slowconhey guys. was wondering if there is a way to uninstall xorg without uninstalling lubuntu04:19
slowconi saw some things online, but when i run them they all say they are going to remove desktop04:20
slowconi got into root and that let me kill xorg so its not uploading anymore, but still havent removed it04:39
RAOFslowcon: You want a headless server?04:53
pittiGood morning04:55
RAOFHey pitti! Good morning!05:01
pittihey RAOF, how are you?05:09
RAOFI'm well. Your fine self?+05:09
pittiRAOF: I'm good too, thanks; my cold is almost gone, and got some good night's sleep05:10
pittihad some really enjoyable Easter holidays :)05:10
RAOFSounds like things are looking up!05:11
slowconRAOF: sorrry, didnt see your reply. basically what happened is someone got onto my server and installed a bitcoin miner05:48
slowconRA0F:trying to get it off05:48
RAOFslowcon: Urgh, sorry to hear that.05:48
RAOFslowcon: The only _safe_ way to proceed is to repave that server with a clean image; you can't really trust anything it says.05:49
RAOFslowcon: But Xorg is (probably) not the droid you're looking for. Xorg is the display server, which is required for any form of desktop. Which will be why lubuntu depends on it.05:50
RAOF(Unless your server's got UEFI secure boot enabled and enforced; in that case you can _probably_ trust a freshly-booted kernel)05:51
slowconRAOF: ahhh damn, i had just got the firewall, novnc and everything setup05:55
slowconRAOF: I have a cloud server, i asked if they had backups and they said they had snapshots, which "is like a backup"05:56
slowconVexxhost is the provider05:56
slowconyou think i should go that route?05:56
RAOFIf you can restore a snapshot from before your server was compromised that would work.05:57
RAOFAs long as you know *when* it was compromised :)05:57
RAOFThis is sort of the point where what you do depends on your acceptable level of paranoia.05:58
RAOFIf the attackers had root, they could do pretty arbitrarily bad things, including installing kernel mods that hide themselves and resist removal. But they probably *haven't* done that.05:59
RAOFBut you can't really tell unless you go back to a known-good state.06:00
mlankhorstHello, world!\n06:43
mlankhorstRAOF: yeah but I'm wondering what prevents you from patching the kernel and making it say secure boot is enabled?06:44
RAOFmlankhorst: You'd need to know that before the machine was compromised, of course.06:44
RAOF*If* your machine was enforcing secure boot (and the UEFI wasn't compromised), then a reboot should get you a known-good kernel, at least as-loaded-from-grub :)06:47
mlankhorstyeah but I don't trust bios vendors to get enforced secure boot right :P06:48
slowconRAOF: is it possible for whoever got into my server to spoof all the times in the history?07:13
RAOFslowcon: This depends on where that history is stored.07:14
RAOFBut the general rule is that nothing the attacker had access to is entirely trustworthy; ie: if you're reading logs off the disc, it's entirely possible they've been doctored.07:16
slowconyeah he left a command in the clipboard that erased the history hahahaha07:17
slowconRAOF: this is what was in the clipboard07:18
RAOFHeh. Sophisticated! :)07:21
slowconi dont know how to fix it hahaha07:22
RAOFWell, the way to be *sure* is to destroy that cloud server and create a new one from a fresh image. The way to be _mostly_ sure is to restore a previous snapshot that you're pretty sure pre-dates the attack.07:25
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|errand
Laneyhey hey08:06
seb128good morning desktopers08:06
seb128Laney, hey, how are you?08:06
pittihey Laney, bonjour seb12808:06
seb128pitti, hey, wie gehts?08:06
pittiseb128: gut, danke! und selbst?08:06
seb128pitti, auch gut, danke!08:07
Laneyhey seb12808:07
Laneythe blue skies have come back so i'm good!08:07
Laneyguten morgen pitti08:07
seb128same here08:07
GunnarHjseb128: Good morning!08:25
seb128GunnarHj, hey08:25
GunnarHjseb128: Time for a licensing question?08:25
seb128GunnarHj, you can ask, I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask about licenses though08:25
seb128but others can reply on the channel as well if that's one I don't know about08:25
GunnarHjseb128: Ok, I ask:08:26
GunnarHjI'm about to create a package with Skype-translations which are not shipped with the Skype client:08:26
GunnarHjWondering about the license. Currently I have this in debian/copyright:08:26
GunnarHj"Files: *.ts08:26
GunnarHjLicense: public-domain08:26
GunnarHj Collaborative work by community members; no natural copyright holder."08:26
