[00:56] <bluesabre> Logan_: #ubuntu-release...
[00:56] <bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: Get someone to upload it, much easier to review in the queue.
[00:56] <bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: (but looks fine to me)
[00:57] <Logan_> why didn't I know that was a channel? :P
[00:57] <bluesabre> :)
[01:00] <Unit193> ..Wait, you didn't? 0_o
[02:18] <Logan_> bluesabre, Unit193: I apparently was there before during the Raring cycle
[02:18] <Logan_> because it came up as scrollback when I joined
[02:18] <Logan_> [17:41:05]  * Topic for #ubuntu-release is: Ubuntu 12.10 released | Archive: Open | Raring Ringtail Release Coordination.  Please don't upload things during freezes where you shouldn't, or be prepared to apologise to the release team | we accept payment in cash, check or beer | melior malum quod cognoscis
[02:19] <Logan_> well, now I'm there again, so all is good in the world
[07:54] <ochosi> morning everyone
[07:54] <elfy> hi ochosi 
[09:20] <ochosi> amigamagic: so some quick feedback on your patch
[09:20] <ochosi> i think that it generally makes sense to distinguish between the grouped and ungrouped windows visually
[09:20] <ochosi> the idea with the label isn't too bad, how does it affect the width of the window-button?
[09:21] <ochosi> if you set up e.g. a vertical panel, does the icon get downscaled?
[09:21] <ochosi> from my POV the ideal solution would be to have a sort of "badge" on top of the icon, like emblems in thunar
[09:22] <ochosi> with a background color to make sure the label is always readable
[09:23] <amigamagic> ochosi, yes, I could set a background color for the number
[09:24] <amigamagic> for now I'm using the default color used for the labels
[09:24] <amigamagic> so I think it should be always visible, if the theme is not messed up
[09:25] <ochosi> yeah, but i was actually wondering if the label can't be stacked on top of the appicon
[09:26] <amigamagic> I just tried the vertical "deskbar" panel
[09:26] <elfy> ochosi: that would look better imo
[09:26] <amigamagic> the icons are scaled to accomodate the number :)
[09:31] <amigamagic> ochosi, I've tried the thunar emblems feature (I didn't know it) and the emblems are placed first at the bottom right of the icon
[09:33] <amigamagic> btw, emblems implementation is a little buggy, isn't it?
[09:34] <amigamagic> when I place an emblem on a file of the desktop, I will not see emblems on them. If I place an emblem inside Thunar, it will work.
[09:35] <amigamagic> And if I place an emblem in the desktop folder, inside a Thunar window, then you will see the emblem on the desktop too.
[09:40] <amigamagic> mmmh... it looks like on the desktop it's a bit random if you will see the emblems or not... Sometimes they will be displayed after 1 minute from your last mod!
[09:46] <amigamagic> anyway, back to my grouped number mod, me too I think that a "badge" on the icon of the taskbar would be nicer. For now I'm solving some alignment problems when you change size options for the panel. When I'm done with this mod I could try to make a "badged" version.
[10:15] <ochosi> amigamagic: sounds good to me
[11:29] <amigamagic> do you think I should make an option to let the user choice if display the little number when you select "always" in grouping option, or it should be the "only" behaviour when you select "always"?
[11:29] <amigamagic> ochosi, elfy ^^
[11:31] <amigamagic> personally, I think that you should always see a visual feedback when there is more than one app stacked in one group in the taskbar, but maybe someone is happy with the current behaviour (no visual feedback for the stacked icons)?
[11:32] <ochosi> i think that option might be over the top
[11:32] <ochosi> but if you add one, i'd just add a separate checkbox for it
[11:32] <ochosi> that is only sensitive when grouping is chosen
[11:37] <amigamagic> ok... I don't know if it's worth the effort :D
[11:38] <ochosi> yeah, me neither
[11:38] <ochosi> i'd not start with making it optional
[11:38] <ochosi> *if* ppl complain, that can always be considered
[11:46] <bluesabre> ochosi: any feedback on the taskbar plugin?
[11:59] <ochosi> bluesabre: i've been testing it since yesterday
[11:59] <ochosi> it works ok actually
[11:59] <ochosi> but it's a bit buggy
[11:59] <ochosi> so it'd need a fixup
[11:59] <ochosi> (and a release)
[11:59] <bluesabre> right
[12:00] <ochosi> the default theming isn't ideal
[12:00] <ochosi> that'd have to be improved
[12:00] <ochosi> and the bug i showed you (for parole) is illustrative of a general issue in the plugin
[12:00] <bluesabre> have you found the developer?
