  I have a formatting suggstion.
[12:52] <ogra_> nhaines, perhaps bregma knows
[12:53] <nhaines> bregma: in the "What's new?" section, "Tablet and Phone form factors supported" is bold and concatenated with the feature blurb, but it should probably be regular, all caps, and on its own line.
[12:53] <nhaines> ogra_: well so much for that, eh? :)
[12:54] <ogra_> :)
[12:54] <nhaines> I can happily fix it, but don't want to step on toes while everyone's rushing about.
[12:54] <popey> nhaines: i dont think its a problem fixing formatting issues
[12:55] <ogra_> nhaines, make sure to coordinate in #ubuntu-release, then you should be fine
[12:57] <nhaines> Thanks guys.  All fixed now.
[12:59] <nhaines> It was a markup issue anyway, so I just swapped some ''s and ='s and all set.  :)
[13:04] <mamenyaka> if I have an error that says: linux/msm_mdp.h: no such file or dir, but I looked and there is a file in the kernel includes; what should I do?
[13:09] <popey> tsdgeos: could you pop in #ubuntu-touch-meeting pls?
[13:32] <bregma> Saviq, despite the conspiracy of my internet provider, I have verified your fix
[13:32] <Saviq> bregma, great, it's transitioning to release pocket already I believe
[13:32] <bregma> Saviq, I think we need to make it a thing this cycle to try to merge the updastart jobs for desktop and phablet maybe
[13:32] <Saviq> bregma, definitely
[13:33] <Saviq> bregma, the sessions, too, really
[13:33] <Saviq> bregma, there should be no diff between desktop and phone unity8 on Mir sessions
[13:33] <Saviq> ideally, that is
[13:33] <bregma> there's a lot of cruft required for the desktop still, but that is a wrinkle that needs to be ironed out
[13:34] <bregma> much of it to do with autodetection of devices or back ends
[14:13] <rickspencer3> pmcgowan, so, my phone is "frozen"
[14:13] <rickspencer3> I adb shelled in and ran top
[14:13] <rickspencer3> dialer app is > 100% cpu utilization
[14:13] <ogra_> ans see apport :)
[14:13] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[14:13] <ogra_> oh
[14:13] <rickspencer3> ogra_, not apport this time :)
[14:13] <rickspencer3> at least not yet :)
[14:13] <ogra_> yeah, it might take over
[14:14] <rickspencer3> ogra_, should I just reboot, or is there something I can do to help debug?
[14:14] <rickspencer3> I need to run authenticator so I can get into my email :)
[14:15] <ogra_> i guess just reboot and see if it happens again
[14:15] <rickspencer3> k
[14:15] <rickspencer3> I hope that wasn't 'cause I was receiving a call
[14:16]  * ogra_ too
[14:20] <rickspencer3> ogra_, could it be because I received a call while my screen was blanked?
[14:21] <rickspencer3> (though I have received other calls and texts without problem recently)
[14:21] <ogra_> rickspencer3, i think that works because it forcefully wakes up the screen
[14:21] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[14:24] <rsalveti> guess it'd be nice to get the output of strace and gdb bt when you get that 100% loop consumption
[14:24] <rsalveti> otherwise hard to tell what is wrong, if we don't have a crash file
[14:31] <popey> tsdgeos: my qtpim build barfed but looks like it built okay? https://launchpad.net/~popey/+archive/qtpim/+build/5916407
[14:32] <ogra_> rsalveti, btw, my music plays on if i blank the screen and play from a webapp ... i dont think it should, should it ?
[14:32] <tsdgeos> popey: i'm far from a launchpad expert tbh :D
[14:32] <popey> heh
[14:33] <popey> Welcome to my world.
[14:34] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:35] <tsdgeos> popey: but yes it seems it built fine, no idea where one can find the debs thought
[14:36] <popey> oh, failed to upload
[14:36] <popey> not failed to build
[14:36] <tsdgeos> yeah
[14:36] <popey> so probably release releated stuff ate bandwidth or some other handwavy reason
[14:36] <rsalveti> ogra_: it shouldn't
[14:36] <rsalveti> ogra_: which website?
[14:36] <popey> I wont chase that, I'll wait till the release is out of the way and retry, thanks
[14:37] <ogra_> rsalveti, install laut.fm ... tap play .. let the screen suspend ... it stutters a bit but plays on
[14:37] <ogra_> rsalveti, i assume the suid root processes somehow circumvent the block
[14:37] <rsalveti> maybe the sigstop is not getting to the app
[14:37] <rsalveti> which is kind of a big issue
[14:37] <ogra_> it gets to the app but not the renderer i guess
[14:38] <ogra_> jdstrand, chrisccoulson ^^^
[14:40] <olli> popey, nik90 thx for your help yday!
[14:40] <popey> np
[14:40] <olli> +whoever else helped
[14:41] <nik90> olli: np thnx for the MPs
[14:41] <olli> nik90, thx for giving me a bzr crash course ;)
[14:41] <nik90> olli: hehe
[14:42] <chrisccoulson> ogra_, it works fine as long as the SIGSTOP is sent to the process group
[14:42] <ogra_> chright, thats not working
[14:54] <Saviq> bregma, I was wondering... we have respawn in the unity8 jobs, what's the plan for stopping the session? should we just "initctl stop" on exit?
[14:54]  * Saviq would rather have a way to say "initctl no-respawn"
[14:54] <Saviq> 'cause stop would send SIGTERM to us straight away
[14:56] <bregma> Saviq, there's work going on to get proper session management in using, I dunno, upstart or logind or something appropriate (not my area of expertise)
[14:56] <Laney> I think you can make respawn happening with a 'stop on ...' condition
[14:56] <Laney> doesn't seem ideal though
[14:56] <Saviq> bregma, kk
[14:56] <Laney> respawn *stop* happening
[14:57] <Laney> a respawn non-clean-exit-only would be nice
[14:57] <ogra_> you could use a second job for that
[14:58] <Laney> If you're doing hacks, then 'stop on exit-unity8' and emit that when cleanly shutdown should work
[14:58] <Laney> just saying, maybe upstart could support this properly
[14:59] <ogra_> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#run-a-job-only-if-one-job-succeeds-and-another-fails
[14:59] <ogra_> something knitted around that
[15:00] <Laney> why
[15:00] <ogra_> dunno, just saying there are capablilities to do it from a second job if respawn fails
[15:01] <Laney> I was giving the actual way to stop respawn respawning
[15:01] <omkar_> is ubuntu-touch 14.04 is going to released today ?
[15:01] <Laney> i.e. make 'stop on' become satisfied
[15:02] <ogra_> omkar_, yes
[15:06] <omkar_> my device is not supported for ubuntu touch but fulfills hardware specification .. so how can I install ubuntu touch in my device (my device : Celkon ML5)
[15:07] <ogra_> you would have to do a port ... for that you need the android sources and some knowledge
[15:08] <omkar_> where can I get that information ?
[15:20] <rsalveti> ogra_: hm, laut.fm here is just blank for me
[15:20] <ogra_> oh ?
[15:21] <rsalveti> desktop is fine though
[15:21] <ogra_> i used it today on all three devices with 302
[15:21] <rsalveti> let me reboot this thing
[15:21] <rsalveti> ogra_: tried via browser or webapp?
[15:22] <ogra_> webapp
[15:22] <ogra_> i updated all my apps (lautfm is one) last night and tested them on todays latest image
[15:22] <rsalveti> right, was opening the website using the browser directly
[15:22] <ogra_> ah
[15:23] <ogra_> i didnt try that, but its probably behaving the same
[15:23] <rsalveti> the store search is kind of bad
[15:23] <rsalveti> can't find anything with 'lau'
[15:23] <rsalveti> but laut works
[15:23] <ogra_> lol
[15:24] <ogra_> probably its just slow
[15:24] <rsalveti> ogra_: working now, there's some weird german voice here
[15:24] <ogra_> yeah, they plkay one ad before the music stream starts
[15:24] <ogra_> now let it blank
[15:25] <mhr3> mandel, ping?
