Pici'14.04' still looks weird to me... then again, I still catch myself writing 2013 in dates.01:06
phunyguyPici: I do the same thing with 2010, 2011, and 2012.03:03
phunyguycan't help it03:03
bazhanghtml seems to offer very random/poor advice08:02
bazhanguse wine and windows tool to create usb installer08:02
DJonesYesterday he posted a message about asking people who wanted to talk about LInux etc, to pm him for the ip address of his mumble server08:09
DJonesOnly a couple of times, he did stop of his own accord before anybody needed to ask him to stop08:10
bazhangdoesn't seem to be malicious afaict, just terribly misinformed08:11
DJonesyeah agree with that, I'd say 'enthusiastic and learning'08:13
bazhang<OpenSSeal-ed7> dafuq08:17
bazhangsuper bad news08:17
ikoniais he known ?08:17
bazhangaka "littlefoot"08:17
ikoniathat rings a bell08:17
bazhangnot smallfoot08:17
bazhangmuch worse08:17
yossarianukhi - I was banned from #ubuntu and #ubuntu-release-party for posting a link to the 14.04 final .iso on release day - unlike many other people I was actually posting the coorrect link (from releases.ubuntu.com)08:25
yossarianukhow can I get unbanned ?08:25
ikoniayossarianuk: you where not posting the correct link08:25
ikoniaand you where told NOT to post it multiple times08:26
ikoniayet you continued to post it08:26
yossarianukikonia: it has the correct md5sum.08:27
ikoniathat was not the point08:27
ikoniayossarianuk: where you the release manager /08:27
ikoniayossarianuk: did you know when it was safe to release it to the general public ?08:27
yossarianukok - well in that case I apologise - it was on the offical ubuntu servers and was uploaded on the release day08:28
ikoniayou where told not to do it in release party 2 times kicked and banned, so you joined #ubuntu and started doing it AFTER I'd already told you "not to do it"08:28
ikonia2014-04-17T15:18:25 <ikonia> yossarianuk: so don't so it then as it's not released08:29
ikoniayou then went on to post it again08:29
ikoniaI'm happy to remove the ban for you in #ubuntu08:30
ikoniahowever keep in mind - when you are told not to do something - don't keep doing it, don't join other channels and do it08:30
ikoniaif you have any questions, join this channel and ask or pm the person asking you not to do it and ask08:30
ikoniado you understand ?08:30
yossarianukikonia: yes I do08:31
ikoniayossarianuk: I've removed the ban for you in #ubuntu, so if you /part this channel and /join #ubuntu you should be set08:32
ikoniaplease remember what I've explained to you in this channel08:32
yossarianukikonia: sure - I wasn't try to be malicious btw.08:34
ikoniaI understand that, however your actions cause a problem08:35
ikoniaI have no idea why you keep being told not to do it, yet you chose to ignore that and keep doing it08:35
yossarianukand yes I do get why you want the .iso to be offically released before 1000's of people downloaded it.08:35
ikoniaok, so if people ask you not to do something, then tell you to stop doing it, I suggest following it rather than continuing, getting banned, joining other channels and continuing08:36
ikoniathey are asking you then telling you to stop for a good reason/they have more information than you at that time08:36
yossarianukikonia: ok - got you.08:36
yossarianukand thanks08:36
ikoniathank yo08:36
yossarianukI personally use kubuntu for desktop anyway although do use ubuntu servers at work (so its useful being able to access irc..)08:37
ikonianot sure how that matters08:37
yossarianukand  you never know I do actually try to go out my way to help people also sometimes....08:38
yossarianukok cheers08:38
bazhangno surprise with littlefoot08:38
ikoniabased on your comments, I saw no reason to try to negotiate after his comments to cfhlowett08:38
ikoniahello zetheroo10:51
ikoniasorry, didn't see you join as I was talking to someone10:51
zetheroobazhang: I am sorry for the name-calling in #ubuntu ... but ikonia has been giving me hell since just recently - and I don't know why per se! Last time I was asking for help he was giving me a real tough time telling me I was using "bad habits" and telling me to read the Ubuntu Guide etc ... he carried on like this for 15min or so ... and when I showed him that what I was doing WAS according to the Ubuntu Guide he then backed off ... and now he is at my10:52
ikoniazetheroo: let me clarify10:52
ikoniazetheroo: you cross-posted your question, no problem, I politely asked you not to do it10:52
ikoniayou then cross-posted a random made up thing about ubuntu not being production ready10:53
zetheroois cross-posting breaking a rule!?10:53
ikoniaI banned you from #ubuntu-server as you don't seem to get the no cross-posting10:53
ikoniazetheroo: yes, thats why I asked you not to do it10:53
ikoniaand you ignored it10:53
ikoniaand got banned10:53
bazhang!crosspost | zetheroo10:53
ubottuzetheroo: Please don't ask the same question in multiple Ubuntu channels at the same time. Many helpers are in more than one channel and it's not fair to them or the other people seeking support.10:53
zetheroowell what if you post a question one place and wait for a while and get no reply?10:53
ikoniayou didn't wait10:53
zetheroocan you still not post it in another room?10:53
zetherooI DID WAIT!!!10:53
ikoniaa few minutes10:54
zetheroonot hours ... but I waited!10:54
ikoniaa few minutes is not really waiting10:54
zetherooso whats the "time" that one has to wait!?10:54
ikoniapeople could still be typing / waiting for a response10:54
ikoniahowever, after I asked you NOT to do it10:54
ikoniayou then did it both channels seconds apart10:54
zetherooI did not see you asking me ...10:54
zetherooyes, the LAST line10:54
zetheroowow shocking!!10:54
ikoniait is shocking to be asked not to do something and then you do it again10:55
ikoniaI agree10:55
zetheroodelay ... maybe I did not see your request!?10:55
zetheroomaybe I posted it and then saw it seconds later (this is what happened)10:55
ikoniadoubtful, but very possible10:56
zetherooand by then your tearing into me for having suggested that 14.04 may not be totally ready for production deployment yet ... at least not in my case ...10:56
zetherooand then next thing I know you ban me!?10:56
zetheroocome on!!10:56
ikoniano, I didn't tear into you10:56
zetherooyes you did!10:56
ikoniaI asked you not to make statements you have no understanding about it10:56
zetherooLike it's a henious crime to suggest such a thing10:56
ikoniathen you argued, so I TOLD you not to do it10:56
ikoniayou then called me an asshole10:56
ikoniaso you got banned10:57
zetherooI did not call you an asshole10:57
ikoniawhat did you call me then10:57
zetherooI asked why the asshole attitude ...10:57
bazhangzetheroo, lets move past that please10:57
ikoniaat that point I'm out10:57
