[00:01] <jose> infinity: just so you know, voice will be automatically added when people re-join the channel, it's an automagic feature
[00:01] <infinity> jose: I know.  I don't have the chanserv permissions to fix that.
[00:01] <jose> ok then :)
[00:01] <infinity> I'll let Colin deal with it later.
[00:22] <saiarcot895> Is it true that upgrading from 12.04 to 14.04 is not possible yet?
[00:23] <infinity> saiarcot895: lts->lts upgrades are only turned on after the first point release.
[00:23] <ogra_> you can upgrade ...
[00:23] <ogra_> it isnt offered automatically yet
[00:24] <saiarcot895> ah, ok
[00:24] <wgrant> The release announcement even says that :)
[00:25] <wgrant> LTS upgrades are enabled after the first point release, usually around three months later.
[00:25] <ogra_> yeah, but who reads that
[00:25] <ogra_> if infinity had just mailed "It's out dudes !!!" that would have been enough :)
[00:26] <infinity> I'll keep that in mind for next time.
[00:26] <ogra_> heh
[00:27] <Thedemon007> i have problem with chromium of 12.04, no played youtube videos say undefined errror :S
[00:28] <ogra_> Thedemon007, general support is in #ubuntu
[00:28] <saiarcot895> Thedemon007: 12.04 or 14.04?
[00:29] <Thedemon007> 12.04
[00:29] <infinity> saiarcot895 / Thedemon007: Please take it to #ubuntu
[00:29] <Thedemon007> ok
[00:33] <Thedemon007>  i add a debdiff for update the package xserver-xorg-video-openchrome-lts-saucy in the bug #1205643 .. I guessed before that this is automatically updated to be updated package saucy. But apparently not the case :S
[00:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1205643 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome-lts-saucy (Ubuntu) "VIA P4M800 graphics broken in Lubuntu/Xubuntu Saucy & 12.04.4 candidate" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1205643
[00:37] <michagogo|cloud> Hm, how come the LTS point release comes out after approximately 3 months?
[00:38] <michagogo|cloud> In other words, why is it getting a point release when it's the latest release, and non-LTS don't get point releases?
[00:41] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: Because only LTSes get point releases.
[00:42] <michagogo|cloud> Um, I realize that
[00:42] <michagogo|cloud> I'm wondering about the reasoning there -- why does an LTS need a point release when a non-LTS is fine the same 3 months after release?
[00:43] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: LTSes get several point releases, that's just how we do things.  It's part of making them supportable for 5 years.
[00:44] <michagogo|cloud> What's different about them that they need a PR in under 6m though?
[00:45] <michagogo|cloud> Meh, nvm
[00:45] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: What's different about them is that they get point releases.  I suspect you'll find this becomes a circular argument very quickly. :P
[00:46] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: If you're insinuating that the point releases somehow mean the LTSes are broken, that's certainly not the case.  It's that we put a lot more effort into making them supportable for the long term we've committed to.
[00:46] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: Which includes spinning new installer ISOs, polishing the upgrade processes as much as we can, etc, etc.
[00:48] <michagogo|cloud> Ah, I see -- so because the image isn't going to be considered obsolete 3 months later, it's worth the effort to come out with new and improved images?
[00:49] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: Something like that, yes.
[00:50] <infinity> michagogo|cloud: As for the timing of the first, there are two reason.  The point releases are every 6 months and staggered against regular releases so they don't collide.  And the first one is in 3mo instead of 9mo because we use that 3mo to make sure it's as polished as possible before turning on lts->lts automatic upgrades.
[00:50] <michagogo|cloud> Ahhhhhh.
[00:51] <michagogo|cloud> Okay, I missed the staggering part :-)
[00:51] <michagogo|cloud> Sorry to bother you, thanks for helping me understand
[01:17] <superm1> infinity: between tgm4883 myself and popey we gave a few times over on the mythbuntu ISO's and things look good now
[01:51] <infinity> superm1: Alright, I'll push those out and call it done, then.
[01:54] <infinity> superm1: Done, and pushing out to mirrors.
[01:59] <superm1> Thanks
[09:08] <john1999> I got 1 question about ubuntu 14.04 (I hope I'm not bothering)
[09:08] <john1999> why does it use /etc/X11/XF86Config instead of /etc/X11/xorg.conf (is it a newer version or a mistake?)
[13:12] <ScottK> When it gets to be time to work on toolchain for "U", doko asked me to set up ruby2.1 as default Ruby.  Please let me know when I can sync ruby2.1 from Debian.
[13:12] <infinity> ScottK: When Mark says so.
[13:12] <ScottK> I know we're waiting on that, but I'd imagined it'd be a bit after before the archive was set up.
[13:14] <infinity> ScottK: Not much time, really.  We're just not sure when that time will happen.
[13:14] <ScottK> OK.
[13:14] <infinity> ScottK: Maybe this is a subtle attempt to force everyone to back away from their computers and play outside for the weekend.
[13:14] <ScottK> Maybe.
[13:20] <Laney> Seems to be working well
[13:21] <infinity> Laney: Well, I got to sleep in, so that's something.
[13:26] <Laney> Yeah, I have been playing outside, to be fair
[13:27] <Laney> Now I'm off to the seaside. Tara.
[13:32] <rtg> infinity, the weather in London looks reasonably nice. maybe you should be finding a pub with a view.
[13:33] <infinity> rtg: It's been nice all week, actually.
[13:34] <rtg> what little you've seen of it ?
[13:42] <xnox> rtg: we did take a stroll by the thames a least once every day, more or less.