seb128GunnarHj, I've no idea how transifex is working, I guess projects pick their license there? but I don't find any indication on the page you pointed to08:29
GunnarHjseb128: I have really looked around, and haven't found anything about licenses.08:29
GunnarHjseb128: transifex seems to simply provide a tool for anyone to use...08:30
=== jhernand1z is now known as jhernandez
GunnarHjseb128: Is there a 'license guru'?08:34
seb128not really08:34
seb128but no "guru" is going to be able to guess what licenses those datas are under if that's not specified on the website that provide them08:35
GunnarHjseb128: Right. And my conclusion was: public-domain. :)08:35
seb128how can you conclude that when it's not specified?08:36
seb128you should email whoever is listed as contact on the site imho08:36
GunnarHjseb128: Do you mean that those providing the site are the ones who should determine the license terms? Or are you talking about the groups of individuals for respective translation?08:39
GunnarHjseb128: I have a feeling that most people involved never gave it a thought.08:41
seb128GunnarHj, well, whoever is handling the project08:42
seb128but yeah, it's likely08:42
GunnarHjseb128: Ok, I'll give it a try. There is some forum or something, I think.08:43
GunnarHjseb128: Thanks for your comments!08:44
seb128GunnarHj, yw!08:44
NoNameYet_xnoxbug #129796910:17
ubot2Launchpad bug 1297969 in ubuntu-push (Ubuntu Trusty) "Check cert" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/129796910:17
seb128NoNameYet_xnox, wrong channel?10:19
NoNameYet_xnoxseb128: testing bot, and on #ubuntu-devel it would probably wouldn't print the message as the repeat would be too soon =)10:20
NoNameYet_xnoxseb128: and i choose to spam #ubuntu-desktop rather than using bot's PM inteface ;-)10:21
seb128NoNameYet_xnox, I see ;-)10:25
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
=== alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g
andyrockseb128, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1311344 and https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/131161711:59
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311344 in Unity "lock screen password not recognised after wake from sleep (may be related to sticky keys)" [Medium,Confirmed]11:59
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311617 in lightdm (Ubuntu) "After suspending, shift key is stuck down" [Undecided,New]11:59
seb128hey andyrock12:00
andyrockare the same bugs12:00
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch
seb128could be12:00
seb128did you confirm it?12:00
andyrockbecause if i print the password using printf12:00
andyrockit appears in uppercase12:01
andyrocknot sure it's unity fault12:01
andyrockand not sure it's lightdm's fault12:01
andyrockany idea which pkg we should target it to?12:01
seb128is the issue the "sticky keys" ... is the input uppercase in the session as well?12:04
andyrocklet me try to disable the lockscreen so I can test it12:04
andyrockyep the bug happens in the sessions as well12:09
seb128k, so probably an unity-settings-daemon issue12:09
seb128can you reassign there and maybe add a description of the issue12:10
seb128is the uppercase happening only after suspend/resume?12:10
andyrockseb128, yeah... it can only reproduce after s/r12:10
ochosihey seb12812:29
ochosi(and everyone else)12:29
seb128ochosi, hey,  how are you?12:29
ochosigood good :)12:29
ochosistill suffering from a bit of post-release-tiredness12:29
ochosibut the easter-holidays helped12:29
ochosi're things with you?12:29
seb128things are pretty good, it was nice to have a long w.e indeed!12:30
seb128looking at what needs to be SRUed now, based on the release feedback12:30
ochosiyeah, we also have a few locking problems like you12:30
ochosiactually i have a bug that was assigned to light-locker, but it's actually the12:30
ochosiunity lockscreen12:31
ochosiwhat would i assign it to?12:31
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311036 in Ubuntu "unlock keystrokes sent to virtual-box session" [Undecided,New]12:31
ochosi(fwiw, i think this is the known issue)12:31
seb128the one where something has a grab when the lock screen happens?12:31
seb128bug #130558612:32
ubot2Launchpad bug 1305586 in Unity "Lock screen is unusable when a password dialog has a keyboard/mouse grab" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130558612:32
ochosii could at least imagine, yes12:32
ochosijust a different app/window that has the grab12:32
seb128could be indeed12:32
=== alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g
GunnarHjseb128: We guessed right; they hadn't thought about it.12:45
seb128GunnarHj, I don't have the permissions to see that url12:45
GunnarHjseb128: Aha...12:46
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
NoNameYet_xnoxGunnarHj: paste a screenshot, please =)12:46
GunnarHjNoNameYet_xnox: Right..12:46
* mvo is away for a bit12:52
GunnarHjseb128: I asked the admin of the Skype translation project at transifex about licenses, and he made this announcement:12:57
seb128GunnarHj, k, good that you asked then ;-)12:59
NoNameYet_xnoxGunnarHj: yeah, it should be permissive MIT/BSD/Apache2.0 otherwise it's pointless.12:59
NoNameYet_xnoxGunnarHj: launchpad uses 3-clause bsd https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/LicensingFAQ so you could recommend that.12:59
GunnarHjNoNameYet_xnox: Thanks for the tip! Will do.13:00
mptI can reliably hang Compiz by clicking on an iPhone in the Unity launcher. That is strange.13:29
seb128it just hangs?13:30
seb128or does it segfault (with apport keeping it hanging while it's dealing with the report)13:30
mptseb128, every window stops responding to clicks until I kill -9 the compiz process13:33
seb128mpt, is apport running when that happens?13:34
seb128e.g what is in top13:34
mptgood question, I’ll look13:34
mptseb128, no, apport is not running — it really is a hang, not a crash13:36
seb128can you get a stacktrace of compiz will it's hanging?13:36
seb128you can kill -11 it and let apport get the bt13:37
seb128or use gdb yourself directly13:37
mpt“Sorry, the application apport-retrace has stopped unexpectedly.” \o/13:43
mptseb128, I attached the stacktrace to bug 131166313:45
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311663 in compiz (Ubuntu) "Clicking iPhone in Launcher hangs Compiz" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/131166313:45
seb128mpt, thanks13:45
davmor2kenvandine: Friends app should scrolling in the app really be using 70% of the cpu?13:48
kenvandinedavmor2, no... it really shouldn't13:49
kenvandinebut lots of stuff has changed in that listview, i haven't looked at it lately13:49
seb128mpt, that seems another of those bugs where a sync call to gvfs hangs for whatever reason :/13:50
kenvandinedavmor2, on the desktop or device?13:50
davmor2kenvandine: I was looking on my pc let me try the device13:51
mptseb128, so it’s two bugs? First that gvfs shouldn’t hang, and second that Compiz shouldn’t hang when gvfs does13:51
seb128mpt, I guess we can say that yes13:52
davmor2kenvandine: 102.2% on device13:53
kenvandinedavmor2, file a bug, that needs some profiling done and optimizing13:53
davmor2kenvandine: wilko13:53
ogra_use a bucket to catch these extra percents in case they drip out of the case13:53
kenvandinei love that crazy math13:54
ogra_heh, yeah13:54
davmor2kenvandine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/friends-app/+bug/131167413:58
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311674 in friends-app (Ubuntu) "Friends-app uses 70% on pc and 102.2% on mako scrolling list view" [Undecided,New]13:58
mptAnd now report a bug in ubot213:59
mptfor misparsing that bug summary13:59
davmor2mpt: how did it?14:01
mptOh, turns out it’s actually a bug in my graphics driver, never mind :)14:01
kenvandineanother bug to file14:04
davmor2mpt: of course bug number 1 is the iphone ;)14:05
NoNameYet_xnoxlol =)14:07
mlankhorstgah found another bug while switching :P14:18
ogra_dont switch !14:19
mpt“Doctor it hurts when I do this”14:24
mlankhorstwhat's missing from the joke is that the patient's complaining about a broken arm14:28
BigWhaleIs it possible to bump version of python3-cairo in the next 14.04 update? Who should I bug about this? seb128? :)15:07
LaneyWhat for?15:08
BigWhaleLaney, version 1.10.0 which is included now, is three years old and is missing few things that future version of Kazam will be using.15:09
BigWhaleI could provide it in a PPA, but this is really something that every python developer dealing with cairo would benefit from.15:10
LaneyBigWhale: 14.04 is released now and so it can only accept bug fixes15:11
LaneyProviding it in U and then in trusty-backports is an option if someone's willing to test the packages which depend on python3-cairo keep on working with the new one15:11
BigWhaleLaney, from my point of view, those are bug fixes, certain things were broken in python implementation and are fixed in
LaneyBigWhale: Check the stable update criteria https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#When15:22