[15:25] <rsalveti> ogra_: lol, interesting bug
[15:25] <rsalveti> ogra_: it works fine if you get back to the app lens
[15:25] <rsalveti> it stops after a few seconds
[15:25] <ogra_> stutters a bit and then it plays on in chunks
[15:25] <rsalveti> but if you press power when it's in foreground, it keeps working
[15:25] <ogra_> yeah
[15:25] <ogra_> we *definitely* need to look into lifecycle again :)
[15:25] <rsalveti> so it might be a bug in our app life cycle here
[15:26] <ogra_> and think about cgroups too
[15:26] <rsalveti> right, but I don't think we're sending sigstop to the foreground app
[15:26] <rsalveti> we're just trying to suspend
[15:26] <rsalveti> that's why the audio is kind of broken
[15:26] <ogra_> oh, lol
[15:26] <ogra_> yeah
[15:26]  * ogra_ didnt think about that ... 
[15:27] <rsalveti> so if you have someone holding a suspend blocker or such, it'll work just fine
[15:27] <rsalveti> as long you're not sending it to the background
[15:27] <ogra_> well, kind of
[15:27] <davmor2> ogra_: I blame you entirely for all of this :D
[15:27] <ogra_> it is very stuttery
[15:27] <rsalveti> but that's because it's trying to suspend
[15:27] <rsalveti> let me hold a suspend blocker
[15:27] <ogra_> davmor2, yeah, i'll take the blame as long as i can play music while the screen is off :)
[15:28] <rsalveti> ogra_: yeah, open a shell, and then run powerd-cli active
[15:28] <rsalveti> ogra_: and try suspending the device, the audio will be fine
[15:28] <ogra_> yeah
[15:29] <davmor2> ogra_: media-hub should make it all better once the qt eventloop is fixed and webapps integrate with media-hub
[15:29] <ogra_> davmor2, sadly not for webapps
[15:29] <ogra_> (they will integrate eventually with it ... but thats still a long way)
[15:32] <davmor2> ogra_: and then it will be better till then disable sleep and leave you device plugged in :)
[15:33] <ogra_> :)
[16:05] <jdstrand> so, I'm trying to update to r299 on mako via system settings, but keep coming to a signature error
[16:05] <jdstrand> this was working well for a long time, but recently I used the command line to change channels to devel-proposed and then again back to devel
[16:06] <jdstrand> both of those flashes went fine, but it seems like I haven't been able to update via System Settings since then. it might be unrelated
[16:06] <ogra_> jdstrand, thats a barry thing i guess
[16:07] <jdstrand> hmm, and he isn't in here
[16:07] <jdstrand> oh weird, I changed to wifi and now it worked
[16:07] <jdstrand> ok, need some more data befre I bug anyone
[16:09] <ogra_> oh yeah, check the setting
[16:12] <olli> Saviq, do you have an update on the logout bug for U8/preview?
[16:21] <Joe_Schmo> Whats up guys?
[16:49] <rymate1234> what's the device requirements for ubuntu touch?
[16:50] <rymate1234> as in hardware, not phone model
[16:51] <Saviq> olli, we've got the branches, will review early tomorrow and land tomorrow I hope
[16:53] <olli> Saviq, th
[16:53] <olli> x
[16:56] <echoe> my version is 250 but it isn't saying that I have an update, do I need to reflash my phone to get the latest one?
[16:56] <ogra_> echoe, what device
[16:57] <echoe> nexus 4
[16:57] <ogra_> and what channel do you use ?
[16:57] <ogra_> devel should be on 302 now
[16:57] <echoe> i was using the standard one in the ubuntu main page install :P is it not updated yet?
[16:57] <ogra_> (as is devel-proposed ... and the same image will get soon released to the stable channel)
[16:58] <ogra_> it is, your system-settings app should show it
[17:01] <echoe> it doesn't
[17:02] <echoe> weird.
[17:02] <Farsch> I discovered Ubuntu Touch just in the last 5 mins.
[17:03] <Farsch> Can it work on every Android device?
[17:03] <Farsch> The Ubuntu.com website doesn't mention any details at all.
[17:04] <lotuspsychje> Farsch: check topic for the devices supported
[17:04] <Farsch> Ok.
[17:11] <Farsch> lotuspsychje: This URL answers my question: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[17:11] <Farsch> lotuspsychje: It's not in the topic.
[17:11] <Farsch> "B&N Nook Tablet"
[17:11] <Farsch> My friend!
[17:13] <Farsch> E-paper PC!
[17:13] <Farsch> :D
[17:22] <genii> Hi, any known issues with 302 from ubuntu-touch/trusty on mako? I'm running ubuntu-device-flash right now
[17:22] <ogra_> genii, nothing earth shattering ... there are some ... they will be in the relase notes (302 will be 14.04)
[17:23] <ogra_> (14.04 stable that is)
[17:26] <genii> ogra_: Thanks, reading now :)
[17:27] <genii> ogra_: Actually, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes only has 13.10 release notes
[17:28] <ogra_> genii, yep, not released yet ... should happen soon
[17:28]  * genii makes more coffee and waits
[17:41] <niemeyer> Hey
[17:41] <niemeyer> Does anyone have a pointer towards where the --desktop_file_hint magic is implemented?
[17:42] <niemeyer> I was expecting it to be provided through the QApplication arguments, but that's not working
[17:43] <stgraber> ogra_: my mako just upgraded from saucy to trusty on the stable channel, so looks like we're good
[17:44] <ogra_> yay \o/
[17:44] <ogra_> stgraber, thanks for everything !
[17:48] <pmcgowan> tedg, see niemeyer query ^^
[17:49] <tedg> niemeyer, That's being removed…
[17:49] <niemeyer> pmcgowan: Thanks
[17:49] <niemeyer> tedg: Oh
[17:49] <tedg> niemeyer, as far as parsing it, that was done in unity-mir
[17:49] <tedg> But it was mostly for legacy SF support
[17:49] <niemeyer> tedg: How will it work instead?
[17:50] <tedg> niemeyer, How will what work?
[17:50] <niemeyer> tedg: I suppose the .desktop path was useful somehow?
[17:51] <tedg> niemeyer, Well we are identifying applications by appid. We were getting that out of the exec by parsing the command line, but that's a hack as apps can adjust their own cmdline.
[17:51] <tedg> niemeyer, No we start the application by appid, so we have it all the way through and give that to unity-mir to authorize surfaces for the app.
[17:51] <tedg> now
[17:52] <niemeyer> tedg: Ah, that's much nicer indeed
[17:52] <niemeyer> tedg: Assuming we don't have an --app_id_hint parameter :-)
[17:52] <tedg> Heh, no, we don't :-)
[17:53] <niemeyer> APP_ID env, right?
[17:53] <tedg> That exists because upstart sets it, but it's not used by Mir.
[17:53] <Farsch> "The PPA has the tools and dependencies to support Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy."
[17:53] <tedg> I think some of the SDK libs also use it.
[17:53] <Farsch> What is PPA? What is Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy? Please use understandable language in manuals. It's not like every educated person knows what Precise, Quantal, Raring and Saucy are.
[17:54] <niemeyer> tedg: How does it figure the app id then?
[17:54] <tedg> niemeyer, How does what figure out the app id?
 niemeyer, No we start the application by appid,
[17:55] <niemeyer> tedg: Whoever is "we" in that sentence
[17:55] <tedg> Well, we is a bunch of different things there.
[17:55] <tedg> If it's URL dispatcher it's figured out by registering the URL format. That registration is by app id.