zetherooikonia: then leave ... but why ban me!?10:57
zetherooand I used ** :D10:57
ikoniayou can't even understand that asking why the asshole attitude suggest you are an asshole10:57
ikoniaF**k **f10:58
zetherooshoe fits!?10:58
bazhangzetheroo, your ban was correct, lets move past that10:58
ikoniado you understand what that means ?10:58
ikoniathat's exactly the same as what you've just done10:58
ikoniaand continuing to call me an asshole won't help resolve anything10:58
zetheroowell if I ask something and ikonia asks "what are the zombie processes" and I say "I don't know" - and then he treats me like a moron ... uhm ... yes ... if a new LTS release is having issues like this it's not exactly production ready .... no!?10:59
zetherooThere appear to also be issues with RAID ...10:59
ikoniano, that's not correct10:59
zetheroowhich I experienced earlier ... and which suddenly vanished10:59
ikoniaif you have a problem, and you don't know what it means/what harm it's doing/not doing - that doesn't make it "not production ready"10:59
ikoniayou have no idea what the problem is - which is fine, but cross posting "ubuntu is not production ready" isn't really the truth or valid11:00
ikoniamore so when you don't even know what the problem is11:00
zetherooso for me to "suggest" that booting into a fresh install of 14.04 with zombie processes may be a serious issue ... I don't think that is something to mock11:00
ikoniano-one is mocking it11:00
ikoniait may be a serious issue, it maybe nothing11:00
ikoniait maybe something specific to you or to everyone11:01
zetherooso it's the fact that I cross-posted  "ubuntu is not production ready" is what set you off then!?11:01
ikoniabut as everyone is not reporting it it's more likley to be something to do with you or a smaller group than everyone11:01
zetheroodon't like the suggestion that it ain't perfect ... ;)11:01
ikoniaso the normal thing is to work the problem through11:01
ikoniazetheroo: I don't care if ubuntu is perfect or not, I rarely use it,11:01
ikoniaso it causes me no personal problem for you to think it not production ready11:02
zetherooso whose ass do I need to kiss to get back onto the #ubuntu chat?! Actually since all the pros are here ... maybe I don't need to be bothered ... :P11:02
ikoniahowever giving out wrong information, cross-posting when asked not to, and calling people assholes thats what got you banned11:02
zetherooikonia: so whya re you acting hurt that I cross-posted that sentence?!11:02
ikoniaI'm not acting hurt at all11:02
ikoniaas I said, I don't care11:03
zetherooso whats the "law" concerning readmission!?11:03
ikoniaI do care that you give people the wrong information, more so when you have no idea about the problem you are claiming makes it not production ready11:03
ikoniaI do care that you cross-post your questions, and keep doing so when asked not to11:03
ikoniaI do care that you call people assholes11:03
zetheroodo I have to submit a form?11:03
ikoniaI do care that you appear to not grasp any of this and try to look for a reason / smart answer such as "who's ass do I kiss" to get it resolved11:03
bazhangjrib is back!11:04
zetheroono, you care that I had the audacity to call your attitude asinine! ;)11:04
ikoniaok, so you keep going with the asshole stuff11:04
ikoniaso I suggest you leave now, and think about why you are getting banned, and not getting unbanned11:04
zetherooikonia: I have no issue with helping and being helped by people in the IRC rooms ... but people who only answer you to mock you and tell you that what your doing is whats wrong etc ... that is a waste of my time! - And you seem to do that more and more these days ...11:05
ikoniazetheroo: no-one has mocked you11:05
zetherooheh ... riiiight11:06
ikoniano-one is mocking you11:06
zetherooyou railing at me for 15 min the other day ...!?11:06
zetheroothat was just "friendly banter" ...11:06
ikoniano, telling you not to depend on bad habbits is not mocking you11:06
ikoniaif you see that as mocking, fair enough11:06
ikoniaok, bye11:06
zetheroowho has the right/power to readmission me to the #ubuntu channel?11:07
ikoniaanyone in this channel11:07
k1lzetheroo: i dont see we can resolve that issue right now. please take some time to let the emotions calm down and come back in here to talk about that issue in a not that heated manner.11:07
ikoniahowever I suspect based on the conversation just shown and your inability to stop calling people assholes throughout the conversation, it won't be undone at the moment11:07
jribhello bazhang11:08
bazhanghi jrib11:08
zetherook1l: I already agreed that it was my bad for cross-posting.... and that I should not have called ikonia's attitude asinine! ... what more needs agreeing to!?11:09
zetheroobut I would like clarification on this cross-posting thing ... how much time must pass between posting in one room and then into another!?11:09
k1lzetheroo: just right now it seems to me that undo the ban will more start a timebomb. so please let some time path by to calm down the emotions on this. we can talk about the ban later on when not every word is interpreted as the worst case.11:10
zetherooalso, my comment regarding 14.04 and it's readiness for production-level deployment was also due to generally not feeling it was as stable as 12.04.4 ... strange goings on etc with fresh installs ...11:11
zetherook1l: can't you just say that ikonia and myself should keep our distance for a while!? - and let me play with the others ... ?11:12
zetherooI promise to keep my distance from ikonia ... and to play nice with the others ... :)11:12
zetherook1l: and what about the cross-posting question ...11:14
zetherooit's really too bad because I remember ikonia back years when i was just getting started with Linux ... I always thought of him/her as being a top person to get help from ... :-/11:15
k1lzetheroo: as is said before twice. i dont see a point to discuss that in that state of heated emotions.11:16
k1lso please take a day off and come back to reveal the ban when emotions are settled again11:16
zetherooto discuss the cross-posting !? or readmission?!11:16
zetheroomy emotions are settled ...11:16
zetherooso whose emotions are we talking about!? :P11:17
k1lzetheroo: last time now: please come back when its calmed down. you are still ad hominem so i stop right here11:17
bazhangsee you in 48 hrs zetheroo11:17
zetheroo"ad hominem" !?11:18
zetherooSorry, I don't understand ...11:18
bazhangzetheroo, come back here to discuss in 48 hrs11:18
zetherooso I am banned for 2 days!?11:18
k1lad hominem means you attack people. please come back in 48 hours.11:18
zetheroowho am I attacking!?11:18
bazhangwe will discuss that upon your return zetheroo there is not set time11:19