LaneyIf you think each of the fixes (I can't check as I cannot find this 1.10.1 release) meet the definition then feel free to follow the procedure15:22
BigWhaleLaney, I'll look at the changes later today. I didn't have the chance to do so.15:23
LaneyIt's also an option to cherry-pick only some of them15:24
=== gatox is now known as gatox_lunch
MacSlowcommit 75e82a1b3f495a3abbc78e50a5c66356d320fb15,  commit 2f9e604ac7bb5f6386179a3d0fad6f095c386f6615:32
MacSlowthese two commits after pycairo's 1.10.0 provide ImageSurface.create_for_data() and cairo_region_t which should be enough...15:33
MacSlowmake those into distro-patches and we might have an easier time getting those into 14.04 LTS15:33
LaneyI can help upload if you like, can't promise the SRU team will accept that though15:40
LaneyDoesn't really sound like it fixes bugs15:40
LaneyAnd arguing that 'misses an important feature' is a bug doesn't fly15:40
LaneyBut you never know15:40
Trevinhoseb128, Laney: about that grab issue for password fields, indeed unity must be fixed, to handle these cases better, but imho there we should still disable the grabs in libgcr by default. Grabs are just bad.15:42
Trevinhonot to mention that for some reason that client doesn't inform the xserver that a grab has just been done15:44
seb128Trevinho, that sounds like a loosing strategy, similar issues have been reported with e.g virtualbox16:18
seb128Trevinho, you can't make sure users are never going to have something doing grabs, the safe way is to just handle those case better in unity16:18
seb128BigWhale, MacSlow, Laney: wrapping functions that were missing seems like something that could be SRUed in a LTS imho16:19
seb128but I'm not in the SRU team16:19
LaneyIt's not my call16:19
MacSlowseb128, that would be very cool16:19
seb128Laney, you seem to disagree with the principle though?16:20
Laneynot really16:20
seb128k, I misread the "shrug" then ;-)16:20
LaneyBut it doesn't really fit with the criteria16:20
Laneyso I don't want to say it's a good idea when I have no idea if it's the kind of thing that gets accepted16:20
seb128yeah, I think it's worth trying to get in if they are useful16:20
seb128we want the LTS to be a solid platform for devs16:21
Trevinhoseb128: no, that was not my idea of fixing it... Grabs should be handled better compiz/unity side... But I also think that we should get rid of that  grab16:21
MacSlowseb128, Laney: in this particular case it doesn't really add functionality, but fixes the implementation16:21
seb128MacSlow, hum, does it change api? wrapping things that were missing is one thing, changing an existant implementation another16:21
seb128MacSlow, like by wrapping new thing you can't create issues for existing clients so that's fine16:22
MacSlowseb128, no it does not16:22
seb128MacSlow, changing an existing implementation seems more risky16:22
MacSlowseb128, it corrects the exposure of cairo_region_t and cairo_image_surface_create_for_data()16:23
MacSlowin pycairo16:23
seb128MacSlow, "corrects", like they were implemented with a wrong api and it fixes that?16:23
LaneyTrevinho: why?16:24
seb128MacSlow, which would create issues for clients relying on the incorrect implementation?16:24
MacSlowseb128, no... api stays the same... it just works after those patches16:24
MacSlowseb128, it didn't work at all before :)16:24
seb128well, as long as it can't create bugs for existing clients which were relying on the buggy api/using it a way that worked and would stop working16:24
TrevinhoLaney: because grabs are just bad and goes against all the design we have... We always tried to remove grabs everywhere around16:24
LaneyI've not heard of that16:25
seb128Laney, I think our design has been in favor of password prompts being "normal dialog"16:26
seb128in opposition to what e.g gnome-shell is doing (or gksu used to do)16:26
seb128which is like dim the whole screen and force the password prompt16:26
Laneythat's not the same as a grab though16:26
MacSlowseb128, I understand the concern, but can't image how those fixes could affect existing clients using pycairo 1.10.0 (from 14.04 LTS)16:26
seb128MacSlow, k, good, you guys should open a bug with the commits to backport listed and ask for sponsoring16:27
Trevinhothe ibky grabs we've around are there only for X limitations, although i've just seen that using Xi2 could give us the ability of removing many of them16:27
MacSlowBigWhale, ^ see seb128's comment16:27
seb128Laney, Trevinho: what do we call "grab" there? the polkit dialog force foreground but don't lock input16:27