[17:56] <tedg> So if you register "foo:///" for your application we know that "com.foo_foo_123" is the app id for all urls that are "foo://"
[17:56] <tedg> If it's something like the click scope it knows because it's looking at the click packages, and those generate the app ids themselves.
[17:56] <niemeyer> Okay, but how does that get into the process that is running?
[17:57] <Farsch> I don't understand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install. What is my fault here?
[17:57] <niemeyer> tedg: I want to run a command from the terminal, how will mir know the app id?
[17:57] <popey> Farsch: I'll edit that
[17:57] <kenvandine> niemeyer, run it with upstart-app-launch
[17:57] <Farsch> popey: cool
[17:58] <tedg> niemeyer, You can't run a command directly from the terminal, you need to pass the appid to upstart-app-launch to start the process for you, so it knows the appid before the process starts.
[17:58] <tedg> Would be interesting to have the terminal set up it's own trusted session so things could just overlay on top of it. But that's future work :-)
[17:59] <niemeyer> tedg, kenvandine: Okay, and then what goes with the process to authenticate that session?
[17:59] <kenvandine> upstart does that for you
[17:59] <tedg> niemeyer, Nothing goes with the process really, we tell Mir that it's coming and it sets up and gets ready for your PID to connect. So we preauthorize that PID.
[18:00] <niemeyer> tedg: Okay, so it's based on the process pid.. interesting
[18:00] <tedg> PID and app id.
[18:00] <tedg> We tie the two together.
[18:00] <tedg> Eventually it'll be the cgroup that we put your PID in. But that's not there yet.
[18:00] <popey> Farsch: ok, fixed. let me know if there's any other obscure instructions. It was written mostly by developers for developers.
[18:00] <niemeyer> tedg: Well, if the process doesn't have an app id anywhere, it cannot use that I suppsoe
[18:00] <Farsch> popey :)
[18:01] <tedg> niemeyer, Well, you can "create" an appid several ways. Making a small click package with the utility. Or putting a desktop file in ~/.local/share/applications/foo.desktop that points to your exe.
[18:02] <niemeyer> tedg: Yeah, sorry, I understand the idea is to have it all handled for developers.. but I'm sitting on one of the layers people will use to get there.. it's useful to understand what's under the table to avoid surprises
[18:03] <niemeyer> tedg: Making a click package doesn't magically provide an app id to an in memory process, for example
[18:03] <tedg> niemeyer, Sure, no problem. I'm recommending to the QtCreator folks to just create a click package on "deploy" reason being that it's easy to roll back.
[18:04] <niemeyer> tedg: There must be something more interesting, lower level, going on for a process to be able to access a privileged channel
[18:05] <niemeyer> tedg: yeah, that's a good idea.. but there's something about people being able to login into the terminal and seeing their application working interactively that I wouldn't like to let go, if we can
[18:05] <tedg> Not quite sure how you'd already be in memory.
[18:05] <niemeyer> tedg: Well, being in memory is just a matter of executing a process..
[18:05] <niemeyer> tedg: and that does happen, whatever the mechanism
[18:05] <kenvandine> but that happens at the end
[18:05] <kenvandine> after upstart does it's magic
[18:06] <kenvandine> which is very magical :)
[18:06] <niemeyer> tedg: If that process does not carry any privileged information *knowingly* (as in, being coded there), there must be something in the environment that provides that privilege
[18:06] <niemeyer> tedg: Which is what I am trying to understand
[18:06] <tedg> Correct, the upstart jobs provide a dance with unity-mir to setup the situation.
[18:07] <tedg> Then there's an upstart job that "is" the application at that point.
[18:07] <tedg> For instance, run a bunch of apps on your device and then do "initctl list"
[18:07] <tedg> You'll see all of the applications there.
[18:08] <niemeyer> tedg: Sure, that's a list of jobs, some of them with processes attached to them
[18:09] <tedg> Well all applications are instances of the application job.
[18:09] <tedg> So every instance has a process by definition.
[18:09] <niemeyer> tedg: click-user-hooks stop/waiting
[18:09] <niemeyer> tedg: This one does not, I suppose?
[18:10] <tedg> No, that's not an app. That's the click user hooks to execute when the user session starts.
[18:10] <tedg> The jobs are application-click and application-legacy
[18:14] <niemeyer> tedg: Okay, I really don't get what you mean by that
[18:14] <tedg> niemeyer, Start an application on your device then do "initctl list | grep application"
[18:14] <niemeyer> tedg: Yep, shows nothing
[18:15] <tedg> niemeyer, Are you root or the phablet?
[18:15] <niemeyer> tedg: Ah, yes
[18:15] <niemeyer> tedg: OKay, that works
[18:15] <niemeyer> I mean, not being root
[18:18] <niemeyer> Aha
[18:19] <niemeyer> env APP_ID
[18:19] <niemeyer> # For Surface Flinger
[18:19] <niemeyer> env APP_DESKTOP_FILE
[18:19] <niemeyer> exec @pkglibexecdir@/exec-line-exec
[18:19] <niemeyer> (from application-legacy.conf)
[18:21] <cwayne> stgraber: hey, is there a stable-customized channel?
[18:21] <stgraber> no
[18:23] <cwayne> so i assume we should just use trusty-customized then?
[18:26] <niemeyer> tedg, kenvandine: I've digged through upstart-app-launch and things are more clear, thank you
[18:30] <kenvandine> niemeyer, np
[18:30]  * tedg is happy to have survived the first round of niemeyer hacking of UAL :-)
[18:34] <dobey> 2014/04/17 14:34:00 Flashing version 10 from ubuntu-touch/stable channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device grouper
[18:34] <dobey> lol
[18:34] <dobey> ogra_: ^^ maybe taht should be deleted too then eh?
[18:35] <ogra_> dobey, why ? thats the 13.10 release
[18:36] <ogra_> use the trusty channel if you want to use the last trusty image
[18:36] <ogra_> (devel will soon point to U so you need to explicitly use trusty=
[18:36] <ogra_> )
[18:36] <dobey> ogra_: well if it's not supported any more, and "stable" is supposed to be trusty now (per the mail from didrocks) it seems weird to get a version that's 300 builds behind
[18:37] <dobey> ogra_: or stable means different things for different devices now?
[18:37] <ogra_> it means "not moving"
[18:37] <dobey> so yes, it means different things for different devices then
[18:38] <ogra_> well, at some point we will likely flush it and actually have stable stable images in there :)
[18:38] <ogra_> until then stable just means not moving so press people have something to test etc
[18:39] <dobey> well, touch doesn't have the same support contract as full ubuntu does it?
[18:39] <dobey> do we want press people testing build 10, just because they happen to try and flash a 2012 N7 though?
[18:39] <ogra_> no
[18:39] <dobey> right…
[18:40] <ogra_> well, we could have killed grouper altogether
[18:40] <ogra_> do you prefer that
[18:40] <pmcgowan> ogra_, know where the release notes are for touch?
[18:40] <dobey> sure, and release notes to say so :)
[18:40] <ogra_> pmcgowan, i think asac, and dider did them in the general release notes somewhere
[18:41] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
[18:41] <dobey> pmcgowan: 2014/04/17 14:34:00 Flashing version 10 from ubuntu-touch/stable channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device grouper
[18:41] <ogra_> pmcgowan, ^^
[18:41] <dobey> doh
[18:41] <dobey> stupid copy/paste
[18:41] <dobey> meant that url...
[18:42] <pmcgowan> heh
[18:42] <pmcgowan> I found desktop rel notes
[18:42] <pmcgowan> thanks
[18:42] <ogra_> dobey, "The following devices we stopped producing builds for:" ... see, we dont say we retroactively wipe the image for them
[18:42] <dobey> ogra_: then why not put image 294 in stable?
[18:42] <ogra_> dobey, app developers with such devices should still have a chance to try out their apps
[18:43] <ogra_> because then we would support it
[18:43] <ogra_> whats in the stable channel is our officially supported stuff
[18:43] <dobey> and we support image build 10?