zetheroodid you take this as an "attack": t's really too bad because I remember ikonia back years when i was just getting started with Linux ... I always thought of him/her as being a top person to get help from ... :-/11:19
zetherooThat was NOT meant as such...11:19
bazhangzetheroo, our discussion for now is over, come back in 48hrs please11:20
knomezetheroo, going on won't help with your cause, so i would also advise to come back11:20
zetheroowow - so political ... :(11:20
knomein other words: go away now11:21
knomeif you want the less political version.11:21
zetheroothis has been very educational11:22
zetherooI would still like to know who I am still attacking ... since your asking me to stay away from 48 hrs is based on this allegation ...11:23
bazhangthe 48 hrs is the time until you return here to discuss the lifting of the ban11:24
ikoniazetheroo: don't worry, I don't see it as a personal attack, so I'm happy to clarify that11:24
bazhangcontinuing to argue *now* will not help that zetheroo11:25
zetherooI am not discussing the lifting of the ban, I am discussing the 48 hrs...11:25
bazhangyes, see you then11:25
zetheroobazhang: what is the 48hrs based on!?11:25
zetheroojust some arbitrary timeframe?11:26
bazhangzetheroo, a time to cool off11:26
knomezetheroo, stop arguing and leave. otherwise i can see somebody extending that time.11:26
zetherooas I already said, and have displayed, I have "cooled off" and I apologized  and promised to play nice (as I have done for years!)11:26
knomezetheroo, it doesn't give a "cool" impression you when you prove you can't listen to what people are saying and act accordingly11:27
zetherooknome: so basically if you say so then it goes - and if anyone questions it or asks for a reason they are in even more trouble ... !?11:28
zetherooAgain, me having just written that is probably seen by you as "disrespectful" and now I am probably in even more trouble ...11:28
knomejust leave11:28
zetherooand having just said that even more ...11:29
zetherooLOL :D11:29
bazhangzetheroo, see you in 48 hrs11:29
zetherooikonia: oh, just saw what you said - thanks! ;)11:29
zetheroobazhang: why? are there more people who are not "cooled off" enough!? 8-)11:30
knomezetheroo, i don't know what the original issue is, and i don't analyze in what tone you say things or don't. i'm looking this from the side and it looks like you should leave now than continue arguing11:30
zetherooknome: but why!? because I was arbitrarily told to, without reason!?11:31
zetherooother than "cool off" and "ad hominom" ... or something ...11:31
zetheroois ikonia not "cooled off"? is he/she attacking me!? - not from where I am standing ...11:33
zetherooso what's the holdup!?11:33
Tm_Tzetheroo: please leave now and return later as asked11:34
zetherooMaybe now that you have all told me to come back in 2 days you have to stick to it no matter what - otherwise you think you will loose face ... hmmm ...11:35
ikoniahello zetheroo12:25
ikoniathank you for re-joining12:25
ikoniaso we've had a good chat now for 20 minutes, and I think it's safe to say all is well and there will be no-more problem ?12:26
zetheroowe have smoked peace pipe ... ;)12:26
ikoniaso I'll cut the 48 hours short as I feel the conversation was pretty honest and easy to resolve and I'm confident there won't be any more issues12:26
ikoniagive me 30 seconds to just remove it12:27
zetheroothank you kindly12:27
ikoniaok, the bans removed so if you /part this channel, and join #ubuntu you should be "ok" to go, just keep in mind what we discussed12:27
zetheroook, I think it's working again ..12:28
zetherooI still seem to be banned from ubuntu-server12:29
zetherooikonia: did I do something wrong? :(12:33
ikoniaooh missed that12:35
ikoniasorry, only did ubuntu12:35
ikoniahang on12:35
ikoniathat should work for you now12:38
zetheroogreat - thanks12:43
ikoniano problem12:43
ikoniais there any way to raise this on the ubuntu 14.04 main page that lts -> lts won't happen until 14.04+113:43
ikoniait's not really cricket to not make this clear13:43
DJonesIts certainly being asked quite often13:46
DJones!LTSupgrade is LTS to LTS upgrades are not offered automatically until the .1 release has been issued.  Ubuntu 14.04.1 is due for release on 27th July, and you will only see an option to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 after that date.13:46
ikoniait's something I'd like to know without having to ready 100 pages13:46
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, DJones said: !LTSupgrade is LTS to LTS upgrades are not offered automatically until the .1 release has been issued.  Ubuntu 14.04.1 is due for release on 27th July, and you will only see an option to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 after that date.13:46
DJonesikonia: You do have to dig quite a bit to find anything out like that on the website, I've struggled to find anything13:47
ikoniaconsidering how important it is, I'd like to see it clearly displayed13:48
ikoniais there any way to raise this as a bug to the canonical web team13:48
DJones!LTSupgrade is LTS to LTS upgrades are not offered automatically until the .1 release has been issued.  Ubuntu 14.04.1 is due for release on 24th July, and you will only see an option to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 after that date. See http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/04/17/ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr-released/13:49
ubottuIn #ubuntu-ops, DJones said: !LTSupgrade is LTS to LTS upgrades are not offered automatically until the .1 release has been issued.  Ubuntu 14.04.1 is due for release on 24th July, and you will only see an option to upgrade from 12.04 to 14.04 after that date. See http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2014/04/17/ubuntu-14-04-trusty-tahr-released/13:49
DJonesI think that fridge posting is the only reference I've seen to the delay until the .1 release13:50
DJonesAlso, is there a supported method of upgrading early13:54
PriceyDJones: update-manager -d I believe for varying definitions of "supported"13:55
DJonesPricey: I thought that may be one way, although I'd be wary of it given that the '-d' is development and would suggest that its not a final release13:57
Pricey!ltsupgrade | DJones13:57
* Pricey hides13:57
ikoniawhat happens when 14.10 gets released13:58
ikoniashouldn't -d take it to that or does the lts tag stop that13:58
ikoniagets opened, not released13:58
DJonesikonia: That was what I was thinking13:59
ikoniait should go to 14.10, but I'm not sure if the lts tag override it13:59
phunyguyikonia: it depends on your update-manager settings14:23
phunyguybut at a minimum your upgrade path will be 12.04 -> 14.04, regardless14:23
phunyguy...it's the next step.14:24
ikoniaphunyguy: what restricts it in update-manager ?14:24