[12:00] <ochosi> but you can do a pretty perfect unity-like setup with the taskbar plugin
[12:00] <ochosi> which is nice
[12:01] <ochosi> haven't gotten in touch yet, wanna write down the issues first and create a roadmap or something
[12:01] <bluesabre> ok
[12:01] <ochosi> but if i don't find time for that soon, i'll just try to get a hold of him as it is
[12:01] <ochosi> last commit is already a year ago, so who knows
[12:01] <bluesabre> cool, keep me posted
[12:01] <bluesabre> I tested it a while back and stopped using it because it was buggy
[12:02] <ochosi> willd do
[12:02] <ochosi> yeah, you can easily install it from the packages Unit193 made
[12:02] <ochosi> btw, we really need to set up a common xubuntu testing PPA
[12:02] <ochosi> where more ppl have access, so that testing packages aren't so scattered anymore
[12:02] <ochosi> not only elfy will appreciate that
[12:03]  * elfy would certainly appreciate that :)
[12:04] <elfy> ochosi: I'm fiddling with wiki pages - shall I add it to the thursdat meeting
[12:04] <ochosi> yeah, pls do
[12:05] <bluesabre> sounds good, I'll help set something up
[12:05] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[12:07] <elfy> ochosi: ok - done that
[12:23] <amigamagic> ochosi, are you testing another taskbar plugin? Maybe it's that with the pinning feature?
[12:23] <ochosi> amigamagic: yes, that's the one i'm testing
[12:23] <amigamagic> I tried it and it was a little buggy
[12:23] <ochosi> if you wanna help, you can write down the bugs you found and pastebin them
[12:24] <ochosi> or we can put them on a wiki page somewhere
[12:25] <amigamagic> ok, it would be nice to have icons pinnable and with the visual feedback of grouped icons... Then it could definitely replace the default one. :)
[12:26] <ochosi> yeah, or it could just be an additional plugin
[12:27] <ochosi> for now the latter seems easier
[12:28] <amigamagic> I'm finishing my mod, then I have to upload the patch somewhere so that you can try it
[12:30] <ochosi> ideally create a bugreport on bugs.xfce.org and attach the patch there
[12:32] <amigamagic> ok, I will do it, then I let you know
[13:01] <elfy> seem to have lost indicator-messages again
[13:50] <knome> christoffer, hmpf, we should take it here or -offtopic ;)
[13:51] <christoffer> knome, ok
[13:51] <knome> christoffer, ooh, exciting
[13:51] <knome> what have they hired you for?
[14:05] <elfy> knome: if we've got meeting on Thursday - which I thought we did can you add it to the calendar
[14:08] <amigamagic> hey guys, can you tell me if, in the current implementation, the icon of a grouped icon is "smaller" than the other ones? (try to set an height >= 40 pixel for the panel)
[14:09] <elfy> yes it is
[14:09] <amigamagic> ok, so this is another bug I fixed
[14:09] <amigamagic> thank you elfy
[14:10] <elfy> then that really needs to be seperate imo - what happens if nothing gets done with the number in the grouping thing?
[14:11] <amigamagic> wait, I'm verifying...
[14:11] <elfy> pretty sure there was a bug for that - unless it was you talking about it in here previously
[14:11] <amigamagic> oh, elfy, in my current implementation you can't choose if you want the number or not
[14:12] <amigamagic> if you select ALWAYS in the group option, then you will see the little number
[14:12] <elfy> I'm talking about icon size 
[14:13] <elfy> personally neither affect me as I don't use the plugin at all - but *someone* was talking about icon size in the plugin recently
[14:13] <elfy> the only one I've ever heard trying to make it work like windows is you :p
[14:14] <amigamagic> in my mod, the icons are big when you select ALWAYS in the group option
[14:14] <amigamagic> I mean they have the same size as the "not grouped" one
[14:15] <elfy> the icons in window buttons plugin are smaller without your mod
[14:15] <amigamagic> but if you select "show labels", then they will be small, as in the current implementation
[14:15] <amigamagic> yes, elfy, without my mod they are smaller when are grouped
[14:15] <amigamagic> and I don't like that...
[14:19] <elfy> they are smaller when ungrouped as well
[14:19] <amigamagic> elfy, have you selected "always" option?
[14:19] <amigamagic> and "no labels" ?