[18:43] <ogra_> we supported image build 10 as the saucy release
[18:43] <ogra_> sigh
[18:44] <ogra_> why am i doing this
[18:44] <ogra_> can you discuss with someone else
[18:44] <dobey> and it has the ame support contract as full ubuntu 13.10?
[18:44] <dobey> sure, who?
[18:45] <ogra_> no idea seriously, i wont change it and i dont get why it matters so much to you that you have to have a discussion about it for 30min
[18:46] <dobey> i'm just trying to understand what we actually support
[18:46] <ogra_> well, the same things as we do on desktop
[18:46] <ogra_> we dont wipe 12.10 amd64+mac just because we dont support it anymore on 14.04
[18:46] <ogra_> same goes for the phone stuff
[18:47] <dobey> sure we do, it gets archived on a different server; it doesn't exist on the main archive server any more
[18:47] <ogra_> that we kept the last builds of devel around and didnt delete them is only for your convenience we wont promote them anywhere but you have a chance to use trusty even on an unsupported device
[18:47] <ogra_> thats nonsense
[18:48] <dobey> how is it nonsense?
[18:48] <ogra_> we dont remove an arch for all former releases because a new release dropped it
[18:48] <ogra_> i meant 13.10
[18:48] <ogra_> stop nitpicking please
[18:48] <dobey> i am not nitpicking
[18:49] <ogra_> the current releasse structure isnt differnt from the rest of ubuntu ... its just that we have channels
[18:51] <dobey> my understanding has always been that the phone images do not receive the same support term as the ISO ubuntu releases of the same version. ie, we don't have LTS on the phone images. if that is somehow different now, i just want to know what to expect, and to have a definite understanding of what the support terms are
[18:52] <ogra_> no, the phone is on its own ... not LTS not supported etc
[18:52] <ogra_> nontheless we mimic the ubuntu setup 1:1 until we have to change that with actual supported releases
[18:54] <Hashcode> ogra_ why can't I find 11.04 release of Ubuntu Touch for my OG Droid.. pls fix k thx.
[18:54]  * Hashcode ducks.
[18:55]  * ogra_ points Hashcode to pandaboard images :P
[18:55] <Hashcode> Lol
[18:55] <Hashcode> wow I have like 6 devices which all need to be updated.
[18:55] <Hashcode> I'm slacking.
[18:56] <Hashcode> ogra_ how many devices support the flipped boot now?
[18:56] <ogra_> Hashcode, i honestly lost the overview
[18:56] <Hashcode> I felt like it was tiny :/
[18:56] <ogra_> a handfull perhaps ... i think many ports just rot
[18:57] <Hashcode> Well in theory if you can bring a device up on the flipped boot style, they are easier to update no?
[18:57] <ogra_> if i ever manage to find the time i'll revive the galaxy S2 port
[18:57] <ogra_> yeah
[18:57] <ogra_> and we'll make it even easier
[18:57] <ogra_> all device specific bits will move into the android side during next cycle
[18:57] <Hashcode> Seemed like there was a hard coding issue in the boot script which was killing my tries
[18:58] <Hashcode> oh nice
[18:58] <ogra_> and i'm hoping to have some helper scripts then too that auto-generate udev rules etc
[18:58] <Hashcode> ah right
[18:58] <dobey> how rude
[18:58] <Hashcode> there was that too
[18:58] <Hashcode> dobey: in a funny sort of way
[18:59] <dobey> not really
[18:59] <Hashcode> certainly at your expense tho, for which I apologize.
[19:00] <VeDriod4> Hey guys
[19:00] <VeDriod4> I need some help
[19:01] <Hashcode> ogra_ like helper scripts per SoC?
[19:01] <ogra_> no
[19:01] <ogra_> generic ones
[19:01] <Hashcode> or more centered on device type
[19:02] <Hashcode> ah kind of a cannon approach for filling in a bunch of default rules
[19:02] <ogra_> generic scripts that can translate uevent configs into udev rules for example
[19:02] <Hashcode> oh so they's use device info
[19:02] <Hashcode> I see what you're saying
[19:02] <ogra_> right
[19:02] <Hashcode> nifty
[19:03] <ogra_> same goes for powerd configs and all the stuff that you have to submit to different packages today for a port
[19:04] <VeDroid4> How can I install ubuntu-touch trusty on my Motorola Droid4 (XT894) &
[19:04] <VeDroid4> ??
[19:04] <ogra_> check the devices wikipage
[19:04] <ogra_> !devices | VeDroid4
[19:05] <VeDroid4> aaaww... come on)) information on this pages is too old!((
[19:05] <ogra_> if there is an image it should be linked there ... and instructions too ... if there isnt, you can search through the xda forums perhaps someone made one that isnt on our page
[19:05] <Hashcode> VeDroid4: that build hasn't been touched in months
[19:06] <Hashcode> it's on my (very large) TODO list
[19:06] <ogra_> yeah, many builds just idle since a while
[19:06] <Hashcode> And ogra_ hates cdma so I was less inclined to work on it :p
[19:06] <ogra_> i love cdma ... i can make my colleagues shriek when i mention it :)
[19:07] <Hashcode> hah
[19:07] <Hashcode> it's so bad.  I should really swap to TMo or something
[19:08] <mbalmer> cdma? csmacd!
[19:08] <VeDroid4> so u guys wanna say that ubuntu-touch 14.04 is not ready for install on my device, right?
[19:08] <Hashcode> Yes, I'll say that.
[19:09] <ogra_> seemingly
[19:09] <VeDroid4> okay
[19:09] <Hashcode> Since it was a community port
[19:09] <VeDroid4> how long i have waiting for?
[19:09] <Hashcode> You wouldn't be able to use the phone as a phone even if it was updated unless you're on a GSM carrier.
[19:10] <VeDroid4> i`m using gsm
[19:10] <Hashcode> VeDroid4: I'll see if I can get another dev to pickup the Moto devices and get new builds going.
[19:10] <Hashcode> I'm not :P
[19:11] <VeDroid4> its terrible..
[19:12] <niemeyer> tedg: Any tricks for overcoming the fact the upstart user jobs are not doing any logging?
[19:12] <tedg> niemeyer, What do you mean? They log to ~/.cache/upstart/
[19:12] <syntroPi> is 14.04 officially released for nexus 4 or is it still beta?
[19:12] <ogra_> official
[19:13] <syntroPi> can you point me to the download index?
[19:13] <ogra_> well, its still not a feature complete thing
[19:13] <ogra_> syntroPi, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes#Ubuntu_Touch
[19:13] <ogra_> the install page is linked there
[19:13] <syntroPi> thank you
[19:13] <niemeyer> tedg: Oh, sweet. I assumed the note about user jobs not being able to log was valid here too
[19:15] <ogra_> niemeyer, quite the opposite ... we have a hard time making sure user jobs dont log to much :)
[19:15] <ogra_> seems quite fashionable to leave all debugging on in your app nowadays :)
[19:16] <niemeyer> ogra_: Was that fixed in upstart in general?
[19:16] <ogra_> that it logs session jobs ?
[19:16] <ogra_> i didnt know it was broken :)
[19:17] <niemeyer> ogra_: E.g.
[19:17] <niemeyer> ogra_: "User jobs cannot currently take advantage of job logging."
[19:17] <niemeyer> [1] upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/
[19:17] <ogra_> well, we always used that ... since day one of switching to session management via upstart
[19:17] <ogra_> i guess the cookbook needs updating or this is just ubuntu specific
[19:18] <ogra_> (cookbook is upstream documentation)
[19:18] <VeDroid4> Hashcode:
[19:18] <VeDroid4> I`m, and all my country neighbous, using GSM only. And it`s not because we havent CDMA ... our GSM provides much better connection quality.