k1lthe update manager just goes to the next release.14:24
ikoniathe LTS->LTS setting ?14:24
phunyguyjust like 12.04 -> 13.10, you have to go 12.04 -> 12.10 -> 13.04, etc14:24
ikoniadoes that make it ignore 14.10 ?14:24
ikoniaso until 15.X the next LTS release gets an open repo -d should be safe ?14:25
phunyguydo-release-upgrade -d with you only having lts releases allowed, will not prompt until 16.04 is in dev14:25
ikoniais that confirmed anyewhere as that wasn't how 10.04->12.04 worked14:25
phunyguyI ran into this when I wanted to go 12.04 -> 12.10 back in the day14:25
ikonia-d just went to $next14:25
phunyguysince I only had LTS -> LTS in the settings, even with -d, I never got an upgrade.  I had to change the settings to notify for any release, not just LTS14:26
ikoniaok, so it should be "safe"14:26
phunyguyyes, it should be.14:26
ikoniaI guess it's easy to test when the 14.10 repos get hit14:26
phunyguyyeah, shouldn't be long now14:27
phunyguycould test with 10.04 server14:30
phunyguyfeed it -d, see what it says14:31
ikoniagive it a shot14:31
ikoniaI know it took me to the 10.10 release14:31
ikonia(the last time I tried it)14:31
ikoniagood sport14:32
phunyguyI am going to put money on it bumping to 12.0414:33
ikoniathat would be cool14:33
ikonia...or would it, as 12.04 is not development14:33
phunyguywell there is no dev release for 10.04 upgrade anymore14:34
phunyguyeither way, 12.04 is the next step.14:34
ikoniaexactly, so should it go to 12.0414:34
ikoniaas 12.04 is not dev14:34
phunyguywe will see.14:34
phunyguyif it just complains, then it's still safe14:34
phunyguy9 mins left on download.14:35
phunyguyone of the only places that I have worked at, that has slower internet than I do at home.14:35
phunyguywhat is the difference between -d and -p..?14:37
ikoniaI'd have to read the man page on that14:44
phunyguyit is pretty fun14:44
phunyguyI'll leave this VM at 12.04 after upgrade, so we can test when 14.10 comes out14:45
ikoniawell, I was being a little sarcastic, but I am intersted in knowing it's behaviour14:45
phunyguyerr gets released14:45
phunyguyaahhh 10.04.   This takes me back.  :)14:50
phunyguyrunning a dist-upgrade first14:52
phunyguyikonia: -d still wants to give me 12.0414:57
ikoniaI don't know if that's good or bad15:00
phunyguywell... it's the next step...15:00
ikoniabut should it be....15:00
ikonia(I've not got the man page open)15:01
phunyguyeven when 14.04.1 upgrade path opens, 10.04 would still have to go to 12.04 first15:01
ikoniaI mean -d is the "development" release15:01
ikoniaso should -d take you to a stable branch ?15:02
ikoniaI've not got the man page to check the exact wording on it15:02
Pici"Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible"15:02
ikoniaso from my point of view, -d is wrong15:02
phunyguyprobably... but what is it hurting?15:03
phunyguytechnically there is no dev release for 10.04 upgrade anymore15:03
ikoniait's basically hacking a command and upgrade process15:05
ikoniawhich in my eyes a distro targeting itself as an enterprise distro, shouldn't be doing15:05
phunyguyI don't disagree.... but it still isn't hurting anything.15:05
ikoniaI disagree, it's breaking the command15:06
ikoniaand creates confusion15:06
phunyguyI disagree.  In my eyes, -d means "Check for the latest release, and include $dev_branch in the check"15:07
ikoniathat's not what the man page said as pici quoted15:07
ikoniathe man page is the usage of the command15:07
ikoniaPici: what's the -p ?15:07
funkyHatSo someone should fix the man page15:07
phunyguymaybe the man page needs a reword then15:07
Pici"Try upgrading to the latest release using the upgrader from Ubuntu-proposed"15:07
ikoniafunkyHat: I don't think it's a break in the man page15:07
ikoniait appears to be ubuntu trying to break the funcitonality/work around it15:07
ikoniaor create a new flag15:08
ikoniaupdate-manager -l15:08
ikoniaupdate to new lts release15:08
funkyHatBreak which functionality?15:08
ikoniawhich removes the need for the LTS only/non-lts15:08
ikoniafunkyHat: -d = upgrade to development release15:08
ikoniayou are not upgrading to a development release, you are updating to a stable lts release.15:08
funkyHatBut -d doesn't ever upgrade to a development release unless you're one release behind it anyway, so I think the description is wrong, not the action15:09
ikoniafunkyHat: are you sure ?15:10
phunyguyikonia: do-release-upgrade assumes you already want do upgrade.  adding -d means "check if updating to dev is possible".15:10
phunyguyI think it reads pretty correct.15:10
phunyguyif it is not possible, you would go to stable instead.15:11
ikoniaI don't see it, I guess clarification on the wording would be needed15:11
phunyguyyou are issuing the command.... to upgrade your OS.  adding -d allows it to use the dev release if available.  The man page says exactly that.15:12
ikoniaif possible - so should do nothing if not possible15:13
ikoniait's just not good wording15:14
ikoniaso k1l_ is probably write to clarify it in the man page15:14
ikonia(or docs)15:14
phunyguyI /really/ disagree after reading through this and considering it.15:14
funkyHathttp://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man8/do-release-upgrade.8.html at least this version is quite reaonable15:15
funkyHat"Check if upgrading to the latest devel release is possible" sounds right to me. Perhaps a longer note explaining that it will still try a stable upgrade if one of those is also available would help some people, but I think it's probably fine how it is15:17
phunyguyalso, /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades  <--- specify in that file whether or not to stick with LTS, or any release.15:18
funkyHatI think the assumption regardless of any options you specify is that it's going to do an upgrade, expecting it to give up on an available upgrade because you asked it to try a dev release could be seen as a funny expectation15:18
phunyguyfunkyHat: I agree with that15:19
ikonianot if there isn't a development or one available15:19
ikoniaif you do -p does that work /15:19
ikoniaphunyguy: any chance you could test that15:19
ikoniaas by that logica -p should (hopefully) behave the same15:19
phunyguyI forgot to snapshot the 10.04 install, so I would have to reinstall15:19
phunyguymy faulkt15:19
ikoniadidn't mean to dump install test on you15:19
ikonia-p should check for proposed updates, fail15:20
ikoniaphunyguy: ahh15:20
ikoniaphunyguy: wait, try it from 14.0415:20
phunyguywell I guess I can do that in 12.0415:20
ikoniatry it from 12.0415:20
ikoniaso do-release-update -p should fail, and move to 14.0415:20
phunyguyalready, performing reboot after upgrade15:20
ikoniaas it will check, there is no proposed, and move to 14.04 as the next option15:20
ikoniaphunyguy: it worked ?15:21
ikonia-p found 14.0415:21
