bdmurrayif somebody could review ubuntu-release-upgrader in saucy-proposed that would be great00:15
RAOFbdmurray: Sure.00:21
bluesabrewelcome Logan_ :)00:58
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bdmurrayRAOF: thanks01:17
med_gaughen, are cloud-images painfully slow to load for everyone tonight?03:02
med_kirkland, ^03:02
ScottKWho knows phased updates well enough to know how it deals with a large set of packages released together?03:29
infinityScottK: That's going to be mostly up to the package manager, but if they're all interdependent, the answer is probably "not very well".03:30
infinityScottK: Since you might get half of them randomly wanting to upgrade, and half of them not, and then python-apt (or whatever backend your upgrader uses) will tell you where to go and how to get there, and you get no upgrades at all until they all phase in.03:31
infinityScottK: Or, that's pretty much how I assume it would work out.03:31
infinitybdmurray: ^03:31
infinityOh, though, it might be more clever than that, come to think of it.03:32
infinitySince apt (and python-apt) don't actually give a crap about phase, it's only the high-level manager that uses it to "show" the upgrades to you.03:33
infinitySo, if you show half of them, then do dependency resolution, you'd get the other half...03:33
infinitySo, maybe you'd just get everything phasing much more quickly than expected, rather than the inverse...03:33
infinityDefinitely worth some closer investigation.03:33
xnoxScottK: the more packages depend on each other, the slower the phasing needs to be, since a phasing match on any higher level packages pulls in libcore, et.al. And i believe update-notifier / update-manager is the only one that looks at phasing.03:38
xnoxapt-get dist-upgrade will just pull in everything.03:38
xnoxScottK: but bdmurray is the one you should probably talk to.03:38
* ScottK is imagining the KDE point releases being unpleasant.03:39
infinityScottK: It might be that the point release would be a special case where you'd just want to override the phasing to 100% for all of it, so it doesn't come in weird pieces.03:40
ScottKSince it's just bugfix stuff, it's mostly not driven by dependency and if you phase in a set of say 70 packages in over a few days, I think it'll be never ending updates for the lucky ones that draw the early update.03:40
infinityProbably worth adding a --no-phase switch to sru-release.03:41
infinityOr --initial-phase, so it's more generically useful.03:42
infinityJust --phase, I guess.  We don't like typing.03:42
ScottKIt doesn't affect Kubuntu now since muon-updater doesn't know about phasing, but I don't think that's the only place it's relevant.03:42
infinitySo --phase=100 would just not set it at all (which is the same thing), no phase would default to 10, and you could alternately twiddle different initial options.03:43
infinityThe other obvious interdependent mess is the kernel, but since I've never had a complaint, I assume xnox's analysis (and my second scenario) are correct.03:43
infinitySo, once linux-meta phases in, you just get the whole mess at once.03:44
infinityAnd the phasing of the other packages would be meaningless.03:44
ScottKwhat about openstack point releases?03:44
infinityI really hope they version their depends correctly when they need to.03:45
infinityBut they tend to do piecemeal updates of the components, not one massive dump.03:45
infinitySo, I'd assume deps are correct when they have to be, and otherwise things are backward compat.03:45
xnoxScottK: server has no support for installing phased updates, so also not quite so relevant.03:45
infinityWell, yes, that too.03:46
ScottKxnox: I meant installing it, not installing using it.03:46
infinityScottK: Can't be too many people who run openstack on an Ubuntu desktop with update-manager.03:47
infinity(But yeah, it should probably be okay anyway)03:47
ScottKDoes server still just use apt?03:47
infinityapt or unattended-upgrades, but nothing particularly more fancy.03:47
ScottKMy recent server install was on Hardy.03:48
infinityI suppose someone could try to jam phasing knowledge into landscape or some other mass admin thing, but I would pretty much consider it harmful at that point.03:49
infinityOr, at least, very confusing.03:49
ScottKYeah.  I'm not proposing it.03:49
ScottKJust think it's worth considering that anything server/cloud 'ish won't do phase updates either.03:50
* infinity scratches his head over one of his machines not running ntpdate on boot...03:50
infinityOh, *sigh*.03:52
infinityIt's outsmarting itself.03:52
infinityInternal bridge comes up, ntpdate runs, lockfiles, external if comes up via DHCP, ntpdate exits on the lockfile.03:53
ubot2Yes, it's out! Download at http://www.ubuntu.com/download | Release announcement at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2014-April/000182.html05:01
* xnox ponders if we need a new command for "is next release named yet"05:02
ScottKNot on IRC please.05:27
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saiarcot895Hi all. Can someone nominate for #1308794 for Trusty? I have a fix ready for SRU.11:55
NoNameYet_xnoxbug #130879411:59
ubot2Launchpad bug 1308794 in checkstyle (Ubuntu) "Checkstyle unusable on Trusty" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130879411:59
saiarcot895Thank you, NoNameYet_xnox12:04
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bdmurrayCould I get a speedy release of the SRU for bug 1310851?16:31
ubot2Launchpad bug 1310851 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu Saucy) "Failed to fetch window does not appear" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131085116:31
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infinitybdmurray: Yeah, that looks reasonable.16:38
infinitybdmurray: Done.16:39
bdmurrayinfinity: thanks16:47
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bdmurrayinfinity: when will Quantal be going EoL? I'm going on vacation later this week and was thinking about stopping the acceptance of crash reports for errors tomorrow.21:19
infinitybdmurray: I need to send out a warning announce, discussing with the security team has me sending out the warn nowish, and EOL would be in ~4w, then.21:20
infinitybdmurray: Though, given that we never switched the default upgrade path from 13.10 to 14.04, the arguments we originally had for the slight extention are gone.21:21
bdmurrayinfinity: ah, so not in april then21:21
infinityBut no one told me that in enough time to warn for an earlier EOL. :P21:21
ScottKinfinity: So what's the 12.10 upgrade path?21:38
infinityScottK: 12.10->13.10->14.0421:41
infinitySo, 12.10 needs to EOL before 13.10, but needed to EOL after 14.04 release.  Basically, anytime in the next month is fine for that.21:41

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