[19:18] <niemeyer> ogra_: Well, all good either way.. very happy that it works :)
[19:18] <ogra_> :)
[19:18] <VeDroid4> okay...
[19:18] <VeDroid4> Thanx all `bout information
[19:18] <VeDroid4> bye
[19:18] <VeDroid4> :)
[19:22] <kirkland> what channel should I deploy to a Nexus7, as of today?
[19:23] <kirkland> ubuntu-touch/trusty?
[19:24] <ogra_> kirkland, devel will carry you over to U
[19:24] <ogra_> (ubuntu-touch/devel)
[19:24] <kirkland> ogra_: with devel type speedbumps along the way, right?
[19:24] <ogra_> and give you the latest for now as well
[19:24] <ogra_> devel is usually pretty stable
[19:24] <dobey> kirkland: which n7? 2012 or 2013?
[19:24] <kirkland> ogra_: I think I'm looking for something pretty stable
[19:24] <ogra_> oh, right
[19:25] <ogra_> 2012 is dead
[19:25] <kirkland> dobey: 2013;  I understood my 2x 2012's are already deprecated?  (tis a shame, if true)
[19:25] <ogra_> there is one image for it left in devel ... and the saucy release in the stable channel
[19:25] <dobey> kirkland: then i think you want ubuntu-device-flash --channel trusty for 2013 and soemwhat "stable"
[19:26] <kirkland> dobey: great, thanks
[19:26] <ogra_> kirkland, go for the devel channel ... that way you get fixes and have the latest QA signed off image
[19:26] <ogra_> do *not* use "trusty"
[19:26] <ogra_> thats a dead end
[19:26] <kirkland> ogra_: hmm, I dunno;  I really don't want to "fight" with my tablet...
[19:26] <ogra_> well, but you probably want bugfixes :)
[19:27] <dobey> yeah, 2012 is no longer supported :-/
[19:27] <kirkland> ogra_: okay, I'm going to roll with devel, and I'm going to come looking for you when it breaks :-)
[19:27] <ogra_> k
[19:27] <ogra_> :)
[19:27] <kirkland> :-)
[19:27] <ogra_> devel is what sabdfl and rickspencer3 run too
[19:27] <rickspencer3> hey ogra_
[19:27] <ogra_> :)
[19:27] <rickspencer3> ftr, I run devel-proposed on my tablet (N7)
[19:27] <rickspencer3> flo, that is :)
[19:27] <ogra_> so you can count on us keeping it usable
[19:28] <ogra_> whee ! brave !!
[19:28] <rickspencer3> kirkland, if you are using your phone as your phone, use devel
[19:28] <kirkland> rickspencer3: I tried that for a while, maybe in December/January;  didn't work out well for me
[19:28] <rickspencer3> ogra_, didrocks, and everyone else do a great job of keeping it stable but reasonably fresh
[19:28] <kirkland> \o/
[19:29] <rickspencer3> kirkland, I've been doing it since last May, so I don't know what your problem is ;)
[19:29] <rickspencer3> I'm getting close to one year sans android :)
[19:29] <kirkland> rickspencer3: probably a difference in expectations, I'd imagine
[19:29]  * ogra_ is getting close to drop it completely 
[19:29] <ogra_> (android that is)
[19:29]  * dobey can happily say he has never used android
[19:29] <rickspencer3> kirkland, I don't know
[19:29] <rickspencer3> Ubuntu does everything I need
[19:30] <rickspencer3> and when it doesn't, I write an app for it
[19:30] <rsalveti> :D
[19:30] <dobey> rickspencer3: i think that's what he means ;)
[19:30] <rickspencer3> at this very moment I am writing an app to combine all my transportation data needs for Washington, DC
[19:30] <rickspencer3> dobey, right, but "I am missing foo app" is one thing
[19:31] <rickspencer3> but stability concerns and such, we aren't perfect, but certainly good enough
[19:31] <rickspencer3> and compared to my first android phone, I think we are reasonably stable ;)
[19:31]  * rickspencer3 remembers getting very good at pulling the battery of his samsung galaxy 2

[19:31] <rickspencer3> kirkland, do it! go all in!
[19:32] <dobey> if i could get supported hardware at a reasonable size, i could possibly start using ubuntu as a phone now
[19:32] <rickspencer3> dobey, is Nexus 4 too big or too small?
[19:32] <dobey> too big
[19:32] <rickspencer3> interesting
[19:32] <rickspencer3> dobey, I am afraid you are screwed
[19:32] <dobey> nexus 5 is sexy, but way too big :-/
[19:33] <rickspencer3> I haven't seen a smaller phone in a while :)
[19:33] <Hashcode> MotoX port would work
[19:33] <rickspencer3> at mwc they were getting kinda freakishly large
[19:33] <dobey> yeah, i don't want a 10" phone
[19:33] <dobey> 10" is very close to the largest size i want for a laptop
[19:34] <dobey> there are a couple of new phones that are smaller, but they are not supported afaik
[19:34] <rickspencer3> dobey, so, I find your excuse pretty terrible :)
[19:35] <rickspencer3> you need start running a Nexus 4 and you need to like it :)
[19:35]  * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
[19:35] <dobey> the nexus 4 is kind of ugly anyway
[19:35] <kirkland> rickspencer3: I'm all in, on my nexus7, installing devel now
[19:35] <rickspencer3> kirkland, nice
[19:35] <anshulk> so mir and x11 versions of unity8 look different or exactly the same ?
[19:35] <ogra_> same ... but more functional on the tablet/phone
[19:36] <rickspencer3> kirkland, so, on the Nexus 4, we currently have a couple of small stability issues, which are painful when apport kicks in, otherwise you wouldn't really notice
[19:36] <rickspencer3> kirkland, and also, the scopes currently have a couple of performance issues
[19:36] <rickspencer3> you'll notice especially when vertically scrolling
[19:36] <kirkland> rickspencer3: I'm on a nexus 5...I don't see where that's supported yet?
[19:36] <rickspencer3> and finally ...
[19:36] <rickspencer3> we have the qt event process problem
[19:36] <ogra_> kirkland, Tassadar has a system-image server for it
[19:37] <Tassadar> I should add that to the wiki
[19:37] <rickspencer3> kirkland, so, until next week or so, many events won't get processed when your device's screen is off
[19:37] <rickspencer3> but text and phone calls work fine
[19:37] <ogra_> Tassadar, ++
[19:37] <Tassadar> the /devices page seems a bit..outdated
[19:37] <ogra_> a bit ...
[19:37] <rickspencer3> kirkland, also, it's really really fun to write Ubuntu apps now
[19:37]  * ogra_ giggles
[19:38] <Tassadar> "quantal"
[19:38] <Tassadar> hm)
[19:38] <ogra_> yeah
[19:38] <kirkland> rickspencer3: actually, I have one that I built using Cordova, for Android, I'm hoping it "just works" with Touch
[19:38] <ogra_> most images you will find out there still use the mwc rootfs
[19:38] <ogra_> from pre-quantal
[19:38] <rickspencer3> kirkland, it should "just work" will be interesting to see
[19:38] <dobey> lol. the htc one "mini" and galaxy s4 "mini" are still 4.3" screens :-/
[19:38] <dobey> so much for "mini"
[19:39] <ogra_> kirkland, if it doesnt, dbarth is your man
[19:41] <kirkland> rickspencer3: it's pretty much just html5 and javascript
[19:41] <rickspencer3> kirkland, should work and if it doesn't let's get some bugs logged and make it work
[19:41] <rickspencer3> dbarth will surely ensure that
[19:42] <kirkland> rickspencer3: it's an app that turns your phone/tablet into a picture frame;  you point it at an image source (currently, blogger and wordpress blogs are supported)
[19:42] <rickspencer3> he's pretty passionate about making cordova apps run smoothly
[19:42] <rickspencer3> kirkland, cute
[19:42] <rickspencer3> do it
[19:42] <rickspencer3> get it in the store!