seb128I wouldn't object to have polkit and keyring having a consistent behaviour16:28
seb128not sure which one is the more correct one though16:28
LaneyDoesn't let you type elsewhere16:28
Trevinhoseb128: https://github.com/GNOME/gcr/blob/master/ui/gcr-prompt-dialog.c#L62616:28
=== gatox_lunch is now known as gatox
seb128mdeslaur, hey, do you know if the security team has an opinion on whether e.g gnome-keyring password dialogs should have a keyboard grab?16:33
Trevinhoseb128: at least not in unity-env...16:33
mdeslaurseb128: hrm, not off the top of my head16:35
mdeslaurseb128: perhaps it's an artifact from when they used to make the whole screen inactive?16:35
mdeslauror maybe there's another reason I'm not thinking of at the moment16:35
LaneyI'm not sure I can think enough about the subject atm to have a good opinion16:36
Laneyit's not necessary to fix this now anyway as Unity needs to be fixed anyway16:36
Laneyis this something that'd be different across desktops? not sure about that...16:37
mdeslaurThe one thing I do know, is the screen lock needs to get the grab, and needs to abort if it can't get it ie: a gtk menu is open16:37
TrevinhoLaney: unity needs a fix, but that lib is wrong anyway...16:37
LaneyI don't know16:37
mdeslaurIf unity does abord because it can't get the grab, it would be nice to print out an error to the log file, so when people file bugs that they're screen didn't lock, we know why16:38
LaneyBut concentrating on this one prompt is a bit of a distraction16:38
seb128Laney, well, I know I hate the passwords with grabs like the keyring ones16:38
seb128I had cases where keyring had a password open on another screen16:38
seb128which was off16:38
seb128and I could click and open stuff on my primary screen16:39
seb128but not type anything16:39
seb128I even plugged another keyboard once :p16:39
seb128before realizing something somewhere was having a grab16:39
LaneyI believe there are weird cases16:39
mdeslaurhrm, perhaps they try to grab the keyboard to simply be sure nothing _else_ is grabbing the keyboard16:40
seb128well in any case polkit prompt don't seem to grab (just tried with unlock in the user settings)16:40
seb128so we have an inconsistant behaviour16:40
LaneyI get why you might want to do it, because then you are sure (as you can be) the password isn't going anywhere else16:40
seb128but yeah, nothing major there16:40
seb128let's start by fixing unity16:40
LaneyI don't think it's as simple as "this grab is wrong, let's get rid of it"16:41
Laneyit's a conversation to be had upstream imho16:41
seb128we had it16:41
Trevinhothe problem with that dialog is that it grabs *before* being mapped and that makes compiz crazy... So while I've found a solution for compiz, that dialog should do that after mapping it16:41
seb128Laney, I think mpt and GNOME upstream were in disagreement on the design16:42
seb128upstream GNOME think that the password prompt should be the only thing on screen16:42
seb128(that's what they did, they dim the bg and display only that)16:42
seb128I think to remember that mpt was more on the opinion that password dialogs should be normal dialogs16:42
seb128mpt, let me know if I remember wrongly16:42
mdeslaurseb128: that sounds accurate, yes16:43
seb128our current implementation is a bit in between (which sucks)16:43
seb128we do grab for e.g keyring, but we don't display it a visible way16:43
seb128which leads to the possible confusing scenario I described a bit earlir16:43
Laneywell, I get why you do want them, that's all I'm saying16:44
LaneyI don't want to accidentally type my gpg passphrase into irc16:44
seb128Laney, right, but if that's a real concern we should have it for polkit prompt as well, because you don't want to type your user password here either16:51
LaneyI guess so16:51
LaneyI've just never noticed before16:52
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=== ChrisTownsend1 is now known as ChrisTownsend
=== m_conley_away is now known as m_conley
=== bschaefer_ is now known as bschaefer
ubot2Launchpad bug 1311847 in unity-settings-daemon (Ubuntu) "Neither Print, SHIFT+Print, nor CTRL+Print keyboard shortcuts work on Trusty" [Undecided,New]21:32
MikeRLI filed this bug, but I need someone who can help tell me if there's a better package to classify it under.21:33
=== sarnold_ is now known as sarnold
=== NoNameYet_xnox is now known as xnox
helderhi there22:53
=== m_conley is now known as m_conley_away

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