phunyguyhang on15:21
phunyguy"No release found" for just -p15:21
ikoniaok so then it's wrong15:21
ikoniait doesn't just move on15:21
ikoniait is -d = development only15:21
ikoniaotherwise it would check for proposed, fail and move on15:21
funkyHatI think -p is to do with upgrading the do-release-upgrade package before doing the upgrade, not about a 'proposed' release15:22
funkyHatSo they aren't really comparable15:22
ikoniathat's not what the man page says15:22
phunyguyyeah I think so too15:22
ikoniacheck for proposed updates15:22
phunyguy"using the upgrader from "ubuntu-proposed"15:22
funkyHatYeah, proposed updates of the current release. There's no such thing as a proposed release15:22
ikoniaso does that mean update to proposed packages before updating to the current stable ?15:22
ikoniaeven so it should then see no proposed updates, fail and move to 14.0415:23
ikoniain the same way no devel updates and move to 14.0415:23
phunyguyit just means check the updates repo for a proposed version of the upgrader15:23
funkyHat*that* option could definitely do with an improved description in the man page15:23
ikoniaphunyguy: ok, it does that, fails, and moves to 14.04....but doesn't move to 14.0415:23
ikonia-d is for development releases only15:23
ikonianot development and then move on15:23
* phunyguy is getting confused15:23
ikoniaor -p would do the same15:23
phunyguythere is no new proposed updater... and it doesn't look like that package has been updated in some time15:24
ikoniaphunyguy: agreed, but then it should check, so no updates and move on to 14.0415:24
funkyHatikonia: actually I still think the way it is now makes most sense. If you're specifying -p it (should) mean you know what you're doing and you think there's an update in -proposed which you're trying to test15:24
ikoniaby the same logic as the -d option15:24
ikoniafunkyHat: -d assumes you should know what you're doing moving to a development release.15:24
funkyHatIf you're specifying -d and you're on 12.04 or 13.10 that means you don't know what you're doing and actually you do want to upgrade to a later release than the one you're on15:25
phunyguyikonia: I didn't spedify -d with that command15:25
ikoniaphunyguy: no you shouldn't15:25
phunyguythey are referring to two different things15:25
ikoniaphunyguy: I was just asking you to check p15:25
ikoniasorry they are not different things15:26
phunyguyoh, sorry, it's just the man page that has been the same since 200915:26
phunyguyikonia: -p refers to the do-release-upgrade tool itself.  Check for a new version of that in ubuntu-proposed.15:26
ikoniaphunyguy: right, then do the upgrade15:26
ikoniaphunyguy: so it checks, doesn't find one, and then should upgrade15:26
ikoniathe same as -d checks for development, doesn't find one and does the upgrade15:27
ikoniafrom what you are saying15:27
phunyguyikonia: there is nothing to upgrade to15:27
phunyguy(with -p)15:27
ikoniaphunyguy: yes there is15:27
phunyguylet me rephrase15:27
phunyguythere is no do-release-upgrade PACKAGE to upgrade.15:27
ikoniaso it should find nothing - move on and carry on15:28
ikoniain the same way -d checks for development, finds nothing, carry on15:28
funkyHatI don't think so, -p is an expert option for people wanting to test a -proposed version of do-release-upgrade, blidnly doing a regular upgrade when there isn't one will just annoy the people using -p15:28
phunyguyI don't udnerstand what you are arguing about....15:28
ikoniafunkyHat: -d is an expert option for people wanting to check for development releases.15:28
ikoniafunkyHat: doing an update to a non-development release when using -d should annoy people too15:29
ikoniait should find no development release and complain15:29
phunyguyikonia: apparently it just annoys you... lol15:29
ikoniaor behave consistantly with other options such as -p15:29
funkyHat-d on the other hand is used by many people, and a much more sensible default is for it to do an available upgrade if there is one. If someone is asking if there's a devel release and they are still on an oldstable release how likely are they to *not* want to upgrade to the current (or newer) stable?15:29
phunyguyikonia: you erally are missing the idea here with the command.15:29
ikoniaphunyguy: I'm not annoyed, I'n just trying to get correct information for people15:29
ikoniaas for years we've told users -d is for development versions15:30
ikoniawe are telling them "it's not, it's for stable releases too"15:30
phunyguywell we have been telling them wrong for years then15:30
ikoniaphunyguy: no, I'm not missing the point, I'm just not trying to dodge a bad implmentation15:30
funkyHatikonia: I think being consistent in this case would hinder, not help, usability15:30
ikoniafunkyHat: being conisstent in ANY case is the correct thing to do15:30
ikoniadevelopming a correct option would be the process15:30
phunyguydo-release-upgrade -d means "upgrade, and allow it to go to the dev release if it is available"15:31
ikoniaphunyguy: -p means upgrade and use the proposed installer if possible15:31
phunyguynot "ONLY go to dev release"15:31
ikoniaphunyguy: however the behaviour is not consistant15:31
ikoniaif it doesn't find a dev release - it carries on15:31
ikoniaif it doesn't find a proposed installer, it stops15:31
phunyguyand if you don't specify -d, it will use the proposed installer if possible, and go to the stable release.15:31
phunyguy(if available)15:32
ikoniaphunyguy: but it stops if it's not available15:32
phunyguywhich is exactly what it is doing.15:32
ikoniawhere as it doesn't stop if -d has no dev release.15:32
ikoniato be honest, I think this is made up15:32
funkyHatikonia: because they are not comparable options15:32
phunyguyikonia: it stops if i DON'T specify -p.15:32
ikoniaI think -d is for dev releases, canonical are putting in a fudge to get around the delay in upgrade15:32
phunyguybecause... there is no release available.15:32
ikoniabut thats just my personal opinion15:32
phunyguyikonia: remember, this is 12.0415:33
phunyguynot 10.0415:33
ikoniaphunyguy: right,15:33
phunyguy...so there is no upgrade for 12.04 yetr without -d15:33
phunyguyregardless of -p15:33
ikoniawhy ?15:33
ikoniawhy do you need -d to upgrade to a stable release15:33
phunyguybecause it's not available until 14.04.115:33
ikoniaphunyguy: I know why15:33
ikoniabut from that man page - why15:33
phunyguybecause that's not what the option means15:33
ikoniano it doesn't15:33
ikoniawhere does it say "upgrade to stable release"15:34
ikoniaif thats the case do-release-upgrade on it's own should work15:34
ikoniadon't need to check for a development release15:34
phunyguy"Upgrade the operating system to the latest release from the command-line", and adding -d means "if the release is still in development, still allow it"15:34