[19:42] <kirkland> rickspencer3: an in-browser client is here: http://blicture.com/?u=theravingrick.blogspot.com
[19:42] <dobey> guess i'll just have to make my own phone
[19:42] <rickspencer3> kirkland, I think mhall119 might be able to point you in the right direction for getting it going, if not maybe it's dpm?
[19:43] <kirkland> rickspencer3: it = into the store?
[19:43] <kirkland> rickspencer3: yeah, definitely that's the plan
[19:43] <rickspencer3> yeah, get it in the store
[19:43] <rickspencer3> do it
[19:43] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:43] <kirkland> rickspencer3: ack, wilco :-)
[19:43] <rickspencer3> sounds like a perfect app
[19:44] <kirkland> rickspencer3: you have some weird pictures in your blog :-)
[19:44] <frecel> hello everyone
[19:44] <rickspencer3> kirkland, uh, hopefully you haven't found my secret personal blog
[19:44] <kirkland> rickspencer3: now I'm on a hunt!
[19:44] <rickspencer3> :)
[19:44] <rickspencer3> j/k
[19:44] <kirkland> :-)
[19:44] <Farsch_sleep> popey: Thanks again for the Wiki edit.
[19:45] <popey> Farsch_sleep: no problemo!
[19:45] <frecel> I havent updated my phone for a while (it's on r255) and when I'm trying to update it it shows that it's up to date, what's the safest way to update it without breaking something?
[19:45] <ogra_> frecel, what device ?
[19:45] <ogra_> the supported ones should be on 302
[19:46] <ogra_> and if you have an unsupported one i fear yo have to saty with what you have
[19:46] <ogra_> *stay
[19:46] <frecel> ogra_: nexus4
[19:47] <ogra_> hmm, that should definitely offer an update ... what channel are you on ?
[19:48] <frecel> devel
[19:49] <ogra_> hmm, thats definitely on 302
[19:49] <frecel> I was just going to force an update through shell but I don't want to breake anything that isn't broken yet
[19:49] <ogra_> try rebooting
[19:50] <kirkland> so I've run "ubuntu-device-flash --channel=devel --bootstrap"
[19:51] <ogra_> sounds good
[19:51] <kirkland> and I have the following:
[19:51] <kirkland> http://paste.ubuntu.com/7270379/
[19:51] <kirkland> and my device is in the Ubuntu Touch Recovery menu
[19:51] <kirkland> with reboot system now selected
[19:51] <kirkland> is that what I want?
[19:51] <ogra_> ignore the device screen
[19:51] <kirkland> ah
[19:51] <ogra_> just leave it
[19:51] <kirkland> okay
[19:51] <ogra_> :)
[19:51] <kirkland> now it just rebooted
[19:51] <pmcgowan> this part requires patience
[19:51] <ogra_> yeah
[19:51] <pmcgowan> ah good
[19:52] <kirkland> and I have an Ubuntu spinning logo
[19:52] <ogra_> and we need to put some screen overlay in place
[19:52] <ogra_> so the menu gets hidden
[19:53] <pmcgowan> kyleN, might be a good note for your doc ^^ dont touch it till it reboots
[19:53] <frecel> ogra_:  rebooted, it's still checking for updates
[19:53] <frecel> ogra_: aaand it says its up to date now
[19:53] <ogra_> dang
[19:54] <kirkland> ogra_: yeah, agreed;  I thought I was supposed to press a button then
[19:54] <ogra_> is that a writable image ?
[19:54] <frecel> ogra_: is there a shell equivalent to doing that update check?
[19:55] <ogra_> system-image-cli -v
[19:55] <ogra_> note that will start a download on cmdline if it finds something
[19:56] <kirkland> ogra_: okay, command line finished, exited 0;  I am at another prompt, asking:  "ROM may flash stock recovery on boot.  Fix?  THIS CAN NOT BE UNDONE."  No is selected, the other option is Yes Disable recovery flash
[19:56] <kirkland> ogra_: looks like I want "No"
[19:56] <kyleN> pmcgowan, i already say that: "Wait. In most cases no input from you is required."
[19:56] <kirkland> ogra_: correct?
[19:56] <kyleN> i can add 'until it reboots' though
[19:56] <ogra_> kirkland, doesnt matter just select something ...
[19:57] <ogra_> (thats another wart ...)
[19:57] <pmcgowan> kyleN, ok, we have kirkland here in the process too bad we didnt point him to the new stuff ;)
[19:57] <ogra_> its a no-op
[19:58] <kyleN> hey kirkland: https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1fmv_WP4Atcf1p2I-zZtAOUF0XuYMtAsREroXpq5r1b8/edit#
[19:58] <bacteu> does the 14.04 version of ubuntu touch have that hdmi-out desktop mode?
[19:58] <ogra_> bacteu, heh, no ... thats something that will happen on the way to 16.04
[19:59] <bacteu> ogra_: it seems to me they keep moving the goalposts
[19:59] <ogra_> we first need a 100% working phone OS before starting that
[19:59] <pmcgowan> kyleN, do you have that ROM may flash propt above? that tricked me last time
[19:59] <kirkland> ogra_: success, thanks all ;-)
[19:59] <ogra_> :)
[19:59] <kirkland> kyleN: thanks
[20:00] <kirkland> kyleN: I more or less followed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[20:00] <kirkland> kyleN: save for the few questions above ^
[20:01] <kyleN> kirkland, yes I am refactoring that and it will move to developer.ubuntu.com
[20:03] <kyleN> pmcgowan, i don't recall seeing the ROM prompt
[20:05] <pmcgowan> kyleN, I saw it when we flashed a bunch of nexus 7s recently
[20:06] <frecel> ogra_: I think I will just reflash it and get over with it
[20:06] <frecel> nothing works
[20:06] <dobey> ugh, nexus 4 prices are ridiculous
[20:07] <frecel> dobey: I know right, I'm just waiting for my sister to upgrade her phone so I can "borrow" hers :D
[20:08] <dobey> "pay me $350 for this phone i used for 6 months that i bought for $250"
[20:08] <pmcgowan> dobey, we must have driven prices up :)
[20:12] <bacteu> dobey: the $250 price was a clearance sale, it's not really fair to condemn the value of the device forever just because it was sold much cheaper at one point
[20:13] <dobey> bacteu: it is when a bunch of people bought it at that price to use a few months and sell it; and even if one did pay $350 for one on launch day, then it's been used for over a year, and $350 is still not an acceptable price for it
[20:14] <bacteu> why isn't $350 an acceptable price? It's still an amazing device
[20:15] <dobey> it's still an obsolete device and $350 was the price for a brand new device on launch day. not a device that is full of pocket lint and covered in finger grease
[20:15] <bacteu> are apple products the only devices allowed to retain their value?
[20:15] <dobey> did i say anything about apple devices?
[20:16] <bacteu> dobey: obsolete device? On the contrary!
[20:16] <echoe> donkey I don't think nexus 4 devices are $350? Not from what I saw
[20:16] <dobey> can i run ubuntu touch on an iphone 4s as an officially supported device?
[20:16] <echoe> (Sorry, dobey. Autocorrect ftw)
[20:17] <echoe> (If they are I may want to get to selling mine ...)
[20:17] <bacteu> echoe: indeed, they are between $200-$250 on ebay
[20:17] <dobey> bacteu: yes it's obsolete. can i buy one direct from google today?
[20:17] <frecel> I picked mine up for $200
[20:18] <echoe> Yeah, I don't see how that's a bad price. They were priced at cost and as such had better specifications than other phones above their price. There are a lot of advantages to having a nexus phone as well
[20:18] <bacteu> dobey: just because something isn't being sold doesn't make it obsolete
[20:18] <dobey> plus, i don't want to spend $200-300 for a phone that probably won't be supported in 6 months for ubuntu either
[20:18] <echoe> (I'm using a 5c now, though ...)
