[10:56] <cmaloney> blergh
[10:56] <cmaloney> I mean, good morning
[11:20] <rick_h_> ugh sounds good to me
[11:21] <cmaloney> yeah, this is first day back since Pycon
[11:22] <cmaloney> and have exterminators coming in to see if there's anything in the traps
[11:22] <cmaloney> fun fun
[11:22] <rick_h_> wheeee
[11:22] <rick_h_> and GSoC day
[11:22] <cmaloney> Yeah
[11:22] <rick_h_> going to be a lot of explainin to do
[11:22] <rick_h_> nodeman is going to br crushed
[11:23] <cmaloney> Yeah, I know
[11:44] <mrgoodcat> You know who you got then?
[11:49] <rick_h_> yea, we picked two and they weren't duped
[11:49] <rick_h_> so unless someone backs out we should be set with our two
[11:56] <mrgoodcat> Duped?
[12:06] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: matches in multiple projects
[12:08] <mrgoodcat> Who did you get? Or should I wait for announce?
[12:09] <rick_h_> yea, we're not allowed to say anything until the announcement
[12:15] <cmaloney> When is that supposed to happen?
[12:17] <brousch> I think today 3pm our time?
[12:20] <rick_h_> brousch: yea, it said noon, but wasn't sure what noon that was
[12:22] <brousch> I think all the other stuff has been pacific time
[12:29] <mrgoodcat> ~timezones~
[12:36] <mrgoodcat> how was everybody's easter?
[12:36] <mrgoodcat> survive the families?
[12:37] <brousch> I got sun on my face
[12:38] <cmaloney> Easter was OK. Had the family over.
[12:38] <cmaloney> Ate too much and wanted to sleep midway through
[12:39] <brousch> Yeah, I felt awful from too much fatty food and candy last night. Rode the exercise bike this morning and am feeling much better
[12:41] <cmaloney> I stayed away from the candy.
[12:41] <cmaloney> The beer however was another story. :)
[12:42] <mrgoodcat> I did a pretty good job not eating too much bad stuff...
[12:42] <mrgoodcat> i went mountain biking early in the day so i felt pretty good around dinner time
[12:43] <cmaloney> "pretty good" only works with horseshoes, hand-grenades and Windows Programming.
[12:44] <mrgoodcat> lol windows programming
[12:44] <mrgoodcat> how do I POSIX
[12:45] <mrgoodcat> node takes FOREVER to build on a chromebook
[12:45] <mrgoodcat> I don't like waiting
[12:47] <cmaloney> Well, I don't think compiling software is part of Chromebook's core competencies. :)
[12:47] <cmaloney> to be fair. :)
[12:52] <brousch> It's Gentoo!
[12:57] <mrgoodcat> lol
[13:28] <mrgoodcat> Anybody here use keybase?
[13:46] <mrgoodcat> actually, aside from keybase, does anybody here use gpg regularly?
[13:46] <cmaloney> I use it for password file encryption regularly
[13:46] <cmaloney> what's up?
[13:46] <mrgoodcat> other than encrypting things for my personal use (eg backups and such) I can't think of too many things I'd want to encrypt or sign
[13:47] <mrgoodcat> I'm trying to figure out what the use case is that would make this useful to me
[13:47] <mrgoodcat> I love the idea, but I'm not sure where it fits into my life
[13:47] <cmaloney> One use would be for sending sensitive documents (PDF) via email
[13:48] <cmaloney> rather than via fax or some other means.
[13:48] <cmaloney> (assuming encryption experience on the other end)
[13:49] <mrgoodcat> that's the part that is a pain
[13:49] <cmaloney> Another use would be fore ensuring that your mail hasn't been tampered with
[13:49] <cmaloney> (signing)
[13:49] <mrgoodcat> I would love to encrypt and sign messages, but it seems like it would almost never be worth the trouble on the other end
[13:49] <cmaloney> Depends on the audience
[13:49] <mrgoodcat> I don't want to inconvenience my boss, or coworkers, or a client for that matter
[13:50] <cmaloney> If it's a note to my mom asking her to pick up cat food for the cat while we're away then it's likely not worth the effort
[13:50] <mrgoodcat> haha
[13:50] <mrgoodcat> no not likely
[13:50] <mrgoodcat> especially since a GPG message would just be greek to my mom anyways
[13:50] <cmaloney> Signing is pretty transparent if it's not supported
[13:50] <cmaloney> encryption notsomuch. :)
[13:50] <mrgoodcat> signing i guess
[13:51] <mrgoodcat> I've seen signatures used in mailing lists quite a bit
[13:51] <mrgoodcat> but i've never once felt the need to verify a signature
[13:51] <cmaloney> yeah, I guess if you're paranoid that folks are taking your mail and messing with it signing makes sense
[13:52] <mrgoodcat> it seems like a tool for paranoid people
[13:52] <mrgoodcat> and making secure backupgs
[13:52] <cmaloney> but I've never felt the need and feel if someone will take me out of context they'll do so signed email or not.