ikoniaphunyguy: right, so without the -d it should still work15:35
phunyguyikonia: in 12.04?15:35
ikoniaphunyguy: as from your explaintion, it checks for development, see's no development release so goes to stable15:35
ikoniait's upgrading to 14.04 stable correct ?15:35
phunyguybecause it's not available yet15:35
ikoniawhat's it upgrading to then ?15:35
phunyguythat's what I have been saying15:35
ikoniawith -d it's doing nothing /15:35
phunyguyyou cannot upgrade to 14.04 yet without the -d option, because it's not a stable upgrade yet15:36
funkyHatLTS-LTS upgrades generally aren't made available straight away, maybe that's why?15:36
ikoniaphunyguy: please - you are making things up15:36
phunyguyyes that is exactly why15:36
ikoniafunkyHat: I know the reason it's blocked15:36
phunyguyikonia: are you serious?15:36
ikoniabut that does not conform to that command15:36
IdleOneWhy is it blocked?15:36
ikoniaphunyguy: is 14.04 a stable or a development release.15:36
ikoniaIdleOne: to allow for stability/patch fixes15:36
ikoniaLTS = stable production15:37
ikoniano-one wants broken upgrades15:37
funkyHatIdleOne: LTS-LTS upgrades are always a few days/weeks after the official release of the new LTS15:37
ikoniawhat is it 4 weeks ?15:37
ikoniaor less15:37
ikonia(I don't remember the date)15:37
funkyHatCan't remember15:37
phunyguyit is 14.04.1 release15:37
hggdhprobably on 14.04.115:37
phunyguyjuly 24th15:37
IdleOneyes I know. What I don't know is what mechanism is making it so apt knows and waits for 14.04.115:37
funkyHatOh ok15:37
phunyguyI have been saying that for 20 minutes now15:37
ikoniaIdleOne: there isn't one15:37
ikoniaso when is 14.04.1 out ? june ?15:37
ikoniait just doesn't work15:38
phunyguyJULY 24TH15:38
IdleOneJuly 2415:38
ikoniaahh so a month or two15:38
hggdhright now you can -d, but this will probably break when we start the U cycle15:38
phunyguyhggdh: no it won't.15:38
ikoniahggdh: not according to phunyguy's test on 10.04 -> 12.0415:38
phunyguythat's where all of this started15:39
ikoniawhich is great, but tagging 14.04 as development is just poor15:39
ikoniaand a dirty work around15:39
phunyguyikonia: that part I agree with.15:39
ikoniathats exactly what I've been saying15:39
ikonia-d should not be taking you to a stable tree15:39
ikoniabecause it's -d development15:40
ikoniaand it's taking you to a stable tree as a work around15:40
phunyguyok, well that's not what the option means15:40
phunyguyit's not black and white15:40
ikoniait is15:40
ikonia14.04 is being tagged as development to work around the 14.04.1 block15:41
hggdhwell, it *was* black and white until this release15:41
ikoniaif it wasn't tagged as development the do-release-upgrade on it's own would work15:41
phunyguyit really isn't.  "Do the upgrade, and allow it to use the dev release"15:41
ikoniaphunyguy: ok, then why is it only working with -d15:41
IdleOneikonia: thing is that when you use -d from 12.04 LTS it takes you to what it considers an unstable tree because the stable tree in LTS upgrades is the .1 release15:41
ikoniaIdleOne: that .1 branch doesn't exist15:41
ikoniait's taking you to the stable repo15:41
ikoniaIdleOne: so it should go no-where15:42
ikoniano development one at all15:42
ikoniawhich means it must be tagged as development15:42
hggdhyes. The meaning of "development" and "stable" has been slightly adjusted15:42
ikonia(from my admittdly limited knowledge of how the repo tagging works)15:42
ikoniamassivly adjusted15:42
IdleOneikonia: somehow when it comes to LTS the upgrade-manager knows that .1 is not yet released and still sees 14.04 as dev15:42
phunyguywasn't 8.04 and 10.04 like this as well?15:42
hggdhikonia: I was just being ironic, sorry15:42
PiciI just did some source-diving, and it looks like the -p and -d options in at least the trusty version of do-release-upgrade do exactly the same thing.15:42
ikoniaIdleOne: yeah, because it's tagged as dev15:42
ikoniaphunyguy: no, when I first did the 10.04->12.04 test it didn't work15:43
ikoniaPici: no no, that's impossible15:43
ikoniaPici: they are different commands15:43
ikonia<sarcasm> sorry15:43
ikoniapoor show15:43
ikonia(from me)15:43
IdleOneok. so as it pertains to LTS upgrades the definition of development has been modified.15:44
phunyguyIdleOne: and that is not new.15:44
ikoniaI don't know when it changed15:44
ikoniamust have been somewhere between 10.04 and 12.04 release.15:44
ikonia(from what phunyguy is saying and showing with his tests)15:44
IdleOneprobably, that I am not sure of.15:45
funkyHatikonia: so you want a new option to upgrade to LTS.0, because you don't like the sound of LTS being considered a devel release just for this purpose? Sounds like consistency really is worse in this case15:45
ikoniafunkyHat: I want consistancy yes15:46
ikoniaI don't see how conistancy is a bad thing at all15:46
funkyHatAt the expense of unnecessary extra command line options?15:46
ikoniagiving consistant solid information to people15:46
ikoniarather than changing15:46
ikoniawell, -d works here, but not here, and here it will break your system15:46
phunyguy"It is generally recommended that users of Ubuntu 10.04 LTS wait until the first point release, due in August, before upgrading."15:46
IdleOneI agree that it can be confusing even for the most experienced users.15:46
ikoniaso 3 different behaviours for -d15:46
phunyguybecause of the recommendation, they made it a -d upgrade until then15:46
phunyguyso they changed it with 12.0415:47
funkyHatikonia: it's called overloading15:47
ikoniafunkyHat: I don't think so15:47
ikoniaI think it's just sloppy15:47
funkyHatSo how would you have people test an LTS-LTS upgrade before 14.04.1 is out?15:47
phunyguyikonia: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop/UbuntuDesktop-12.04#Upgrading_from_Ubuntu_10.04_LTS_to_Ubuntu_12.04_LTS15:47
ikoniafunkyHat: with a correct flag15:48
PiciFTR: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/update-manager/trusty/view/head:/UpdateManager/Core/MetaRelease.py#L10415:48
funkyHatikonia: so like I said, you want an extra option, when -d can't mean anything else in this context anyway?15:48
ikoniafunkyHat: -d has multiple context15:48
ikoniawhich is not consistant15:48
ikoniaso yes, I'd like that consistancy15:48
funkyHatI suppose the same command 2 weeks ago would have gotten you 12.1015:50
phunyguyfunkyHat: wrong15:50
funkyHatOk 6 months and 2 weeks ago :P15:50
phunyguyunless you have update-manager prompting for ANY release vs LTS only15:50
ikoniafunkyHat: thats the odd thing15:50
ikoniafunkyHat: the LTS -> LTS only tag changes it15:50
ikoniafunkyHat: which is why there are multiple context15:51
phunyguyif any release, running without -d will get you 12.1015:51
phunyguybut will that even work anymroe?15:51
ikoniaI don't know as the repos are EOL15:51