[20:18] <dobey> bacteu: sure it does
[20:19] <bacteu> echoe: which colour?
[20:19] <echoe> dobey: if you want to convince yourself to not get a nexus 4 that's fine. The battery was the big sticking point for me, it's not a perfect device (nothing is)
[20:19] <dobey> i already am convinced to not get a nexus 4
[20:19] <bacteu> the curved edges were awfully nice on the nexus 4
[20:19] <echoe> It's blue! I wanted a yellow one but I got this on eBay for under $300 :o and the blue one's kind of pretty anyways.
[20:19] <bacteu> shame they skipped that for the nexus 5
[20:19] <dobey> but my nexus 7 is no longer supported already
[20:20] <bacteu> echoe: nice
[20:21] <bacteu> dobey: if you want a cheap android, get a moto g, but it probably won't get ubuntu touch
[20:21] <dobey> i don't want android
[20:21] <dobey> n4 is the only officially supported phone for ubuntu touch right now
[20:21] <echoe> The nexus 4 should be supported for ubuntu touch for a while I'd think
[20:22] <bacteu> I really like that I can duel boot between ubuntu touch and android 4.4 on my nexus 4
[20:22] <frecel> I hear the nexus 5 build is pretty solid though
[20:22] <dobey> echoe: that's what i thought/was told when i got my nexus 7, too though
[20:22] <echoe> Your 2012 nexus 7 running tegra 3?
[20:22] <dobey> nexus 5 would be great if it was 1.5" smaller
[20:22] <bacteu> the soc on the 2012 nexus 7 isn't that good
[20:23] <echoe> yeah idk about that
[20:23] <bacteu> the 2013 nexus 7 has the same soc as the nexus 4 iirc
[20:23] <echoe> The nexus 4 one is under clocked I think but they are at least very similar
[20:23] <bacteu> s4 pro
[20:23] <dobey> i don't know/care what the soc is. i just don't want be buying new things every few months
[20:24] <echoe> You should care, since slow things don't get updated as much and things that are like other new things are updated more
[20:25] <bacteu> I think I'll get at least another year of use out of this nexus 4
[20:25] <echoe> There's a community build for the 2012 nexus 7 though right?
[20:25] <bacteu> echoe: yuck
[20:26] <echoe> oh community builds aren't too bad
[20:27] <dobey> they are if what you need to use is the official daily builds
[20:27] <echoe> ... why do you need to use the official daily builds?
[20:27] <dobey> because that's where the code i'm writing ends up?
[20:28] <echoe> Oh, well, yeah. If you're writing code for dailies that makes sense ... eh. No way to know exactly what the targets are though. Price of development, or something
[20:28] <bacteu> dobey: if you contribute a lot to the project maybe you could ask shuttleworth nicely if he'll buy you a nexus 4
[20:28] <Tassadar> you can have daily builds with community ports now, and the core rootfs is the same
[20:29] <Tassadar> but yeah, depends on the port
[20:30] <dobey> what i want, is the nexus 5 in a package that's 1.5" smaller
[20:30] <bacteu> the moto x sounds like that
[20:30] <bacteu> but its more expensive
[20:30] <dobey> but it's not supported
[20:31] <dobey> and it's a motorola
[20:31] <bacteu> motorola are still owned by google
[20:31] <bacteu> the sale has to be approved
[20:31] <dobey> yes, and they still make motorola phones
[20:32] <dobey> i have never been impressed with the quality of motorola phones
[20:32] <bacteu> I have
[20:33] <bacteu> I don't mean to sound like a salesman, but the moto x and moto g are quite good devices
[20:33] <Tassadar> moto X is still 4.7 inches, by the way
[20:33] <dobey> the moto x is basically a nexus 4
[20:34] <Tassadar> so it's the same size as N5, just bigger bezels
[20:34] <dobey> no, it's smaller than 5
[20:34] <bacteu> Tassadar: but the bezel is a lot smaller
[20:34] <dobey> it's same size is n4
[20:34] <Tassadar> n4 is nearly the same as n5
[20:34] <dobey> and same hardware as n4, for that matter
[20:34] <dobey> no it isn't
[20:34] <bacteu> tyhe moto x is easier to hold in the hand even though it shares the same screen size as the nexus 4
[20:35] <dobey> the n5 is alsmot a half inch larger in both directions, than the n4
[20:35] <Tassadar> the display isn't, but when I had them both in my hands, they are really close size-wise
[20:35] <Tassadar> hm
[20:35] <bacteu> dobey: the moto x is a s800, the nexus 4 is a s4 pro, different generations
[20:35] <Hashcode> dobey: the moto x is so close to AOSP it doesn't matter.  And it's "better" than AOSP by gaining all the benefits of the tech
[20:35] <dobey> bacteu: wikipedia says moto x is s4 pro
[20:35] <bacteu> really?
[20:36] <Hashcode> It'd be an interesting project for Ubuntu Touch
[20:36] <dobey> Hashcode: what the heck is an ADSP?
[20:36] <nhaines> I like my N5.
[20:36] <nhaines> dobey: AOSP?
[20:36] <Hashcode> dobey: android opensource project
[20:36] <Hashcode> D = O
[20:36] <dobey> oh
[20:36] <bacteu> isn't adsp something to do with audio?
[20:36] <dobey> yeah i don't care aobut android
[20:36] <Hashcode> yeah
[20:36] <Hashcode> dobey: that's not my point
[20:37] <dobey> Hashcode: then what was your point? :)
[20:37] <Hashcode> My point is you were saying it's moto and not google
[20:37] <dobey> no
[20:37] <dobey> i was saying it was moto
[20:37] <dobey> google doesn't make phones
[20:37] <Hashcode> IE: it's not a nexus
[20:37] <bacteu> yeah, the moto x has active nofications and always listening, the nexus 5 doesn't have those
[20:38] <Hashcode> ^^
[20:38] <dobey> it is pretty ironic that moto hasn't made a nexus phone, yet google owns them
[20:38] <Hashcode> And yet they've made a better phone than the nexus devices
[20:38] <dobey> Hashcode: i don't care if the phone is a nexus or not
[20:38] <dobey> Hashcode: according to the hardware specs, the moto x is the same as the n4, and the n5 is better than both
[20:39] <nhaines> dobey: the N5's screen is miles better than the N4's.
[20:39] <bacteu> dobey: its not ironic, its intentional, google is very afraid of showing favourtism
[20:39] <dobey> nhaines: i know, i've seen them both in person. but it's also incredibly huge
[20:39] <Hashcode> dobey: you were asking for a smaller screen, and I bought up the only "competitive" device in existence
[20:39] <nhaines> dobey: not so bad.  :)
[20:39] <dobey> Hashcode: that's fine. i simply said it isn't what i want
[20:40] <Hashcode> to each his own :p
[20:40] <bacteu> samsung is on the verge of ditching android, and google doesn't want that
[20:40] <Hashcode> heh
[20:40] <dobey> i want the hardware that's in the n5, in a device that's smaller than the n4
[20:40] <Hashcode> dobey: you're not a QCOM fan?
[20:41] <bacteu> the moto g is on par with the nexus 4 performance wise
[20:41] <Hashcode> oh I see what you're saying
[20:41] <Hashcode> At the price point, the Moto G would be a fun device to get on Ubuntu Touch
[20:42] <Hashcode> also dobey: not everything shows on the paper specs
[20:43] <dobey> sure, but paper specs are a damn good start
[20:43] <Hashcode> more and more it's coming down to details which don't represent on paper
[20:44] <dobey> i don't care what app stores the phones have by default either ;)
[20:44] <Hashcode> I'm talking about sensors and functionality
[20:44] <Hashcode> not the default OS
[20:45] <bacteu> doesn't the nexus 5 have that low energy step counter sensor?