[13:52] <mrgoodcat> wow spelling
[13:52] <cmaloney> well, the Snowden revelations are giving me pause.
[13:55] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: seems like every time i log on to g+ I see a picture of your wine
[13:55] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: must mean you've got good timing :)
[13:58] <cmaloney> Or you have him in a Friends circle which I believe has precedence.
[13:59] <rick_h_> woot! I win!
[14:00] <brousch> strange. I never see his wine
[14:00] <cmaloney> brousch: You need to untick the "mute all posts from rick_h_ " box
[14:01] <brousch> Rick Harding Works at Morpace Inc Lives in Michigan
[14:01] <cmaloney> Old profile
[14:01] <rick_h_> brousch: heh yea, you need rharding@mitechie.com profile
[14:02] <brousch> I have both of them
[14:02] <brousch> weird
[14:03] <brousch> Maybe G+ is getting as bad as FB
[14:04] <brousch> I unfriended the morpace rick_h, and now I see wine
[14:04] <rick_h_> well there you go, guess your feed can only handle so much rick
[14:05] <brousch> Safety feature to keep it below a certain threshold of awesome
[14:06] <mrgoodcat> lol
[14:08] <brousch> You all get rooms at the Blackwell for PyOhio?
[14:09] <mrgoodcat> why the blackwell?
[14:10] <rick_h_> easy walking distance to the union, others are there, and it's a really nice hotel with an omlette bar for breakfast
[14:10] <brousch> They always stay at the Blackwell, but rooms are short there this year
[14:10] <brousch> We'll be at the secondary hotel this year
[14:11] <mrgoodcat> I wasn't even planning on going?
[14:11] <mrgoodcat> any compelling reason i should?
[14:11] <rick_h_> it's an awesome small python conference
[14:11] <brousch> Varsity Inn South
[14:11] <rick_h_> good open spaces, smart folks, and it's free to attend
[14:12] <rick_h_> but I won't be there this year :(
[14:12] <brousch> wat?
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> the schedule is pretty sparse... http://www.pyohio.org/schedule/talks/list/
[14:12] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/MRI4og - PyOhio | Accepted Talks
[14:12] <rick_h_> I have to travel for work that weekend
[14:12] <brousch> mrgoodcat: They are still in request for talks phase
[14:12] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: call for proposals is ongoing now
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> got it
[14:12] <mrgoodcat> anywhere i can see proposals? or are they not public?
[14:12] <brousch> Not public
[14:13] <rick_h_> http://www.pyvideo.org/category go to pyohio
[14:13] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/LOQIO2 - pyvideo.org - Categories
[14:13] <brousch> Though you could volunteer as a reviewer/selector. It was about 4 hours of work last year
[14:13] <brousch> Then fighting over talks was another 2 hour IRC meeting
[14:13] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: you can even see a few talks from me and brousch in there
[14:13] <mrgoodcat> cool :)
[14:13] <rick_h_> cmaloney: have you done one? I thought you did one but am not recalling
[14:13] <mrgoodcat> so you're obviously pretty involved
[14:14] <mrgoodcat> how is attendance usually?
[14:14] <brousch> rick_h_: No. He is a slacker
[14:14] <rick_h_> cmaloney: and I went to the first one that was some 50 people in a library room
[14:14] <rick_h_> mrgoodcat: so we're fans. It helped me get into python
[14:14] <brousch> mrgoodcat: I want to say 275
[14:14] <rick_h_> brousch: boooo. We'll have to make him go
[14:14] <rick_h_> brousch: mrgoodcat they were over 350 I thought last year?
[14:14] <brousch> Could be
[14:14] <mrgoodcat> wow
[14:14] <mrgoodcat> nice turnout
[14:15] <brousch> 302 last year
[14:15] <rick_h_> Attendee growth from 150 developers in 2010 to 350 in 2013.
[14:15] <rick_h_> per the sponsor prospectus
[14:15] <cmaloney> rick_h_: A PyOhio talk? I've only volunteered
[14:15] <brousch> Hm, the email from Costlow says verified 302
[14:15] <mrgoodcat> "in and around Ohio and the entire midwest"
[14:16] <rick_h_> cmaloney: gotcha, I kept thinking you did some pygame something or other but mixing up mug/etc
[14:16] <mrgoodcat> what does that even mean? the conference isn't in a single location?