[14:19] <elfy> I've not selected anything - I don't use it :)
[14:21] <amigamagic> so, being that you don't use it, you are "remembering" how it works? :)
[14:21] <elfy> though that might be as intended behaviour
[14:22] <elfy> amigamagic: I can remember a few minutes ago 
[14:23] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/306975
[14:24] <elfy> smaller - and I'm not adding it to the panel again lol 
[14:24] <elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9619
[14:31] <amigamagic> I'm surprised that from 2012-12 noone has fixed that...
[14:32] <amigamagic> my mod fix it as a collateral consequence :D
[14:33] <amigamagic> I think I have solved the little things in my mod... Now I have to clean a little the code and I will make a patch
[14:33] <amigamagic> so you can try it (if you want) :)
[14:38]  * amigamagic has connection problems. Stupid wifi router!
[14:40] <amigamagic> I noticed that the taskbar plugin lacks the feature to restore all the minimized windows... There is a "maximize" contextual menu, but to me it works only for windows already restored. If they are minimized, they will keep to be minimized.
[14:41] <amigamagic> I'm always talking of grouped windows, of course
[14:44] <amigamagic> To me it seems that the original developer didn't give much importance to the grouped icons feature, so he keep that in a sort of incomplete status.
[14:45] <elfy> seems to me that the whole thing is a non-issue tbh - but then I don't ever use it :)
[14:46] <amigamagic> elfy, if you don't use some feature, it doesn't mean no one will use it :)
[14:46] <amigamagic> and it doesn't mean it's not broken...
[14:47] <elfy> well I guess that lots of people do use it - but the absence of any bugs for it not telling them how many things are grouped says something too 
[14:47] <elfy> but anyway - I wouldn't want you to think I don't think you're doing something worthwhile :)
[14:48] <amigamagic> elfy, to me that means that a very few people use the grouped feature in xfce. But I understand that noone would use it as it is now... :)
[14:49] <elfy> I used it for a while - as grouped - but knowing how many I had grouped was of no interest to me - as I had to click it to open one of the grouped things, and as soon as I did that I could see how many there were :)
[14:49] <elfy> not really sure how useful a number is :)
[14:49] <amigamagic> and maybe xfce users are more technical guys, or they are less spoiled guys than me...
[14:50] <elfy> but - I am not going to talk about it - stop leading me on :D
[14:50] <amigamagic> :D
[14:50] <amigamagic> maybe I should not make this patch anymore... :D
[14:50] <elfy> ha ha - you carry one - ochosi thinks it's worth your time :)
[15:10] <knome> elfy, done
[15:10] <amigamagic> sorry guys, what's the default panel size? 30 ?
[15:15] <nhoj> 24
[15:15] <amigamagic> thanx
[15:15] <nhoj> jumps to 34 if you touch the slider
[15:16] <amigamagic> wow, are you sure it's 24: that's pretty small to my eyes
[15:16] <amigamagic> ?
[15:16] <nhoj> I could be wrong -- seems small to me but then I increased the font size
[15:39] <ochosi> amigamagic: yes, it is 24
[15:40] <ochosi> the top panel height is pretty much the same in unity, osx and xubuntu
[15:40] <ochosi> obviously with window-grouping and hiding labels, the window buttons would become too small to be usable, so the panel size would have to be increased
[15:40] <amigamagic> at 24 pixel the number is high as the small icon itself!
[15:40] <ochosi> yup, i'm not surprised
[15:41] <ochosi> as i said, that's not what the panel config is set out for
[15:43] <amigamagic> I think my mod is useful for who loves to have grouped icons with a panel high at least 32 pixel
[15:44] <ochosi> yeah
[15:44] <ochosi> i'm currently testing the taskbar plugin in a unity-like setup
[15:44] <ochosi> it's actually not too bad
[15:45] <amigamagic> I tried to launch a pinned thunar and the pinned icon did flash but no thunar was loaded...
[15:45] <ochosi> yes, i think the problem is that the plugin saves the app + argument unescaped
[15:46] <ochosi> so it ends up executing thunar $folder, instead of "thunar $folder"
[15:46] <ochosi> i noticed that when i pinned parole after opening a movie
[15:46] <ochosi> you can see in the playlist sidebar that the programme parameters are garbled up
[15:46] <elfy> knome: thanks - I'd have done the wiki - but wasn't completely sure if we were meeting this week or not
[15:47] <knome> elfy, np
[15:47] <knome> the meeting is in the google calendar now as well
[15:47] <ochosi> good
[15:48] <elfy> hopefully enough people will pitch up to make it worthwhile - there's a fair bit on it 
[21:18] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm.conf/+merge/216782
[21:39] <ochosi> Unit193: yup, received mail about it
[21:40] <Unit193> Figured in case anyone didn't.
[21:40] <ochosi> yup, ty