[20:45] <Hashcode> S4/5?
[20:45] <Hashcode> has a low energy pedometer if I recall
[20:45] <Tassadar> n5 has that too
[20:46] <dobey> don't they all have ANT+ now too?
[20:46] <Hashcode> Is it the N5 which has OTG issues?
[20:46] <Tassadar> and a chip for always-on voice recognition)
[20:46] <Tassadar> Hashcode: no, that's n4
[20:46] <Hashcode> ah right
[20:46] <Tassadar> n4 needs external power, if I remember correctly
[20:46] <Hashcode> they used the OTG power pin for slimport on the N4
[20:46] <Hashcode> yeah
[20:47] <n3tJ4ckr> Question: Should I be experiencing poor performance using the Nexus 4?
[20:48] <bacteu> yes
[20:48] <n3tJ4ckr> Cool
[20:48] <n3tJ4ckr> As long as I'm not going crazy.
[20:48] <rymate1234> i thought the nexus 4 was pretty powerful?
[20:49] <pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, what are you seeing?
[20:49] <bacteu> rymate1234: its still a mobile phone running a beta product
[20:49] <dobey> oh, ant+ requires extra stuff it seems
[20:49] <n3tJ4ckr> pmcgowan, slow window loading. Also some mild freezing.
[20:50] <rymate1234> ah
[20:51]  * dobey remembers when everyone at uds was hyping tegra :-/
[20:51] <ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, runs faster than android for me in many areas
[20:51] <n3tJ4ckr> Was just wondering if it was a hardware or software issue.
[20:51] <pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, might be work filing bugs, the scopes/dash is being tuned, as is app startup, but overall should not be poor
[20:51] <ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, there is definitely something wrong
[20:51] <bacteu> ogra_: android 4.4 runs pretty sweet on the n4
[20:51] <ogra_> bacteu, ubuntu touch too :)
[20:51] <dobey> n3tJ4ckr: software i'm sure. it's fast on my n7, when it doesn't freeze, as well
[20:51] <pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, if a crash occurs (which happens) it can get slow while apport runs
[20:52] <pmcgowan> assuming thats still enabled
[20:52] <bacteu> I guess I have to wait 2 years for the only ubuntu touch feature I ever wanted then
[20:52] <ogra_> right, when it starts retracing a crash it can get choppy
[20:52] <ogra_> but that means there was something crashing :)
[20:52] <ogra_> bacteu, i doubt that ... it will show up earlier
[20:53] <bacteu> last year everyone was saying it would appear in the 14.04 release :(
[20:53] <ogra_> nobody said that
[20:53] <n3tJ4ckr> Parts of it are smooth, but some of the native apps like 'system settings' are a bit slow
[20:53] <ogra_> people in forum comments did perhaps :)
[20:53] <pmcgowan> n3tJ4ckr, feedback could be better for sure
[20:54] <ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, agreed ...
[20:54] <n3tJ4ckr> Yeah definitely.
[20:54] <ogra_> n3tJ4ckr, the browser is nearly as fast as chromium on my N5 ...
[20:54] <ogra_> the shell UI is snappy too ...
[20:54] <bacteu> how did you get chromium on a n5?
[20:54] <ogra_> but yeah, apps still start to slow, some are acting slow
[20:55] <ogra_> bacteu, its the default browser on kitkat
[20:55] <bacteu> ogra_: oh.. chrome?
[20:55] <rymate1234> did you mean: chrome?
[20:55] <ogra_> yeah
[20:55] <ogra_> sorry :)
[20:55] <Tassadar> the aosp one is techinacally chromium)
[20:55] <bacteu> yeah
[20:55] <bacteu> they ditched the old aosp browser
[20:56] <bacteu> custom roms like cyanogenmod still ship the old aosp browser though
[21:10] <frecel>  I'm on 302 proposed now and I don't see any way to install click packages
[21:10] <cwayne> is there any way to modify the scope search timeout?
[21:14] <pmcgowan> frecel, just search for apps in the scope and select them
[21:17] <frecel> pmcgowan: I'm searching for karma machine and I get no results
[21:17] <frecel> the phone is connected to the internet
[21:18] <pmcgowan> frecel, I see it here, did you happen to disable internet dash search?
[21:20] <frecel> not that I know of
[21:20] <frecel> maybe someone pushed an update with it disabled by default
[21:20] <pmcgowan> frecel, should not be no
[21:20] <pmcgowan> frecel, to be sure check security/privacy in settings
[21:21] <pmcgowan> should say phone and internet
[21:21] <frecel> I think I just realized what the problem is
[21:21] <frecel> I reflashed my phone, I'm not logged in to U1
[21:21] <pmcgowan> frecel, it should still show you the apps, then prompt you later to sign in
[21:22] <pmcgowan> to download you will need to sign in though
[21:23] <dobey> indeed
[21:23] <dobey> what pmcgowan said is true
[21:23] <frecel> everything checks out in the privacy settings
[21:24] <dobey> frecel: if you search for an installed app (like calendar or terminal) does it show results?
[21:24] <frecel> dobey: yes
[21:24] <dobey> hmm
[21:24] <pmcgowan> frecel, can you double check your internet, use the browser
[21:25] <frecel> pmcgowan: did that before I asked for help here, internet works
[21:25] <dobey> frecel: are you on 3g or wifi?
[21:28] <dobey> frecel: you can use adb shell, and check in ~phablet/.cache/upstart/scope-registry.log to see if there are any messages about host not found or such in the log. it could be a DNS issue or something perhaps
[21:32] <frecel> host not found
[21:32] <frecel> odd since the browser works
[21:35] <dobey> yeah. i have no idea why it would happen though; or how to debug and figure out why
[21:35] <dobey> it should work
[21:36] <dobey> i think because the dash does a search before your network comes up, it fails then, and then the failure gets cached somehow
[21:36] <frecel> I can ping stuff from shell and it works
[21:37] <dobey> if you resolve search.apps.ubuntu.com with ping or in the browser or something, then go back to the dash, switch to the scopes scope or music scope, then back to the apps scope, then do a search again, does it work?
[21:40] <Saeed> Hi
[21:40] <Saeed> May I know who is here to assist me ?
[21:46] <dobey> ask, don't ask to ask
[21:47] <Saeed> I have a problem using Ubuntu
[21:47] <Saeed> Can someone help here?
[22:01] <Graknol> Is this the place to talk about ubuntu for android, or is this ubuntu touch only?
[22:03] <krul> congratz all with new release
[23:15] <frecel> can someone with r302 on nexus 4 test something for me?
[23:25] <frecel> anyone?
[23:34] <echoe> oh well
[23:34] <echoe> i'm going to reflash my nexus 4, bleh.
[23:35] <colonelqubit> echoe: So it says GSM support, calls and sms
[23:35] <colonelqubit> I'm interested to know how stable all of that is...
[23:35] <echoe> oh wait, it finally detected the 302 update! wooooooooooo
[23:36] <echoe> colonelqubit: my nexus 4 is not my main phone and as such has no sim :(
[23:36] <colonelqubit> ah, too bad
[23:36] <echoe> but perhaps i should buy one at a t-mobile or walgreens or something just to test. like $10 of minutes or something
[23:37] <colonelqubit> Yeah, that would be slick
[23:38] <colonelqubit> I wish I could get a cloned card for my account and then have some kind of secure web interface where I could switch between them
[23:38] <echoe> for sure
[23:38] <echoe> that'd be really nice. :)
[23:39] <colonelqubit> be helpful for testing hardware without disassembling everything to get at the SIM cards
[23:41] <colonelqubit> Is anyone here using Ubuntu Touch as their primary phone OS?
[23:58] <ogra_> colonelqubit, a bunch of people do, yeah