[14:16] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I've convinced several of JoDee's friends to go
[14:16] <cmaloney> rick_h_: Yeah, I've only done Pygame talks at Penguicon and MUG
[14:16] <cmaloney> not at PyOhio
[14:16] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: It means the conference draws from many states, not just Ohio
[14:16] <mrgoodcat> got it
[14:17] <mrgoodcat> i'm having a hard time figuring out where this thing even is
[14:17] <mrgoodcat> columbus?
[14:17] <rick_h_> yea, right on campus
[14:18] <brousch> Hm, I thought they said Varsity Inn south was walkable, but it's really far
[14:18] <rick_h_> < 1mi?
[14:18] <rick_h_> that's kind of my 'walkable' limit
[14:18] <rick_h_> after 1mi it's a hike
[14:18] <rick_h_> though cmaloney and I did some hiking for chicken in montreal lol
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> I walked 6mi from my hotel to dinner in Ft Lauderdale
[14:19] <rick_h_> needs a big dinner for that one
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> lol
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> actually dinner was really good
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> i was not disappointed
[14:19] <mrgoodcat> and a saw the bat yacht so that was cool
[14:20] <brousch> 1.7 miles
[14:20] <cmaloney> rick_h_ and I always manage some excursion to far-away lands on our trips. :)
[14:21] <brousch> I guess that's a 30 minute brisk walk
[14:22] <brousch> You get free parking if you're speaker, so I'm sure we'll be lazy
[14:23] <brousch> http://goo.gl/maps/YeMoj
[14:23] <bookiebot> Varsity Inn OSU South to Ohio Union- The Ohio State University - Google Maps
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> brousch: you doing a talk this year?
[14:26] <brousch> Maybe'
[14:27] <brousch> Some pieces are coming together for a good follow-up talk to last year's
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> what was last years?
[14:28] <brousch> http://www.pyvideo.org/video/2259/kivy-creating-desktop-and-mobile-apps-with-pyth
[14:28] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/CIDMBH - pyvideo.org - Kivy - Creating Desktop and Mobile Apps with Python
[14:28] <brousch> 2 hour tutorial
[14:30] <brousch> One of the new projects I introduce at the end has matured well, and there's a project that makes it a lot easier to compile APKS now, and both of those projects have GSoC students this year
[14:31] <brousch> So they should improve quite a bit
[14:33] <mrgoodcat> cool :)
[14:35] <brousch> One of my goals with Kivy was to make Android apps on Android using Python so kids whose only computer is a tablet could do so. However there has been a noticable shift in the market from tablets in schools to Chromebooks, so I'm not as gung-ho for that
[14:37] <rick_h_> the web will always win, eventually
[14:38] <brousch> That is a good thing
[14:39] <mrgoodcat> and development in web browsers has become pretty good actually
[14:39] <mrgoodcat> I was amazed how easy dev was on my chromebook
[14:39] <mrgoodcat> granted, i still put ubuntu on it
[14:39] <mrgoodcat> no web application can beat vim yet :)
[14:47] <brousch> You use a browser IDE?
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> i tried a few
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> they were....
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> better than expected
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> but most of them are paid services that run your app on a low-spec VM
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> so since vim and localhost are free linux won that battle
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> some of them have heroku integration though. so you can deploy right from the web interface which is kinda cool
[15:00] <brousch> Yeah, that's what I found too
[15:01] <brousch> I've only done vim over ssh to a remote server so far
[15:03] <mrgoodcat> that's my preferred workflow
[15:03] <mrgoodcat> sometimes localhost
[15:04] <brousch> What's the next step up from Scratch?
[15:04] <mrgoodcat> snap?
[15:05] <mrgoodcat> it was originally a scratch mod with lambdas, first class data, procedures, recursion
[15:05] <mrgoodcat> but now it's been rewritten in javascript an they no longer consider themselves a scratch mod but rather a totally separate project
[15:06] <brousch> Good find!