phunyguyI assume if you are still on 12.04 and you are prompting for upgrading on any release, you would've upgraded by now :)15:51
ikoniaso if you followed the old process and moved the repos to old-release url then tried it I "assume" it would work15:51
phunyguyikonia: maybe do-release-upgrade is smart enough to do that15:52
phunyguy....then again, maybe not15:52
ikonianah, it's not15:52
ikoniaand I don't think thats a bad thing15:52
phunyguyno it's not15:52
phunyguylike I said, if you wanted the bleeding edge, and were prompting for any new realease, you wouldn't still be on 12.0415:52
IdleOneupgrade-manager won't take you to an EOL release because those repos are closed and it can't access them15:53
phunyguylet me test!15:53
phunyguyI have 12.04 right here15:53
ikoniaIdleOne: even on old-releases15:53
ikoniaIdleOne: can't point it at old-release and do it ?15:53
IdleOneunless you do some editing and change your sources to old-release15:53
ikoniayeah, that's the old release process15:53
IdleOneikonia: yeah, but that is not a reg user process nor is it meant to be.15:53
ikoniano, it's for people who forgot to maintain a stable system15:54
phunyguyit's trying....15:54
phunyguymaybe they havent moved the repo yet15:54
ikoniato be honest, I don't care personally15:54
ikoniaI'm quite capable of managing my own system15:55
ikoniaI was just trying to get something solid that we could give to users15:55
ikoniabut it's not sweat of my back if it stays how it is15:55
phunyguyso let's see about 13.04 after this, because that expired in Jan, right?15:55
IdleOnesomething like that15:55
phunyguyikonia: I think we should stick with what we know, and that is, if you want 14.04 from 12.04, you have to wait until 14.04.1... and adding the -d option in a how-to will not hurt anything after 14.1015:56
ikoniaphunyguy: seems to be confusing a lot of people, I don't think it's "what we know", but as I said, I don't personally care15:56
phunyguyit is confusing... right now, but I think give it a couple more weeks to sink in, and it will be OK.15:57
ikoniait didn't sink in from 10.04/12.0415:57
ikoniaso years later it's still confusing15:57
phunyguyI just don't think it gets talked about often15:57
ikoniaand not clear on the ubuntu.com website15:57
phunyguyonce every 2 years is not often at all.15:57
phunyguyit is clear if you read the release notes. :)15:57
ikoniahome users are not reading release notes15:57
ikoniahome users are reading the ubuntu.com website and trying to upgrade15:58
phunyguyyes but us giving support... should be.15:58
ikoniaphunyguy: exactly why consistancy is important to me15:58
phunyguyright, but some change can be good.  Could you imagine if everyone was prompted for an upgrade right when 14.04 was released?16:00
phunyguythat would get ugly fast16:01
ikoniaphunyguy: no different than everyone downloading the install CD16:01
phunyguyikonia: yes but when they are prompted.....  I imagine only a small number comparitively speaking lined up for the ISO16:01
ikoniaphunyguy: did you not see #ubuntu and release-party ?16:01
phunyguythen as folks want to upgrade with the -d option, they can, and finally in July, everyone taht is left will get the prompt to upgrade.16:01
ikoniapeople where gagging to download it16:01
ikoniaand people using -d to upgrade is no different in load than people not using it16:02
phunyguyikonia: I did.  But there are more than 2000 ubuntu users16:02
ikoniawith so many people asking "how do I do it"16:02
phunyguyWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more16:02
phunyguyand those folks that wanted it now now now, don't give a rats about LTS16:02
ikoniaof course they do16:03
ikoniathey are regular home users who have waited X years to get an update of any substance16:03
phunyguyif they did, they would wait to upgrade16:03
ikoniathats why they are on 12.04 still16:03
phunyguy...like me16:03
phunyguyI am globally still on 12.0416:03
ikoniano, they are home users who want a stable upgrade16:03
ikoniathey don't understand why it's being held back16:04
ikoniamore so as there is very little from canonical16:04
phunyguyand so we tell them why.16:04
ikoniawouldn't it be easier to just make a clear notification16:04
ikoniarather than having to contact each person having a problem16:04
ikoniaor have a stable consistant upgrade behaviour/path16:05
ikoniarather than having to contact each user having the problem16:05
phunyguywell that I can agree with... but at the same time, that's why I created that factoid.16:05
ikoniait even says on ubuntu.com upgrade to 14.04 now16:05
ikoniait suggests the 14.04 update should be available now16:06
phunyguywell can't you, by downloading and booting the CD?16:06
ikoniaI don't know if the cd upgrade works any more16:06
phunyguy13.10 -> 14.04 on that page16:06
ikoniabut surly having a page that says "upgrade available now" then holding it back for 2 months seems a bit off16:06
phunyguywith a link to update notes16:06
IdleOneWhen has anonical ever been consistent on the website about anything16:06
ikoniaoops yes16:06
phunyguyIf you have a version of Ubuntu other than Ubuntu 14.04 LTS, please read the upgrade notes for more information on how to upgrade.16:06
ikoniaIdleOne: perhaps they should be.....16:07
ikoniadidn't read it16:07
IdleOneikonia: I agree16:07
ikoniawhich is what I'm asking for16:07
ikoniaconsistant command behaviour16:07
ikoniaconsistant updates/notifications16:07
phunyguyinteresting, I bumped up to 12.10 on that test VM, and now it is prompting me to install 13.10 directly.16:23
phunyguythat's a first16:23
phunyguymaybe that came with the 9 month vs 18 month support schedule...16:23
ikoniaphunyguy: did it change your sources.list away from old-releases16:24
phunyguyikonia: I didn't look16:24
phunyguybut it seems to be skipping 13.04 altogether16:24
ikoniacould you take a look before you upgrade any more16:24
ikoniaphunyguy: what command did you issue in the update ?16:24
phunyguydeb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ quantal main restricted16:25
ikoniaso away from the old-releases url16:25
ikoniaand that was with/without -d ?16:26
phunyguythat was without, and it prompting for normal releases to go to 12.1016:26
ikoniaphunyguy: so you changed the sources.list to old-releases, disabled lts only and do do-release-upgrade16:26
phunyguyI didn't change the sources16:26
ikoniaand it took you from 12.04->12.10->13.10 ?16:26
ikoniaoh, so it picked up 12.10 without changing the sources,16:27
phunyguyI just went from 12.04 -> 12.1016:27
ikoniaare the 12.10 repos not in the archive yet ?16:27
phunyguyI guess not16:27
ikoniano they are not16:27
ikoniaso that's why it's doing it16:27
ikoniaand why it's jumped to 13.1016:28
Picithe meta-release file still contains all the historical releases16:28