[14:39] <bdmurray> infinity: I was looking at the release announcement and noticed that it says "Users of Ubuntu 12.10 ... will be offered an automatic upgrade to 14.04" - I'm fairly certain this isn't the case.
[14:43] <infinity> bdmurray: It was what we intended to happen.  Did we not actually make that happen?
[14:43] <infinity> :/
[14:43] <infinity> bdmurray: Or are we doing 12.10->13.10->14.04?
[14:43] <bdmurray> infinity: No, we made upgrades from 12.10 to 13.10 happen because 12.10 went EoL before 14.04
[14:44] <bdmurray> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/core-1311-lts-upgrade-testing
[14:45] <infinity> bdmurray: Dangit.  I think maybe I argued for 12.10->14.04 and it didn't happen.  Oh well.  Release announcements can be wrong.
[14:45] <infinity> bdmurray: And, to be fair, if 12.10->13.10 has been working for a while, people who do automatic upgrades won't be on 12.10 anymore to notice I was wrong. ;)
[14:45] <bdmurray> infinity: Well to be fair you are right and 12.10 to 14.04 was the original plan
[14:46] <bdmurray> Anyway, about that whoopsie SRU and getting it release early...
[14:46] <jose> news team, if you want to modify it I can discuss if it's possible to edit the announcement post we have on the fridge
[14:46] <infinity> bdmurray: In theory, given that we support P->T and Q->S, Q->T probably Just Works anyway, but it would take some testing before we could just flip the bit, so maybe not worth trying.
[14:47] <infinity> bdmurray: Right, lemme look at that whoopsie.
[14:48] <infinity> bdmurray: Also, for 14.04 through 16.04, I think we should be heavily testing 14.04->* and *->16.04, which makes 14.04->16.04 trivial.  Cleaning up lts->lts messes post release is a silly thing.
[14:56] <knome> good idea
[14:56] <knome> is the infrastructure ready for that?
[14:56] <infinity> It certainly is for Ubuntu.  I'd like to scale it out to provide upgrade testing for all flavours, not sure how much of that we do currently.
[14:57] <infinity> I know we do some installer testing for flavours at least, and maybe some upgrade stuff.
[14:58] <knome> right, i was thinking manual testing :)
[15:01] <infinity> Manual testing is really all about the people having time.  Sky's the limit on what you can achieve if you have the motivation and the lack of other things to do. :P
[15:02] <knome> yes, but it must be possible first
[15:02] <knome> i wouldn't imagine we would do loads of test, but we might use that for some configuration migration smoketests etc. here and there
[15:03] <knome> so if non-supported release path upgrades are possible... i'd like to know how :)
[15:04] <infinity> knome: Oh, I see what you mean, as in being able to trigger do-release-upgrade to pick an arbitrary target instead of what meta-release says, for instance.
[15:04] <knome> yep
[15:04] <infinity> So, I think the "eaisest" way to do that right now would actually just be to MitM changelogs.ubuntu.com
[15:04] <infinity> But I think we can come up with a more elegant solution. :)
[15:04] <knome> yep... i'm sure :)
[15:06] <bdmurray> it's not actually meta-release that requires changes but the dist-upgrader tarball which meta-release points to
[15:07] <bdmurray> so you could modify the release-upgrader tarball on disk and not worry about meta-release
[15:08] <knome> right...
[15:08] <infinity> Ahh, fair point.
[15:12] <knome> but anyway... i wouldn't mind more automated testing either
[15:13] <knome> what do the automated tests output currently, and would it be possible to make them save certain files after upgrades or something?
[15:14] <infinity> bdmurray: I assume you don't care about the quantal one here...
[15:14] <bdmurray> infinity: right, we'll stop accepting uploads from it next week(?) when it goes EoL
[15:19] <jibel> knome, https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Upgrade/ we than stdout, the content of /var/log/dist-upgrade and the results of the post-upgrade tests
[15:20] <jibel> (everything is red today because the machine on which they run went AWOL)
[15:21] <knome> jibel, mhm, would it be possible to expand that list for a specific flavor test?
[15:22] <infinity> jibel: It's a long weekend, it's probably spending time with family.
[15:22]  * elfy read all that knome - and agrees with more automated testing 
[15:24] <elfy> frankly the more we can automate for images the better given we're having such a hard time with autopilot and packages
[15:24] <jibel> infinity, that or someone turned it off before leaving for easter
[15:25] <jibel> knome, yes it's possible, it's fairly easy to add a profile, the project is lp:auto-upgrade-testing , although we are limited by the capacity of the lab
[15:25] <knome> elfy, right, and if we can get meaningful output from the tests, we can actually benefit more from them... consider if we got some information on how config files appear after upgrade
[15:26] <knome> elfy, we could practically make sure they aren't broken on upgrades
[15:26] <elfy> yep
[15:26]  * elfy needs to spend some time with the jenkins reports for the other tests we have - I do have links
[16:40] <bdmurray> I can't accept things into trusty-proposed
[16:40] <bdmurray> (<PackageUpload at 0x2b6eb456a250>, 'acceptFromQueue', 'launchpad.Edit')
[16:40] <bdmurray> I got a 401: Unauthorized
[16:46] <bdmurray> stgraber: is that something you can help with?
[17:04] <infinity> bdmurray: I'll sort that.
[17:05] <stgraber> bdmurray: ah yeah, we need to do the post-release edit-acl
[17:06] <infinity> bdmurray: Should be fixed.
[17:06] <infinity> stgraber: ^
[17:08] <bdmurray> infinity: thanks