[15:06] <mrgoodcat> http://snap.berkeley.edu/
[15:06] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/s26Lr1 - SNAP! (Build Your Own Blocks)
[15:06] <brousch> That gets me through the next few years of teaching my son
[15:06] <mrgoodcat> after that i'd say the next step might be a real high level programming language
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> python, ruby, [insert easy programming language here]
[15:07] <brousch> right
[15:07] <brousch> Python
[15:07] <brousch> But that looks like a good in between
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> here is the original scratch mod http://wiki.scratch.mit.edu/wiki/Build_Your_Own_Blocks_(Scratch_Modification)
[15:08] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/KuEiok - Build Your Own Blocks (Scratch Modification) - Scratch Wiki
[15:09] <mrgoodcat> cool that it runs entirely in browser http://snap.berkeley.edu/snapsource/snap.html
[15:09] <bookiebot> http://is.gd/5u7UHn - Snap! Build Your Own Blocks. Beta
[15:10] <brousch> Yeah, with chromebooks doing it all in browser is important
[15:11] <brousch> Until kids are mature enough to use ssh and vim ;)
[15:11] <greg-g> brousch: start 'em on the command line first
[15:11] <mrgoodcat> that's a theory i've heard a lot
[15:11] <greg-g> who was it, one of the dads on planet debian did that
[15:12] <mrgoodcat> work from the bottom up
[15:12] <greg-g> it worked pretty well for him/his son
[15:12] <greg-g> john goerzen?
[15:12] <mrgoodcat> it's the same idea as learning c as a first programming language
[15:12] <greg-g> can't remember
[15:12] <brousch> I'd need to take away his chromebook
[15:12] <brousch> This would not go over well
[15:12] <mrgoodcat> chromebook does ssh
[15:12] <greg-g> yeah, once you go gui....
[15:13] <mrgoodcat> ctrl+alt+t
[15:13] <rick_h_> it takes you years to find your mistake and go back to no gui :P
[15:13] <mrgoodcat> ssh me@awesomeserver.com
[15:13] <greg-g> rick_h_: :)
[15:14] <mrgoodcat> brousch: what model chromebook is it?
[15:14] <brousch> c720
[15:14] <brousch> 4GB model
[15:16] <mrgoodcat> i have the c720. I've found it to be a pretty capable machine
[15:16] <mrgoodcat> i the c720P actually
[15:19] <brousch> Yeah, I like them
[15:24] <mrgoodcat> brousch: what is your goal? are you trying to teach him more about how the computer actually works or just to think like a programmer?
[15:25] <brousch> Programming right now. Scratch seems perfect. Once he has some scratch experience, we can work on the Rpi with it too
[15:28] <mrgoodcat> but more fundamentally than that, is it the logic structure? or the analytic skills? or something else?
[15:28] <mrgoodcat> there's some motivation behind it i assume?
[15:29] <brousch> I think it's an important skill to learn, and the schools do a rotten job of it
[15:30] <mrgoodcat> yea my school's programming class was a joke
[15:30] <mrgoodcat> HTML is not programming....
[15:30] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: wait, WHAAAAT?
[15:30] <mrgoodcat> unfortunately, my parents weren't great with computers either
[15:31] <mrgoodcat> so i was pretty much all self taught until college
[15:31] <mrgoodcat> actually, i still consider myself mostly self taught
[15:31] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I taught myself computers as well up until high-school / college
[15:31] <mrgoodcat> most of what school did was point out the things i don't know so i could research them on my own later
[15:31] <cmaloney> and yes, I learned the fundamentals in school but my day-to-day stuff is mostly self-taught
[15:32] <mrgoodcat> even college did a pretty meh job of actually teaching
[15:32] <mrgoodcat> they never go in depth enough
[15:33] <cmaloney> Well, to be fair, I wasn't ready for a lot of things they tried to teach me
[15:33] <mrgoodcat> most of the alg/struct teaching consisted of "this thing A exists", "here is an implementation in Java of A", "Please memorize the time/space complexity of A", "on to thing B"
[15:33] <cmaloney> That's not teaching, that's asking you to memorize wikipedia
[15:34] <mrgoodcat> yerp
[15:34] <cmaloney> I hate that
[15:34] <mrgoodcat> even in my college classes i had to pretty much teach myself
[15:34] <cmaloney> Like memorizing hte periodic table
[15:35] <cmaloney> I challenge you to find a chemestry classroom that doesn't have a periodic table prominently displayed
[15:35] <brousch> In the end, you have to teach yourself
[15:35] <brousch> We cannot cram knowledge into brains yet
[15:36] <cmaloney> Well, and there's a difference between knowledge and trivia
[15:36] <cmaloney> knowing what an atomic number and how it relates to chemical process is knowledge
[15:37] <cmaloney> knowing the atomic number of Krypton is trivia
[18:28] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: i made lastfm function ignore #bookie
[18:28] <mrgoodcat> sorry i know how spammy bots can become when you get carried away
[18:29] <rick_h_> sorry, I live in irc all day and am old school so hate the busyness sometimes
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> that's fine
[18:29] <mrgoodcat> any of the other functions you want ignored in #bookie?