ikoniaPici: so it will check old-releases too now ?16:28
phunyguyI wonder what will happen when they do... I am willing to bet either it will a.) break, or b.) take me straight to 13.10.16:28
phunyguyunless they are waiting until July 24th to move 12.1016:28
ikoniaseems reasonable to give days grace16:29
IdleOnewhich makes no sense16:29
ikoniarather than just kill it16:29
ikoniagive people chance to get off it16:29
ikoniaPici: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Release16:30
ikoniaworthless links in that meta data16:30
Piciikonia: there is a supported:0 tag on that16:30
phunyguyikonia: indeed.  But why 12.10 straight to 13.10?16:30
ikoniaahh so it's only what's marked as supported16:30
phunyguyin the past there was a 13.04 step16:30
ikoniaphunyguy: latest release16:30
phunyguyright but when 13.10 was released, I still had to go to 13.04 first16:31
phunyguyI tested it then16:31
ikoniaphunyguy: pici's meta data explains that16:31
phunyguyoh ok16:31
ikoniaDist: raring16:31
ikoniaSupported: 016:31
ikoniaDist: saucy16:31
ikoniaSupported: 116:31
phunyguyso it goes to the next supported16:32
phunyguythat makes sense16:32
ikoniaPici: can't see where the actual pacakge location url is held in there, it's not in the .tar.gz16:32
ikoniaahh it's not16:32
ikoniathat's why it breaks16:32
ikonia12.10 is still marked as supported, that's how it found it on the main servers16:32
ikoniasorry - my missunderstanding16:33
ikoniaonce it's marked as 0 it's dead unless you manually change the sources.list16:33
phunyguyyou mean the release youa re currently on?16:33
Piciright, but you don't get any extra fixes that might come throguh the updgrade tool16:33
ikoniano, of course not as that distro is dead16:33
phunyguyso if I am still on quantal, and it gets changed to 0... I'm boned until I change sources manually...16:34
IdleOneso ubuntu now supports leap frogging versions?16:34
ikoniaIdleOne: I'm sure it's done that before16:34
phunyguyIdleOne: raring is not supported, but quantal was until VERy recently16:34
PiciI wouldn't say it supports it, but it might do it.16:34
ikoniawasn't 8.04->9.04 possible ?16:34
ikoniaor 8.10 9.10 ?16:34
phunyguy\raring lost support after 9 months only16:34
PiciThat sounds vaugely familiar.16:34
phunyguyso there is no choice but to leapfrog here16:34
ikoniaphunyguy: well, you could change the sources.list16:35
IdleOneyeah you could do that but it would normally break everything16:35
ikoniaas the "oid-release" process16:35
phunyguyI could, to point to old-releases...16:35
phunyguythis is good info16:35
ikoniaI guess its up to users to keep up to date16:35
ikoniait's good 12.10 is staying open to give people chance to get off it16:35
IdleOnegetting too old to keep up with all these crazy changes in behaviour16:35
ikonialosing interest16:35
ikoniarather than too old16:36
ikoniait's spin the wheel of functionality16:36
IdleOneI'll admit I have lost interest in keeping up with it all16:36
phunyguyI don't think I ever kept up with that until recently.16:37
phunyguyand my shirt smells.  I really need to get a new one over lunch.16:37
phunyguy(cat decided to pee on it last night without me realizing)16:37
IdleOnethe joy of owning a cat16:38
phunyguythe cat is going to go out the window16:38
IdleOneIn ancient Egypt cats were worshipped as gods and they have not forgotten it.16:43
* genii kicks his cat off the counter16:57
hggdhmy dog does not pee on my clothes. Just a comment...17:04
DJonesphunyguy: 12.10 to 13.10 or 14.04 is the way the upgrade was planned to work, the fridge posting says that 12.10 users will be offered either of those to upgrade to17:13
ubottuIn ubottu, DJones said: !utopic is Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) is the next development release of Ubuntu due for release in October 2014.  Support in #ubuntu+1 until it is released.  See http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/1363 for details17:33
ubottuUbuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) will be the 21st release of Ubuntu.  For more info, see announcement at http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/136317:34
IdleOnewell that is disappointing17:34
DJonesThat factoid didn't exist 5 minutes ago17:34
popey17:34:06 <+IdleOne> so ubuntu now supports leap frogging versions?17:35
IdleOnePici is a wizard17:35
* DJones waits for IdleOne to /nick utopic17:35
popeyyeah, expected that some minutes ago17:35
PiciI started putting it together when I saw popey's tweet.17:35
phunyguyI suggested Unicorn last week in IRC, not saying they even heard me say it, but it's neat that they ended up picking that name.17:44
geniiHow could a "U" release *NOT* be a unicorn?? ;)18:19
geniiAlthough I would have like Ultra and not Utopic ....18:19
IdleOneWhen did 40 become middle aged?18:23
IdleOneI'm not middle aged :(18:23
genii14.10 will also mark the 10th anniversary of Ubuntu18:24
hggdhIdleOne: you *feel* not being middle-aged. OTOH, if you are middle-aged, then I am a senior18:24
hggdhwhich really sucks18:25
IdleOnehggdh: exactly. It feel it sucks and I'm going to be 40. I can imagine how bad you feel18:25
hggdhwell, I am around 25 (mentally). Pity the body does not agree with that18:26
IdleOneI hear you18:27
DJonesIdleOne: Middle age doesn't start until at least 5519:13
IdleOnethank you.19:13
IdleOneI feel a little better now19:13
IdleOneI was flipping through the channels on tv and came across a movie called This is 40. The description says "A middle aged couple blah blah blah..."19:14
DJonesMy parents are in their mid 70's, they go to the gym & pool about 5 times a week, dad for exercise & mum to ogle the rugby team with the rest of the 70+ year old women19:15
IdleOneCan't blame her :)19:15
DJonesHeh, just hope my dad doesn't try & keep up with the players in training19:16
DJonesI get to hit 48 in August, my body & mind still feels like its in its early 30's, I guess thats what happens when your wife is 15 years younger, helps keep me feeling younger19:17
k1l_damn, my girlfriend is 3 years older than me. seems i made the wrong deal :(19:18
* genii whistles innocently and stares at Unit19319:22
k1l_genii: is 193 his age?19:23
* Unit193 whistles.19:25
geniik1l_: No idea :) But in another channel he was remarking that IdleOne would not be pleased since a user there got the nick UtopicUnicorn, and then I made a smart aleck remark19:26
Jordan_UReminds me of a great shirt one of my friends likes to wear, it says "In dog years, I'm dead".19:27
rwwhah, the Status for Utopic in Launchpad is "Pre-release Freeze" #launchpadlies19:56
ubottuIn ubottu, zykotick9 said: forgetmypassword22:37
k1l_unopaste works as expected with the badwords. good job23:06
rwwholy scrollback batman23:43

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