[18:29] <cmaloney> .np
[18:30] <cmaloney> nuts
[18:30] <cmaloney> :)
[18:30] <mrgoodcat> cmaloney: you have to use your username
[18:33] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoh
[18:33] <cmaloney> .np squeekyhoho
[18:33] <bookiebot> squeekyhoho's last track - Solsagan by Finntroll on Nifelvind [21 Apr 2014, 17:56]
[18:33] <cmaloney> Oh, nice .:)
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_ didn't like that function in #bookie
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> i think he's trying to keep botspam down
[18:33] <cmaloney> rick_h_ is a fuddy-duddy. :)
[18:33] <mrgoodcat> i just made that function ignore #bookie
[18:33] <cmaloney> (Yeah, that can get a little annoying)
[18:34] <mrgoodcat> i do realize i've gotten a little carried away with adding functionality too
[18:34] <mrgoodcat> esp. since most is useless really
[18:37] <mrgoodcat> the lastfm app scrobbles the google music app, which apparently is used for android sounds
[18:37] <mrgoodcat> so i get my notifications in my scrobble list
[18:38] <mrgoodcat> sometimes... apparently not all the time
[18:44] <mrgoodcat> i just left like 20 channels on 3 servers. my channel list was getting too long
[18:46] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: you should see the WMU computer club channel. i think we might have more bots than humans
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> top artist of all time on last.fm is coldplay.... wat?
[19:34] <cmaloney> Wee
[19:35] <cmaloney> Apparently we got two rodents
[19:35] <cmaloney> and one of them was further along down the decomposition path than the other one
[19:38] <brousch> lovely
[19:38] <brousch> For a second I thought you were talking about the gsoc students
[19:39] <cmaloney> har har
[19:59] <brousch> I feel bad for rejected gsoc students
[20:03] <cmaloney> me too
[20:03] <cmaloney> I'm in conversation with one at the moment who feels like we lead him on
[20:06] <brousch> We have a butthurt one in #kivy too
[20:06] <brousch> Is there a nicer word for butthurt?
[20:07] <brousch> I know greg-g will not approve of that
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> lol
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> aggravated?
[20:10] <brousch> disgruntled maybe
[20:10] <brousch> I'll go with disgruntled
[20:10] <mrgoodcat> it makes sense that some people will be upset
[20:22] <cmaloney> Yeah, and it's hard
[20:22] <cmaloney> we had several folks put in some serious efort
[20:22] <cmaloney> And under different circumstances they'd be celebrating tonight
[20:26] <rick_h_> yea, it's just darn tough.
[20:27] <rick_h_> you try to be supportive but they think you've milked them for their time
[20:27] <rick_h_> one guy in #gsoc was pissed and ranted against OSS and rage quit
[20:28] <brousch> just one?
[20:28] <brousch> Hm, yeah, that has to be a crazy channel today
[20:28] <rick_h_> well one I saw
[20:28] <rick_h_> One guy I think quit but he's quiet and so he just left
[20:29] <rick_h_> the other wanted to know what place he was in, who was ahead of him, and wants to compare commits and such
[20:29] <brousch> Your selection was highly competitive just because of the number of proposals and slots
[20:30] <brousch> We rejected half of our proposals
[20:30] <rick_h_> yea, I'd say half of ours were no go at all
[20:30] <brousch> We had 4 slots for 6 proposals
[20:30] <rick_h_> but the other half were all usable
[20:30] <rick_h_> you had 6 proposals?
[20:30] <cmaloney> yeah, and had we had 5-6 slots we'd have easily filled them.
[20:30] <rick_h_> wow
[20:30] <brousch> So we accepted 3 and gave back 1 slot
[20:31] <rick_h_> wow, ok I feel crazy now
[20:31] <cmaloney> Had we had another mentor we would have easily filled another slot
[20:31] <brousch> It is totally crazy
[20:31] <cmaloney> Wonder if being under teh PSF was not the best move
[20:33] <brousch> It was an extra hoop for students to jump through
[20:34] <brousch> the PSF gave back 3 slots to the pool, I think
[23:15] <mrgoodcat> Lots of people quit #bookie
[23:16] <greg-g> awwww
[23:19] <mrgoodcat> I get a join part quit synopsis in my client
[23:22] <mrgoodcat> 9 quit 1 joined then quit
[23:23] <mrgoodcat> Most names I didn't recognize though
[23:26] <cmaloney> mrgoodcat: I think that's to be expected
[23:27] <mrgoodcat> Yea but still would have been nice to see them stay. Maybe now that rick_h_ won't be as swamped I'll try to get into some bookie code